high fiber regression/constipation

February 7, 2004

Amy we are entering an area where there is no proven facts only

theory. As Dr. said to me " It may be a motor planning aspect,

but I can't help you with that. Why not see if we can help it with

what I suggest " And what he suggests I can add does work. It's

just been hard to keep Tanner drinking the same nectar day after day

after day -and three times a day. But if he doesn't -constipated

again. (Thank God For 's Milk of Magnesia!)

Here is an archive which may answer more. Unfortunately until this

(down the road) aspect which should be further explored is -we only

have theory. I highly recommend Dr. for anyone interested.

(and...for this we NEED a cure!!)

Here is an archive with all the information and his recommendation

for Tanner that is working:

From: " kiddietalk " <kiddietalk@...>

Date: Sun Nov 16, 2003 2:15 am

Subject: Re: constipation

Wow thanks for this comprehensive lesson about the gut!

I just wanted to add that in a nutshell -out of our couple of hour

appointment with pediatric gastroenterologist Lawrence MD from

Palm Beach Florida, we covered much of what you talked about.

I just want to clarify that Dr. did not recommend juice, and

that I can tell you that for Tanner juice did not work. Dr.

recommended the nectars -specifically papaya, pear, apricot etc.

> Here is a brief summery from the prescription he gave me:

>

> Diet: Nectars (fruit juices) Papaya, pear, apricot (if he can

> stand it -can mix with others but try plain nectar first)

> * prune juice -can be mixed with orange juice (since most kids

don't

> like it)

>

> exotic fruits- figs, dates, apricot, papaya (papaya underlined

> twice) (if he can stand it -like the nectars -these work wonders

he

> said)

>

> limit -banana, apple, rice, dairy

>

> Milk of Magnesia 2-3 tablespoons with glass of water any time he

> skips 1 day. Works 4-8 hours.

>

> Behavior Modification -10 minutes daily -no distractions. Use

> calendar stickers -every week reward for amount of BMs

> 2/ week something small

> 3-4 medium

> 5-7 large reward

About the brain play (or lack of)to this, I was talking to Sallie

Bernard who was talking to pediatric neurologist Xue Ming MD PhD

about this too common problem in our population of children for some

reason -who believes that with autistic (and apraxic) children

it 'may' be a brain signaling problem. I'm still in the school of

thought that we don't really know the brain enough to know all that

it's capable of doing or not doing. So I wouldn't disagree with the

theory that this has nothing to do with the brain -however I feel

more uncomfortable agreeing this has nothing to do with the brain

based on the

fact that autism and

apraxia are on the rise in this country as specific multifaceted

communication impairments -and both are neurologically based- I

would just say let's stay open in theory still.

About the diet alone theory, good points but that I don't agree

with. I have about a zillion friends who have kids who eat all

kinds of crap. To them meat and potatoes? Potato chips and beef

jerky. Fruit means fruit flavored Hawaiian Punch (just kidding but

you get the point) and...none of my friend's kids have problems with

constipation, especially constipation that is ongoing for years!

Just Tanner

who eats

what...healthy food and takes fish oil each day? So yes diet is

important -but it's not the main factor or we would be seeing

epidemics of constipation in the normal pediatric population as well.

(or more than 3%!)

" Constipation is the chief complaint in 3 percent of pediatric

outpatient

visits "

http://www.healthscout.com/news/402/515479/main.html

About magnesia -as I have above -big time agree and found this

works. We however only use this on days that we don't get enough

nectar into Tanner. Dr. has us give Tanner Milk of Magnesia

(3 tablespoons) any time Tanner " misses " a day. I do notice that

Tanner will miss a day if he doesn't drink enough papaya and pear

nectar the day before. So to the mom that brought up the papaya and

jell bowls from Dole -they are not the most important, the nectar is.

Not sure about other kids, however I also now do in my gut believe

that there are psychological aspects (psychological meaning fear) at

play in Tanner's case which played together with the underlying

problem. He had trouble going, so by the time he did go it was

painful (understatement -the last time I was ready to call 911 -and

not kidding about that. If you have a child that suffers from this

you know what I mean how horrible this is!!) Each time Tanner had

to go to the bathroom (he would sit down and then stand up and say

he couldn't go as you know for years) he actually had a look of

utter fear and horror when " it's coming! " and the screams and

tears. I joked and compared it to giving birth when I explained it

to Dr. . That was a cue to Dr. that there are fear

factors at play as well.

and...may want to read this whole article:

" Children with functional constipation experience much more anxiety

about

toileting behavior than other children, but don't display

significant general

anxiety. "

http://www.healthscout.com/news/402/515479/main.html

So in other words -this is apparently triggered by 'something', but

then it is made worse of a problem due to fear of the pain of going.

On our last visit Dr. checked Tanner's award sticker calendar

(he got a sticker each time he went over a 2 month period) and let

us know there was no reason to see him again -all looked good and

Tanner does not need medication, surgery -or even any further

tests. He did warn us that at some point we will get lax about the

nectar and that Tanner will have a relapse of constipation and that

it will all start again -and he will start to withhold due to the

pain. He told me that psychological factors are one of the largest

things at play in children.

The fact that Tanner has cleared up and is going so regular on the

nectar tells me that there is something in the nectar that he

needs. I know that is obvious -but we need to know...what does the

papaya and pear nectars offer that the juice does not?

We use a mixture of pear, papaya and mango nectar -heavy on the

pear. Here is a bit about each:

" Fresh papaya is probably the finest healing food in the world. It

is anti-inflammatory, detoxifying, has enzymes which can decompose

toxic matter, and help digest foods eaten so as to get more

nutrients out of them for feeding the cells of the body. It is

literally the finest anti aging food known and can even help prevent

wrinkles...

The second most healing food is the mango. Although it does not have

the enzyme structure as the papaya, it still has remarkable healing

and detoxifying capabilities...

Pear nectar flushes the liver gallbladder, removes gout and other

acid accumulation and prevents constipation. Two 6 oz glasses a day

between meals is the appropriate amount for most individuals. "

http://www.timeforhealth.com/foods.html

And one last thing -I believe it's really wonderful that Karyn is

offering the Benefiber samples for free -and it is a really cool

powder that disappears -however a head's up to anyone who has a

child that does well and needs the EFAs. Tanner regressed on the

addition of any fiber supplements enough that my husband Glenn (who

is not always as observant as me) called it " scary " Dr. when

I spoke to him about this said that he is not sure why -but that

it's interesting and that it's possible that the long chain fatty

acids are being short chained in the gut.

So if you try fiber supplements and notice a regression -don't be

surprised.

=====

February 7, 2004

Has anyone ever tried liquid aloe? For many years my mother would give it to me

when I was younger. I was a very bad junk food eater and this would rebalance

my stomach/intestinal tract and make it easier for me to go.

I haven't used it in years, but I'm sure they still sell a pure form of liquid

aloe in the health food stores. Make sure it is not heated in the manufacturing

process.

Just a thought.

Joanne Mulholland

----- Original Message -----

From: kiddietalk

February 7, 2004

From: " Joanne Mulholland " ever Has anyone tried liquid aloe?

We used Aloe Vera gel or juice from the health food store mixed with water

before meals. I had one child that projectile vomited everything he ate

while the other one got severely constipated and it seemed to help them

both. It had to be pure aloe gel or juice in the dark containers. It was

amazing. For the constipated one he also drank necters...we didn't know it

was good for constipation, its just that my kids were allergic to most

juices except mango, pear, apricot, etc...and they came in nectars at the

health food store. My constipated son LOVED prunes too.

Annemarie

Remember: Amateurs built the ark. Professionals built the Titanic.

February 7, 2004

Hi Joanne,

I first thought of aloe too, and then found the senna tea to work

for Tanner, but when I posted it here was told how bad senna is for

children and especially with long term use. (thank you!!)

The advice I heard here was confirmed by Tanner's pediatric

gastroenterologist Dr. from West Palm Beach Florida.

Dr. who told me that senna, and harsh stimulants like it

(which include aloe) are harsh on the body, and that they may work

for a bit, but you will gradually need more and more for it to

work.

Dr. advised me that the gentlest laxative is the Milk

of Magnesia because it just draws moisture to the bowels and works

the most like mother nature. Tanner likes the cherry flavored Milk

of Magnesia. MOM is " stimulant free "

http://www.bayercare.com/phillips/philmom.html

And what you need to read about aloe:

FDA Rules that Aloe & Cascara Are Not Safe as Stimulant Laxatives

Date

November 20, 2002

Details

The FDA issued a final ruling on Nov 5, 2002, stating that the

stimulant laxative ingredients aloe (including extract and flower

extract) and cascara sagrada (including all fluidextracts, bark and

casanthranol) in over-the-counter drug products are not generally

recognized as safe and effective or are misbranded. The FDA pointed

out that there is inadequate data on the toxicity of aloe and

cascara sagrada. These products have not been shown to be safe and

effective for their intended use. These ingredients should be

eliminated from general use within 180 days

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/12015.cfm

" herbal teas containing senna, aloe, buckthorn, and other plant-

derived laxatives that, when consumed in excessive amounts, can

cause diarrhea, vomiting, nausea, stomach cramps, chronic

constipation, fainting, and perhaps death. "

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/health/teatime/597_tea.html

And again -an archive about what the traditional gastroenterologist

Dr. " prescribed " for Tanner which is working (just wish he

didn't have to drink nectar every day!):

" This also may have to do with some signaling problem or motor

planning aspect. Not sure -but who cares when anyone just about

anywhere can pick up pear nectar or Dole papaya fruit and gel

bowls! This works -and we love Dr. !!

> Today I took Tanner to see pediatric gastroenterologist Lawrence

> MD from Palm Beach Florida for Tanner's problem with

> constipation which we have been trying to help him with now for

the

> past 5 years or more with various MDs (Tanner is now 7) Up till

now

> nobody has wanted to put Tanner on medications -and since we've

> moved we haven't taken Tanner to see his NJ/NY MDs. I highly

> recommend Dr. if you are in Florida in that he took over an

> hour with us -was excellent with Tanner (very funny) and was very

> open to discussing off the wall theories on constipation in

apraxic

> children -a best kept secret even though it's known for autism.

Dr.

> has many patients with special needs -some with severe CP

> whose parents have to blend fruits for their constipation that

they

> can put through their feeding tube.

>

> Here is a brief summery from the prescription he gave me:

>

> Diet: Nectars (fruit juices) Papaya, pear, apricot (if he can

> stand it -can mix with others but try plain nectar first)

> * prune juice -can be mixed with orange juice (since most kids

don't

> like it)

>

> exotic fruits- figs, dates, apricot, papaya (papaya underlined

> twice) (if he can stand it -like the nectars -these work wonders

he

> said)

>

> limit -banana, apple, rice, dairy

>

> Milk of Magnesia 2-3 tablespoons with glass of water any time he

> skips 1 day. Works 4-8 hours.

>

> Behavior Modification -10 minutes daily -no distractions. Use

> calendar stickers -every week reward for amount of BMs

> 2/ week something small

> 3-4 medium

> 5-7 large reward

>

> Dr. said that there is a chance that the problem could be

> motor planning -but he can't fix that -his goal is to get Tanner

on

> a schedule for a long period of time so that he starts going

> automatically. He doesn't want me to use the Nature's Tea due to

> the senna in it -said it can cause dependence in long term use,

and

> said that due to what I reported with Tanner's regression with too

> much fiber not to use high fiber either. He said it is possible

> that the fiber is cutting short the fatty acids in the gut. "

=====

February 8, 2004

Hello ,

A R.N./nutritionist has recommended the following website for those suffering

from digestive problems and more. http://www.molocure.com/ I would appreciate

any feedback on this product (good or bad).

Regards,

Joanne

[ ] Re: high fiber regression/constipation