Re: Duct Tape

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:03:11 P.M. Central Standard Time,

airmedic51@... writes:

I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who

perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade.

Not in any system I ever worked in or even rode out with. In fact in MOST of

those systems it was a BANNED procedure except maybe in the case of

expedited MCI uses.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:22:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,

L@... writes:

" Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct

tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color?

Lee

Tack a look at the MSDS sheets for the adhesives used in duct tape and those

used on tapes designed for medical use and I am serious I have seen policy

memos that used the term BANNED with the possible exception of MCI response, I

wish I could recall what service that was but I'm too old and or tired at

this late hour. It may come to me later of course this time tomorrow I'll be in

another country with no Net access for 2 weeks.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with unless

I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only for

its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by the

original author.

[Guest guest]

I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who perceive

it as an unprofessional tool of the trade.

hypnoron@... wrote:

Hello gang,

I have found duct tape to be very useful and can be applied very quickly. If

you run into multiple victims, it does come in very handy. I hope the tape

you currently use isn't the silver stuff you find at Home Depot. They " tape

manufactures " have a mil spec that is " medical tape " it comes in white. It can

be a little bit of a tangle with medical gloves on, but when you get used to

it, it works great. The price is right, and it can't be stolen from the

hospital. How many spider straps do you have to loose before going to tape?

Happy Thanksgiving, God Bless all of your families!

Ron

[Guest guest]

Nylon rescue webbing is more secure, easier to apply, does not stick

to gloves and is reusable. It can also be easily sized to patients

and applied through the loops on backboards to provide a safer pattern

of securing someone. As a bonus, is also works well in the rain.

Liability-wise, is your tape manufacturer willing to put a load rating

on its tape? Nylon rescue webbing comes with an ANSI standard load

rating. Also, will that load rating apply to the " hold point " where

the tape " sticks " to the backboard? Which would you rather have your

patient secured with when your ambulance flips over and that 350 lb

patient is now directly over your head?

Mike

> Hello gang,

>

>

> I have found duct tape to be very useful and can be applied very quickly. If

> you run into multiple victims, it does come in very handy. I hope the tape

> you currently use isn't the silver stuff you find at Home Depot. They " tape

> manufactures " have a mil spec that is " medical tape " it comes in white. It

can

> be a little bit of a tangle with medical gloves on, but when you get used to

> it, it works great. The price is right, and it can't be stolen from the

> hospital. How many spider straps do you have to loose before going to tape?

>

> Happy Thanksgiving, God Bless all of your families!

>

>

> Ron

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who

perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade.

Duct tape is most definitely not the norm for patient restraint

(although it does a good job restraining their clothes, they still

slide around inside their clothes), and is very professional when

fixing air ducts.

Mike

[Guest guest]

" Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct

tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color?

Lee

Re: Duct Tape

In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:03:11 P.M. Central Standard Time,

airmedic51@... writes:

I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately, you have those who

perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade.

Not in any system I ever worked in or even rode out with. In fact in MOST

of

those systems it was a BANNED procedure except maybe in the case of

expedited MCI uses.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Guest guest]

And whyy was it banned?

Salvador Capuchino

EMT-P

--- lnmolino@... wrote:

>

>

> In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:03:11 P.M. Central

> Standard Time,

> airmedic51@... writes:

>

> I think duct tape is " the norm " But, unfortunately,

> you have those who

> perceive it as an unprofessional tool of the trade.

>

>

> Not in any system I ever worked in or even rode out

> with. In fact in MOST of

> those systems it was a BANNED procedure except maybe

> in the case of

> expedited MCI uses.

>

> Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

> FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

> LNMolino@...

> (Office)

> (Cell Phone)

> (Office Fax)

>

> " A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

>

> The comments contained in this E-mail are the

> opinions of the author and the

> author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for

> any person or

> organization that I am in any way whatsoever

> involved or associated with unless I

> specifically state that I am doing so. Further this

> E-mail is intended only for its

> stated recipient and may contain private and or

> confidential materials

> retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed

> in the public domain by the

> original author.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Actually... I hope that the patient is secured using the 5-point restraint

designed for the stretcher... ;-)

jack

Re: Duct Tape

Which would you rather have your

patient secured with when your ambulance flips over and that 350 lb

patient is now directly over your head?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Lee wrote: " Banned " ? I think that

is a stretch. What is the difference between duct

tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color?

It doesn't stretch, much (couldn't pass that play on words)

When the purpose is to protect the spine, and the cervical area is most

secured (head-bed, etc) compared to tape on the greater mass of the patient and

the remainder of the patient moves, the c-spine becomes a fulcrum. Not what you

want.

Larry RN LP

Houston

---------------------------------

Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less

[Guest guest]

This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas

used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking

at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the

ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We

used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue

moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:29 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Duct Tape

In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:22:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,

L@... writes:

" Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct

tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color?

Lee

Tack a look at the MSDS sheets for the adhesives used in duct tape and

those

used on tapes designed for medical use and I am serious I have seen policy

memos that used the term BANNED with the possible exception of MCI

response, I

wish I could recall what service that was but I'm too old and or tired at

this late hour. It may come to me later of course this time tomorrow I'll

be in

another country with no Net access for 2 weeks.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Guest guest]

This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in Texas

used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of looking

at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS students to the

ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We

used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a blue

moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of lnmolino@...

Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 10:29 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Duct Tape

In a message dated 11/24/2005 8:22:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,

L@... writes:

" Banned " ? I think that is a stretch. What is the difference between duct

tape and the tape that comes with the Sta-Block CID except the color?

Lee

Tack a look at the MSDS sheets for the adhesives used in duct tape and

those

used on tapes designed for medical use and I am serious I have seen policy

memos that used the term BANNED with the possible exception of MCI

response, I

wish I could recall what service that was but I'm too old and or tired at

this late hour. It may come to me later of course this time tomorrow I'll

be in

another country with no Net access for 2 weeks.

Louis N. Molino, Sr., CET

FF/NREMT-B/FSI/EMSI

LNMolino@...

(Office)

(Cell Phone)

(Office Fax)

" A Texan with a Jersey Attitude "

The comments contained in this E-mail are the opinions of the author and

the

author alone. I in no way ever intend to speak for any person or

organization that I am in any way whatsoever involved or associated with

unless I

specifically state that I am doing so. Further this E-mail is intended only

for its

stated recipient and may contain private and or confidential materials

retransmission is strictly prohibited unless placed in the public domain by

the

original author.

[Guest guest]

Hello to all,

The white duct tape, aka " Medical duct tape " is commonly use by a good

number of EMS services. In regards to spinal immobilization, it's typically

used

to secure the head and/or perhaps the lower extremities. However, it is not

recommended for the torso. We have to look at the perspective of, what is

the purpose of spinal immobilization? To secure a patient onto a backboard to

minimize excessive movement to the spine, the ability to rotate the backboard

to prevent aspiration, the ability to carry the patient down a flight of

stairs without compromising the spine, and the ability to secure the patient in

all inclement weather.

About two years ago, our EMS service went to webbing due to the cost. The

cost of straps were too expensive, especially when the hospital would cut them

up to pieces and/or they disappeared from the hospital.

Opportunity from a bad situation. I sat down a developed a method of using

webbing for spinal immobilization with the following goals: 1. Secure the

patient and minimize movement, 2. Can be applied to the patient in less than

a minute by one medic, and 3. Can be removed from the patient in less than

15 seconds.

It works great. If you are interested in this method, " Loop and Lock, " let

me know.

Max Nguyen

City of Beaumont Public Health - EMS

Clinical Supervisor

[Guest guest]

Hello to all,

The white duct tape, aka " Medical duct tape " is commonly use by a good

number of EMS services. In regards to spinal immobilization, it's typically

used

to secure the head and/or perhaps the lower extremities. However, it is not

recommended for the torso. We have to look at the perspective of, what is

the purpose of spinal immobilization? To secure a patient onto a backboard to

minimize excessive movement to the spine, the ability to rotate the backboard

to prevent aspiration, the ability to carry the patient down a flight of

stairs without compromising the spine, and the ability to secure the patient in

all inclement weather.

About two years ago, our EMS service went to webbing due to the cost. The

cost of straps were too expensive, especially when the hospital would cut them

up to pieces and/or they disappeared from the hospital.

Opportunity from a bad situation. I sat down a developed a method of using

webbing for spinal immobilization with the following goals: 1. Secure the

patient and minimize movement, 2. Can be applied to the patient in less than

a minute by one medic, and 3. Can be removed from the patient in less than

15 seconds.

It works great. If you are interested in this method, " Loop and Lock, " let

me know.

Max Nguyen

City of Beaumont Public Health - EMS

Clinical Supervisor

[Guest guest]

Hello to all,

The white duct tape, aka " Medical duct tape " is commonly use by a good

number of EMS services. In regards to spinal immobilization, it's typically

used

to secure the head and/or perhaps the lower extremities. However, it is not

recommended for the torso. We have to look at the perspective of, what is

the purpose of spinal immobilization? To secure a patient onto a backboard to

minimize excessive movement to the spine, the ability to rotate the backboard

to prevent aspiration, the ability to carry the patient down a flight of

stairs without compromising the spine, and the ability to secure the patient in

all inclement weather.

About two years ago, our EMS service went to webbing due to the cost. The

cost of straps were too expensive, especially when the hospital would cut them

up to pieces and/or they disappeared from the hospital.

Opportunity from a bad situation. I sat down a developed a method of using

webbing for spinal immobilization with the following goals: 1. Secure the

patient and minimize movement, 2. Can be applied to the patient in less than

a minute by one medic, and 3. Can be removed from the patient in less than

15 seconds.

It works great. If you are interested in this method, " Loop and Lock, " let

me know.

Max Nguyen

City of Beaumont Public Health - EMS

Clinical Supervisor

[Guest guest]

>

> This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in

Texas

> used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of

looking

> at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS

students to the

> ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We

> used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a

blue

> moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

>

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

Alfonso R. Ochoa

[Guest guest]

>

> This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in

Texas

> used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of

looking

> at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS

students to the

> ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We

> used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a

blue

> moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

>

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

Alfonso R. Ochoa

[Guest guest]

>

> This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services in

Texas

> used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies. Instead of

looking

> at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS

students to the

> ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are backboards. We

> used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once in a

blue

> moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

>

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

Alfonso R. Ochoa

[Guest guest]

Ok... effective January 1, Medicare will not allow 'additional' charges under

Method 4 billing rules (base rate, mileage, supplies/services) which would cover

this service. Other insurance companies will 'take the hint' and move EMS

reimbursement to a base rate/mileage only fee schedule.

Jack

Re: Duct Tape

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

Alfonso R. Ochoa

[Guest guest]

Ok... effective January 1, Medicare will not allow 'additional' charges under

Method 4 billing rules (base rate, mileage, supplies/services) which would cover

this service. Other insurance companies will 'take the hint' and move EMS

reimbursement to a base rate/mileage only fee schedule.

Jack

Re: Duct Tape

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

Alfonso R. Ochoa

[Guest guest]

EMS eats its own? Never, perish the thought! Next thing you know, I'll

hear that there's gambling in Casablanca.

Seriously, the public/private debate is an old one. I've found that the

service model matters a lot less than the committment from management and the

medical director to " do the right thing. "

-Wes Ogilvie

In a message dated 11/25/2005 1:05:23 PM Central Standard Time,

kim@... writes:

--------------- In Reply To:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

--------------- End of Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------

I really try to stay quiet around here, but afraid that it's not going to

work this time.

No wonder I've recently read here that EMS appears to " eat its own " . As a

whole, we scream, yell, and pound fists on the table to demand recognition

from the world as unified medical professionals: EMS. And yet in the same

room,

we find ourselves separated simply by the type of service we work for.

We are all certified to at least a statewide standard of education and

skills, no matter what service employs us... city, private, fire, or volunteer.

No one with a heart and a humble ego immobilizes anyone for their own selfish

pleasure or to gain from insurance. And as I've easily found by a simple web

search, CMS does not reimburse for immobilization no matter what service you

work for. For reference, please see

http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798

(www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798). I truncated the

very extensive list to just the

immobilization procedures below:

From CMS carrier Trailblazer Health:

> " The following supplies are considered part of the transport and a separate

charge is not reimbursable by Medicare and not billable to the patient.

>>> Back board.

>>> CID (cervical immobilization device, C-collar, cervical collar).

>>> Inflatable arm or leg splint.

>>> Minor extrication.

>>> Neck board (neck brace). "

Please pass the Real Tree camo-colored duct tape, and I'll try to sit here

quiet and camoflaged a while more. ;-)

K. Pelletier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

EMS eats its own? Never, perish the thought! Next thing you know, I'll

hear that there's gambling in Casablanca.

Seriously, the public/private debate is an old one. I've found that the

service model matters a lot less than the committment from management and the

medical director to " do the right thing. "

-Wes Ogilvie

In a message dated 11/25/2005 1:05:23 PM Central Standard Time,

kim@... writes:

--------------- In Reply To:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

--------------- End of Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------

I really try to stay quiet around here, but afraid that it's not going to

work this time.

No wonder I've recently read here that EMS appears to " eat its own " . As a

whole, we scream, yell, and pound fists on the table to demand recognition

from the world as unified medical professionals: EMS. And yet in the same

room,

we find ourselves separated simply by the type of service we work for.

We are all certified to at least a statewide standard of education and

skills, no matter what service employs us... city, private, fire, or volunteer.

No one with a heart and a humble ego immobilizes anyone for their own selfish

pleasure or to gain from insurance. And as I've easily found by a simple web

search, CMS does not reimburse for immobilization no matter what service you

work for. For reference, please see

http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798

(www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798). I truncated the

very extensive list to just the

immobilization procedures below:

From CMS carrier Trailblazer Health:

> " The following supplies are considered part of the transport and a separate

charge is not reimbursable by Medicare and not billable to the patient.

>>> Back board.

>>> CID (cervical immobilization device, C-collar, cervical collar).

>>> Inflatable arm or leg splint.

>>> Minor extrication.

>>> Neck board (neck brace). "

Please pass the Real Tree camo-colored duct tape, and I'll try to sit here

quiet and camoflaged a while more. ;-)

K. Pelletier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

EMS eats its own? Never, perish the thought! Next thing you know, I'll

hear that there's gambling in Casablanca.

Seriously, the public/private debate is an old one. I've found that the

service model matters a lot less than the committment from management and the

medical director to " do the right thing. "

-Wes Ogilvie

In a message dated 11/25/2005 1:05:23 PM Central Standard Time,

kim@... writes:

--------------- In Reply To:

----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the private

providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

--------------- End of Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------

I really try to stay quiet around here, but afraid that it's not going to

work this time.

No wonder I've recently read here that EMS appears to " eat its own " . As a

whole, we scream, yell, and pound fists on the table to demand recognition

from the world as unified medical professionals: EMS. And yet in the same

room,

we find ourselves separated simply by the type of service we work for.

We are all certified to at least a statewide standard of education and

skills, no matter what service employs us... city, private, fire, or volunteer.

No one with a heart and a humble ego immobilizes anyone for their own selfish

pleasure or to gain from insurance. And as I've easily found by a simple web

search, CMS does not reimburse for immobilization no matter what service you

work for. For reference, please see

http://www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798

(www.trailblazerhealth.com/notices.asp?action=detail & id=1798). I truncated the

very extensive list to just the

immobilization procedures below:

From CMS carrier Trailblazer Health:

> " The following supplies are considered part of the transport and a separate

charge is not reimbursable by Medicare and not billable to the patient.

>>> Back board.

>>> CID (cervical immobilization device, C-collar, cervical collar).

>>> Inflatable arm or leg splint.

>>> Minor extrication.

>>> Neck board (neck brace). "

Please pass the Real Tree camo-colored duct tape, and I'll try to sit here

quiet and camoflaged a while more. ;-)

K. Pelletier

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Guest guest]

Alfonso,

Please connect the dots between Dr. Bledsoe's encouraging services

to adopt a selective spinal immobilization protocol and your

assertion that private providers depends on backboarding patients as

a revenue source.

More specifically, are you trying to make a point or even a stab in

the dark that private providers are more likely to continue

backboarding patients then are tax funded providers?

Are you saying that the Medical Director's of private services are

not capable or willing to provide a selective spinal immobilization

protocol? Or maybe you have determined that all tax funded services

have a selective spinal immobilization protocol. Without my test

either of those theories, I would bet they are both without validity.

If you are taking that sort of a swipe at various providers, what

information do you hold that would support that sort of a

statement?

My question to you Alfonso, what did you mean by your comment?

bkw

> >

> > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services

in

> Texas

> > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies.

Instead of

> looking

> > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS

> students to the

> > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are

backboards. We

> > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once

in a

> blue

> > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

> >

>

> Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the

private

> providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

>

> Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

[Guest guest]

I have been out of the billing side of EMS for a while, but, I am fairly

sure that you cannot bill for itemized procedures such as immobilization any

longer. There are several professional EMS billing people on the list, maybe

they will educate us on the latest information.

Lee

Re: Duct Tape

Alfonso,

Please connect the dots between Dr. Bledsoe's encouraging services

to adopt a selective spinal immobilization protocol and your

assertion that private providers depends on backboarding patients as

a revenue source.

More specifically, are you trying to make a point or even a stab in

the dark that private providers are more likely to continue

backboarding patients then are tax funded providers?

Are you saying that the Medical Director's of private services are

not capable or willing to provide a selective spinal immobilization

protocol? Or maybe you have determined that all tax funded services

have a selective spinal immobilization protocol. Without my test

either of those theories, I would bet they are both without validity.

If you are taking that sort of a swipe at various providers, what

information do you hold that would support that sort of a

statement?

My question to you Alfonso, what did you mean by your comment?

bkw

> >

> > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services

in

> Texas

> > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies.

Instead of

> looking

> > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS

> students to the

> > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are

backboards. We

> > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once

in a

> blue

> > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

> >

>

> Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the

private

> providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

>

> Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

[Guest guest]

I have been out of the billing side of EMS for a while, but, I am fairly

sure that you cannot bill for itemized procedures such as immobilization any

longer. There are several professional EMS billing people on the list, maybe

they will educate us on the latest information.

Lee

Re: Duct Tape

Alfonso,

Please connect the dots between Dr. Bledsoe's encouraging services

to adopt a selective spinal immobilization protocol and your

assertion that private providers depends on backboarding patients as

a revenue source.

More specifically, are you trying to make a point or even a stab in

the dark that private providers are more likely to continue

backboarding patients then are tax funded providers?

Are you saying that the Medical Director's of private services are

not capable or willing to provide a selective spinal immobilization

protocol? Or maybe you have determined that all tax funded services

have a selective spinal immobilization protocol. Without my test

either of those theories, I would bet they are both without validity.

If you are taking that sort of a swipe at various providers, what

information do you hold that would support that sort of a

statement?

My question to you Alfonso, what did you mean by your comment?

bkw

> >

> > This whole argument would me more meaningful if all EMS services

in

> Texas

> > used one of the selective spinal immobilization policies.

Instead of

> looking

> > at backboards stacked like cord wood, you will be taking EMS

> students to the

> > ED storage and say, " Look young whippersnapper. These are

backboards. We

> > used to use them more often than oxygen--now they are used once

in a

> blue

> > moon. Get a good look--but don't touch "

> >

>

> Yes, Dr. B, but that makes too much sense. Tell that to the

private

> providers who depend on this service for their cash-flow. :-)

>

> Alfonso R. Ochoa

>