Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 OK, soapbox time again. I have no idea whether these ambulance firms are guilty or not, that's for the Feds to figure out. What I want to know is why that, everytime the Feds move in to investigats this stuff, it's all over the news. Ambulance firms, hospitals, doctors, etc, etc, ad nauseum, but never a word about the people that commit Medicare and Medicaid fraud every day. You all know the ones I'm talking about. The ones that use the ambulance as their personal taxi or that use the Emergency Room as their primary care physician instead of going to a clinic or Doctor. Back when I worked in the Emergency Room, I have actually had people tell me that they came there because they wouldn't have to wait like they did at the clinic. Never mind that the bill to Medicaid is going to be 10 times what it would have been, they didn't want to be inconvenienced. There was a move awhile back to make people on Medicaid that went to the ER for non-emergencies pay a copay. Thie was squashed by the know-it-alls in Washington because, they said, it would deprive children from getting needed medical care. Give me a break. It would just make Momma and Daddy get off their lazy butts and take the kids to the clinic during the day instead of wating until the kid got so sick he/she kept them awake at night. Excuse me, but a sore throat that the kid has had for 4 days is NOT an emergency and should have been taken care of a lot earlier. As long as we let these people get away with this crap, they'll milk it for all it's worth. I'll climb down now and give somebody else a chance. Sorry for the tirade folks. This is a subject that really ticks me off in case you couldn't tell LOL. Again, Merry Christmas Y'all Joe > > Subject: DeSoto: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare > fraud > > IRS looks into 2 DeSoto ambulance firms > Inquiry appears to focus on Medicare fraud allegations > > 12:00 AM CST on Thursday, December 15, 2005 > By HOLLY YAN / The Dallas Morning News > > The IRS is investigating at least two area ambulance companies, > apparently for possible Medicare fraud. > > The Internal Revenue Service and other authorities searched Citizen's > Care Ambulance Service in DeSoto and Doctor's Ambulance in DeSoto on > Wednesday. Officials seized computers and records from Citizen's Care > and towed about six ambulances from Doctor's. > > Corcoran, a spokeswoman for the IRS, said she could not comment > on an ongoing investigation and said official comment would have to > come > from the U.S. attorney's office. Kathy Colvin, a spokeswoman for the > U.S. attorney's office, could not be reached for comment. > > DeSoto police Capt. Ron said his department assisted the IRS in > the investigation at Citizen's Care. He said the investigation appeared > to focus on allegations of fraud. > > The president of Citizen's Care, Tony Wilkerson, said he's not > surprised > by the investigation. > > " I have disgruntled employees, " he said. " I'm not an easy person to > work > for because my expectations for people and what we do around here is > very high. Nobody likes my demeanor. I'm very arrogant at what I do. " > > Mr. Wilkerson said his company serves private clients, especially > elderly patients with chronic health problems, and does not work for > local fire departments. > > He said he has never participated in Medicare or Medicaid fraud, which > he said sometimes involves offering patients kickbacks for services or > changing records to appear to be eligible for government reimbursement. > > " In the private ambulance business, we deal with Medicare and Medicaid > on a day-to-day basis, " Mr. Wilkerson said. " Medicare has to make sure > everybody's on their p's and q's. " > > Mr. Wilkerson said officials did not order him to close his business > Wednesday. He said he was not sure why his friend Anura Andradi, owner > of Doctor's Ambulance, was forced to close after his business was also > searched. > > Mr. Andradi declined to comment on the investigation. Mr. Wilkerson > said > he is working with Mr. Andradi to determine how Doctor's Ambulance's > regular clients will receive care. > > Staff writer Herb Booth and Bert Lozano of WFAA-TV (Channel 8) > contributed to this report. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 I agree that there are a lot of people out there who do not correctly use health care services. However, to me, fraud implies deliberate actions to mislead. I'm not sure how calling 911 or making an ER trip constitutes fraud. However, billing the government for services not actually provided does constitute fraud. As for the individuals who misutilize EMS and the ER, aren't we failing as patient advocates when we don't explain their options to them? I'm never opposed to transporting or treating a patient, but I want them to be informed as to their options. I've been known to tell someone, " All we're going to do is give you a very expensive ride. " Happy Holidays, (there are a few of us non-Christian heathens out there....) Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT Austin, Texas DeSoto: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare > fraud > > IRS looks into 2 DeSoto ambulance firms > Inquiry appears to focus on Medicare fraud allegations > > 12:00 AM CST on Thursday, December 15, 2005 > By HOLLY YAN / The Dallas Morning News > > The IRS is investigating at least two area ambulance companies, > apparently for possible Medicare fraud. > > The Internal Revenue Service and other authorities searched Citizen's > Care Ambulance Service in DeSoto and Doctor's Ambulance in DeSoto on > Wednesday. Officials seized computers and records from Citizen's Care > and towed about six ambulances from Doctor's. > > Corcoran, a spokeswoman for the IRS, said she could not comment > on an ongoing investigation and said official comment would have to > come > from the U.S. attorney's office. Kathy Colvin, a spokeswoman for the > U.S. attorney's office, could not be reached for comment. > > DeSoto police Capt. Ron said his department assisted the IRS in > the investigation at Citizen's Care. He said the investigation appeared > to focus on allegations of fraud. > > The president of Citizen's Care, Tony Wilkerson, said he's not > surprised > by the investigation. > > " I have disgruntled employees, " he said. " I'm not an easy person to > work > for because my expectations for people and what we do around here is > very high. Nobody likes my demeanor. I'm very arrogant at what I do. " > > Mr. Wilkerson said his company serves private clients, especially > elderly patients with chronic health problems, and does not work for > local fire departments. > > He said he has never participated in Medicare or Medicaid fraud, which > he said sometimes involves offering patients kickbacks for services or > changing records to appear to be eligible for government reimbursement. > > " In the private ambulance business, we deal with Medicare and Medicaid > on a day-to-day basis, " Mr. Wilkerson said. " Medicare has to make sure > everybody's on their p's and q's. " > > Mr. Wilkerson said officials did not order him to close his business > Wednesday. He said he was not sure why his friend Anura Andradi, owner > of Doctor's Ambulance, was forced to close after his business was also > searched. > > Mr. Andradi declined to comment on the investigation. Mr. Wilkerson > said > he is working with Mr. Andradi to determine how Doctor's Ambulance's > regular clients will receive care. > > Staff writer Herb Booth and Bert Lozano of WFAA-TV (Channel 8) > contributed to this report. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 The president of Citizen's Care, Tony Wilkerson, said he's not surprised by the investigation. " I have disgruntled employees, " he said. " I'm not an easy person to work for because my expectations for people and what we do around here is very high. Nobody likes my demeanor. I'm very arrogant at what I do. " Gee---Could this guy's attitude as a manger have anything to do with why so many people get out of EMS????? Someone managing/directing other healthcare services or even a cracker factory will read this and think, " EMS must be a real Bozo hatchery " . -MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 There's a moral to this story.... disgruntled employees are a wonderful source of information for investigators. -Wes Ogilvie Re: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare fraud The president of Citizen's Care, Tony Wilkerson, said he's not surprised by the investigation. " I have disgruntled employees, " he said. " I'm not an easy person to work for because my expectations for people and what we do around here is very high. Nobody likes my demeanor. I'm very arrogant at what I do. " Gee---Could this guy's attitude as a manger have anything to do with why so many people get out of EMS????? Someone managing/directing other healthcare services or even a cracker factory will read this and think, " EMS must be a real Bozo hatchery " . -MH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 " Hudson " <mhudson@m...> wrote: > > Gee---Could this guy's attitude as a manger have anything to do with > why so many people get out of EMS????? Absolutely. But I think you are probably looking at it backwards. First of all, he's not in EMS. It's a transfer service. And second, I don't know this gentleman personally, but I do know the type of lazy, immature, uneducated slug that constitutes the great majority of EMT transfer jockeys in this state. Based upon that, I tend to believe that most of them leave because they are not up to the level of professionalism expected of them by their employer, and not vice versa. Not that there is any shortage of reasons to get out of EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 " Kim " <kim@w...> wrote: > > I couldn't let this go uncorrected. > > In front of me is a recently issued TDSHS license that (beyond the > name of the service) reads, " has submitted acceptable evidence of > compliance with the Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 773, the > Texas EMS Act, and is hereby granted a License as a TEXAS EMERGENCY > MEDICAL SERVICES PROVIDER. " All capitializations are present on > this document as written... I did not alter the words. Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and what you actually provide may well be two completely different things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, regardless of their licensure. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 " Kim " <kim@w...> wrote: > > I couldn't let this go uncorrected. > > In front of me is a recently issued TDSHS license that (beyond the > name of the service) reads, " has submitted acceptable evidence of > compliance with the Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 773, the > Texas EMS Act, and is hereby granted a License as a TEXAS EMERGENCY > MEDICAL SERVICES PROVIDER. " All capitializations are present on > this document as written... I did not alter the words. Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and what you actually provide may well be two completely different things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, regardless of their licensure. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Rob -- just to play semantics here (it is what lawyers do after all), is it possible that the real problem is the name EMERGENCY Medical Services? After all, many 911 calls aren't truly emergencies. For example, is the patient who calls 911 for a chest cold more of an emergency than the 85 year old female " merely " transferred from a small-town hospital to a large academic medical center due to an acute MI which needs bypass surgery immediately? We're all prehospital providers, right? -Wes Re: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare fraud " Kim " <kim@w...> wrote: > > I couldn't let this go uncorrected. > > In front of me is a recently issued TDSHS license that (beyond the > name of the service) reads, " has submitted acceptable evidence of > compliance with the Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 773, the > Texas EMS Act, and is hereby granted a License as a TEXAS EMERGENCY > MEDICAL SERVICES PROVIDER. " All capitializations are present on > this document as written... I did not alter the words. Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and what you actually provide may well be two completely different things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, regardless of their licensure. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Rob -- just to play semantics here (it is what lawyers do after all), is it possible that the real problem is the name EMERGENCY Medical Services? After all, many 911 calls aren't truly emergencies. For example, is the patient who calls 911 for a chest cold more of an emergency than the 85 year old female " merely " transferred from a small-town hospital to a large academic medical center due to an acute MI which needs bypass surgery immediately? We're all prehospital providers, right? -Wes Re: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare fraud " Kim " <kim@w...> wrote: > > I couldn't let this go uncorrected. > > In front of me is a recently issued TDSHS license that (beyond the > name of the service) reads, " has submitted acceptable evidence of > compliance with the Texas Health and Safety Code, Chapter 773, the > Texas EMS Act, and is hereby granted a License as a TEXAS EMERGENCY > MEDICAL SERVICES PROVIDER. " All capitializations are present on > this document as written... I did not alter the words. Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and what you actually provide may well be two completely different things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, regardless of their licensure. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 ExLngHrn@a... wrote: > > ...is it possible that the real problem is the name EMERGENCY > Medical Services? After all, many 911 calls aren't truly > emergencies. But the response is. And, unless you are the Dallas Fire Department, the place to determine whether or not an actual medical emergency exists is on the scene. Scene response = emergency. Unfortunately, as points out, the general public has no idea or interest in the semantics of the ambulance business. But I wouldn't use that as an excuse to dumb down our operations. > We're all prehospital providers, right? Absolutely! But that circles back to the same question: Providers of what? Transportation? That's about the only common denominator. Which goes back to the core issue of whether or not all these taxis should be required to license as " EMS " providers simply because their passengers don't sit upright. Without E and M, you are not providing EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Rob, allow me to correct your correction of Kim's correction. It is YOU playing the semantics game. The law is the law is the law. You can spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). Now, speaking for the manager (he called himself president, didn't he?) of this Citizens Care outfit, Mr. Tony Wilkerson, I can tell you a little. I never worked for Citizen's Care but I work now with a very fine paramedic that once did work for the gentleman. She tells me she worked all of two weeks then quit because of the condition of the ambulances and the equipment. She told me when she complained that the ambulances wouldn't meet code, Mr. Wilkerson called her everything but a nice girl. She walked out leaving her paycheck behind fearing for her safety. Mr. Wilkerson scared her enough she didn't care if she got paid. Disgruntled employees? I don't doubt it. -- > > Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One > only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really > takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and > what you actually provide may well be two completely different > things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over > a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, > regardless of their licensure. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Rob, allow me to correct your correction of Kim's correction. It is YOU playing the semantics game. The law is the law is the law. You can spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). Now, speaking for the manager (he called himself president, didn't he?) of this Citizens Care outfit, Mr. Tony Wilkerson, I can tell you a little. I never worked for Citizen's Care but I work now with a very fine paramedic that once did work for the gentleman. She tells me she worked all of two weeks then quit because of the condition of the ambulances and the equipment. She told me when she complained that the ambulances wouldn't meet code, Mr. Wilkerson called her everything but a nice girl. She walked out leaving her paycheck behind fearing for her safety. Mr. Wilkerson scared her enough she didn't care if she got paid. Disgruntled employees? I don't doubt it. -- > > Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One > only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really > takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and > what you actually provide may well be two completely different > things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over > a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, > regardless of their licensure. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Rob, allow me to correct your correction of Kim's correction. It is YOU playing the semantics game. The law is the law is the law. You can spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). Now, speaking for the manager (he called himself president, didn't he?) of this Citizens Care outfit, Mr. Tony Wilkerson, I can tell you a little. I never worked for Citizen's Care but I work now with a very fine paramedic that once did work for the gentleman. She tells me she worked all of two weeks then quit because of the condition of the ambulances and the equipment. She told me when she complained that the ambulances wouldn't meet code, Mr. Wilkerson called her everything but a nice girl. She walked out leaving her paycheck behind fearing for her safety. Mr. Wilkerson scared her enough she didn't care if she got paid. Disgruntled employees? I don't doubt it. -- > > Allow me to correct your correction. You're talking semantics. One > only need look at the Texas LP to see just how seriously DSHS really > takes the term " license. " And what you are licensed to provide and > what you actually provide may well be two completely different > things. I am licensed to fly airplanes, but I haven't done so in over > a decade. Similarly, transfer services are not providing EMS, > regardless of their licensure. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 " simple_emt " <simple_emt@y...> wrote: > > The law is the law is the law. You can > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we are not talking about standards. We are talking about services rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a job in EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 " simple_emt " <simple_emt@y...> wrote: > > The law is the law is the law. You can > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we are not talking about standards. We are talking about services rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a job in EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 dustdevil31 wrote: >And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. ------------- I don't understand all this hostility towards transfer services Rob. We're all playing on the same field here... remove all of the the afflilations and types of service, and down deep inside, we're all EMTs. Now I offer a question for you: If a volunteer service in a rural town runs two calls a day and transports the patients to the ER, are they an EMS? My answer is " yes " , and I think most would agree. The volunteer ambulance provides a necessary and valuable emergency medical service to the community. If you also agree with this, then I ask: If a transfer service runs ten calls a day, and two of those calls are nursing home patients who are in bad shape and require immediate treatment and transport to the ER, are we not also performing emergency medical duties for this small NH " community " ? If a nursing home patient presents with decreased LOC or SOB, is this not an emergent condition as well? So both services run two prehospital calls in this " day " . The only difference I can see is that one service responds to the scene lights and sirens, and the other does not (unless sent as a backup EMS unit). The equipment, education of the crews, regulations, and protocols are all the same. Kim Re: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare fraud " simple_emt " <simple_emt@y...> wrote: > > The law is the law is the law. You can > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we are not talking about standards. We are talking about services rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a job in EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Have to give you credit, Rob. For as long as you have been around you have never changed. You are today as you have always been. Pretty simple. Too bad. I hear you are a fair technician. --j > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service > is > > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You > may > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has > it? > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the > same > > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing > exists). > > I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we > are not talking about standards. We are talking about services > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter > who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a > job in EMS. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Have to give you credit, Rob. For as long as you have been around you have never changed. You are today as you have always been. Pretty simple. Too bad. I hear you are a fair technician. --j > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service > is > > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You > may > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has > it? > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the > same > > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing > exists). > > I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we > are not talking about standards. We are talking about services > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter > who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a > job in EMS. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Have to give you credit, Rob. For as long as you have been around you have never changed. You are today as you have always been. Pretty simple. Too bad. I hear you are a fair technician. --j > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service > is > > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You > may > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has > it? > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the > same > > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing > exists). > > I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we > are not talking about standards. We are talking about services > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter > who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a > job in EMS. > > Rob > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 dustdevil31 wrote: >And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. ------------- I don't understand all this hostility towards transfer services Rob. We're all playing on the same field here... remove all of the the afflilations and types of service, and down deep inside, we're all EMTs. Now I offer a question for you: If a volunteer service in a rural town runs two calls a day and transports the patients to the ER, are they an EMS? My answer is " yes " , and I think most would agree. The volunteer ambulance provides a necessary and valuable emergency medical service to the community. If you also agree with this, then I ask: If a transfer service runs ten calls a day, and two of those calls are nursing home patients who are in bad shape and require immediate treatment and transport to the ER, are we not also performing emergency medical duties for this small NH " community " ? If a nursing home patient presents with decreased LOC or SOB, is this not an emergent condition as well? So both services run two prehospital calls in this " day " . The only difference I can see is that one service responds to the scene lights and sirens, and the other does not (unless sent as a backup EMS unit). The equipment, education of the crews, regulations, and protocols are all the same. Kim Re: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare fraud " simple_emt " <simple_emt@y...> wrote: > > The law is the law is the law. You can > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we are not talking about standards. We are talking about services rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a job in EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 dustdevil31 wrote: >And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. ------------- I don't understand all this hostility towards transfer services Rob. We're all playing on the same field here... remove all of the the afflilations and types of service, and down deep inside, we're all EMTs. Now I offer a question for you: If a volunteer service in a rural town runs two calls a day and transports the patients to the ER, are they an EMS? My answer is " yes " , and I think most would agree. The volunteer ambulance provides a necessary and valuable emergency medical service to the community. If you also agree with this, then I ask: If a transfer service runs ten calls a day, and two of those calls are nursing home patients who are in bad shape and require immediate treatment and transport to the ER, are we not also performing emergency medical duties for this small NH " community " ? If a nursing home patient presents with decreased LOC or SOB, is this not an emergent condition as well? So both services run two prehospital calls in this " day " . The only difference I can see is that one service responds to the scene lights and sirens, and the other does not (unless sent as a backup EMS unit). The equipment, education of the crews, regulations, and protocols are all the same. Kim Re: IRS looks into 2 ambulance firms for possible Medicare fraud " simple_emt " <simple_emt@y...> wrote: > > The law is the law is the law. You can > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the service is > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer service, > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. You may > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, has it? > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet the same > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing exists). I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we are not talking about standards. We are talking about services rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed as an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a job in EMS. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Now thats FUNNY, Good ..No, GREAT response!!! > > > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the > service > > is > > > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer > service, > > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. > You > > may > > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, > has > > it? > > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet > the > > same > > > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing > > exists). > > > > I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am > > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we > > are not talking about standards. We are talking about services > > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a > > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter > > who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed > as > > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL > SERVICES, > > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. > > > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a > > job in EMS. > > > > Rob > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 Now thats FUNNY, Good ..No, GREAT response!!! > > > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > > spin it however you want and it matters not an iota if the > service > > is > > > a fire department, a hospital, or the skankiest transfer > service, > > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet the same burden. > You > > may > > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never helped in the past, > has > > it? > > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is required to meet > the > > same > > > standards as the first rate fire departments (if such a thing > > exists). > > > > I think I understand where your screen name comes from. And I am > > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for you. However, we > > are not talking about standards. We are talking about services > > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be put. If you are a > > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If you are a painter > > who never paints, you are not painting. And if you are licensed > as > > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering EMERGENCY MEDICAL > SERVICES, > > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the license. > > > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are uncomfortable with it, get a > > job in EMS. > > > > Rob > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 To Rob, Me thinks you need to back off.I have worked transfer E.M.S. and I have worked 911. Some of the best calls I have ever ran were transfers. I honed my assessment skills on n.h. pts.I can pick out a CHFer on a drop of a hat. If you dont think Transfers are EMS,get your backside on a Private Unit and run some calls. You will find that any trained baboon,yes you,can run a trauma call and plug holes and put on a splint. But a real medic can take that p 4 transfer that was dispatched as a general Medicine that is a 76 y/o whom has had a temp x 6 days with a hx of COPD,CHF,ESRD,and IDDM that has a decreased loc x 2 days but the LVN that meets you says HES NOT MY PT. I DONT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT HIM. And in the 15 to 30 min you are with him,you turn his condition in the right direction with a little lasix for the rales and rhonchi you hear upon listening to breath sounds. And the check of a d-stix = 56 mg/dl and the fact that the pt.son tells you that DAD WAS Dx W PNEUMONIA X 4 DAYS AGO AND THE STAFF HAS NOT BEEN TAKING CARE OF HIM,well,that is the difference between you and me.I still care. After 22 years of working the strees of many different area,both 911 and transfer,I still get up in the morning,proud as all get out,and put on my uniform and get after it.You need to really think about what you have said here. There are other professions you might be suited for,maybe something where your question might be 'WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT??????????' Thanks for playing. --- mwest2604 wrote: > Now thats FUNNY, Good ..No, GREAT response!!! > > > > > > > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > > > spin it however you want and it matters not an > iota if the > > service > > > is > > > > a fire department, a hospital, or the > skankiest transfer > > service, > > > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet > the same burden. > > You > > > may > > > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never > helped in the past, > > has > > > it? > > > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is > required to meet > > the > > > same > > > > standards as the first rate fire departments > (if such a thing > > > exists). > > > > > > I think I understand where your screen name > comes from. And I > am > > > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for > you. However, > we > > > are not talking about standards. We are talking > about services > > > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be > put. If you are > a > > > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If > you are a > painter > > > who never paints, you are not painting. And if > you are licensed > > as > > > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering > EMERGENCY MEDICAL > > SERVICES, > > > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the > license. > > > > > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are > uncomfortable with it, get > a > > > job in EMS. > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2005 Report Share Posted December 15, 2005 To Rob, Me thinks you need to back off.I have worked transfer E.M.S. and I have worked 911. Some of the best calls I have ever ran were transfers. I honed my assessment skills on n.h. pts.I can pick out a CHFer on a drop of a hat. If you dont think Transfers are EMS,get your backside on a Private Unit and run some calls. You will find that any trained baboon,yes you,can run a trauma call and plug holes and put on a splint. But a real medic can take that p 4 transfer that was dispatched as a general Medicine that is a 76 y/o whom has had a temp x 6 days with a hx of COPD,CHF,ESRD,and IDDM that has a decreased loc x 2 days but the LVN that meets you says HES NOT MY PT. I DONT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT HIM. And in the 15 to 30 min you are with him,you turn his condition in the right direction with a little lasix for the rales and rhonchi you hear upon listening to breath sounds. And the check of a d-stix = 56 mg/dl and the fact that the pt.son tells you that DAD WAS Dx W PNEUMONIA X 4 DAYS AGO AND THE STAFF HAS NOT BEEN TAKING CARE OF HIM,well,that is the difference between you and me.I still care. After 22 years of working the strees of many different area,both 911 and transfer,I still get up in the morning,proud as all get out,and put on my uniform and get after it.You need to really think about what you have said here. There are other professions you might be suited for,maybe something where your question might be 'WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT??????????' Thanks for playing. --- mwest2604 wrote: > Now thats FUNNY, Good ..No, GREAT response!!! > > > > > > > > > > The law is the law is the law. You can > > > > spin it however you want and it matters not an > iota if the > > service > > > is > > > > a fire department, a hospital, or the > skankiest transfer > > service, > > > > under the LAW they are EMS and must ALL meet > the same burden. > > You > > > may > > > > WISH it were otherwise, but that has never > helped in the past, > > has > > > it? > > > > Even this lowest of the low rent services is > required to meet > > the > > > same > > > > standards as the first rate fire departments > (if such a thing > > > exists). > > > > > > I think I understand where your screen name > comes from. And I > am > > > sorry that the concept is not simple enough for > you. However, > we > > > are not talking about standards. We are talking > about services > > > rendered. So here it is as simple as it can be > put. If you are > a > > > pilot, who never flies, you are not flying. If > you are a > painter > > > who never paints, you are not painting. And if > you are licensed > > as > > > an " EMS provider " but are not rendering > EMERGENCY MEDICAL > > SERVICES, > > > you are not in EMS. You're just holding the > license. > > > > > > Don't like that? Sorry. If you are > uncomfortable with it, get > a > > > job in EMS. > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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