Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:03:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, airmedic51@... writes: I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade. Not in any system I ever worked in or even rode out with. In fact in MOST of those systems it was a BANNED procedure except maybe in the case of expedited MCI uses. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:22:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, L@... writes: " Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color? Lee Tack a look at the MSDS sheets for the adhesives used in duct tape and those used on tapes designed for medical use and I am serious I have seen policy memos that used the term BANNED with the possible exception of MCI response, I wish I could recall what service that was but I'm too old and or tired at this late hour. It may come to me later of course this time tomorrow I'll be in another country with no Net access for 2 weeks. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade. hypnoron@... wrote: Hello gang, I have found duct tape to be very useful and can be applied very quickly. If you run into multiple victims, it does come in very handy. I hope the tape you currently use isn't the silver stuff you find at Home Depot. They " tape manufactures " have a mil spec that is " medical tape " it comes in white. It can be a little bit of a tangle with medical gloves on, but when you get used to it, it works great. The price is right, and it can't be stolen from the hospital. How many spider straps do you have to loose before going to tape? Happy Thanksgiving, God Bless all of your families! Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Nylon rescue webbing is more secure, easier to apply, does not stick to gloves and is reusable. It can also be easily sized to patients and applied through the loops on backboards to provide a safer pattern of securing someone. As a bonus, is also works well in the rain. Liability-wise, is your tape manufacturer willing to put a load rating on its tape? Nylon rescue webbing comes with an ANSI standard load rating. Also, will that load rating apply to the " hold point " where the tape " sticks " to the backboard? Which would you rather have your patient secured with when your ambulance flips over and that 350 lb patient is now directly over your head? Mike > Hello gang, > > > I have found duct tape to be very useful and can be applied very quickly. If > you run into multiple victims, it does come in very handy. I hope the tape > you currently use isn't the silver stuff you find at Home Depot. They " tape > manufactures " have a mil spec that is " medical tape " it comes in white. It can > be a little bit of a tangle with medical gloves on, but when you get used to > it, it works great. The price is right, and it can't be stolen from the > hospital. How many spider straps do you have to loose before going to tape? > > Happy Thanksgiving, God Bless all of your families! > > > Ron > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 > I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade. Duct tape is most definitely not the norm for patient restraint (although it does a good job restraining their clothes, they still slide around inside their clothes), and is very professional when fixing air ducts. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 " Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color? Lee Re: Duct Tape In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:03:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, airmedic51@... writes: I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade. Not in any system I ever worked in or even rode out with. In fact in MOST of those systems it was a BANNED procedure except maybe in the case of expedited MCI uses. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 And whyy was it banned? Salvador Capuchino EMT-P --- lnmolino@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:03:11 P.M. Central > Standard Time, > airmedic51@... writes: > > I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, > you have those who > perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade. > > > Not in any system I ever worked in or even rode out > with. In fact in MOST of > those systems it was a BANNED procedure except maybe > in the case of > expedited MCI uses. > > Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET > FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI > LNMolino@... > (Office) > (Cell Phone) > (Office Fax) > > " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " > > The comments contained in this E-mail are the > opinions of the author and the > author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for > any person or > organization that I am in any way whatsoever > involved or associated with unless I > specifically state that I am doing so. Further this > E-mail is intended only for its > stated recipient and may contain private and or > confidential materials > retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed > in the public domain by the > original author. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Actually... I hope that the patient is secured using the 5-point restraint designed for the stretcher... ;-) jack Re: Duct Tape Which would you rather have your patient secured with when your ambulance flips over and that 350 lb patient is now directly over your head? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Lee wrote: " Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color? It doesn't stretch, much (couldn't pass that play on words) When the purpose is to protect the spine, and the cervical area is most secured (head-bed, etc) compared to tape on the greater mass of the patient and the remainder of the patient moves, the c-spine becomes a fulcrum. Not what you want. Larry RN LP Houston --------------------------------- Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of lnmolino@... Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:29 PM To: Subject: Re: Duct Tape In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:22:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, L@... writes: " Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color? Lee Tack a look at the MSDS sheets for the adhesives used in duct tape and those used on tapes designed for medical use and I am serious I have seen policy memos that used the term BANNED with the possible exception of MCI response, I wish I could recall what service that was but I'm too old and or tired at this late hour. It may come to me later of course this time tomorrow I'll be in another country with no Net access for 2 weeks. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " _____ From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of lnmolino@... Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:29 PM To: Subject: Re: Duct Tape In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:22:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, L@... writes: " Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color? Lee Tack a look at the MSDS sheets for the adhesives used in duct tape and those used on tapes designed for medical use and I am serious I have seen policy memos that used the term BANNED with the possible exception of MCI response, I wish I could recall what service that was but I'm too old and or tired at this late hour. It may come to me later of course this time tomorrow I'll be in another country with no Net access for 2 weeks. Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI LNMolino@... (Office) (Cell Phone) (Office Fax) " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude " The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless I specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for its stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the original author. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hello to all, The white duct tape, aka " Medical duct tape " is commonly use by a good number of EMS services. In regards to spinal immobilization, it's typically used to secure the head and/or perhaps the lower extremities. However, it is not recommended for the torso. We have to look at the perspective of, what is the purpose of spinal immobilization? To secure a patient onto a backboard to minimize excessive movement to the spine, the ability to rotate the backboard to prevent aspiration, the ability to carry the patient down a flight of stairs without compromising the spine, and the ability to secure the patient in all inclement weather. About two years ago, our EMS service went to webbing due to the cost. The cost of straps were too expensive, especially when the hospital would cut them up to pieces and/or they disappeared from the hospital. Opportunity from a bad situation. I sat down a developed a method of using webbing for spinal immobilization with the following goals: 1. Secure the patient and minimize movement, 2. Can be applied to the patient in less than a minute by one medic, and 3. Can be removed from the patient in less than 15 seconds. It works great. If you are interested in this method, " Loop and Lock, " let me know. Max Nguyen City of Beaumont Public Health - EMS Clinical Supervisor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hello to all, The white duct tape, aka " Medical duct tape " is commonly use by a good number of EMS services. In regards to spinal immobilization, it's typically used to secure the head and/or perhaps the lower extremities. However, it is not recommended for the torso. We have to look at the perspective of, what is the purpose of spinal immobilization? To secure a patient onto a backboard to minimize excessive movement to the spine, the ability to rotate the backboard to prevent aspiration, the ability to carry the patient down a flight of stairs without compromising the spine, and the ability to secure the patient in all inclement weather. About two years ago, our EMS service went to webbing due to the cost. The cost of straps were too expensive, especially when the hospital would cut them up to pieces and/or they disappeared from the hospital. Opportunity from a bad situation. I sat down a developed a method of using webbing for spinal immobilization with the following goals: 1. Secure the patient and minimize movement, 2. Can be applied to the patient in less than a minute by one medic, and 3. Can be removed from the patient in less than 15 seconds. It works great. If you are interested in this method, " Loop and Lock, " let me know. Max Nguyen City of Beaumont Public Health - EMS Clinical Supervisor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 24, 2005 Report Share Posted November 24, 2005 Hello to all, The white duct tape, aka " Medical duct tape " is commonly use by a good number of EMS services. In regards to spinal immobilization, it's typically used to secure the head and/or perhaps the lower extremities. However, it is not recommended for the torso. We have to look at the perspective of, what is the purpose of spinal immobilization? To secure a patient onto a backboard to minimize excessive movement to the spine, the ability to rotate the backboard to prevent aspiration, the ability to carry the patient down a flight of stairs without compromising the spine, and the ability to secure the patient in all inclement weather. About two years ago, our EMS service went to webbing due to the cost. The cost of straps were too expensive, especially when the hospital would cut them up to pieces and/or they disappeared from the hospital. Opportunity from a bad situation. I sat down a developed a method of using webbing for spinal immobilization with the following goals: 1. Secure the patient and minimize movement, 2. Can be applied to the patient in less than a minute by one medic, and 3. Can be removed from the patient in less than 15 seconds. It works great. If you are interested in this method, " Loop and Lock, " let me know. Max Nguyen City of Beaumont Public Health - EMS Clinical Supervisor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 > > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " > Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 > > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " > Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 > > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " > Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Ok... effective January 1, Medicare will not allow 'additional' charges under Method 4 billing rules (base rate, mileage, supplies/services) which would cover this service. Other insurance companies will 'take the hint' and move EMS reimbursement to a base rate/mileage only fee schedule. Jack Re: Duct Tape Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Ok... effective January 1, Medicare will not allow 'additional' charges under Method 4 billing rules (base rate, mileage, supplies/services) which would cover this service. Other insurance companies will 'take the hint' and move EMS reimbursement to a base rate/mileage only fee schedule. Jack Re: Duct Tape Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) Alfonso R. Ochoa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 EMS eats its own? Never, perish the thought! Next thing you know, I'll hear that there's gambling in Casablanca. Seriously, the public/private debate is an old one. I've found that the service model matters a lot less than the committment from management and the medical director to " do the right thing. " -Wes Ogilvie In a message dated 11/25/2005 1:05:23 PM Central Standard Time, kim@... writes: --------------- In Reply To: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) --------------- End of Quote -------------------------------------------------------------- I really try to stay quiet around here, but afraid that it's not going to work this time. No wonder I've recently read here that EMS appears to " eat its own " . As a whole, we scream, yell, and pound fists on the table to demand recognition from the world as unified medical professionals: EMS. And yet in the same room, we find ourselves separated simply by the type of service we work for. We are all certified to at least a statewide standard of education and skills, no matter what service employs us... city, private, fire, or volunteer. No one with a heart and a humble ego immobilizes anyone for their own selfish pleasure or to gain from insurance. And as I've easily found by a simple web search, CMS does not reimburse for immobilization no matter what service you work for. For reference, please see http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798 (www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798). I truncated the very extensive list to just the immobilization procedures below: From CMS carrier Trailblazer Health: > " The following supplies are considered part of the transport and a separate charge is not reimbursable by Medicare and not billable to the patient. >>> Back board. >>> CID (cervical immobilization device, C-collar, cervical collar). >>> Inflatable arm or leg splint. >>> Minor extrication. >>> Neck board (neck brace). " Please pass the Real Tree camo-colored duct tape, and I'll try to sit here quiet and camoflaged a while more. ;-) K. Pelletier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 EMS eats its own? Never, perish the thought! Next thing you know, I'll hear that there's gambling in Casablanca. Seriously, the public/private debate is an old one. I've found that the service model matters a lot less than the committment from management and the medical director to " do the right thing. " -Wes Ogilvie In a message dated 11/25/2005 1:05:23 PM Central Standard Time, kim@... writes: --------------- In Reply To: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) --------------- End of Quote -------------------------------------------------------------- I really try to stay quiet around here, but afraid that it's not going to work this time. No wonder I've recently read here that EMS appears to " eat its own " . As a whole, we scream, yell, and pound fists on the table to demand recognition from the world as unified medical professionals: EMS. And yet in the same room, we find ourselves separated simply by the type of service we work for. We are all certified to at least a statewide standard of education and skills, no matter what service employs us... city, private, fire, or volunteer. No one with a heart and a humble ego immobilizes anyone for their own selfish pleasure or to gain from insurance. And as I've easily found by a simple web search, CMS does not reimburse for immobilization no matter what service you work for. For reference, please see http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798 (www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798). I truncated the very extensive list to just the immobilization procedures below: From CMS carrier Trailblazer Health: > " The following supplies are considered part of the transport and a separate charge is not reimbursable by Medicare and not billable to the patient. >>> Back board. >>> CID (cervical immobilization device, C-collar, cervical collar). >>> Inflatable arm or leg splint. >>> Minor extrication. >>> Neck board (neck brace). " Please pass the Real Tree camo-colored duct tape, and I'll try to sit here quiet and camoflaged a while more. ;-) K. Pelletier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 EMS eats its own? Never, perish the thought! Next thing you know, I'll hear that there's gambling in Casablanca. Seriously, the public/private debate is an old one. I've found that the service model matters a lot less than the committment from management and the medical director to " do the right thing. " -Wes Ogilvie In a message dated 11/25/2005 1:05:23 PM Central Standard Time, kim@... writes: --------------- In Reply To: ---------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) --------------- End of Quote -------------------------------------------------------------- I really try to stay quiet around here, but afraid that it's not going to work this time. No wonder I've recently read here that EMS appears to " eat its own " . As a whole, we scream, yell, and pound fists on the table to demand recognition from the world as unified medical professionals: EMS. And yet in the same room, we find ourselves separated simply by the type of service we work for. We are all certified to at least a statewide standard of education and skills, no matter what service employs us... city, private, fire, or volunteer. No one with a heart and a humble ego immobilizes anyone for their own selfish pleasure or to gain from insurance. And as I've easily found by a simple web search, CMS does not reimburse for immobilization no matter what service you work for. For reference, please see http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798 (www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798). I truncated the very extensive list to just the immobilization procedures below: From CMS carrier Trailblazer Health: > " The following supplies are considered part of the transport and a separate charge is not reimbursable by Medicare and not billable to the patient. >>> Back board. >>> CID (cervical immobilization device, C-collar, cervical collar). >>> Inflatable arm or leg splint. >>> Minor extrication. >>> Neck board (neck brace). " Please pass the Real Tree camo-colored duct tape, and I'll try to sit here quiet and camoflaged a while more. ;-) K. Pelletier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 Alfonso, Please connect the dots between Dr. Bledsoe's encouraging services to adopt a selective spinal immobilization protocol and your assertion that private providers depends on backboarding patients as a revenue source. More specifically, are you trying to make a point or even a stab in the dark that private providers are more likely to continue backboarding patients then are tax funded providers? Are you saying that the Medical Director's of private services are not capable or willing to provide a selective spinal immobilization protocol? Or maybe you have determined that all tax funded services have a selective spinal immobilization protocol. Without my test either of those theories, I would bet they are both without validity. If you are taking that sort of a swipe at various providers, what information do you hold that would support that sort of a statement? My question to you Alfonso, what did you mean by your comment? bkw > > > > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in > Texas > > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of > looking > > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS > students to the > > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We > > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a > blue > > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " > > > > Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private > providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) > > Alfonso R. Ochoa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 I have been out of the billing side of EMS for a while, but, I am fairly sure that you cannot bill for itemized procedures such as immobilization any longer. There are several professional EMS billing people on the list, maybe they will educate us on the latest information. Lee Re: Duct Tape Alfonso, Please connect the dots between Dr. Bledsoe's encouraging services to adopt a selective spinal immobilization protocol and your assertion that private providers depends on backboarding patients as a revenue source. More specifically, are you trying to make a point or even a stab in the dark that private providers are more likely to continue backboarding patients then are tax funded providers? Are you saying that the Medical Director's of private services are not capable or willing to provide a selective spinal immobilization protocol? Or maybe you have determined that all tax funded services have a selective spinal immobilization protocol. Without my test either of those theories, I would bet they are both without validity. If you are taking that sort of a swipe at various providers, what information do you hold that would support that sort of a statement? My question to you Alfonso, what did you mean by your comment? bkw > > > > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in > Texas > > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of > looking > > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS > students to the > > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We > > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a > blue > > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " > > > > Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private > providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) > > Alfonso R. Ochoa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2005 Report Share Posted November 25, 2005 I have been out of the billing side of EMS for a while, but, I am fairly sure that you cannot bill for itemized procedures such as immobilization any longer. There are several professional EMS billing people on the list, maybe they will educate us on the latest information. Lee Re: Duct Tape Alfonso, Please connect the dots between Dr. Bledsoe's encouraging services to adopt a selective spinal immobilization protocol and your assertion that private providers depends on backboarding patients as a revenue source. More specifically, are you trying to make a point or even a stab in the dark that private providers are more likely to continue backboarding patients then are tax funded providers? Are you saying that the Medical Director's of private services are not capable or willing to provide a selective spinal immobilization protocol? Or maybe you have determined that all tax funded services have a selective spinal immobilization protocol. Without my test either of those theories, I would bet they are both without validity. If you are taking that sort of a swipe at various providers, what information do you hold that would support that sort of a statement? My question to you Alfonso, what did you mean by your comment? bkw > > > > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in > Texas > > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of > looking > > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS > students to the > > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We > > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a > blue > > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch " > > > > Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private > providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-) > > Alfonso R. Ochoa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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