Re: air hunger and adrenals vs. thyroid

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

Just gone through your list and one of the things that kinda hits me is the amount of herbal meds and vits you are taking. My ND told me on my first visit with her was her thinking 'give only what is needed' and get the system up with good supplements and good eating habits, then cut back on stuff that I should be getting from the food once I am at that point. Can I say that I think it would be a good idea to get a graph going of all that you are taking and the amounts in each one and then add the columns up to see what is the total amount that you are taking of each particular herb, vit: and mineral. Herbs, vitamins and minerals, like RX can be taken to excess and can have bad results to them and with the quantity that you are taking do you know if you have gone over the daily limit with some of it? If you have that could also be some of the cause of you not feeling the best and in fact could be doing some harm. Taking just the right

amount of any of these things is the key and when sick we sometimes need to increase for a short time but once the need is over then we should go back to only as needed thinking. Over dosing on these products can be as dangerous as doing the same thing with RX. Just thought that I would put that out there for you to check out.

Dawn Marlena wrote:

Ok, Topper, thank you for picking me apart -- that'sexactly what I want!!Right now, I take one dose of naturthroid. I waschewing it up but it was too small to actually swallowso I think most of it absorbed through my mouth not mystomach. However, I took it on an empty stomachanyway, then waited 1/2 hour to take a couplesupplements that also need to be on an empty stomach,and then one more 1/2 hour to eat breakfast. I wait 4hours after taking my naturthroid to have my iron ormulti-vitamin with calcium in it. Also, I startedtaking it sublingually for the last few days withoutchanging my other schedule -- and haven't noticedanything different so far.Although I've had bad symptoms for 10 years and mildsymptoms all my life (I'm 28) I wasn't tested anddiagnosed until 6 months ago (no doctor ever suspectedit) at

which point I was put on Armour beginningdosage 15 mg and have worked my way up since then. Idon't know why I have hypothyroidism except that itruns in my family but was always undiagnosed (probablysince we are not overweight -- probably due to badadrenal issues also which can contribute to weightloss creating a push pull that seems to have kept meabout average, but who knows -- hypo affects everyonedifferently). Now that I know what all the signs andsymptoms are I can see it clearly in my grandfather(he's already passed away though). My great uncle justgot diagnosed. My mother has all the signs andsymptoms but is not treated. Her antibodies were at 13when recently tested. So perhaps I had antibodiesbefore I was taking naturthroid and hydrocortisone --I don't know, but I didn't last time I was tested. Ido know that my mother and I have nutritionaldeficiencies, probably due to malabsorption andhereditary

factors (probably not diet as much becausewe eat super healthy, unless it is just because thesoils are depleted from commercial farming and thetoxic modern world) -- which could contribute tocausing hypo. My selenium was tested and was terriblylow. So yes I do take selenium -- about 460mcg/day. Mylist of medicines and supplements is as follows -- getready, it's long:naturthroid 150mgDHEA 7.5 mg (it was low, get it tested periodically)natural hydrocortisone 20 mg (for adrenals)natural progesterone and pregnenolone cream melatonin, tryptophan, and valerian when I haveinsomnia from the hydrocortisoneashwaganda/licorice/maca/ginseng tincture (foradrenals)chaste tree berry tincture (to regulate cycle)L-glutamine (for better digestion, detox etc)L-tyrosine (for adrenals and thyroid)glycine (detox)Vit C - 6 grams (I know it's a high dose but it helpswith my constipation until the thyroid starts

workingbetter. I do go everyday as long as I take plenty ofC, magnesium, and good diet, but sometimes I stillfeel constipated. C is also because I have highEpstein Barr Virus antibodies which from what I haveheard either means I had mono at some point and it'sgone now or the virus is still active -- I've also hadcandida problems off and on)Floradix floravital iron (for anemia)magnesium (also helps with constipation)B Complex 65 mg/dayB12 lozenges sublingual for better absorption (my B12is low -- was doing shots but switched to lozengesbecause it's more fun)multi-vitaminP5P (activated B6 for cycle, adrenals, waterretention, etc)Primal Defense (a probiotic for intestines andcandida)Cod liver oilborage oilflax oilOmegazyme enzymes, bromelain (for digestion)Lithate (from a hair analysis, my lithium wasextremely low -- this is a tiny dose in supplementform, not the medication that

interferes with thyroid)glutathione lozenges (for detox)Vitamin D (test revealed it was low)Garlic (for virus, candida, and detox)Indium (a trace mineral)Adrenal essence (B6, pantothenic acid, cordycepssinensis, rhodiola, ginseng, PABA)Med Caps T3 (vit A,D,E, iodine, zinc, selenium,guggulsterones, rosemary, ashwaganda) -- I've heardthat those with antibodies should avoid iodine, butsince I don't have any, I take this -- as recommendedby one doctor -- it is only 150 mcg.4 Tbsp aloe vera juice2 Tbsp ground flax seedI just ordered a mixed trace mineral supplement-- ithasn't gotten here yet.I really have no idea how many calories I eat a daybut I can give you an idea of how much I eat.On the advice of one doctor, I try to eat 70 grams ofprotein a day to avoid blood sugar surges and put lessstrain on the adrenals - plus plenty of high qualityfats, veggies and some fruit -- over the course of

theday that might look like: 2-3 eggs, 1 slice of mannabread (high protein sprouted grain) with 1 tbsp flaxoil and sea salt, 2 kiwis, 16-24 oz freshly juicedgreen veggies, a protein bar (not soy), a peach ormango, a 4 oz serving of meat w/ miso soup andveggies, a small serving of another whole grain withvirgin coconut oil (for viruses, candida, thyroid etc)and sea salt, 2-4 Tbsp of nuts or seeds, a banana.I avoid all wheat, dairy, refined sugar, refinedflours usually, all processed food, preservatives,goitrogens and try to eat organic. I'm very fortunateto be able to spend so much time and money on goodfood and supplements, at this time in my life, thanksto the support of many loving people. (This must soundvery privileged to those of you who have to choosebetween medication and food. What can I say, I am veryvery sorry. It is terribly unfair. I do know what itis to be poor -- have been there . .

..)Ok, that's it I think . . . oh, and fortunately Idon't have any metal fillings and have had mostlynatural health care for most of my life so avoidedmany detrimental drugs and vaccinations etc --although I did have to have plenty of antibiotics oneyear which probably made me susceptible to candidaovergrowth.I'm deeply grateful for any suggestions or thoughts onmy case -- the last 5 months have truly been the mostchallenging in my life (minus something very traumaticthat happened to be as a baby) -- I'm ready to get mylife and body back!Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I know it does seem like I am taking way too much

stuff! However, I am being directed by doctors and

going by tests that revealed deficiencies that I had

even with an excellent diet! I'm not taking large

quantities of anything except the Vit C at this point

which is not considered large by some (in fact one

practitioner wanted me to get 50g of Vit C

intravenously for the EBV -- which I'm not doing). . .

and I have definitely kept track of the total amounts

of each thing and made sure that it is not going over

the daily requirement. I intend to get more tests done

though so I make sure I don't OD on anything. I will

think more about what you said though. Thank you,

Marlena

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I know it does seem like I am taking way too much

stuff! However, I am being directed by doctors and

going by tests that revealed deficiencies that I had

even with an excellent diet! I'm not taking large

quantities of anything except the Vit C at this point

which is not considered large by some (in fact one

practitioner wanted me to get 50g of Vit C

intravenously for the EBV -- which I'm not doing). . .

and I have definitely kept track of the total amounts

of each thing and made sure that it is not going over

the daily requirement. I intend to get more tests done

though so I make sure I don't OD on anything. I will

think more about what you said though. Thank you,

Marlena

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I know it does seem like I am taking way too much

stuff! However, I am being directed by doctors and

going by tests that revealed deficiencies that I had

even with an excellent diet! I'm not taking large

quantities of anything except the Vit C at this point

which is not considered large by some (in fact one

practitioner wanted me to get 50g of Vit C

intravenously for the EBV -- which I'm not doing). . .

and I have definitely kept track of the total amounts

of each thing and made sure that it is not going over

the daily requirement. I intend to get more tests done

though so I make sure I don't OD on anything. I will

think more about what you said though. Thank you,

Marlena

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

With taking Ginseng and Ashwangda(sp?) you are taking 2 things that do the same. Both support the immune system The Ashwangda is native american. With using Ginseng, I had swelling from the Licorise Root. I stopped the Licorise Root and increased my ginseng to 200 mg 2x a day - It does help with the afternoon fatigue that way. Because ginseng helps with stress, It works a lot like the B Complex vitamins.

Sending Love, Rita

topper2@... wrote:

Okay.. Marlena.. lets pick you apart too.. and get everyone all confused as to who is being tweaked right now!!! hehehehehe

How are you taking the natural, all one dose, when?

Are you dosing sublingually or swallowing?

If swallowing.. empty stomach?

What is your diagnosis, why are you hypo and taking hormone?

We've already covered goitrogens.....

Conversion..... are you taking Selenium, how much? I think you said you eat often......

Back to how you take it... if you swallow the natural... how is your digestion? Do you have regular movements and digest food okay?

Didn't you say that you chew them a bit before you swallow? Eeeekkk now I can't remember who said that but it just popped into my brain.... I wonder if actually mixing saliva with it makes a difference in the potency once it hits the stomach. Dosing sublingually it doesn't mix with saliva.. it's just tucked under the tongue.

Now, the fun part... list again every thing you are taking... how much and when.....

About how many calories do you consume a day, in how many meals? Rough guestimates you don't have to get out a book and a calculator to look stuff up and keep a tally.

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

I'm having a problem with not being able to includethe original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing whatletter I am responding to . . .Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing getsbetter! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptomthat has interfered with my entire life and leaves mein constant discomfort sometimes to the point of panic(although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and depressed-- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff isterrible, but I can live with it!).I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of onegrain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 inbody weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm on2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with that?Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need morethyroid? I've only had my antibodies checked once and bothtests were <2, normal (this was when I was on

1.5grains). . . I guess I should have them tested again.Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I dohave a pretty good doctor but he's really expensiveand I have gone way over my budget with consultations,out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is anotherway to get info (thank you everyone). I've found thatthe doctors, even the good ones, are only guessingtoo!!I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated adrenal.For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicatedadrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but itwasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them perday my morning cortisol level was a 5, range13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescriptionfrom my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. Ithas brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-midnormal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don'tknow what's going on. Plus I have terrible sideeffects -- water retention, acid

indigestion, andinsomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I geteven more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so hardto figure this all out! I know everyone hereunderstands!Also I don't understand the relationship between theadrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosedthyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has somerole in regulating everything including the adrenals,would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it justthe opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? Ihave heard both explanations and so I'm very confused.Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I nottaking enough, and therefore under-regulating myadrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroidhormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but Ibelieve the explanation for that was that I was in thefirst phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarmphase . . . and since my

thyroid was so low it wasclearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving ithigh on the test. Does anyone know more about this???I know my letters are too long for anyone to have thepatience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep askingthough, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!-- Marlena__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this info Rita! Marlena

--- Rita STAFFORD-BONES

wrote:

>

> Hi Marlena,

>

> With taking Ginseng and Ashwangda(sp?) you are

> taking 2 things that do the same. Both support the

> immune system The Ashwangda is native american. With

> using Ginseng, I had swelling from the Licorise

> Root. I stopped the Licorise Root and increased my

> ginseng to 200 mg 2x a day - It does help with the

> afternoon fatigue that way. Because ginseng helps

> with stress, It works a lot like the B Complex

> vitamins.

>

> Sending Love, Rita

>

>

>

>

> topper2@... wrote:

> Okay.. Marlena.. lets pick you apart too.. and get

> everyone all confused as to who is being tweaked

> right now!!! hehehehehe

>

> How are you taking the natural, all one dose, when?

> Are you dosing sublingually or swallowing?

> If swallowing.. empty stomach?

> What is your diagnosis, why are you hypo and taking

> hormone?

> We've already covered goitrogens.....

> Conversion..... are you taking Selenium, how much? I

> think you said you eat often......

> Back to how you take it... if you swallow the

> natural... how is your digestion? Do you have

> regular movements and digest food okay?

>

> Didn't you say that you chew them a bit before you

> swallow? Eeeekkk now I can't remember who said that

> but it just popped into my brain.... I wonder if

> actually mixing saliva with it makes a difference in

> the potency once it hits the stomach. Dosing

> sublingually it doesn't mix with saliva.. it's just

> tucked under the tongue.

>

> Now, the fun part... list again every thing you are

> taking... how much and when.....

>

> About how many calories do you consume a day, in how

> many meals? Rough guestimates you don't have to get

> out a book and a calculator to look stuff up and

> keep a tally.

>

> Topper ()

>

>

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

> writes:

> I'm having a problem with not being able to include

> the original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing

> what

> letter I am responding to . . .

>

> Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing gets

> better! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptom

> that has interfered with my entire life and leaves

> me

> in constant discomfort sometimes to the point of

> panic

> (although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and

> depressed

> -- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff is

> terrible, but I can live with it!).

>

> I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of

> one

> grain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 in

> body weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4

> equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm

> on

> 2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with

> that?

> Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need more

> thyroid?

>

> I've only had my antibodies checked once and both

> tests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5

> grains). . . I guess I should have them tested

> again.

> Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I do

> have a pretty good doctor but he's really expensive

> and I have gone way over my budget with

> consultations,

> out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is another

> way to get info (thank you everyone). I've found

> that

> the doctors, even the good ones, are only guessing

> too!!

>

> I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated

> adrenal.

>

> For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicated

> adrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but

> it

> wasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them per

> day my morning cortisol level was a 5, range

> 13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescription

> from my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. It

> has brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-mid

> normal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don't

> know what's going on. Plus I have terrible side

> effects -- water retention, acid indigestion, and

> insomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I get

> even more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so

> hard

> to figure this all out! I know everyone here

> understands!

>

> Also I don't understand the relationship between the

> adrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosed

> thyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has

> some

> role in regulating everything including the

> adrenals,

> would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it just

> the opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,

> the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? I

> have heard both explanations and so I'm very

> confused.

> Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I not

> taking enough, and therefore under-regulating my

> adrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroid

> hormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but I

> believe the explanation for that was that I was in

> the

> first phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarm

> phase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it was

> clearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving it

> high on the test. Does anyone know more about

> this???

>

> I know my letters are too long for anyone to have

> the

> patience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep asking

> though, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!

>

> -- Marlena

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this info Rita! Marlena

--- Rita STAFFORD-BONES

wrote:

>

> Hi Marlena,

>

> With taking Ginseng and Ashwangda(sp?) you are

> taking 2 things that do the same. Both support the

> immune system The Ashwangda is native american. With

> using Ginseng, I had swelling from the Licorise

> Root. I stopped the Licorise Root and increased my

> ginseng to 200 mg 2x a day - It does help with the

> afternoon fatigue that way. Because ginseng helps

> with stress, It works a lot like the B Complex

> vitamins.

>

> Sending Love, Rita

>

>

>

>

> topper2@... wrote:

> Okay.. Marlena.. lets pick you apart too.. and get

> everyone all confused as to who is being tweaked

> right now!!! hehehehehe

>

> How are you taking the natural, all one dose, when?

> Are you dosing sublingually or swallowing?

> If swallowing.. empty stomach?

> What is your diagnosis, why are you hypo and taking

> hormone?

> We've already covered goitrogens.....

> Conversion..... are you taking Selenium, how much? I

> think you said you eat often......

> Back to how you take it... if you swallow the

> natural... how is your digestion? Do you have

> regular movements and digest food okay?

>

> Didn't you say that you chew them a bit before you

> swallow? Eeeekkk now I can't remember who said that

> but it just popped into my brain.... I wonder if

> actually mixing saliva with it makes a difference in

> the potency once it hits the stomach. Dosing

> sublingually it doesn't mix with saliva.. it's just

> tucked under the tongue.

>

> Now, the fun part... list again every thing you are

> taking... how much and when.....

>

> About how many calories do you consume a day, in how

> many meals? Rough guestimates you don't have to get

> out a book and a calculator to look stuff up and

> keep a tally.

>

> Topper ()

>

>

> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Marlena

> writes:

> I'm having a problem with not being able to include

> the original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing

> what

> letter I am responding to . . .

>

> Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing gets

> better! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptom

> that has interfered with my entire life and leaves

> me

> in constant discomfort sometimes to the point of

> panic

> (although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and

> depressed

> -- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff is

> terrible, but I can live with it!).

>

> I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of

> one

> grain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 in

> body weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4

> equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm

> on

> 2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with

> that?

> Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need more

> thyroid?

>

> I've only had my antibodies checked once and both

> tests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5

> grains). . . I guess I should have them tested

> again.

> Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I do

> have a pretty good doctor but he's really expensive

> and I have gone way over my budget with

> consultations,

> out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is another

> way to get info (thank you everyone). I've found

> that

> the doctors, even the good ones, are only guessing

> too!!

>

> I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated

> adrenal.

>

> For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicated

> adrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but

> it

> wasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them per

> day my morning cortisol level was a 5, range

> 13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescription

> from my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. It

> has brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-mid

> normal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don't

> know what's going on. Plus I have terrible side

> effects -- water retention, acid indigestion, and

> insomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I get

> even more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so

> hard

> to figure this all out! I know everyone here

> understands!

>

> Also I don't understand the relationship between the

> adrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosed

> thyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has

> some

> role in regulating everything including the

> adrenals,

> would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it just

> the opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,

> the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? I

> have heard both explanations and so I'm very

> confused.

> Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I not

> taking enough, and therefore under-regulating my

> adrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroid

> hormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but I

> believe the explanation for that was that I was in

> the

> first phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarm

> phase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it was

> clearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving it

> high on the test. Does anyone know more about

> this???

>

> I know my letters are too long for anyone to have

> the

> patience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep asking

> though, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!

>

> -- Marlena

>

>

> ---------------------------------

>