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Re: Need to pick brains on my med tweaking - only for the brave - and it's LLOONNGG!!! hehehehe

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Hi ,

Will check your post tomorrow our heatwave just broke and it is nice and cool but when that happens the heat weariness hits and I feel exhausted. One thing that I have been meaning to mention is that on TV there is an ad by Merck and they are advertiseing that if you cannot afford their drugs they will supply them free on the request of your doctor. It struck me as strange that at least there was one drug company giving back to the patients. Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone here but thought that I would post it just in case.

Dawntopper2@... wrote:

Bringing up the lag time... it would suggest that this fatigue is my body reacting to the drop in dose 24 days ago.... (2 sets of pill box fills) That can fit too...

TTTTOOOOO darn many variables in this... and some of it because I was stupid... goofing up on setting up my pill boxes (I have a fail safe on my master dosing list now so that I don't make the same mistake again)

I don't have any books.. I do my research online.. facts change too quickly... internet is more current.. and follow everyone in the group keeps me even more current with how REAL people are reacting.

The creme and ovulation. Back on the days when I paid attention to ovulation... basal temps and everything else I could do to make sure that I reduced my risks of pregnancy. I found that I popped pretty consistently on day 14.. that was pre RAI.

Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware of full blown meno..

I'm spot checking morning temps now.. not doing consistently every day... getting lazy.. been doing this for three years now... so just spot check to see if I'm acceptable.

The last day I took the creme was Friday morning... so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period started...

This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't it?

Toooo many variables.... I'm gonna be making notes too!!! hehehehehe

What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

I've not been around any guys... managed to not chase the neighbor or tackle the UPS guy, honest... so unless it's aliens I'm not pregnant.

The adrenal glandular that I use is whole desiccated bovine adrenal glandular.. it's all I've ever used for adrenal support.. I chose it because my personal belief was that if whole desiccated thyroid glandular (Armour and the other natural thyroids) did so good for thyroid hormone replacement.. that maybe that same processing in an adrenal would be as beneficial.... I get it from Nutri-meds ( www.nutri-meds.com ) The tablet splits easily and I take it sublingually just like I do my natural thyroid.

I based my decision to take adrenal support on my history. Over a decade being underdosed on thyroid meds and declining to the point where I needed crutches to walk and took 2 to 3 weeks to have a bowel movement.. There was a LOT wrong with me, proof that my thyroid levels were very inadequate, and that my adrenals had to be what kept me going. My symptoms included nearly non stop crying.. actually had sores on my face from the tears all the time. Unable to handle ANY stress. Computers down at work I freaked. Bus late, I freaked. Dropped a bottle of shampoo once, the cap was off, and as it hit the floor shampoo shot up like a volcano. I looked for a second and wondered at the physics of it and then burst into tears... I wasted shampoo and I had to try to clean it up off the bathroom carpet. I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of either and it took me the better part of a day to just deal with cleaning up this, what? quarter cup of shampoo that managed to swoosh

out.....

I never laughed, rarely smiled can't even remember giggling. I let people walk all over me, wipe their boots off on my face and then thanked them for letting me be of help. I don't do that anymore. Low adrenals, and/or low thyroid, just let you roll over and let them kick you, spit on you and then take a dump on you.. and you just watch it all happen. No anger, no shame, nothing.. it just happens and you are the one that it just happens to be happening to.

I laugh and giggle and stick out my tongue at folks like I used to do all the time.. I am back to being more like me again....

When I first started on the Adrenal I decided I'd play it safe and only take half a pill. I felt so wonderful it was like walking through a door to a new world... I could do stuff that I'd not done in a long while... I was cleaning and cooking and all kinds of stuff... and then one day I was walking down the hall and fell down. Just collapsed. I got back up on my feet and it happened again. I'd been on the tabs for about a month. Over the next couple of days I had more trouble walking, forget about standing and then I had trouble with my hands... they cramped up so bad trying to peel apples that they turned into claws and would take and hour to relax.... That was the infamous night I got online and found Bev's Immnue group and cried for help.. it was the gals there that night that figured out that I'd felt so good that I'd over worked by poor run down body and was dealing with muscle failure due to extreme muscle fatigue... I over did it to the max.

I stopped the adrenal immediately and stayed off of it for two months, allowing my body to heal... I then started up at 1/4 tab and over the two years since that have worked up to a tab and a half, back off to 3/4 of a tab when I was running low and could afford to buy... then back up to 1 tab... then 1 1/4 tab 12 days ago.

Others can tell you more of their experiences with other products and dosing.... I chose to dose only in the morning.. the though being that the morning is the hardest time on the adrenals, if I could help them out with that and let them function normally during the rest of the day I could help them without risk of them shutting down.

Comparing Armour and Synthetic.. the charts at Armour's site say 1 grain of Armour is equal to 100 mcg of Synthroid (or generics)... if you do the math, 74 mcg of Synthroid is equal to 1 grain of Armour.

Armour, natural thyroids (prescription grade) contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. T3 is considered to be four times the physiologic potency of T4... So it's 9 X 4 is 36 plus 38 is 74.

If you are switching from synthetic to Armour... always go smaller... allow your body to adjust to the direct T3... if it's too much the affects should wear off in several hours... but safer is always better. You can adjust the dosage up far easier than having to wait for excesses to be used up, if you've taken too much, and then starting all over again....

Synthroid's 'ball park' dosing is 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement.. but it's considered a guideline and testing is needed to adjust according to the individual. A person dealing with Hashi's fluctuations could require more than that, for example, to suppress TSH and thyroid function..... You have to keep in mind, too, when dealing with the synthetics is they have a HUGE record of inconsistent dosing and shelf life...so a person can be taking meds from one bottle, lets use 100 mcg as the example... they have plus/minus of 10 %.. so you could have a 100 mcg bottle this month that actually has 90 mcg dosing.. then go get a refill on your prescription and get a bottle of 100 mcg from another batch that happens to have 110 mcg dosing... So.. some folks are getting a swing of as much as 20% of a dosage change just from opening a new bottle.

That is one reason why I buy a bunch of my pills at a time... and when I crack the seal on the last bottle I'm placing an order for another batch of bottles... then I wean off the last of the old times while adding the new pills....

So far I've been really luck on the natural I'm taking.... there have only been three batch lots involved out of two years of pills.. so it's been pretty easing keeping things consistent.

For the next four days I'm staying on the same dosing... that's so that the chopped pills can all be used up (the thyroid pills get quartered).. that will give me four days for my period to start and four days for us to all chew on this some more....

Topper ()

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Hi ,

Will check your post tomorrow our heatwave just broke and it is nice and cool but when that happens the heat weariness hits and I feel exhausted. One thing that I have been meaning to mention is that on TV there is an ad by Merck and they are advertiseing that if you cannot afford their drugs they will supply them free on the request of your doctor. It struck me as strange that at least there was one drug company giving back to the patients. Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone here but thought that I would post it just in case.

Dawntopper2@... wrote:

Bringing up the lag time... it would suggest that this fatigue is my body reacting to the drop in dose 24 days ago.... (2 sets of pill box fills) That can fit too...

TTTTOOOOO darn many variables in this... and some of it because I was stupid... goofing up on setting up my pill boxes (I have a fail safe on my master dosing list now so that I don't make the same mistake again)

I don't have any books.. I do my research online.. facts change too quickly... internet is more current.. and follow everyone in the group keeps me even more current with how REAL people are reacting.

The creme and ovulation. Back on the days when I paid attention to ovulation... basal temps and everything else I could do to make sure that I reduced my risks of pregnancy. I found that I popped pretty consistently on day 14.. that was pre RAI.

Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware of full blown meno..

I'm spot checking morning temps now.. not doing consistently every day... getting lazy.. been doing this for three years now... so just spot check to see if I'm acceptable.

The last day I took the creme was Friday morning... so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period started...

This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't it?

Toooo many variables.... I'm gonna be making notes too!!! hehehehehe

What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

I've not been around any guys... managed to not chase the neighbor or tackle the UPS guy, honest... so unless it's aliens I'm not pregnant.

The adrenal glandular that I use is whole desiccated bovine adrenal glandular.. it's all I've ever used for adrenal support.. I chose it because my personal belief was that if whole desiccated thyroid glandular (Armour and the other natural thyroids) did so good for thyroid hormone replacement.. that maybe that same processing in an adrenal would be as beneficial.... I get it from Nutri-meds ( www.nutri-meds.com ) The tablet splits easily and I take it sublingually just like I do my natural thyroid.

I based my decision to take adrenal support on my history. Over a decade being underdosed on thyroid meds and declining to the point where I needed crutches to walk and took 2 to 3 weeks to have a bowel movement.. There was a LOT wrong with me, proof that my thyroid levels were very inadequate, and that my adrenals had to be what kept me going. My symptoms included nearly non stop crying.. actually had sores on my face from the tears all the time. Unable to handle ANY stress. Computers down at work I freaked. Bus late, I freaked. Dropped a bottle of shampoo once, the cap was off, and as it hit the floor shampoo shot up like a volcano. I looked for a second and wondered at the physics of it and then burst into tears... I wasted shampoo and I had to try to clean it up off the bathroom carpet. I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of either and it took me the better part of a day to just deal with cleaning up this, what? quarter cup of shampoo that managed to swoosh

out.....

I never laughed, rarely smiled can't even remember giggling. I let people walk all over me, wipe their boots off on my face and then thanked them for letting me be of help. I don't do that anymore. Low adrenals, and/or low thyroid, just let you roll over and let them kick you, spit on you and then take a dump on you.. and you just watch it all happen. No anger, no shame, nothing.. it just happens and you are the one that it just happens to be happening to.

I laugh and giggle and stick out my tongue at folks like I used to do all the time.. I am back to being more like me again....

When I first started on the Adrenal I decided I'd play it safe and only take half a pill. I felt so wonderful it was like walking through a door to a new world... I could do stuff that I'd not done in a long while... I was cleaning and cooking and all kinds of stuff... and then one day I was walking down the hall and fell down. Just collapsed. I got back up on my feet and it happened again. I'd been on the tabs for about a month. Over the next couple of days I had more trouble walking, forget about standing and then I had trouble with my hands... they cramped up so bad trying to peel apples that they turned into claws and would take and hour to relax.... That was the infamous night I got online and found Bev's Immnue group and cried for help.. it was the gals there that night that figured out that I'd felt so good that I'd over worked by poor run down body and was dealing with muscle failure due to extreme muscle fatigue... I over did it to the max.

I stopped the adrenal immediately and stayed off of it for two months, allowing my body to heal... I then started up at 1/4 tab and over the two years since that have worked up to a tab and a half, back off to 3/4 of a tab when I was running low and could afford to buy... then back up to 1 tab... then 1 1/4 tab 12 days ago.

Others can tell you more of their experiences with other products and dosing.... I chose to dose only in the morning.. the though being that the morning is the hardest time on the adrenals, if I could help them out with that and let them function normally during the rest of the day I could help them without risk of them shutting down.

Comparing Armour and Synthetic.. the charts at Armour's site say 1 grain of Armour is equal to 100 mcg of Synthroid (or generics)... if you do the math, 74 mcg of Synthroid is equal to 1 grain of Armour.

Armour, natural thyroids (prescription grade) contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. T3 is considered to be four times the physiologic potency of T4... So it's 9 X 4 is 36 plus 38 is 74.

If you are switching from synthetic to Armour... always go smaller... allow your body to adjust to the direct T3... if it's too much the affects should wear off in several hours... but safer is always better. You can adjust the dosage up far easier than having to wait for excesses to be used up, if you've taken too much, and then starting all over again....

Synthroid's 'ball park' dosing is 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement.. but it's considered a guideline and testing is needed to adjust according to the individual. A person dealing with Hashi's fluctuations could require more than that, for example, to suppress TSH and thyroid function..... You have to keep in mind, too, when dealing with the synthetics is they have a HUGE record of inconsistent dosing and shelf life...so a person can be taking meds from one bottle, lets use 100 mcg as the example... they have plus/minus of 10 %.. so you could have a 100 mcg bottle this month that actually has 90 mcg dosing.. then go get a refill on your prescription and get a bottle of 100 mcg from another batch that happens to have 110 mcg dosing... So.. some folks are getting a swing of as much as 20% of a dosage change just from opening a new bottle.

That is one reason why I buy a bunch of my pills at a time... and when I crack the seal on the last bottle I'm placing an order for another batch of bottles... then I wean off the last of the old times while adding the new pills....

So far I've been really luck on the natural I'm taking.... there have only been three batch lots involved out of two years of pills.. so it's been pretty easing keeping things consistent.

For the next four days I'm staying on the same dosing... that's so that the chopped pills can all be used up (the thyroid pills get quartered).. that will give me four days for my period to start and four days for us to all chew on this some more....

Topper ()

__________________________________________________

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Guest guest

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Posted
Posted

Hi ,

Will check your post tomorrow our heatwave just broke and it is nice and cool but when that happens the heat weariness hits and I feel exhausted. One thing that I have been meaning to mention is that on TV there is an ad by Merck and they are advertiseing that if you cannot afford their drugs they will supply them free on the request of your doctor. It struck me as strange that at least there was one drug company giving back to the patients. Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone here but thought that I would post it just in case.

Dawntopper2@... wrote:

Bringing up the lag time... it would suggest that this fatigue is my body reacting to the drop in dose 24 days ago.... (2 sets of pill box fills) That can fit too...

TTTTOOOOO darn many variables in this... and some of it because I was stupid... goofing up on setting up my pill boxes (I have a fail safe on my master dosing list now so that I don't make the same mistake again)

I don't have any books.. I do my research online.. facts change too quickly... internet is more current.. and follow everyone in the group keeps me even more current with how REAL people are reacting.

The creme and ovulation. Back on the days when I paid attention to ovulation... basal temps and everything else I could do to make sure that I reduced my risks of pregnancy. I found that I popped pretty consistently on day 14.. that was pre RAI.

Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware of full blown meno..

I'm spot checking morning temps now.. not doing consistently every day... getting lazy.. been doing this for three years now... so just spot check to see if I'm acceptable.

The last day I took the creme was Friday morning... so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period started...

This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't it?

Toooo many variables.... I'm gonna be making notes too!!! hehehehehe

What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

I've not been around any guys... managed to not chase the neighbor or tackle the UPS guy, honest... so unless it's aliens I'm not pregnant.

The adrenal glandular that I use is whole desiccated bovine adrenal glandular.. it's all I've ever used for adrenal support.. I chose it because my personal belief was that if whole desiccated thyroid glandular (Armour and the other natural thyroids) did so good for thyroid hormone replacement.. that maybe that same processing in an adrenal would be as beneficial.... I get it from Nutri-meds ( www.nutri-meds.com ) The tablet splits easily and I take it sublingually just like I do my natural thyroid.

I based my decision to take adrenal support on my history. Over a decade being underdosed on thyroid meds and declining to the point where I needed crutches to walk and took 2 to 3 weeks to have a bowel movement.. There was a LOT wrong with me, proof that my thyroid levels were very inadequate, and that my adrenals had to be what kept me going. My symptoms included nearly non stop crying.. actually had sores on my face from the tears all the time. Unable to handle ANY stress. Computers down at work I freaked. Bus late, I freaked. Dropped a bottle of shampoo once, the cap was off, and as it hit the floor shampoo shot up like a volcano. I looked for a second and wondered at the physics of it and then burst into tears... I wasted shampoo and I had to try to clean it up off the bathroom carpet. I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of either and it took me the better part of a day to just deal with cleaning up this, what? quarter cup of shampoo that managed to swoosh

out.....

I never laughed, rarely smiled can't even remember giggling. I let people walk all over me, wipe their boots off on my face and then thanked them for letting me be of help. I don't do that anymore. Low adrenals, and/or low thyroid, just let you roll over and let them kick you, spit on you and then take a dump on you.. and you just watch it all happen. No anger, no shame, nothing.. it just happens and you are the one that it just happens to be happening to.

I laugh and giggle and stick out my tongue at folks like I used to do all the time.. I am back to being more like me again....

When I first started on the Adrenal I decided I'd play it safe and only take half a pill. I felt so wonderful it was like walking through a door to a new world... I could do stuff that I'd not done in a long while... I was cleaning and cooking and all kinds of stuff... and then one day I was walking down the hall and fell down. Just collapsed. I got back up on my feet and it happened again. I'd been on the tabs for about a month. Over the next couple of days I had more trouble walking, forget about standing and then I had trouble with my hands... they cramped up so bad trying to peel apples that they turned into claws and would take and hour to relax.... That was the infamous night I got online and found Bev's Immnue group and cried for help.. it was the gals there that night that figured out that I'd felt so good that I'd over worked by poor run down body and was dealing with muscle failure due to extreme muscle fatigue... I over did it to the max.

I stopped the adrenal immediately and stayed off of it for two months, allowing my body to heal... I then started up at 1/4 tab and over the two years since that have worked up to a tab and a half, back off to 3/4 of a tab when I was running low and could afford to buy... then back up to 1 tab... then 1 1/4 tab 12 days ago.

Others can tell you more of their experiences with other products and dosing.... I chose to dose only in the morning.. the though being that the morning is the hardest time on the adrenals, if I could help them out with that and let them function normally during the rest of the day I could help them without risk of them shutting down.

Comparing Armour and Synthetic.. the charts at Armour's site say 1 grain of Armour is equal to 100 mcg of Synthroid (or generics)... if you do the math, 74 mcg of Synthroid is equal to 1 grain of Armour.

Armour, natural thyroids (prescription grade) contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. T3 is considered to be four times the physiologic potency of T4... So it's 9 X 4 is 36 plus 38 is 74.

If you are switching from synthetic to Armour... always go smaller... allow your body to adjust to the direct T3... if it's too much the affects should wear off in several hours... but safer is always better. You can adjust the dosage up far easier than having to wait for excesses to be used up, if you've taken too much, and then starting all over again....

Synthroid's 'ball park' dosing is 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement.. but it's considered a guideline and testing is needed to adjust according to the individual. A person dealing with Hashi's fluctuations could require more than that, for example, to suppress TSH and thyroid function..... You have to keep in mind, too, when dealing with the synthetics is they have a HUGE record of inconsistent dosing and shelf life...so a person can be taking meds from one bottle, lets use 100 mcg as the example... they have plus/minus of 10 %.. so you could have a 100 mcg bottle this month that actually has 90 mcg dosing.. then go get a refill on your prescription and get a bottle of 100 mcg from another batch that happens to have 110 mcg dosing... So.. some folks are getting a swing of as much as 20% of a dosage change just from opening a new bottle.

That is one reason why I buy a bunch of my pills at a time... and when I crack the seal on the last bottle I'm placing an order for another batch of bottles... then I wean off the last of the old times while adding the new pills....

So far I've been really luck on the natural I'm taking.... there have only been three batch lots involved out of two years of pills.. so it's been pretty easing keeping things consistent.

For the next four days I'm staying on the same dosing... that's so that the chopped pills can all be used up (the thyroid pills get quartered).. that will give me four days for my period to start and four days for us to all chew on this some more....

Topper ()

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Hi, Topper,

There was something written <somewhere> about the body sometimes needing

more thyroid hormone during the summer months. Since your summer was

" late " this year, that may be part of the problem...

Also, When I switched between natural and synthetic thyroid, it takes

about two weeks before I notice the difference, so I typically alternate

them in order to not have that severe drop off due to the synthetic. When

I saw Dr. Berkenbile in Kingman last year, his testing showed that I am a

poor converter of T4. He wanted me to take Cytomel, but I didn't want to

do that. Stupid! I will be making an appointment with him in July or

August so that I can stop seeing the local doctor for thyroid meds.

The progesterone cream is typically only used for 14 days, however, that

would be in a person with a normal thyroid function. Perhaps you should

inquire into the feasibility of only reducing the dose for the second 14 days??

Dianne

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Guest guest

Posted
Posted

Hi, Topper,

There was something written <somewhere> about the body sometimes needing

more thyroid hormone during the summer months. Since your summer was

" late " this year, that may be part of the problem...

Also, When I switched between natural and synthetic thyroid, it takes

about two weeks before I notice the difference, so I typically alternate

them in order to not have that severe drop off due to the synthetic. When

I saw Dr. Berkenbile in Kingman last year, his testing showed that I am a

poor converter of T4. He wanted me to take Cytomel, but I didn't want to

do that. Stupid! I will be making an appointment with him in July or

August so that I can stop seeing the local doctor for thyroid meds.

The progesterone cream is typically only used for 14 days, however, that

would be in a person with a normal thyroid function. Perhaps you should

inquire into the feasibility of only reducing the dose for the second 14 days??

Dianne

--

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.3/15 - Release Date: 6/14/05

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Posted
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So.. you've pointed out that even though I've increase the 'T4

equivalency' of my dose, I have reduced the T3 per day by a small

percentage.. and I may be setting my self up for being dependent on

synthetic T3 for my 'important' first dose of the day.

My thinking is that your body does not store any T3 hormone. or have

much use for the T4 at all.

If you are taking in 9 mcg of T3 and your body is using 5 mcg the

other 4 mcg is being flushed through as waste. Hence the multidosing

and need for more multi dosing.

My thinking would be to cut back the change you made 11 days ago,

stabilize and then slowly increase your T3 again. Maybe adding another

dosing time to spread things out more evenly?

I will see what I can dig up on the cream/ female hormone issue..

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Posted
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So.. you've pointed out that even though I've increase the 'T4

equivalency' of my dose, I have reduced the T3 per day by a small

percentage.. and I may be setting my self up for being dependent on

synthetic T3 for my 'important' first dose of the day.

My thinking is that your body does not store any T3 hormone. or have

much use for the T4 at all.

If you are taking in 9 mcg of T3 and your body is using 5 mcg the

other 4 mcg is being flushed through as waste. Hence the multidosing

and need for more multi dosing.

My thinking would be to cut back the change you made 11 days ago,

stabilize and then slowly increase your T3 again. Maybe adding another

dosing time to spread things out more evenly?

I will see what I can dig up on the cream/ female hormone issue..

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest guest

Guest guest

Posted
Posted

So.. you've pointed out that even though I've increase the 'T4

equivalency' of my dose, I have reduced the T3 per day by a small

percentage.. and I may be setting my self up for being dependent on

synthetic T3 for my 'important' first dose of the day.

My thinking is that your body does not store any T3 hormone. or have

much use for the T4 at all.

If you are taking in 9 mcg of T3 and your body is using 5 mcg the

other 4 mcg is being flushed through as waste. Hence the multidosing

and need for more multi dosing.

My thinking would be to cut back the change you made 11 days ago,

stabilize and then slowly increase your T3 again. Maybe adding another

dosing time to spread things out more evenly?

I will see what I can dig up on the cream/ female hormone issue..

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Share on other sites
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Posted
Posted

Menopause

Re: Need to pick brains on my med tweaking - only for the brave - and it's LLOONNGG!!! hehehehe

Bringing up the lag time... it would suggest that this fatigue is my body reacting to the drop in dose 24 days ago.... (2 sets of pill box fills) That can fit too...

TTTTOOOOO darn many variables in this... and some of it because I was stupid... goofing up on setting up my pill boxes (I have a fail safe on my master dosing list now so that I don't make the same mistake again)

I don't have any books.. I do my research online.. facts change too quickly... internet is more current.. and follow everyone in the group keeps me even more current with how REAL people are reacting.

The creme and ovulation. Back on the days when I paid attention to ovulation... basal temps and everything else I could do to make sure that I reduced my risks of pregnancy. I found that I popped pretty consistently on day 14.. that was pre RAI.

Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware of full blown meno..

I'm spot checking morning temps now.. not doing consistently every day... getting lazy.. been doing this for three years now... so just spot check to see if I'm acceptable.

The last day I took the creme was Friday morning... so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period started...

This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't it?

Toooo many variables.... I'm gonna be making notes too!!! hehehehehe

What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

I've not been around any guys... managed to not chase the neighbor or tackle the UPS guy, honest... so unless it's aliens I'm not pregnant.

The adrenal glandular that I use is whole desiccated bovine adrenal glandular.. it's all I've ever used for adrenal support.. I chose it because my personal belief was that if whole desiccated thyroid glandular (Armour and the other natural thyroids) did so good for thyroid hormone replacement.. that maybe that same processing in an adrenal would be as beneficial.... I get it from Nutri-meds ( www.nutri-meds.com ) The tablet splits easily and I take it sublingually just like I do my natural thyroid.

I based my decision to take adrenal support on my history. Over a decade being underdosed on thyroid meds and declining to the point where I needed crutches to walk and took 2 to 3 weeks to have a bowel movement.. There was a LOT wrong with me, proof that my thyroid levels were very inadequate, and that my adrenals had to be what kept me going. My symptoms included nearly non stop crying.. actually had sores on my face from the tears all the time. Unable to handle ANY stress. Computers down at work I freaked. Bus late, I freaked. Dropped a bottle of shampoo once, the cap was off, and as it hit the floor shampoo shot up like a volcano. I looked for a second and wondered at the physics of it and then burst into tears... I wasted shampoo and I had to try to clean it up off the bathroom carpet. I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of either and it took me the better part of a day to just deal with cleaning up this, what? quarter cup of shampoo that managed to swoosh out.....

I never laughed, rarely smiled can't even remember giggling. I let people walk all over me, wipe their boots off on my face and then thanked them for letting me be of help. I don't do that anymore. Low adrenals, and/or low thyroid, just let you roll over and let them kick you, spit on you and then take a dump on you.. and you just watch it all happen. No anger, no shame, nothing.. it just happens and you are the one that it just happens to be happening to.

I laugh and giggle and stick out my tongue at folks like I used to do all the time.. I am back to being more like me again....

When I first started on the Adrenal I decided I'd play it safe and only take half a pill. I felt so wonderful it was like walking through a door to a new world... I could do stuff that I'd not done in a long while... I was cleaning and cooking and all kinds of stuff... and then one day I was walking down the hall and fell down. Just collapsed. I got back up on my feet and it happened again. I'd been on the tabs for about a month. Over the next couple of days I had more trouble walking, forget about standing and then I had trouble with my hands... they cramped up so bad trying to peel apples that they turned into claws and would take and hour to relax.... That was the infamous night I got online and found Bev's Immnue group and cried for help.. it was the gals there that night that figured out that I'd felt so good that I'd over worked by poor run down body and was dealing with muscle failure due to extreme muscle fatigue... I over did it to the max.

I stopped the adrenal immediately and stayed off of it for two months, allowing my body to heal... I then started up at 1/4 tab and over the two years since that have worked up to a tab and a half, back off to 3/4 of a tab when I was running low and could afford to buy... then back up to 1 tab... then 1 1/4 tab 12 days ago.

Others can tell you more of their experiences with other products and dosing.... I chose to dose only in the morning.. the though being that the morning is the hardest time on the adrenals, if I could help them out with that and let them function normally during the rest of the day I could help them without risk of them shutting down.

Comparing Armour and Synthetic.. the charts at Armour's site say 1 grain of Armour is equal to 100 mcg of Synthroid (or generics)... if you do the math, 74 mcg of Synthroid is equal to 1 grain of Armour.

Armour, natural thyroids (prescription grade) contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. T3 is considered to be four times the physiologic potency of T4... So it's 9 X 4 is 36 plus 38 is 74.

If you are switching from synthetic to Armour... always go smaller... allow your body to adjust to the direct T3... if it's too much the affects should wear off in several hours... but safer is always better. You can adjust the dosage up far easier than having to wait for excesses to be used up, if you've taken too much, and then starting all over again....

Synthroid's 'ball park' dosing is 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement.. but it's considered a guideline and testing is needed to adjust according to the individual. A person dealing with Hashi's fluctuations could require more than that, for example, to suppress TSH and thyroid function..... You have to keep in mind, too, when dealing with the synthetics is they have a HUGE record of inconsistent dosing and shelf life...so a person can be taking meds from one bottle, lets use 100 mcg as the example... they have plus/minus of 10 %.. so you could have a 100 mcg bottle this month that actually has 90 mcg dosing.. then go get a refill on your prescription and get a bottle of 100 mcg from another batch that happens to have 110 mcg dosing... So.. some folks are getting a swing of as much as 20% of a dosage change just from opening a new bottle.

That is one reason why I buy a bunch of my pills at a time... and when I crack the seal on the last bottle I'm placing an order for another batch of bottles... then I wean off the last of the old times while adding the new pills....

So far I've been really luck on the natural I'm taking.... there have only been three batch lots involved out of two years of pills.. so it's been pretty easing keeping things consistent.

For the next four days I'm staying on the same dosing... that's so that the chopped pills can all be used up (the thyroid pills get quartered).. that will give me four days for my period to start and four days for us to all chew on this some more....

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi ,Well I just reviewed your letter and took notes : ),so let's see if I've got it straight. You were at 309mcg (T4 equivalent), then you accidentally went downto 285 for 12 days? and then you jumped up to 335? Iforgot if you said when this was. Maybe your fatigueis from those 12 days of being at a lower dosage thanwhat you had become accustomed to -- since the effectsfrom changing a dosage with T4 in it can take up to 4weeks to be felt? You may have mentioned this alreadyor explained why this is not the case, but I guess Ididn't review well enough : ). I can't think ofanything else about this right now . . . Regarding the progesterone cream, I use it also andhad great results with it at least before I startedtreatment with thyroid hormone (at which pointeverything got worse :( ). It helped me withregulating my always irregular cycles and with PMS.Anyway, from what I have learned and read (do you havethe book, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You AboutPremenopause, by Lee?), the schedule you areusing for the cream is good, however there are a fewtips that are important for our imperfect bodies. Forinstance, it's best to start the cream after ovulation(if you do basal temps, then you can tell when youhave ovulated -- you probably know about fertilityawareness but if you don't and want more info let meknow) which is usually around day 14 but if it's not,like in my case and is much later than that, then theprogesterone can actually inhibit ovulation (whichwill then inhibit menstruation later). If you startthe cream after ovulation and take it for 12-14 daysand then stop, the drop in progesterone should usuallytrigger menstruation. Now you said that you stoppedusing it 5-6 days ago?? I think that is too longbetween stopping the cream and not menstruating (henceunusual symptoms). I'm wondering if you never ovulatedthis month, especially if you started the cream on acertain set day without noticing whether you did ornot. I've also heard that it can take up to 3 monthsfor your cycles to get regular after starting thecream. For my situation, where I ovulate late, Iusually use < 1/8 tsp, < than half of the recommendeddose, from day 14 to whenever I ovulate (a small doseactually helps my body to ovulate), and then betweenovulation and menstruation or for 12-14 days, I use1/4 tsp. I hope this is helpful.2 other questions: 1) I have read from 2 people in this group aboutadrenal glandulars. Please tell me more about these. Iam very confused about my adrenals. Can you tell mewhat brand you have found helps and also how you knowwhen you are having adrenal issues vs. thyroid issues?Also, have you used physiological (notpharmacological) doses of hydrocortisone? If so, didit help your adrenals? How did it interact with yourthyroid medicine? and did you have side effects?Thanks!!!2) I know you mentioned it, , in a previousletter a few days ago, but can you tell me again whatthe equivalent of T4 to natural thyroid is again??Sorry, I should have written that down. And you saidthat a typical dosage is a T4 equivalent of one's bodyweight, 1 to 1? But do people often need more thanthat?I don't really have more to help you with but if Imissed something let me know -- I would love to try tohelp more if I can.Marlena

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Menopause

Re: Need to pick brains on my med tweaking - only for the brave - and it's LLOONNGG!!! hehehehe

Bringing up the lag time... it would suggest that this fatigue is my body reacting to the drop in dose 24 days ago.... (2 sets of pill box fills) That can fit too...

TTTTOOOOO darn many variables in this... and some of it because I was stupid... goofing up on setting up my pill boxes (I have a fail safe on my master dosing list now so that I don't make the same mistake again)

I don't have any books.. I do my research online.. facts change too quickly... internet is more current.. and follow everyone in the group keeps me even more current with how REAL people are reacting.

The creme and ovulation. Back on the days when I paid attention to ovulation... basal temps and everything else I could do to make sure that I reduced my risks of pregnancy. I found that I popped pretty consistently on day 14.. that was pre RAI.

Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware of full blown meno..

I'm spot checking morning temps now.. not doing consistently every day... getting lazy.. been doing this for three years now... so just spot check to see if I'm acceptable.

The last day I took the creme was Friday morning... so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period started...

This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't it?

Toooo many variables.... I'm gonna be making notes too!!! hehehehehe

What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

I've not been around any guys... managed to not chase the neighbor or tackle the UPS guy, honest... so unless it's aliens I'm not pregnant.

The adrenal glandular that I use is whole desiccated bovine adrenal glandular.. it's all I've ever used for adrenal support.. I chose it because my personal belief was that if whole desiccated thyroid glandular (Armour and the other natural thyroids) did so good for thyroid hormone replacement.. that maybe that same processing in an adrenal would be as beneficial.... I get it from Nutri-meds ( www.nutri-meds.com ) The tablet splits easily and I take it sublingually just like I do my natural thyroid.

I based my decision to take adrenal support on my history. Over a decade being underdosed on thyroid meds and declining to the point where I needed crutches to walk and took 2 to 3 weeks to have a bowel movement.. There was a LOT wrong with me, proof that my thyroid levels were very inadequate, and that my adrenals had to be what kept me going. My symptoms included nearly non stop crying.. actually had sores on my face from the tears all the time. Unable to handle ANY stress. Computers down at work I freaked. Bus late, I freaked. Dropped a bottle of shampoo once, the cap was off, and as it hit the floor shampoo shot up like a volcano. I looked for a second and wondered at the physics of it and then burst into tears... I wasted shampoo and I had to try to clean it up off the bathroom carpet. I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of either and it took me the better part of a day to just deal with cleaning up this, what? quarter cup of shampoo that managed to swoosh out.....

I never laughed, rarely smiled can't even remember giggling. I let people walk all over me, wipe their boots off on my face and then thanked them for letting me be of help. I don't do that anymore. Low adrenals, and/or low thyroid, just let you roll over and let them kick you, spit on you and then take a dump on you.. and you just watch it all happen. No anger, no shame, nothing.. it just happens and you are the one that it just happens to be happening to.

I laugh and giggle and stick out my tongue at folks like I used to do all the time.. I am back to being more like me again....

When I first started on the Adrenal I decided I'd play it safe and only take half a pill. I felt so wonderful it was like walking through a door to a new world... I could do stuff that I'd not done in a long while... I was cleaning and cooking and all kinds of stuff... and then one day I was walking down the hall and fell down. Just collapsed. I got back up on my feet and it happened again. I'd been on the tabs for about a month. Over the next couple of days I had more trouble walking, forget about standing and then I had trouble with my hands... they cramped up so bad trying to peel apples that they turned into claws and would take and hour to relax.... That was the infamous night I got online and found Bev's Immnue group and cried for help.. it was the gals there that night that figured out that I'd felt so good that I'd over worked by poor run down body and was dealing with muscle failure due to extreme muscle fatigue... I over did it to the max.

I stopped the adrenal immediately and stayed off of it for two months, allowing my body to heal... I then started up at 1/4 tab and over the two years since that have worked up to a tab and a half, back off to 3/4 of a tab when I was running low and could afford to buy... then back up to 1 tab... then 1 1/4 tab 12 days ago.

Others can tell you more of their experiences with other products and dosing.... I chose to dose only in the morning.. the though being that the morning is the hardest time on the adrenals, if I could help them out with that and let them function normally during the rest of the day I could help them without risk of them shutting down.

Comparing Armour and Synthetic.. the charts at Armour's site say 1 grain of Armour is equal to 100 mcg of Synthroid (or generics)... if you do the math, 74 mcg of Synthroid is equal to 1 grain of Armour.

Armour, natural thyroids (prescription grade) contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. T3 is considered to be four times the physiologic potency of T4... So it's 9 X 4 is 36 plus 38 is 74.

If you are switching from synthetic to Armour... always go smaller... allow your body to adjust to the direct T3... if it's too much the affects should wear off in several hours... but safer is always better. You can adjust the dosage up far easier than having to wait for excesses to be used up, if you've taken too much, and then starting all over again....

Synthroid's 'ball park' dosing is 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement.. but it's considered a guideline and testing is needed to adjust according to the individual. A person dealing with Hashi's fluctuations could require more than that, for example, to suppress TSH and thyroid function..... You have to keep in mind, too, when dealing with the synthetics is they have a HUGE record of inconsistent dosing and shelf life...so a person can be taking meds from one bottle, lets use 100 mcg as the example... they have plus/minus of 10 %.. so you could have a 100 mcg bottle this month that actually has 90 mcg dosing.. then go get a refill on your prescription and get a bottle of 100 mcg from another batch that happens to have 110 mcg dosing... So.. some folks are getting a swing of as much as 20% of a dosage change just from opening a new bottle.

That is one reason why I buy a bunch of my pills at a time... and when I crack the seal on the last bottle I'm placing an order for another batch of bottles... then I wean off the last of the old times while adding the new pills....

So far I've been really luck on the natural I'm taking.... there have only been three batch lots involved out of two years of pills.. so it's been pretty easing keeping things consistent.

For the next four days I'm staying on the same dosing... that's so that the chopped pills can all be used up (the thyroid pills get quartered).. that will give me four days for my period to start and four days for us to all chew on this some more....

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi ,Well I just reviewed your letter and took notes : ),so let's see if I've got it straight. You were at 309mcg (T4 equivalent), then you accidentally went downto 285 for 12 days? and then you jumped up to 335? Iforgot if you said when this was. Maybe your fatigueis from those 12 days of being at a lower dosage thanwhat you had become accustomed to -- since the effectsfrom changing a dosage with T4 in it can take up to 4weeks to be felt? You may have mentioned this alreadyor explained why this is not the case, but I guess Ididn't review well enough : ). I can't think ofanything else about this right now . . . Regarding the progesterone cream, I use it also andhad great results with it at least before I startedtreatment with thyroid hormone (at which pointeverything got worse :( ). It helped me withregulating my always irregular cycles and with PMS.Anyway, from what I have learned and read (do you havethe book, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You AboutPremenopause, by Lee?), the schedule you areusing for the cream is good, however there are a fewtips that are important for our imperfect bodies. Forinstance, it's best to start the cream after ovulation(if you do basal temps, then you can tell when youhave ovulated -- you probably know about fertilityawareness but if you don't and want more info let meknow) which is usually around day 14 but if it's not,like in my case and is much later than that, then theprogesterone can actually inhibit ovulation (whichwill then inhibit menstruation later). If you startthe cream after ovulation and take it for 12-14 daysand then stop, the drop in progesterone should usuallytrigger menstruation. Now you said that you stoppedusing it 5-6 days ago?? I think that is too longbetween stopping the cream and not menstruating (henceunusual symptoms). I'm wondering if you never ovulatedthis month, especially if you started the cream on acertain set day without noticing whether you did ornot. I've also heard that it can take up to 3 monthsfor your cycles to get regular after starting thecream. For my situation, where I ovulate late, Iusually use < 1/8 tsp, < than half of the recommendeddose, from day 14 to whenever I ovulate (a small doseactually helps my body to ovulate), and then betweenovulation and menstruation or for 12-14 days, I use1/4 tsp. I hope this is helpful.2 other questions: 1) I have read from 2 people in this group aboutadrenal glandulars. Please tell me more about these. Iam very confused about my adrenals. Can you tell mewhat brand you have found helps and also how you knowwhen you are having adrenal issues vs. thyroid issues?Also, have you used physiological (notpharmacological) doses of hydrocortisone? If so, didit help your adrenals? How did it interact with yourthyroid medicine? and did you have side effects?Thanks!!!2) I know you mentioned it, , in a previousletter a few days ago, but can you tell me again whatthe equivalent of T4 to natural thyroid is again??Sorry, I should have written that down. And you saidthat a typical dosage is a T4 equivalent of one's bodyweight, 1 to 1? But do people often need more thanthat?I don't really have more to help you with but if Imissed something let me know -- I would love to try tohelp more if I can.Marlena

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Posted

Menopause

Re: Need to pick brains on my med tweaking - only for the brave - and it's LLOONNGG!!! hehehehe

Bringing up the lag time... it would suggest that this fatigue is my body reacting to the drop in dose 24 days ago.... (2 sets of pill box fills) That can fit too...

TTTTOOOOO darn many variables in this... and some of it because I was stupid... goofing up on setting up my pill boxes (I have a fail safe on my master dosing list now so that I don't make the same mistake again)

I don't have any books.. I do my research online.. facts change too quickly... internet is more current.. and follow everyone in the group keeps me even more current with how REAL people are reacting.

The creme and ovulation. Back on the days when I paid attention to ovulation... basal temps and everything else I could do to make sure that I reduced my risks of pregnancy. I found that I popped pretty consistently on day 14.. that was pre RAI.

Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware of full blown meno..

I'm spot checking morning temps now.. not doing consistently every day... getting lazy.. been doing this for three years now... so just spot check to see if I'm acceptable.

The last day I took the creme was Friday morning... so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period started...

This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't it?

Toooo many variables.... I'm gonna be making notes too!!! hehehehehe

What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

I've not been around any guys... managed to not chase the neighbor or tackle the UPS guy, honest... so unless it's aliens I'm not pregnant.

The adrenal glandular that I use is whole desiccated bovine adrenal glandular.. it's all I've ever used for adrenal support.. I chose it because my personal belief was that if whole desiccated thyroid glandular (Armour and the other natural thyroids) did so good for thyroid hormone replacement.. that maybe that same processing in an adrenal would be as beneficial.... I get it from Nutri-meds ( www.nutri-meds.com ) The tablet splits easily and I take it sublingually just like I do my natural thyroid.

I based my decision to take adrenal support on my history. Over a decade being underdosed on thyroid meds and declining to the point where I needed crutches to walk and took 2 to 3 weeks to have a bowel movement.. There was a LOT wrong with me, proof that my thyroid levels were very inadequate, and that my adrenals had to be what kept me going. My symptoms included nearly non stop crying.. actually had sores on my face from the tears all the time. Unable to handle ANY stress. Computers down at work I freaked. Bus late, I freaked. Dropped a bottle of shampoo once, the cap was off, and as it hit the floor shampoo shot up like a volcano. I looked for a second and wondered at the physics of it and then burst into tears... I wasted shampoo and I had to try to clean it up off the bathroom carpet. I was totally overwhelmed at the thought of either and it took me the better part of a day to just deal with cleaning up this, what? quarter cup of shampoo that managed to swoosh out.....

I never laughed, rarely smiled can't even remember giggling. I let people walk all over me, wipe their boots off on my face and then thanked them for letting me be of help. I don't do that anymore. Low adrenals, and/or low thyroid, just let you roll over and let them kick you, spit on you and then take a dump on you.. and you just watch it all happen. No anger, no shame, nothing.. it just happens and you are the one that it just happens to be happening to.

I laugh and giggle and stick out my tongue at folks like I used to do all the time.. I am back to being more like me again....

When I first started on the Adrenal I decided I'd play it safe and only take half a pill. I felt so wonderful it was like walking through a door to a new world... I could do stuff that I'd not done in a long while... I was cleaning and cooking and all kinds of stuff... and then one day I was walking down the hall and fell down. Just collapsed. I got back up on my feet and it happened again. I'd been on the tabs for about a month. Over the next couple of days I had more trouble walking, forget about standing and then I had trouble with my hands... they cramped up so bad trying to peel apples that they turned into claws and would take and hour to relax.... That was the infamous night I got online and found Bev's Immnue group and cried for help.. it was the gals there that night that figured out that I'd felt so good that I'd over worked by poor run down body and was dealing with muscle failure due to extreme muscle fatigue... I over did it to the max.

I stopped the adrenal immediately and stayed off of it for two months, allowing my body to heal... I then started up at 1/4 tab and over the two years since that have worked up to a tab and a half, back off to 3/4 of a tab when I was running low and could afford to buy... then back up to 1 tab... then 1 1/4 tab 12 days ago.

Others can tell you more of their experiences with other products and dosing.... I chose to dose only in the morning.. the though being that the morning is the hardest time on the adrenals, if I could help them out with that and let them function normally during the rest of the day I could help them without risk of them shutting down.

Comparing Armour and Synthetic.. the charts at Armour's site say 1 grain of Armour is equal to 100 mcg of Synthroid (or generics)... if you do the math, 74 mcg of Synthroid is equal to 1 grain of Armour.

Armour, natural thyroids (prescription grade) contain 38 mcg of T4 and 9 mcg of T3. T3 is considered to be four times the physiologic potency of T4... So it's 9 X 4 is 36 plus 38 is 74.

If you are switching from synthetic to Armour... always go smaller... allow your body to adjust to the direct T3... if it's too much the affects should wear off in several hours... but safer is always better. You can adjust the dosage up far easier than having to wait for excesses to be used up, if you've taken too much, and then starting all over again....

Synthroid's 'ball park' dosing is 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement.. but it's considered a guideline and testing is needed to adjust according to the individual. A person dealing with Hashi's fluctuations could require more than that, for example, to suppress TSH and thyroid function..... You have to keep in mind, too, when dealing with the synthetics is they have a HUGE record of inconsistent dosing and shelf life...so a person can be taking meds from one bottle, lets use 100 mcg as the example... they have plus/minus of 10 %.. so you could have a 100 mcg bottle this month that actually has 90 mcg dosing.. then go get a refill on your prescription and get a bottle of 100 mcg from another batch that happens to have 110 mcg dosing... So.. some folks are getting a swing of as much as 20% of a dosage change just from opening a new bottle.

That is one reason why I buy a bunch of my pills at a time... and when I crack the seal on the last bottle I'm placing an order for another batch of bottles... then I wean off the last of the old times while adding the new pills....

So far I've been really luck on the natural I'm taking.... there have only been three batch lots involved out of two years of pills.. so it's been pretty easing keeping things consistent.

For the next four days I'm staying on the same dosing... that's so that the chopped pills can all be used up (the thyroid pills get quartered).. that will give me four days for my period to start and four days for us to all chew on this some more....

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi ,Well I just reviewed your letter and took notes : ),so let's see if I've got it straight. You were at 309mcg (T4 equivalent), then you accidentally went downto 285 for 12 days? and then you jumped up to 335? Iforgot if you said when this was. Maybe your fatigueis from those 12 days of being at a lower dosage thanwhat you had become accustomed to -- since the effectsfrom changing a dosage with T4 in it can take up to 4weeks to be felt? You may have mentioned this alreadyor explained why this is not the case, but I guess Ididn't review well enough : ). I can't think ofanything else about this right now . . . Regarding the progesterone cream, I use it also andhad great results with it at least before I startedtreatment with thyroid hormone (at which pointeverything got worse :( ). It helped me withregulating my always irregular cycles and with PMS.Anyway, from what I have learned and read (do you havethe book, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You AboutPremenopause, by Lee?), the schedule you areusing for the cream is good, however there are a fewtips that are important for our imperfect bodies. Forinstance, it's best to start the cream after ovulation(if you do basal temps, then you can tell when youhave ovulated -- you probably know about fertilityawareness but if you don't and want more info let meknow) which is usually around day 14 but if it's not,like in my case and is much later than that, then theprogesterone can actually inhibit ovulation (whichwill then inhibit menstruation later). If you startthe cream after ovulation and take it for 12-14 daysand then stop, the drop in progesterone should usuallytrigger menstruation. Now you said that you stoppedusing it 5-6 days ago?? I think that is too longbetween stopping the cream and not menstruating (henceunusual symptoms). I'm wondering if you never ovulatedthis month, especially if you started the cream on acertain set day without noticing whether you did ornot. I've also heard that it can take up to 3 monthsfor your cycles to get regular after starting thecream. For my situation, where I ovulate late, Iusually use < 1/8 tsp, < than half of the recommendeddose, from day 14 to whenever I ovulate (a small doseactually helps my body to ovulate), and then betweenovulation and menstruation or for 12-14 days, I use1/4 tsp. I hope this is helpful.2 other questions: 1) I have read from 2 people in this group aboutadrenal glandulars. Please tell me more about these. Iam very confused about my adrenals. Can you tell mewhat brand you have found helps and also how you knowwhen you are having adrenal issues vs. thyroid issues?Also, have you used physiological (notpharmacological) doses of hydrocortisone? If so, didit help your adrenals? How did it interact with yourthyroid medicine? and did you have side effects?Thanks!!!2) I know you mentioned it, , in a previousletter a few days ago, but can you tell me again whatthe equivalent of T4 to natural thyroid is again??Sorry, I should have written that down. And you saidthat a typical dosage is a T4 equivalent of one's bodyweight, 1 to 1? But do people often need more thanthat?I don't really have more to help you with but if Imissed something let me know -- I would love to try tohelp more if I can.Marlena

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Hi Dianne,

I actually read that sometimes people need less

thyroid hormone in the summer and more in the winter,

because in cold weather the body has to work harder to

maintain a normal temperature and metabolism. Not sure

though, would like to hear more.

Marlena

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Hi Dianne,

I actually read that sometimes people need less

thyroid hormone in the summer and more in the winter,

because in cold weather the body has to work harder to

maintain a normal temperature and metabolism. Not sure

though, would like to hear more.

Marlena

__________________________________

Discover Yahoo!

Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/

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Posted
Posted

Hi Dianne,

I actually read that sometimes people need less

thyroid hormone in the summer and more in the winter,

because in cold weather the body has to work harder to

maintain a normal temperature and metabolism. Not sure

though, would like to hear more.

Marlena

__________________________________

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Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!

http://discover.yahoo.com/

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Posted

I've heard that same as you, Marlena... as the temperature drops and the metabolism has to kick it up a few notches to keep the basal temp up with the colder weather, some folks need to increase thyroid levels.

I've not noticed a difference.. but here.. the house is kept at 80 year round and I don't get out much.. so I dont' realize much of a seasonal difference... for me it's too hot all the time and is relieved in the winter more by being able to go outside on the deck, in the snow, with bare feet and no coat!!!! hehehehehe

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Marlena writes:

Hi Dianne,I actually read that sometimes people need lessthyroid hormone in the summer and more in the winter,because in cold weather the body has to work harder tomaintain a normal temperature and metabolism. Not surethough, would like to hear more.Marlena

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I can relate to that... after a heat wave, the cooler air starts to sink in and your body just rreellaaxxeess and you want to curl up and sleep!!!!

For the financially challenge... crippled?? it's not the cost of the drugs.. its the cost of the docs... The last time I tried to see a doc and pay out of pocket I was given an estimate of $1,000 plus labs and office visits as we adjust the dose after the initial visit. Not one doc's office I called said that they would just do labs and prescribe.. they ALL said that I needed a full physical and a butt load of stuff BEFORE they would do a blood draw for thyroid.

Considering the experiences of MANY of us here... what does this sound like to you? To me it sounds as though the KA-CHING alarm went off in their brains and they decided they could soak me for the max because I need the meds.

None of the organizations or companies that offer medication at free or reduced cost to those in need will dispense it without a current prescription... and if I could afford the doc and labs I wouldn't need them to send me a free bottle of Synthroid... oh yeah... I spot check these deals every once in a while... none of them offer natural thyroid.. it's all Synthroid.

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:36:41 -0700 (PDT) dawn prince writes:

Hi ,

Will check your post tomorrow our heatwave just broke and it is nice and cool but when that happens the heat weariness hits and I feel exhausted. One thing that I have been meaning to mention is that on TV there is an ad by Merck and they are advertiseing that if you cannot afford their drugs they will supply them free on the request of your doctor. It struck me as strange that at least there was one drug company giving back to the patients. Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone here but thought that I would post it just in case.

Dawn

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I can relate to that... after a heat wave, the cooler air starts to sink in and your body just rreellaaxxeess and you want to curl up and sleep!!!!

For the financially challenge... crippled?? it's not the cost of the drugs.. its the cost of the docs... The last time I tried to see a doc and pay out of pocket I was given an estimate of $1,000 plus labs and office visits as we adjust the dose after the initial visit. Not one doc's office I called said that they would just do labs and prescribe.. they ALL said that I needed a full physical and a butt load of stuff BEFORE they would do a blood draw for thyroid.

Considering the experiences of MANY of us here... what does this sound like to you? To me it sounds as though the KA-CHING alarm went off in their brains and they decided they could soak me for the max because I need the meds.

None of the organizations or companies that offer medication at free or reduced cost to those in need will dispense it without a current prescription... and if I could afford the doc and labs I wouldn't need them to send me a free bottle of Synthroid... oh yeah... I spot check these deals every once in a while... none of them offer natural thyroid.. it's all Synthroid.

Topper ()

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:36:41 -0700 (PDT) dawn prince writes:

Hi ,

Will check your post tomorrow our heatwave just broke and it is nice and cool but when that happens the heat weariness hits and I feel exhausted. One thing that I have been meaning to mention is that on TV there is an ad by Merck and they are advertiseing that if you cannot afford their drugs they will supply them free on the request of your doctor. It struck me as strange that at least there was one drug company giving back to the patients. Not sure if this will be of any help to anyone here but thought that I would post it just in case.

Dawn

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We, it's my understanding anyway.. don't store T3. We store T4. The T4 is then converted, as needed to T3... that a person that is a poor converter is not able to be consistently proficient at keeping adequate levels of T3 for proper body function....

Comments here gang.... there are more here than just me with conversion issues.....

Topper ()

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:51:39 -0000 "kats3boys" writes:

So.. you've pointed out that even though I've increase the 'T4 equivalency' of my dose, I have reduced the T3 per day by a small percentage.. and I may be setting my self up for being dependent on synthetic T3 for my 'important' first dose of the day.My thinking is that your body does not store any T3 hormone. or have much use for the T4 at all.If you are taking in 9 mcg of T3 and your body is using 5 mcg the other 4 mcg is being flushed through as waste. Hence the multidosing and need for more multi dosing.My thinking would be to cut back the change you made 11 days ago, stabilize and then slowly increase your T3 again. Maybe adding another dosing time to spread things out more evenly?I will see what I can dig up on the cream/ female hormone issue..

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We, it's my understanding anyway.. don't store T3. We store T4. The T4 is then converted, as needed to T3... that a person that is a poor converter is not able to be consistently proficient at keeping adequate levels of T3 for proper body function....

Comments here gang.... there are more here than just me with conversion issues.....

Topper ()

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:51:39 -0000 "kats3boys" writes:

So.. you've pointed out that even though I've increase the 'T4 equivalency' of my dose, I have reduced the T3 per day by a small percentage.. and I may be setting my self up for being dependent on synthetic T3 for my 'important' first dose of the day.My thinking is that your body does not store any T3 hormone. or have much use for the T4 at all.If you are taking in 9 mcg of T3 and your body is using 5 mcg the other 4 mcg is being flushed through as waste. Hence the multidosing and need for more multi dosing.My thinking would be to cut back the change you made 11 days ago, stabilize and then slowly increase your T3 again. Maybe adding another dosing time to spread things out more evenly?I will see what I can dig up on the cream/ female hormone issue..

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We, it's my understanding anyway.. don't store T3. We store T4. The T4 is then converted, as needed to T3... that a person that is a poor converter is not able to be consistently proficient at keeping adequate levels of T3 for proper body function....

Comments here gang.... there are more here than just me with conversion issues.....

Topper ()

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:51:39 -0000 "kats3boys" writes:

So.. you've pointed out that even though I've increase the 'T4 equivalency' of my dose, I have reduced the T3 per day by a small percentage.. and I may be setting my self up for being dependent on synthetic T3 for my 'important' first dose of the day.My thinking is that your body does not store any T3 hormone. or have much use for the T4 at all.If you are taking in 9 mcg of T3 and your body is using 5 mcg the other 4 mcg is being flushed through as waste. Hence the multidosing and need for more multi dosing.My thinking would be to cut back the change you made 11 days ago, stabilize and then slowly increase your T3 again. Maybe adding another dosing time to spread things out more evenly?I will see what I can dig up on the cream/ female hormone issue..

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Well, Pard... You know I've been praying to the menopause gods for years... I even make offerings of baked goods and have a shrine!!!

*wink*

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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:12:10 -0500 "Feisty\(ThyroFeisty\)" writes:

Menopause

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Hi, ,

Menopause can happen any number of ways including what you

describe. My periods stopped after a partial hysterectomy in 1982, but

with each subsequent surgery to stop the problems, I had symptoms of low

estrogen, which of course, meant hormone replacement therapy. I had to

stop that because it interfered with the treatment for depression, and also

messed with the testing for my thyroid meds. Since the doctor would not

increase the Armour to compensate for the estrogen binding problem, and I

was having renewed problems with depression, I opted to stop the

estrogen. Currently, I am back to having night sweats.

Dianne

At 07:09 PM 6/15/05, you wrote:

>Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been

>closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping

>accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware

>of full blown meno.. The last day I took the creme was Friday morning...

>so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period

>started... This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't

>it? What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together

>than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

>

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Hi, ,

Menopause can happen any number of ways including what you

describe. My periods stopped after a partial hysterectomy in 1982, but

with each subsequent surgery to stop the problems, I had symptoms of low

estrogen, which of course, meant hormone replacement therapy. I had to

stop that because it interfered with the treatment for depression, and also

messed with the testing for my thyroid meds. Since the doctor would not

increase the Armour to compensate for the estrogen binding problem, and I

was having renewed problems with depression, I opted to stop the

estrogen. Currently, I am back to having night sweats.

Dianne

At 07:09 PM 6/15/05, you wrote:

>Now.. bringing up the subject of cycles.... My periods lately have been

>closer together... closer to 22 days then 28.... I having been keeping

>accurate track I should, at 47 I need to watch this stuff to be more aware

>of full blown meno.. The last day I took the creme was Friday morning...

>so five days.... That puts me at 31 days since my last period

>started... This is looking more like my cycle is goofed up...doesn't

>it? What are the chances of having three or four periods closer together

>than normal and then just stopping cold turkey?

>

--

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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.3/15 - Release Date: 6/14/05

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Hi Topper,

Calcium helps with stress, for those of us that have osteopenia - it helps with amount of ability to stand up, and helps with usable energy level.

It also sounds like the synethic isn't working with your body.

Send[';ing Love, Ritatopper2@... wrote:

Okay, I know what I WANT to do.. and it would work.. and I know what I should do, but am not sure it would work. Now that I have you all confused... wait until you see the res!!!!

.... maybe a seat belt and crash helmet are in order. For sure grab a paper an pencil to take notes!!! hehehehee

I have to set up pill boxes tomorrow morning... so the sooner we can figure this out.. the better... If we can't.. I'll keep it all the same as it is right now until we come up with an idea as to what my body is trying to tell me.

We all know how hard it is to see yourself sometimes.. and this one has been bugging me.. not knowing quite what I need to shift.

Brief history part.

RAI about 15 years ago, no thyroid function. Genetic defect, not autoimmune, disease or injury.

Synthroid and it's clones prescribed by docs, maximum dose never exceeded 200 mcg. Ended up needed crutches to walk, ran out of Synthetic T4 and money for docs, labs and meds in November '99.

Got intermittent 'left over' pills from friends an relatives between spring '00 to July '02. Basals dropped to temp of 97.0 or slightly less, pulse of 50 and respiration of 10 and now realize I was also dealing with 'air hunger'

Started self medicating in July '02 with OTC natural, started prescription grade natural in July '03.

My body is very sensitive to adjustments and dosing. Adjustments are best done at 6 to 8 weeks, some have been as long as 12. I find that I need to dose throughout the day, with the final dose at bedtime. Otherwise I have fatigue issues.

Had labs done in Feb '05

TSH .333 ( .35 - 5.50 ) -- I know range is wrong...

Free T4 .9 ( .8 - 1.8 )

Free T3 2.9 ( 2.3 - 4.2 )

Based on these labs, and symptoms I determined I needed to increase.

Basals were up: Temp 98.2 to 98.4, pulse between 72 and 78, respiration at 18 to 20.

Financial considerations had me choose to maintain my current dose of natural (I had been on this dose since April of '04, holding at the same dose until I could get a ride in for labs), 7 doses of 1/2 grain per day, for a total of 3 1/2 grain per day, taken sublingually. . And use synthetic to do my increases. This was done to stretch the stash of natural that I have until I can find another source.

T4 equivalent of 259 mcg

The first increase was to add 25 mcg of T4, taken first thing in the morning, empty stomach, along with my first 1/2 dose of natural and my dose of desiccated adrenal, taken sublingually. The rest of my daily thyroid schedule remained the same. I didn't notice much of a difference.. no 'WHAM' but I had the uncomfortableness that I get with a change in dosage.

T4 equivalent of 284 mcg

I was stupid, impatient and a smart A & ^% and increased another 25 mcg of T4 after 12 days. This hit me a bit harder and I held at this dose for 60 days.

T4 equivalent of 309 mcg

My next scheduled dosage increase included a reduction of natural and an increase of T4 and the addition of T3 (synthetics are both generics)

My natural dose was still kept in 1/2 grain doses but was changed to a total of 2.5 grain per day

I then goofed on the cutting and sorting of the synthetics and ended up with a dose of 75 mcg of T4 and 6 1/4 mcg of T3. The synthetics were taking first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with my dose of desiccated adrenal.

T4 equivalent of 285 mcg

I noticed something was off but didn't quite know what. My pill boxes are set up for 12 days at a time, it was when I was setting up pill boxes after that 12 days that I'd sorted the synthetics wrong and decided to jump back to my charted plan....

Natural dose held at 2.5 grain per day, taken in half grain doses, T4 125 mcg, T3 25 mcg

T4 equivalent of 335 mcg

I started using the progesterone creme on May 28th. This last dose adjustment was begun on June 4th. To 'buffer' the jump in thyroid I increased my adrenal glandular by 25 %.

The progesterone creme is my official wonder creme. It stopped my 24 hour per day sweats. I still over heated on hot days, while being active but quickly cooled down. I slept deeply and restoratively and had a day or two of 'wandering thoughts' *wink*

On day 13 of using the creme I had a bad night sleeping. On day 14 of the creme I had a bad night sleeping. It was the last day to use the creme until my period starts and I start counting days again. (I'm pre menopausal so the schedule is to start the creme that 12th day after the beginning of the period and use for 14 days and then stop. Waiting for the start of the period and then beginning the count again.)

My first two nights without creme I slept well. Third day was high stress and I had a bad night, that is not unusual for me when stressed. Last night I slept very well.

During this whole period since starting the creme we've had hot weather, for me, and some of those days hot for others, and a lot of humidity - with storms. I handled the hot humid days while on the creme better than I have in over ten years.

My last day on the creme was last Friday... It's now Wednesday. Tuesday and today we've had a break in the weather, the temp has dropped. It was in the 60s this morning, down from the 80s that we've been having yet I was over heating badly. Even going out in the breeze or sitting in front of the fan I was having trouble feeling comfortable. I was sweating profusely. I was working on my chores... some cooking, some dishes and vacuuming. I was taking breaks in between because I felt too warm. When I was all done and came back in here to sit down I got chilled after a while... my clothes were soaked with sweat and I was sitting by an open window.

After my clothes dried I became warm again. I'm in the sitting part of my day... for the last four hours now... and still feel warm.. not hot... not enough to turn on the fan... but warm.

My period has not yet started. I don't get PMS, I have no warning symptoms.. I just watch for spotting. The last six months or so I start spotting in the early morning.. which is supposed to be the time of day that the body, with healthy adrenals, is supposed to start it. Over night or later day starts are supposed to be signals that the body is out of balance.

Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and today, Wednesday I have had severe early morning fatigue, this has not been usual for me for, geez.. two years? Unless I've been chronically short on sleep... and even then, I'm usually a morning person and even short on sleep I tend to pick up after the second dose of natural (on my old, pre synthetic, dosing schedule)

Monday and Tuesday I went and laid down for an hour to 'recharge'. Today I forced myself not to and I'm dragging butt, now. I want to sleep. It's 5 pm. I'm 12 hours into my normal day. I have another 5 hours before my regular sleep time.... I should not be this wasted.

Okay... now you have all the factors, I think....

I WANT to go back to all naturals, but I need to stretch what I have with the synthetic.

I want to stay on the creme every day, but don't know if that is exactly wise since I'm not yet (I don't think) in menopause and my cycles have been regular and 'normal'

I do NOT want to increases my T4 equivalent. I want that to remain stable, at the 335 equivalent that I'm now at, for at least 60 days and then re evaluate.

Keeping in mind that the 'standard' dose of T4 is said to be 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement and I'm considerably over 335 in weight. I tend to believe that I'm still not at my optimal dose... but have had noticeable improvements since beginning my increases in February. I still feel that there is room for improvement but I also realize that for as many years that I was underdosed that I may have permanent damage that may not be correctable, regardless of my dose, or source, of hormone.

So. What do the rest of you see?

Are my fatigue symptoms related to a delayed stress thing from the large jump in dosage that I made 11 days ago? (remember I have no remaining thyroid function, so it's not a drop in natural production triggered by the dosage adjustment)

Is it due to stopping the progesterone creme?

Is it because the progesterone creme did a lot to balance my suspected estrogen dominance and I used up more thyroid hormone during that time and now am in a slump (shortage) of available hormone?

Is it because I really really don't convert/handle/tolerate synthetic well enough for it to give my body what it needs and this shift may have left me short of usable hormone?

I haven't changed anything with any of my other supplements or vitamins.. except for opening a two new bottles which I did about 8 weeks ago, I opened new bottles of adrenal Glandular and selenium. The adrenal was the same brand/source that I've been using for over two years. The selenium was the same formulation but from a different source than what I used the year previous.

I've had no extra physical exertion the last couple of months.

Light bulb moment... I ran out of calcium 4 days ago and I've been out of my regular vitamin C for about 2 months.... All though dropping either of these shouldn't make a difference I add them anyway, cuz they may mean something.

Okay.. more factors, sorry...

Does anyone see anything that I'm not catching... I'm at a stage right now were I'm flubbergusted and just want it fixed.. you guys KNOW what I mean... and I don't want to do something stupid... it's easier to see something in someone else than it is yourself... that's why I'm laying it all out for you guys, to see if you can see something I'm missing.

I'll be setting up the pill boxes between 8 and 10 Thursday morning.

Topper () *can I take a nap now???? Please???? I've been a good girl, I vacuumed without being asked...... *

__________________________________________________

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Hi Topper,

Calcium helps with stress, for those of us that have osteopenia - it helps with amount of ability to stand up, and helps with usable energy level.

It also sounds like the synethic isn't working with your body.

Send[';ing Love, Ritatopper2@... wrote:

Okay, I know what I WANT to do.. and it would work.. and I know what I should do, but am not sure it would work. Now that I have you all confused... wait until you see the res!!!!

.... maybe a seat belt and crash helmet are in order. For sure grab a paper an pencil to take notes!!! hehehehee

I have to set up pill boxes tomorrow morning... so the sooner we can figure this out.. the better... If we can't.. I'll keep it all the same as it is right now until we come up with an idea as to what my body is trying to tell me.

We all know how hard it is to see yourself sometimes.. and this one has been bugging me.. not knowing quite what I need to shift.

Brief history part.

RAI about 15 years ago, no thyroid function. Genetic defect, not autoimmune, disease or injury.

Synthroid and it's clones prescribed by docs, maximum dose never exceeded 200 mcg. Ended up needed crutches to walk, ran out of Synthetic T4 and money for docs, labs and meds in November '99.

Got intermittent 'left over' pills from friends an relatives between spring '00 to July '02. Basals dropped to temp of 97.0 or slightly less, pulse of 50 and respiration of 10 and now realize I was also dealing with 'air hunger'

Started self medicating in July '02 with OTC natural, started prescription grade natural in July '03.

My body is very sensitive to adjustments and dosing. Adjustments are best done at 6 to 8 weeks, some have been as long as 12. I find that I need to dose throughout the day, with the final dose at bedtime. Otherwise I have fatigue issues.

Had labs done in Feb '05

TSH .333 ( .35 - 5.50 ) -- I know range is wrong...

Free T4 .9 ( .8 - 1.8 )

Free T3 2.9 ( 2.3 - 4.2 )

Based on these labs, and symptoms I determined I needed to increase.

Basals were up: Temp 98.2 to 98.4, pulse between 72 and 78, respiration at 18 to 20.

Financial considerations had me choose to maintain my current dose of natural (I had been on this dose since April of '04, holding at the same dose until I could get a ride in for labs), 7 doses of 1/2 grain per day, for a total of 3 1/2 grain per day, taken sublingually. . And use synthetic to do my increases. This was done to stretch the stash of natural that I have until I can find another source.

T4 equivalent of 259 mcg

The first increase was to add 25 mcg of T4, taken first thing in the morning, empty stomach, along with my first 1/2 dose of natural and my dose of desiccated adrenal, taken sublingually. The rest of my daily thyroid schedule remained the same. I didn't notice much of a difference.. no 'WHAM' but I had the uncomfortableness that I get with a change in dosage.

T4 equivalent of 284 mcg

I was stupid, impatient and a smart A & ^% and increased another 25 mcg of T4 after 12 days. This hit me a bit harder and I held at this dose for 60 days.

T4 equivalent of 309 mcg

My next scheduled dosage increase included a reduction of natural and an increase of T4 and the addition of T3 (synthetics are both generics)

My natural dose was still kept in 1/2 grain doses but was changed to a total of 2.5 grain per day

I then goofed on the cutting and sorting of the synthetics and ended up with a dose of 75 mcg of T4 and 6 1/4 mcg of T3. The synthetics were taking first thing in the morning on an empty stomach with my dose of desiccated adrenal.

T4 equivalent of 285 mcg

I noticed something was off but didn't quite know what. My pill boxes are set up for 12 days at a time, it was when I was setting up pill boxes after that 12 days that I'd sorted the synthetics wrong and decided to jump back to my charted plan....

Natural dose held at 2.5 grain per day, taken in half grain doses, T4 125 mcg, T3 25 mcg

T4 equivalent of 335 mcg

I started using the progesterone creme on May 28th. This last dose adjustment was begun on June 4th. To 'buffer' the jump in thyroid I increased my adrenal glandular by 25 %.

The progesterone creme is my official wonder creme. It stopped my 24 hour per day sweats. I still over heated on hot days, while being active but quickly cooled down. I slept deeply and restoratively and had a day or two of 'wandering thoughts' *wink*

On day 13 of using the creme I had a bad night sleeping. On day 14 of the creme I had a bad night sleeping. It was the last day to use the creme until my period starts and I start counting days again. (I'm pre menopausal so the schedule is to start the creme that 12th day after the beginning of the period and use for 14 days and then stop. Waiting for the start of the period and then beginning the count again.)

My first two nights without creme I slept well. Third day was high stress and I had a bad night, that is not unusual for me when stressed. Last night I slept very well.

During this whole period since starting the creme we've had hot weather, for me, and some of those days hot for others, and a lot of humidity - with storms. I handled the hot humid days while on the creme better than I have in over ten years.

My last day on the creme was last Friday... It's now Wednesday. Tuesday and today we've had a break in the weather, the temp has dropped. It was in the 60s this morning, down from the 80s that we've been having yet I was over heating badly. Even going out in the breeze or sitting in front of the fan I was having trouble feeling comfortable. I was sweating profusely. I was working on my chores... some cooking, some dishes and vacuuming. I was taking breaks in between because I felt too warm. When I was all done and came back in here to sit down I got chilled after a while... my clothes were soaked with sweat and I was sitting by an open window.

After my clothes dried I became warm again. I'm in the sitting part of my day... for the last four hours now... and still feel warm.. not hot... not enough to turn on the fan... but warm.

My period has not yet started. I don't get PMS, I have no warning symptoms.. I just watch for spotting. The last six months or so I start spotting in the early morning.. which is supposed to be the time of day that the body, with healthy adrenals, is supposed to start it. Over night or later day starts are supposed to be signals that the body is out of balance.

Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and today, Wednesday I have had severe early morning fatigue, this has not been usual for me for, geez.. two years? Unless I've been chronically short on sleep... and even then, I'm usually a morning person and even short on sleep I tend to pick up after the second dose of natural (on my old, pre synthetic, dosing schedule)

Monday and Tuesday I went and laid down for an hour to 'recharge'. Today I forced myself not to and I'm dragging butt, now. I want to sleep. It's 5 pm. I'm 12 hours into my normal day. I have another 5 hours before my regular sleep time.... I should not be this wasted.

Okay... now you have all the factors, I think....

I WANT to go back to all naturals, but I need to stretch what I have with the synthetic.

I want to stay on the creme every day, but don't know if that is exactly wise since I'm not yet (I don't think) in menopause and my cycles have been regular and 'normal'

I do NOT want to increases my T4 equivalent. I want that to remain stable, at the 335 equivalent that I'm now at, for at least 60 days and then re evaluate.

Keeping in mind that the 'standard' dose of T4 is said to be 1 mcg per pound of body weight for FULL replacement and I'm considerably over 335 in weight. I tend to believe that I'm still not at my optimal dose... but have had noticeable improvements since beginning my increases in February. I still feel that there is room for improvement but I also realize that for as many years that I was underdosed that I may have permanent damage that may not be correctable, regardless of my dose, or source, of hormone.

So. What do the rest of you see?

Are my fatigue symptoms related to a delayed stress thing from the large jump in dosage that I made 11 days ago? (remember I have no remaining thyroid function, so it's not a drop in natural production triggered by the dosage adjustment)

Is it due to stopping the progesterone creme?

Is it because the progesterone creme did a lot to balance my suspected estrogen dominance and I used up more thyroid hormone during that time and now am in a slump (shortage) of available hormone?

Is it because I really really don't convert/handle/tolerate synthetic well enough for it to give my body what it needs and this shift may have left me short of usable hormone?

I haven't changed anything with any of my other supplements or vitamins.. except for opening a two new bottles which I did about 8 weeks ago, I opened new bottles of adrenal Glandular and selenium. The adrenal was the same brand/source that I've been using for over two years. The selenium was the same formulation but from a different source than what I used the year previous.

I've had no extra physical exertion the last couple of months.

Light bulb moment... I ran out of calcium 4 days ago and I've been out of my regular vitamin C for about 2 months.... All though dropping either of these shouldn't make a difference I add them anyway, cuz they may mean something.

Okay.. more factors, sorry...

Does anyone see anything that I'm not catching... I'm at a stage right now were I'm flubbergusted and just want it fixed.. you guys KNOW what I mean... and I don't want to do something stupid... it's easier to see something in someone else than it is yourself... that's why I'm laying it all out for you guys, to see if you can see something I'm missing.

I'll be setting up the pill boxes between 8 and 10 Thursday morning.

Topper () *can I take a nap now???? Please???? I've been a good girl, I vacuumed without being asked...... *

__________________________________________________

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