Guest guest Posted June 4, 2004 Report Share Posted June 4, 2004 I suppose a remission can happen for five years or more, but just a reminder for everyone there is no cure for arthritis. An extended remission should always be viewed as a great blessing... but it's certainly not cured. And of course, that's using the pure form of the word " remission " -- a clinical remission is a totally different thing, and five years or not, clinical remission is entirely drug-dependent and therefore obviously not anything remotely resembling a cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 5, 2004 Report Share Posted June 5, 2004 Dear Rosemary, This disease is very confusing to me too! But I'm starting to expect its unpredicatablility (somewhat!) One month I'll be working in the garden (very rare but a sign that inflammation is right down) then the next 6 months inflammation will gradually increase till I beg my doctor for prednisone. He takes me off Naprosyn to put me on Prednisone and I burst into a flare so bad I can't move and cry at the drop of I hat and beg to go back on Naprosyn. Now its back to aching and limping every day and dropping everything. What really confuses me is patterns I fall into of one day being very sore then the next day better then the next day very sore alternating continously. Of course if I see my Rheumy on a good day I look like a hypochondriac, oh well he's still treating me! In 8 years I've had one remission I can claim for. 14 months following the birth of my first child. No pain. No inflammation. Great regular walks. Exercise. I forgot I had PA. That was 4 years ago. (Sigh!) I live to feel that good again.The energy I felt was amazing. I can't wait for Enbrel to be available in Australia! I dont take sleeping tablets but my doctor suggested them because I often can't fall asleep for a few hours due to pain. Hold in there Rosemary, you're not alone! > hi glad to see you're all back ,i wasn't getting your letters for > awhile didnt know why but do now, sortoff ,any way i was wondering if > anyone ever went into remission (some what) (I don't have any signs > of psoriasis yet.) (but the arthritis is bad )right now it sortoff in > remission I think .i have lots of pain everyday but (bareable to a > point) i mean im not cripple to my bed like it was doing ( but do > have the tiredness )i was flaring up bad and was unable to move it > was terrible .but its been a year now and no serious flare up but i > do ache everyday sometimes to the point i can't hold the tears back. > im so scared most of time that its going to come back and i know some > day it will but for now im good (kind off)I know this don't sound > like its in remission but to a point i think it is ( someone can > correct me if im wrong)I guess i would like to know if anyone else > went through this or is going throught the same . It confuses me some > times i don't know what to think.but I know at this point im glad im > were im am now , (not really) but its the best i can hope for now but > im sure you all know what i mean . i love reading your letters it > gives me comfort,to know im not alone and everthing thats happening > to me is not all in my head . this desease is awful , i work with > home care and i had a client with arthritis and she die the pain was > so unbareable she couldnt take it any more and the hospital said they > couldnt help her , they sand her home she die that night she was in > too much pain , i think of her alot , well any way im tied its 9pm i > can't stay up past 9pm anymore but its the sleeping pills my rheum. > got me on for my fibro. does any one else take sleeping pills.my > rheumatologist says i need then the more sleep i get the better. good > night all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2004 Report Share Posted June 6, 2004 , Why in the world have they not tried other drugs for you, I know naprosyn and celebrex and a lot of other anti-imflammatories did nothing for me. I was on Sulfasalisine, for about the last 4 almost five years, we are finally able to decrease and looking to stop completely that drug. Maybe they should try vioxx or some other anti- imflammatory. Maybe a disease modifying drug to help with the progression. Anyway, I hope you get some help until the biologics become available there. Keli > Dear Rosemary, > This disease is very confusing to me too! But I'm starting to expect > its unpredicatablility (somewhat!) > > One month I'll be working in the garden (very rare but a sign that > inflammation is right down) > then the next 6 months inflammation will gradually increase till I > beg my doctor for prednisone. He takes me off Naprosyn to put me on > Prednisone and I burst into a flare so bad I can't move and cry at > the drop of I hat and beg to go back on Naprosyn. > > Now its back to aching and limping every day and dropping everything. > What really confuses me is patterns I fall into of one day being very > sore then the next day better then the next day very sore alternating > continously. Of course if I see my Rheumy on a good day I look like a > hypochondriac, oh well he's still treating me! > > In 8 years I've had one remission I can claim for. 14 months > following the birth of my first child. No pain. No inflammation. > Great regular walks. Exercise. I forgot I had PA. That was 4 years > ago. (Sigh!) I live to feel that good again.The energy I felt was > amazing. > > I can't wait for Enbrel to be available in Australia! > I dont take sleeping tablets but my doctor suggested them because I > often can't fall asleep for a few hours due to pain. > > Hold in there Rosemary, you're not alone! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Terri, you aren't boasting. That you are in remission is fantastic news! We want and need to hear positive stories like yours. Hope is so important here. Continued good luck to you! I'll tell you where to go! Mayo Clinic in Rochester http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester s Hopkins Medicine http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org [ ] Remission > Hello Everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know how I am doing. Saw the Rheumy on Friday the 13th and she asked me how I was doing. To bring you up to date when I saw her 3 months prior we decided together to try decreasing the Arava to every other day. I told her I felt I was in remission. She felt my hands, and feet. Listened to my heart and lungs. She asked me how long I am stiff in the morning. I told her I have no stiffness. She then said, " yes, I agree with you that you are in remission " . My blood work is excellent. We are now going to decrease the Arava to 2 times per week until I see her again in about 4 months. We do have a plan if I should slip. I feel wonderful and didn't post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful and still struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast, but hang in there to all. > > Terri Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Terri, What is Arava? Is it in the same family as enbrel? Thanks, ette > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Terri,...That is great news, and I'm so glad for you! It gives us all hope for brighter futures, so keep up the good work, Tawny > Hello Everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know how I am doing. Saw the Rheumy on Friday the 13th and she asked me how I was doing. To bring you up to date when I saw her 3 months prior we decided together to try decreasing the Arava to every other day. I told her I felt I was in remission. She felt my hands, and feet. Listened to my heart and lungs. She asked me how long I am stiff in the morning. I told her I have no stiffness. She then said, " yes, I agree with you that you are in remission " . My blood work is excellent. We are now going to decrease the Arava to 2 times per week until I see her again in about 4 months. We do have a plan if I should slip. I feel wonderful and didn't post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful and still struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast, but hang in there to all. > > Terri > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Great news, Terri. Hope it lasts a looooooonnnnnnnggg time. (like forever!) > Hello Everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know how I am doing. Saw the Rheumy on Friday the 13th and she asked me how I was doing. To bring you up to date when I saw her 3 months prior we decided together to try decreasing the Arava to every other day. I told her I felt I was in remission. She felt my hands, and feet. Listened to my heart and lungs. She asked me how long I am stiff in the morning. I told her I have no stiffness. She then said, " yes, I agree with you that you are in remission " . My blood work is excellent. We are now going to decrease the Arava to 2 times per week until I see her again in about 4 months. We do have a plan if I should slip. I feel wonderful and didn't post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful and still struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast, but hang in there to all. > > Terri > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 I feel wonderful and > didn't post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful > and still struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast Are you kidding?! Your news brings hope! Glad to hear it. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Terry, This is awesome. I am so happy for you. Please don't feel that you have to leave us now that you are feeling so much better. It gives me hope that this may happen in my life. I pray every morning when I wake up and am stiff and in pain that a day will come that I will have no pain. I am again so happy for you. God bless, Althea > Hello Everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know how I am doing. Saw the Rheumy on Friday the 13th and she asked me how I was doing. To bring you up to date when I saw her 3 months prior we decided together to try decreasing the Arava to every other day. I told her I felt I was in remission. She felt my hands, and feet. Listened to my heart and lungs. She asked me how long I am stiff in the morning. I told her I have no stiffness. She then said, " yes, I agree with you that you are in remission " . My blood work is excellent. We are now going to decrease the Arava to 2 times per week until I see her again in about 4 months. We do have a plan if I should slip. I feel wonderful and didn't post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful and still struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast, but hang in there to all. > > Terri > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 Terri, I'm so happy for you. Thank you for telling us. There have been others that have gone into remission but they just leave and don't tell the group. We need to hear about the good and the bad, and we could definitely use some more good like yours! I hope your remission is permanent and you can enjoy life to it's fullest. a > Hello Everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know how I am doing. Saw the Rheumy on Friday > the 13th and she asked me how I was doing. To bring you up to date when I saw > her 3 months prior we decided together to try decreasing the Arava to every > other day. I told her I felt I was in remission. She felt my hands, and > feet. Listened to my heart and lungs. She asked me how long I am stiff in > the morning. I told her I have no stiffness. She then said, " yes, I agree > with you that you are in remission " . My blood work is excellent. We are now > going to decrease the Arava to 2 times per week until I see her again in about > 4 months. We do have a plan if I should slip. I feel wonderful and didn't > post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful and still > struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast, but hang in there to all. > > Terri > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2004 Report Share Posted August 18, 2004 So happy for you Terri.We really need to keep in touch now to follow your progress. Your telling us this, is giving many hope. Hugs June ----- Terry, This is awesome. I am so happy for you. Please don't feel that you have to leave us now that you are feeling so much better. It gives me hope that this may happen in my life. I pray every morning when I wake up and am stiff and in pain that a day will come that I will have no pain. I am again so happy for you. God bless, Althea > Hello Everyone, > > Just a quick note to let you know how I am doing. Saw the Rheumy on Friday the 13th and she asked me how I was doing. To bring you up to date when I saw her 3 months prior we decided together to try decreasing the Arava to every other day. I told her I felt I was in remission. She felt my hands, and feet. Listened to my heart and lungs. She asked me how long I am stiff in the morning. I told her I have no stiffness. She then said, " yes, I agree with you that you are in remission " . My blood work is excellent. We are now going to decrease the Arava to 2 times per week until I see her again in about 4 months. We do have a plan if I should slip. I feel wonderful and didn't post earlier because I feel for the people who are so painful and still struggle with this disease. I don't want to boast, but hang in there to all. > > Terri > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Thanks very much for writing, Judy. I so enjoy reading good news like yours first thing in the morning. I hope Humira allows you to continue feeling like a " new woman " ! I'll tell you where to go! Mayo Clinic in Rochester http://www.mayoclinic.org/rochester s Hopkins Medicine http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org Re: [ ] Remission Mornin' Folks, Terri, this is wonderful news, I'm very happy for you and glad you shared. As a said hope your remission is permanent. With that said Terri you have inspired me to mention my personal success of late. I've posted a time or two but mostly lurk and learn much, for this I thank each and everyone. Without going into a long story my first notable signs of RA was a year ago last June. The first visit with my Rheumatologist wasn't till December of the same year and by the first of this year was given the Diagnosis of RA. Below is a list of meds I'm on. You can see by the dates the doctor was trying his best to find some relief for me without putting me on " pain meds " , something he will not perscribe. I took my second dose Humira this passed Wednesday. I must say relief came within just a few days after the first injection on the 4th of this month. Don't know if a remission is what's happening here but I feel like a new woman, well " new " for a 48 year old woman with RA anyway. Vioxx - 25mg 1 tab daily. Rx first dose - 12/05/03 Hydroxychlor (Plaquenil) - 200mg 1 tab morning and evening. Rx first dose - 12/05/03 Methotrexate - 2.5mg 3 tabs once a week for two weeks then 6 tabs once a week there after. Rx first dose - 1/5/04 - Along with this I take Folic Acid 1000mcg daily. RX dose change - 3/1/04 - 8 tabs once a week, taken on Mondays. Humira (Adalimumab) 40mg/0.8 mL Syringe – 1 injection under the skin every 2 weeks. Every other Wednesday. RX first dose - 8/4/04 Ambien - 10mg 1 tab at bedtime for sleep. Rx first dose - 12/23/03 Perhaps there is real hope for all of us battling RA. Just thought I would share my little success thus far. May everyone find their own successes to stop the progression of this awful disease. Thanks again everyone, now back to my lurk mode. Judy from Oklahoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Judy, I hope you continue to do well on your regime of meds. Since it's early in your disease, maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones to go into permanent remission. a > Mornin' Folks, > > Terri, this is wonderful news, I'm very happy for you and glad you shared. > As a said hope your remission is permanent. > > With that said Terri you have inspired me to mention my personal success of > late. > I've posted a time or two but mostly lurk and learn much, for this I thank > each and everyone. > > Without going into a long story my first notable signs of RA was a year ago > last June. > The first visit with my Rheumatologist wasn't till December of the same year > and by the first of this year was given the Diagnosis of RA. Below is a list > of meds I'm on. You can see by the dates the doctor was trying his best to > find some relief for me without putting me on " pain meds " , something he will > not perscribe. I took my second dose Humira this passed Wednesday. I must say > relief came within just a few days after the first injection on the 4th of > this month. Don't know if a remission is what's happening here but I feel like > a new woman, well " new " for a 48 year old woman with RA anyway. > > > Vioxx - 25mg 1 tab daily. > > Rx first dose - 12/05/03 > > > > Hydroxychlor (Plaquenil) - 200mg 1 tab morning and evening. > > Rx first dose - 12/05/03 > > > > Methotrexate - 2.5mg 3 tabs once a week for two weeks then 6 tabs once a week > there after. > > Rx first dose - 1/5/04 - Along with this I take Folic Acid 1000mcg daily. > > RX dose change - 3/1/04 - 8 tabs once a week, taken on Mondays. > > > > Humira (Adalimumab) 40mg/0.8 mL Syringe – 1 injection under the skin every 2 > weeks. > > Every other Wednesday. > > RX first dose - 8/4/04 > > > > Ambien - 10mg 1 tab at bedtime for sleep. > > Rx first dose - 12/23/03 > > Perhaps there is real hope for all of us battling RA. Just thought I would > share my little success thus far. May everyone find their own successes to > stop the progression of this awful disease. Thanks again everyone, now back to > my lurk mode. > > Judy from Oklahoma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Remission to us is 100% med free and normal LFT. We are in the middle of our 4th week!!! Jayne in NH Mom to Zach 11 yo DX: AIH 11/02, UC 11/02, Diary free 12/02 > > What does it mean to be in " remission " ? Do you have to have normal > LFT's and be off meds? or just have normal LFT's? > > Cora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Normal LFT and 100% off all medication for 1 year now!!! Praise the Lord and Thanks be To Him!!! Only by the grace of God. Bonnie > > What does it mean to be in " remission " ? Do you have to have normal > LFT's and be off meds? or just have normal LFT's? > > Cora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I was told I would be on Imuran for the rest of my life. How did you get off Imuran? How long did you have to have normal LFT's before they took you off Imuran? Cora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Cora, Zachary had to have 2 years of normal LFT's.. he weaned off prednisone after 18 months on it and spent from february of 04 till 3 weeks ago on 6mp (same as imuran basically) but only at 25 mg a day for last few months then 25 mg ever other day...now is completely off of it...for how long? we dont know...but are hoping for a while!!! Jayne in NH Mom to Zach 11 yo DX AIH 11/02, UC 11/02, Dairy free 12/02 > > I was told I would be on Imuran for the rest of my life. How did > you get off Imuran? How long did you have to have normal LFT's > before they took you off Imuran? > > Cora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Great news, I hope he can go back to school soon. He gives me courage! Who is treating Zachary in NH and where? Clara from OR [ ] Re: Remission Cora, Zachary had to have 2 years of normal LFT's.. he weaned off prednisone after 18 months on it and spent from february of 04 till 3 weeks ago on 6mp (same as imuran basically) but only at 25 mg a day for last few months then 25 mg ever other day...now is completely off of it...for how long? we dont know...but are hoping for a while!!!Jayne in NHMom to Zach 11 yo DX AIH 11/02, UC 11/02, Dairy free 12/02> > I was told I would be on Imuran for the rest of my life. How did > you get off Imuran? How long did you have to have normal LFT's > before they took you off Imuran?> > Cora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 I know I'm not Jayne...but I go to NH for treatment. I go to Dartmouth Hitchchock Medical Center and my doctor is Dr. Dirk Van Leuuwen (pronounced van layven). I really like him....even if he does tell me I'm fat. Cora Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Cora, Zachary sees Dr. at Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center. She is a Pediatric GI. Jayne > > > > I was told I would be on Imuran for the rest of my life. How did > > you get off Imuran? How long did you have to have normal LFT's > > before they took you off Imuran? > > > > Cora > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 29, 2005 Report Share Posted March 29, 2005 , I belive you are speaking of me. I have been in remission since May 2004. No meds at all. I came off all my meds in April 2004 as I was having some minor surgery in preparation for lapband weight loss surgery which occurred in May 2004. Before going off all meds I was on: Enbrel, MTX injection 15mg, folic acid 5mg daily, leukovorin, prozac, bextra 20mg, ultram, claritin, multi-vit, calcium, magnesium, zinc, B-150, evening primrose oil, vit-E, and Fish oil complex. I have been in in the past: Methotrexate pills, flexeril, sonota, Arava and prednisone. I was diagnosised in 2001-2002..not sure on those dates...but I started on Arava, pred and Bextra. After about 6-7 months the arava stopped working. So I got switched to Methotrexate pills..which made me deathly illl and I got drug induced pneumonitis. that was stopped and Enbrel added. then my doc added MTX injectable back in..which has always made me very sick...I finally stopped the MTX on my own...got tired of being sick. Since having weightloss surgery i have no need for meds. I feel good. little to no pain. I am on a high protein, low fat, low carb diet, lots of water, daily exercise. I have lost 50 lbs so far. I noticed within a few weeks after surgery that I had no pain at all. I also do not do sugar, sodas, junk food and eat very little bread. I also have left my high stress job...I am still out on long term disability. Good luck Toni In a message dated 3/29/2005 11:56:46 AM Central Standard Time, writes: Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: Matejcek <corgi1980@...> Subject: Remission Hi, Some one wrote recently about being in remission and free of medication since May of 2002. Sorry I cannot address this person personally, I thought I saved the email but seems I did not. Would whoever you are care to speak about this more? How long were you diagnosed with RA before remission? What drugs were you on before remission - if any? Do you do anything now proactively to stay in remission and avoid flares - diet, exercise, lifestyle changes? I'd like to learn more if you are willing to share. As for me, I am 52 and was diagnosed in January of this year with RA. Currently on 20mg MTX and 5 mg Pred and working my way down to zero Pred. Feeling very good and want it to last. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Lance, I would also love to hear your story about how you achieved remission. I've resigned myself to a life of this torment but to hear that someone has stopped suffering is wonderful news. Marty ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2007 Report Share Posted July 20, 2007 Reiter's syndrome, as well as other spondy diseases can go into complete remission, some will have only a few episodes during one's lifetime, and some have a chronic disease and have to deal with it their whole lifetime. It can progress to AS and fusion. Most literature says the ReA usually runs it's course after 6 months. We usually see only the chronic form in this group, possibly because after dealing with the disease over a long period of time, we need extra support. It is always nice to see people in remission. I, myself had a complete remission from AS...only to return 10 years later with fusions, uveitis and IBD. I've had AS for about 35 years, all four of my siblings have it. Three (maybe more) of my children have it.....various degrees. They do not know why this happens. It is possible that other genetic markers besides the HLA B27 gene could play into it. Before they had anti-TNF drugs, this pattern was pretty much the same. So far, the TNF drugs have helped those with chronic spondy (arthritic problems) the most...the percentage is high for at least 80% of our symptoms. Anti-TNF has even reversed damage. Prevents damage the most. UTI is a separate problem that some have. If antibiotics are given soon enough, most literature says that it does not seem to help any further if given over 6 months. So glad Lance had a good result and it never, never pops it's ugly head for you. You might be one of the very lucky ones. Happy travels, Lance. Connie ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 Hey everyone, Just for the record, I am typing this?in?a light-hearted, jokey sort of way: I am experiencing a spontaneous remission.? I no longer feel well taking my armour due to hyperT symptoms.? I have not taken any armour in two days, and the day before that I only took 2 pills compared to my usual 14 (7 grains).? I realize that perhaps this is just part of the rolercoaster, but the joy of not having to take so many pills in a day has been amsolutely amazing.? Not needing to schedule my whole day to fit in time for the pills, not gagging at the smell, the whole thing ... I am so happy at not having to take them. Even if it is just for a couple of days.? I know that the chances of?an actual remission happening are pretty much impossible, but I'm praying my hardest anyway. Wish me luck! ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2007 Report Share Posted December 15, 2007 I certainly do wish you luck. I also wish it for the rest of us. Maybe there is really hope. Roni bear339@... wrote: Hey everyone, Just for the record, I am typing this?in?a light-hearted, jokey sort of way: I am experiencing a spontaneous remission.? I no longer feel well taking my armour due to hyperT symptoms.? I have not taken any armour in two days, and the day before that I only took 2 pills compared to my usual 14 (7 grains).? I realize that perhaps this is just part of the rolercoaster, but the joy of not having to take so many pills in a day has been amsolutely amazing.? Not needing to schedule my whole day to fit in time for the pills, not gagging at the smell, the whole thing ... I am so happy at not having to take them. Even if it is just for a couple of days.? I know that the chances of?an actual remission happening are pretty much impossible, but I'm praying my hardest anyway. Wish me luck! __________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.