Writing webs

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill:

I'm new to replying to messages so I'm not sure if this will post

twice.

In reading your response to Elaine, I thought I was reading about my

son CJ. He is 1st grade and is also struggling with math facts,

spelling and writing. He really dislikes writing.

Your TOD's suggestions were so helpful...I plan on starting a Dialog

Journal with him for fun.

The question that I did have was what are " webs " ??? How do they

work and where can I get them???

Thank you so much...I was getting frustrated with his frastration

and now he and I can work constructively with a nice fun element.

Eileen in FL

mom of son CJ (HA, 6 3/4yo, mainstreamed)and (3yo hearing)

-- In Listen-Up , JillcWood@a... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 9/9/2004 7:23:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> beat4girl@a... writes:

>

> He can say what he wants to

> write but when it gets to the paper it is not what he said. I

guess

> that is processing too. The school psychologist suggests he use a

> computer for writing at school and they have 5 in each class so

he

> can use those. He also has trouble copying from the board to his

> paper or from the book to his paper. Writing definitions to

spelling

> words is a NIGHTMARE! So I am trying to teach him more

keyboarding

> stuff.

>

>

>

>

> Elaine,

>

> You could be describing my son there. Especially Ian in 4th grade.

He failed

> just about every vocabulary test that year because he could never

get the

> definitions off the board and into his notebook. The teacher

thought that

> giving him (or me or the SpecEd teacher) the list was " babying "

him. It was a

> horrible year. So, I am going to ramble on a bit about how our

TOD worked with

> Ian to help with those issues. I credit her with knowing the

things we could do

> to address his needs. He was struggling so badly.

>

> Our son also has a processing speed issue, and probably an

attentant

> processing issue as well. It has never been investigated the way

his hearing loss

> has because we found ways to work with it. Or should I say around

it?

>

> Memorizing " math facts " was incredibly hard and he struggled

throughout 3rd

> and 4th grade to memorize them.He still doesn;t have them

memorized. He is a

> terrible speller and nothing has ever helped to improve that and

we're not

> sure why. The funny part is he cannot grasp the spelling of words

he learned

> before he started to get vocabulary and spelling lists. Those he

seems capable

> of remembering. It's the simple words like " turn " which he always

spells

> " tern " because to him it should be spelled that way. (Thank

goodness for

> spell/grammar checks.)

>

> He also had a terrible time writing. He'd struggle for hours

trying to write

> his thoughts. We found that if he could get himself organized the

writing

> would flow better. So, The TOD had us start using webs -- those

odd graphic

> organizers that look like a bunch of circles connected by lines.

He lay out his

> thoughts and from there worked up to being able to write an

outline. Then

> he'd do a first draft, then a second and as many as it took to get

to the final.

> Eventually he was able to just write an outline. But honestly,

the web works

> for him and he sometimes still uses one when organizing his

reports.

>

> We used this process for everything from a single paragraph to a

5 paragraph

> essay, something 4th graders are supposed to be accomplishing.

Now he's a

> freshman in high school and he has imprioved so much. But I'm not

kidding when

> I say that he spent hours every night working on some writing

assignment.

>

> When originally speaking with our TOD to establish the kind of

help Ian

> needed, we found that his problems are common in D/HOH kids. She

was ready to

> address the issue, where the SpecEd people were clueless. She

taught him how to

> use the webs. She worked to develop his outlining skills and

organize his

> thoughts.

>

> The SpecEd teacher thought the webs were " inappropriate " for him.

She hated

> the spelling study games, hated the jeopardy-like vocabulary study

game. They

> didn't fit what the standard solutions were for a child his age.

He'd missed

> learning some very basic writing skills before he was getting

appropriate

> services and he needed those skills. The TOD found the way to give

him the

> skills without teaching him at a 2nd grade level. That is my point

about a good

> TOD. He/she is looking for what works for that particular D/HOH

child, not

> what formula should be used for all 4th graders. (Please pardon my

bias here, I

> know there are good SpecEd teachers out there, but the ones we had

were

> absolutely horrible -- rigid and ineffectual.)

>

> She also introduced something called a Dialog Journal. It was an

ongoing

> writing assignment but it was designed to be fun and informal. A

simple

> composition notebook (those bound black and white ones) in which

they would write

> letters to each other. They'd pick a topic to start, like Boy

Scouts, and Ian

> would tell her about what he did while camping. She would then

write back,

> modeling his mistakes back to him but corrected. She did not go

through it with a

> red pen and corrrect him. It was correcting by example and

practice. He

> would get extra points for correcting his common mistakes, and

ones for using new

> vocabulary. And an occassional point or two for getting spelling

right, (but

> that was never a goal for the journal).

>

> The journal was to get him writing. I would tell him to talk as he

wrote

> because he could always express himself speaking, but when it came

to writing

> down the same words, they'd get lost. So, he'd talk to himself as

he wrote. I

> encouraged it. He'd say what he wanted to write, then he'd say it

as he wrote

> it.

>

> At first he'd struggle to get 2 paragraphs written (5th grade). By

the time

> he was in 6th grade he'd be writing at least a page. He could do

2-3 on a

> weekend. By 7th grade he only wrote in the journal on the

weekends and would

> fill 5 pages or so. The journal all but disappeared last year,

8th grade.

>

> The journal was like writing letters, something that as a society

we don't

> do very often any more. We pick up the phone, dask off a few

sentences in an

> email, add a couple words to a birthday card. We don't write that

much

> anymore.

>

> He writes on the computer (talking to himself as he types.) He'd

write a

> first draft and print it out double spaced. Then one of us

(usually me) would

> edit it. I'd circle words and write " pick a better word. " Or I'd

draw an arrow

> to a sentence and write things like " why? " and " who said that? "

and " tell me

> more " and " more details " and " more description. " In 5th grade it

took at

> least 3 drafts for him to write a 5 paragraph essay.

>

> And sometime, like for a book report, he'd just get so tired. He'd

work for

> a while every day for days in order to write any report. So, I'd

say " you talk

> and I'll type. " I would type exactly what he said. If he

said " red and blue

> and yellow and black " I'd type it. And when he read the printed

draft, he'd

> say " you know better then to write 'and' all the time. You need to

use

> commas. " And I'd say, " You never said 'comma,' you said 'and' so

I typed it. " That

> would make him think as he spoke, seeing the commas in his head as

he told me

> what to type.

>

> It was a helluva lot of work for this kid to learn to write. But

the best

> thing I ever told him was to write like he talked. One we got

words flowing

> onto the paper, he could edit it to be more exact, more

scientific, more correct

> -- whatever was needed. But first he had to get the words moving.

>

> And he had to get past his own fear. He thought he wrote badly

because he'd

> be criticized harshly for his efforts by his 4th and 5th grade

teachers and

> the SpecEd teachers. It turns that his wry sense of humor will

come across in

> his writing when he relaxes. We had to get him to the point where

he would

> stop trying to write and just do it. It was really REALLY hard

work.

>

> Best -- Jill

>

>

>