Education and Advanced Care Paramedic

[Guest guest]

Hi Folks. Just thought I'd share a little on this subject.

I'm all for education. With the increase in the paramedic course, an

associate degree wouldn't be that big a leap. If we instituted that,

maybe we could get a little more respect from some folks (and yes,

I've always been a dreamer). That would put us more on a par with

RNs anyway.

On the subject of the Advanced Care Paramedic, I think I know

where that little thing came from. Somebody looked at what some

countries are doing overseas and thought it sounded like a good

idea. They just didn't think it through. The countries that have a

degreed program for Advanced Care Paramedics do NOT have PAs. That

particular slot is filled by the Advanced Care Paramedic. For

example, most the clinics in the outback of Australia are run my

these Paramedics. They perform the same function as PAs do here.

diagnosing, prescribing, suturing, etc. It seems like that's what

the NSOP is trying to do here too.

Having said this, it's time for the big question. Are the powers

that be planning to scrap the PA program and go with degreed

Paramedics? OR, are they planning to do like some ERs do and staff

with Paramedics at lower pay to save the big bucks for " mainstream "

medical personnel? They claim its because of a shortage of nurses,

but they don't pay us any more than we make on the truck, and in

some cases less.

On the subject of EMS pay, I don't really know where the money is

going to come from to pay us more than we are getting. We DO need

better pay as an incintive to draw more people. Medicare/Medicaid

pay 30-35% of what's billed, and we have to accept that or else. It

takes forever to get it with all the denials and appeals you have to

go through too. All the major insurance companies take their cues

from the government and are paying a smaller percentage too.

I work for Ft Stockton EMS and its a combined service, paid with

volunteer back up. We have a fairly decent pay scale and benefits,

better than a lot of services I know of. However, our tax base isnt

that high, and the city and county have a hard time funding the

service with the low return. We get a lot of unnecessary runs that

never get paid for because there isnt a real need for an ambulance.

That's the rub, the government says we have to haul them if they

call, and then says they wont pay because they didn't need an

ambulance. What can we do? Triage on scene and deny transport? I,

for one, don't don't want to be put in that position. Way too much

liability there. thank you very much.

I don't have the answers, just wanted to share my thoughts and see

what other thoughts some of you have.

Joe Tollett

EMT-P

Ft Stockton EMS

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I see a lot of guess work, speculation, and prognostication on a subject that is

in its infancy. This is just the first draft of the Scope of Practice. There

will be others. Our best bet at this time is to do all we can to make the final

product one that we all can live with. What happens at other levels of medical

practice is out of our hands. Lets just try to make practice the best it can

be, and join together with others to get that job done. Send your thoughts and

comments to GETAC or direct to the authors of the SOP.

Just my thoughts.

, EMT-P retired

Board Member EMSAT

joetemt_p wrote:

Hi Folks. Just thought I'd share a little on this subject.

I'm all for education. With the increase in the paramedic course, an

associate degree wouldn't be that big a leap. If we instituted that,

maybe we could get a little more respect from some folks (and yes,

I've always been a dreamer). That would put us more on a par with

RNs anyway.

On the subject of the Advanced Care Paramedic, I think I know

where that little thing came from. Somebody looked at what some

countries are doing overseas and thought it sounded like a good

idea. They just didn't think it through. The countries that have a

degreed program for Advanced Care Paramedics do NOT have PAs. That

particular slot is filled by the Advanced Care Paramedic. For

example, most the clinics in the outback of Australia are run my

these Paramedics. They perform the same function as PAs do here.

diagnosing, prescribing, suturing, etc. It seems like that's what

the NSOP is trying to do here too.

Having said this, it's time for the big question. Are the powers

that be planning to scrap the PA program and go with degreed

Paramedics? OR, are they planning to do like some ERs do and staff

with Paramedics at lower pay to save the big bucks for " mainstream "

medical personnel? They claim its because of a shortage of nurses,

but they don't pay us any more than we make on the truck, and in

some cases less.

On the subject of EMS pay, I don't really know where the money is

going to come from to pay us more than we are getting. We DO need

better pay as an incintive to draw more people. Medicare/Medicaid

pay 30-35% of what's billed, and we have to accept that or else. It

takes forever to get it with all the denials and appeals you have to

go through too. All the major insurance companies take their cues

from the government and are paying a smaller percentage too.

I work for Ft Stockton EMS and its a combined service, paid with

volunteer back up. We have a fairly decent pay scale and benefits,

better than a lot of services I know of. However, our tax base isnt

that high, and the city and county have a hard time funding the

service with the low return. We get a lot of unnecessary runs that

never get paid for because there isnt a real need for an ambulance.

That's the rub, the government says we have to haul them if they

call, and then says they wont pay because they didn't need an

ambulance. What can we do? Triage on scene and deny transport? I,

for one, don't don't want to be put in that position. Way too much

liability there. thank you very much.

I don't have the answers, just wanted to share my thoughts and see

what other thoughts some of you have.

Joe Tollett

EMT-P

Ft Stockton EMS

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I see a lot of guess work, speculation, and prognostication on a subject that is

in its infancy. This is just the first draft of the Scope of Practice. There

will be others. Our best bet at this time is to do all we can to make the final

product one that we all can live with. What happens at other levels of medical

practice is out of our hands. Lets just try to make practice the best it can

be, and join together with others to get that job done. Send your thoughts and

comments to GETAC or direct to the authors of the SOP.

Just my thoughts.

, EMT-P retired

Board Member EMSAT

joetemt_p wrote:

Hi Folks. Just thought I'd share a little on this subject.

I'm all for education. With the increase in the paramedic course, an

associate degree wouldn't be that big a leap. If we instituted that,

maybe we could get a little more respect from some folks (and yes,

I've always been a dreamer). That would put us more on a par with

RNs anyway.

On the subject of the Advanced Care Paramedic, I think I know

where that little thing came from. Somebody looked at what some

countries are doing overseas and thought it sounded like a good

idea. They just didn't think it through. The countries that have a

degreed program for Advanced Care Paramedics do NOT have PAs. That

particular slot is filled by the Advanced Care Paramedic. For

example, most the clinics in the outback of Australia are run my

these Paramedics. They perform the same function as PAs do here.

diagnosing, prescribing, suturing, etc. It seems like that's what

the NSOP is trying to do here too.

Having said this, it's time for the big question. Are the powers

that be planning to scrap the PA program and go with degreed

Paramedics? OR, are they planning to do like some ERs do and staff

with Paramedics at lower pay to save the big bucks for " mainstream "

medical personnel? They claim its because of a shortage of nurses,

but they don't pay us any more than we make on the truck, and in

some cases less.

On the subject of EMS pay, I don't really know where the money is

going to come from to pay us more than we are getting. We DO need

better pay as an incintive to draw more people. Medicare/Medicaid

pay 30-35% of what's billed, and we have to accept that or else. It

takes forever to get it with all the denials and appeals you have to

go through too. All the major insurance companies take their cues

from the government and are paying a smaller percentage too.

I work for Ft Stockton EMS and its a combined service, paid with

volunteer back up. We have a fairly decent pay scale and benefits,

better than a lot of services I know of. However, our tax base isnt

that high, and the city and county have a hard time funding the

service with the low return. We get a lot of unnecessary runs that

never get paid for because there isnt a real need for an ambulance.

That's the rub, the government says we have to haul them if they

call, and then says they wont pay because they didn't need an

ambulance. What can we do? Triage on scene and deny transport? I,

for one, don't don't want to be put in that position. Way too much

liability there. thank you very much.

I don't have the answers, just wanted to share my thoughts and see

what other thoughts some of you have.

Joe Tollett

EMT-P

Ft Stockton EMS

[Guest guest]

Joe,

I see a lot of guess work, speculation, and prognostication on a subject that is

in its infancy. This is just the first draft of the Scope of Practice. There

will be others. Our best bet at this time is to do all we can to make the final

product one that we all can live with. What happens at other levels of medical

practice is out of our hands. Lets just try to make practice the best it can

be, and join together with others to get that job done. Send your thoughts and

comments to GETAC or direct to the authors of the SOP.

Just my thoughts.

, EMT-P retired

Board Member EMSAT

joetemt_p wrote:

Hi Folks. Just thought I'd share a little on this subject.

I'm all for education. With the increase in the paramedic course, an

associate degree wouldn't be that big a leap. If we instituted that,

maybe we could get a little more respect from some folks (and yes,

I've always been a dreamer). That would put us more on a par with

RNs anyway.

On the subject of the Advanced Care Paramedic, I think I know

where that little thing came from. Somebody looked at what some

countries are doing overseas and thought it sounded like a good

idea. They just didn't think it through. The countries that have a

degreed program for Advanced Care Paramedics do NOT have PAs. That

particular slot is filled by the Advanced Care Paramedic. For

example, most the clinics in the outback of Australia are run my

these Paramedics. They perform the same function as PAs do here.

diagnosing, prescribing, suturing, etc. It seems like that's what

the NSOP is trying to do here too.

Having said this, it's time for the big question. Are the powers

that be planning to scrap the PA program and go with degreed

Paramedics? OR, are they planning to do like some ERs do and staff

with Paramedics at lower pay to save the big bucks for " mainstream "

medical personnel? They claim its because of a shortage of nurses,

but they don't pay us any more than we make on the truck, and in

some cases less.

On the subject of EMS pay, I don't really know where the money is

going to come from to pay us more than we are getting. We DO need

better pay as an incintive to draw more people. Medicare/Medicaid

pay 30-35% of what's billed, and we have to accept that or else. It

takes forever to get it with all the denials and appeals you have to

go through too. All the major insurance companies take their cues

from the government and are paying a smaller percentage too.

I work for Ft Stockton EMS and its a combined service, paid with

volunteer back up. We have a fairly decent pay scale and benefits,

better than a lot of services I know of. However, our tax base isnt

that high, and the city and county have a hard time funding the

service with the low return. We get a lot of unnecessary runs that

never get paid for because there isnt a real need for an ambulance.

That's the rub, the government says we have to haul them if they

call, and then says they wont pay because they didn't need an

ambulance. What can we do? Triage on scene and deny transport? I,

for one, don't don't want to be put in that position. Way too much

liability there. thank you very much.

I don't have the answers, just wanted to share my thoughts and see

what other thoughts some of you have.

Joe Tollett

EMT-P

Ft Stockton EMS