Re: New and looking for help with Graves/Hashimoto's

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you because I

just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell of a

roller coaster ride this past year!

Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this and you

can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to you on

this.

You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search on her.

She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both from

Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at B and

N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a member of

this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what is it?

Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having problems

with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of symptoms

for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list put

together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us. Not

everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are possible with

GD.

When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my first

endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic menopause and

that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading, keep

asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a real trip

on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it has to

have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have had this

past year.

Take care and again, welcome,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you because I

just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell of a

roller coaster ride this past year!

Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this and you

can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to you on

this.

You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search on her.

She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both from

Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at B and

N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a member of

this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what is it?

Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having problems

with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of symptoms

for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list put

together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us. Not

everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are possible with

GD.

When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my first

endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic menopause and

that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading, keep

asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a real trip

on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it has to

have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have had this

past year.

Take care and again, welcome,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you because I

just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell of a

roller coaster ride this past year!

Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this and you

can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to you on

this.

You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search on her.

She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both from

Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at B and

N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a member of

this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what is it?

Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having problems

with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of symptoms

for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list put

together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us. Not

everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are possible with

GD.

When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my first

endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic menopause and

that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading, keep

asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a real trip

on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it has to

have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have had this

past year.

Take care and again, welcome,

Jody

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a miscarriage (and

D & C) after 3 years of trying.

To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or above. If

your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be used as a

gauge.

Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never helped me

to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost 30. I

wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility drugs and

had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to conceive

since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov. My ovarian

reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is (I also

have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes sense

that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which, in turn,

probably affects any hormones that they might make.

An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It has

helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about ovarian

reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test you again

on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They use it to

determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances of

becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though, fertility drops

at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40. There are

many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as you can

attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you should see a

reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we had a

clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in infertility. He

has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry since he

doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and infertility. At

this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going to L.A.

or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none when we

go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks ago, I

have a little time to decide.

I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and everybody having

different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the medical

field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try to decide,

I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the time they

figure it out, I'll be too old.

Take care,

> I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between my

> silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive non

> hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is going

> right in my life. Things could be worse.

>

> Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health problems.

> First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to not

> have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll use

> dates:

>

> 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

>

> 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

>

> Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had been

> as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> thought this was odd but didn't question it.

>

> Numbers:

>

> TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 - 5.50)

> FSH climbed to 23

>

> Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my body

> screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later you'll

> see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go up.

>

> I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their 40's

> rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing " from

> the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my daughter

> a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she had

> breathing problems during labor.

>

> I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods and

> no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2 with

> no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to aovid

> being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're following

> them with age.

>

> Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

>

> Anyway, I'll continue ->

>

> 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and allowed

> GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The TSH

> remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> Results:

>

> TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

>

> 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused by

> the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes because

> of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> you'd know when they occur.

>

> He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more pressing

> issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

>

> Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

>

> Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told her

> about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I should

> go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who did

> an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless. Next I

> allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their bloodwork.

>

> 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

>

> Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

>

> Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular cycle "

> and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> different?

>

> T3 uptake 37%

> T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

>

> 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

>

> TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

>

> This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as an

> MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely lethargic

> and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what labor

> pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

>

> 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't had

> a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to follow -

> menopause time.

>

> Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

>

> 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have no

> idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to the

> miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly removal.

>

> 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland since I

> had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary gland

> was normal but there were lesions in the white matter - specifically

> in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally lock

> up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the possibility

> of M.S..

>

> 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

>

> TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

>

> 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For example

> my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become to

> lengthy.

>

> 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands but

> not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is and

> I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

>

>

> 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of july

> and August. Results:

>

> FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

>

> Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not pregnant,

> which is one in or both?

>

> Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

>

> Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I have

> to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

>

> 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

>

> 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to conceive

> again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about drifting

> into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want that -

> so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put me

> on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like mud. I

> was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors were

> diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

>

> 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

>

> TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

>

> I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff with

> FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three weeks

> of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run down

> attributes as before.

>

> I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I had

> graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't make a

> difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't talked to

> someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or results to

> be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so what

> are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who can?

>

> What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be done

> about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me as

> a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the thyroid?

> I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my thyroid

> can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> wonder about medical professionals.

>

> I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> what dosages?

>

> ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no matter

> how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> will I still have a chance to conceive?

>

> I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll answer

> them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos. I'm

> so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to anyone

> who responds.

>

> I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my daughter

> (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be trained

> soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming very

> pessimistic.

>

> Best Regards,

>

>

>

> All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little faith

> in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a miscarriage (and

D & C) after 3 years of trying.

To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or above. If

your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be used as a

gauge.

Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never helped me

to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost 30. I

wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility drugs and

had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to conceive

since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov. My ovarian

reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is (I also

have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes sense

that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which, in turn,

probably affects any hormones that they might make.

An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It has

helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about ovarian

reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test you again

on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They use it to

determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances of

becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though, fertility drops

at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40. There are

many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as you can

attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you should see a

reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we had a

clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in infertility. He

has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry since he

doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and infertility. At

this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going to L.A.

or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none when we

go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks ago, I

have a little time to decide.

I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and everybody having

different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the medical

field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try to decide,

I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the time they

figure it out, I'll be too old.

Take care,

> I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between my

> silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive non

> hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is going

> right in my life. Things could be worse.

>

> Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health problems.

> First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to not

> have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll use

> dates:

>

> 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

>

> 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

>

> Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had been

> as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> thought this was odd but didn't question it.

>

> Numbers:

>

> TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 - 5.50)

> FSH climbed to 23

>

> Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my body

> screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later you'll

> see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go up.

>

> I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their 40's

> rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing " from

> the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my daughter

> a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she had

> breathing problems during labor.

>

> I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods and

> no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2 with

> no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to aovid

> being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're following

> them with age.

>

> Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

>

> Anyway, I'll continue ->

>

> 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and allowed

> GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The TSH

> remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> Results:

>

> TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

>

> 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused by

> the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes because

> of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> you'd know when they occur.

>

> He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more pressing

> issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

>

> Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

>

> Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told her

> about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I should

> go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who did

> an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless. Next I

> allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their bloodwork.

>

> 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

>

> Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

>

> Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular cycle "

> and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> different?

>

> T3 uptake 37%

> T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

>

> 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

>

> TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

>

> This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as an

> MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely lethargic

> and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what labor

> pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

>

> 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't had

> a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to follow -

> menopause time.

>

> Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

>

> 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have no

> idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to the

> miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly removal.

>

> 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland since I

> had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary gland

> was normal but there were lesions in the white matter - specifically

> in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally lock

> up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the possibility

> of M.S..

>

> 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

>

> TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

>

> 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For example

> my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become to

> lengthy.

>

> 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands but

> not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is and

> I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

>

>

> 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of july

> and August. Results:

>

> FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

>

> Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not pregnant,

> which is one in or both?

>

> Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

>

> Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I have

> to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

>

> 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

>

> 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to conceive

> again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about drifting

> into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want that -

> so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put me

> on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like mud. I

> was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors were

> diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

>

> 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

>

> TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

>

> I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff with

> FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three weeks

> of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run down

> attributes as before.

>

> I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I had

> graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't make a

> difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't talked to

> someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or results to

> be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so what

> are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who can?

>

> What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be done

> about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me as

> a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the thyroid?

> I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my thyroid

> can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> wonder about medical professionals.

>

> I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> what dosages?

>

> ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no matter

> how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> will I still have a chance to conceive?

>

> I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll answer

> them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos. I'm

> so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to anyone

> who responds.

>

> I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my daughter

> (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be trained

> soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming very

> pessimistic.

>

> Best Regards,

>

>

>

> All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little faith

> in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a miscarriage (and

D & C) after 3 years of trying.

To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or above. If

your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be used as a

gauge.

Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never helped me

to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost 30. I

wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility drugs and

had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to conceive

since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov. My ovarian

reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is (I also

have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes sense

that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which, in turn,

probably affects any hormones that they might make.

An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It has

helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about ovarian

reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test you again

on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They use it to

determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances of

becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though, fertility drops

at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40. There are

many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as you can

attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you should see a

reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we had a

clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in infertility. He

has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry since he

doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and infertility. At

this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going to L.A.

or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none when we

go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks ago, I

have a little time to decide.

I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and everybody having

different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the medical

field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try to decide,

I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the time they

figure it out, I'll be too old.

Take care,

> I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between my

> silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive non

> hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is going

> right in my life. Things could be worse.

>

> Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health problems.

> First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to not

> have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll use

> dates:

>

> 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

>

> 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

>

> Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had been

> as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> thought this was odd but didn't question it.

>

> Numbers:

>

> TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 - 5.50)

> FSH climbed to 23

>

> Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my body

> screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later you'll

> see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go up.

>

> I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their 40's

> rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing " from

> the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my daughter

> a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she had

> breathing problems during labor.

>

> I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods and

> no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2 with

> no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to aovid

> being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're following

> them with age.

>

> Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

>

> Anyway, I'll continue ->

>

> 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and allowed

> GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The TSH

> remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> Results:

>

> TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

>

> 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused by

> the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes because

> of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> you'd know when they occur.

>

> He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more pressing

> issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

>

> Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

>

> Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told her

> about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I should

> go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who did

> an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless. Next I

> allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their bloodwork.

>

> 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

>

> Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

>

> Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular cycle "

> and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> different?

>

> T3 uptake 37%

> T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

>

> 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

>

> TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

>

> This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as an

> MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely lethargic

> and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what labor

> pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

>

> 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't had

> a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to follow -

> menopause time.

>

> Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

>

> 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have no

> idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to the

> miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly removal.

>

> 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland since I

> had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary gland

> was normal but there were lesions in the white matter - specifically

> in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally lock

> up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the possibility

> of M.S..

>

> 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

>

> TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

>

> 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For example

> my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become to

> lengthy.

>

> 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands but

> not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is and

> I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

>

>

> 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of july

> and August. Results:

>

> FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

>

> Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not pregnant,

> which is one in or both?

>

> Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

>

> Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I have

> to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

>

> 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

>

> 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to conceive

> again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about drifting

> into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want that -

> so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put me

> on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like mud. I

> was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors were

> diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

>

> 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

>

> TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

>

> I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff with

> FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three weeks

> of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run down

> attributes as before.

>

> I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I had

> graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't make a

> difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't talked to

> someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or results to

> be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so what

> are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who can?

>

> What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be done

> about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me as

> a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the thyroid?

> I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my thyroid

> can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> wonder about medical professionals.

>

> I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> what dosages?

>

> ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no matter

> how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> will I still have a chance to conceive?

>

> I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll answer

> them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos. I'm

> so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to anyone

> who responds.

>

> I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my daughter

> (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be trained

> soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming very

> pessimistic.

>

> Best Regards,

>

>

>

> All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little faith

> in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group. As mentioned, reproductive hormones vary

considerably at different times in your menstrual cycle. I'll list some of

the ranges commonly used for these tests so you can see how levels can vary.

Also, there are some accounts that people with Graves' disease run low

progesterone levels so you might want to ask your doctor about that. While

levels aren't listed for peri-menopause, levels of progesterone are often low

during perimenopause.

The ranges for vitamin B12 and folate are based on people eating a normal

diet. When we take multivitamins or B complex, the B12 level usually runs

much higher than the normal range.

In a message dated 12/3/01 1:04:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,

nmh@... writes:

> Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> TSH .01

Reference ranges for reproductive hormones:

Estradiol Females in pg/ml

Early follicular phase = 20-150

Late follicular phase= 40-350

Midcycle Peak= 150-750

Luteal phase = 30-450

Postmenopausal= less than or equal to 20

FSH in IU/L

Follicular phase= 2.5-10.2

Mid-Cycle= 3.1-17.7

Luteal phase= 1.5-9.1

Postmenopausal= 23.0-116.3

Males= 1.6-8.0

Luteinizing Hormone (LH) in IU/L

Follicular Phase= 1.9-12.5

Mid-Cycle= 8.7-76.3

Luteal phase= 0.5-16.9

Postmenopausal= 5.0-52.3

Males= 1.5-9.3

Progesterone in ng/dL

Females

Follicular= less than or equal to 50

Luteal=300-2500

Postmenopausal= less than or equal to 40

Children=less than or equal to 20

Males= 10-50

TSH is normally 0.4-4.5 mU/L with ranges varying depending on units of

measurement and test methodologies. TSH is low (suppressed) in

hyperthyroidism.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group. As mentioned, reproductive hormones vary

considerably at different times in your menstrual cycle. I'll list some of

the ranges commonly used for these tests so you can see how levels can vary.

Also, there are some accounts that people with Graves' disease run low

progesterone levels so you might want to ask your doctor about that. While

levels aren't listed for peri-menopause, levels of progesterone are often low

during perimenopause.

The ranges for vitamin B12 and folate are based on people eating a normal

diet. When we take multivitamins or B complex, the B12 level usually runs

much higher than the normal range.

In a message dated 12/3/01 1:04:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,

nmh@... writes:

> Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> TSH .01

Reference ranges for reproductive hormones:

Estradiol Females in pg/ml

Early follicular phase = 20-150

Late follicular phase= 40-350

Midcycle Peak= 150-750

Luteal phase = 30-450

Postmenopausal= less than or equal to 20

FSH in IU/L

Follicular phase= 2.5-10.2

Mid-Cycle= 3.1-17.7

Luteal phase= 1.5-9.1

Postmenopausal= 23.0-116.3

Males= 1.6-8.0

Luteinizing Hormone (LH) in IU/L

Follicular Phase= 1.9-12.5

Mid-Cycle= 8.7-76.3

Luteal phase= 0.5-16.9

Postmenopausal= 5.0-52.3

Males= 1.5-9.3

Progesterone in ng/dL

Females

Follicular= less than or equal to 50

Luteal=300-2500

Postmenopausal= less than or equal to 40

Children=less than or equal to 20

Males= 10-50

TSH is normally 0.4-4.5 mU/L with ranges varying depending on units of

measurement and test methodologies. TSH is low (suppressed) in

hyperthyroidism.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Welcome to the group. As mentioned, reproductive hormones vary

considerably at different times in your menstrual cycle. I'll list some of

the ranges commonly used for these tests so you can see how levels can vary.

Also, there are some accounts that people with Graves' disease run low

progesterone levels so you might want to ask your doctor about that. While

levels aren't listed for peri-menopause, levels of progesterone are often low

during perimenopause.

The ranges for vitamin B12 and folate are based on people eating a normal

diet. When we take multivitamins or B complex, the B12 level usually runs

much higher than the normal range.

In a message dated 12/3/01 1:04:38 PM Mountain Standard Time,

nmh@... writes:

> Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> TSH .01

Reference ranges for reproductive hormones:

Estradiol Females in pg/ml

Early follicular phase = 20-150

Late follicular phase= 40-350

Midcycle Peak= 150-750

Luteal phase = 30-450

Postmenopausal= less than or equal to 20

FSH in IU/L

Follicular phase= 2.5-10.2

Mid-Cycle= 3.1-17.7

Luteal phase= 1.5-9.1

Postmenopausal= 23.0-116.3

Males= 1.6-8.0

Luteinizing Hormone (LH) in IU/L

Follicular Phase= 1.9-12.5

Mid-Cycle= 8.7-76.3

Luteal phase= 0.5-16.9

Postmenopausal= 5.0-52.3

Males= 1.5-9.3

Progesterone in ng/dL

Females

Follicular= less than or equal to 50

Luteal=300-2500

Postmenopausal= less than or equal to 40

Children=less than or equal to 20

Males= 10-50

TSH is normally 0.4-4.5 mU/L with ranges varying depending on units of

measurement and test methodologies. TSH is low (suppressed) in

hyperthyroidism.

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Glad you found us - hope we can be of help! I think most of us have been

frustrated with finally getting the initial diagnosis of Graves'. I don't

know that I can be much help for some of your questions, but I am the

who Jody's talking about below. I was recently diagnosed with mild

GD after my last pregnancy. Incidentally, the development of GD is common

after pregnancy (peak time is 4 to 7 months postpartum). Don't know how that

info may fit in with your onset of problems. Anyway, I was given the start

treatment options, but didn't really want do to any because of the _lack_ of

severity of my GD. I did a ton of reading and found an internet site that

talks about supplements and dietary changes. I figured, what the heck? Might

as well give it a try since all my other options seemed so severe. The site

is www.ithyroid.com There are links to some of Elaine's info here and

B's (both from this board) success story as well. Give it a look and see

what you think. I have been doing about half of the supplements now for

almost 4 months. At diagnosis, my FT4 was 1.97 (slightly high) and my TSH

was .01. Three months later, after 2 months of supplements, my FT4 has

dropped to 1.57 (now in normal range) and my TSH is .03. So far the

supplements are doing something for me - I'm not on any other medications.

My heart rate has also dropped from 100 to 80's.

I did get a hair analysis after the first month and found it very helpful.

I got my hair analysis from the Dr. recommended on the

www.ithyroid.com site since there aren't any docs in my area that do that

sort of thing. I emailed him at Larry@... with my address

information and he mailed the information and kit to send in your hair

sample. From what I understand, the lab he uses is preferred because they

don't wash the hair in detergents before testing which can alter the

results - so that's something to consider when getting a hair analysis. If

you mention the ithyroid site, it is $100 for the test. It took 2 weeks to

get the results back. You get a 4-5 page of results back. The main info is

contained in 2 pages that gives the different minerals, what your levels

were, and range of what normal levels should be. It's all in a graph type

format, so you really get a good view of what you're deficient in. Dr.

also provides some info on your specific results, what they mean, and

what supplements you might want to take, foods you might want to eat, etc.

You can take that for what it's worth. I found the mineral levels most

helpful.

For the multi you're taking now - the Centrum Performance - I would look

around for a different vitamin if I were you. I used to take just the

regular Centrum and I know it contains iodine, I'm assuming the Centrum

Perf. does too. Hypers like us don't need any more extra iodine - bad for

the already overactive thyroid. I'm sure Elaine can explain more about this.

A lot of people on this board also try and stay away from too much shellfish

and other food sources high in iodine for the same reason. So far, I haven't

found a multi that doesn't have iodine (except children's vitamins!). The

other supplements you mention are a good start - hold off on the zinc,

though. An important one is copper. Copper, iron, and zinc have dependencies

on one another, so you might want to take copper before starting zinc. All

this is very nicely explained on the ithyroid site and it provided some

guideline dosages for each supplement. I recommend starting there if you are

serious about trying supplements. Another good tip is to start slowly to see

what effect each one has on you.

I'd second Jody's recommendation on getting your TSI antibodies checked and

read all you can on GD. In this case, knowledge really is power. Do

concentrate on your GD, it can cause some serious health problems if left

untreated. Can't help much with the fertility issues, but GD can cause

problems with fertility. Gave you a lot of info, more than you wanted

probably. Hope some of it is helpful!

Re: New and looking for help with

Graves/Hashimoto's

>Hi ,

>Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you because I

>just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell of a

>roller coaster ride this past year!

>

>Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this and you

>can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

>or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to you on

>this.

>

>You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search on her.

>She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

>

>I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

>Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

>Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

>

>Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both from

>Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at B and

>N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a member

of

>this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

>

>Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what is it?

>Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having problems

>with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of symptoms

>for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list put

>together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us. Not

>everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are possible with

>GD.

>

>When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my first

>endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic menopause and

>that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

>

>I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading, keep

>asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a real trip

>on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it has to

>have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have had

this

>past year.

>

>Take care and again, welcome,

>Jody

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Glad you found us - hope we can be of help! I think most of us have been

frustrated with finally getting the initial diagnosis of Graves'. I don't

know that I can be much help for some of your questions, but I am the

who Jody's talking about below. I was recently diagnosed with mild

GD after my last pregnancy. Incidentally, the development of GD is common

after pregnancy (peak time is 4 to 7 months postpartum). Don't know how that

info may fit in with your onset of problems. Anyway, I was given the start

treatment options, but didn't really want do to any because of the _lack_ of

severity of my GD. I did a ton of reading and found an internet site that

talks about supplements and dietary changes. I figured, what the heck? Might

as well give it a try since all my other options seemed so severe. The site

is www.ithyroid.com There are links to some of Elaine's info here and

B's (both from this board) success story as well. Give it a look and see

what you think. I have been doing about half of the supplements now for

almost 4 months. At diagnosis, my FT4 was 1.97 (slightly high) and my TSH

was .01. Three months later, after 2 months of supplements, my FT4 has

dropped to 1.57 (now in normal range) and my TSH is .03. So far the

supplements are doing something for me - I'm not on any other medications.

My heart rate has also dropped from 100 to 80's.

I did get a hair analysis after the first month and found it very helpful.

I got my hair analysis from the Dr. recommended on the

www.ithyroid.com site since there aren't any docs in my area that do that

sort of thing. I emailed him at Larry@... with my address

information and he mailed the information and kit to send in your hair

sample. From what I understand, the lab he uses is preferred because they

don't wash the hair in detergents before testing which can alter the

results - so that's something to consider when getting a hair analysis. If

you mention the ithyroid site, it is $100 for the test. It took 2 weeks to

get the results back. You get a 4-5 page of results back. The main info is

contained in 2 pages that gives the different minerals, what your levels

were, and range of what normal levels should be. It's all in a graph type

format, so you really get a good view of what you're deficient in. Dr.

also provides some info on your specific results, what they mean, and

what supplements you might want to take, foods you might want to eat, etc.

You can take that for what it's worth. I found the mineral levels most

helpful.

For the multi you're taking now - the Centrum Performance - I would look

around for a different vitamin if I were you. I used to take just the

regular Centrum and I know it contains iodine, I'm assuming the Centrum

Perf. does too. Hypers like us don't need any more extra iodine - bad for

the already overactive thyroid. I'm sure Elaine can explain more about this.

A lot of people on this board also try and stay away from too much shellfish

and other food sources high in iodine for the same reason. So far, I haven't

found a multi that doesn't have iodine (except children's vitamins!). The

other supplements you mention are a good start - hold off on the zinc,

though. An important one is copper. Copper, iron, and zinc have dependencies

on one another, so you might want to take copper before starting zinc. All

this is very nicely explained on the ithyroid site and it provided some

guideline dosages for each supplement. I recommend starting there if you are

serious about trying supplements. Another good tip is to start slowly to see

what effect each one has on you.

I'd second Jody's recommendation on getting your TSI antibodies checked and

read all you can on GD. In this case, knowledge really is power. Do

concentrate on your GD, it can cause some serious health problems if left

untreated. Can't help much with the fertility issues, but GD can cause

problems with fertility. Gave you a lot of info, more than you wanted

probably. Hope some of it is helpful!

Re: New and looking for help with

Graves/Hashimoto's

>Hi ,

>Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you because I

>just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell of a

>roller coaster ride this past year!

>

>Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this and you

>can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

>or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to you on

>this.

>

>You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search on her.

>She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

>

>I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

>Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

>Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

>

>Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both from

>Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at B and

>N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a member

of

>this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

>

>Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what is it?

>Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having problems

>with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of symptoms

>for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list put

>together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us. Not

>everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are possible with

>GD.

>

>When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my first

>endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic menopause and

>that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

>

>I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading, keep

>asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a real trip

>on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it has to

>have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have had

this

>past year.

>

>Take care and again, welcome,

>Jody

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -

Glad you found us - hope we can be of help! I think most of us have been

frustrated with finally getting the initial diagnosis of Graves'. I don't

know that I can be much help for some of your questions, but I am the

who Jody's talking about below. I was recently diagnosed with mild

GD after my last pregnancy. Incidentally, the development of GD is common

after pregnancy (peak time is 4 to 7 months postpartum). Don't know how that

info may fit in with your onset of problems. Anyway, I was given the start

treatment options, but didn't really want do to any because of the _lack_ of

severity of my GD. I did a ton of reading and found an internet site that

talks about supplements and dietary changes. I figured, what the heck? Might

as well give it a try since all my other options seemed so severe. The site

is www.ithyroid.com There are links to some of Elaine's info here and

B's (both from this board) success story as well. Give it a look and see

what you think. I have been doing about half of the supplements now for

almost 4 months. At diagnosis, my FT4 was 1.97 (slightly high) and my TSH

was .01. Three months later, after 2 months of supplements, my FT4 has

dropped to 1.57 (now in normal range) and my TSH is .03. So far the

supplements are doing something for me - I'm not on any other medications.

My heart rate has also dropped from 100 to 80's.

I did get a hair analysis after the first month and found it very helpful.

I got my hair analysis from the Dr. recommended on the

www.ithyroid.com site since there aren't any docs in my area that do that

sort of thing. I emailed him at Larry@... with my address

information and he mailed the information and kit to send in your hair

sample. From what I understand, the lab he uses is preferred because they

don't wash the hair in detergents before testing which can alter the

results - so that's something to consider when getting a hair analysis. If

you mention the ithyroid site, it is $100 for the test. It took 2 weeks to

get the results back. You get a 4-5 page of results back. The main info is

contained in 2 pages that gives the different minerals, what your levels

were, and range of what normal levels should be. It's all in a graph type

format, so you really get a good view of what you're deficient in. Dr.

also provides some info on your specific results, what they mean, and

what supplements you might want to take, foods you might want to eat, etc.

You can take that for what it's worth. I found the mineral levels most

helpful.

For the multi you're taking now - the Centrum Performance - I would look

around for a different vitamin if I were you. I used to take just the

regular Centrum and I know it contains iodine, I'm assuming the Centrum

Perf. does too. Hypers like us don't need any more extra iodine - bad for

the already overactive thyroid. I'm sure Elaine can explain more about this.

A lot of people on this board also try and stay away from too much shellfish

and other food sources high in iodine for the same reason. So far, I haven't

found a multi that doesn't have iodine (except children's vitamins!). The

other supplements you mention are a good start - hold off on the zinc,

though. An important one is copper. Copper, iron, and zinc have dependencies

on one another, so you might want to take copper before starting zinc. All

this is very nicely explained on the ithyroid site and it provided some

guideline dosages for each supplement. I recommend starting there if you are

serious about trying supplements. Another good tip is to start slowly to see

what effect each one has on you.

I'd second Jody's recommendation on getting your TSI antibodies checked and

read all you can on GD. In this case, knowledge really is power. Do

concentrate on your GD, it can cause some serious health problems if left

untreated. Can't help much with the fertility issues, but GD can cause

problems with fertility. Gave you a lot of info, more than you wanted

probably. Hope some of it is helpful!

Re: New and looking for help with

Graves/Hashimoto's

>Hi ,

>Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you because I

>just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell of a

>roller coaster ride this past year!

>

>Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this and you

>can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

>or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to you on

>this.

>

>You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search on her.

>She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

>

>I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

>Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

>Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

>

>Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both from

>Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at B and

>N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a member

of

>this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

>

>Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what is it?

>Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having problems

>with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of symptoms

>for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list put

>together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us. Not

>everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are possible with

>GD.

>

>When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my first

>endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic menopause and

>that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

>

>I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading, keep

>asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a real trip

>on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it has to

>have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have had

this

>past year.

>

>Take care and again, welcome,

>Jody

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

I have--Women's One from Rainbow Light. Got it both at Whole Foods and thru

Vitimin Shoppe (hate their website, SLOW as molasses).

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:53:20 -0600

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: New and looking for help with Graves/Hashimoto's

>

> So far, I haven't

> found a multi that doesn't have iodine (except children's vitamins!)

[Guest guest]

,

I have--Women's One from Rainbow Light. Got it both at Whole Foods and thru

Vitimin Shoppe (hate their website, SLOW as molasses).

Terry

>

> Reply-To: graves_support

> Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2001 20:53:20 -0600

> To: <graves_support >

> Subject: Re: New and looking for help with Graves/Hashimoto's

>

> So far, I haven't

> found a multi that doesn't have iodine (except children's vitamins!)

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Glad you finally got here O.K. Isn't this a great place?

So many smart people here

How was your app. today? Mine was a bit frustrating, but I'll let you go first.

-Pam- Now back on the 'wait for labs' wagon

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Glad you finally got here O.K. Isn't this a great place?

So many smart people here

How was your app. today? Mine was a bit frustrating, but I'll let you go first.

-Pam- Now back on the 'wait for labs' wagon

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Glad you finally got here O.K. Isn't this a great place?

So many smart people here

How was your app. today? Mine was a bit frustrating, but I'll let you go first.

-Pam- Now back on the 'wait for labs' wagon

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you

because I

> just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell

of a

> roller coaster ride this past year!

>

> Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this

and you

> can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

> or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to

you on

> this.

>

> You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search

on her.

> She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

>

> I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

> Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

> Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

>

> Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both

from

> Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at

B and

> N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a

member of

> this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

>

> Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what

is it?

> Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having

problems

> with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of

symptoms

> for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list

put

> together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us.

Not

> everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are

possible with

> GD.

>

> When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my

first

> endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic

menopause and

> that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

>

> I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading,

keep

> asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a

real trip

> on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it

has to

> have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have

had this

> past year.

>

> Take care and again, welcome,

> Jody

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

==================================================================

I hope I am doing this right. Im typing into the " reply " .

You've been a tremendous help already!

Despite my numerous typos, I should correct one. I had a c-section

and not a D & C for delivery of my daughter.

I will do a search on Michele to see what's what about hair

analysis. This is totally new to me. Since I've always been healthy

I find it scary that a doctor isn't suggesting this or ordering it.

I have a couple books on thyroid:

The Thyroid Sourcebook

M. Sara Rosenthal

and

Your Thyroid

Lawrence C. Wood, and E.Chester Ridgway

However I will make is a point of going to Borders and checking into

these two:

Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

You can never know too much and this may provide additional

suggestions or possibly answers.

I honestly don't know if the TSI antibody or TSI antibody test for

TSH blocking receptors was ever done. I've tried to keep a copy of

everything in blood work but I don't see anything for that. I also

had alot of blood work done for the M.S. possibility. I have partial

results since some was still pending. It's been completed so I'll

ask for all of what they did. I think that may have been on there.

I'll have to hunt around for it. They were the ones that took the 7

or 9 viles of blood. If I find it, I'll post it too.

I am scheduled for a visual evoked potential test (VEP) ordered by my

neurologist on Decemeber 19th. I do have blurry vision at times and

my night vision such as driving at night is bad. I can no longer

accurately judge distances. When in the food store the lighting

drives me crazy. Alot of this could be because of age. Maybe the

VEP will indicate otherwise.

I really wonder more and more about the competency of the medical

field at large. We shouldn't have to ask one another for advice.

They should be forth coming with a diagnosis and be thorough in it.

Call me naieve but I fell like I'm going through a crash course in

thyroid and perimenapause.

I'll be doing some searching in the archives. I see there is alot of

knowledgeable people here that may not want to wait months for

tidbits of information. That's another thing, everything take sooo

long. The MRI pointed out the potential M.S. problem. Prior to

calling My GP told me to ask for a certain person. When I called,

she wasn't available so I spoke to who was. The neuroologist is the

son-in-law of my GP. If I had scheduled with the first person I

would have had to have waited till October for my first appt.,

whereas following up with the other it was July 13. I'm fortunate

but what about others who have a progressive disease?

Thank you again for all your help. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you

because I

> just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell

of a

> roller coaster ride this past year!

>

> Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this

and you

> can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

> or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to

you on

> this.

>

> You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search

on her.

> She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

>

> I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

> Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

> Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

>

> Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both

from

> Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at

B and

> N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a

member of

> this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

>

> Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what

is it?

> Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having

problems

> with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of

symptoms

> for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list

put

> together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us.

Not

> everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are

possible with

> GD.

>

> When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my

first

> endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic

menopause and

> that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

>

> I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading,

keep

> asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a

real trip

> on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it

has to

> have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have

had this

> past year.

>

> Take care and again, welcome,

> Jody

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

==================================================================

I hope I am doing this right. Im typing into the " reply " .

You've been a tremendous help already!

Despite my numerous typos, I should correct one. I had a c-section

and not a D & C for delivery of my daughter.

I will do a search on Michele to see what's what about hair

analysis. This is totally new to me. Since I've always been healthy

I find it scary that a doctor isn't suggesting this or ordering it.

I have a couple books on thyroid:

The Thyroid Sourcebook

M. Sara Rosenthal

and

Your Thyroid

Lawrence C. Wood, and E.Chester Ridgway

However I will make is a point of going to Borders and checking into

these two:

Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

You can never know too much and this may provide additional

suggestions or possibly answers.

I honestly don't know if the TSI antibody or TSI antibody test for

TSH blocking receptors was ever done. I've tried to keep a copy of

everything in blood work but I don't see anything for that. I also

had alot of blood work done for the M.S. possibility. I have partial

results since some was still pending. It's been completed so I'll

ask for all of what they did. I think that may have been on there.

I'll have to hunt around for it. They were the ones that took the 7

or 9 viles of blood. If I find it, I'll post it too.

I am scheduled for a visual evoked potential test (VEP) ordered by my

neurologist on Decemeber 19th. I do have blurry vision at times and

my night vision such as driving at night is bad. I can no longer

accurately judge distances. When in the food store the lighting

drives me crazy. Alot of this could be because of age. Maybe the

VEP will indicate otherwise.

I really wonder more and more about the competency of the medical

field at large. We shouldn't have to ask one another for advice.

They should be forth coming with a diagnosis and be thorough in it.

Call me naieve but I fell like I'm going through a crash course in

thyroid and perimenapause.

I'll be doing some searching in the archives. I see there is alot of

knowledgeable people here that may not want to wait months for

tidbits of information. That's another thing, everything take sooo

long. The MRI pointed out the potential M.S. problem. Prior to

calling My GP told me to ask for a certain person. When I called,

she wasn't available so I spoke to who was. The neuroologist is the

son-in-law of my GP. If I had scheduled with the first person I

would have had to have waited till October for my first appt.,

whereas following up with the other it was July 13. I'm fortunate

but what about others who have a progressive disease?

Thank you again for all your help. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

[Guest guest]

> Hi ,

> Welcome to the group. I'm not going to be of much service to you

because I

> just don't know what to say, except that you have been on one hell

of a

> roller coaster ride this past year!

>

> Regarding the hair analysis, in this group has done this

and you

> can read her comments by doing a search on the message page under

> or try hair, but I'm sure she will pop in and be very helpful to

you on

> this.

>

> You can read B's story in the archives also by doing a search

on her.

> She has been diagnosed with both Hashi's and Graves Disease.

>

> I would suggest that you get at least one of the 2 books following,

> Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

> Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

>

> Both of these books are absolutely great. You can get them both

from

> Amazon.com or barnesandnoble.com and Elaine's book is discounted at

B and

> N...plus free shipping when ordering 2 or more books. Elaine is a

member of

> this group also and hopefully she can say something about your labs.

>

> Do you know if you have had a TSI antibody test done? If so what

is it?

> Also the antibody test for TSH blocking receptors? Are you having

problems

> with your eyes? Somewhere around message 3700 there is a list of

symptoms

> for hyperT, hypoT and eye disease, it is a much more extensive list

put

> together by Terry ding from group with input by many of us.

Not

> everyone has all of the symptoms, but all of the symptoms are

possible with

> GD.

>

> When I was first diagnosed, I thought I was starting menopause, my

first

> endo (fired her) told me that GD symptoms very often mimic

menopause and

> that is why GD is often misdiagnosed.

>

> I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful, just tell you keep reading,

keep

> asking questions and please hang in here. This disease can be a

real trip

> on its own, but add all the stress you have had on top of it and it

has to

> have been so hard for you. I am so sorry about the losses you have

had this

> past year.

>

> Take care and again, welcome,

> Jody

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at

http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

==================================================================

I hope I am doing this right. Im typing into the " reply " .

You've been a tremendous help already!

Despite my numerous typos, I should correct one. I had a c-section

and not a D & C for delivery of my daughter.

I will do a search on Michele to see what's what about hair

analysis. This is totally new to me. Since I've always been healthy

I find it scary that a doctor isn't suggesting this or ordering it.

I have a couple books on thyroid:

The Thyroid Sourcebook

M. Sara Rosenthal

and

Your Thyroid

Lawrence C. Wood, and E.Chester Ridgway

However I will make is a point of going to Borders and checking into

these two:

Dr. Ridha (sp?) Arem The Thyroid Solution

Elaine Graves Disease; A Practical Guide

You can never know too much and this may provide additional

suggestions or possibly answers.

I honestly don't know if the TSI antibody or TSI antibody test for

TSH blocking receptors was ever done. I've tried to keep a copy of

everything in blood work but I don't see anything for that. I also

had alot of blood work done for the M.S. possibility. I have partial

results since some was still pending. It's been completed so I'll

ask for all of what they did. I think that may have been on there.

I'll have to hunt around for it. They were the ones that took the 7

or 9 viles of blood. If I find it, I'll post it too.

I am scheduled for a visual evoked potential test (VEP) ordered by my

neurologist on Decemeber 19th. I do have blurry vision at times and

my night vision such as driving at night is bad. I can no longer

accurately judge distances. When in the food store the lighting

drives me crazy. Alot of this could be because of age. Maybe the

VEP will indicate otherwise.

I really wonder more and more about the competency of the medical

field at large. We shouldn't have to ask one another for advice.

They should be forth coming with a diagnosis and be thorough in it.

Call me naieve but I fell like I'm going through a crash course in

thyroid and perimenapause.

I'll be doing some searching in the archives. I see there is alot of

knowledgeable people here that may not want to wait months for

tidbits of information. That's another thing, everything take sooo

long. The MRI pointed out the potential M.S. problem. Prior to

calling My GP told me to ask for a certain person. When I called,

she wasn't available so I spoke to who was. The neuroologist is the

son-in-law of my GP. If I had scheduled with the first person I

would have had to have waited till October for my first appt.,

whereas following up with the other it was July 13. I'm fortunate

but what about others who have a progressive disease?

Thank you again for all your help. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

[Guest guest]

I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarrige. After three years of

trying, becoming pregnant, that is a severe let down. Even still you

have a goof ovarian reserve. I hope the next one will be successful.

It's along story but I had my FHS and estradoil (sp) tested on Sat.

at day 2 since day 3 was a sunday. It's a long story how I managed

this since I was told by one doctor that it would be accurate because

of the .01 TSH. Maybe it won't be but I wanted to know somehing of

where I was. The infertility RN didn't want to do it till the TSH

was in the normal range. I think the results should be available

wednesay.

I will check out that infertility site. I know because of my age

conception is not in my favor but compelled to make certain. I'm

curious as to how the FSH declines per month. Whether it is fast or

slow at my age. I know I don't have alot of time left and have no

idea on my reserve. I'm only hoping that since my daughter was born

at 42 1/2 I might be lucky. I did have a miscarriage before her

birth the previous year. All these miscarriages and my age aren't

good signs.

Is the difference beween a reproductive endo and a general endo the

idea that infertility and endo problems are viewed together? If so,

I may need to try one. I think we have one hereeee but not sure.

You'll have to laugh at this. The doctor that did the " D & C " last

Decemebr was an OBGYN and a fertiloity specialist. I'm afraid if

this doctor can't properly do a D & C, I'd have no faith in any

fertility work. Taht really shocked me to have a doctor despite my

pelvin cramping dismiss me and never consider that maybe something

went wrong with the D & C. They had an ultr sound machine there. It

wouldn't have been a big deal. Humbling maybe when the results were

viewed but you know, I wouldn't have been so angry if the problem was

isolated and handled properly by the doctor that made the mistake.

COnsider yourself lucky. I have no doubt that your husband will help

you see the good ones and not waste time. Some of them out there have

no business in the medical profession. I didn't know that till now.

I've always been healthy ... except for when little I always had

strept throats. They wanted to take my tonsils out and I wouldn't

allow it. Now they aren't so wuick to take them out.

Well, however things turn out, I will be grateful that I am around to

raise my daughter. I have to remind myself that I have been

fortunate.

My sister-in-law was only 46 when progressive non hodgkins lymphoma

devoured her. She left behind a daughter 22 and a son 12. She had

another daughter after the one that was 22 and she died at age 5 of

internal bleeding. They never figured out what caused it. She came

home from school feeling " sick " . Asked to be excused from the dinner

table to lie down. Later Clara (sister-in-law checked her and she

had a life threatening high fever so they took her to the emergency

room. The last words to her mom were, " mommy I'm scared " and went

into a comma. I can't imagine how painful that was and there was

nothing they could do. They tried everything but nothing worked. So,

I know things could be alot worse.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

> Hi -

>

> I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a

miscarriage (and

> D & C) after 3 years of trying.

>

> To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or

above. If

> your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be

used as a

> gauge.

>

> Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never

helped me

> to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost

30. I

> wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility

drugs and

> had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to

conceive

> since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov.

My ovarian

> reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is

(I also

> have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

>

> I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes

sense

> that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which,

in turn,

> probably affects any hormones that they might make.

>

> An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It

has

> helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about

ovarian

> reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test

you again

> on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They

use it to

> determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances

of

> becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though,

fertility drops

> at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40.

There are

> many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as

you can

> attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

>

> Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you

should see a

> reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we

had a

> clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in

infertility. He

> has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry

since he

> doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and

infertility. At

> this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going

to L.A.

> or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none

when we

> go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks

ago, I

> have a little time to decide.

>

> I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and

everybody having

> different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the

medical

> field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try

to decide,

> I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the

time they

> figure it out, I'll be too old.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> > I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between

my

> > silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive

non

> > hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> > daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> > before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> > when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> > matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is

going

> > right in my life. Things could be worse.

> >

> > Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health

problems.

> > First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to

not

> > have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll

use

> > dates:

> >

> > 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

> >

> > 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

> >

> > Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had

been

> > as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> > thought this was odd but didn't question it.

> >

> > Numbers:

> >

> > TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 -

5.50)

> > FSH climbed to 23

> >

> > Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> > Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my

body

> > screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later

you'll

> > see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> > disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go

up.

> >

> > I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> > did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their

40's

> > rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> > interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing "

from

> > the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my

daughter

> > a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she

had

> > breathing problems during labor.

> >

> > I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods

and

> > no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> > till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2

with

> > no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> > menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> > was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> > different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> > the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to

aovid

> > being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> > menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're

following

> > them with age.

> >

> > Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> > lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

> >

> > Anyway, I'll continue ->

> >

> > 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and

allowed

> > GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The

TSH

> > remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> > 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> > Results:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> > thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused

by

> > the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes

because

> > of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> > you'd know when they occur.

> >

> > He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> > uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more

pressing

> > issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

> >

> > Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> > Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> > Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> > TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

> >

> > Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told

her

> > about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I

should

> > go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who

did

> > an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless.

Next I

> > allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their

bloodwork.

> >

> > 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

> >

> > Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> > FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> > LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> > Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> > TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

> >

> > Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> > numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular

cycle "

> > and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> > different?

> >

> > T3 uptake 37%

> > T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> > Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

> >

> > 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> > wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as

an

> > MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely

lethargic

> > and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> > cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what

labor

> > pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> > had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

> >

> > 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> > understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> > period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't

had

> > a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to

follow -

> > menopause time.

> >

> > Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

> >

> > 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> > after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have

no

> > idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> > new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to

the

> > miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> > first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly

removal.

> >

> > 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland

since I

> > had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> > the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> > if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary

gland

> > was normal but there were lesions in the white matter -

specifically

> > in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> > ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally

lock

> > up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the

possibility

> > of M.S..

> >

> > 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> > T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

> >

> > 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> > testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For

example

> > my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> > the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become

to

> > lengthy.

> >

> > 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands

but

> > not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> > because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> > some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is

and

> > I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

> >

> >

> > 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> > performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of

july

> > and August. Results:

> >

> > FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> > LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> > Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

> >

> > Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not

pregnant,

> > which is one in or both?

> >

> > Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> > period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

> >

> > Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> > palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I

have

> > to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> > plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> > thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

> >

> > 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

> >

> > 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> > endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> > Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to

conceive

> > again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about

drifting

> > into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want

that -

> > so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put

me

> > on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> > The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like

mud. I

> > was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors

were

> > diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

> >

> > 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> > T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

> >

> > I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff

with

> > FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three

weeks

> > of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run

down

> > attributes as before.

> >

> > I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I

had

> > graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> > wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't

make a

> > difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't

talked to

> > someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> > analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> > minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or

results to

> > be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> > determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> > certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so

what

> > are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who

can?

> >

> > What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be

done

> > about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me

as

> > a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the

thyroid?

> > I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my

thyroid

> > can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> > possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> > As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> > wonder about medical professionals.

> >

> > I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> > recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> > lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> > vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> > fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> > what dosages?

> >

> > ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> > answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no

matter

> > how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> > will I still have a chance to conceive?

> >

> > I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> > overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll

answer

> > them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos.

I'm

> > so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to

anyone

> > who responds.

> >

> > I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my

daughter

> > (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> > moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> > missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be

trained

> > soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming

very

> > pessimistic.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little

faith

> > in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> > helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> > read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarrige. After three years of

trying, becoming pregnant, that is a severe let down. Even still you

have a goof ovarian reserve. I hope the next one will be successful.

It's along story but I had my FHS and estradoil (sp) tested on Sat.

at day 2 since day 3 was a sunday. It's a long story how I managed

this since I was told by one doctor that it would be accurate because

of the .01 TSH. Maybe it won't be but I wanted to know somehing of

where I was. The infertility RN didn't want to do it till the TSH

was in the normal range. I think the results should be available

wednesay.

I will check out that infertility site. I know because of my age

conception is not in my favor but compelled to make certain. I'm

curious as to how the FSH declines per month. Whether it is fast or

slow at my age. I know I don't have alot of time left and have no

idea on my reserve. I'm only hoping that since my daughter was born

at 42 1/2 I might be lucky. I did have a miscarriage before her

birth the previous year. All these miscarriages and my age aren't

good signs.

Is the difference beween a reproductive endo and a general endo the

idea that infertility and endo problems are viewed together? If so,

I may need to try one. I think we have one hereeee but not sure.

You'll have to laugh at this. The doctor that did the " D & C " last

Decemebr was an OBGYN and a fertiloity specialist. I'm afraid if

this doctor can't properly do a D & C, I'd have no faith in any

fertility work. Taht really shocked me to have a doctor despite my

pelvin cramping dismiss me and never consider that maybe something

went wrong with the D & C. They had an ultr sound machine there. It

wouldn't have been a big deal. Humbling maybe when the results were

viewed but you know, I wouldn't have been so angry if the problem was

isolated and handled properly by the doctor that made the mistake.

COnsider yourself lucky. I have no doubt that your husband will help

you see the good ones and not waste time. Some of them out there have

no business in the medical profession. I didn't know that till now.

I've always been healthy ... except for when little I always had

strept throats. They wanted to take my tonsils out and I wouldn't

allow it. Now they aren't so wuick to take them out.

Well, however things turn out, I will be grateful that I am around to

raise my daughter. I have to remind myself that I have been

fortunate.

My sister-in-law was only 46 when progressive non hodgkins lymphoma

devoured her. She left behind a daughter 22 and a son 12. She had

another daughter after the one that was 22 and she died at age 5 of

internal bleeding. They never figured out what caused it. She came

home from school feeling " sick " . Asked to be excused from the dinner

table to lie down. Later Clara (sister-in-law checked her and she

had a life threatening high fever so they took her to the emergency

room. The last words to her mom were, " mommy I'm scared " and went

into a comma. I can't imagine how painful that was and there was

nothing they could do. They tried everything but nothing worked. So,

I know things could be alot worse.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

> Hi -

>

> I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a

miscarriage (and

> D & C) after 3 years of trying.

>

> To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or

above. If

> your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be

used as a

> gauge.

>

> Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never

helped me

> to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost

30. I

> wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility

drugs and

> had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to

conceive

> since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov.

My ovarian

> reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is

(I also

> have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

>

> I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes

sense

> that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which,

in turn,

> probably affects any hormones that they might make.

>

> An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It

has

> helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about

ovarian

> reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test

you again

> on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They

use it to

> determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances

of

> becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though,

fertility drops

> at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40.

There are

> many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as

you can

> attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

>

> Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you

should see a

> reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we

had a

> clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in

infertility. He

> has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry

since he

> doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and

infertility. At

> this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going

to L.A.

> or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none

when we

> go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks

ago, I

> have a little time to decide.

>

> I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and

everybody having

> different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the

medical

> field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try

to decide,

> I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the

time they

> figure it out, I'll be too old.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> > I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between

my

> > silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive

non

> > hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> > daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> > before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> > when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> > matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is

going

> > right in my life. Things could be worse.

> >

> > Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health

problems.

> > First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to

not

> > have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll

use

> > dates:

> >

> > 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

> >

> > 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

> >

> > Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had

been

> > as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> > thought this was odd but didn't question it.

> >

> > Numbers:

> >

> > TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 -

5.50)

> > FSH climbed to 23

> >

> > Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> > Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my

body

> > screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later

you'll

> > see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> > disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go

up.

> >

> > I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> > did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their

40's

> > rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> > interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing "

from

> > the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my

daughter

> > a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she

had

> > breathing problems during labor.

> >

> > I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods

and

> > no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> > till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2

with

> > no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> > menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> > was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> > different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> > the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to

aovid

> > being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> > menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're

following

> > them with age.

> >

> > Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> > lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

> >

> > Anyway, I'll continue ->

> >

> > 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and

allowed

> > GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The

TSH

> > remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> > 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> > Results:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> > thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused

by

> > the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes

because

> > of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> > you'd know when they occur.

> >

> > He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> > uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more

pressing

> > issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

> >

> > Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> > Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> > Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> > TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

> >

> > Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told

her

> > about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I

should

> > go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who

did

> > an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless.

Next I

> > allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their

bloodwork.

> >

> > 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

> >

> > Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> > FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> > LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> > Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> > TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

> >

> > Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> > numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular

cycle "

> > and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> > different?

> >

> > T3 uptake 37%

> > T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> > Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

> >

> > 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> > wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as

an

> > MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely

lethargic

> > and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> > cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what

labor

> > pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> > had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

> >

> > 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> > understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> > period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't

had

> > a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to

follow -

> > menopause time.

> >

> > Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

> >

> > 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> > after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have

no

> > idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> > new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to

the

> > miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> > first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly

removal.

> >

> > 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland

since I

> > had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> > the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> > if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary

gland

> > was normal but there were lesions in the white matter -

specifically

> > in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> > ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally

lock

> > up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the

possibility

> > of M.S..

> >

> > 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> > T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

> >

> > 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> > testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For

example

> > my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> > the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become

to

> > lengthy.

> >

> > 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands

but

> > not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> > because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> > some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is

and

> > I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

> >

> >

> > 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> > performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of

july

> > and August. Results:

> >

> > FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> > LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> > Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

> >

> > Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not

pregnant,

> > which is one in or both?

> >

> > Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> > period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

> >

> > Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> > palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I

have

> > to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> > plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> > thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

> >

> > 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

> >

> > 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> > endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> > Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to

conceive

> > again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about

drifting

> > into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want

that -

> > so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put

me

> > on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> > The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like

mud. I

> > was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors

were

> > diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

> >

> > 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> > T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

> >

> > I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff

with

> > FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three

weeks

> > of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run

down

> > attributes as before.

> >

> > I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I

had

> > graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> > wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't

make a

> > difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't

talked to

> > someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> > analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> > minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or

results to

> > be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> > determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> > certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so

what

> > are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who

can?

> >

> > What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be

done

> > about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me

as

> > a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the

thyroid?

> > I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my

thyroid

> > can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> > possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> > As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> > wonder about medical professionals.

> >

> > I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> > recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> > lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> > vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> > fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> > what dosages?

> >

> > ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> > answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no

matter

> > how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> > will I still have a chance to conceive?

> >

> > I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> > overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll

answer

> > them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos.

I'm

> > so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to

anyone

> > who responds.

> >

> > I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my

daughter

> > (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> > moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> > missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be

trained

> > soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming

very

> > pessimistic.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little

faith

> > in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> > helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> > read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarrige. After three years of

trying, becoming pregnant, that is a severe let down. Even still you

have a goof ovarian reserve. I hope the next one will be successful.

It's along story but I had my FHS and estradoil (sp) tested on Sat.

at day 2 since day 3 was a sunday. It's a long story how I managed

this since I was told by one doctor that it would be accurate because

of the .01 TSH. Maybe it won't be but I wanted to know somehing of

where I was. The infertility RN didn't want to do it till the TSH

was in the normal range. I think the results should be available

wednesay.

I will check out that infertility site. I know because of my age

conception is not in my favor but compelled to make certain. I'm

curious as to how the FSH declines per month. Whether it is fast or

slow at my age. I know I don't have alot of time left and have no

idea on my reserve. I'm only hoping that since my daughter was born

at 42 1/2 I might be lucky. I did have a miscarriage before her

birth the previous year. All these miscarriages and my age aren't

good signs.

Is the difference beween a reproductive endo and a general endo the

idea that infertility and endo problems are viewed together? If so,

I may need to try one. I think we have one hereeee but not sure.

You'll have to laugh at this. The doctor that did the " D & C " last

Decemebr was an OBGYN and a fertiloity specialist. I'm afraid if

this doctor can't properly do a D & C, I'd have no faith in any

fertility work. Taht really shocked me to have a doctor despite my

pelvin cramping dismiss me and never consider that maybe something

went wrong with the D & C. They had an ultr sound machine there. It

wouldn't have been a big deal. Humbling maybe when the results were

viewed but you know, I wouldn't have been so angry if the problem was

isolated and handled properly by the doctor that made the mistake.

COnsider yourself lucky. I have no doubt that your husband will help

you see the good ones and not waste time. Some of them out there have

no business in the medical profession. I didn't know that till now.

I've always been healthy ... except for when little I always had

strept throats. They wanted to take my tonsils out and I wouldn't

allow it. Now they aren't so wuick to take them out.

Well, however things turn out, I will be grateful that I am around to

raise my daughter. I have to remind myself that I have been

fortunate.

My sister-in-law was only 46 when progressive non hodgkins lymphoma

devoured her. She left behind a daughter 22 and a son 12. She had

another daughter after the one that was 22 and she died at age 5 of

internal bleeding. They never figured out what caused it. She came

home from school feeling " sick " . Asked to be excused from the dinner

table to lie down. Later Clara (sister-in-law checked her and she

had a life threatening high fever so they took her to the emergency

room. The last words to her mom were, " mommy I'm scared " and went

into a comma. I can't imagine how painful that was and there was

nothing they could do. They tried everything but nothing worked. So,

I know things could be alot worse.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

> Hi -

>

> I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a

miscarriage (and

> D & C) after 3 years of trying.

>

> To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or

above. If

> your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be

used as a

> gauge.

>

> Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never

helped me

> to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost

30. I

> wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility

drugs and

> had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to

conceive

> since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov.

My ovarian

> reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is

(I also

> have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

>

> I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes

sense

> that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which,

in turn,

> probably affects any hormones that they might make.

>

> An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It

has

> helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about

ovarian

> reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test

you again

> on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They

use it to

> determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances

of

> becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though,

fertility drops

> at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40.

There are

> many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as

you can

> attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

>

> Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you

should see a

> reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we

had a

> clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in

infertility. He

> has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry

since he

> doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and

infertility. At

> this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going

to L.A.

> or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none

when we

> go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks

ago, I

> have a little time to decide.

>

> I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and

everybody having

> different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the

medical

> field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try

to decide,

> I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the

time they

> figure it out, I'll be too old.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> > I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between

my

> > silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive

non

> > hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> > daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> > before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> > when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> > matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is

going

> > right in my life. Things could be worse.

> >

> > Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health

problems.

> > First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to

not

> > have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll

use

> > dates:

> >

> > 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

> >

> > 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

> >

> > Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had

been

> > as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> > thought this was odd but didn't question it.

> >

> > Numbers:

> >

> > TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 -

5.50)

> > FSH climbed to 23

> >

> > Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> > Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my

body

> > screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later

you'll

> > see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> > disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go

up.

> >

> > I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> > did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their

40's

> > rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> > interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing "

from

> > the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my

daughter

> > a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she

had

> > breathing problems during labor.

> >

> > I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods

and

> > no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> > till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2

with

> > no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> > menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> > was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> > different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> > the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to

aovid

> > being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> > menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're

following

> > them with age.

> >

> > Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> > lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

> >

> > Anyway, I'll continue ->

> >

> > 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and

allowed

> > GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The

TSH

> > remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> > 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> > Results:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> > thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused

by

> > the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes

because

> > of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> > you'd know when they occur.

> >

> > He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> > uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more

pressing

> > issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

> >

> > Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> > Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> > Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> > TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

> >

> > Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told

her

> > about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I

should

> > go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who

did

> > an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless.

Next I

> > allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their

bloodwork.

> >

> > 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

> >

> > Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> > FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> > LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> > Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> > TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

> >

> > Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> > numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular

cycle "

> > and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> > different?

> >

> > T3 uptake 37%

> > T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> > Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

> >

> > 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> > wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as

an

> > MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely

lethargic

> > and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> > cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what

labor

> > pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> > had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

> >

> > 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> > understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> > period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't

had

> > a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to

follow -

> > menopause time.

> >

> > Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

> >

> > 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> > after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have

no

> > idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> > new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to

the

> > miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> > first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly

removal.

> >

> > 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland

since I

> > had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> > the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> > if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary

gland

> > was normal but there were lesions in the white matter -

specifically

> > in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> > ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally

lock

> > up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the

possibility

> > of M.S..

> >

> > 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> > T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

> >

> > 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> > testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For

example

> > my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> > the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become

to

> > lengthy.

> >

> > 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands

but

> > not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> > because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> > some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is

and

> > I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

> >

> >

> > 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> > performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of

july

> > and August. Results:

> >

> > FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> > LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> > Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

> >

> > Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not

pregnant,

> > which is one in or both?

> >

> > Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> > period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

> >

> > Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> > palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I

have

> > to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> > plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> > thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

> >

> > 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

> >

> > 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> > endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> > Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to

conceive

> > again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about

drifting

> > into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want

that -

> > so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put

me

> > on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> > The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like

mud. I

> > was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors

were

> > diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

> >

> > 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> > T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

> >

> > I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff

with

> > FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three

weeks

> > of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run

down

> > attributes as before.

> >

> > I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I

had

> > graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> > wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't

make a

> > difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't

talked to

> > someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> > analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> > minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or

results to

> > be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> > determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> > certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so

what

> > are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who

can?

> >

> > What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be

done

> > about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me

as

> > a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the

thyroid?

> > I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my

thyroid

> > can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> > possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> > As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> > wonder about medical professionals.

> >

> > I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> > recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> > lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> > vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> > fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> > what dosages?

> >

> > ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> > answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no

matter

> > how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> > will I still have a chance to conceive?

> >

> > I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> > overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll

answer

> > them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos.

I'm

> > so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to

anyone

> > who responds.

> >

> > I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my

daughter

> > (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> > moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> > missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be

trained

> > soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming

very

> > pessimistic.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little

faith

> > in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> > helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> > read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarrige. After three years of

trying, becoming pregnant, that is a severe let down. Even still you

have a goof ovarian reserve. I hope the next one will be successful.

It's along story but I had my FHS and estradoil (sp) tested on Sat.

at day 2 since day 3 was a sunday. It's a long story how I managed

this since I was told by one doctor that it would be accurate because

of the .01 TSH. Maybe it won't be but I wanted to know somehing of

where I was. The infertility RN didn't want to do it till the TSH

was in the normal range. I think the results should be available

wednesay.

I will check out that infertility site. I know because of my age

conception is not in my favor but compelled to make certain. I'm

curious as to how the FSH declines per month. Whether it is fast or

slow at my age. I know I don't have alot of time left and have no

idea on my reserve. I'm only hoping that since my daughter was born

at 42 1/2 I might be lucky. I did have a miscarriage before her

birth the previous year. All these miscarriages and my age aren't

good signs.

Is the difference beween a reproductive endo and a general endo the

idea that infertility and endo problems are viewed together? If so,

I may need to try one. I think we have one hereeee but not sure.

You'll have to laugh at this. The doctor that did the " D & C " last

Decemebr was an OBGYN and a fertiloity specialist. I'm afraid if

this doctor can't properly do a D & C, I'd have no faith in any

fertility work. Taht really shocked me to have a doctor despite my

pelvin cramping dismiss me and never consider that maybe something

went wrong with the D & C. They had an ultr sound machine there. It

wouldn't have been a big deal. Humbling maybe when the results were

viewed but you know, I wouldn't have been so angry if the problem was

isolated and handled properly by the doctor that made the mistake.

COnsider yourself lucky. I have no doubt that your husband will help

you see the good ones and not waste time. Some of them out there have

no business in the medical profession. I didn't know that till now.

I've always been healthy ... except for when little I always had

strept throats. They wanted to take my tonsils out and I wouldn't

allow it. Now they aren't so wuick to take them out.

Well, however things turn out, I will be grateful that I am around to

raise my daughter. I have to remind myself that I have been

fortunate.

My sister-in-law was only 46 when progressive non hodgkins lymphoma

devoured her. She left behind a daughter 22 and a son 12. She had

another daughter after the one that was 22 and she died at age 5 of

internal bleeding. They never figured out what caused it. She came

home from school feeling " sick " . Asked to be excused from the dinner

table to lie down. Later Clara (sister-in-law checked her and she

had a life threatening high fever so they took her to the emergency

room. The last words to her mom were, " mommy I'm scared " and went

into a comma. I can't imagine how painful that was and there was

nothing they could do. They tried everything but nothing worked. So,

I know things could be alot worse.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

> Hi -

>

> I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a

miscarriage (and

> D & C) after 3 years of trying.

>

> To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or

above. If

> your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be

used as a

> gauge.

>

> Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never

helped me

> to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost

30. I

> wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility

drugs and

> had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to

conceive

> since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov.

My ovarian

> reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is

(I also

> have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

>

> I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes

sense

> that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which,

in turn,

> probably affects any hormones that they might make.

>

> An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It

has

> helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about

ovarian

> reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test

you again

> on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They

use it to

> determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances

of

> becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though,

fertility drops

> at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40.

There are

> many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as

you can

> attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

>

> Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you

should see a

> reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we

had a

> clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in

infertility. He

> has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry

since he

> doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and

infertility. At

> this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going

to L.A.

> or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none

when we

> go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks

ago, I

> have a little time to decide.

>

> I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and

everybody having

> different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the

medical

> field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try

to decide,

> I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the

time they

> figure it out, I'll be too old.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> > I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between

my

> > silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive

non

> > hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> > daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> > before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> > when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> > matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is

going

> > right in my life. Things could be worse.

> >

> > Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health

problems.

> > First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to

not

> > have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll

use

> > dates:

> >

> > 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

> >

> > 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

> >

> > Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had

been

> > as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> > thought this was odd but didn't question it.

> >

> > Numbers:

> >

> > TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 -

5.50)

> > FSH climbed to 23

> >

> > Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> > Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my

body

> > screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later

you'll

> > see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> > disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go

up.

> >

> > I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> > did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their

40's

> > rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> > interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing "

from

> > the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my

daughter

> > a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she

had

> > breathing problems during labor.

> >

> > I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods

and

> > no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> > till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2

with

> > no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> > menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> > was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> > different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> > the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to

aovid

> > being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> > menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're

following

> > them with age.

> >

> > Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> > lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

> >

> > Anyway, I'll continue ->

> >

> > 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and

allowed

> > GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The

TSH

> > remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> > 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> > Results:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> > thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused

by

> > the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes

because

> > of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> > you'd know when they occur.

> >

> > He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> > uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more

pressing

> > issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

> >

> > Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> > Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> > Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> > TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

> >

> > Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told

her

> > about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I

should

> > go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who

did

> > an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless.

Next I

> > allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their

bloodwork.

> >

> > 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

> >

> > Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> > FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> > LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> > Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> > TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

> >

> > Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> > numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular

cycle "

> > and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> > different?

> >

> > T3 uptake 37%

> > T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> > Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

> >

> > 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> > wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as

an

> > MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely

lethargic

> > and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> > cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what

labor

> > pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> > had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

> >

> > 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> > understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> > period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't

had

> > a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to

follow -

> > menopause time.

> >

> > Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

> >

> > 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> > after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have

no

> > idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> > new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to

the

> > miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> > first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly

removal.

> >

> > 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland

since I

> > had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> > the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> > if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary

gland

> > was normal but there were lesions in the white matter -

specifically

> > in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> > ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally

lock

> > up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the

possibility

> > of M.S..

> >

> > 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> > T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

> >

> > 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> > testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For

example

> > my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> > the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become

to

> > lengthy.

> >

> > 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands

but

> > not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> > because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> > some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is

and

> > I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

> >

> >

> > 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> > performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of

july

> > and August. Results:

> >

> > FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> > LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> > Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

> >

> > Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not

pregnant,

> > which is one in or both?

> >

> > Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> > period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

> >

> > Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> > palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I

have

> > to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> > plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> > thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

> >

> > 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

> >

> > 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> > endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> > Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to

conceive

> > again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about

drifting

> > into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want

that -

> > so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put

me

> > on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> > The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like

mud. I

> > was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors

were

> > diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

> >

> > 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> > T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

> >

> > I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff

with

> > FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three

weeks

> > of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run

down

> > attributes as before.

> >

> > I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I

had

> > graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> > wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't

make a

> > difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't

talked to

> > someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> > analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> > minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or

results to

> > be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> > determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> > certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so

what

> > are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who

can?

> >

> > What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be

done

> > about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me

as

> > a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the

thyroid?

> > I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my

thyroid

> > can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> > possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> > As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> > wonder about medical professionals.

> >

> > I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> > recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> > lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> > vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> > fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> > what dosages?

> >

> > ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> > answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no

matter

> > how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> > will I still have a chance to conceive?

> >

> > I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> > overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll

answer

> > them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos.

I'm

> > so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to

anyone

> > who responds.

> >

> > I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my

daughter

> > (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> > moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> > missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be

trained

> > soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming

very

> > pessimistic.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little

faith

> > in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> > helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> > read this and even respond.

[Guest guest]

I'm very sorry to hear about your miscarrige. After three years of

trying, becoming pregnant, that is a severe let down. Even still you

have a goof ovarian reserve. I hope the next one will be successful.

It's along story but I had my FHS and estradoil (sp) tested on Sat.

at day 2 since day 3 was a sunday. It's a long story how I managed

this since I was told by one doctor that it would be accurate because

of the .01 TSH. Maybe it won't be but I wanted to know somehing of

where I was. The infertility RN didn't want to do it till the TSH

was in the normal range. I think the results should be available

wednesay.

I will check out that infertility site. I know because of my age

conception is not in my favor but compelled to make certain. I'm

curious as to how the FSH declines per month. Whether it is fast or

slow at my age. I know I don't have alot of time left and have no

idea on my reserve. I'm only hoping that since my daughter was born

at 42 1/2 I might be lucky. I did have a miscarriage before her

birth the previous year. All these miscarriages and my age aren't

good signs.

Is the difference beween a reproductive endo and a general endo the

idea that infertility and endo problems are viewed together? If so,

I may need to try one. I think we have one hereeee but not sure.

You'll have to laugh at this. The doctor that did the " D & C " last

Decemebr was an OBGYN and a fertiloity specialist. I'm afraid if

this doctor can't properly do a D & C, I'd have no faith in any

fertility work. Taht really shocked me to have a doctor despite my

pelvin cramping dismiss me and never consider that maybe something

went wrong with the D & C. They had an ultr sound machine there. It

wouldn't have been a big deal. Humbling maybe when the results were

viewed but you know, I wouldn't have been so angry if the problem was

isolated and handled properly by the doctor that made the mistake.

COnsider yourself lucky. I have no doubt that your husband will help

you see the good ones and not waste time. Some of them out there have

no business in the medical profession. I didn't know that till now.

I've always been healthy ... except for when little I always had

strept throats. They wanted to take my tonsils out and I wouldn't

allow it. Now they aren't so wuick to take them out.

Well, however things turn out, I will be grateful that I am around to

raise my daughter. I have to remind myself that I have been

fortunate.

My sister-in-law was only 46 when progressive non hodgkins lymphoma

devoured her. She left behind a daughter 22 and a son 12. She had

another daughter after the one that was 22 and she died at age 5 of

internal bleeding. They never figured out what caused it. She came

home from school feeling " sick " . Asked to be excused from the dinner

table to lie down. Later Clara (sister-in-law checked her and she

had a life threatening high fever so they took her to the emergency

room. The last words to her mom were, " mommy I'm scared " and went

into a comma. I can't imagine how painful that was and there was

nothing they could do. They tried everything but nothing worked. So,

I know things could be alot worse.

Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.

Best Regards,

> Hi -

>

> I've been dealing with infertility for years. I just had a

miscarriage (and

> D & C) after 3 years of trying.

>

> To my knowledge, they are concerned with a Day 3 FSH of 10 or

above. If

> your FSH levels weren't measured on that day, it can't really be

used as a

> gauge.

>

> Just as a comfort, I had RAI at 24 (I'm 39 now) and it has never

helped me

> to conceive. I started trying to have a child when I was almost

30. I

> wasn't able to conceive til I was 32 with the help of fertility

drugs and

> had my baby when I just turned 33. This time, I've been trying to

conceive

> since I was 36. I got pregnant in Sept. then miscarried in Nov.

My ovarian

> reserve is fine so they can't really figure out what the problem is

(I also

> have a bunch of old gals that can have babies in my family).

>

> I don't know about thyroid levels affecting FSH levels but it makes

sense

> that they could. Thyroid levels affect every cell there is which,

in turn,

> probably affects any hormones that they might make.

>

> An excellent site for infertility is at http://www.inciid.org. It

has

> helped me tremendously. And also if you want to know more about

ovarian

> reserve testing (they test FSH on day 3, start Clomid, then test

you again

> on day 10), I'd be happy to talk to you privately about it. They

use it to

> determine if you have enough eggs left which increases your chances

of

> becoming pregnant even if you are older. Generally though,

fertility drops

> at 30, it drops more sharply at 35 then really plummets at 40.

There are

> many cases though of women having successful pregnancies past 40 as

you can

> attest to. Really, it depends on the patient.

>

> Are you seeing a fertility specialist? If at all possible you

should see a

> reproductive endocrinologist (RE). I would in a heartbeat if we

had a

> clinic around here. So I see an OB/GYN who specializes in

infertility. He

> has good success rates with infertility in general but I worry

since he

> doesn't have much experience with endocrine disorders and

infertility. At

> this age though, I'm considering being really aggressive and going

to L.A.

> or S.F. to an RE. My insurance covers 50% for infertility but none

when we

> go out of the area. Since my miscarriage and D & C were only 3 weeks

ago, I

> have a little time to decide.

>

> I know the despair you speak of. After all these years and

everybody having

> different ideas of what's wrong, I've also lost confidence in the

medical

> field (and I'm married to a physician). While they argue and try

to decide,

> I keep getting older. It's enough to make you cry because by the

time they

> figure it out, I'll be too old.

>

> Take care,

>

>

>

>

> > I hope you can help me. It's been an unbelievable year. Between

my

> > silly health problems and losing my sister-in-law to progressive

non

> > hodgkins lymphoma it's been taxing. My sister-in-law was my

> > daughters Godmother. Atleast I had a chance to say goodbye to her

> > before she died in August. We only found out she will ill in May

> > when she didn't come to her daughters graduation at U. of P.. No

> > matter what the outcome for me, I'm still thankful for what is

going

> > right in my life. Things could be worse.

> >

> > Allow me to give you some background on my annoying health

problems.

> > First I've always been healthy so it's been a rude awakening to

not

> > have health problems properly dealt with. To make is easier I'll

use

> > dates:

> >

> > 12/19/00 Had D & C for a miscarriage

> >

> > 1/01 Had follow up with obgyn and blood work

> >

> > Also no period and pelvic cramping. Prior to miscarriage I had

been

> > as regular as a clock. Oddly after the D & C I had NO bleeding. I

> > thought this was odd but didn't question it.

> >

> > Numbers:

> >

> > TSH .03 (with a normal range of .35 -

5.50)

> > FSH climbed to 23

> >

> > Question: Is 23 the end of conceiving regardless of other things ?

> > Please be honest with me. I have read 20 is the limit. Or is my

body

> > screwed up and needing time to adjust to normal levels? Later

you'll

> > see that at the time I had a dead fetus in there. Despite my

> > disappoinment with that I am hoping that that caused my FSH to go

up.

> >

> > I was told I was entering menopause and I had to accept it since I

> > did not respond to provera. He also told me that women in their

40's

> > rarely conceive so I was lucky I even conceived. He was not

> > interested in the pelvic cramping. I was told I was " healing "

from

> > the D & C. His jaw dropped when I informed him that I had my

daughter

> > a 42 1/2 with no medical intervention other than a D & C when she

had

> > breathing problems during labor.

> >

> > I had had a previous D & C, bleeding after surgery, regular periods

and

> > no cramping so I was confused. Also my mom didn't enter menopause

> > till her late 50's. Like her mother I had my daughter at 42 1/2

with

> > no trouble. I had read that children late in life tend to move

> > menopause back. He also knew I wanted to conceive again before it

> > was too late. He said I couldn't and repeated that menaapause it

> > different for everyone regardless of when it occurred to others in

> > the family. This phrase bothers me. It's convinetly used to

aovid

> > being specific and to ignore a problem. If relatives started

> > menapause at my age, then he would have said, see, you're

following

> > them with age.

> >

> > Question: Was my FSH affected by the thyroid? Was it raised or

> > lowered by the thyroid problem/fetus still there?

> >

> > Anyway, I'll continue ->

> >

> > 2/20/01 Saw GP since this doctor (OBGYN) was obnoxious and

allowed

> > GP to refer me to an endo. GP set me up for a thyroid scan. The

TSH

> > remained low, thyroid normal in appearance, uptake at 6 hours is

> > 13%, uptake at 23 hours is 22%. Of course more blood work too.

> > Results:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.41 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > 3/1/01 Went to the referred endocrinologist by GP to pursue the

> > thyroid. Endo commented that miscarriage could have been caused

by

> > the thyroid problem. He kept asking me if I had hot flashes

because

> > of the FSH and TSH. I assured him I wasn't and since learned that

> > you'd know when they occur.

> >

> > He did blood work too and wanted to see my back in 7/01. I was

> > uncomfortable with him and the pelvic pain became the more

pressing

> > issue. In any event here are the blood work results from him:

> >

> > Total T4 8.5 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T-uptake .77 (range .72 -1.24)

> > Free T4 11.2 (range 5.0 - 12.0

> > Total T3 97 (range 51-165)

> > TSH .01 (range .47 -5.01)

> >

> > Called my cousin in another state because she is an RN and told

her

> > about my pelvic pain and thyroid. She was torn as to where I

should

> > go first but decided I should see her OB. Saw the her OBGYN who

did

> > an internal exam. No problem was noticed. It was pointless.

Next I

> > allowed them to refer me to another endo because of their

bloodwork.

> >

> > 4/20/01 OBGYN did blood work:

> >

> > Estradiol 103 (midcycle)

> > FSH 16.6 (midcycle)

> > LH 10.9 (midcycle)

> > Prog. 2.8 (follicular phase) Odd? Comments?

> > TSH .01 (range .40 5.50)

> >

> > Question: Why is the progesterone so off compared to the other

> > numbers and cycle they are in. Progesterone is in " follicular

cycle "

> > and all the others indicate " midcycle " . Why is progesterone

> > different?

> >

> > T3 uptake 37%

> > T4 Total 8.8 (range 4.5 - 12.9)

> > Free T4 3.3 (range 1.4 - 3.8)

> >

> > 5/4/01 GP ordered more blood work:

> >

> > TSH .03 (range .40 - 4.20)

> > T4 Free 1.4 (range .70 - 1.50)

> >

> > This endo took me seriously for awhile however later all this endo

> > wanted to do was trend me! An ultra sound was ordered as well as

an

> > MRI and you guessed it - more blood work! I was extremely

lethargic

> > and the cramping was worse. Prior to any of this I never had

> > cramping. In fact when I had my daughter I had to ask them what

labor

> > pains were. They said cramping which didn't help me since I never

> > had those problems. Well, I discovered what labor pains were.

> >

> > 5/01 Ultra sound revealed an 8 week mummified fetal pole. Now I

> > understood what the pelvic cramping was all about and lack of a

> > period from after the first " D & C " surgery on 12/19/00. I hadn't

had

> > a period since then and told ovarian failure, hot flashes to

follow -

> > menopause time.

> >

> > Question: Could this be why my FSH was so high earlier on?

> >

> > 6/1/01 Second D & C surgery to remove dead baby. Normal bleeding

> > after 2nd D & C surgery. Normal period later in the month. I have

no

> > idea what this other doctor did on 12/19 as a " D & C " . It was not a

> > new pregnancy and as far as I knew I wasn't having twins prior to

the

> > miscarriage. I suspect he never removed the deceased baby. The

> > first D & C pathology report was vague. The second was clearly

removal.

> >

> > 6/12/01 Endo re-ordered an MRI to look at the pituitary gland

since I

> > had had both the utlra sound an MRI scheduled for the same day and

> > the ultra sound revealed a " pregnancy " no MRI could be done

> > if " pregnant " . The re-scheduled MRI showed that the pituitary

gland

> > was normal but there were lesions in the white matter -

specifically

> > in the per ventricular, the centrum semiovale and the right basal

> > ganglia. Now I understood why my right side would occasionally

lock

> > up but I wasn't bothered that much by it. There is the

possibility

> > of M.S..

> >

> > 7/7/01 Endo blood work results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > T4 Free 2.89 (range .8 - 1.8)

> > T3 Uptake 42 (range 27.8 - 40.7)

> >

> > 7/13/01 Appt. with Neurologist and nine viles of blood for immune

> > testing. Od things showed there but too much to list. For

example

> > my B-12 was >1200 and the normal range is 131-962, folate 23.2 and

> > the range is 3.0 - 17.0. There are a few more but it will become

to

> > lengthy.

> >

> > 8/24/01 Spinal tap which on later follow up showed abnormal bands

but

> > not sure yet if M.S. or he mentioned Thyroid encephalitis (sp) but

> > because so rare leaned more towards M.S.. YET, abnormality lacks

> > some of the attributes of M.S.. In short, who knows what it is

and

> > I'm not concerned about it. More so curious.

> >

> >

> > 8/27/01 Amenorrhea - 7/01 - 8/30 so made an appt with OBGYN that

> > performed 2nd D & C because of being amenorrhea for the months of

july

> > and August. Results:

> >

> > FSH 2.5 (Follicular)

> > LH 3.4 (Follicular)

> > Prolactin 7 (non pregant 3-30 and postmenopausal 2-20)

> > TSH .01 (range .40 - 5.50)

> > Corrisol Gonh <2 (non pregnant <5 and postmenapausal <10)

> >

> > Question: When there is a choice of post menapausal and not

pregnant,

> > which is one in or both?

> >

> > Later in September I had 2 weeks of mud followed by a normal

> > period. During the month I am sooo sluggish and tired.

> >

> > Endo wanted to do more blood work. I was having random heart

> > palpitations, tremors and hair loss. Normally when I shower I

have

> > to remove hair from the drain once. Now it was up to three times

> > plus amenorrhea again and the OB said this was being caused by the

> > thyroid. Yes, it was turning into a finger pointing contest.

> >

> > 8/4/01 Second MRI which later reflected no significant change.

> >

> > 9/01 Moved records to 3rd Endo. I was annoyed when I read the 2nd

> > endo's file on me. After a month of seeing me she thought I had

> > Hashimoto's. Why then not treat it? She knew I wanted to

conceive

> > again if possible. Instead she continually warned me about

drifting

> > into graves disease. She did offer an RAI and I didn't want

that -

> > so more blood work trending. Anyway the 3rd endo immediately put

me

> > on PTU at 100 mg a day. I also had a period for ~ 3 weeks (Sept).

> > The last week was blood while the other weeks it looked like

mud. I

> > was back to being lethargic but heart palps went away, tremors

were

> > diminishing and hair loss wasn't so bad.

> >

> > 10/30/01 Had blood work done (3rd Endo) and results:

> >

> > TSH .01 (range .40 -5.50)

> > T4 Total 10.9 (range 4.5 - 12.0)

> > T3 Total 229 (range 60 - 181)

> >

> > I've had other blood work done but limit this to thyroid stuff

with

> > FSH concerns. October I was amenorrhea and November I had three

weeks

> > of scanty mud than an normal period. I had the usual tired, run

down

> > attributes as before.

> >

> > I have a follow-up with my endo tomorrow. I was there and said I

had

> > graves disease. I thought I had Hashimoto's. Somtimes I really

> > wonder ... He also said that diet, vitamins and minerals don't

make a

> > difference. Is this true? I've read otherwise but haven't

talked to

> > someone with my problems that has ahd success. Also is a hair

> > analysis the way to go to discover deficiences in vitamins and

> > minerals? If so, is a doctors script required for this or

results to

> > be sent to? Also how reliable is it? Are there other ways of

> > determining this such as through a nutritionalist? DO they ned

> > certification of need to meet liciensing requirement and if so

what

> > are they? Quacks abound out there. If not a nutritionalist, who

can?

> >

> > What I am looking for is what anomalies do you see? What can be

done

> > about them and over all what is going on? How would you treat me

as

> > a patient? Also is my declining and rising FSH due to the

thyroid?

> > I'd like to conceive again but know it is very iffy. If my

thyroid

> > can be fixed and the FSH stabilizes at below 20, is it still

> > possible? Also why is my progesterone so low and cortisol so low?

> > As I view this now, why didn't someone remedy that? At times I

> > wonder about medical professionals.

> >

> > I've also been investigating vitamins/minerals. Any

> > recommendations? I don't know if this helps but I am 5'2 " and 118

> > lbs. I take Centrum Performance. I've been eying Biotin for

> > vertical ridge nails, selenium, magnesium, B complex, Vit E, Omega

> > fatty acids and Zinc. Would taking this be appropriate and if so

> > what dosages?

> >

> > ALL advice and observations are welcome - even if I don't like the

> > answers. Especially on conception. I fear my time is over no

matter

> > how hard I have tried to get well. Is it true or when " normal "

> > will I still have a chance to conceive?

> >

> > I may have missed some blood work stuff but I think you've got the

> > overal picture. If you have questions, don't hold back. I'll

answer

> > them to the best of my ability. Please pardon any missed typos.

I'm

> > so anxious to get advice that may help. Thanks in advance to

anyone

> > who responds.

> >

> > I really need some pep. I've been trying to potty train my

daughter

> > (2 1/2) and feel asleep in a chair next to her during a " big

> > moment " . All I heard was mommy, get down. She was finished and I

> > missed it but praised her when noticed. Hopefully she'll be

trained

> > soon I would so love to give her a sibling but I'm becoming

very

> > pessimistic.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > All help is wanted and appreciated. Lately I have had little

faith

> > in the medical profession and feeling more and more confused and

> > helpless as time marches on. Thank you in advance to all who may

> > read this and even respond.