EMT Impersonator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/13/04 10:26:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

hbarber@... writes:

Thanks to the system for letting more and more crazy folks out on the

street.This guy is harmless when compared to others that are wandering our

streets. We all have someone in our area that has the six pak but lost the

plastic rings that hold it together.PD is probably tired of dealing with

this guy because nothing can really been done to him or for him. My

suggestion is to keep a eye on the guy and pray he is the worst you will

see. I would however take the time after a call and speak with him and

voice your concerns. Have you spoken with the person about your concerns

will be the first question ask of you. Be respectful, in reality, he has

just as much right on the street as you do. He is a bystander, a crazy

bystander, but still a bystander. He sounds sane compared to some folks I

know in EMS.

I agree with Henry completely.

[Guest guest]

-- " Mike , LP " wrote:

" That said, I'd keep a close watch on this individual. It's disturbing

that the local police won't take an interest, but that could also be

because they've had significantly more interactions with him and

understand that he's " just a wannabe " and not a threat. "

Agreed, this could be an example of 'familiarity breeding contempt " and the

minute you dismiss them as 'part of the tapestry', that is when you get bit, and

hard.

" Gavin DeBecker has a great book that I encourage everyone to read - it's a

pretty good introduction into " personal profiling " and training yourself to

trust your instincts with regards to people, places and situations of all

types... it's called " The Gift of Fear " and I pesonally think that every

emergency responder should have to read it, because it teaches you how to trust

the hair on the back of your neck, the feeling in your guy, and to react smartly

without being in fear. "

I read it as part of my Public Safety degree, and second your recommendation. It

is a good read, makes you ask youself 'what if ...?' and will help you improve

your situational awareness.

Larry

[Guest guest]

I would dare to say that it might constitute Interference w/ Public Duties

if it does not meet statutory requirements of 37.11, Penal Code..

§ 38.15. INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES. (a) A

person commits an offense if the person with criminal negligence

interrupts, disrupts, impedes, or otherwise interferes with:

(1) a peace officer while the peace officer is

performing a duty or exercising authority imposed or granted by

law;

(2) a person who is employed to provide emergency

medical services including the transportation of ill or injured

persons while the person is performing that duty;

(3) a fire fighter, while the fire fighter is fighting

a fire or investigating the cause of a fire;

Re: EMT Impersonator

> --- Laptop wrote:

> > Several statutes come to mind here:

> >

> > § 37.11. IMPERSONATING PUBLIC SERVANT. (a) A person

> > commits an offense if he:

> > (1) impersonates a public servant with intent to

> > induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to

> > rely on his pretended official acts; or

> > ( An offense under this section is a felony of the third

> > degree.

>

> Jay has hit this on the head. But, here's the reality of this

> situation...

>

> What he's doing, by your description, is distressing, but not likely

> illegal until he actually says or does something " official. "

>

> I agree with others on here that given his actions/continued presence,

> he's either looking to be involved and just not sure how to go about it

> (been turned down enough, etc. that he's just trying to " be there " ), OR,

> more worrisome, is that's he's mentally unstable.

>

> Let me be very, very clear - without knowing this person or anything else

> about him than the few emails here, I cannot and will not make a

> determination of his mental status. Period.

>

> That said, I'd keep a close watch on this individual. It's disturbing

> that the local police won't take an interest, but that could also be

> because they've had significantly more interactions with him and

> understand that he's " just a wannabe " and not a threat.

>

> Gavin DeBecker has a great book that I encourage everyone to read - it's a

> pretty good introduction into " personal profiling " and training yourself

> to trust your instincts with regards to people, places and situations of

> all types... it's called " The Gift of Fear " and I pesonally think that

> every emergency responder should have to read it, because it teaches you

> how to trust the hair on the back of your neck, the feeling in your guy,

> and to react smartly without being in fear.

>

> Mike

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I would dare to say that it might constitute Interference w/ Public Duties

if it does not meet statutory requirements of 37.11, Penal Code..

§ 38.15. INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES. (a) A

person commits an offense if the person with criminal negligence

interrupts, disrupts, impedes, or otherwise interferes with:

(1) a peace officer while the peace officer is

performing a duty or exercising authority imposed or granted by

law;

(2) a person who is employed to provide emergency

medical services including the transportation of ill or injured

persons while the person is performing that duty;

(3) a fire fighter, while the fire fighter is fighting

a fire or investigating the cause of a fire;

Re: EMT Impersonator

> --- Laptop wrote:

> > Several statutes come to mind here:

> >

> > § 37.11. IMPERSONATING PUBLIC SERVANT. (a) A person

> > commits an offense if he:

> > (1) impersonates a public servant with intent to

> > induce another to submit to his pretended official authority or to

> > rely on his pretended official acts; or

> > ( An offense under this section is a felony of the third

> > degree.

>

> Jay has hit this on the head. But, here's the reality of this

> situation...

>

> What he's doing, by your description, is distressing, but not likely

> illegal until he actually says or does something " official. "

>

> I agree with others on here that given his actions/continued presence,

> he's either looking to be involved and just not sure how to go about it

> (been turned down enough, etc. that he's just trying to " be there " ), OR,

> more worrisome, is that's he's mentally unstable.

>

> Let me be very, very clear - without knowing this person or anything else

> about him than the few emails here, I cannot and will not make a

> determination of his mental status. Period.

>

> That said, I'd keep a close watch on this individual. It's disturbing

> that the local police won't take an interest, but that could also be

> because they've had significantly more interactions with him and

> understand that he's " just a wannabe " and not a threat.

>

> Gavin DeBecker has a great book that I encourage everyone to read - it's a

> pretty good introduction into " personal profiling " and training yourself

> to trust your instincts with regards to people, places and situations of

> all types... it's called " The Gift of Fear " and I pesonally think that

> every emergency responder should have to read it, because it teaches you

> how to trust the hair on the back of your neck, the feeling in your guy,

> and to react smartly without being in fear.

>

> Mike

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

> ...I do know that he has gone into some of the local bars here trying

> to pick up women.

Damn! There's a law against that now? Who woulda thunk it?

This guy sounds like a nutcase wannabe who may be a threat to your ego.

However, I have yet to hear how he realistically presents a legal or

operational threat. All this speculative innuendo and conjecture about his

intentions isn't helping your case.

Mike is (as usual) correct when he observes that LE won't take an

interest possibly, " ...because they've had significantly more interactions

with him and understand that he's " just a wannabe " and not a threat. "

Hassle this guy enough and it may be all it takes to turn him from a wannabe

into an enemy. Not a good idea.

What exactly is a TSTC EMS uniform, anyhow?

Rob

[Guest guest]

I know!!!!

INCUBATE HIM!!!!

Cristi

[Guest guest]

I am in no way implying I (or anyone else should violate his constitutional

rights)............. That is lawsuit city. My post says if he is in the

middle of a wreck scene, a shooting, etc- he can take his pictures, wish he was

there, etc with everyone else- where the other gawkers are.

That is what boundries are for- police tape, police officers, etc- and in some

cases EMS will have to determine the boundry. When someone crosses that boundry

(media or not) they are open to an arrest if they don't leave just like anyone

else. When it becomes interference is when someone can't do their jobs.

IMPEDE

v 1: be a hindrance or obstacle to;

Staute says " Impedes, or otherwise inteferes with...

" INTERFERENCE WITH PUBLIC DUTIES. (a) A

person commits an offense if the person with criminal negligence

interrupts, disrupts, impedes, or otherwise interferes with....

If him being on the scene is a hinderence (IE you having to watch out for his

safety too, then I would say an arrest is justifiable- IF HE DONT move where

everyone else is. Media or not, if he is told not to be in the middle of an

accident scene, shooting, etc- he is OPEN SEASON for arrest.

jh

Re: Re: EMT Impersonator

Hey Mike perhaps he's got a camera. Nothing like violating the mans rights on

a constitutional basis. Last time I checked a picture of a public accident

was news and if your not interfering this thing called the First Amendment

applies and you do NOT need a press card.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Home Office)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization

that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the original

author.

[Guest guest]

Oh lord no, then he'd hatch into more little gawkers.

This world has plenty of them already.

Bobby

Re: Re: EMT Impersonator

> I know!!!!

>

>

> INCUBATE HIM!!!!

>

>

> Cristi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh lord no, then he'd hatch into more little gawkers.

This world has plenty of them already.

Bobby

Re: Re: EMT Impersonator

> I know!!!!

>

>

> INCUBATE HIM!!!!

>

>

> Cristi

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Another thought... people who hang at fire scenes like this sometimes

(and this is an extreme case) are arsonists.... what's the EMS

equivalent of that???

B. , AAS, LP

Baylor Regional Medical Center at Grapevine

EMS Educator

Baylor EMS Medical Control

1601 Lancaster Drive Suite #10

Grapevine, Tx 76051-3300

Office

Direct Line

Fax

Cell

Pager

Re: EMT Impersonator

> ...I do know that he has gone into some of the local bars here trying

> to pick up women.

Damn! There's a law against that now? Who woulda thunk it?

This guy sounds like a nutcase wannabe who may be a threat to your ego.

However, I have yet to hear how he realistically presents a legal or

operational threat. All this speculative innuendo and conjecture about

his

intentions isn't helping your case.

Mike is (as usual) correct when he observes that LE won't take an

interest possibly, " ...because they've had significantly more

interactions

with him and understand that he's " just a wannabe " and not a threat. "

Hassle this guy enough and it may be all it takes to turn him from a

wannabe

into an enemy. Not a good idea.

What exactly is a TSTC EMS uniform, anyhow?

Rob

[Guest guest]

Nope. Rubbernecker's don't CAUSE the incident. They just slow

down, gawk, and make it worse.

Very different idiot.

Mike

>

> > Another thought... people who hang at fire scenes like this

sometimes

> > (and this is an extreme case) are arsonists.... what's the EMS

> > equivalent of that???

[Guest guest]

Nope. Rubbernecker's don't CAUSE the incident. They just slow

down, gawk, and make it worse.

Very different idiot.

Mike

>

> > Another thought... people who hang at fire scenes like this

sometimes

> > (and this is an extreme case) are arsonists.... what's the EMS

> > equivalent of that???

[Guest guest]

LMAO, so true. Would this be somewhere near the same thought pattern of a

murderer often being in the crowd at the actual scene of the homicide?

Mike (the other Mike)

Re: EMT Impersonator

Nope. Rubbernecker's don't CAUSE the incident. They just slow

down, gawk, and make it worse.

Very different idiot.

Mike

>

> > Another thought... people who hang at fire scenes like this

sometimes

> > (and this is an extreme case) are arsonists.... what's the EMS

> > equivalent of that???

[Guest guest]

LMAO, so true. Would this be somewhere near the same thought pattern of a

murderer often being in the crowd at the actual scene of the homicide?

Mike (the other Mike)

Re: EMT Impersonator

Nope. Rubbernecker's don't CAUSE the incident. They just slow

down, gawk, and make it worse.

Very different idiot.

Mike

>

> > Another thought... people who hang at fire scenes like this

sometimes

> > (and this is an extreme case) are arsonists.... what's the EMS

> > equivalent of that???

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/14/04 1:36:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

bbledsoe@... writes:

Have 5 EMS providers surround him, take him down, tie him to a back board,

and make him sit through a 5 hour CISM session or 4 hours of biotrrorism

training. That will make him want to be a farmer for sure.

BEB

No, , make him watch 5 hours of HIPAA video. That will do it.

[Guest guest]

We had one working for us. He was a certified EMT working for a transfer

service. He drove a blue Crown Vic with a plethora of radios and scanners.

He even had dash lights and strobes. This all came to an end when he was

cited for impersonating a police officer because he was responding Code 2

(emergency lights only) in his private vehicle. He was responding to the

hospital to pick up a nonemergency transfer to a nursing home. He left our

service shortly after.

_____

From: coolclay84

Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:10 AM

To:

Subject: EMT Impersonator

I've got a question. Where I live there is a young man who constantly

runs around in a TSTC EMS uniform. He was once a student, but has

failed the basic course numerous times. He walks around town with the

shirt and ems pants in addition to that, he wears about 14 pairs of

sisccors, and a glove pouch. Recently there was a funeral in which

several (30-40) police, fire, and ems personel attended. This young

man, made his way onto the grounds, and was walking around amongst

everyone else. (Almost all of the emergency personel were fully

uniformed.) At one point he attempted to make conversation with the

widow, also it looked as though he was trying to sneak a peak at the

body. I can't even believe someone would do such a thing.

Then upon departure for the funeral procession, he was standing on

the corner in a " Secret Service " type pose, with what appeared to be

a cell phone ear piece in his ear (with no cell phone), which was

running down his shirt. Obviously trying to impersonate someone

(Possibly the DPS officer blocking traffic near where he was). There

have been numerous times where he has showed up on scenes, and is

always misleading people to what he is or does. There have also have

been times that he was arrested for trying to arrest someone or

detain some people, I'm not really sure which one. This has been

going on for quite sometime and when I was at the funeral I thought

that this was just totaly uncalled for. Is there anything that can be

done? How much will arresting him really help? This gentleman is not

certified, and I pray to god he never does get certified. So I'm

assuming that this is out of TDH's reach. Anyone have any

suggestions? And have any of you dealt with this kind of thing

before? What happened in thoose instances? Thanks for your help.

-, EMT-I

PS: He is NOT associated with any type of EMS, Fire, or Police

orginaization. He holds no certification of any type.

[Guest guest]

-- " Bledsoe " wrote:

" ...make him sit through a 5 hour CISM session or 4 hours of biotrrorism

training. That will make him want to be a farmer for sure. "

I recall something about cruel and unusual punishment... :-)

[Guest guest]

It's not punishment, it's training! It's all in the way

you frame it. Where are the politicians? :-)

Short

shortmatt@...

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

" Faith is the conviction that God still does and the hope that He

will again. " ... Anonymous

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

>

> I recall something about cruel and unusual punishment... :-)

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's not punishment, it's training! It's all in the way

you frame it. Where are the politicians? :-)

Short

shortmatt@...

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

" Faith is the conviction that God still does and the hope that He

will again. " ... Anonymous

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

>

> I recall something about cruel and unusual punishment... :-)

>

>

[Guest guest]

He may even be psychotic and dangerous leave him alone he will step over the

legal bounds soon enough all by him self. When brought to court he will be

insane and not guilty by reason of.

Re: EMT Impersonator

>

> Just my opinion, and it's probably worth less than a cup of coffee, here

goes. While I am not sure anything can be done, officially, I have a modest

proposal...

>

> Assess whether or not he causes problems on a scene. If he is actually

useful, let him help. You get an extra pair of hands for a few minutes, he

feels good about himself, and everyone has a good day.

> Some people just are wired different, and he sounds like someone who needs

some type of life. Continue monitoring for changes in his behavior.

>

> HOWEVER... If he exceeds bounds or starts jumping calls....

>

> Get some pictures of this wannabe and distribute these to the DPS, county

sheriffs, local PDs who work the area he frequents (he sounds territorial),

and if he drives, maybe some pics of his car, license number,

desciption,etc.

>

> On a one-on-one basis, let the LEOs know the truth about this person, and

suggest (if it is the case) that this person is a hazard at a scene.

>

> While scenes can be busy, maybe a close and personal encounter with a LEO

will shut this guy down. If not, a few tickets / arrests for Obstructing a

scene might cool his jets.

>

> Larry RN, LP, yada, yada ...

> Houston

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

He may even be psychotic and dangerous leave him alone he will step over the

legal bounds soon enough all by him self. When brought to court he will be

insane and not guilty by reason of.

Re: EMT Impersonator

>

> Just my opinion, and it's probably worth less than a cup of coffee, here

goes. While I am not sure anything can be done, officially, I have a modest

proposal...

>

> Assess whether or not he causes problems on a scene. If he is actually

useful, let him help. You get an extra pair of hands for a few minutes, he

feels good about himself, and everyone has a good day.

> Some people just are wired different, and he sounds like someone who needs

some type of life. Continue monitoring for changes in his behavior.

>

> HOWEVER... If he exceeds bounds or starts jumping calls....

>

> Get some pictures of this wannabe and distribute these to the DPS, county

sheriffs, local PDs who work the area he frequents (he sounds territorial),

and if he drives, maybe some pics of his car, license number,

desciption,etc.

>

> On a one-on-one basis, let the LEOs know the truth about this person, and

suggest (if it is the case) that this person is a hazard at a scene.

>

> While scenes can be busy, maybe a close and personal encounter with a LEO

will shut this guy down. If not, a few tickets / arrests for Obstructing a

scene might cool his jets.

>

> Larry RN, LP, yada, yada ...

> Houston

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Not any more people are getting a higher education now and actually apply for

jobs instead of hanging around the funeral home hoping to catch a ride.

Re: Re: EMT Impersonator

I thought this was the way that we all got into this business......

[Guest guest]

Rsi protocols for incubation.

Re: Re: EMT Impersonator

I know!!!!

INCUBATE HIM!!!!

Cristi

[Guest guest]

Rsi protocols for incubation.

Re: Re: EMT Impersonator

I know!!!!

INCUBATE HIM!!!!

Cristi

[Guest guest]

-- " Maxine Pate " wrote:

The other was a young man who was mildly retarded. ... He was as happy as a lark

and the firefighters were really nice to him--made him feel special. ... When

things would seem to be getting out of hand (for example, him coming to scenes

where his safety might be at risk) we would talk to a local police officer who

had known his family for years. The officer would talk to his guardian

(grandmother) and the family would rein him in a little. A couple of years ago,

the grandmother died and the young man had to move to another town to live with

other relatives. We miss him.

Maxine makes a good point for on of the positives of living in a smaller town.

People know people, and know the best way to work with them. Sure in a smaller

town 'everyone knows your business', but this s case where this works to an

advantage.