Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Shaun - Your post interests me. I think you have to follow your gut and do what you think is best for your son. My son 4.10 is severely apraxic. He is understood by immediate family in context almost 100% of the time. Teacher, friends, etc only get him about 10% of the time. Because of the severity of his delay we have been looking into augmentative communication systems. Last year we started with some signs. The problem was exactly what you said -- people don't understand sign language so he was in the same boat. The didn't get his unclear speech and they didn't get the signs. We are going to start Lenny on the dynovox (sp?) communication device for school. Has your son been given the option of a verbal output device? From what's been explained to me, it can be programmed so that he can " talk " in complete sentences. Best of luck. Lynaugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 , I am new to the group and your post really caught my attention. I have a son 4yr 8 mos. He has been in the public school preschool program for a year now. His class has nine student two which are reverse mainstreamed. He was originally diagnosed as having a serve language and social delay. He has speech and OT [sI issues] private 60 minutes a week and speech at school 3 twenty minutes session a week. I tried for OT at school but no luck. After many evaluation at the end of march he was finally diagnose with apraxia. I has been a real eye opening in the world my child has been trapped in. Last week we had an augmentative language evaluation. He had gotten frustrate with no one in the outside world understanding his signs so he tries to verbalize with no result and it has cause him to be aggressive. They recommend the Chat PC II for him. He needs something quick and easily accessed. I was wondering what program you are going to use and if you [or anyone] has had any experience with this or a program. Sorry to ramble on, I am sure once I get the hang of this I can become more short and to the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Dear Shaun, Your story interests me because I am wondering why augmentative devices have not been attempted as of yet. If your son has been able to learn and use 150- 200 signs, it is clear that he has communicative intent and prerequisite skills for communication. I work with many children who are nonverbal and apraxic and have had amazing results with the PEC's system. It is also a nice bridge to more complex verbal output devices. I am wondering if a formal augmentative communication evaluation has been performed. You can ask the school to have one done by an outside agency if you desire. You may also want to attend a PEC's workshop so that you can see the variety of ways that it can be used. I have seen children become very proficient with it and use it functionally within their classes. Good luck, this is a difficult choice. Heidi B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Hi- I have never commented before, but I felt compelled to share part of my daughter's story in hopes that it may help you as well with your son. My daughter just celebrated her 5th birthday today. She was just tested by a neuropyschologist and given an IQ score of 86. We have been using signing exact english with her for about two years. The only help that we have had with learning sign language is a book that I purchased at & Noble. She has learned 400 signs and uses them quite creatively. She is a concrete visual learner and signing has been great to help her in her home environment. We also ran into the same problem with Sophie. She wanted to share information with us and had no way to do it. Right now she can speak 5 words and they are still approximations of the words. The school district was not picking up on her signs either. They tried the PECS system, but for Sophie she knew more words in sign then was available to her through the PECS system. I had an augmentative communication evaluation done privately and with the school districts approval we began a trial on the Vantage by Prentke Romich. It is a voice output device that can speak in sentences for you. It is similar to the Dynavox, but the language is structured differently. For Sophie it is working wonderfully. She had advanced with the device and can say much more than the 400 signs she has. Sometimes she will ask for her " computer " because she wants to say something that she might not have the sign for. I really like the fact that now when grandma comes over Sophie can share things with her that before she was unable because of the sign language barrier. The reason that I am explaining all of this is that it sounds like your son has been doing great with signing and will need something that will offer him at least as much language as he has with his signing or it will probably not be successful. The school district initially said that Sophie would need to learn PECS before she could advance to such a high-tech device like the Vantage. The issue that I pushed was the number of words that she already had in sign language. How could PECS offer her what she already had and how would it be motivating. I would strongly recommend that you request an assistive technology evaluation from your school district or seek it out privatetly if possible. It was amazing to me the number of different devices that are available. I felt very fortunate to have a knowledgeable speech pathologist directing the trial of the device. I can only speak from the experience that I have had with my daughter. I hope that I have offered you some information that may be useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 2003 Report Share Posted May 18, 2003 Does anyone know where to get more infor on the PC II or any other small augmentive devices? Joyce (daughter Meghan 12 years verbal apraxia) Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech > , > I am new to the group and your post really caught my attention. I have a son > 4yr 8 mos. He has been in the public school preschool program for a year now. > His class has nine student two which are reverse mainstreamed. He was > originally diagnosed as having a serve language and social delay. He has > speech and OT [sI issues] private 60 minutes a week and speech at school 3 > twenty minutes session a week. I tried for OT at school but no luck. After > many evaluation at the end of march he was finally diagnose with apraxia. I > has been a real eye opening in the world my child has been trapped in. Last > week we had an augmentative language evaluation. He had gotten frustrate with > no one in the outside world understanding his signs so he tries to verbalize > with no result and it has cause him to be aggressive. They recommend the Chat > PC II for him. He needs something quick and easily accessed. I was wondering > what program you are going to use and if you [or anyone] has had any > experience with this or a program. > > Sorry to ramble on, I am sure once I get the hang of this I can become more > short and to the point. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Doesn't this device actually make it so that the child doesn't need to learn to speak because they have this device? I am worried that if I got that for my son that he would just use that and not try to speak. Maybe I am wrong as I am not that familiar with it all. I am also terrified that when he starts school no one will understand him and he will be terrified that Momma is not there to help them to understand him. Vicki Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech > Dear Shaun, > > Your story interests me because I am wondering why augmentative devices have > not been attempted as of yet. If your son has been able to learn and use > 150- 200 signs, it is clear that he has communicative intent and prerequisite > skills for communication. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Actually, according to the speech pathologist I am working the voice output devices can increase a child's ability to speak because they are constantly hearing the words they want to say when they are pushing the buttons. So far for my daughter Sophie it has not inhibited her speech at all. She knows the words that she is able to say and does not even attempt to use those buttons on the device, she uses her voice for those words. I have seen her frustration level decrease because her need to communicate and be understood is being met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 A small device that might work for your daughter is the Palmtop Portabel IMPACT by Enkidu. You can get more information @ <A HREF= " www.enkidu.net " >www.enkidu.net</A> or 1-800-297-9570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 You can get the PC-Chat and other devices from Mayer-,Inc./www.mayer-johnson.com or 800-588-4548. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Vicki, The information I have read on augmentative communication devices Say no. In fact it encourage them to try to speak. I posed a similar question to the therapist who did my son evaluation. They explain to me that even if you understand a word, but are unable to use it you will lose it over a period of time. So the us of a device will help to prevent it from happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 , Thanks for the post, I would like to know what system your child uses. We have had the PC Chat II recommend for my 3 yr. son. Did it take her long to learn how to use the system. I feel that this is going to help my son communicate outside of school and home. Was it hard to program your system and where did you get assassinates in learning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 you may try www.mayer-johnson.com. Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech Does anyone know where to get more infor on the PC II or any other small augmentive devices? Joyce (daughter Meghan 12 years verbal apraxia) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 Hi everyone and welcome newcomers! There is a comprehensive website, YAACK, which answer questions and concerns about the use of ACC devices. I feel members will find this resource informative/helpful for those interested in learning more about augmentative and alternative communication. Mustafa Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) Connecting Young Kids (YAACK) Home Page http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/index.html " Augmentative and Alternative Communication (AAC) Connecting Young Kids (YAACK) is a website that covers issues related to AAC and young children. Its purpose is to provide information and guidance to families, teachers, speech/language pathologists and anyone else who is involved with a child with special communication needs. It is intended to be easy to understand and practical, and to cover a wide range of topics dealing with AAC and AAC-related issues of children at various ages and stages of communication ability, and with different strengths, disabilities and learning characteristics. YAACK is based on the premise that the purpose of AAC is to assist the child in attaining the quality of life that approaches the level of satisfaction and meaningfulness that would have been possible if the child did not have a communication disability. Therefore, the child's ability to communicate when, where and what is desired is the goal; AAC is just the means. YAACK emphasizes the individuality of each child, and stresses the fact that there is no single solution or set of procedures that will work for every child. Success depends on really getting to know and understand the child, and then developing and implementing a communication program that takes into account his or her unique characteristics. " What is augmentative and alternative communication (AAC)? http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b0.html When does a child need AAC? http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b1.html Risk factors for a communication impairment http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b1.html#b1a Does AAC impede natural speech? —and other fears http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b2.html Finding answers to specific AAC questions http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html Communication boards and VOCAs http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d5.html#d5b Children with specific disabilities http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d4.html Children with apraxia http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d4.html#d4f Children with motor impairments http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/d4.html#d4a On-line AAC discussion groups http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html#b5a Books http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html#b5b " The following are listings of books on AAC and communication-related issues. " " Selected Books on Augmentative Communication and Adaptive Play " compiled by J. Burkhart is located at www.lburkhart.com/sr.htm#2. " Augmentative and Alternative Communication Related Reference List " compiled by Dr. R. Beukelman and Dr. Pat Mirenda at aac.unl.edu/aacinref.html. Other Internet resources http://aac.unl.edu/yaack/b5.html#b5c " The following are Internet websites with a strong focus on AAC and/or communication disability-related issues. They are not arranged in any particular order. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 2003 Report Share Posted May 19, 2003 and Joyce, Lenny had his augmentative review today. He did great. He will be getting the ChatPC-II as well. It is essentially a palm pilot with verbal output. It can be programmed with simple sight words, icons or it can be used as a word processor. It is under 2lbs and should be easy for him to carry around. It seems very durable. We requested the Dynavox Dynamite but this was comparable. If you have any questions, email me directly. Lynaugh LynaughBoyz@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 - My daughter is 5 years old. We went through a Gillette Technology Center for the evaluation. I needed a presciption from her pediatrician for an augmentative communication evaluation and treatment. After that the Vantage was recommended for a trial based on Sophie's current capablilites. She had 300+ signs at the time and the speech pathologist said she needed a device with at least that much capacity. She also needed a keyguard because her fine motor skills were not strong enough to push one space without her entire hand being on the screen. The two devices they recommended were the Vantage and the Dynamite. Our speech pathologist prefers the Vantage so we tried it. We also went back to see her for 90 minutes every other week for 3 months. I did a hands on 3 hour training and 3 2-hour trainings via the internet to prepare for the device. We will be purchasing the Vantage and will continue to see the speech therapist who recommended it 1x per month for support. Her school special ed teacher is also getting training on the device to support it in the school setting. You can check out the website <A HREF= " www.prentro.com " >www.prentro.com</A> for more information. If I have not answered all your questions please ask. I am very excited about the device we have chosen for our daughter. One more thing that the speech pathologist said is that you will know if your child is comprehending the device by their use of it during the day. Alot of the learning will come from modeling its use throughout the course of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 20, 2003 Report Share Posted May 20, 2003 I am desperately seeking resources to enable a parent to obtain monies (a scholarship or anything) that would help them be able to attend a conference on their child's very rare disability. They live in Oregon and the conference is in Chicago. In the past, I had heard of an organization based in Alabama I believe that funds scholarships to parents in these situations. They write an essay about how attending could benefit their community (perhaps they'd teach an awareness class or something) and they'd be able to tap into that every 3 years or something. Can anyone think of some resources I can give this parent to try so they may be able to go?? Does anyone recognize this agency I am describing?? Thanks, Tammy Bradley Oregon Parent Training and Information Center 503-642-0226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2003 Report Share Posted May 21, 2003 Thank you for the input, I will talk to my therapist about it now. Vicki Re: [ ] PECS, sign and speech > Actually, according to the speech pathologist I am working the voice output > devices can increase a child's ability to speak because they are constantly > hearing the words they want to say when they are pushing the buttons. So far > for my daughter Sophie it has not inhibited her speech at all. She knows the > words that she is able to say and does not even attempt to use those buttons > on the device, she uses her voice for those words. I have seen her > frustration level decrease because her need to communicate and be understood > is being met. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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