RE:aggressiveness

[Guest guest]

I have lurked on this site for quite some time now and thought I would make

my first e-mail appearance by responding to the discussion on

aggressiveness.

I have a 13 year old son who is considered moderately involved (autism),

however, if he were not so apraxic I suspect he would be considered high

functioning. Anyhow, we are at a good spot now, but we went through HE-- for

a few years and I wanted to pass on some experience.

My son at age 3 and 4 was very much like many of you describe your children.

We did not have a label of autism - he was speech impaired - severe -

apraxia was not a term that was heard of but we thought our son spoke as

though he had a stroke - some times the words came easily other times he

couldn't get anything out and other times it was so garbled no one had a

clue what he was saying. To this day the apraxia is severe and his speech is

unlike any kid I have ever met w/ autism...and his social skills are his

strength.

Anyhow, our son started to throw temper tantrums rather early - they were

long and loud - but not physical. As he got older and smarter he learned

that throwing objects got a big reaction - and in retrospect that reaction

reinforced the behavior. When it got really bad - age 4 - I went to a

psychologist who gave me the EXACT advice you got- " ignore negative behavior

as much as possible, use time out, if he won;t stay, restrain him. " I

encourage you to RUN from any psychologist that teaches these strategies.

Restraining is the worst thing you can be doing and should be used only if

there are no other options.

I followed the 'expert's advice and passed it on to the school...and my son

got worse. yelling and screaming and baby hits turned into hair pulling,

biting, spitting, flipping desks. IT continued and got worse and worse until

we placed him residentially at age 9 ( 65 days). What happens over time is

the kids self esteem heads south and they are not being taught other

strategies to get what they want/need. A functional behavioral analysis is

key here - you have to observe and collect and analyze data to determine why

the behavior is occurring - 'frustration' is too global of a reason - he is

seeking attention, seeking tangibles, trying to avoid something, etc..Then

you have to build a plan that teaches him how to get what he wants w/o all

the behavior.

During this process it might mean you have to kiddie proof your home and

have a strategy for dealing w. the aggression - such as - w/ no eye contact

and one statement " If you hit you must be alone " , pick the child up and

place them in their room and hold the door shut 0 if they escalate, remain

quite until they calm down - the second they are calm, reinforce " Great, you

are calm!Come show mom what you want " - or " you cannot watch TV still, but

let's go play trains. " or what ever is appropriate.

A restraint gives attention, and it also teaches the child they only need to

control them selves when there is someone big enough to make them. I have

also seen the restraint turn into a pattern - the kid thinks the only way

they can get calm is to go throw the restraint and kick and scream and flail

to near exhaustion...and then they are calm.

I hope I haven't offended anyone w/ my first post - but I have been there -

you will loose critical years if you get in the " restraint as behavior

management " mode of thinking. My son is doing great now, but in retrospect

we did not have to go through what we went through. I cannot stress to you

how important it is to find a better way to deal w., the aggression. I have

seen too many kids end up in very restrictive placements because of the use

of restraints. If you are restraining on a daily basis, this is WAY too

frequent...and this goes for using a mechanical restraint such as a car

seat. Just my 2 cents.

Ronnie

[Guest guest]

Hi Ronnie ,

I agree with you . I tend not to comment on this too much because I

think people read " my son is autistic " and think that that means it

can't possibly apply to their child but I think the reinforcement

stategy is absoloutely universal .

Restraining only stops the behaviour of that moment but teaches

nothing . I did have to restrain Charlie briefly but it was part of a

strategy designed to stop the violence but imediately replace it with

something more appropriate . When he attacked me ( or whoever) I

would just take hold of his wrists and turn his body away from me -

withdrawing any intimate contact ( eye contact especially - which as

he was autistic I found really hard !!!) . I had to keep my voice low

and the language very very limited , perhaps just NO. The idea was to

make sure that he was not reinforced or stimulated by raised emotion

or noise , nor was he overwhelmed by language at a time when he was

already overburdened. As soon as he was quiet I would praise him .

He fought like a demon for the first couple of times but I never held

him longer than ten - twenty seconds . I just had to repeat it a

couple of times when we first started . I also found that vocalising

what I knew he was feeling seemed to help " Charlie is angry " . He

took to it really quickly and soon found that he had no pay off for

it . It stopped . I had to be very careful with distraction as he

could interpret that as a reward . I kept the praise to " good quiet

Charlie " and maybe a drink or a hug - no fun activities or my smart

boy would have been tantruming every five minutes in no time at

all !!! It was for a long time about being patient and calm just at

a time when I wanted to either die of embarresment or , frankly ,

smack him . He was though nearly always acting out of fear and to

hold him and restrain him for long periods would have thrown his

distress into orbit. Once he had stopped being violent towards me

everything else was much easier - I found just calmly taking him to

his bedroom solved nearly every situation .

I now find that sometimes he will come to me and just be very still

next to me . I out my arm around him but keep still and quiet - he

has started to find away to come to me for comfort when he is anxious

and that is amazing for him ...I made the mistake initially of

muttering soothing stuff at him but I quickly realised he needed me

to be silent and still - it is calming for him , although I look like

a bitch to the passoing public !!! I also had to learn which of my

sons behaviours were stims and out of his control and which were

acting out . I could get him on his best behaviour and have a hundred

of his best treats lined up but he CANNOT go into the toy shop and

not look at the the Tank engine . And I can't ask him to share

that - anything else yes , but that one no ...that is his autism and

all I can do with that behaviour is manage it and try to understand .

I found your post interesting ...Thanks !!!

Regards

Deborah

( ps ..I have to say though that I was also watching a massive drop

in his mood swings at this time anyway and I recognised the foods

that were likely to provoke an outburst ( SKITTLES !!!! and milk

products )so that helped too !!!......whatever works !!! )

> I have lurked on this site for quite some time now and thought I

would make

> my first e-mail appearance by responding to the discussion on

> aggressiveness.

>

> I have a 13 year old son who is considered moderately involved

(autism),

> however, if he were not so apraxic I suspect he would be considered

high

> functioning. Anyhow, we are at a good spot now, but we went through

HE-- for

> a few years and I wanted to pass on some experience.

>

> My son at age 3 and 4 was very much like many of you describe your

children.

> We did not have a label of autism - he was speech impaired -

severe -

> apraxia was not a term that was heard of but we thought our son

spoke as

> though he had a stroke - some times the words came easily other

times he

> couldn't get anything out and other times it was so garbled no one

had a

> clue what he was saying. To this day the apraxia is severe and his

speech is

> unlike any kid I have ever met w/ autism...and his social skills

are his

> strength.

>

> Anyhow, our son started to throw temper tantrums rather early -

they were

> long and loud - but not physical. As he got older and smarter he

learned

> that throwing objects got a big reaction - and in retrospect that

reaction

> reinforced the behavior. When it got really bad - age 4 - I went to

a

> psychologist who gave me the EXACT advice you got- " ignore negative

behavior

> as much as possible, use time out, if he won;t stay, restrain him. "

I

> encourage you to RUN from any psychologist that teaches these

strategies.

> Restraining is the worst thing you can be doing and should be used

only if

> there are no other options.

>

> I followed the 'expert's advice and passed it on to the

school...and my son

> got worse. yelling and screaming and baby hits turned into hair

pulling,

> biting, spitting, flipping desks. IT continued and got worse and

worse until

> we placed him residentially at age 9 ( 65 days). What happens over

time is

> the kids self esteem heads south and they are not being taught other

> strategies to get what they want/need. A functional behavioral

analysis is

> key here - you have to observe and collect and analyze data to

determine why

> the behavior is occurring - 'frustration' is too global of a

reason - he is

> seeking attention, seeking tangibles, trying to avoid something,

etc..Then

> you have to build a plan that teaches him how to get what he wants

w/o all

> the behavior.

>

> During this process it might mean you have to kiddie proof your

home and

> have a strategy for dealing w. the aggression - such as - w/ no eye

contact

> and one statement " If you hit you must be alone " , pick the child up

and

> place them in their room and hold the door shut 0 if they escalate,

remain

> quite until they calm down - the second they are calm,

reinforce " Great, you

> are calm!Come show mom what you want " - or " you cannot watch TV

still, but

> let's go play trains. " or what ever is appropriate.

>

> A restraint gives attention, and it also teaches the child they

only need to

> control them selves when there is someone big enough to make them.

I have

> also seen the restraint turn into a pattern - the kid thinks the

only way

> they can get calm is to go throw the restraint and kick and scream

and flail

> to near exhaustion...and then they are calm.

>

> I hope I haven't offended anyone w/ my first post - but I have been

there -

> you will loose critical years if you get in the " restraint as

behavior

> management " mode of thinking. My son is doing great now, but in

retrospect

> we did not have to go through what we went through. I cannot stress

to you

> how important it is to find a better way to deal w., the

aggression. I have

> seen too many kids end up in very restrictive placements because of

the use

> of restraints. If you are restraining on a daily basis, this is WAY

too

> frequent...and this goes for using a mechanical restraint such as a

car

> seat. Just my 2 cents.

>

> Ronnie

[Guest guest]

Hi All

ANother thing we did with Jack which helped was using " Replays " He

responded fairly well to that.

Eileen

> > I have lurked on this site for quite some time now and thought I

> would make

> > my first e-mail appearance by responding to the discussion on

> > aggressiveness.

> >

> > I have a 13 year old son who is considered moderately involved

> (autism),

> > however, if he were not so apraxic I suspect he would be

considered

> high

> > functioning. Anyhow, we are at a good spot now, but we went

through

> HE-- for

> > a few years and I wanted to pass on some experience.

> >

> > My son at age 3 and 4 was very much like many of you describe

your

> children.

> > We did not have a label of autism - he was speech impaired -

> severe -

> > apraxia was not a term that was heard of but we thought our son

> spoke as

> > though he had a stroke - some times the words came easily other

> times he

> > couldn't get anything out and other times it was so garbled no

one

> had a

> > clue what he was saying. To this day the apraxia is severe and

his

> speech is

> > unlike any kid I have ever met w/ autism...and his social skills

> are his

> > strength.

> >

> > Anyhow, our son started to throw temper tantrums rather early -

> they were

> > long and loud - but not physical. As he got older and smarter he

> learned

> > that throwing objects got a big reaction - and in retrospect

that

> reaction

> > reinforced the behavior. When it got really bad - age 4 - I went

to

> a

> > psychologist who gave me the EXACT advice you got- " ignore

negative

> behavior

> > as much as possible, use time out, if he won;t stay, restrain

him. "

> I

> > encourage you to RUN from any psychologist that teaches these

> strategies.

> > Restraining is the worst thing you can be doing and should be

used

> only if

> > there are no other options.

> >

> > I followed the 'expert's advice and passed it on to the

> school...and my son

> > got worse. yelling and screaming and baby hits turned into hair

> pulling,

> > biting, spitting, flipping desks. IT continued and got worse and

> worse until

> > we placed him residentially at age 9 ( 65 days). What happens

over

> time is

> > the kids self esteem heads south and they are not being taught

other

> > strategies to get what they want/need. A functional behavioral

> analysis is

> > key here - you have to observe and collect and analyze data to

> determine why

> > the behavior is occurring - 'frustration' is too global of a

> reason - he is

> > seeking attention, seeking tangibles, trying to avoid something,

> etc..Then

> > you have to build a plan that teaches him how to get what he

wants

> w/o all

> > the behavior.

> >

> > During this process it might mean you have to kiddie proof your

> home and

> > have a strategy for dealing w. the aggression - such as - w/ no

eye

> contact

> > and one statement " If you hit you must be alone " , pick the child

up

> and

> > place them in their room and hold the door shut 0 if they

escalate,

> remain

> > quite until they calm down - the second they are calm,

> reinforce " Great, you

> > are calm!Come show mom what you want " - or " you cannot watch TV

> still, but

> > let's go play trains. " or what ever is appropriate.

> >

> > A restraint gives attention, and it also teaches the child they

> only need to

> > control them selves when there is someone big enough to make

them.

> I have

> > also seen the restraint turn into a pattern - the kid thinks the

> only way

> > they can get calm is to go throw the restraint and kick and

scream

> and flail

> > to near exhaustion...and then they are calm.

> >

> > I hope I haven't offended anyone w/ my first post - but I have

been

> there -

> > you will loose critical years if you get in the " restraint as

> behavior

> > management " mode of thinking. My son is doing great now, but in

> retrospect

> > we did not have to go through what we went through. I cannot

stress

> to you

> > how important it is to find a better way to deal w., the

> aggression. I have

> > seen too many kids end up in very restrictive placements because

of

> the use

> > of restraints. If you are restraining on a daily basis, this is

WAY

> too

> > frequent...and this goes for using a mechanical restraint such as

a

> car

> > seat. Just my 2 cents.

> >

> > Ronnie

[Guest guest]

Hi Ronnie,

This happens to be my first posting as well. I have an 8 year olf boy who

has mild/moderate cerebral palsy, more importantly he is speech impaired as

well as cognitively impaired. Last fall he was staffed in a behavioral

oriented classroom. ph had to be moved into this classroom because he

was becoming increasingly frustrated at school. I had put him in what what I

believed was the least restrictive environment hoping he would pick up the

'approppriate behaviors " of his peers. What a disaster !! During his first

grade year as the classroom size began to increase and his teacher became

pregnant, his behaviors became increasingly more aggressive--non

participation, tantruming, kicking, defacating in his pants. Thank goodness

the staff was very supportive and being an involved parent we strove together

and tried to implement some behavior management stratgies Fortuntely, the

behaviors became less frequent but no one could get him motivated to

partcipate in school work. So we all agreed the current placement was in

appropriate and overwhelming for him. So he was placed in a severly

emotionally disturbed class that pride itself on behavior management

techniques. I must admit that at first the label frightened me and I

initially resisted. I went and visited a few of the different classrooms and

was very selective in which school I wanted him. ph responds well to a

lot of nuturing . So I knew I had to find the right teacher ! Last fall he

began 2nd grade. As he did begin tantruming they did have to restrain but in

a very calm way. I must tell you by the end of this passing school year no

restraining was necessary. although he was the only child w/ CP and speech

impaired -- the other children loved him and protecetd him. Since he is a

very shy and introverted child it was a great accomplishment to see him

playing with other children on the playground. During the year-- my husband

and myself were actively invololved with the school psychotherapist that

would counsel us on parenting skills as well as counsel ph in private and

group thearpies. Although all is not perfect and far from it-- he has made

significant strides in managing his aggressive impulses . I must also

mention that ph was also a learning experience for the class room staff

in understanding sensory integartion issues and all that comes with

communication disorders. From this entire experience I can honestly say that

it is extremely important to have good relationship with teachers, school

staffs, etc and they will truly help in staffing appropriately. Of course we

all have to research and stay involved !!