Re: air hunger and adrenals vs. thyroid

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

What are the herbs that you are taking for the adrenals? Am I right that you are taking RX not natural with the hydrocortisone? I am on dessicated adrenal which also has some botanicals that are relaxing/soothing to the adrenals. When taking other meds you have to be careful of what other herbs that may not work together with that. It will take some time for the adrenals to recover as they have been under stress for quite awhile before you would notice that things aren't working the way they should. Sorry I am rambling but very tired as the weather has just turned cooler from a week of 100+ so will try to answer better tomorrow if you don't understand hope that I get a good night sleep tonight with it being cooler

Dawn Marlena wrote:

One more question, or maybe 2 : )I have air hunger really bad. Others in this grouphave mentioned it. Have y'all felt releif from thiswhen you got up to the proper dosage of thyroidhormone? If so, how long did it take to get relief --as soon as you were on the proper dosage or after sometime of being on the proper dosage?Also, those of you with adrenal issues, I am wonderingif my low adrenals (if they are still low) arepreventing the thyroid that I am taking (2.5 grainsnow) from kicking in and working. Does anyone know ifthat is possible, or rather unlikely? If I still havethyroid symptoms and signs (like low pulse, scallopedtongue etc) than do I definitely need more thyroiddespite my adrenals? I've been on 20 mg ofhydrocortisone (give or take and a lower dose for oneweek) for 2 months now. Does anyone have

experiencefor how long it takes for the adrenals to recover (Iknow it depends but for you personally?).I'm alsousing herbs that are supposed to support the adrenals,pure sea salt to help raise my crazy low bloodpressure, adequate protein, and watching my bloodsugar etc . . . It seems like my adrenals should haveenough support but I'm so weak and tired still (not apre-thyroid treatment symptom of mine). As far as I can tell there are 2 likely scenarios asto why I am worse since taking thyroid hormones. It iseither that the 2.5 grains (I am now up to) is lessthan what my thyroid was making before I startedtreatment and so now I'm underregulated (I had noantibodies as of 1.5 grains, not sure before that). ORMy stressed and susceptible adrenals are gettingexhausted from the thyroid treatment -- and that iswhy I have been worse since treatment. Any ideas? Iknow I keep putting questions out there -- I

hope I'mnot being annoying, I just really need help!Thanks a lot,Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/

Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

What are the herbs that you are taking for the adrenals? Am I right that you are taking RX not natural with the hydrocortisone? I am on dessicated adrenal which also has some botanicals that are relaxing/soothing to the adrenals. When taking other meds you have to be careful of what other herbs that may not work together with that. It will take some time for the adrenals to recover as they have been under stress for quite awhile before you would notice that things aren't working the way they should. Sorry I am rambling but very tired as the weather has just turned cooler from a week of 100+ so will try to answer better tomorrow if you don't understand hope that I get a good night sleep tonight with it being cooler

Dawn Marlena wrote:

One more question, or maybe 2 : )I have air hunger really bad. Others in this grouphave mentioned it. Have y'all felt releif from thiswhen you got up to the proper dosage of thyroidhormone? If so, how long did it take to get relief --as soon as you were on the proper dosage or after sometime of being on the proper dosage?Also, those of you with adrenal issues, I am wonderingif my low adrenals (if they are still low) arepreventing the thyroid that I am taking (2.5 grainsnow) from kicking in and working. Does anyone know ifthat is possible, or rather unlikely? If I still havethyroid symptoms and signs (like low pulse, scallopedtongue etc) than do I definitely need more thyroiddespite my adrenals? I've been on 20 mg ofhydrocortisone (give or take and a lower dose for oneweek) for 2 months now. Does anyone have

experiencefor how long it takes for the adrenals to recover (Iknow it depends but for you personally?).I'm alsousing herbs that are supposed to support the adrenals,pure sea salt to help raise my crazy low bloodpressure, adequate protein, and watching my bloodsugar etc . . . It seems like my adrenals should haveenough support but I'm so weak and tired still (not apre-thyroid treatment symptom of mine). As far as I can tell there are 2 likely scenarios asto why I am worse since taking thyroid hormones. It iseither that the 2.5 grains (I am now up to) is lessthan what my thyroid was making before I startedtreatment and so now I'm underregulated (I had noantibodies as of 1.5 grains, not sure before that). ORMy stressed and susceptible adrenals are gettingexhausted from the thyroid treatment -- and that iswhy I have been worse since treatment. Any ideas? Iknow I keep putting questions out there -- I

hope I'mnot being annoying, I just really need help!Thanks a lot,Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/

Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

What are the herbs that you are taking for the adrenals? Am I right that you are taking RX not natural with the hydrocortisone? I am on dessicated adrenal which also has some botanicals that are relaxing/soothing to the adrenals. When taking other meds you have to be careful of what other herbs that may not work together with that. It will take some time for the adrenals to recover as they have been under stress for quite awhile before you would notice that things aren't working the way they should. Sorry I am rambling but very tired as the weather has just turned cooler from a week of 100+ so will try to answer better tomorrow if you don't understand hope that I get a good night sleep tonight with it being cooler

Dawn Marlena wrote:

One more question, or maybe 2 : )I have air hunger really bad. Others in this grouphave mentioned it. Have y'all felt releif from thiswhen you got up to the proper dosage of thyroidhormone? If so, how long did it take to get relief --as soon as you were on the proper dosage or after sometime of being on the proper dosage?Also, those of you with adrenal issues, I am wonderingif my low adrenals (if they are still low) arepreventing the thyroid that I am taking (2.5 grainsnow) from kicking in and working. Does anyone know ifthat is possible, or rather unlikely? If I still havethyroid symptoms and signs (like low pulse, scallopedtongue etc) than do I definitely need more thyroiddespite my adrenals? I've been on 20 mg ofhydrocortisone (give or take and a lower dose for oneweek) for 2 months now. Does anyone have

experiencefor how long it takes for the adrenals to recover (Iknow it depends but for you personally?).I'm alsousing herbs that are supposed to support the adrenals,pure sea salt to help raise my crazy low bloodpressure, adequate protein, and watching my bloodsugar etc . . . It seems like my adrenals should haveenough support but I'm so weak and tired still (not apre-thyroid treatment symptom of mine). As far as I can tell there are 2 likely scenarios asto why I am worse since taking thyroid hormones. It iseither that the 2.5 grains (I am now up to) is lessthan what my thyroid was making before I startedtreatment and so now I'm underregulated (I had noantibodies as of 1.5 grains, not sure before that). ORMy stressed and susceptible adrenals are gettingexhausted from the thyroid treatment -- and that iswhy I have been worse since treatment. Any ideas? Iknow I keep putting questions out there -- I

hope I'mnot being annoying, I just really need help!Thanks a lot,Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/

Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news more. Check it out!

[Guest guest]

The air hunger just goes away as your levels come up... my levels were much less than they are now and my breathing corrected.

Adrenals, severely fatigued, can take up to two years to recover... My two year mark was in February.. and my body wasn't ready yet to back off... so I'm set up now to go to the three year mark. Keep in mind I'm using a whole glandular and dosing ONLY first thing in the morning, allowing my glands to function normally the rest of the time.

With Hashi's you need to aim to suppress TSH and thyroid function.. that will keep the antibody activity reduced.. Chances are pretty good that 2 1/2 grain isn't enough to do that....

Remember, Hashi's antibody levels fluctuate, in response to thyroid function... increase thyroid function means increase in antibodies which then kill off more of the gland, reducing thyroid activity/production causing the antibody levels to decrease... They thyroid then attempts to recover and try to produce again, triggering antibodies... this cycle continues until the gland is killed off completely... Suppressing TSH and limiting gland function reduces the severity and frequency of the antibody attacks....

Remind me... you're flying solo right? Are you in the US? You can order labs through Health Check to see where you're at... they can do Free's and antibodies.. and a whole lot more... (www.healthcheckusa.com)

Once at the site, look for your state and see if there is a lab one in your area...

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

One more question, or maybe 2 : )I have air hunger really bad. Others in this grouphave mentioned it. Have y'all felt releif from thiswhen you got up to the proper dosage of thyroidhormone? If so, how long did it take to get relief --as soon as you were on the proper dosage or after sometime of being on the proper dosage?Also, those of you with adrenal issues, I am wonderingif my low adrenals (if they are still low) arepreventing the thyroid that I am taking (2.5 grainsnow) from kicking in and working. Does anyone know ifthat is possible, or rather unlikely? If I still havethyroid symptoms and signs (like low pulse, scallopedtongue etc) than do I definitely need more thyroiddespite my adrenals? I've been on 20 mg ofhydrocortisone (give or take and a lower dose for oneweek) for 2 months now. Does anyone have experiencefor how long it takes for the adrenals to recover (Iknow it depends but for you personally?).I'm alsousing herbs that are supposed to support the adrenals,pure sea salt to help raise my crazy low bloodpressure, adequate protein, and watching my bloodsugar etc . . . It seems like my adrenals should haveenough support but I'm so weak and tired still (not apre-thyroid treatment symptom of mine). As far as I can tell there are 2 likely scenarios asto why I am worse since taking thyroid hormones. It iseither that the 2.5 grains (I am now up to) is lessthan what my thyroid was making before I startedtreatment and so now I'm underregulated (I had noantibodies as of 1.5 grains, not sure before that). ORMy stressed and susceptible adrenals are gettingexhausted from the thyroid treatment -- and that iswhy I have been worse since treatment. Any ideas? Iknow I keep putting questions out there -- I hope I'mnot being annoying, I just really need help!Thanks a lot,Marlena

[Guest guest]

The air hunger just goes away as your levels come up... my levels were much less than they are now and my breathing corrected.

Adrenals, severely fatigued, can take up to two years to recover... My two year mark was in February.. and my body wasn't ready yet to back off... so I'm set up now to go to the three year mark. Keep in mind I'm using a whole glandular and dosing ONLY first thing in the morning, allowing my glands to function normally the rest of the time.

With Hashi's you need to aim to suppress TSH and thyroid function.. that will keep the antibody activity reduced.. Chances are pretty good that 2 1/2 grain isn't enough to do that....

Remember, Hashi's antibody levels fluctuate, in response to thyroid function... increase thyroid function means increase in antibodies which then kill off more of the gland, reducing thyroid activity/production causing the antibody levels to decrease... They thyroid then attempts to recover and try to produce again, triggering antibodies... this cycle continues until the gland is killed off completely... Suppressing TSH and limiting gland function reduces the severity and frequency of the antibody attacks....

Remind me... you're flying solo right? Are you in the US? You can order labs through Health Check to see where you're at... they can do Free's and antibodies.. and a whole lot more... (www.healthcheckusa.com)

Once at the site, look for your state and see if there is a lab one in your area...

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

One more question, or maybe 2 : )I have air hunger really bad. Others in this grouphave mentioned it. Have y'all felt releif from thiswhen you got up to the proper dosage of thyroidhormone? If so, how long did it take to get relief --as soon as you were on the proper dosage or after sometime of being on the proper dosage?Also, those of you with adrenal issues, I am wonderingif my low adrenals (if they are still low) arepreventing the thyroid that I am taking (2.5 grainsnow) from kicking in and working. Does anyone know ifthat is possible, or rather unlikely? If I still havethyroid symptoms and signs (like low pulse, scallopedtongue etc) than do I definitely need more thyroiddespite my adrenals? I've been on 20 mg ofhydrocortisone (give or take and a lower dose for oneweek) for 2 months now. Does anyone have experiencefor how long it takes for the adrenals to recover (Iknow it depends but for you personally?).I'm alsousing herbs that are supposed to support the adrenals,pure sea salt to help raise my crazy low bloodpressure, adequate protein, and watching my bloodsugar etc . . . It seems like my adrenals should haveenough support but I'm so weak and tired still (not apre-thyroid treatment symptom of mine). As far as I can tell there are 2 likely scenarios asto why I am worse since taking thyroid hormones. It iseither that the 2.5 grains (I am now up to) is lessthan what my thyroid was making before I startedtreatment and so now I'm underregulated (I had noantibodies as of 1.5 grains, not sure before that). ORMy stressed and susceptible adrenals are gettingexhausted from the thyroid treatment -- and that iswhy I have been worse since treatment. Any ideas? Iknow I keep putting questions out there -- I hope I'mnot being annoying, I just really need help!Thanks a lot,Marlena

[Guest guest]

The air hunger just goes away as your levels come up... my levels were much less than they are now and my breathing corrected.

Adrenals, severely fatigued, can take up to two years to recover... My two year mark was in February.. and my body wasn't ready yet to back off... so I'm set up now to go to the three year mark. Keep in mind I'm using a whole glandular and dosing ONLY first thing in the morning, allowing my glands to function normally the rest of the time.

With Hashi's you need to aim to suppress TSH and thyroid function.. that will keep the antibody activity reduced.. Chances are pretty good that 2 1/2 grain isn't enough to do that....

Remember, Hashi's antibody levels fluctuate, in response to thyroid function... increase thyroid function means increase in antibodies which then kill off more of the gland, reducing thyroid activity/production causing the antibody levels to decrease... They thyroid then attempts to recover and try to produce again, triggering antibodies... this cycle continues until the gland is killed off completely... Suppressing TSH and limiting gland function reduces the severity and frequency of the antibody attacks....

Remind me... you're flying solo right? Are you in the US? You can order labs through Health Check to see where you're at... they can do Free's and antibodies.. and a whole lot more... (www.healthcheckusa.com)

Once at the site, look for your state and see if there is a lab one in your area...

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 18:23:25 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

One more question, or maybe 2 : )I have air hunger really bad. Others in this grouphave mentioned it. Have y'all felt releif from thiswhen you got up to the proper dosage of thyroidhormone? If so, how long did it take to get relief --as soon as you were on the proper dosage or after sometime of being on the proper dosage?Also, those of you with adrenal issues, I am wonderingif my low adrenals (if they are still low) arepreventing the thyroid that I am taking (2.5 grainsnow) from kicking in and working. Does anyone know ifthat is possible, or rather unlikely? If I still havethyroid symptoms and signs (like low pulse, scallopedtongue etc) than do I definitely need more thyroiddespite my adrenals? I've been on 20 mg ofhydrocortisone (give or take and a lower dose for oneweek) for 2 months now. Does anyone have experiencefor how long it takes for the adrenals to recover (Iknow it depends but for you personally?).I'm alsousing herbs that are supposed to support the adrenals,pure sea salt to help raise my crazy low bloodpressure, adequate protein, and watching my bloodsugar etc . . . It seems like my adrenals should haveenough support but I'm so weak and tired still (not apre-thyroid treatment symptom of mine). As far as I can tell there are 2 likely scenarios asto why I am worse since taking thyroid hormones. It iseither that the 2.5 grains (I am now up to) is lessthan what my thyroid was making before I startedtreatment and so now I'm underregulated (I had noantibodies as of 1.5 grains, not sure before that). ORMy stressed and susceptible adrenals are gettingexhausted from the thyroid treatment -- and that iswhy I have been worse since treatment. Any ideas? Iknow I keep putting questions out there -- I hope I'mnot being annoying, I just really need help!Thanks a lot,Marlena

[Guest guest]

I'm having a problem with not being able to include

the original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing what

letter I am responding to . . .

Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing gets

better! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptom

that has interfered with my entire life and leaves me

in constant discomfort sometimes to the point of panic

(although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and depressed

-- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff is

terrible, but I can live with it!).

I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of one

grain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 in

body weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4

equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm on

2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with that?

Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need more

thyroid?

I've only had my antibodies checked once and both

tests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5

grains). . . I guess I should have them tested again.

Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I do

have a pretty good doctor but he's really expensive

and I have gone way over my budget with consultations,

out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is another

way to get info (thank you everyone). I've found that

the doctors, even the good ones, are only guessing

too!!

I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated adrenal.

For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicated

adrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but it

wasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them per

day my morning cortisol level was a 5, range

13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescription

from my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. It

has brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-mid

normal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don't

know what's going on. Plus I have terrible side

effects -- water retention, acid indigestion, and

insomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I get

even more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so hard

to figure this all out! I know everyone here

understands!

Also I don't understand the relationship between the

adrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosed

thyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has some

role in regulating everything including the adrenals,

would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it just

the opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,

the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? I

have heard both explanations and so I'm very confused.

Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I not

taking enough, and therefore under-regulating my

adrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroid

hormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but I

believe the explanation for that was that I was in the

first phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarm

phase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it was

clearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving it

high on the test. Does anyone know more about this???

I know my letters are too long for anyone to have the

patience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep asking

though, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!

-- Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

[Guest guest]

I'm having a problem with not being able to include

the original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing what

letter I am responding to . . .

Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing gets

better! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptom

that has interfered with my entire life and leaves me

in constant discomfort sometimes to the point of panic

(although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and depressed

-- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff is

terrible, but I can live with it!).

I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of one

grain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 in

body weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4

equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm on

2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with that?

Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need more

thyroid?

I've only had my antibodies checked once and both

tests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5

grains). . . I guess I should have them tested again.

Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I do

have a pretty good doctor but he's really expensive

and I have gone way over my budget with consultations,

out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is another

way to get info (thank you everyone). I've found that

the doctors, even the good ones, are only guessing

too!!

I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated adrenal.

For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicated

adrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but it

wasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them per

day my morning cortisol level was a 5, range

13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescription

from my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. It

has brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-mid

normal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don't

know what's going on. Plus I have terrible side

effects -- water retention, acid indigestion, and

insomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I get

even more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so hard

to figure this all out! I know everyone here

understands!

Also I don't understand the relationship between the

adrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosed

thyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has some

role in regulating everything including the adrenals,

would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it just

the opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,

the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? I

have heard both explanations and so I'm very confused.

Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I not

taking enough, and therefore under-regulating my

adrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroid

hormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but I

believe the explanation for that was that I was in the

first phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarm

phase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it was

clearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving it

high on the test. Does anyone know more about this???

I know my letters are too long for anyone to have the

patience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep asking

though, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!

-- Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn, the herbs I am taking for my adrenals are

licorice, ginseng, maca, ashwaganda -- a mix from

adrenalfatigue.com. Also a supplement that Dr. Shames

(Thyroid Power) recommended called Adrenal Essence. It

has vit B6, patothenic acid, cordyceps sinensis,

rhodiola, ginseng, and PABA in it. As I wrote in

another letter, I tried isocort (a dessicated adrenal

supplement) for awhile, but it wasn't helping enough.

That is why I had to try the prescription natural

hydrocortisone. Natural meaning that it is supposedly

bio-identical to the hormone our own adrenals make and

in a physiological dosage just to supplement what the

adrenals make so as to give them a break. This dosage

is not supposed to suppress the adrenals (like

pharmacological corticosteroids), but that is somewhat

controversial. I don't like taking it at all but I

didn't have any option when my morning cortisol level

was so extremely low. I am just super confused right

now!!! My doctor told me that with my side effects

including water retention (I never had that as a

hypothyroid symptom although I know it can be one), it

probably means I am taking too much hydrocortisone. So

I decreased from 20 mg and over a week I went down all

the way to 5 mg because I still had the same amount of

water retention. I realized that was a stupid mistake

because after 3 days on 5 mg I completely crashed. I

later found out that when you decrease you have to do

it more slowly than that -- like over a month or more.

So now I'm back to 20 mg -- it's been almost 2 weeks

and I'm still more tired than before I decreased the

dosage. I think this means I need it but I'm very

confused about the side effects and whatnot. I'm going

to try the nutri-meds dessicated adrenal and see if

that helps at all . . . Anymore input is extremely

welcome!

Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn, the herbs I am taking for my adrenals are

licorice, ginseng, maca, ashwaganda -- a mix from

adrenalfatigue.com. Also a supplement that Dr. Shames

(Thyroid Power) recommended called Adrenal Essence. It

has vit B6, patothenic acid, cordyceps sinensis,

rhodiola, ginseng, and PABA in it. As I wrote in

another letter, I tried isocort (a dessicated adrenal

supplement) for awhile, but it wasn't helping enough.

That is why I had to try the prescription natural

hydrocortisone. Natural meaning that it is supposedly

bio-identical to the hormone our own adrenals make and

in a physiological dosage just to supplement what the

adrenals make so as to give them a break. This dosage

is not supposed to suppress the adrenals (like

pharmacological corticosteroids), but that is somewhat

controversial. I don't like taking it at all but I

didn't have any option when my morning cortisol level

was so extremely low. I am just super confused right

now!!! My doctor told me that with my side effects

including water retention (I never had that as a

hypothyroid symptom although I know it can be one), it

probably means I am taking too much hydrocortisone. So

I decreased from 20 mg and over a week I went down all

the way to 5 mg because I still had the same amount of

water retention. I realized that was a stupid mistake

because after 3 days on 5 mg I completely crashed. I

later found out that when you decrease you have to do

it more slowly than that -- like over a month or more.

So now I'm back to 20 mg -- it's been almost 2 weeks

and I'm still more tired than before I decreased the

dosage. I think this means I need it but I'm very

confused about the side effects and whatnot. I'm going

to try the nutri-meds dessicated adrenal and see if

that helps at all . . . Anymore input is extremely

welcome!

Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn, the herbs I am taking for my adrenals are

licorice, ginseng, maca, ashwaganda -- a mix from

adrenalfatigue.com. Also a supplement that Dr. Shames

(Thyroid Power) recommended called Adrenal Essence. It

has vit B6, patothenic acid, cordyceps sinensis,

rhodiola, ginseng, and PABA in it. As I wrote in

another letter, I tried isocort (a dessicated adrenal

supplement) for awhile, but it wasn't helping enough.

That is why I had to try the prescription natural

hydrocortisone. Natural meaning that it is supposedly

bio-identical to the hormone our own adrenals make and

in a physiological dosage just to supplement what the

adrenals make so as to give them a break. This dosage

is not supposed to suppress the adrenals (like

pharmacological corticosteroids), but that is somewhat

controversial. I don't like taking it at all but I

didn't have any option when my morning cortisol level

was so extremely low. I am just super confused right

now!!! My doctor told me that with my side effects

including water retention (I never had that as a

hypothyroid symptom although I know it can be one), it

probably means I am taking too much hydrocortisone. So

I decreased from 20 mg and over a week I went down all

the way to 5 mg because I still had the same amount of

water retention. I realized that was a stupid mistake

because after 3 days on 5 mg I completely crashed. I

later found out that when you decrease you have to do

it more slowly than that -- like over a month or more.

So now I'm back to 20 mg -- it's been almost 2 weeks

and I'm still more tired than before I decreased the

dosage. I think this means I need it but I'm very

confused about the side effects and whatnot. I'm going

to try the nutri-meds dessicated adrenal and see if

that helps at all . . . Anymore input is extremely

welcome!

Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

[Guest guest]

Okay.. Marlena.. lets pick you apart too.. and get everyone all confused as to who is being tweaked right now!!! hehehehehe

How are you taking the natural, all one dose, when?

Are you dosing sublingually or swallowing?

If swallowing.. empty stomach?

What is your diagnosis, why are you hypo and taking hormone?

We've already covered goitrogens.....

Conversion..... are you taking Selenium, how much? I think you said you eat often......

Back to how you take it... if you swallow the natural... how is your digestion? Do you have regular movements and digest food okay?

Didn't you say that you chew them a bit before you swallow? Eeeekkk now I can't remember who said that but it just popped into my brain.... I wonder if actually mixing saliva with it makes a difference in the potency once it hits the stomach. Dosing sublingually it doesn't mix with saliva.. it's just tucked under the tongue.

Now, the fun part... list again every thing you are taking... how much and when.....

About how many calories do you consume a day, in how many meals? Rough guestimates you don't have to get out a book and a calculator to look stuff up and keep a tally.

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

I'm having a problem with not being able to includethe original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing whatletter I am responding to . . .Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing getsbetter! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptomthat has interfered with my entire life and leaves mein constant discomfort sometimes to the point of panic(although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and depressed-- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff isterrible, but I can live with it!).I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of onegrain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 inbody weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm on2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with that?Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need morethyroid? I've only had my antibodies checked once and bothtests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5grains). . . I guess I should have them tested again.Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I dohave a pretty good doctor but he's really expensiveand I have gone way over my budget with consultations,out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is anotherway to get info (thank you everyone). I've found thatthe doctors, even the good ones, are only guessingtoo!!I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated adrenal.For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicatedadrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but itwasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them perday my morning cortisol level was a 5, range13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescriptionfrom my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. Ithas brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-midnormal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don'tknow what's going on. Plus I have terrible sideeffects -- water retention, acid indigestion, andinsomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I geteven more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so hardto figure this all out! I know everyone hereunderstands!Also I don't understand the relationship between theadrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosedthyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has somerole in regulating everything including the adrenals,would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it justthe opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? Ihave heard both explanations and so I'm very confused.Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I nottaking enough, and therefore under-regulating myadrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroidhormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but Ibelieve the explanation for that was that I was in thefirst phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarmphase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it wasclearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving ithigh on the test. Does anyone know more about this???I know my letters are too long for anyone to have thepatience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep askingthough, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!-- Marlena

[Guest guest]

Okay.. Marlena.. lets pick you apart too.. and get everyone all confused as to who is being tweaked right now!!! hehehehehe

How are you taking the natural, all one dose, when?

Are you dosing sublingually or swallowing?

If swallowing.. empty stomach?

What is your diagnosis, why are you hypo and taking hormone?

We've already covered goitrogens.....

Conversion..... are you taking Selenium, how much? I think you said you eat often......

Back to how you take it... if you swallow the natural... how is your digestion? Do you have regular movements and digest food okay?

Didn't you say that you chew them a bit before you swallow? Eeeekkk now I can't remember who said that but it just popped into my brain.... I wonder if actually mixing saliva with it makes a difference in the potency once it hits the stomach. Dosing sublingually it doesn't mix with saliva.. it's just tucked under the tongue.

Now, the fun part... list again every thing you are taking... how much and when.....

About how many calories do you consume a day, in how many meals? Rough guestimates you don't have to get out a book and a calculator to look stuff up and keep a tally.

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

I'm having a problem with not being able to includethe original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing whatletter I am responding to . . .Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing getsbetter! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptomthat has interfered with my entire life and leaves mein constant discomfort sometimes to the point of panic(although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and depressed-- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff isterrible, but I can live with it!).I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of onegrain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 inbody weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm on2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with that?Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need morethyroid? I've only had my antibodies checked once and bothtests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5grains). . . I guess I should have them tested again.Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I dohave a pretty good doctor but he's really expensiveand I have gone way over my budget with consultations,out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is anotherway to get info (thank you everyone). I've found thatthe doctors, even the good ones, are only guessingtoo!!I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated adrenal.For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicatedadrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but itwasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them perday my morning cortisol level was a 5, range13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescriptionfrom my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. Ithas brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-midnormal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don'tknow what's going on. Plus I have terrible sideeffects -- water retention, acid indigestion, andinsomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I geteven more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so hardto figure this all out! I know everyone hereunderstands!Also I don't understand the relationship between theadrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosedthyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has somerole in regulating everything including the adrenals,would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it justthe opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? Ihave heard both explanations and so I'm very confused.Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I nottaking enough, and therefore under-regulating myadrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroidhormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but Ibelieve the explanation for that was that I was in thefirst phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarmphase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it wasclearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving ithigh on the test. Does anyone know more about this???I know my letters are too long for anyone to have thepatience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep askingthough, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!-- Marlena

[Guest guest]

Okay.. Marlena.. lets pick you apart too.. and get everyone all confused as to who is being tweaked right now!!! hehehehehe

How are you taking the natural, all one dose, when?

Are you dosing sublingually or swallowing?

If swallowing.. empty stomach?

What is your diagnosis, why are you hypo and taking hormone?

We've already covered goitrogens.....

Conversion..... are you taking Selenium, how much? I think you said you eat often......

Back to how you take it... if you swallow the natural... how is your digestion? Do you have regular movements and digest food okay?

Didn't you say that you chew them a bit before you swallow? Eeeekkk now I can't remember who said that but it just popped into my brain.... I wonder if actually mixing saliva with it makes a difference in the potency once it hits the stomach. Dosing sublingually it doesn't mix with saliva.. it's just tucked under the tongue.

Now, the fun part... list again every thing you are taking... how much and when.....

About how many calories do you consume a day, in how many meals? Rough guestimates you don't have to get out a book and a calculator to look stuff up and keep a tally.

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 21:58:34 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

I'm having a problem with not being able to includethe original text so I'm sorry if it is confusing whatletter I am responding to . . .Topper, it's great to hear that the breathing getsbetter! I can't wait. This is my most severe symptomthat has interfered with my entire life and leaves mein constant discomfort sometimes to the point of panic(although now that I'm weak, exhausted, and depressed-- that's pretty bad too -- the other stuff isterrible, but I can live with it!).I weigh 120 lbs, then according to the estimate of onegrain = 74 mcg T4 and the rough suggestion of T4 inbody weight, then I would only need 120 mcg (T4equivalent) which would be less than 2 grains?? I'm on2.5 and feeling no improvement!!! What's up with that?Is it my adrenals or do you suspect I need morethyroid? I've only had my antibodies checked once and bothtests were <2, normal (this was when I was on 1.5grains). . . I guess I should have them tested again.Thanks for the tip about healthcheckusa.com!!! I dohave a pretty good doctor but he's really expensiveand I have gone way over my budget with consultations,out of desperation! I'm so grateful there is anotherway to get info (thank you everyone). I've found thatthe doctors, even the good ones, are only guessingtoo!!I will also try the nutri-meds for dessicated adrenal.For awhile I was taking isocort (also a dessicatedadrenal product), which Dr. Lowe recommended -- but itwasn't doing enough for me (on many many of them perday my morning cortisol level was a 5, range13-24!!)-- that is why I had to get a prescriptionfrom my local doctor for natural hydrocortisone. Ithas brought my saliva cortisol levels up to low-midnormal, but I still feel crappy. That is why I don'tknow what's going on. Plus I have terrible sideeffects -- water retention, acid indigestion, andinsomnia. But when I try to lower the dosage I geteven more tired . . . grrrrr. Confusion! It is so hardto figure this all out! I know everyone hereunderstands!Also I don't understand the relationship between theadrenals and the thyroid. If one is underdosedthyroid-wise for instance, and if the thyroid has somerole in regulating everything including the adrenals,would that lower the adrenals as well? Or is it justthe opposite, where the more the thyroid is working,the harder the adrenals have to work to keep up? Ihave heard both explanations and so I'm very confused.Is my 2.5 grains burning my adrenals or am I nottaking enough, and therefore under-regulating myadrenals as well? Before I was treated with thyroidhormone, my cortisol levels were high-normal, but Ibelieve the explanation for that was that I was in thefirst phase of adrenal fatigue which is the alarmphase . . . and since my thyroid was so low it wasclearing the cortisol out at a slow pace, leaving ithigh on the test. Does anyone know more about this???I know my letters are too long for anyone to have thepatience with -- I'm sorry!! I'll just keep askingthough, if you don't mind : ) Must find answers!-- Marlena

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

Still researching but the licorice should only be taken for more than 7 days and is not a long term thing as it will make the BP go up and ginseng does the same thing and it also has iron in it. So if you are taking within 4 hours of thyroid meds then it is detrimental. From what I can see at the moment what you are taking seems to be stuff that will make you feel better in the short term but does not mean that it is healing the adrenal glands which is what they need when they have been stressed for a long time. I went to Dr. s site and find that he is saying to take the adrenal supplements all through the day and my understanding is that the adrenals fluctuate from high in the morning to lower in the evening. [Hope someone will jump in and confirm or correct if this is wrong.] So the pm slump may not be just the adrenals but the thyroid also and treating one without making note of the other could be upsetting the balance of

one or the other or both. IMHO it would be good to get the dessicated thyroid and adrenal and work on getting them up to an optimal level and see how you are feeling then. Stimulating a sick gland will only lead to more complications and could be causing some of the reactions that you are having. On reading some of the things saw that one of them could cause retention thought I could remember so didn't write down what it was but forgot and now I can't find it. Will keep looking though.

Dawn Marlena wrote:

Hi Dawn, the herbs I am taking for my adrenals arelicorice, ginseng, maca, ashwaganda -- a mix fromadrenalfatigue.com. Also a supplement that Dr. Shames(Thyroid Power) recommended called Adrenal Essence. Ithas vit B6, patothenic acid, cordyceps sinensis,rhodiola, ginseng, and PABA in it. As I wrote inanother letter, I tried isocort (a dessicated adrenalsupplement) for awhile, but it wasn't helping enough.That is why I had to try the prescription naturalhydrocortisone. Natural meaning that it is supposedlybio-identical to the hormone our own adrenals make andin a physiological dosage just to supplement what theadrenals make so as to give them a break. This dosageis not supposed to suppress the adrenals (likepharmacological corticosteroids), but that is somewhatcontroversial. I don't like taking it at all but Ididn't

have any option when my morning cortisol levelwas so extremely low. I am just super confused rightnow!!! My doctor told me that with my side effectsincluding water retention (I never had that as ahypothyroid symptom although I know it can be one), itprobably means I am taking too much hydrocortisone. SoI decreased from 20 mg and over a week I went down allthe way to 5 mg because I still had the same amount ofwater retention. I realized that was a stupid mistakebecause after 3 days on 5 mg I completely crashed. Ilater found out that when you decrease you have to doit more slowly than that -- like over a month or more.So now I'm back to 20 mg -- it's been almost 2 weeksand I'm still more tired than before I decreased thedosage. I think this means I need it but I'm veryconfused about the side effects and whatnot. I'm goingto try the nutri-meds dessicated adrenal and see ifthat helps at all . . . Anymore input is

extremelywelcome!Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

Still researching but the licorice should only be taken for more than 7 days and is not a long term thing as it will make the BP go up and ginseng does the same thing and it also has iron in it. So if you are taking within 4 hours of thyroid meds then it is detrimental. From what I can see at the moment what you are taking seems to be stuff that will make you feel better in the short term but does not mean that it is healing the adrenal glands which is what they need when they have been stressed for a long time. I went to Dr. s site and find that he is saying to take the adrenal supplements all through the day and my understanding is that the adrenals fluctuate from high in the morning to lower in the evening. [Hope someone will jump in and confirm or correct if this is wrong.] So the pm slump may not be just the adrenals but the thyroid also and treating one without making note of the other could be upsetting the balance of

one or the other or both. IMHO it would be good to get the dessicated thyroid and adrenal and work on getting them up to an optimal level and see how you are feeling then. Stimulating a sick gland will only lead to more complications and could be causing some of the reactions that you are having. On reading some of the things saw that one of them could cause retention thought I could remember so didn't write down what it was but forgot and now I can't find it. Will keep looking though.

Dawn Marlena wrote:

Hi Dawn, the herbs I am taking for my adrenals arelicorice, ginseng, maca, ashwaganda -- a mix fromadrenalfatigue.com. Also a supplement that Dr. Shames(Thyroid Power) recommended called Adrenal Essence. Ithas vit B6, patothenic acid, cordyceps sinensis,rhodiola, ginseng, and PABA in it. As I wrote inanother letter, I tried isocort (a dessicated adrenalsupplement) for awhile, but it wasn't helping enough.That is why I had to try the prescription naturalhydrocortisone. Natural meaning that it is supposedlybio-identical to the hormone our own adrenals make andin a physiological dosage just to supplement what theadrenals make so as to give them a break. This dosageis not supposed to suppress the adrenals (likepharmacological corticosteroids), but that is somewhatcontroversial. I don't like taking it at all but Ididn't

have any option when my morning cortisol levelwas so extremely low. I am just super confused rightnow!!! My doctor told me that with my side effectsincluding water retention (I never had that as ahypothyroid symptom although I know it can be one), itprobably means I am taking too much hydrocortisone. SoI decreased from 20 mg and over a week I went down allthe way to 5 mg because I still had the same amount ofwater retention. I realized that was a stupid mistakebecause after 3 days on 5 mg I completely crashed. Ilater found out that when you decrease you have to doit more slowly than that -- like over a month or more.So now I'm back to 20 mg -- it's been almost 2 weeksand I'm still more tired than before I decreased thedosage. I think this means I need it but I'm veryconfused about the side effects and whatnot. I'm goingto try the nutri-meds dessicated adrenal and see ifthat helps at all . . . Anymore input is

extremelywelcome!Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

Still researching but the licorice should only be taken for more than 7 days and is not a long term thing as it will make the BP go up and ginseng does the same thing and it also has iron in it. So if you are taking within 4 hours of thyroid meds then it is detrimental. From what I can see at the moment what you are taking seems to be stuff that will make you feel better in the short term but does not mean that it is healing the adrenal glands which is what they need when they have been stressed for a long time. I went to Dr. s site and find that he is saying to take the adrenal supplements all through the day and my understanding is that the adrenals fluctuate from high in the morning to lower in the evening. [Hope someone will jump in and confirm or correct if this is wrong.] So the pm slump may not be just the adrenals but the thyroid also and treating one without making note of the other could be upsetting the balance of

one or the other or both. IMHO it would be good to get the dessicated thyroid and adrenal and work on getting them up to an optimal level and see how you are feeling then. Stimulating a sick gland will only lead to more complications and could be causing some of the reactions that you are having. On reading some of the things saw that one of them could cause retention thought I could remember so didn't write down what it was but forgot and now I can't find it. Will keep looking though.

Dawn Marlena wrote:

Hi Dawn, the herbs I am taking for my adrenals arelicorice, ginseng, maca, ashwaganda -- a mix fromadrenalfatigue.com. Also a supplement that Dr. Shames(Thyroid Power) recommended called Adrenal Essence. Ithas vit B6, patothenic acid, cordyceps sinensis,rhodiola, ginseng, and PABA in it. As I wrote inanother letter, I tried isocort (a dessicated adrenalsupplement) for awhile, but it wasn't helping enough.That is why I had to try the prescription naturalhydrocortisone. Natural meaning that it is supposedlybio-identical to the hormone our own adrenals make andin a physiological dosage just to supplement what theadrenals make so as to give them a break. This dosageis not supposed to suppress the adrenals (likepharmacological corticosteroids), but that is somewhatcontroversial. I don't like taking it at all but Ididn't

have any option when my morning cortisol levelwas so extremely low. I am just super confused rightnow!!! My doctor told me that with my side effectsincluding water retention (I never had that as ahypothyroid symptom although I know it can be one), itprobably means I am taking too much hydrocortisone. SoI decreased from 20 mg and over a week I went down allthe way to 5 mg because I still had the same amount ofwater retention. I realized that was a stupid mistakebecause after 3 days on 5 mg I completely crashed. Ilater found out that when you decrease you have to doit more slowly than that -- like over a month or more.So now I'm back to 20 mg -- it's been almost 2 weeksand I'm still more tired than before I decreased thedosage. I think this means I need it but I'm veryconfused about the side effects and whatnot. I'm goingto try the nutri-meds dessicated adrenal and see ifthat helps at all . . . Anymore input is

extremelywelcome!Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Ok, Topper, thank you for picking me apart -- that's

exactly what I want!!

Right now, I take one dose of naturthroid. I was

chewing it up but it was too small to actually swallow

so I think most of it absorbed through my mouth not my

stomach. However, I took it on an empty stomach

anyway, then waited 1/2 hour to take a couple

supplements that also need to be on an empty stomach,

and then one more 1/2 hour to eat breakfast. I wait 4

hours after taking my naturthroid to have my iron or

multi-vitamin with calcium in it. Also, I started

taking it sublingually for the last few days without

changing my other schedule -- and haven't noticed

anything different so far.

Although I've had bad symptoms for 10 years and mild

symptoms all my life (I'm 28) I wasn't tested and

diagnosed until 6 months ago (no doctor ever suspected

it) at which point I was put on Armour beginning

dosage 15 mg and have worked my way up since then. I

don't know why I have hypothyroidism except that it

runs in my family but was always undiagnosed (probably

since we are not overweight -- probably due to bad

adrenal issues also which can contribute to weight

loss creating a push pull that seems to have kept me

about average, but who knows -- hypo affects everyone

differently). Now that I know what all the signs and

symptoms are I can see it clearly in my grandfather

(he's already passed away though). My great uncle just

got diagnosed. My mother has all the signs and

symptoms but is not treated. Her antibodies were at 13

when recently tested. So perhaps I had antibodies

before I was taking naturthroid and hydrocortisone --

I don't know, but I didn't last time I was tested. I

do know that my mother and I have nutritional

deficiencies, probably due to malabsorption and

hereditary factors (probably not diet as much because

we eat super healthy, unless it is just because the

soils are depleted from commercial farming and the

toxic modern world) -- which could contribute to

causing hypo. My selenium was tested and was terribly

low. So yes I do take selenium -- about 460mcg/day. My

list of medicines and supplements is as follows -- get

ready, it's long:

naturthroid 150mg

DHEA 7.5 mg (it was low, get it tested periodically)

natural hydrocortisone 20 mg (for adrenals)

natural progesterone and pregnenolone cream

melatonin, tryptophan, and valerian when I have

insomnia from the hydrocortisone

ashwaganda/licorice/maca/ginseng tincture (for

adrenals)

chaste tree berry tincture (to regulate cycle)

L-glutamine (for better digestion, detox etc)

L-tyrosine (for adrenals and thyroid)

glycine (detox)

Vit C - 6 grams (I know it's a high dose but it helps

with my constipation until the thyroid starts working

better. I do go everyday as long as I take plenty of

C, magnesium, and good diet, but sometimes I still

feel constipated. C is also because I have high

Epstein Barr Virus antibodies which from what I have

heard either means I had mono at some point and it's

gone now or the virus is still active -- I've also had

candida problems off and on)

Floradix floravital iron (for anemia)

magnesium (also helps with constipation)

B Complex 65 mg/day

B12 lozenges sublingual for better absorption (my B12

is low -- was doing shots but switched to lozenges

because it's more fun)

multi-vitamin

P5P (activated B6 for cycle, adrenals, water

retention, etc)

Primal Defense (a probiotic for intestines and

candida)

Cod liver oil

borage oil

flax oil

Omegazyme enzymes, bromelain (for digestion)

Lithate (from a hair analysis, my lithium was

extremely low -- this is a tiny dose in supplement

form, not the medication that interferes with thyroid)

glutathione lozenges (for detox)

Vitamin D (test revealed it was low)

Garlic (for virus, candida, and detox)

Indium (a trace mineral)

Adrenal essence (B6, pantothenic acid, cordyceps

sinensis, rhodiola, ginseng, PABA)

Med Caps T3 (vit A,D,E, iodine, zinc, selenium,

guggulsterones, rosemary, ashwaganda) -- I've heard

that those with antibodies should avoid iodine, but

since I don't have any, I take this -- as recommended

by one doctor -- it is only 150 mcg.

4 Tbsp aloe vera juice

2 Tbsp ground flax seed

I just ordered a mixed trace mineral supplement-- it

hasn't gotten here yet.

I really have no idea how many calories I eat a day

but I can give you an idea of how much I eat.

On the advice of one doctor, I try to eat 70 grams of

protein a day to avoid blood sugar surges and put less

strain on the adrenals - plus plenty of high quality

fats, veggies and some fruit -- over the course of the

day that might look like: 2-3 eggs, 1 slice of manna

bread (high protein sprouted grain) with 1 tbsp flax

oil and sea salt, 2 kiwis, 16-24 oz freshly juiced

green veggies, a protein bar (not soy), a peach or

mango, a 4 oz serving of meat w/ miso soup and

veggies, a small serving of another whole grain with

virgin coconut oil (for viruses, candida, thyroid etc)

and sea salt, 2-4 Tbsp of nuts or seeds, a banana.

I avoid all wheat, dairy, refined sugar, refined

flours usually, all processed food, preservatives,

goitrogens and try to eat organic. I'm very fortunate

to be able to spend so much time and money on good

food and supplements, at this time in my life, thanks

to the support of many loving people. (This must sound

very privileged to those of you who have to choose

between medication and food. What can I say, I am very

very sorry. It is terribly unfair. I do know what it

is to be poor -- have been there . . .)

Ok, that's it I think . . . oh, and fortunately I

don't have any metal fillings and have had mostly

natural health care for most of my life so avoided

many detrimental drugs and vaccinations etc --

although I did have to have plenty of antibiotics one

year which probably made me susceptible to candida

overgrowth.

I'm deeply grateful for any suggestions or thoughts on

my case -- the last 5 months have truly been the most

challenging in my life (minus something very traumatic

that happened to be as a baby) -- I'm ready to get my

life and body back!

Marlena

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Thanks very much for your input. Regarding the

licorice and ginseng, I have been told that since my

blood pressure is so low (and has been all my life,

and since thyroid treatment and months on the licorice

remains between 102-108, top number) -- it is not only

ok but very good for me to continue to use licorice

and good quality salt to raise it. Strangely with the

recent side effect of water retention, I thought I

should stay off the licorice and salt but my blood

pressure was still low -- the same as without water

retention?? When I lowered the hydrocortisone and

stayed off the licorice and salt for a week, my water

retention stayed the same, but I felt much worse -- in

response one doctor said that water retention can be

from too much cortisol (but didn't seem to be the case

with me because of how bad I felt when I lowered my

dose) or it can be from too little thyroid or too

little progesterone -- all possibilities -- but

strange that I never had this symptom before thyroid

treatment . . . unless I'm still more under-regulated

than I was on my own -- even on 2.5 grains??

What I hear you saying though is that nothing but the

dessicated adrenal actually rebuilds the adrenals --

so although I may be giving them a boost now, I am not

necessarily helping to heal them. Is that right?

Thanks!

Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Thanks very much for your input. Regarding the

licorice and ginseng, I have been told that since my

blood pressure is so low (and has been all my life,

and since thyroid treatment and months on the licorice

remains between 102-108, top number) -- it is not only

ok but very good for me to continue to use licorice

and good quality salt to raise it. Strangely with the

recent side effect of water retention, I thought I

should stay off the licorice and salt but my blood

pressure was still low -- the same as without water

retention?? When I lowered the hydrocortisone and

stayed off the licorice and salt for a week, my water

retention stayed the same, but I felt much worse -- in

response one doctor said that water retention can be

from too much cortisol (but didn't seem to be the case

with me because of how bad I felt when I lowered my

dose) or it can be from too little thyroid or too

little progesterone -- all possibilities -- but

strange that I never had this symptom before thyroid

treatment . . . unless I'm still more under-regulated

than I was on my own -- even on 2.5 grains??

What I hear you saying though is that nothing but the

dessicated adrenal actually rebuilds the adrenals --

so although I may be giving them a boost now, I am not

necessarily helping to heal them. Is that right?

Thanks!

Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html

[Guest guest]

Oh Dawn, I forgot to respond to a couple of other

things you mentioned. I don't follow Dr 's (not

the same from 's Thyroid Syndrome)

adrenal protocol but I like that one herbal product he

carries because it is a combo of organic herbs. I do

only use the licorice in the morning or first part of

the day, because yes, as you said cortisol output is

naturally much higher in the morning and decreases

throughout the day until it is very low at night. The

other herbs are supposed to be " adaptogens " which

should help regulate one's cortisol depending on

whether it is too high or too low. I did not know that

ginseng had iron in it so thank you for that info --

however since I do my natural thyroid sublingually,

from what I'm hearing, it should be ok . . . if I take

the herbs say 1/2 hour later?? I bet the iron content

is pretty low compared to an iron supplement anyway,

but that might not matter.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness on this -- if you have

any more info I'm all ears,

marlena

__________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Oh Dawn, I forgot to respond to a couple of other

things you mentioned. I don't follow Dr 's (not

the same from 's Thyroid Syndrome)

adrenal protocol but I like that one herbal product he

carries because it is a combo of organic herbs. I do

only use the licorice in the morning or first part of

the day, because yes, as you said cortisol output is

naturally much higher in the morning and decreases

throughout the day until it is very low at night. The

other herbs are supposed to be " adaptogens " which

should help regulate one's cortisol depending on

whether it is too high or too low. I did not know that

ginseng had iron in it so thank you for that info --

however since I do my natural thyroid sublingually,

from what I'm hearing, it should be ok . . . if I take

the herbs say 1/2 hour later?? I bet the iron content

is pretty low compared to an iron supplement anyway,

but that might not matter.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness on this -- if you have

any more info I'm all ears,

marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

[Guest guest]

Oh Dawn, I forgot to respond to a couple of other

things you mentioned. I don't follow Dr 's (not

the same from 's Thyroid Syndrome)

adrenal protocol but I like that one herbal product he

carries because it is a combo of organic herbs. I do

only use the licorice in the morning or first part of

the day, because yes, as you said cortisol output is

naturally much higher in the morning and decreases

throughout the day until it is very low at night. The

other herbs are supposed to be " adaptogens " which

should help regulate one's cortisol depending on

whether it is too high or too low. I did not know that

ginseng had iron in it so thank you for that info --

however since I do my natural thyroid sublingually,

from what I'm hearing, it should be ok . . . if I take

the herbs say 1/2 hour later?? I bet the iron content

is pretty low compared to an iron supplement anyway,

but that might not matter.

Thanks for your thoughtfulness on this -- if you have

any more info I'm all ears,

marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

[Guest guest]

Okay.. nit picking.. vitamin C....

Consider this:

It has been shown in studies that 200 mg of ascorbic acid has no effect on natrium seleniumate (50g). On the other hand, it even appears to improve the bio-accessibility of selenium when ingested at meal times. There is no evidence that food factors have any influence on selenium absorption, an issue that should be looked into in further studies. However, when a large dose of ascorbic acid (1g) is taken together with selenium prior to a meal, then the selenium is not absorbed. The crucial difference lies in taking them at meal times, then will the ascorbic acid not affect the absorption of selenium.On the topic of selenium absorption, it also appears that the nature of selenium itself makes a difference. Several studies have shown that organic selenium can be almost totally absorbed by the body whereas the inorganic one is variable, generally over 50%. Organic selenium is selenium that is incorporated in amino acids such as methionin (seleno-methionin) or cystein (seleno-cystein). The body thus recognizes the selenium as amino acids and since amino acids are almost totally absorbed by the body, it means that the organic selenium is also absorbed in a camouflaged fashion. It is important to be aware of this, since otherwise an inadvertent overdosage of selenium could occur.

Tell me your dosing for both the vitamin C and the Selenium how much of each how often....

The Selenium... is it coming as part of the Med Caps T3? Check the label.. there are two forms of Selenium.. one that works and one that doesn't .

No need to apologize for having access to things that some of us don't.. we just have to learn to work with what we have available to us.... I have a gazillion recipes for turkey burger and rice!!!! *wink* AND you have not lived until you had my very own garlic and herb bread, sliced, soaked in egg and fried in butter to make french toast.. then covered with maple syrup..... It's to DIE for. I found that taste treat out of desperation one night... Or a cheesy garlic cream sauce over home made herb fettucine. Both dishes come out to about 15 cents for a mini meal portion.... are delicious.. and with proper vitamin chasers are nutritious... contain enough protein to not trigger a carb attack in me... did I say they taste REALLY good?

The garlic and herb french toast freezes really well.. so you can do a batch of it and freeze it... and then have proper portions and not pig out.....

heheheheh I love to cook and bake....

I'm now trying to perfect home made ravioli.. I finally have the filling that I like.. it's a mixture of, you guessed it, turkey burger... and oatmeal, with tomato paste... and spices, of course.. it's just the right texture and consistency for the filling.. but I don't have a ravioli maker... I have to do each one by hand.... .

Drats.. shutting up now... I'm making myself hungry!!! hehehehehehe

Topper ()

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:42:47 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Ok, Topper, thank you for picking me apart -- that'sexactly what I want!!Right now, I take one dose of naturthroid. I waschewing it up but it was too small to actually swallowso I think most of it absorbed through my mouth not mystomach. However, I took it on an empty stomachanyway, then waited 1/2 hour to take a couplesupplements that also need to be on an empty stomach,and then one more 1/2 hour to eat breakfast. I wait 4hours after taking my naturthroid to have my iron ormulti-vitamin with calcium in it. Also, I startedtaking it sublingually for the last few days withoutchanging my other schedule -- and haven't noticedanything different so far.Although I've had bad symptoms for 10 years and mildsymptoms all my life (I'm 28) I wasn't tested anddiagnosed until 6 months ago (no doctor ever suspectedit) at which point I was put on Armour beginningdosage 15 mg and have worked my way up since then. Idon't know why I have hypothyroidism except that itruns in my family but was always undiagnosed (probablysince we are not overweight -- probably due to badadrenal issues also which can contribute to weightloss creating a push pull that seems to have kept meabout average, but who knows -- hypo affects everyonedifferently). Now that I know what all the signs andsymptoms are I can see it clearly in my grandfather(he's already passed away though). My great uncle justgot diagnosed. My mother has all the signs andsymptoms but is not treated. Her antibodies were at 13when recently tested. So perhaps I had antibodiesbefore I was taking naturthroid and hydrocortisone --I don't know, but I didn't last time I was tested. Ido know that my mother and I have nutritionaldeficiencies, probably due to malabsorption andhereditary factors (probably not diet as much becausewe eat super healthy, unless it is just because thesoils are depleted from commercial farming and thetoxic modern world) -- which could contribute tocausing hypo. My selenium was tested and was terriblylow. So yes I do take selenium -- about 460mcg/day. Mylist of medicines and supplements is as follows -- getready, it's long:naturthroid 150mgDHEA 7.5 mg (it was low, get it tested periodically)natural hydrocortisone 20 mg (for adrenals)natural progesterone and pregnenolone cream melatonin, tryptophan, and valerian when I haveinsomnia from the hydrocortisoneashwaganda/licorice/maca/ginseng tincture (foradrenals)chaste tree berry tincture (to regulate cycle)L-glutamine (for better digestion, detox etc)L-tyrosine (for adrenals and thyroid)glycine (detox)Vit C - 6 grams (I know it's a high dose but it helpswith my constipation until the thyroid starts workingbetter. I do go everyday as long as I take plenty ofC, magnesium, and good diet, but sometimes I stillfeel constipated. C is also because I have highEpstein Barr Virus antibodies which from what I haveheard either means I had mono at some point and it'sgone now or the virus is still active -- I've also hadcandida problems off and on)Floradix floravital iron (for anemia)magnesium (also helps with constipation)B Complex 65 mg/dayB12 lozenges sublingual for better absorption (my B12is low -- was doing shots but switched to lozengesbecause it's more fun)multi-vitaminP5P (activated B6 for cycle, adrenals, waterretention, etc)Primal Defense (a probiotic for intestines andcandida)Cod liver oilborage oilflax oilOmegazyme enzymes, bromelain (for digestion)Lithate (from a hair analysis, my lithium wasextremely low -- this is a tiny dose in supplementform, not the medication that interferes with thyroid)glutathione lozenges (for detox)Vitamin D (test revealed it was low)Garlic (for virus, candida, and detox)Indium (a trace mineral)Adrenal essence (B6, pantothenic acid, cordycepssinensis, rhodiola, ginseng, PABA)Med Caps T3 (vit A,D,E, iodine, zinc, selenium,guggulsterones, rosemary, ashwaganda) -- I've heardthat those with antibodies should avoid iodine, butsince I don't have any, I take this -- as recommendedby one doctor -- it is only 150 mcg.4 Tbsp aloe vera juice2 Tbsp ground flax seedI just ordered a mixed trace mineral supplement-- ithasn't gotten here yet.I really have no idea how many calories I eat a daybut I can give you an idea of how much I eat.On the advice of one doctor, I try to eat 70 grams ofprotein a day to avoid blood sugar surges and put lessstrain on the adrenals - plus plenty of high qualityfats, veggies and some fruit -- over the course of theday that might look like: 2-3 eggs, 1 slice of mannabread (high protein sprouted grain) with 1 tbsp flaxoil and sea salt, 2 kiwis, 16-24 oz freshly juicedgreen veggies, a protein bar (not soy), a peach ormango, a 4 oz serving of meat w/ miso soup andveggies, a small serving of another whole grain withvirgin coconut oil (for viruses, candida, thyroid etc)and sea salt, 2-4 Tbsp of nuts or seeds, a banana.I avoid all wheat, dairy, refined sugar, refinedflours usually, all processed food, preservatives,goitrogens and try to eat organic. I'm very fortunateto be able to spend so much time and money on goodfood and supplements, at this time in my life, thanksto the support of many loving people. (This must soundvery privileged to those of you who have to choosebetween medication and food. What can I say, I am veryvery sorry. It is terribly unfair. I do know what itis to be poor -- have been there . . .)Ok, that's it I think . . . oh, and fortunately Idon't have any metal fillings and have had mostlynatural health care for most of my life so avoidedmany detrimental drugs and vaccinations etc --although I did have to have plenty of antibiotics oneyear which probably made me susceptible to candidaovergrowth.I'm deeply grateful for any suggestions or thoughts onmy case -- the last 5 months have truly been the mostchallenging in my life (minus something very traumaticthat happened to be as a baby) -- I'm ready to get mylife and body back!Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! 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[Guest guest]

Hi Marlena,

Just gone through your list and one of the things that kinda hits me is the amount of herbal meds and vits you are taking. My ND told me on my first visit with her was her thinking 'give only what is needed' and get the system up with good supplements and good eating habits, then cut back on stuff that I should be getting from the food once I am at that point. Can I say that I think it would be a good idea to get a graph going of all that you are taking and the amounts in each one and then add the columns up to see what is the total amount that you are taking of each particular herb, vit: and mineral. Herbs, vitamins and minerals, like RX can be taken to excess and can have bad results to them and with the quantity that you are taking do you know if you have gone over the daily limit with some of it? If you have that could also be some of the cause of you not feeling the best and in fact could be doing some harm. Taking just the right

amount of any of these things is the key and when sick we sometimes need to increase for a short time but once the need is over then we should go back to only as needed thinking. Over dosing on these products can be as dangerous as doing the same thing with RX. Just thought that I would put that out there for you to check out.

Dawn Marlena wrote:

Ok, Topper, thank you for picking me apart -- that'sexactly what I want!!Right now, I take one dose of naturthroid. I waschewing it up but it was too small to actually swallowso I think most of it absorbed through my mouth not mystomach. However, I took it on an empty stomachanyway, then waited 1/2 hour to take a couplesupplements that also need to be on an empty stomach,and then one more 1/2 hour to eat breakfast. I wait 4hours after taking my naturthroid to have my iron ormulti-vitamin with calcium in it. Also, I startedtaking it sublingually for the last few days withoutchanging my other schedule -- and haven't noticedanything different so far.Although I've had bad symptoms for 10 years and mildsymptoms all my life (I'm 28) I wasn't tested anddiagnosed until 6 months ago (no doctor ever suspectedit) at

which point I was put on Armour beginningdosage 15 mg and have worked my way up since then. Idon't know why I have hypothyroidism except that itruns in my family but was always undiagnosed (probablysince we are not overweight -- probably due to badadrenal issues also which can contribute to weightloss creating a push pull that seems to have kept meabout average, but who knows -- hypo affects everyonedifferently). Now that I know what all the signs andsymptoms are I can see it clearly in my grandfather(he's already passed away though). My great uncle justgot diagnosed. My mother has all the signs andsymptoms but is not treated. Her antibodies were at 13when recently tested. So perhaps I had antibodiesbefore I was taking naturthroid and hydrocortisone --I don't know, but I didn't last time I was tested. Ido know that my mother and I have nutritionaldeficiencies, probably due to malabsorption andhereditary

factors (probably not diet as much becausewe eat super healthy, unless it is just because thesoils are depleted from commercial farming and thetoxic modern world) -- which could contribute tocausing hypo. My selenium was tested and was terriblylow. So yes I do take selenium -- about 460mcg/day. Mylist of medicines and supplements is as follows -- getready, it's long:naturthroid 150mgDHEA 7.5 mg (it was low, get it tested periodically)natural hydrocortisone 20 mg (for adrenals)natural progesterone and pregnenolone cream melatonin, tryptophan, and valerian when I haveinsomnia from the hydrocortisoneashwaganda/licorice/maca/ginseng tincture (foradrenals)chaste tree berry tincture (to regulate cycle)L-glutamine (for better digestion, detox etc)L-tyrosine (for adrenals and thyroid)glycine (detox)Vit C - 6 grams (I know it's a high dose but it helpswith my constipation until the thyroid starts

workingbetter. I do go everyday as long as I take plenty ofC, magnesium, and good diet, but sometimes I stillfeel constipated. C is also because I have highEpstein Barr Virus antibodies which from what I haveheard either means I had mono at some point and it'sgone now or the virus is still active -- I've also hadcandida problems off and on)Floradix floravital iron (for anemia)magnesium (also helps with constipation)B Complex 65 mg/dayB12 lozenges sublingual for better absorption (my B12is low -- was doing shots but switched to lozengesbecause it's more fun)multi-vitaminP5P (activated B6 for cycle, adrenals, waterretention, etc)Primal Defense (a probiotic for intestines andcandida)Cod liver oilborage oilflax oilOmegazyme enzymes, bromelain (for digestion)Lithate (from a hair analysis, my lithium wasextremely low -- this is a tiny dose in supplementform, not the medication that

interferes with thyroid)glutathione lozenges (for detox)Vitamin D (test revealed it was low)Garlic (for virus, candida, and detox)Indium (a trace mineral)Adrenal essence (B6, pantothenic acid, cordycepssinensis, rhodiola, ginseng, PABA)Med Caps T3 (vit A,D,E, iodine, zinc, selenium,guggulsterones, rosemary, ashwaganda) -- I've heardthat those with antibodies should avoid iodine, butsince I don't have any, I take this -- as recommendedby one doctor -- it is only 150 mcg.4 Tbsp aloe vera juice2 Tbsp ground flax seedI just ordered a mixed trace mineral supplement-- ithasn't gotten here yet.I really have no idea how many calories I eat a daybut I can give you an idea of how much I eat.On the advice of one doctor, I try to eat 70 grams ofprotein a day to avoid blood sugar surges and put lessstrain on the adrenals - plus plenty of high qualityfats, veggies and some fruit -- over the course of

theday that might look like: 2-3 eggs, 1 slice of mannabread (high protein sprouted grain) with 1 tbsp flaxoil and sea salt, 2 kiwis, 16-24 oz freshly juicedgreen veggies, a protein bar (not soy), a peach ormango, a 4 oz serving of meat w/ miso soup andveggies, a small serving of another whole grain withvirgin coconut oil (for viruses, candida, thyroid etc)and sea salt, 2-4 Tbsp of nuts or seeds, a banana.I avoid all wheat, dairy, refined sugar, refinedflours usually, all processed food, preservatives,goitrogens and try to eat organic. I'm very fortunateto be able to spend so much time and money on goodfood and supplements, at this time in my life, thanksto the support of many loving people. (This must soundvery privileged to those of you who have to choosebetween medication and food. What can I say, I am veryvery sorry. It is terribly unfair. I do know what itis to be poor -- have been there . .

..)Ok, that's it I think . . . oh, and fortunately Idon't have any metal fillings and have had mostlynatural health care for most of my life so avoidedmany detrimental drugs and vaccinations etc --although I did have to have plenty of antibiotics oneyear which probably made me susceptible to candidaovergrowth.I'm deeply grateful for any suggestions or thoughts onmy case -- the last 5 months have truly been the mostchallenging in my life (minus something very traumaticthat happened to be as a baby) -- I'm ready to get mylife and body back!Marlena __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html

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