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Re: PECS, sign and speech

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Shaun -

Your post interests me. I think you have to follow your gut and do what you

think is best for your son. My son 4.10 is severely apraxic. He is

understood by immediate family in context almost 100% of the time. Teacher,

friends, etc only get him about 10% of the time. Because of the severity of

his delay we have been looking into augmentative communication systems. Last

year we started with some signs. The problem was exactly what you said --

people don't understand sign language so he was in the same boat. The didn't

get his unclear speech and they didn't get the signs. We are going to start

Lenny on the dynovox (sp?) communication device for school. Has your son

been given the option of a verbal output device? From what's been explained

to me, it can be programmed so that he can " talk " in complete sentences.

Best of luck.

Lynaugh

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,

I am new to the group and your post really caught my attention. I have a son

4yr 8 mos. He has been in the public school preschool program for a year now.

His class has nine student two which are reverse mainstreamed. He was

originally diagnosed as having a serve language and social delay. He has

speech and OT [sI issues] private 60 minutes a week and speech at school 3

twenty minutes session a week. I tried for OT at school but no luck. After

many evaluation at the end of march he was finally diagnose with apraxia. I

has been a real eye opening in the world my child has been trapped in. Last

week we had an augmentative language evaluation. He had gotten frustrate with

no one in the outside world understanding his signs so he tries to verbalize

with no result and it has cause him to be aggressive. They recommend the Chat

PC II for him. He needs something quick and easily accessed. I was wondering

what program you are going to use and if you [or anyone] has had any

experience with this or a program.

Sorry to ramble on, I am sure once I get the hang of this I can become more

short and to the point.

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Dear Shaun,

Your story interests me because I am wondering why augmentative devices have

not been attempted as of yet. If your son has been able to learn and use

150- 200 signs, it is clear that he has communicative intent and prerequisite

skills for communication. I work with many children who are nonverbal and

apraxic and have had amazing results with the PEC's system. It is also a

nice bridge to more complex verbal output devices. I am wondering if a

formal augmentative communication evaluation has been performed. You can ask

the school to have one done by an outside agency if you desire.

You may also want to attend a PEC's workshop so that you can see the variety

of ways that it can be used. I have seen children become very proficient

with it and use it functionally within their classes.

Good luck, this is a difficult choice.

Heidi B.

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Hi-

I have never commented before, but I felt compelled to share part of my

daughter's story in hopes that it may help you as well with your son. My

daughter just celebrated her 5th birthday today. She was just tested by a

neuropyschologist and given an IQ score of 86. We have been using signing

exact english with her for about two years. The only help that we have had

with learning sign language is a book that I purchased at & Noble.

She has learned 400 signs and uses them quite creatively. She is a concrete

visual learner and signing has been great to help her in her home

environment.

We also ran into the same problem with Sophie. She wanted to share

information with us and had no way to do it. Right now she can speak 5 words

and they are still approximations of the words. The school district was not

picking up on her signs either. They tried the PECS system, but for Sophie

she knew more words in sign then was available to her through the PECS

system. I had an augmentative communication evaluation done privately and

with the school districts approval we began a trial on the Vantage by Prentke

Romich. It is a voice output device that can speak in sentences for you. It

is similar to the Dynavox, but the language is structured differently. For

Sophie it is working wonderfully. She had advanced with the device and can

say much more than the 400 signs she has. Sometimes she will ask for her

" computer " because she wants to say something that she might not have the

sign for. I really like the fact that now when grandma comes over Sophie can

share things with her that before she was unable because of the sign language

barrier.

The reason that I am explaining all of this is that it sounds like your son

has been doing great with signing and will need something that will offer

him at least as much language as he has with his signing or it will probably

not be successful. The school district initially said that Sophie would need

to learn PECS before she could advance to such a high-tech device like the

Vantage. The issue that I pushed was the number of words that she already

had in sign language. How could PECS offer her what she already had and how

would it be motivating. I would strongly recommend that you request an

assistive technology evaluation from your school district or seek it out

privatetly if possible. It was amazing to me the number of different devices

that are available. I felt very fortunate to have a knowledgeable speech

pathologist directing the trial of the device.

I can only speak from the experience that I have had with my daughter. I hope

that I have offered you some information that may be useful.

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Does anyone know where to get more infor on the PC II or any other small

augmentive devices?

Joyce (daughter Meghan 12 years verbal apraxia)

Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech

> ,

> I am new to the group and your post really caught my attention. I have a

son

> 4yr 8 mos. He has been in the public school preschool program for a year

now.

> His class has nine student two which are reverse mainstreamed. He was

> originally diagnosed as having a serve language and social delay. He has

> speech and OT [sI issues] private 60 minutes a week and speech at school 3

> twenty minutes session a week. I tried for OT at school but no luck. After

> many evaluation at the end of march he was finally diagnose with apraxia.

I

> has been a real eye opening in the world my child has been trapped in.

Last

> week we had an augmentative language evaluation. He had gotten frustrate

with

> no one in the outside world understanding his signs so he tries to

verbalize

> with no result and it has cause him to be aggressive. They recommend the

Chat

> PC II for him. He needs something quick and easily accessed. I was

wondering

> what program you are going to use and if you [or anyone] has had any

> experience with this or a program.

>

> Sorry to ramble on, I am sure once I get the hang of this I can become

more

> short and to the point.

>

>

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Doesn't this device actually make it so that the child doesn't need to learn

to speak because they have this device? I am worried that if I got that for

my son that he would just use that and not try to speak. Maybe I am wrong

as I am not that familiar with it all. I am also terrified that when he

starts school no one will understand him and he will be terrified that Momma

is not there to help them to understand him.

Vicki

Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech

> Dear Shaun,

>

> Your story interests me because I am wondering why augmentative devices

have

> not been attempted as of yet. If your son has been able to learn and use

> 150- 200 signs, it is clear that he has communicative intent and

prerequisite

> skills for communication.

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Actually, according to the speech pathologist I am working the voice output

devices can increase a child's ability to speak because they are constantly

hearing the words they want to say when they are pushing the buttons. So far

for my daughter Sophie it has not inhibited her speech at all. She knows the

words that she is able to say and does not even attempt to use those buttons

on the device, she uses her voice for those words. I have seen her

frustration level decrease because her need to communicate and be understood

is being met.

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Vicki,

The information I have read on augmentative communication devices Say no. In

fact it encourage them to try to speak. I posed a similar question to the

therapist who did my son evaluation. They explain to me that even if you

understand a word, but are unable to use it you will lose it over a period of

time. So the us of a device will help to prevent it from happening.

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,

Thanks for the post, I would like to know what system your child uses. We

have had the PC Chat II recommend for my 3 yr. son. Did it take her long to

learn how to use the system. I feel that this is going to help my son

communicate outside of school and home. Was it hard to program your system

and where did you get assassinates in learning it.

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Hi everyone and welcome newcomers!

There is a comprehensive website, YAACK, which answer questions and

concerns about the use of ACC devices. I feel members will find this

resource informative/helpful for those interested in learning more

about augmentative and alternative communication.

Mustafa

Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) Connecting Young

Kids (YAACK) Home Page

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/index.html

" Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) Connecting Young

Kids (YAACK) is a website that covers issues related to AAC and young

children. Its purpose is to provide information and guidance to

families, teachers, speech/language pathologists and anyone else who

is involved with a child with special communication needs. It is

intended to be easy to understand and practical, and to cover a wide

range of topics dealing with AAC and AAC-related issues of children

at various ages and stages of communication ability, and with

different strengths, disabilities and learning characteristics.

YAACK is based on the premise that the purpose of AAC is to assist

the child in attaining the quality of life that approaches the level

of satisfaction and meaningfulness that would have been possible if

the child did not have a communication disability. Therefore, the

child's ability to communicate when, where and what is desired is the

goal; AAC is just the means. YAACK emphasizes the individuality of

each child, and stresses the fact that there is no single solution or

set of procedures that will work for every child. Success depends on

really getting to know and understand the child, and then developing

and implementing a communication program that takes into account his

or her unique characteristics. "

What is augmentative and alternative communication (AAC)?

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b0.html

When does a child need AAC?

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b1.html

Risk factors for a communication impairment

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b1.html#b1a

Does AAC impede natural speech? —and other fears

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b2.html

Finding answers to specific AAC questions

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html

Communication boards and VOCAs

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d5.html#d5b

Children with specific disabilities

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d4.html

Children with apraxia

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d4.html#d4f

Children with motor impairments

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d4.html#d4a

On-line AAC discussion groups

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html#b5a

Books

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html#b5b

" The following are listings of books on AAC and communication-related

issues. "

" Selected Books on Augmentative Communication and Adaptive Play "

compiled by J. Burkhart is located at

www.lburkhart.com/sr.htm#2.

" Augmentative and Alternative Communication Related Reference List "

compiled by Dr. R. Beukelman and Dr. Pat Mirenda at

aac.unl.edu/aacinref.html.

Other Internet resources

http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html#b5c

" The following are Internet websites with a strong focus on AAC

and/or communication disability-related issues. They are not arranged

in any particular order. "

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and Joyce,

Lenny had his augmentative review today. He did great. He will be getting

the ChatPC-II as well. It is essentially a palm pilot with verbal output.

It can be programmed with simple sight words, icons or it can be used as a

word processor. It is under 2lbs and should be easy for him to carry around.

It seems very durable. We requested the Dynavox Dynamite but this was

comparable.

If you have any questions, email me directly.

Lynaugh

LynaughBoyz@...

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-

My daughter is 5 years old. We went through a Gillette Technology Center for

the evaluation. I needed a presciption from her pediatrician for an

augmentative communication evaluation and treatment. After that the Vantage

was recommended for a trial based on Sophie's current capablilites. She had

300+ signs at the time and the speech pathologist said she needed a device

with at least that much capacity. She also needed a keyguard because her

fine motor skills were not strong enough to push one space without her entire

hand being on the screen. The two devices they recommended were the Vantage

and the Dynamite. Our speech pathologist prefers the Vantage so we tried it.

We also went back to see her for 90 minutes every other week for 3 months.

I did a hands on 3 hour training and 3 2-hour trainings via the internet to

prepare for the device. We will be purchasing the Vantage and will continue

to see the speech therapist who recommended it 1x per month for support. Her

school special ed teacher is also getting training on the device to support

it in the school setting. You can check out the website <A

HREF= " www.prentro.com " >www.prentro.com</A> for

more information. If I have not answered all your questions please ask. I

am very excited about the device we have chosen for our daughter. One more

thing that the speech pathologist said is that you will know if your child is

comprehending the device by their use of it during the day. Alot of the

learning will come from modeling its use throughout the course of the day.

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I am desperately seeking resources to enable a parent to obtain monies (a

scholarship or anything) that would help them be able to attend a conference on

their child's very rare disability. They live in Oregon and the conference is

in Chicago. In the past, I had heard of an organization based in Alabama I

believe that funds scholarships to parents in these situations. They write an

essay about how attending could benefit their community (perhaps they'd teach an

awareness class or something) and they'd be able to tap into that every 3 years

or something.

Can anyone think of some resources I can give this parent to try so they may be

able to go?? Does anyone recognize this agency I am describing??

Thanks,

Tammy Bradley

Oregon Parent Training and Information Center

503-642-0226

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Thank you for the input, I will talk to my therapist about it now.

Vicki

Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech

> Actually, according to the speech pathologist I am working the voice

output

> devices can increase a child's ability to speak because they are

constantly

> hearing the words they want to say when they are pushing the buttons. So

far

> for my daughter Sophie it has not inhibited her speech at all. She knows

the

> words that she is able to say and does not even attempt to use those

buttons

> on the device, she uses her voice for those words. I have seen her

> frustration level decrease because her need to communicate and be

understood

> is being met.

>

>

>

>

>

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