Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

[Guest guest]

> It may be because right now I'm only on 60mgs, but I am interested

in how this may be related to adrenal problems.

, you can also have overreactive adrenals due to being

underdosed with your thyroid meds. One grain is not enough for the

VAST majority of folks.

Janie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/21/2004 12:45:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

tayamni@... writes:

> it was a physiological addiction used to supplement where the adrenals had

> no more to give. Cold turkey, no caffeine, no headaches, no moodiness. It's

> all so clear to me now.

>

I did the same thing...but even before the adrenal support. once I started

Armour...I stopped a 10 plus a day coffee habit. I have one cup in the morning

now.

Cindi

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I do think it is quite possible that you have adrenal fatigue.

Looking back at myself and my husband...and my mother, come to think of

it....the symptoms are erratic but with a pattern of getting worse over time.

You cannot expect to match the list of symptoms. However, if you can find that

your problems, life style and history fit the picture, I think you have to

consider it. Remember that thyroid dysfunction in itself creates a huge amount

of stress....depleting the adrenals every waking and sleeping moment. I think

they have to be considered hand and hand unless proven otherwise.

It is possible that your eating reaction is related to your adrenals. No, your

symptoms are not specifically listed, but generalizations are....intolerance to

carbs, etc.

Let me give you a couple examples to ponder: My husband was an absolute ADDICT

to caffeine. Deprive him and you better fear for your life. As I said, he

crashed from adrenal exhaustion, in the worst way. I had to scrape him up off

the floor almost. He was too weak to move. Once he started the hydrocortisone he

lost his need for caffeine...just like that. I was amazed. I had thought the

caffeine addiction was an actual caffeine addiction. it was a physiological

addiction used to supplement where the adrenals had no more to give. Cold

turkey, no caffeine, no headaches, no moodiness. It's all so clear to me now.

Example 2: my mom lost her mother to cancer, then she was diagnosed with uterine

cancer, then their house burned down, then a metastasis showed up, she had

cancer treatment, several lawsuits came up with their rebuilding their

house.....then she started to get so weak she could barely move. Her typical

pattern everyday was to wake up tired, eat breakfast and then get terribly weak

and go lie down for a few hours. The drs did every test in the book and ended up

giving her Wellbutrin, of course, because it must be all in her mind. Some how

she ended up going to an endo who was doing research. Though all her adrenal

function tests were within normal range, he decided to give her a test run of

prednisone. Guess what? She felt better. So he then put her on a short course of

Florinef at a low dose. Her symptoms went away. I recall also that she was

having a terrible time with abdominal discomfort. I don't know that her patterns

were related well to eating or not eating. She still ate, but her appetite was

way down. She kept thinking it was either this or that that made her painful or

weak. It seemed to change every day. It was a bit confusing. Turns out it was

just an adrenal problem...not 's...just severe fatigue.

By the way, I am jealous of your easy weight loss on low carbs! If I had

continued to loose weight I would have stuck with it though feeling miserable. I

am 5'9 " with a farm-girl build and have probably 20 pounds of blubber mostly

around my middle. I don't mind keeping 10 of it for the production of estrogen

later....but these other 10 pounds really bother me. They seem to be all packed

together. I have a 35 " inseam...grasshopper legs....which leaves very little

body to hold all this blubber. I'm suspicious that all the adrenal spiking with

its fatigue caused fat to be laid down around the middle axis. That is what I

have read. I hate it!

My opinion is that it cannot hurt to try a round of hydrocortisone and see how

you feel. It's the best test. After all, docs will hand out mega doses of pred

for other illnesses without much thought....which is wrong. The amount of

hydrocortisone is a physiological dose. My opinion: no harm done with a short

trial.

Even if you are having allergies to some foods....that could be related to your

thyroid or ( potential) adrenal issues. It can be a whole package deal.

Deficiencies of digestive enzymes can also cause eating issues. This can also be

related to low thyroid, or not.

The all day saliva tests are good, but do need educated interpretation. As with

the thyroid levels, we are all better or worse only within or out of our OWN

range.

Please let us know what you will do. Your experience can help others. :-)

Best,

Roxanna

Roxanna V. Knight-Plouff, D.V.M.

W Plouff

North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc

northstargsdr@...

www.northstargsdr.org

Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi Roxanne,

Thanks so much for the long reply! I'm sorry to write a long one back, but I

desperately hope someone can shed some light on my looooong standing problem!

I believe it was Peatfield's article that talked about the

blood pressure sit/stand test. Mine was normal pre-Armour. He mentioned the

possibility of adrenal " collapse " with the new availability of thyroid hormone.

I do have symptoms of adrenal problems. I've never done the sit/stand test,

but my blood pressure is almost always low when it's taken at the doctor's

office, enough that the nurse often asks me if that is normal. When I look at

the list of symptoms I have (or have had) some, but not all. And my worst

symptom, the distinct problems right AFTER eating, are never really listed

anywhere. Hypoglycemia is, but that's usually defined as needing to eat every

two hours. If I eat every two hours I'm a wreak, because I feel worse after

eating. I feel best if I have a large meat meal for breakfast including a big

bunch of chocolate at the end and than don't eat for eight hours or even the

rest of the day. Of course, everything tells me that's not healthy for my body

and I agree. But I don't seem to find any answer to allow me to eat normally.

I'm now eating a low carb menu than breaking down and consuming chocolate or

caffeine when I can't function any longer. And the low carb does make me lose

weight (when I don't supplement with chocolate too often), so much so that

everyone tells me I'm too thin. (I was 70pounds overweight before I started

unraveling all my health problems, now I'm 5'3 " and between 105 and 110pds). I

did seem to have somewhat less severe symptoms the ten days I did the low carb

eating with no " cheating, " (and I lost weight very quickly despite eating tons

of fatty food), but it was very difficult and my symptoms never left me. And the

first few days my symptoms got very much worse. It's such a puzzle to me.

Also, I never really can be sure of what is helping and what is not, because

even before I started this experimentation I've had unexplainable " bad " and

" good " periods with the " blood sugar " (or whatever) problems. I've had this

problem many years in differing levels of severity, and sometimes out of the

blue it practically goes away, I lose weight, and I eat pretty normally. Then,

out of the blue, like a switch has been thrown, I start having terrible problems

again, I go crazy with food, and nothing can stop it. I have Hashimoto's

disease, so I wonder if maybe the bad periods are when it flares up. As I get

older, the bad periods get longer and closer together. This is all one reason

why I wonder if thyroid meds may solve the problem, or at least make it

manageable.

My doctor has been very cautious about pushing too much thyroid meds because

he's afriad of the adrenals being too stressed. We tried using licorice for

adrenal support, but I had a bad reaction to it (extreme water retention) and I

had to stop. I do have some of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue and have read

Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome by . I follow the

recommendations and they have helped a lot. Adding extra salt to my diet seemed

to help, and I feel much better now than I did several months ago. I meditate,

try to lie down throughout the day, have eliminated as much stress as possible,

exercise (run and weight lift, alternately, daily), and take supplements. But I

still have the " eating " problem.

However, the 5 mg of hydrocortisone have worked

magic. I take it every 4 hours. Have I improved? Yes, over the last 3 weeks I do

not feel i " need " the next dose, tho I do take it. For a while you could set a

clock by the return of hypo-adrenal symptoms. In my case it was over-reactivity

to small stresses. Post Armour my BP tests also changed. Instead of rising upon

standing as it did pre-Armour, it has dropped or stayed very low. But, for the

last 2 days my BP has risen when standing, so I think I am getting healthier.

Does the hydrocortisone take over for your adrenals? My doctor says he wants

to try supplements before going to meds. Did you try any, or did you go straight

to the hydrocortisone because you crashed on the tyroid meds? I push my doctor

somewhat to up my thyroid meds to get rid of this eating problem, but of course

I don't want to crash either. We haven't done any testing for adrenal problems

yet, but he's talking about a 24hour cortisol test, I think, using saliva.

It has not been a completely smooth road. My body

is worn out enough that if there are additional stresses....like the DPW using a

burr-chipper on all our privacy shrubs.......I do crash that day and the

next....feel stressed, irritable and exhausted when I wake in the morning.

Several months ago I had this problem too. Any stress, even something

relatively minor, would make me weak, exhausted and totally overwhelmed. I don't

feel so fragile right now though. I've been upping my thyroid med and following

many of the suggestions in the Adrenal Fatigue book (except for eliminating

coffee and chocolate).

I had that at times and attributed it to some

insulin thing. However, when I dropped carbs it got WORSE! I went way past any

adjustment time needed to get into lipolysis. I had the ketone strips to test

too. I felt lousy during a lypolytic state.

When I dropped carbs the first few days I was so weak I could barely function.

It got better, but never great. I always had the symptoms after I ate (weakness

OR depression OR very strong cravings). I did only go ten days following the

diet exactly. But I did use caffeine too, which my diet didn't forbid. So maybe

that would've made a difference. I just can't function, though, without it. If I

could live with no family, no stress, and no obligations, I could do it, but of

course that's impossible. I have two kids, 5 and 9, and my oldest has a lot of

needs, including being in a " gifted " program at school but having " learning

disabilities. " I spend a lot of time on him.

As it turned out, the plan I had

followed for insulin resistance ALSO helped to feed the adrenals. After eating

her way for 7 months straight, I hardly ever had an episode...however, I gained

weight and so quit that!

This is interesting to me, because I lost weight, at least in the beginning,

almost too fast. I lost a pound every day for six days and kept it off, and I

really didn't need to lose any. People started telling me I looked bad. When I

started bingeing on chocolate I gained some back, but when I adhere to the diet

without chocolate (using caffeine to keep going) I lose weight again. And I eat

plenty of calories and probably too much fat. But Dr Rind's site did say that

animal fat is beneficial to the adrenals, and I have been improving while eating

salt and meat. But then again, I've also been upping my thyroid meds at the same

time. So what causes what? Very confusing.

One of the problems with all these exocrime

glands of ours is that our symptoms can be a mishmash of overlap from several

dysfunctions at once. I tried to sort out thyroid vs adrenal. Being almost 47 I

decided i am probably in need of progesterone and do apply a cream.

I agree. It is all so hard to figure out. The first health issue I unraveled

was discovering that I react to artificial colors, flavors and preservatives.

I'm on the Feingold diet for that. Then I discovered I have a milk allergy. That

was causing major problems. Then I discovered the thyroid problem. The thyroid

meds have helped a lot. Now I'm wondering about the adrenals. I've had so many

symptoms caused by so many things, it's very hard. I wonder, though, if it was

all started by my thyroid deficiency. Looking back I think I definitely had

thyroid problems as a child, as did my mom. My son (9yrs old) has just tested

positive for Hashimoto's and has a high TSH. I'm hoping catching this early will

save him a lot of grief. And I'm 38, so I don't look forward to adding

perimenopause problems to the mix, whenever that begins.

I have ruled out insulin resistance at this

point. i just do not have that set of symptoms. Did i experience hypoglycemia?

yes, i think so, but related to adrenals and thyroid.

This is what I wonder. Does what I have look like insulin resistance but is

really caused by thyroid and adrenal problems?

Go to the files area for this group. There are

some articles on adrenal/thyroid stuff. It's a real eye opener. Suddenly one can

make sense of all these abnormalities. I'll try to find and post the 2

lists/charts i had found.

Thanks for the info! I read everything. My problem is nothing lists my eating

problem exactly, and thus far nothing has solved it. Maybe I just need to keep

treating the thyroid and start working on the adrenals and wait. My doctor wants

to start supplements for the adrenals after I've transitioned to Armour (I was

on gradually increasing doses of T3 and decided to try Armour). I just feel

really uncomfortable because I feel like using caffeine and/or chocolate is so

destructive for my body, but I can't function unless I do. I'm afraid I'll

really mess myself up more, but right now I have no alternatives. I guess I'll

just keep searching and experimenting. I have been getting better, so that is

good.

I live in the Wash DC area, and I notice Dr Rind's office is in DC. Anyone use

him, or have an opinion on whether a visit with him would be worthwhile? I like

my doctor, but he's definitely not an expert on thyroid or adrenal issues.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

Hi Roxanne,

Thanks so much for the long reply! I'm sorry to write a long one back, but I

desperately hope someone can shed some light on my looooong standing problem!

I believe it was Peatfield's article that talked about the

blood pressure sit/stand test. Mine was normal pre-Armour. He mentioned the

possibility of adrenal " collapse " with the new availability of thyroid hormone.

I do have symptoms of adrenal problems. I've never done the sit/stand test, but

my blood pressure is almost always low when it's taken at the doctor's office,

enough that the nurse often asks me if that is normal. When I look at the list

of symptoms I have (or have had) some, but not all. And my worst symptom, the

distinct problems right AFTER eating, are never really listed anywhere.

Hypoglycemia is, but that's usually defined as needing to eat every two hours.

If I eat every two hours I'm a wreak, because I feel worse after eating. I feel

best if I have a large meat meal for breakfast including a big bunch of

chocolate at the end and than don't eat for eight hours or even the rest of the

day. Of course, everything tells me that's not healthy for my body and I agree.

But I don't seem to find any answer to allow me to eat normally. I'm now eating

a low carb menu than breaking down and consuming chocolate or caffeine when I

can't function any longer. And the low carb does make me lose weight (when I

don't supplement with chocolate too often), so much so that everyone tells me

I'm too thin. (I was 70pounds overweight before I started unraveling all my

health problems, now I'm 5'3 " and between 105 and 110pds). I did seem to have

somewhat less severe symptoms the ten days I did the low carb eating with no

" cheating, " (and I lost weight very quickly despite eating tons of fatty food),

but it was very difficult and my symptoms never left me. And the first few days

my symptoms got very much worse. It's such a puzzle to me.

Also, I never really can be sure of what is helping and what is not, because

even before I started this experimentation I've had unexplainable " bad " and

" good " periods with the " blood sugar " (or whatever) problems. I've had this

problem many years in differing levels of severity, and sometimes out of the

blue it practically goes away, I lose weight, and I eat pretty normally. Then,

out of the blue, like a switch has been thrown, I start having terrible problems

again, I go crazy with food, and nothing can stop it. I have Hashimoto's

disease, so I wonder if maybe the bad periods are when it flares up. As I get

older, the bad periods get longer and closer together. This is all one reason

why I wonder if thyroid meds may solve the problem, or at least make it

manageable.

My doctor has been very cautious about pushing too much thyroid meds because

he's afriad of the adrenals being too stressed. We tried using licorice for

adrenal support, but I had a bad reaction to it (extreme water retention) and I

had to stop. I do have some of the symptoms of adrenal fatigue and have read

Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome by . I follow the

recommendations and they have helped a lot. Adding extra salt to my diet seemed

to help, and I feel much better now than I did several months ago. I meditate,

try to lie down throughout the day, have eliminated as much stress as possible,

exercise (run and weight lift, alternately, daily), and take supplements. But I

still have the " eating " problem.

However, the 5 mg of hydrocortisone have worked

magic. I take it every 4 hours. Have I improved? Yes, over the last 3 weeks I do

not feel i " need " the next dose, tho I do take it. For a while you could set a

clock by the return of hypo-adrenal symptoms. In my case it was over-reactivity

to small stresses. Post Armour my BP tests also changed. Instead of rising upon

standing as it did pre-Armour, it has dropped or stayed very low. But, for the

last 2 days my BP has risen when standing, so I think I am getting healthier.

Does the hydrocortisone take over for your adrenals? My doctor says he wants to

try supplements before going to meds. Did you try any, or did you go straight to

the hydrocortisone because you crashed on the tyroid meds? I push my doctor

somewhat to up my thyroid meds to get rid of this eating problem, but of course

I don't want to crash either. We haven't done any testing for adrenal problems

yet, but he's talking about a 24hour cortisol test, I think, using saliva.

It has not been a completely smooth road. My body

is worn out enough that if there are additional stresses....like the DPW using a

burr-chipper on all our privacy shrubs.......I do crash that day and the

next....feel stressed, irritable and exhausted when I wake in the morning.

Several months ago I had this problem too. Any stress, even something relatively

minor, would make me weak, exhausted and totally overwhelmed. I don't feel so

fragile right now though. I've been upping my thyroid med and following many of

the suggestions in the Adrenal Fatigue book (except for eliminating coffee and

chocolate).

I had that at times and attributed it to some

insulin thing. However, when I dropped carbs it got WORSE! I went way past any

adjustment time needed to get into lipolysis. I had the ketone strips to test

too. I felt lousy during a lypolytic state.

When I dropped carbs the first few days I was so weak I could barely function.

It got better, but never great. I always had the symptoms after I ate (weakness

OR depression OR very strong cravings). I did only go ten days following the

diet exactly. But I did use caffeine too, which my diet didn't forbid. So maybe

that would've made a difference. I just can't function, though, without it. If I

could live with no family, no stress, and no obligations, I could do it, but of

course that's impossible. I have two kids, 5 and 9, and my oldest has a lot of

needs, including being in a " gifted " program at school but having " learning

disabilities. " I spend a lot of time on him.

As it turned out, the plan I had followed

for insulin resistance ALSO helped to feed the adrenals. After eating her way

for 7 months straight, I hardly ever had an episode...however, I gained weight

and so quit that!

This is interesting to me, because I lost weight, at least in the beginning,

almost too fast. I lost a pound every day for six days and kept it off, and I

really didn't need to lose any. People started telling me I looked bad. When I

started bingeing on chocolate I gained some back, but when I adhere to the diet

without chocolate (using caffeine to keep going) I lose weight again. And I eat

plenty of calories and probably too much fat. But Dr Rind's site did say that

animal fat is beneficial to the adrenals, and I have been improving while eating

salt and meat. But then again, I've also been upping my thyroid meds at the same

time. So what causes what? Very confusing.

One of the problems with all these exocrime

glands of ours is that our symptoms can be a mishmash of overlap from several

dysfunctions at once. I tried to sort out thyroid vs adrenal. Being almost 47 I

decided i am probably in need of progesterone and do apply a cream.

I agree. It is all so hard to figure out. The first health issue I unraveled was

discovering that I react to artificial colors, flavors and preservatives. I'm on

the Feingold diet for that. Then I discovered I have a milk allergy. That was

causing major problems. Then I discovered the thyroid problem. The thyroid meds

have helped a lot. Now I'm wondering about the adrenals. I've had so many

symptoms caused by so many things, it's very hard. I wonder, though, if it was

all started by my thyroid deficiency. Looking back I think I definitely had

thyroid problems as a child, as did my mom. My son (9yrs old) has just tested

positive for Hashimoto's and has a high TSH. I'm hoping catching this early will

save him a lot of grief. And I'm 38, so I don't look forward to adding

perimenopause problems to the mix, whenever that begins.

I have ruled out insulin resistance at this

point. i just do not have that set of symptoms. Did i experience hypoglycemia?

yes, i think so, but related to adrenals and thyroid.

This is what I wonder. Does what I have look like insulin resistance but is

really caused by thyroid and adrenal problems?

Go to the files area for this group. There are

some articles on adrenal/thyroid stuff. It's a real eye opener. Suddenly one can

make sense of all these abnormalities. I'll try to find and post the 2

lists/charts i had found.

Thanks for the info! I read everything. My problem is nothing lists my eating

problem exactly, and thus far nothing has solved it. Maybe I just need to keep

treating the thyroid and start working on the adrenals and wait. My doctor wants

to start supplements for the adrenals after I've transitioned to Armour (I was

on gradually increasing doses of T3 and decided to try Armour). I just feel

really uncomfortable because I feel like using caffeine and/or chocolate is so

destructive for my body, but I can't function unless I do. I'm afraid I'll

really mess myself up more, but right now I have no alternatives. I guess I'll

just keep searching and experimenting. I have been getting better, so that is

good.

I live in the Wash DC area, and I notice Dr Rind's office is in DC. Anyone use

him, or have an opinion on whether a visit with him would be worthwhile? I like

my doctor, but he's definitely not an expert on thyroid or adrenal issues.

Thanks!

[Guest guest]

By definition hypoglycemia is when the blood sugar falls below

fasting level....weak adrenals = hypoglycemia.

>

> Hi Roxanne,

>

> Thanks so much for the long reply! I'm sorry to write a long one

back, but I desperately hope someone can shed some light on my

looooong standing problem!

>

> I believe it was Peatfield's article that talked

about the blood pressure sit/stand test. Mine was normal pre-Armour.

He mentioned the possibility of adrenal " collapse " with the new

availability of thyroid hormone.

>

> I do have symptoms of adrenal problems. I've never done the

sit/stand test, but my blood pressure is almost always low when it's

taken at the doctor's office, enough that the nurse often asks me if

that is normal. When I look at the list of symptoms I have (or have

had) some, but not all. And my worst symptom, the distinct problems

right AFTER eating, are never really listed anywhere. Hypoglycemia

is, but that's usually defined as needing to eat every two hours. If

I eat every two hours I'm a wreak, because I feel worse after eating.

I feel best if I have a large meat meal for breakfast including a big

bunch of chocolate at the end and than don't eat for eight hours or

even the rest of the day. Of course, everything tells me that's not

healthy for my body and I agree. But I don't seem to find any answer

to allow me to eat normally. I'm now eating a low carb menu than

breaking down and consuming chocolate or caffeine when I can't

function any longer. And the low carb does make me lose weight (when

I don't supplement with chocolate too often), so much so that

everyone tells me I'm too thin. (I was 70pounds overweight before I

started unraveling all my health problems, now I'm 5'3 " and between

105 and 110pds). I did seem to have somewhat less severe symptoms

the ten days I did the low carb eating with no " cheating, " (and I

lost weight very quickly despite eating tons of fatty food), but it

was very difficult and my symptoms never left me. And the first few

days my symptoms got very much worse. It's such a puzzle to me.

>

> Also, I never really can be sure of what is helping and what is

not, because even before I started this experimentation I've had

unexplainable " bad " and " good " periods with the " blood sugar " (or

whatever) problems. I've had this problem many years in differing

levels of severity, and sometimes out of the blue it practically goes

away, I lose weight, and I eat pretty normally. Then, out of the

blue, like a switch has been thrown, I start having terrible problems

again, I go crazy with food, and nothing can stop it. I have

Hashimoto's disease, so I wonder if maybe the bad periods are when it

flares up. As I get older, the bad periods get longer and closer

together. This is all one reason why I wonder if thyroid meds may

solve the problem, or at least make it manageable.

>

> My doctor has been very cautious about pushing too much thyroid

meds because he's afriad of the adrenals being too stressed. We tried

using licorice for adrenal support, but I had a bad reaction to it

(extreme water retention) and I had to stop. I do have some of the

symptoms of adrenal fatigue and have read Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st

Century Stress Syndrome by . I follow the recommendations

and they have helped a lot. Adding extra salt to my diet seemed to

help, and I feel much better now than I did several months ago. I

meditate, try to lie down throughout the day, have eliminated as much

stress as possible, exercise (run and weight lift, alternately,

daily), and take supplements. But I still have the " eating " problem.

>

> However, the 5 mg of hydrocortisone

have worked magic. I take it every 4 hours. Have I improved? Yes,

over the last 3 weeks I do not feel i " need " the next dose, tho I do

take it. For a while you could set a clock by the return of hypo-

adrenal symptoms. In my case it was over-reactivity to small

stresses. Post Armour my BP tests also changed. Instead of rising

upon standing as it did pre-Armour, it has dropped or stayed very

low. But, for the last 2 days my BP has risen when standing, so I

think I am getting healthier.

>

> Does the hydrocortisone take over for your adrenals? My doctor says

he wants to try supplements before going to meds. Did you try any, or

did you go straight to the hydrocortisone because you crashed on the

tyroid meds? I push my doctor somewhat to up my thyroid meds to get

rid of this eating problem, but of course I don't want to crash

either. We haven't done any testing for adrenal problems yet, but

he's talking about a 24hour cortisol test, I think, using saliva.

>

> It has not been a completely smooth

road. My body is worn out enough that if there are additional

stresses....like the DPW using a burr-chipper on all our privacy

shrubs.......I do crash that day and the next....feel stressed,

irritable and exhausted when I wake in the morning.

>

> Several months ago I had this problem too. Any stress, even

something relatively minor, would make me weak, exhausted and totally

overwhelmed. I don't feel so fragile right now though. I've been

upping my thyroid med and following many of the suggestions in the

Adrenal Fatigue book (except for eliminating coffee and chocolate).

>

> I had that at times and attributed

it to some insulin thing. However, when I dropped carbs it got WORSE!

I went way past any adjustment time needed to get into lipolysis. I

had the ketone strips to test too. I felt lousy during a lypolytic

state.

>

> When I dropped carbs the first few days I was so weak I could

barely function. It got better, but never great. I always had the

symptoms after I ate (weakness OR depression OR very strong

cravings). I did only go ten days following the diet exactly. But I

did use caffeine too, which my diet didn't forbid. So maybe that

would've made a difference. I just can't function, though, without

it. If I could live with no family, no stress, and no obligations, I

could do it, but of course that's impossible. I have two kids, 5 and

9, and my oldest has a lot of needs, including being in a " gifted "

program at school but having " learning disabilities. " I spend a lot

of time on him.

>

>

> As it turned out, the plan I

had followed for insulin resistance ALSO helped to feed the adrenals.

After eating her way for 7 months straight, I hardly ever had an

episode...however, I gained weight and so quit that!

>

> This is interesting to me, because I lost weight, at least in the

beginning, almost too fast. I lost a pound every day for six days and

kept it off, and I really didn't need to lose any. People started

telling me I looked bad. When I started bingeing on chocolate I

gained some back, but when I adhere to the diet without chocolate

(using caffeine to keep going) I lose weight again. And I eat plenty

of calories and probably too much fat. But Dr Rind's site did say

that animal fat is beneficial to the adrenals, and I have been

improving while eating salt and meat. But then again, I've also been

upping my thyroid meds at the same time. So what causes what? Very

confusing.

>

> One of the problems with all these

exocrime glands of ours is that our symptoms can be a mishmash of

overlap from several dysfunctions at once. I tried to sort out

thyroid vs adrenal. Being almost 47 I decided i am probably in need

of progesterone and do apply a cream.

>

> I agree. It is all so hard to figure out. The first health issue I

unraveled was discovering that I react to artificial colors, flavors

and preservatives. I'm on the Feingold diet for that. Then I

discovered I have a milk allergy. That was causing major problems.

Then I discovered the thyroid problem. The thyroid meds have helped a

lot. Now I'm wondering about the adrenals. I've had so many symptoms

caused by so many things, it's very hard. I wonder, though, if it was

all started by my thyroid deficiency. Looking back I think I

definitely had thyroid problems as a child, as did my mom. My son

(9yrs old) has just tested positive for Hashimoto's and has a high

TSH. I'm hoping catching this early will save him a lot of grief.

And I'm 38, so I don't look forward to adding perimenopause problems

to the mix, whenever that begins.

>

>

>

> I have ruled out insulin

resistance at this point. i just do not have that set of symptoms.

Did i experience hypoglycemia? yes, i think so, but related to

adrenals and thyroid.

>

> This is what I wonder. Does what I have look like insulin

resistance but is really caused by thyroid and adrenal problems?

>

> Go to the files area for this

group. There are some articles on adrenal/thyroid stuff. It's a real

eye opener. Suddenly one can make sense of all these abnormalities.

I'll try to find and post the 2 lists/charts i had found.

>

> Thanks for the info! I read everything. My problem is nothing lists

my eating problem exactly, and thus far nothing has solved it. Maybe

I just need to keep treating the thyroid and start working on the

adrenals and wait. My doctor wants to start supplements for the

adrenals after I've transitioned to Armour (I was on gradually

increasing doses of T3 and decided to try Armour). I just feel really

uncomfortable because I feel like using caffeine and/or chocolate is

so destructive for my body, but I can't function unless I do. I'm

afraid I'll really mess myself up more, but right now I have no

alternatives. I guess I'll just keep searching and experimenting. I

have been getting better, so that is good.

>

> I live in the Wash DC area, and I notice Dr Rind's office is in DC.

Anyone use him, or have an opinion on whether a visit with him would

be worthwhile? I like my doctor, but he's definitely not an expert on

thyroid or adrenal issues.

>

> Thanks!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I suffered from sever hypoglycemia when I was about 12-16.

>

>Reply-To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>To: NaturalThyroidHormones

>Subject: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

>Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 17:48:26 -0000

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Roxanne,

Thanks again, all good info to hear. I like hearing the info about

your husband being cured of his need for caffeine once his adrenal

problem was taken care of. I can hardly imagine a day when I'll be

able to function without stimulants, but it is encouraging to think

of it. I often feel guilty because I think sometimes it's just a

willpower issue. But I have lots and lots of willpower about many

things. The more I unravel this, the more I see I have a physical

need for the stimulants and I won't be able to change that until I

figure this all out.

Yes, it is nice to have the weight loss. I'm sorry you have such

problems! I did too all my life until I figured out the food allergy

thing. I've been overweight almost every time in my life since I hit

puberty at age ten and it's really nice, finally, to have a normal

size body. But truthfully, I'd gladly gain twenty pounds if I could

feel healthy.

I will ask my doctor about the hydrocortisone when I go back in

August. I should be stablized on my Armour dose, and we were going to

deal with the adrenals next.

Thanks!

> Hi ,

>

> I do think it is quite possible that you have adrenal fatigue.

>

> Looking back at myself and my husband...and my mother, come to

think of it....the symptoms are erratic but with a pattern of getting

worse over time. You cannot expect to match the list of symptoms.

However, if you can find that your problems, life style and history

fit the picture, I think you have to consider it. Remember that

thyroid dysfunction in itself creates a huge amount of

stress....depleting the adrenals every waking and sleeping moment. I

think they have to be considered hand and hand unless proven

otherwise.

>

> It is possible that your eating reaction is related to your

adrenals. No, your symptoms are not specifically listed, but

generalizations are....intolerance to carbs, etc.

>

> Let me give you a couple examples to ponder: My husband was an

absolute ADDICT to caffeine. Deprive him and you better fear for your

life. As I said, he crashed from adrenal exhaustion, in the worst

way. I had to scrape him up off the floor almost. He was too weak to

move. Once he started the hydrocortisone he lost his need for

caffeine...just like that. I was amazed. I had thought the caffeine

addiction was an actual caffeine addiction. it was a physiological

addiction used to supplement where the adrenals had no more to give.

Cold turkey, no caffeine, no headaches, no moodiness. It's all so

clear to me now.

>

> Example 2: my mom lost her mother to cancer, then she was diagnosed

with uterine cancer, then their house burned down, then a metastasis

showed up, she had cancer treatment, several lawsuits came up with

their rebuilding their house.....then she started to get so weak she

could barely move. Her typical pattern everyday was to wake up tired,

eat breakfast and then get terribly weak and go lie down for a few

hours. The drs did every test in the book and ended up giving her

Wellbutrin, of course, because it must be all in her mind. Some how

she ended up going to an endo who was doing research. Though all her

adrenal function tests were within normal range, he decided to give

her a test run of prednisone. Guess what? She felt better. So he then

put her on a short course of Florinef at a low dose. Her symptoms

went away. I recall also that she was having a terrible time with

abdominal discomfort. I don't know that her patterns were related

well to eating or not eating. She still ate, but her appetite was way

down. She kept thinking it was either this or that that made her

painful or weak. It seemed to change every day. It was a bit

confusing. Turns out it was just an adrenal problem...not

's...just severe fatigue.

>

>

> By the way, I am jealous of your easy weight loss on low carbs! If

I had continued to loose weight I would have stuck with it though

feeling miserable. I am 5'9 " with a farm-girl build and have probably

20 pounds of blubber mostly around my middle. I don't mind keeping 10

of it for the production of estrogen later....but these other 10

pounds really bother me. They seem to be all packed together. I have

a 35 " inseam...grasshopper legs....which leaves very little body to

hold all this blubber. I'm suspicious that all the adrenal spiking

with its fatigue caused fat to be laid down around the middle axis.

That is what I have read. I hate it!

>

> My opinion is that it cannot hurt to try a round of hydrocortisone

and see how you feel. It's the best test. After all, docs will hand

out mega doses of pred for other illnesses without much

thought....which is wrong. The amount of hydrocortisone is a

physiological dose. My opinion: no harm done with a short trial.

>

> Even if you are having allergies to some foods....that could be

related to your thyroid or ( potential) adrenal issues. It can be a

whole package deal.

>

> Deficiencies of digestive enzymes can also cause eating issues.

This can also be related to low thyroid, or not.

>

> The all day saliva tests are good, but do need educated

interpretation. As with the thyroid levels, we are all better or

worse only within or out of our OWN range.

>

> Please let us know what you will do. Your experience can help

others. :-)

>

> Best,

> Roxanna

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I suffered from sever hypoglycemia when I was about 12-16.

I had it in my twenties until I discoved Dr. Carlton Fredricks Low

Blood Sugar and You and followwed that diet - got it under

control...high pro/fats, low carb, no refined carbs...my adrenals

were also shot in my twenties.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Some of you will remember that I saw a pharmacist for bio-identical hormones.

(He also told me I have adrenal dysfunction & told me to take siberian

ginseng and phosphatidylserine complex.) He also recommended yoga and a book to

read. The book is " The Carbohydrate Addict's Healthy Heart Program: Break Your

Carbo-Insulin Connection to Heart Disease " . I haven't read too far yet but what

you said about weight reminded me of the book. All three authors have lost

weight and kept it down. The book is 424 pages including the index and it's

only $6.99!

I haven't learned enough to start the diet yet. But I'm still reading!

in Va.

Hi ,

I am interested to know more about your food allergies and weight issues.

Details, Please!

I was a chubby child, thinned down totally around 13, then for the rest of my

life I have bounced up and down 10-20 pounds over what I would like to be. I

have been ugly-thin too with severe diet and exercise...several times. Around

the age of 38 none of my " tricks " to drop weight worked anymore like they had.

This was also the time that I questioned my thyroid function with hair loss,

weight gain, decrease ability to loose, foggy brain, dryer skin, coldness,

moodiness, pre-period-spotting, etc. Their " labs " were " normal " ...whatever they

tested. You know...I bet they still have those on file. I would LOVE to know

what the results were.

Anyway, I have heard about food allergies preventing fat loss. I just have

never known anyone who had this and successfully worked with it. I would love to

know more.

It is not your lack of willpower with the stimulants. Ease up on yourself

about that...those thought are stressful!. They are an aid for your broken

physiology right now. Once you address that you will welcome decaff.

I am now wondering if cigarettes may fall in the same category.

[Guest guest]

Thanks , I will keep that in mind....right now I am going to focus on

straightening out my glands and their productions. Dieting is an additional

stress I don't need right now. I do try to stay fairly low on carbs anyway, but

within reason. I'm not going to do stressful deprivation right now. I just need

to finally be good to my body.

I've seen so many positive changes over the last few weeks that I am quite

hopeful to regain the freedom I once had. But this time I will NOT be so

horridly demanding of myself so as not to end up where I am today again.

:-)

Roxanna

Roxanna V. Knight-Plouff, D.V.M.

W Plouff

North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc

northstargsdr@...

www.northstargsdr.org

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi,

Some of you will remember that I saw a pharmacist for bio-identical hormones.

(He also told me I have adrenal dysfunction & told me to take siberian

ginseng and phosphatidylserine complex.) He also recommended yoga and a book

to read. The book is " The Carbohydrate Addict's Healthy Heart Program: Break

Your Carbo-Insulin Connection to Heart Disease " . I haven't read too far yet but

what you said about weight reminded me of the book. All three authors have lost

weight and kept it down. The book is 424 pages including the index and it's

only $6.99!

I haven't learned enough to start the diet yet. But I'm still reading!

in Va.

Hi ,

I am interested to know more about your food allergies and weight issues.

Details, Please!

I was a chubby child, thinned down totally around 13, then for the rest of

my life I have bounced up and down 10-20 pounds over what I would like to be. I

have been ugly-thin too with severe diet and exercise...several times. Around

the age of 38 none of my " tricks " to drop weight worked anymore like they had.

This was also the time that I questioned my thyroid function with hair loss,

weight gain, decrease ability to loose, foggy brain, dryer skin, coldness,

moodiness, pre-period-spotting, etc. Their " labs " were " normal " ...whatever they

tested. You know...I bet they still have those on file. I would LOVE to know

what the results were.

Anyway, I have heard about food allergies preventing fat loss. I just have

never known anyone who had this and successfully worked with it. I would love to

know more.

It is not your lack of willpower with the stimulants. Ease up on yourself

about that...those thought are stressful!. They are an aid for your broken

physiology right now. Once you address that you will welcome decaff.

I am now wondering if cigarettes may fall in the same category.

[Guest guest]

Hi, ,

That's interesting about your food allergies! When you say lecithin, do you mean

soy lecithin? The lecithin in eggs or both?

Do you mean your food allergies change because you become allergic to new

things? Does that mean the things that you were allergic to,

if you don't eat it long enough, you're not allergic any more? I'd LOVE to clear

up my postnasal drip!

I try to eat a raw salad (big one) daily) because I learned from the Hallelujah

diet how healthy it is with the enzymes etc.

The book I mentioned is all about controlling insulin to prevent heart disease.

In doing so, following the diet, you also lose weight. I'm still reading the

book.

Thanks for your advice! It's certainly something to keep in mind!

in Va.

-----

Hi ,

I guess I'll jump in here since this is what I've had my food allergies tested

recently.

Since starting armour thyroid a couple of months ago I lost 10 pounds and

then I stopped losing for two weeks. I was eating healthy and couldn't figure

out why I didn't lose at least 1 pound in two weeks. Then, I got my results

last Wednesday and I found out why. I am allergic to yogurt, aspartame,

lecithin, and soy to name a few. About two, now closer to three weeks ago I

began eating a low fat yogurt for my afternoon snack. I also discovered the

Slim Fast low carb bars, and since I love chocolate this seemed to be an answer

to having my " cake " and eating it, too. Well, guess what? The Slim fast bars

are loaded with soy, lecithin and aspartame and the yogurt has aspartame in it,

too! I gave those up, and, voila, I have lost 4 pounds!

I have know for years I do better on protein than on carbs, but I could always

have some carbs. My problem is I'm a picky eater and don't like many things --

except junk food, of course! So, I'm having trouble following the diet that the

doc wants me to follow. He knows that. So, he said to eat whats on my good

list and avoid what's on my moderate to bad list and it's working.

About 20 years ago, I went on allergy shots and they weren't working. So, I

insisted on having my food allergies run. Nothing tested in the real high

range, but some things were in the moderate range and my doctor told me that

even give up those foods, it wouldn't make a difference. Well, I gave them up

anyway and that cleared up my sinus'! I stayed on the shots for a year or two

but discovered that if I just didn't eat the foods I was allergic to I was

better than if I didn't. I gave up the shots.

Of course my food allergies have changed and this will be an ongoing thing.

If I follow the plan I'll have more energy, too. As a matter of fact, I already

do. And there are several foods I can eat that have carbs in them, but I don't

react to, so that's good, too.

I must add that even if you're on a low carb diet, you still may not lose

weight because there may be some things in the food that you're allergic to.

The best thing to do is not eat prepared and packaged food, but make your own

from scratch. I, for one, hate to cook! But, if I want to get better and feel

better, that's what I have to do. I want to live to see my grandchildren grow

up!

So, that's my experience and I hope it helps.

B.

wrote:

Hi,

Some of you will remember that I saw a pharmacist for bio-identical hormones.

(He also told me I have adrenal dysfunction & told me to take siberian

ginseng and phosphatidylserine complex.) He also recommended yoga and a book

to read. The book is " The Carbohydrate Addict's Healthy Heart Program: Break

Your Carbo-Insulin Connection to Heart Disease " . I haven't read too far yet but

what you said about weight reminded me of the book. All three authors have lost

weight and kept it down. The book is 424 pages including the index and it's

only $6.99!

I haven't learned enough to start the diet yet. But I'm still reading!

in Va.

Hi ,

I am interested to know more about your food allergies and weight issues.

Details, Please!

I was a chubby child, thinned down totally around 13, then for the rest of

my life I have bounced up and down 10-20 pounds over what I would like to be. I

have been ugly-thin too with severe diet and exercise...several times. Around

the age of 38 none of my " tricks " to drop weight worked anymore like they had.

This was also the time that I questioned my thyroid function with hair loss,

weight gain, decrease ability to loose, foggy brain, dryer skin, coldness,

moodiness, pre-period-spotting, etc. Their " labs " were " normal " ...whatever they

tested. You know...I bet they still have those on file. I would LOVE to know

what the results were.

Anyway, I have heard about food allergies preventing fat loss. I just have

never known anyone who had this and successfully worked with it. I would love to

know more.

It is not your lack of willpower with the stimulants. Ease up on yourself

about that...those thought are stressful!. They are an aid for your broken

physiology right now. Once you address that you will welcome decaff.

I am now wondering if cigarettes may fall in the same category.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Roxanna,

This diet does not deprive you. You can eat alot but it's all about when you eat

certain foods. Very interesting. YOu try to prevent insulin release. I'll be

interested to see how well it works whenever I get started after I finish the

book.

Best to you!

in Va.

Thanks , I will keep that in mind....right now I am going to focus on

straightening out my glands and their productions. Dieting is an additional

stress I don't need right now. I do try to stay fairly low on carbs anyway, but

within reason. I'm not going to do stressful deprivation right now. I just need

to finally be good to my body.

I've seen so many positive changes over the last few weeks that I am quite

hopeful to regain the freedom I once had. But this time I will NOT be so

horridly demanding of myself so as not to end up where I am today again.

:-)

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

,

I'd be interested to hear it in a nutshell, if you can, once you have finished

the book. :-)

Roxanna

Roxanna V. Knight-Plouff, D.V.M.

W Plouff

North Star German Shepherd Dog Rescue Inc

northstargsdr@...

www.northstargsdr.org

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi, Roxanna,

This diet does not deprive you. You can eat alot but it's all about when you

eat certain foods. Very interesting. YOu try to prevent insulin release. I'll

be interested to see how well it works whenever I get started after I finish the

book.

Best to you!

in Va.

Thanks , I will keep that in mind....right now I am going to focus on

straightening out my glands and their productions. Dieting is an additional

stress I don't need right now. I do try to stay fairly low on carbs anyway, but

within reason. I'm not going to do stressful deprivation right now. I just need

to finally be good to my body.

I've seen so many positive changes over the last few weeks that I am quite

hopeful to regain the freedom I once had. But this time I will NOT be so

horridly demanding of myself so as not to end up where I am today again.

:-)

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

Hi, Roxanna,

I'm only half way through! LOL You might have to remind me later too!

I'm so forgetful.

in Va.

,

I'd be interested to hear it in a nutshell, if you can, once you have finished

the book. :-)

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

HI, ,

So now I've forgotten whether you went to an allergist or an alternative doctor

for this testing. I eat the same things every day. (I have heard about rotating

and knew I was playing with danger. LOL) But I have organic eggs for breakfast,

prunes, yogurt with strawberries and almonds. Then later I have a huge salad

with romaine or spring mix lettuces including spinach, tomatoes, onions,

almonds, and Newman dressing. I don't get tired of these foods. You'd

think I would. But if I suddenly become allergic to these, I'd be extremely

disappointed! But since 1995 (around the time of fibro diagnosis and beginning

perimenopause) I've had extremely annoying postnasal drip CONTINUOUSLY! I do

notice that dairy foods do seem to add to it. However, stopping dairy doesn't

get rid of it completely.

I think I need to have this testing done. Was a special lab used?

Thanks for your info!!! I'm so glad you are feeling better. You'll have to make

your own pizzas, huh?

in Va.

PS Evidentally you're just allergic to the soy lecithin.

----- \

My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a chart

with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first column is

green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's a line then

another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That means I

shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and those

things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column. I am

allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in them!

20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was not

able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to follow a

rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That way you

don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really high for

being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and never eat it! Go

figure.

So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it for a

very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll probably

have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating what you're

allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins then re-introduce

them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile. I just know my sinus'

are clearing.

We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last Saturday

after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years. Today is

Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to garlic, basil

and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized what it did to me

since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined. Now that my hypo is

getting under control I need to deal with the allergies and I know I'll feel

terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and I'll feel bad for a few

days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love pizza (and most Italian food)!

Thanks for your input, as always.

B.

[Guest guest]

I always ate bananas occasionally, but when i got thyroid disease, suddenly

I was going into something near to anaphylaxis over them. Watermelon too,

and I rarely ever ate them. It makes me so angry. All these foods that

would ordinarily be good for us are poison for us.

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

> Hi ,

>

> My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a

chart with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first

column is green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's

a line then another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That

means I shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and

those things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column.

I am allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in

them!

>

> 20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was

not able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to

follow a rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That

way you don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really

high for being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and

never eat it! Go figure.

>

> So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it

for a very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll

probably have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating

what you're allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins

then re-introduce them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile.

I just know my sinus' are clearing.

>

> We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last

Saturday after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years.

Today is Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to

garlic, basil and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized

what it did to me since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined.

Now that my hypo is getting under control I need to deal with the allergies

and I know I'll feel terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and

I'll feel bad for a few days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love

pizza (and most Italian food)!

>

> Thanks for your input, as always.

>

> B.

>

> wrote:

[Guest guest]

Hi Tigger,

I'm in Fort Lauderdale, FL and my doc is in Boca Raton, FL. He does phone

consults, too but I don't know if there is a required visit. Wouldn't hurt to

call him - Dr. Woliner (he is an MD). I don't know if we're allowed to

put phone numbers on here, but if you're interested I can email you personally

with his phone number.

Tigger wrote:

Where are you? Where is your doc? I so desperately need someone to work with me.

Tigger

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi ,

My doc is an Holistic doctor - MD and trained nutritionist. The the blood

drawn for the food allergy testing is done at his office, but I go to a lab for

all the other blood tests. I suffer from post-nasal drip most of the time, but

pressure between my eyes caused by sinus pressure and sometimes over one of my

eyes. Since I sit at a computer all day, this can be very annoying, to say the

least. But, food allergies don't have to manifest themselves in the sinus', but

they can cause tiredness, weight gain and aches and pains, too. Sounds like

thyroid problems, doesn't it? Yikes! I also have a limited diet (read picky!)

and that has been my downfall. My doc said he's seen worse, but it couldn't

hurt eliminating these foods to help the armour along (and supplements, too). I

just want to be well armed in this fight to regain my health so I am willing to

go this route.

I will tell you, I'm at the end of my first week of not eating the foods that

showed reactions, and I can tell you I'm in a withdrawal and it ain't pretty!

My head consantly hurts and I'm really tired again. This is to be expected and

will pass and I should feel pretty good. The hard part is sticking with it and

not going for comfort food - all of which I have to avoid! But, I know it will

be worth it because I've done it before.

This not may be for everybody, but it's something I chose to do because I'm

sick and tired of being sick and tired.

The tests run about $1800 so I'm glad my insurance covered them! Not all

insurances do, so that may be a factor.

I would say that you have other issues besides dairy and the only way you can

find out, short of having the tests, would be to fast for four days and then

introduce one food at a time until you find the offending foods. That's how it

used to be done. I prefer the blood tests!

Hope this helps some.

B>

wrote:

HI, ,

So now I've forgotten whether you went to an allergist or an alternative

doctor for this testing. I eat the same things every day. (I have heard about

rotating and knew I was playing with danger. LOL) But I have organic eggs for

breakfast, prunes, yogurt with strawberries and almonds. Then later I have a

huge salad with romaine or spring mix lettuces including spinach, tomatoes,

onions, almonds, and Newman dressing. I don't get tired of these foods.

You'd think I would. But if I suddenly become allergic to these, I'd be

extremely disappointed! But since 1995 (around the time of fibro diagnosis and

beginning perimenopause) I've had extremely annoying postnasal drip

CONTINUOUSLY! I do notice that dairy foods do seem to add to it. However,

stopping dairy doesn't get rid of it completely.

I think I need to have this testing done. Was a special lab used?

Thanks for your info!!! I'm so glad you are feeling better. You'll have to

make your own pizzas, huh?

in Va.

PS Evidentally you're just allergic to the soy lecithin.

----- \

My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a chart

with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first column is

green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's a line then

another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That means I

shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and those

things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column. I am

allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in them!

20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was not

able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to follow a

rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That way you

don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really high for

being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and never eat it! Go

figure.

So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it for

a very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll probably

have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating what you're

allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins then re-introduce

them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile. I just know my sinus'

are clearing.

We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last

Saturday after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years. Today is

Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to garlic, basil

and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized what it did to me

since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined. Now that my hypo is

getting under control I need to deal with the allergies and I know I'll feel

terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and I'll feel bad for a few

days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love pizza (and most Italian food)!

Thanks for your input, as always.

B.

[Guest guest]

you can put names and numbers on here. He is pretty well known. What do you like

about him? My surrogate has Hashi and her DR keeps her on 50 mg of synthroid

only. Does he take insurance? She lives in Coral Springs so not far. Spill all

the beans.

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi ,

My doc is an Holistic doctor - MD and trained nutritionist. The the blood

drawn for the food allergy testing is done at his office, but I go to a lab for

all the other blood tests. I suffer from post-nasal drip most of the time, but

pressure between my eyes caused by sinus pressure and sometimes over one of my

eyes. Since I sit at a computer all day, this can be very annoying, to say the

least. But, food allergies don't have to manifest themselves in the sinus', but

they can cause tiredness, weight gain and aches and pains, too. Sounds like

thyroid problems, doesn't it? Yikes! I also have a limited diet (read picky!)

and that has been my downfall. My doc said he's seen worse, but it couldn't

hurt eliminating these foods to help the armour along (and supplements, too). I

just want to be well armed in this fight to regain my health so I am willing to

go this route.

I will tell you, I'm at the end of my first week of not eating the foods

that showed reactions, and I can tell you I'm in a withdrawal and it ain't

pretty! My head consantly hurts and I'm really tired again. This is to be

expected and will pass and I should feel pretty good. The hard part is sticking

with it and not going for comfort food - all of which I have to avoid! But, I

know it will be worth it because I've done it before.

This not may be for everybody, but it's something I chose to do because I'm

sick and tired of being sick and tired.

The tests run about $1800 so I'm glad my insurance covered them! Not all

insurances do, so that may be a factor.

I would say that you have other issues besides dairy and the only way you

can find out, short of having the tests, would be to fast for four days and then

introduce one food at a time until you find the offending foods. That's how it

used to be done. I prefer the blood tests!

Hope this helps some.

B>

wrote:

HI, ,

So now I've forgotten whether you went to an allergist or an alternative

doctor for this testing. I eat the same things every day. (I have heard about

rotating and knew I was playing with danger. LOL) But I have organic eggs for

breakfast, prunes, yogurt with strawberries and almonds. Then later I have a

huge salad with romaine or spring mix lettuces including spinach, tomatoes,

onions, almonds, and Newman dressing. I don't get tired of these foods.

You'd think I would. But if I suddenly become allergic to these, I'd be

extremely disappointed! But since 1995 (around the time of fibro diagnosis and

beginning perimenopause) I've had extremely annoying postnasal drip

CONTINUOUSLY! I do notice that dairy foods do seem to add to it. However,

stopping dairy doesn't get rid of it completely.

I think I need to have this testing done. Was a special lab used?

Thanks for your info!!! I'm so glad you are feeling better. You'll have to

make your own pizzas, huh?

in Va.

PS Evidentally you're just allergic to the soy lecithin.

----- \

My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a

chart with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first

column is green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's a

line then another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That means

I shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and those

things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column. I am

allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in them!

20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was

not able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to follow

a rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That way you

don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really high for

being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and never eat it! Go

figure.

So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it

for a very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll

probably have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating what

you're allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins then

re-introduce them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile. I just

know my sinus' are clearing.

We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last

Saturday after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years. Today is

Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to garlic, basil

and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized what it did to me

since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined. Now that my hypo is

getting under control I need to deal with the allergies and I know I'll feel

terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and I'll feel bad for a few

days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love pizza (and most Italian food)!

Thanks for your input, as always.

B.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, Florida is a long way from Rhode Island. <sigh>

This state is too small. It's hard to find Drs. who are willing to work with

symptoms and not numbers... whether they're thyroid numbers or scale numbers.

Felling very defeated right now. Hope I bounce back soon because when I do, I

usually bounce back fighting.

Hugs,

Tigger

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi ,

My doc is an Holistic doctor - MD and trained nutritionist. The the blood

drawn for the food allergy testing is done at his office, but I go to a lab for

all the other blood tests. I suffer from post-nasal drip most of the time, but

pressure between my eyes caused by sinus pressure and sometimes over one of my

eyes. Since I sit at a computer all day, this can be very annoying, to say the

least. But, food allergies don't have to manifest themselves in the sinus', but

they can cause tiredness, weight gain and aches and pains, too. Sounds like

thyroid problems, doesn't it? Yikes! I also have a limited diet (read picky!)

and that has been my downfall. My doc said he's seen worse, but it couldn't

hurt eliminating these foods to help the armour along (and supplements, too). I

just want to be well armed in this fight to regain my health so I am willing to

go this route.

I will tell you, I'm at the end of my first week of not eating the foods

that showed reactions, and I can tell you I'm in a withdrawal and it ain't

pretty! My head consantly hurts and I'm really tired again. This is to be

expected and will pass and I should feel pretty good. The hard part is sticking

with it and not going for comfort food - all of which I have to avoid! But, I

know it will be worth it because I've done it before.

This not may be for everybody, but it's something I chose to do because I'm

sick and tired of being sick and tired.

The tests run about $1800 so I'm glad my insurance covered them! Not all

insurances do, so that may be a factor.

I would say that you have other issues besides dairy and the only way you

can find out, short of having the tests, would be to fast for four days and then

introduce one food at a time until you find the offending foods. That's how it

used to be done. I prefer the blood tests!

Hope this helps some.

B>

wrote:

HI, ,

So now I've forgotten whether you went to an allergist or an alternative

doctor for this testing. I eat the same things every day. (I have heard about

rotating and knew I was playing with danger. LOL) But I have organic eggs for

breakfast, prunes, yogurt with strawberries and almonds. Then later I have a

huge salad with romaine or spring mix lettuces including spinach, tomatoes,

onions, almonds, and Newman dressing. I don't get tired of these foods.

You'd think I would. But if I suddenly become allergic to these, I'd be

extremely disappointed! But since 1995 (around the time of fibro diagnosis and

beginning perimenopause) I've had extremely annoying postnasal drip

CONTINUOUSLY! I do notice that dairy foods do seem to add to it. However,

stopping dairy doesn't get rid of it completely.

I think I need to have this testing done. Was a special lab used?

Thanks for your info!!! I'm so glad you are feeling better. You'll have to

make your own pizzas, huh?

in Va.

PS Evidentally you're just allergic to the soy lecithin.

----- \

My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a

chart with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first

column is green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's a

line then another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That means

I shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and those

things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column. I am

allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in them!

20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was

not able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to follow

a rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That way you

don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really high for

being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and never eat it! Go

figure.

So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it

for a very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll

probably have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating what

you're allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins then

re-introduce them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile. I just

know my sinus' are clearing.

We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last

Saturday after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years. Today is

Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to garlic, basil

and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized what it did to me

since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined. Now that my hypo is

getting under control I need to deal with the allergies and I know I'll feel

terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and I'll feel bad for a few

days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love pizza (and most Italian food)!

Thanks for your input, as always.

B.

[Guest guest]

OK, OK! I'll spill it!

His number is and his practice is actually called Holistic Family

Medicine. He's on Glades and St. s.

He takes insurance and we have a good PPO through the Postal Worker's Union.

However, I have to pay up front and get reimbursed from my carrier because the

doc is not on our provider list. The insurance pays 70% but my deductable was

$500 instead of $250. After I set up an appointment I received a huge

questionaire in the mail that I filled out and sent back to them so they had a

profile on me before I even walked in the door. The first visit is $375 and

that is for 1 whole hour uninterrupted. (I've never spent more than 10 minutes

with a doc and then he was seeing other patients while I was there>) He gives

you a physical and listens to what you have to say. He tells you what he has in

mind for you and will order blood tests -- at least he did for me. Every visit

after that is for a half hour uninterrupted and costs $150. I began on April

7th and I see him every 4 to six weeks. I just got my last test done (echo

stress test - results, normal!) so I'm anxious to find out

what we'll talk about on September 1st. He kept me on Synthroid at first but

upped the dosage gradually until we had some blood test results, and when I saw

him the second time he switched me to Armour - 2 grains. I've been on that

since sometime in May and he has told me to adjust it up a half pill (1/4 grain)

and then maybe 1/2 more.

He put me on DHEA immediately also for adrenals. Told me if I could stand 50 mg

to go ahead and take it, but if need be take 25 mg. Of course I just started

with the food allergy thing so that will take another week or two for me to feel

better if I'm going to.

I'm terrible about telling doctors anything because I come from parents who

never complain even when they're in pain. They just keep going at 85 and 83 and

are amazing. So, I tend to keep things to myself. So, when Dr. Woliner says,

" How do you feel? " , I say I'm doing good. That's not entirely the truth and I

have to learn to lay it all out because I'm sure he'll listen and help me out.

So, that's my fault, not his.

By the way, he's young and single! I'm a grandmother, so all I want to do is

mother him, but some of you younger ones might want to check him out!

Anyway, he is caring, but doesn't move quickly. He lets your body get used to

whatever he puts you on or whatever you have to stop taking and then when he

sees how you feel, he moves on.

I don't have much experience with doctors as I have always avoided them like the

plague and was blessed with relatively good health until about 5-7 years ago.

Suddenly, they're a big part of my life right now, and I'm just grateful to have

found Dr. Woliner and that I'm comfortable with him.

Oh, he also believes you are entitled to your file, so you get no argument from

him if you ask for it. He has discussed my test results with me and even showed

me the results, but of course I don't remember them. So, I have to remember to

get copies next visit so I can compare my numbers with some of yours. That

wouldn't bother him in the least.

I know I've rambled (had a long day at work and the electricity went off late

last night and the house got warm so I didn't sleep much), but these are some of

the reasons I like him.

One more thing -- he has so much compassion that he actually donates time to

travel to Israel and take care of people there. He was recently in Israel for a

week on a mission. Not bad for a young man!

Maybe he moves too slow for some of you, but I feel I'm in good hands. I am

feeling a little better overall, too. As you all know, it's a slow process. By

the way, it was my idea to run the food allergies and he went right along with

it. And you should see the beautiful presentation he gave me of the results.

It has grafts, explanations, suggesions, diet and resources. It's very well

done!

Hope this helps and I hope some of you have found your own " Dr. Woliner. "

B.

Jamy wrote:

you can put names and numbers on here. He is pretty well known. What do you like

about him? My surrogate has Hashi and her DR keeps her on 50 mg of synthroid

only. Does he take insurance? She lives in Coral Springs so not far. Spill all

the beans.

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi ,

My doc is an Holistic doctor - MD and trained nutritionist. The the blood

drawn for the food allergy testing is done at his office, but I go to a lab for

all the other blood tests. I suffer from post-nasal drip most of the time, but

pressure between my eyes caused by sinus pressure and sometimes over one of my

eyes. Since I sit at a computer all day, this can be very annoying, to say the

least. But, food allergies don't have to manifest themselves in the sinus', but

they can cause tiredness, weight gain and aches and pains, too. Sounds like

thyroid problems, doesn't it? Yikes! I also have a limited diet (read picky!)

and that has been my downfall. My doc said he's seen worse, but it couldn't

hurt eliminating these foods to help the armour along (and supplements, too). I

just want to be well armed in this fight to regain my health so I am willing to

go this route.

I will tell you, I'm at the end of my first week of not eating the foods

that showed reactions, and I can tell you I'm in a withdrawal and it ain't

pretty! My head consantly hurts and I'm really tired again. This is to be

expected and will pass and I should feel pretty good. The hard part is sticking

with it and not going for comfort food - all of which I have to avoid! But, I

know it will be worth it because I've done it before.

This not may be for everybody, but it's something I chose to do because I'm

sick and tired of being sick and tired.

The tests run about $1800 so I'm glad my insurance covered them! Not all

insurances do, so that may be a factor.

I would say that you have other issues besides dairy and the only way you

can find out, short of having the tests, would be to fast for four days and then

introduce one food at a time until you find the offending foods. That's how it

used to be done. I prefer the blood tests!

Hope this helps some.

B>

wrote:

HI, ,

So now I've forgotten whether you went to an allergist or an alternative

doctor for this testing. I eat the same things every day. (I have heard about

rotating and knew I was playing with danger. LOL) But I have organic eggs for

breakfast, prunes, yogurt with strawberries and almonds. Then later I have a

huge salad with romaine or spring mix lettuces including spinach, tomatoes,

onions, almonds, and Newman dressing. I don't get tired of these foods.

You'd think I would. But if I suddenly become allergic to these, I'd be

extremely disappointed! But since 1995 (around the time of fibro diagnosis and

beginning perimenopause) I've had extremely annoying postnasal drip

CONTINUOUSLY! I do notice that dairy foods do seem to add to it. However,

stopping dairy doesn't get rid of it completely.

I think I need to have this testing done. Was a special lab used?

Thanks for your info!!! I'm so glad you are feeling better. You'll have to

make your own pizzas, huh?

in Va.

PS Evidentally you're just allergic to the soy lecithin.

----- \

My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a

chart with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first

column is green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's a

line then another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That means

I shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and those

things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column. I am

allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in them!

20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was

not able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to follow

a rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That way you

don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really high for

being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and never eat it! Go

figure.

So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it

for a very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll

probably have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating what

you're allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins then

re-introduce them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile. I just

know my sinus' are clearing.

We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last

Saturday after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years. Today is

Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to garlic, basil

and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized what it did to me

since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined. Now that my hypo is

getting under control I need to deal with the allergies and I know I'll feel

terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and I'll feel bad for a few

days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love pizza (and most Italian food)!

Thanks for your input, as always.

B.

[Guest guest]

Thank you. I think the older we get when the female and male hormones also go

nuts along with the thyroid, we are harder to treat. would pay that in a

heartbeat, but I know my surrogate daughter wouldn't

Re: Re: Glucose or Adrenal Problems?

Hi ,

My doc is an Holistic doctor - MD and trained nutritionist. The the blood

drawn for the food allergy testing is done at his office, but I go to a lab for

all the other blood tests. I suffer from post-nasal drip most of the time, but

pressure between my eyes caused by sinus pressure and sometimes over one of my

eyes. Since I sit at a computer all day, this can be very annoying, to say the

least. But, food allergies don't have to manifest themselves in the sinus', but

they can cause tiredness, weight gain and aches and pains, too. Sounds like

thyroid problems, doesn't it? Yikes! I also have a limited diet (read picky!)

and that has been my downfall. My doc said he's seen worse, but it couldn't

hurt eliminating these foods to help the armour along (and supplements, too). I

just want to be well armed in this fight to regain my health so I am willing to

go this route.

I will tell you, I'm at the end of my first week of not eating the foods

that showed reactions, and I can tell you I'm in a withdrawal and it ain't

pretty! My head consantly hurts and I'm really tired again. This is to be

expected and will pass and I should feel pretty good. The hard part is sticking

with it and not going for comfort food - all of which I have to avoid! But, I

know it will be worth it because I've done it before.

This not may be for everybody, but it's something I chose to do because

I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

The tests run about $1800 so I'm glad my insurance covered them! Not all

insurances do, so that may be a factor.

I would say that you have other issues besides dairy and the only way you

can find out, short of having the tests, would be to fast for four days and then

introduce one food at a time until you find the offending foods. That's how it

used to be done. I prefer the blood tests!

Hope this helps some.

B>

wrote:

HI, ,

So now I've forgotten whether you went to an allergist or an alternative

doctor for this testing. I eat the same things every day. (I have heard about

rotating and knew I was playing with danger. LOL) But I have organic eggs for

breakfast, prunes, yogurt with strawberries and almonds. Then later I have a

huge salad with romaine or spring mix lettuces including spinach, tomatoes,

onions, almonds, and Newman dressing. I don't get tired of these foods.

You'd think I would. But if I suddenly become allergic to these, I'd be

extremely disappointed! But since 1995 (around the time of fibro diagnosis and

beginning perimenopause) I've had extremely annoying postnasal drip

CONTINUOUSLY! I do notice that dairy foods do seem to add to it. However,

stopping dairy doesn't get rid of it completely.

I think I need to have this testing done. Was a special lab used?

Thanks for your info!!! I'm so glad you are feeling better. You'll have

to make your own pizzas, huh?

in Va.

PS Evidentally you're just allergic to the soy lecithin.

----- \

My doc gave me this whole booklet with everything that was tested on a

chart with a bar going across. There are three columns per item. The first

column is green and that means the item is fine for me to consume. There's a

line then another section and the bar turns yellow on another item. That means

I shouldn't consume that item very often. The third column is red and those

things are no no's. So, soybean and lecithin are in the red column. I am

allowed to eat eggs and I wasn't even aware that eggs had lecithin in them!

20 years ago, apples were fine for me to eat and now they're not. I was

not able to eat bananas then, but now I am. I've read that it's best to follow

a rotation diet and not repeat eating anything in under 4 days. That way you

don't develope food allergies as easily. However, I tested really high for

being allergic to cottage cheese and I hate cottage cheese and never eat it! Go

figure.

So, yes, you can develop sensitivity to any food and if you don't eat it

for a very long time you can probably have that food once in awhile. I'll

probably have an apple in two or three weeks, but the idea of not eating what

you're allergic to for awhile is to cleanse your body of the toxins then

re-introduce them one at a time and then eat them only once in awhile. I just

know my sinus' are clearing.

We always get pizza on Saturday night and I just couldn't resist last

Saturday after feeling wonderful that day for the first time in years. Today is

Wednesday and I'm just beginning to feel better! I'm allergic to garlic, basil

and yeast and the stuff almost did me in. I never realized what it did to me

since I felt so lousy with my hypo and allergies combined. Now that my hypo is

getting under control I need to deal with the allergies and I know I'll feel

terrific soon. I'll probably have pizza sometimes and I'll feel bad for a few

days, but that's life and I'm stubborn and I love pizza (and most Italian food)!

Thanks for your input, as always.

B.