Introduction

[Guest guest]

> of the 12-step program. One therpaist I knew had done years and years

> of 12-step and told me her higher power was blueberry cheesecake, and

> she wasn't joking, but illustrating what got her through it. But I'm

Please accept my comments as humble despite the sarcasm (I'm still in a

major " questioning the 12 steps " phase):

So did she really think that a blueberry cheesecake would " remove all

these defects of character/shortcomings? " Did she have to eat it or

just stare at it?

Oooo, this one gets messy:

Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact

with blueberry cheesecake, praying only for knowledge of blueberry

cheesecake's will for us and the power to carry that out.

Conscious contact with blueberry cheesecake....how do you improve that?

I'm not trying rip on her or you...I am actually still in my 12-step

fellowship, but until somebody really read me the steps with a " silly "

higher power filled in there, I was buying it. They told me it can be

anything, but then they never substituted the proper nouns for

me...it's a little misleading, IMHO. It took " anti- " AA people to help

me see that...

Welcome to the group!

-Cal

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

....I am actually still in my 12-step

fellowship, but until somebody really read me the steps with a "silly"

higher power filled in there, I was buying it. They told me it can be

anything, but then they never substituted the proper nouns for

me...it's a little misleading, IMHO. It took "anti-"AA people to help

me see that...

Yes, it is a total bait and switch. Initially, they tell an agnostic like me I can choose anything for a higher power -- a Styrofoam cup was recommended.

But as one goes further into the program, the "suggestions" take on a mandatory quality -- do them, or it is death, jails or institutions.

So then, one must ask the questions you raise. How does one (humbly) ask

Styrofoam Cup to remove one's character defects? And if I told my shrink I was urgently seeking to know Styrofoam Cup's will for my life, would he not be justified in recommending anti-psychotic meds?

No, the AA expect that eventually you will find a "real" HP, and they have in mind the God of Judeo-Christianity, who forgives sins and removes faults. Not Shiva; not a goddess; and not a non-personal, deistic god.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

....I am actually still in my 12-step

fellowship, but until somebody really read me the steps with a "silly"

higher power filled in there, I was buying it. They told me it can be

anything, but then they never substituted the proper nouns for

me...it's a little misleading, IMHO. It took "anti-"AA people to help

me see that...

Yes, it is a total bait and switch. Initially, they tell an agnostic like me I can choose anything for a higher power -- a Styrofoam cup was recommended.

But as one goes further into the program, the "suggestions" take on a mandatory quality -- do them, or it is death, jails or institutions.

So then, one must ask the questions you raise. How does one (humbly) ask

Styrofoam Cup to remove one's character defects? And if I told my shrink I was urgently seeking to know Styrofoam Cup's will for my life, would he not be justified in recommending anti-psychotic meds?

No, the AA expect that eventually you will find a "real" HP, and they have in mind the God of Judeo-Christianity, who forgives sins and removes faults. Not Shiva; not a goddess; and not a non-personal, deistic god.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

.. I don't really want to re-hash the issue, but there is absolutely nothing Jewish about conceptualizing God as someone/something who "removes faults" or otherwise intervenes in human ethical and behavioral choices. Judaism and Christianity are entirely differing belief systems and can't realistically be lumped together.

Point taken, but I would not at all say Judaism and Xianity are entirely different belief systems. Both draw on the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, and the Ten Commandments and ethical monotheism belief system is common to both.

(Well, ok, the Trinitarian beliefs of orthodox Xianity have compellingly been argued by Jewish critics to constitute polytheism.) Jewish rituals of

sacrificial offerings for sin are the theology underpinning the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, i.e., Jesus Christ, who is supposed to be the Jewish Messiah. Xians believe that Christ expiated sins ostensibly once and for all, and thus no further sacrifices are necessary -- one only need seek forgiveness through the blood of Christ.

The God of the OT punished for sin, and warned of punishment before sending the ten plagues and etc. There is continuity of belief from Judaism to Christianity, even tho the latter religion changed much. But after all, Christianity was originally a Jewish sect comprised of Jews, who regarded themselves as such.

--Mona--

[Guest guest]

Rita,

If this is too personal, I'll understand if you're not comfortable answering:

I know you've stated before that you're Jewish. I am also. Unfortunately,

while in AA, even when I (sort of) believed in it, I couldn't grasp the idea

of God doing all that's stated in the steps; it didn't seem right, or moral

(isn't God supposed to help the truly ill, not the illness-excuse for outside

pity

[Guest guest]

Rita,

If this is too personal, I'll understand if you're not comfortable answering:

I know you've stated before that you're Jewish. I am also. Unfortunately,

while in AA, even when I (sort of) believed in it, I couldn't grasp the idea

of God doing all that's stated in the steps; it didn't seem right, or moral

(isn't God supposed to help the truly ill, not the illness-excuse for outside

pity

[Guest guest]

Sorry, hit " send " too fast again...anyways, I was also Jewish and though I

extensively practice it for a while in my teens, I still had close ties with

the Jewish side of my family and was interested in my ancestors. But I still

identified myself as being Jewish. At a point in AA, I rejected the Judaism

in favor of AA's religion (which I thought was, spirituality,) and used a

devout God; I was surprised that my group-friends were a little annoyed at

this, and time after time you hear in meetings attacks on religious

upbringing. Bill W. also attacks Christianity on a few couts, explicitly, and

wrote in one of his other " spiritual " (not) works something like " the

experience needed for the true alcoholic to undergo a transformation is

beyond what Christianity, Judaism, or any other established religion can

offer. "

I'm glad to be interested in my religion again as a result of leaving. Did

anything like this happen to you? Like I said, I don't mean to be too

personal.

Nick

[Guest guest]

Sorry, hit " send " too fast again...anyways, I was also Jewish and though I

extensively practice it for a while in my teens, I still had close ties with

the Jewish side of my family and was interested in my ancestors. But I still

identified myself as being Jewish. At a point in AA, I rejected the Judaism

in favor of AA's religion (which I thought was, spirituality,) and used a

devout God; I was surprised that my group-friends were a little annoyed at

this, and time after time you hear in meetings attacks on religious

upbringing. Bill W. also attacks Christianity on a few couts, explicitly, and

wrote in one of his other " spiritual " (not) works something like " the

experience needed for the true alcoholic to undergo a transformation is

beyond what Christianity, Judaism, or any other established religion can

offer. "

I'm glad to be interested in my religion again as a result of leaving. Did

anything like this happen to you? Like I said, I don't mean to be too

personal.

Nick

[Guest guest]

>

> No, the AA expect that eventually you will find a " real " HP, and they have in

> mind the God of Judeo-Christianity, who forgives sins and removes faults. Not

> Shiva; not a goddess; and not a non-personal, deistic god.

>

--------------

I liked your post, Mona, and agree about the " bait-and-switch " deceit of

encouraging a " starter god " HP that is expected to evolve into a " mature "

concept of God as understood him. (I think even used that exact

phrase -- " a more mature concept of God " -- in his insipid book " 12 Steps and 12

Traditions " , when suggesting that the AA group itself can be the starter god for

newcomers.)

However, your use of the hyphenated construct " Judeo-Christianity " is

inappropriate. I don't really want to re-hash the issue, but there is

absolutely nothing Jewish about conceptualizing God as someone/something who

" removes faults " or otherwise intervenes in human ethical and behavioral

choices. Judaism and Christianity are entirely differing belief systems and

can't realistically be lumped together.

I'm not certain what " deism " means, but possibly that may describe some of

Jewish ideology? Could you (or others who know about this) explain the term? I

think I read somewhere that Jefferson was a " deist. "

~Rita

[Guest guest]

>

> No, the AA expect that eventually you will find a " real " HP, and they have in

> mind the God of Judeo-Christianity, who forgives sins and removes faults. Not

> Shiva; not a goddess; and not a non-personal, deistic god.

>

--------------

I liked your post, Mona, and agree about the " bait-and-switch " deceit of

encouraging a " starter god " HP that is expected to evolve into a " mature "

concept of God as understood him. (I think even used that exact

phrase -- " a more mature concept of God " -- in his insipid book " 12 Steps and 12

Traditions " , when suggesting that the AA group itself can be the starter god for

newcomers.)

However, your use of the hyphenated construct " Judeo-Christianity " is

inappropriate. I don't really want to re-hash the issue, but there is

absolutely nothing Jewish about conceptualizing God as someone/something who

" removes faults " or otherwise intervenes in human ethical and behavioral

choices. Judaism and Christianity are entirely differing belief systems and

can't realistically be lumped together.

I'm not certain what " deism " means, but possibly that may describe some of

Jewish ideology? Could you (or others who know about this) explain the term? I

think I read somewhere that Jefferson was a " deist. "

~Rita

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I was lucky enough to get into an excellent treatment

> center (Donwood Institute, Toronto), where all different kinds of

> approaches to recovery are offered, including 12-step " affiliation "

> for those who choose it.

This approach sounds truly novel, though why this should be the case

is beyond my understanding.

My TX experience was an intensive indoctrination into the 12-step

system. I can look it up sometime, but some of the research shows

that people do better when they have some choices about the type of

recovery they want to do. We sure didn't. Anyone who didn't believe

they were powerless was severely used in the " group therapy. "

<snip>

>

> By the end of my program I was doing well, but felt quite " addicted

> to therapy " , such that I sought all manner of groups to associate

> with in order to keep it up.

Seen " Fight Club? " This reminded me of the beginning of it.

Thus I do have a couple of years

> experience with NA, CA and AA here in Toronto. At first, I found the

> 12-step groups energizing, and I happily climbed into that big old

> lifeboat, as I now think of it. But over time, I simply never felt

> any positive or progressive vibe there. No empowerment, no raising

of

> self-esteem, no bloody way out!

Hey, , you came to the right place!

See you,

>

> " Everything can be taken from a man but the last of the human

> freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of

> circumstances, to choose one's own way. " - Viktor l

Woah, this fit right in with what Ken was saying about state mandated

therapy.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I was lucky enough to get into an excellent treatment

> center (Donwood Institute, Toronto), where all different kinds of

> approaches to recovery are offered, including 12-step " affiliation "

> for those who choose it.

This approach sounds truly novel, though why this should be the case

is beyond my understanding.

My TX experience was an intensive indoctrination into the 12-step

system. I can look it up sometime, but some of the research shows

that people do better when they have some choices about the type of

recovery they want to do. We sure didn't. Anyone who didn't believe

they were powerless was severely used in the " group therapy. "

<snip>

>

> By the end of my program I was doing well, but felt quite " addicted

> to therapy " , such that I sought all manner of groups to associate

> with in order to keep it up.

Seen " Fight Club? " This reminded me of the beginning of it.

Thus I do have a couple of years

> experience with NA, CA and AA here in Toronto. At first, I found the

> 12-step groups energizing, and I happily climbed into that big old

> lifeboat, as I now think of it. But over time, I simply never felt

> any positive or progressive vibe there. No empowerment, no raising

of

> self-esteem, no bloody way out!

Hey, , you came to the right place!

See you,

>

> " Everything can be taken from a man but the last of the human

> freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of

> circumstances, to choose one's own way. " - Viktor l

Woah, this fit right in with what Ken was saying about state mandated

therapy.

[Guest guest]

Hi Rita, Had my dictionary close by:

Webster -

deism -belief in the existence of a god on purely rational grounds without

reliance on revelation or authority, esp., the 17th-18th century doctrine

that god created the world and its natural laws, but takes no further part in

its functioning.

Mark

[Guest guest]

I had the right half of my thyroid removed for what was described as " pre

cancerous condition " . The scar was small and made into one of the natural

neck folds so it was barely visible even at its worse.

My main problem was the temporary damage to my vocal chords. It took over

a year before I could raise my voice. As a teacher that was a huge problem

and required the co-operation of my adolescent students who could have made

my life a living hell had they chosen to do so.

I also could not sing for years. Most people that I know consider that to

have been the main positive outcome of the operation.

Elka (in Canada)

At 02:55 AM 1/21/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi everyone.

>

>I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another board

>that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad that

>I was told about this place.

>

>This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had a

>FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

>determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

>suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

>shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

>removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

>whether or not it is cancerous.

>

>I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery ever,

>so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a scar

>on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention any

>of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

>I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I can

>expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

>routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

>Thanks so much-

>Jen

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had the right half of my thyroid removed for what was described as " pre

cancerous condition " . The scar was small and made into one of the natural

neck folds so it was barely visible even at its worse.

My main problem was the temporary damage to my vocal chords. It took over

a year before I could raise my voice. As a teacher that was a huge problem

and required the co-operation of my adolescent students who could have made

my life a living hell had they chosen to do so.

I also could not sing for years. Most people that I know consider that to

have been the main positive outcome of the operation.

Elka (in Canada)

At 02:55 AM 1/21/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi everyone.

>

>I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another board

>that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad that

>I was told about this place.

>

>This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had a

>FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

>determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

>suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

>shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

>removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

>whether or not it is cancerous.

>

>I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery ever,

>so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a scar

>on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention any

>of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

>I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I can

>expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

>routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

>Thanks so much-

>Jen

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I had the right half of my thyroid removed for what was described as " pre

cancerous condition " . The scar was small and made into one of the natural

neck folds so it was barely visible even at its worse.

My main problem was the temporary damage to my vocal chords. It took over

a year before I could raise my voice. As a teacher that was a huge problem

and required the co-operation of my adolescent students who could have made

my life a living hell had they chosen to do so.

I also could not sing for years. Most people that I know consider that to

have been the main positive outcome of the operation.

Elka (in Canada)

At 02:55 AM 1/21/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Hi everyone.

>

>I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another board

>that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad that

>I was told about this place.

>

>This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had a

>FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

>determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

>suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

>shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

>removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

>whether or not it is cancerous.

>

>I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery ever,

>so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a scar

>on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention any

>of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

>I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I can

>expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

>routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

>Thanks so much-

>Jen

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

HI ,

My name is Joanne and this is my first time on this site. It has

been 2 years since my surgery. I had a total thyroidectomy and left

neck disection. Unfortunately I had cancer. The good news is the

surgeon got all of it. I had to have radiation about three months

after to get rid of any remaining thyroid tissue and two years later

I am still cancer free. The most complications I have encountered

was having all of my parathyroid glands damaged in the surgery and

that means I have to be on calcium amd rocatrol medications as well

as the thyroid pill the rest of my life. So make sure you tell your

surgeon to try desperately to leave them in tact.

After your surgery your neck will obviously be swollen and difficult

to move but that will go away in a few weeks. I have a scar that is

straight across my neck and scoops up the left side. It was red for

awhile but now looks like a typical age line on a neck except for

the side. But I wear my hair up, down now. What matters to me is

I am here and alive and able to enjoy my son, husband and family,

frinds. I was only 33 when this happened and my son was just 4 days

old when the suspecions started and he was 7 weeks when I was told I

had cancer. All I could think of was I would not be around for him

but my prognosis is good and I enjoy every minute doing the important

things in life. I wish you all of the luck in the world and I hope

your surgery goes well on Thursday. I know it is scarey , it was my

first surgery as well but you won't know a thing. I have a God

daughter who had to have her thyroid removed because she was very

hyperthyroid and she had a very quick recovery time. I was in the

hospital for two weeks because I was extremely imbalanced with my

calcium levels whereas my neighbour and God daughter were out in a

couple of days. My next door neighbour also had thyroid cancer and

both she and I are still having challenging days but for you it may

be a quick recovery like my god daughter. Every case is different.

Amoung the three of us I can help share a variety of things and

hopefully answer some of your questions. There are many " what ifs "

right now for you so just think positive. I will say a prayer for you

and I hope to hear from you and how you are doing.

Thinking of you,

Joanne

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another

board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad

that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had

a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery

ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a

scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention

any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I

can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

[Guest guest]

HI ,

My name is Joanne and this is my first time on this site. It has

been 2 years since my surgery. I had a total thyroidectomy and left

neck disection. Unfortunately I had cancer. The good news is the

surgeon got all of it. I had to have radiation about three months

after to get rid of any remaining thyroid tissue and two years later

I am still cancer free. The most complications I have encountered

was having all of my parathyroid glands damaged in the surgery and

that means I have to be on calcium amd rocatrol medications as well

as the thyroid pill the rest of my life. So make sure you tell your

surgeon to try desperately to leave them in tact.

After your surgery your neck will obviously be swollen and difficult

to move but that will go away in a few weeks. I have a scar that is

straight across my neck and scoops up the left side. It was red for

awhile but now looks like a typical age line on a neck except for

the side. But I wear my hair up, down now. What matters to me is

I am here and alive and able to enjoy my son, husband and family,

frinds. I was only 33 when this happened and my son was just 4 days

old when the suspecions started and he was 7 weeks when I was told I

had cancer. All I could think of was I would not be around for him

but my prognosis is good and I enjoy every minute doing the important

things in life. I wish you all of the luck in the world and I hope

your surgery goes well on Thursday. I know it is scarey , it was my

first surgery as well but you won't know a thing. I have a God

daughter who had to have her thyroid removed because she was very

hyperthyroid and she had a very quick recovery time. I was in the

hospital for two weeks because I was extremely imbalanced with my

calcium levels whereas my neighbour and God daughter were out in a

couple of days. My next door neighbour also had thyroid cancer and

both she and I are still having challenging days but for you it may

be a quick recovery like my god daughter. Every case is different.

Amoung the three of us I can help share a variety of things and

hopefully answer some of your questions. There are many " what ifs "

right now for you so just think positive. I will say a prayer for you

and I hope to hear from you and how you are doing.

Thinking of you,

Joanne

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another

board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad

that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had

a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery

ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a

scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention

any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I

can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

[Guest guest]

HI ,

My name is Joanne and this is my first time on this site. It has

been 2 years since my surgery. I had a total thyroidectomy and left

neck disection. Unfortunately I had cancer. The good news is the

surgeon got all of it. I had to have radiation about three months

after to get rid of any remaining thyroid tissue and two years later

I am still cancer free. The most complications I have encountered

was having all of my parathyroid glands damaged in the surgery and

that means I have to be on calcium amd rocatrol medications as well

as the thyroid pill the rest of my life. So make sure you tell your

surgeon to try desperately to leave them in tact.

After your surgery your neck will obviously be swollen and difficult

to move but that will go away in a few weeks. I have a scar that is

straight across my neck and scoops up the left side. It was red for

awhile but now looks like a typical age line on a neck except for

the side. But I wear my hair up, down now. What matters to me is

I am here and alive and able to enjoy my son, husband and family,

frinds. I was only 33 when this happened and my son was just 4 days

old when the suspecions started and he was 7 weeks when I was told I

had cancer. All I could think of was I would not be around for him

but my prognosis is good and I enjoy every minute doing the important

things in life. I wish you all of the luck in the world and I hope

your surgery goes well on Thursday. I know it is scarey , it was my

first surgery as well but you won't know a thing. I have a God

daughter who had to have her thyroid removed because she was very

hyperthyroid and she had a very quick recovery time. I was in the

hospital for two weeks because I was extremely imbalanced with my

calcium levels whereas my neighbour and God daughter were out in a

couple of days. My next door neighbour also had thyroid cancer and

both she and I are still having challenging days but for you it may

be a quick recovery like my god daughter. Every case is different.

Amoung the three of us I can help share a variety of things and

hopefully answer some of your questions. There are many " what ifs "

right now for you so just think positive. I will say a prayer for you

and I hope to hear from you and how you are doing.

Thinking of you,

Joanne

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another

board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad

that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had

a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery

ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a

scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention

any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I

can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

[Guest guest]

Hi ;

welcome to the group no one wants to join... Your surgery should be

very manageable.. I've learned not to say " piece of cake " because it

isn't a piece of cake for everyone, but for most of us it is. You'll

be out of commission for about a week - i had precautions to not

drive or lift heavy things for a week, but 3 days after surgery i was

back to walking a mile or so, and while i couldn't actually garden, i

could actively manage the process. Then most likely , if it is

thyroid cancer, you'll have a slowing down period of about 6 weeks

while you without thyroid hormone in anticipation of a scan and

perhaps radioactive iodine (RAI) treatment to ablate any remaining

thyroid tissue.. but lets cross that bridge post surgery.

Right now your mission should be to be in a good frame of mind for

Thursday's surgery.. see if you can line up some help for when you

get home, you'll be tired from the surgery and might like some help

preparing meals. I reccommend a dog bone or similar rolled pillow

for under your neck, i found it to be very helpful in getting

comfortable and being convinced my head wouldn't fall off. They do a

lot of manipulation to get that thyroid out a small incision and to

check out lymph nodes and such so don't be surprised if your neck and

shoulder muscles are a bit stiff and sore.

The wound heals up pretty quick, i was okayed to shower 2 days after

surgery.. it was sore and stiff but not wicked painful (and the good

thing about the winter is that you won't have to be so quick to have

to worry about sunscreen on the scar - unless you live somewhere that

isn't the frozen north)

Good Luck, ask lots of questions, and we'll be thinking of you

Thursday

barb

TT 8/99 RAI 4/00 Clean Scans 12/00 5/02

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another

board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad

that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had

a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery

ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a

scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention

any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I

can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

[Guest guest]

Hi ;

welcome to the group no one wants to join... Your surgery should be

very manageable.. I've learned not to say " piece of cake " because it

isn't a piece of cake for everyone, but for most of us it is. You'll

be out of commission for about a week - i had precautions to not

drive or lift heavy things for a week, but 3 days after surgery i was

back to walking a mile or so, and while i couldn't actually garden, i

could actively manage the process. Then most likely , if it is

thyroid cancer, you'll have a slowing down period of about 6 weeks

while you without thyroid hormone in anticipation of a scan and

perhaps radioactive iodine (RAI) treatment to ablate any remaining

thyroid tissue.. but lets cross that bridge post surgery.

Right now your mission should be to be in a good frame of mind for

Thursday's surgery.. see if you can line up some help for when you

get home, you'll be tired from the surgery and might like some help

preparing meals. I reccommend a dog bone or similar rolled pillow

for under your neck, i found it to be very helpful in getting

comfortable and being convinced my head wouldn't fall off. They do a

lot of manipulation to get that thyroid out a small incision and to

check out lymph nodes and such so don't be surprised if your neck and

shoulder muscles are a bit stiff and sore.

The wound heals up pretty quick, i was okayed to shower 2 days after

surgery.. it was sore and stiff but not wicked painful (and the good

thing about the winter is that you won't have to be so quick to have

to worry about sunscreen on the scar - unless you live somewhere that

isn't the frozen north)

Good Luck, ask lots of questions, and we'll be thinking of you

Thursday

barb

TT 8/99 RAI 4/00 Clean Scans 12/00 5/02

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another

board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad

that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had

a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery

ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a

scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention

any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I

can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

[Guest guest]

Hi ;

welcome to the group no one wants to join... Your surgery should be

very manageable.. I've learned not to say " piece of cake " because it

isn't a piece of cake for everyone, but for most of us it is. You'll

be out of commission for about a week - i had precautions to not

drive or lift heavy things for a week, but 3 days after surgery i was

back to walking a mile or so, and while i couldn't actually garden, i

could actively manage the process. Then most likely , if it is

thyroid cancer, you'll have a slowing down period of about 6 weeks

while you without thyroid hormone in anticipation of a scan and

perhaps radioactive iodine (RAI) treatment to ablate any remaining

thyroid tissue.. but lets cross that bridge post surgery.

Right now your mission should be to be in a good frame of mind for

Thursday's surgery.. see if you can line up some help for when you

get home, you'll be tired from the surgery and might like some help

preparing meals. I reccommend a dog bone or similar rolled pillow

for under your neck, i found it to be very helpful in getting

comfortable and being convinced my head wouldn't fall off. They do a

lot of manipulation to get that thyroid out a small incision and to

check out lymph nodes and such so don't be surprised if your neck and

shoulder muscles are a bit stiff and sore.

The wound heals up pretty quick, i was okayed to shower 2 days after

surgery.. it was sore and stiff but not wicked painful (and the good

thing about the winter is that you won't have to be so quick to have

to worry about sunscreen on the scar - unless you live somewhere that

isn't the frozen north)

Good Luck, ask lots of questions, and we'll be thinking of you

Thursday

barb

TT 8/99 RAI 4/00 Clean Scans 12/00 5/02

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another

board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad

that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had

a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery

ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a

scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention

any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I

can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

[Guest guest]

Welcome, There are far more seasoned members of the ThyCa

community that I'm sure will respond to your letter, but I thought I'd offer

my own $.02 as well.

The surgery itself shouldn't be too bad. The incision should only be about 4

or 5 inches at the base of your neck, and once it heals up there are many

things you can put on it to help make it disappear and thin down, like

Vitamin E, or a cream called Mederma (which has helped me, but not everyone

who has tried it). The pain from the surgery is relatively minimal. The

worst parts of recovery for me were a) when I came out of surgery, they'd

had a tube down my throat, and my throat was REALLY sore... I was eating a

lot of ice chips, and this was a lot better by the second day. And I

think most everyone will agree that your neck feels weird after surgery...

you'll probably he holding your head a bit differently than normal, and the

muscles in the back of your head are going to *ache*! I recommend a heating

pad, or one of those microwavable heat packs to help with that.

After the surgery, I allowed myself two weeks to really heal up. I wasn't in

bed feeling miserable for all this time, in fact I was pretty functional,

but I wouldn't drive for two weeks... I was too afraid to turn my head, I

thought for sure I'd open the incision. I would *suggest* (and this is just

me) that you allow yourself a couple days from the hospital before you start

doing too much, and at least a week before you drive. This is your choice,

though... just make sure you're comfortable with turning your head enough to

be able to back up, merge, etc. safely.

As far as time for the incision to heal... it really wasn't bad at all for

me, though I'm not sure if everyone else was the same. They only had

stitches in for the first 24 hours, after that it was just taped together. I

was able to shower right any time I wanted afterwards (thank goodness!). I

believe the tape came off after a week... and after about two weeks, it was

healed up well.

Has the doctor talked to you about having radioactive iodine therapy? That

is the first step after surgery. It requires going " hypo " (letting the

thyroid hormone in your body run down, and having your TSH readings in your

blood go really high) and following a special diet for a few weeks. After

your TSH is at an appropriate level (usually over 30), you take some

radioactive iodine (it was two decent sized pills for me). Depending on your

doctor, they may give you a small dose first and then do a body scan to

determine how much of a big dose you need, or they might give you a big dose

right off for your first time. The dose size depends on how much the cancer

has spread around your thyroid and surrounding lymph nodes.

After the radioactive iodine (RAI), you'll need to be isolated for a few

days either in the hospital or in your home, as the radiation from your body

could harm the healthy thyroid of another person. About a week or so after

the big dose, you'll have a WBS (whole body scan) which will tell them where

the iodine went in your body. They will be able to determine if anything has

spread anywhere else in your body, and they'll be able to tell what kind of

job they did getting all of your thyroid out.

After RAI is all over, your doctor will get you started in a thyroid hormone

which will bring your TSH down to a " wow, I feel human again! " kind of level

Although being hypo might not even bother you at all... it varies with

everyone!

I hope this helps

Age 21

Lump found 10/01

FNA 2/15/02 dx Pap Car

TT 3/18/02 2cm tumor, 5 lymph nodes infected

RAI 6/6/02 150 mci

Currently on .2 of Levoxyl

Introduction

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome, There are far more seasoned members of the ThyCa

community that I'm sure will respond to your letter, but I thought I'd offer

my own $.02 as well.

The surgery itself shouldn't be too bad. The incision should only be about 4

or 5 inches at the base of your neck, and once it heals up there are many

things you can put on it to help make it disappear and thin down, like

Vitamin E, or a cream called Mederma (which has helped me, but not everyone

who has tried it). The pain from the surgery is relatively minimal. The

worst parts of recovery for me were a) when I came out of surgery, they'd

had a tube down my throat, and my throat was REALLY sore... I was eating a

lot of ice chips, and this was a lot better by the second day. And I

think most everyone will agree that your neck feels weird after surgery...

you'll probably he holding your head a bit differently than normal, and the

muscles in the back of your head are going to *ache*! I recommend a heating

pad, or one of those microwavable heat packs to help with that.

After the surgery, I allowed myself two weeks to really heal up. I wasn't in

bed feeling miserable for all this time, in fact I was pretty functional,

but I wouldn't drive for two weeks... I was too afraid to turn my head, I

thought for sure I'd open the incision. I would *suggest* (and this is just

me) that you allow yourself a couple days from the hospital before you start

doing too much, and at least a week before you drive. This is your choice,

though... just make sure you're comfortable with turning your head enough to

be able to back up, merge, etc. safely.

As far as time for the incision to heal... it really wasn't bad at all for

me, though I'm not sure if everyone else was the same. They only had

stitches in for the first 24 hours, after that it was just taped together. I

was able to shower right any time I wanted afterwards (thank goodness!). I

believe the tape came off after a week... and after about two weeks, it was

healed up well.

Has the doctor talked to you about having radioactive iodine therapy? That

is the first step after surgery. It requires going " hypo " (letting the

thyroid hormone in your body run down, and having your TSH readings in your

blood go really high) and following a special diet for a few weeks. After

your TSH is at an appropriate level (usually over 30), you take some

radioactive iodine (it was two decent sized pills for me). Depending on your

doctor, they may give you a small dose first and then do a body scan to

determine how much of a big dose you need, or they might give you a big dose

right off for your first time. The dose size depends on how much the cancer

has spread around your thyroid and surrounding lymph nodes.

After the radioactive iodine (RAI), you'll need to be isolated for a few

days either in the hospital or in your home, as the radiation from your body

could harm the healthy thyroid of another person. About a week or so after

the big dose, you'll have a WBS (whole body scan) which will tell them where

the iodine went in your body. They will be able to determine if anything has

spread anywhere else in your body, and they'll be able to tell what kind of

job they did getting all of your thyroid out.

After RAI is all over, your doctor will get you started in a thyroid hormone

which will bring your TSH down to a " wow, I feel human again! " kind of level

Although being hypo might not even bother you at all... it varies with

everyone!

I hope this helps

Age 21

Lump found 10/01

FNA 2/15/02 dx Pap Car

TT 3/18/02 2cm tumor, 5 lymph nodes infected

RAI 6/6/02 150 mci

Currently on .2 of Levoxyl

Introduction

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Welcome, There are far more seasoned members of the ThyCa

community that I'm sure will respond to your letter, but I thought I'd offer

my own $.02 as well.

The surgery itself shouldn't be too bad. The incision should only be about 4

or 5 inches at the base of your neck, and once it heals up there are many

things you can put on it to help make it disappear and thin down, like

Vitamin E, or a cream called Mederma (which has helped me, but not everyone

who has tried it). The pain from the surgery is relatively minimal. The

worst parts of recovery for me were a) when I came out of surgery, they'd

had a tube down my throat, and my throat was REALLY sore... I was eating a

lot of ice chips, and this was a lot better by the second day. And I

think most everyone will agree that your neck feels weird after surgery...

you'll probably he holding your head a bit differently than normal, and the

muscles in the back of your head are going to *ache*! I recommend a heating

pad, or one of those microwavable heat packs to help with that.

After the surgery, I allowed myself two weeks to really heal up. I wasn't in

bed feeling miserable for all this time, in fact I was pretty functional,

but I wouldn't drive for two weeks... I was too afraid to turn my head, I

thought for sure I'd open the incision. I would *suggest* (and this is just

me) that you allow yourself a couple days from the hospital before you start

doing too much, and at least a week before you drive. This is your choice,

though... just make sure you're comfortable with turning your head enough to

be able to back up, merge, etc. safely.

As far as time for the incision to heal... it really wasn't bad at all for

me, though I'm not sure if everyone else was the same. They only had

stitches in for the first 24 hours, after that it was just taped together. I

was able to shower right any time I wanted afterwards (thank goodness!). I

believe the tape came off after a week... and after about two weeks, it was

healed up well.

Has the doctor talked to you about having radioactive iodine therapy? That

is the first step after surgery. It requires going " hypo " (letting the

thyroid hormone in your body run down, and having your TSH readings in your

blood go really high) and following a special diet for a few weeks. After

your TSH is at an appropriate level (usually over 30), you take some

radioactive iodine (it was two decent sized pills for me). Depending on your

doctor, they may give you a small dose first and then do a body scan to

determine how much of a big dose you need, or they might give you a big dose

right off for your first time. The dose size depends on how much the cancer

has spread around your thyroid and surrounding lymph nodes.

After the radioactive iodine (RAI), you'll need to be isolated for a few

days either in the hospital or in your home, as the radiation from your body

could harm the healthy thyroid of another person. About a week or so after

the big dose, you'll have a WBS (whole body scan) which will tell them where

the iodine went in your body. They will be able to determine if anything has

spread anywhere else in your body, and they'll be able to tell what kind of

job they did getting all of your thyroid out.

After RAI is all over, your doctor will get you started in a thyroid hormone

which will bring your TSH down to a " wow, I feel human again! " kind of level

Although being hypo might not even bother you at all... it varies with

everyone!

I hope this helps

Age 21

Lump found 10/01

FNA 2/15/02 dx Pap Car

TT 3/18/02 2cm tumor, 5 lymph nodes infected

RAI 6/6/02 150 mci

Currently on .2 of Levoxyl

Introduction

> Hi everyone.

>

> I was informed of this group from someone who posts on another board

> that I post on. After reading some of the past posts, I am glad that

> I was told about this place.

>

> This Thursday I will be having surgery to remove my thyroid. I had a

> FNB done a few days before Xmas and the results were not able to

> determine whether or not it was cancerous, only that it was

> suspicious. My right thyroid is extremely enlarged, but tests have

> shown that my thyroid is normal. The doctor has recommended the

> removal of my whole thyroid. From there they will test to see

> whether or not it is cancerous.

>

> I will be in the hospital overnight. This is my first surgery ever,

> so I am very nervous. I am only 27, so the thought of having a scar

> on my neck is a frightening thought at the moment, not to mention any

> of the other complications I have been warned about.

>

> I would appreciate any words of wisdom I can receive about what I can

> expect after my surgery. When can I return back to my normal

> routine, how long it takes for the wound area to heal, etc.

>

> Thanks so much-

> Jen

>

>

>

>

>