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Sorry to disagree - the scars cancer survivors have are caused by

surgeons, scalpels, operations, treatments, medicine, science. I would

never be so ungrateful to my oncologist team as to deny them credit for

the scars that will hopefully save my life.

After all, if god had the power to save us from cancer he would not put us there in the first place.

At least I know for a fact that if my oncologist team could spare me

from cancer altogether, they would, and right from the beginning.

I would not be very grateful to anyone (be it god or an oncologist

team) that would put me through cancer just to teach me a lesson and

then play hero saving me.

Iza in land

Today I received this in my email. Thought it to beautiful not to

pass along.

Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy

decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house.

In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back door,

leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went.

He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the

middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

His father working in the yard saw the two as they got closer and

closer together. In utter fear, he ran toward the water, yelling to

his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy

became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father. It was too

late. Just as he reached his father, the alligator reached him.

From the dock, the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as

the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war

between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father,

but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened

to drive by, heard his screams, raced from his truck, took aim and

shot the alligator. Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the

hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred

by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his arms, were deep

scratches where his father's fingernails dug into his flesh in his

effort to hang on to the son he loved. The newspaper reporter who

interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him his

scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious pride,

he said to the reporter, " But look at my arms. I have great scars

on my arms, too. I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go. " You

and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars,

too. No, not from an alligator, but the scars of a painful past.

Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep regret.

But, some wounds, my friend, are because God has refused to let go.

In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to you.

The Scripture teaches that God loves you. You are a child of God. He

wants to protect you and provide for you in every way But sometimes

we foolishly wade into dangerous situations, not knowing what lies

ahead. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we

forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-of-

war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your arms, be

very, very grateful. He did not and will not ever let you go.

Please pass this on to those you love. God has blessed you, so that

you can be a blessing to others. You just never know where a person

is in his/her life and what they are going through.

Never judge another persons scars, because you don't know how they

got them. Also, it is soooo important that we are not selfish, to

receive the blessings of these messages, without forwarding them to

someone else. Right now, someone needs to know that God loves them,

and you love them, too- enough to not let them go.

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--God gave the surgeons the knowledge a skill to perform marvelous

things. It's not God that gave us the cancer. I believe that my

affliction has made my relationship stronger.

- In breastcancer2 , Izaskun Fuentes Milani

wrote:

>

> Sorry to disagree - the scars cancer survivors have are caused by

surgeons,

> scalpels, operations, treatments, medicine, science. I would never

be so

> ungrateful to my oncologist team as to deny them credit for the

scars that

> will hopefully save my life.

>

> After all, if god had the power to save us from cancer he would

not put us

> there in the first place.

>

> At least I know for a fact that if my oncologist team could spare

me from

> cancer altogether, they would, and right from the beginning.

>

> I would not be very grateful to anyone (be it god or an oncologist

team)

> that would put me through cancer just to teach me a lesson and

then play

> hero saving me.

>

> Iza in land

>

>

> >

> > Today I received this in my email. Thought it to beautiful not

to

> > pass along.

> >

> >

> > Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little

boy

> > decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his

house.

> > In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back

door,

> > leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went.

> > He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the

> > middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

> > His father working in the yard saw the two as they got closer and

> > closer together. In utter fear, he ran toward the water, yelling

to

> > his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy

> > became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father. It was

too

> > late. Just as he reached his father, the alligator reached him.

> > From the dock, the father grabbed his little boy by the arms

just as

> > the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-

war

> > between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father,

> > but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer

happened

> > to drive by, heard his screams, raced from his truck, took aim

and

> > shot the alligator. Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the

> > hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely

scarred

> > by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his arms, were deep

> > scratches where his father's fingernails dug into his flesh in

his

> > effort to hang on to the son he loved. The newspaper reporter who

> > interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him

his

> > scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious

pride,

> > he said to the reporter, " But look at my arms. I have great

scars

> > on my arms, too. I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go. " You

> > and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars,

> > too. No, not from an alligator, but the scars of a painful past.

> > Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep

regret.

> > But, some wounds, my friend, are because God has refused to let

go.

> > In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to

you.

> > The Scripture teaches that God loves you. You are a child of

God. He

> > wants to protect you and provide for you in every way But

sometimes

> > we foolishly wade into dangerous situations, not knowing what

lies

> > ahead. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we

> > forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-

of-

> > war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your

arms, be

> > very, very grateful. He did not and will not ever let you go.

> > Please pass this on to those you love. God has blessed you, so

that

> > you can be a blessing to others. You just never know where a

person

> > is in his/her life and what they are going through.

> > Never judge another persons scars, because you don't know how

they

> > got them. Also, it is soooo important that we are not selfish, to

> > receive the blessings of these messages, without forwarding them

to

> > someone else. Right now, someone needs to know that God loves

them,

> > and you love them, too- enough to not let them go.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Excuse me, I really do not mean to get into a meaningless controversy.

This is an honest question: You say you believe in god and you believe

that god gave the surgeons the knowledge and skills necessary to treat

us, then you say that god did not give us the cancer. This does not

make sense to me. Either god is responsible for everything, or for

nothing. It does not make sense to think that god is responsible for

the good things but not for the bad stuff. Either, or...???

Iza in land

--God gave the surgeons the knowledge a skill to perform marvelous

things. It's not God that gave us the cancer. I believe that my

affliction has made my relationship stronger.

- In breastcancer2 , Izaskun Fuentes Milani

wrote:

>

> Sorry to disagree - the scars cancer survivors have are caused by

surgeons,

> scalpels, operations, treatments, medicine, science. I would never

be so

> ungrateful to my oncologist team as to deny them credit for the

scars that

> will hopefully save my life.

>

> After all, if god had the power to save us from cancer he would

not put us

> there in the first place.

>

> At least I know for a fact that if my oncologist team could spare

me from

> cancer altogether, they would, and right from the beginning.

>

> I would not be very grateful to anyone (be it god or an oncologist

team)

> that would put me through cancer just to teach me a lesson and

then play

> hero saving me.

>

> Iza in land

>

>

> >

> > Today I received this in my email. Thought it to beautiful not

to

> > pass along.

> >

> >

> > Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little

boy

> > decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his

house.

> > In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back

door,

> > leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went.

> > He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the

> > middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.

> > His father working in the yard saw the two as they got closer and

> > closer together. In utter fear, he ran toward the water, yelling

to

> > his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy

> > became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father. It was

too

> > late. Just as he reached his father, the alligator reached him.

> > From the dock, the father grabbed his little boy by the arms

just as

> > the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-

war

> > between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father,

> > but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer

happened

> > to drive by, heard his screams, raced from his truck, took aim

and

> > shot the alligator. Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the

> > hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely

scarred

> > by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his arms, were deep

> > scratches where his father's fingernails dug into his flesh in

his

> > effort to hang on to the son he loved. The newspaper reporter who

> > interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him

his

> > scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious

pride,

> > he said to the reporter, " But look at my arms. I have great

scars

> > on my arms, too. I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go. " You

> > and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars,

> > too. No, not from an alligator, but the scars of a painful past.

> > Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep

regret.

> > But, some wounds, my friend, are because God has refused to let

go.

> > In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to

you.

> > The Scripture teaches that God loves you. You are a child of

God. He

> > wants to protect you and provide for you in every way But

sometimes

> > we foolishly wade into dangerous situations, not knowing what

lies

> > ahead. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we

> > forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-

of-

> > war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your

arms, be

> > very, very grateful. He did not and will not ever let you go.

> > Please pass this on to those you love. God has blessed you, so

that

> > you can be a blessing to others. You just never know where a

person

> > is in his/her life and what they are going through.

> > Never judge another persons scars, because you don't know how

they

> > got them. Also, it is soooo important that we are not selfish, to

> > receive the blessings of these messages, without forwarding them

to

> > someone else. Right now, someone needs to know that God loves

them,

> > and you love them, too- enough to not let them go.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Could we please stop this constant banter back and forth about who believes in God & who doesn't. Everyone has the RIGHT to believe whatever they choose & should not have to worry about being drilled & explaining why they believe what they do everytime we turn around. Accept the fact we are ALL different with different beliefs and move on please. The subject line was very specific on the content just delete for goodness sake and leave it alone already or if you just can't help yourself respond privately to that person.

Hugs,

Jackie LaVoy

My Quiet Hero

www.myquiethero.com

The Order Of The Silver Rose

Ohio Director

www.silverrose.org

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the nightto visit violence on those who would do us harm.

~Orwell~

-- Re: Scars of Love- Religious content-Do not open if it will offend

Excuse me, I really do not mean to get into a meaningless controversy. This is an honest question: You say you believe in god and you believe that god gave the surgeons the knowledge and skills necessary to treat us, then you say that god did not give us the cancer. This does not make sense to me. Either god is responsible for everything, or for nothing. It does not make sense to think that god is responsible for the good things but not for the bad stuff. Either, or...???Iza in land

--God gave the surgeons the knowledge a skill to perform marvelous things. It's not God that gave us the cancer. I believe that my affliction has made my relationship stronger. - In breastcancer2 , Izaskun Fuentes Milani wrote:>> Sorry to disagree - the scars cancer survivors have are caused by surgeons,> scalpels, operations, treatments, medicine, science. I would never be so> ungrateful to my oncologist team as to deny them credit for the scars that> will hopefully save my life.> > After all, if god had the power to save us from cancer he would not put us> there in the first place.> > At least I know for a fact that if my oncologist team could spare me from> cancer altogether, they would, and right from the beginning.> > I would not be very grateful to anyone (be it god or an oncologist team)> that would put me through cancer just to teach me a lesson and then play> hero saving me.> > Iza in land>

> > >> > Today I received this in my email. Thought it to beautiful not to> > pass along.> >> >> > Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy> > decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house.> > In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back door,> > leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went.> > He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the> > middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.> > His father working in the yard saw the two as they got closer and> > closer together. In utter fear, he ran toward the water, yelling to> > his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy> > became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father. It was too> > late. Just as he reached his father, the alligator reached him.> > From the dock, the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as> > the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war> > between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father,> > but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened> > to drive by, heard his screams, raced from his truck, took aim and> > shot the alligator. Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the> > hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred> > by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his arms, were deep> > scratches where his father's fingernails dug into his flesh in his> > effort to hang on to the son he loved. The newspaper reporter who> > interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him his> > scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious pride,> > he said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have great scars> > on my arms, too. I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go." You> > and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars,> > too. No, not from an alligator, but the scars of a painful past.> > Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep regret.> > But, some wounds, my friend, are because God has refused to let go.> > In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to you.> > The Scripture teaches that God loves you. You are a child of God. He> > wants to protect you and provide for you in every way But sometimes> > we foolishly wade into dangerous situations, not knowing what lies> > ahead. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we> > forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-of-> > war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your arms, be> > very, very grateful. He did not and will not ever let you go.> > Please pass this on to those you love. God has blessed you, so that> > you can be a blessing to others. You just never know where a person> > is in his/her life and what they are going through.> > Never judge another persons scars, because you don't know how they> > got them. Also, it is soooo important that we are not selfish, to> > receive the blessings of these messages, without forwarding them to> > someone else. Right now, someone needs to know that God loves them,> > and you love them, too- enough to not let them go.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

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AMEN TO THAT !!!!! (ENOUGH IS ENOUGH)Jackie wrote: Could we please stop this constant banter back and forth about who believes in God & who doesn't. Everyone has the RIGHT to believe whatever they choose & should not have to worry about being drilled & explaining why they believe what they do everytime we turn around. Accept the fact we are ALL different with different beliefs and move on please. The subject line was very specific on the

content just delete for goodness sake and leave it alone already or if you just can't help yourself respond privately to that person. Hugs, Jackie LaVoy My Quiet Hero www.myquiethero.com The Order Of The Silver Rose Ohio Director www.silverrose.org We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the nightto visit violence on those who would do us harm. ~Orwell~ -- Re: Scars of Love- Religious content-Do not open if it will offend Excuse me, I really do not mean to get into a meaningless controversy. This is an honest question: You say you believe in god and you believe that god gave the surgeons the knowledge and skills necessary to treat us, then you say that god did not give us the cancer. This does not make sense to me. Either god is responsible for everything, or for nothing. It does not make sense to think that god is responsible for the good things but not for the bad stuff. Either, or...???Iza in land --God gave the surgeons the knowledge a skill to perform marvelous things. It's not God that gave us the cancer. I believe that my affliction has made my relationship stronger. - In breastcancer2 , Izaskun Fuentes Milani wrote:>> Sorry to disagree - the scars cancer survivors have are caused by surgeons,> scalpels, operations, treatments, medicine, science. I would never be so> ungrateful to my oncologist team as to deny them credit for the scars that> will hopefully save my life.> > After all, if god had the power to save us from cancer he would not put us> there in the first place.> > At least I know for a fact

that if my oncologist team could spare me from> cancer altogether, they would, and right from the beginning.> > I would not be very grateful to anyone (be it god or an oncologist team)> that would put me through cancer just to teach me a lesson and then play> hero saving me.> > Iza in land> > > >> > Today I received this in my email. Thought it to beautiful not to> > pass along.> >> >> > Some years ago, on a hot summer day in south Florida, a little boy> > decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole behind his house.> > In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he ran out the back door,> > leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he went.> > He flew

into the water, not realizing that as he swam toward the> > middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore.> > His father working in the yard saw the two as they got closer and> > closer together. In utter fear, he ran toward the water, yelling to> > his son as loudly as he could. Hearing his voice, the little boy> > became alarmed and made a U-turn to swim to his father. It was too> > late. Just as he reached his father, the alligator reached him.> > From the dock, the father grabbed his little boy by the arms just as> > the alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war> > between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the father,> > but the father was much too passionate to let go. A farmer happened> > to drive by, heard his screams, raced from his truck, took aim and> > shot the alligator.

Remarkably, after weeks and weeks in the> > hospital, the little boy survived. His legs were extremely scarred> > by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his arms, were deep> > scratches where his father's fingernails dug into his flesh in his> > effort to hang on to the son he loved. The newspaper reporter who> > interviewed the boy after the trauma, asked if he would show him his> > scars. The boy lifted his pant legs. And then, with obvious pride,> > he said to the reporter, "But look at my arms. I have great scars> > on my arms, too. I have them because my Dad wouldn't let go." You> > and I can identify with that little boy. We have scars,> > too. No, not from an alligator, but the scars of a painful past.> > Some of those scars are unsightly and have caused us deep regret.> > But, some wounds, my friend, are

because God has refused to let go.> > In the midst of your struggle, He's been there holding on to you.> > The Scripture teaches that God loves you. You are a child of God. He> > wants to protect you and provide for you in every way But sometimes> > we foolishly wade into dangerous situations, not knowing what lies> > ahead. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and we> > forget that the enemy is waiting to attack. That's when the tug-of-> > war begins - and if you have the scars of His love on your arms, be> > very, very grateful. He did not and will not ever let you go.> > Please pass this on to those you love. God has blessed you, so that> > you can be a blessing to others. You just never know where a person> > is in his/her life and what they are going through.> > Never judge another

persons scars, because you don't know how they> > got them. Also, it is soooo important that we are not selfish, to> > receive the blessings of these messages, without forwarding them to> > someone else. Right now, someone needs to know that God loves them,> > and you love them, too- enough to not let them go.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >

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As it happens, I have not been rude or disrespectful to any listmember

or their beliefs. I think my question is a good one, and I made it

clear I was making it genuinely. You want to discuss religion? Then

let's do it seriously and respectfully. I am not teasing, I am

inquiring. The ladies here who are believers should not be upset to

explain their beliefs -- what kind of faith is it that can't face the

most basic questioning? On the contrary, I would expect believers to be

happy to have this opportunity to discuss their beliefs in earnest and

exchange viewpoints with other people who happen to think differently.

I am not playing games and I am not making fun of anyone, but I happen

to have a way of thinking that is based on logic -- which is another

perfectly valid way to see the world.

And of course, anyone upset with my contributions is very welcome to

filter me out. If you do not know how to do it, I will be happy to help

you. Filtering is a very simple feature in every e-mail program that

will automatically delete my messages and you can keep reading the

discussions just as if I wasn't here. I for one am not going to delete

religious messages because I happen to be intellectually interested in

the subject.

Iza

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Iza I have had enough of this. If you want to debate religion please go to a religious group or a debate group. This is a breast cancer group. Not a debate group. Please email these ladies privately if you wish to debate. I am sure they will be happy to discuss this with you. I have put you on moderate since you seem to want to keep this going.

Hugs

nne

Breast Cancer Patients Soul Mates for Lifehttp://www.geocities.com/chucky5741/breastcancerpatients.html

Check out my breast cancer ornaments at:http://www.geocities.com/chucky5741/bcornament.htmlalso check out my other ornaments and lots of nice gifts at:http://www.cancerclub.com

Re: Scars of Love- Religious content-Do not open if it will offend

As it happens, I have not been rude or disrespectful to any listmember or their beliefs. I think my question is a good one, and I made it clear I was making it genuinely. You want to discuss religion? Then let's do it seriously and respectfully. I am not teasing, I am inquiring. The ladies here who are believers should not be upset to explain their beliefs -- what kind of faith is it that can't face the most basic questioning? On the contrary, I would expect believers to be happy to have this opportunity to discuss their beliefs in earnest and exchange viewpoints with other people who happen to think differently. I am not playing games and I am not making fun of anyone, but I happen to have a way of thinking that is based on logic -- which is another perfectly valid way to see the world. And of course, anyone upset with my contributions is very welcome to filter me out. If you do not know how to do it, I will be happy to help you. Filtering is a very simple feature in every e-mail program that will automatically delete my messages and you can keep reading the discussions just as if I wasn't here. I for one am not going to delete religious messages because I happen to be intellectually interested in the subject.Iza

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I have to put in my 2

cents here.

I think Iza has always been respectful of others opinions, and her

emails have always been in response to someone else's initial email

which included a reference to their Christian beliefs. Iza has never

initiated an email where she included agnostic beliefs or any reference

to religion.

I think it's a no-win situation to have any discussion about religion,

since no one is changing their opinion. That said, I think it is unfair

to put Iza on moderate, and not others who have disagreed when she

questioned their beliefs.

-

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I guess I have more than 2

cents to add :-)

nne, this is not a religious group per se, but women here discuss

among other things what is getting them through cancer, and for alot of

women that is a belief in a higher power. Certainly, something like

cancer will make one re-examine one's beliefs and values, and either

strengthen them or question them.

So it is difficult to keep religion out, when for so many women that is

what gives them strength to deal with it.

-

& nne Svihlik wrote on 2/16/2006,

3:14 PM:

Iza I have had enough of this. If

you want to debate religion please go to a religious group or a debate

group. This is a breast cancer group. Not a debate group. Please email

these ladies privately if you wish to debate. I am sure they will be

happy to discuss this with you. I have put you on moderate since you

seem to want to keep this going.

Hugs

nne

Breast Cancer Patients

Soul Mates for Life

http://www.geocities.com/chucky5741/breastcancerpatients.html

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,

You must have missed some of my other posts. I am NOT AGAINST people talking about how God got them through their bc or anything else. I am Catholic and VERY religious. It just seems that Iza wants to start some big discussion any time someone posts a religious prayer/site/poem etc. I have never said that people cannot talk about God. I am one that says that I will keep --------- in my prayers. Hope this helps to clarify things.

I just don't feel this is the place for a religious debate or even a political one etc.

hugs

nne

Breast Cancer Patients Soul Mates for Lifehttp://www.geocities.com/chucky5741/breastcancerpatients.html

Check out my breast cancer ornaments at:http://www.geocities.com/chucky5741/bcornament.htmlalso check out my other ornaments and lots of nice gifts at:http://www.cancerclub.com

Re: Scars of Love- Religious content-Do not open if it will offend

I guess I have more than 2 cents to add :-)nne, this is not a religious group per se, but women here discuss among other things what is getting them through cancer, and for alot of women that is a belief in a higher power. Certainly, something like cancer will make one re-examine one's beliefs and values, and either strengthen them or question them.So it is difficult to keep religion out, when for so many women that is what gives them strength to deal with it.- & nne Svihlik wrote on 2/16/2006, 3:14 PM:

Iza I have had enough of this. If you want to debate religion please go to a religious group or a debate group. This is a breast cancer group. Not a debate group. Please email these ladies privately if you wish to debate. I am sure they will be happy to discuss this with you. I have put you on moderate since you seem to want to keep this going.

Hugs

nne

Breast Cancer Patients Soul Mates for Lifehttp://www.geocities.com/chucky5741/breastcancerpatients.html

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