To

[Guest guest]

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Claudine,

LTF's .....Liver function test.....good info., also about the viral

load....what is normal? Thanks also for the rice krispies and grape nut

iron reduced breakfast...... I hate the thought of giving up coffee.

Is it really that bad on the liver? Good Day All.....Dee Dee

>From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

>Reply-Hepatitis Conelist

>Hepatitis Conelist

>Subject: RE: to

>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:11:01 CST

>

>It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

>

>After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

>not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

>you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait

>until

>you had thousands to kill off?

>

>I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that

>said

>treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as

>possible

>with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

>

> Claudine

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Claudine,

LTF's .....Liver function test.....good info., also about the viral

load....what is normal? Thanks also for the rice krispies and grape nut

iron reduced breakfast...... I hate the thought of giving up coffee.

Is it really that bad on the liver? Good Day All.....Dee Dee

>From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

>Reply-Hepatitis Conelist

>Hepatitis Conelist

>Subject: RE: to

>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:11:01 CST

>

>It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

>

>After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

>not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

>you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait

>until

>you had thousands to kill off?

>

>I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that

>said

>treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as

>possible

>with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

>

> Claudine

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Claudine,

LTF's .....Liver function test.....good info., also about the viral

load....what is normal? Thanks also for the rice krispies and grape nut

iron reduced breakfast...... I hate the thought of giving up coffee.

Is it really that bad on the liver? Good Day All.....Dee Dee

>From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

>Reply-Hepatitis Conelist

>Hepatitis Conelist

>Subject: RE: to

>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:11:01 CST

>

>It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

>

>After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

>not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

>you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait

>until

>you had thousands to kill off?

>

>I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that

>said

>treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as

>possible

>with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

>

> Claudine

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Claudine,

LTF's .....Liver function test.....good info., also about the viral

load....what is normal? Thanks also for the rice krispies and grape nut

iron reduced breakfast...... I hate the thought of giving up coffee.

Is it really that bad on the liver? Good Day All.....Dee Dee

>From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

>Reply-Hepatitis Conelist

>Hepatitis Conelist

>Subject: RE: to

>Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:11:01 CST

>

>It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

>

>After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

>not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

>you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait

>until

>you had thousands to kill off?

>

>I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that

>said

>treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as

>possible

>with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

>

> Claudine

>

>______________________________________________________

>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Claudine-

I have read the same something several times in regards to treatment when

viral levels are low. It seems like common sense to me. I think the

turnabout is the insurance companies. The treatment is expensive, has a

rather poor rate of success, and since so many of us are starting to show

up, their profit rate is dropping, greedy bastards. I believe it will be

harder for people to receive treatment in the near future because of this.

News breaks such as the one recently that declares that HCV is not such a

deadly disease after all is not going to help us a bit either. HCV affects

much more than the liver-it turns the immune system upon one's own body. I

suffer from cryo/fibro from my immune response to the virus and SS as a

direct result of treatment with Infergen. It has been almost 5 months since

going off Infergen & I still have to grease my eyes at night to keep them

from drying out & tearing (tear-such as torn pants) in my sleep. Day-lots

of drops & lousy, blurry vision. There are many other immune dysfunctions

caused by HCV, this is why some of us sought treatment in the first place!

My viral levels have always been low (generally around 5,000, excpet upon

relapsing, then a short 10x jump & then falls back), MINIMAL liver

damage-yet I have suffered greatly from my immune response to the damn virus

and so do many others. Viral levels be damned-this disease sucks!

Gail

RE: to

From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Claudine-

I have read the same something several times in regards to treatment when

viral levels are low. It seems like common sense to me. I think the

turnabout is the insurance companies. The treatment is expensive, has a

rather poor rate of success, and since so many of us are starting to show

up, their profit rate is dropping, greedy bastards. I believe it will be

harder for people to receive treatment in the near future because of this.

News breaks such as the one recently that declares that HCV is not such a

deadly disease after all is not going to help us a bit either. HCV affects

much more than the liver-it turns the immune system upon one's own body. I

suffer from cryo/fibro from my immune response to the virus and SS as a

direct result of treatment with Infergen. It has been almost 5 months since

going off Infergen & I still have to grease my eyes at night to keep them

from drying out & tearing (tear-such as torn pants) in my sleep. Day-lots

of drops & lousy, blurry vision. There are many other immune dysfunctions

caused by HCV, this is why some of us sought treatment in the first place!

My viral levels have always been low (generally around 5,000, excpet upon

relapsing, then a short 10x jump & then falls back), MINIMAL liver

damage-yet I have suffered greatly from my immune response to the damn virus

and so do many others. Viral levels be damned-this disease sucks!

Gail

RE: to

From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Claudine-

I have read the same something several times in regards to treatment when

viral levels are low. It seems like common sense to me. I think the

turnabout is the insurance companies. The treatment is expensive, has a

rather poor rate of success, and since so many of us are starting to show

up, their profit rate is dropping, greedy bastards. I believe it will be

harder for people to receive treatment in the near future because of this.

News breaks such as the one recently that declares that HCV is not such a

deadly disease after all is not going to help us a bit either. HCV affects

much more than the liver-it turns the immune system upon one's own body. I

suffer from cryo/fibro from my immune response to the virus and SS as a

direct result of treatment with Infergen. It has been almost 5 months since

going off Infergen & I still have to grease my eyes at night to keep them

from drying out & tearing (tear-such as torn pants) in my sleep. Day-lots

of drops & lousy, blurry vision. There are many other immune dysfunctions

caused by HCV, this is why some of us sought treatment in the first place!

My viral levels have always been low (generally around 5,000, excpet upon

relapsing, then a short 10x jump & then falls back), MINIMAL liver

damage-yet I have suffered greatly from my immune response to the damn virus

and so do many others. Viral levels be damned-this disease sucks!

Gail

RE: to

From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

---------------------------

[Guest guest]

Claudine-

I have read the same something several times in regards to treatment when

viral levels are low. It seems like common sense to me. I think the

turnabout is the insurance companies. The treatment is expensive, has a

rather poor rate of success, and since so many of us are starting to show

up, their profit rate is dropping, greedy bastards. I believe it will be

harder for people to receive treatment in the near future because of this.

News breaks such as the one recently that declares that HCV is not such a

deadly disease after all is not going to help us a bit either. HCV affects

much more than the liver-it turns the immune system upon one's own body. I

suffer from cryo/fibro from my immune response to the virus and SS as a

direct result of treatment with Infergen. It has been almost 5 months since

going off Infergen & I still have to grease my eyes at night to keep them

from drying out & tearing (tear-such as torn pants) in my sleep. Day-lots

of drops & lousy, blurry vision. There are many other immune dysfunctions

caused by HCV, this is why some of us sought treatment in the first place!

My viral levels have always been low (generally around 5,000, excpet upon

relapsing, then a short 10x jump & then falls back), MINIMAL liver

damage-yet I have suffered greatly from my immune response to the damn virus

and so do many others. Viral levels be damned-this disease sucks!

Gail

RE: to

From: " Claudine Crews " <claudinecrews@...>

It's me again ! LFT's are Liver Function Tests (like the AST and ALT)

After I wrote that last note to you I thought of an analogy to your doctor

not wanting to start treatment unless a viral load is over 2,000,000. If

you saw a cockroach in your house would you kill it right away or wait until

you had thousands to kill off?

I'm almost sure a saw something somewhere (so specific, aren't I!) that said

treatment was more likely to be successful if initiated as early as possible

with HepC. It just seems like common sense too.

Claudine

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

---------------------------

[Guest guest]

.. what is your genotype? I deleted your letter if you said already

sorry.

I have heard of genotype determining treatment and liver biopsy but not pcr.

Did he state what stage you had fibrosis? There are usually 4 stages of

fibrosis and 4 stages of cirrhosis, altho some systems use more stages.

Good luck

alley/

ICQ 12631861

alleypat@... <mailto:alleypat@...>

http://micromagic.net/~alleypat

[Guest guest]

.. what is your genotype? I deleted your letter if you said already

sorry.

I have heard of genotype determining treatment and liver biopsy but not pcr.

Did he state what stage you had fibrosis? There are usually 4 stages of

fibrosis and 4 stages of cirrhosis, altho some systems use more stages.

Good luck

alley/

ICQ 12631861

alleypat@... <mailto:alleypat@...>

http://micromagic.net/~alleypat

[Guest guest]

... thanks for the advice on the metamucil I'll try it out. Usually I

get them after feeling so well for a while and " forgetting " to pace myself

and I end up over doing it (I was always an overdooer).

As for treatment, I need PCR, genotype and liver biopsy first. It's not that

I'm not deciding one way or the other. At the present, I'm just broke. We

went from a $85,000 a year household to zero right after the first. I got

laid off again last fall. Hubby right after christmas. Neither of us had

insurance for several years now. But I've an interview thursday morning and

it may luck out into a perm job with insurance. Cross yer fingers!

With normal LFT's, many gastros are not recomending treatment if also little

to no fibrosis. I don't know yet tho so we'll see. Thankfully the gastro I

have will work with me whatever we feel is best.

alley/

ICQ 12631861

alleypat@... <mailto:alleypat@...>

http://www.mailbonus.com/index.cfm?ref=alleypatflash (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

... thanks for the advice on the metamucil I'll try it out. Usually I

get them after feeling so well for a while and " forgetting " to pace myself

and I end up over doing it (I was always an overdooer).

As for treatment, I need PCR, genotype and liver biopsy first. It's not that

I'm not deciding one way or the other. At the present, I'm just broke. We

went from a $85,000 a year household to zero right after the first. I got

laid off again last fall. Hubby right after christmas. Neither of us had

insurance for several years now. But I've an interview thursday morning and

it may luck out into a perm job with insurance. Cross yer fingers!

With normal LFT's, many gastros are not recomending treatment if also little

to no fibrosis. I don't know yet tho so we'll see. Thankfully the gastro I

have will work with me whatever we feel is best.

alley/

ICQ 12631861

alleypat@... <mailto:alleypat@...>

http://www.mailbonus.com/index.cfm?ref=alleypatflash (DOT) net

[Guest guest]

Yes, it does!

>From: Geoffroy <MIchellecmc@...>

>Reply-candidiasisonelist

>candidiasisonelist

>Subject: To

>Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2000 08:56:00 -0600

>

> I am looking for a Dr. Where is your Dr. located?

>***************************************

>My Dr. is in Glen Ellyn, Illinois. If that works for you, let me know and

>I

>will forward his name and number.

>

>

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Art,

I think is right on, but his minerals are not testing for me as very

good minerals. I tried them and sent them back. He is a little too

commercial for me right now.

I wish I did not feel this way, because I liked him and feel he works hard.

ja

[Guest guest]

Barefoot also says that what draws oxygen

best into the cancer cells is cesium (69). Best

dJR

Dear -

My reply would be to wish you God speed and much success! And I mean that.

I thought it most interesting Warburg discovered the nature of cancer cells

to be plant-like, not human-like. (1931) So, let's see ... what's lethal to

plants but beneficial to humans??? Hydrogen peroxide? Weed-be-gone? (OK,

forget Weed-be-gone. Bad joke)

Anyway, have you ever looked into Microhydrin, colloidal silica coated with

a thick layer of rapidly dispersing H-minus ions, as a helpmate drawing

oxygen into the cells? It's now sold in capsule form by an MLM company. They

have the exclusive on it.

Calcium chemist turned public speaker Bob Barefoot says the interplay

between calcium and magnesium is where it's at when it comes to transporting

nutrients and waste back and forth through the cell wall - sort of like pack

animals.

- Art B

[ ] to Donna K.

Hi Donna -

I know you know most of the following already, but for the sake of some who

may not ....

In reply to your general questions about how do we,

1. Cure cancer that may be present

My approach would be ..... Immediately start with MGN3 and also - slowly

but surely - remove toxins via cleanses, etc. (Too much too fast will make

you feel horrible.) Also, go with the detoxification procedures everyone is

talking about here, especially removing mercury dental fillings and other

heavy metals. All these factors weaken our #1 guardian, the immune system,

and our overworked liver.

I talked to a large health food store owner in Florida and she said IB-6

used to be the top immune system booster sold in the store until MGN3 showed

up. So we have 2 big guns now.

Start with a good digestive system cleaner with all the

soluable/insoluable fibers and so on. Slow but sure. Must have FOS in them,

a food for the beneficial bacteria culture we badly need down there for

digestion and other purposes. Health food stores sell a bunch of these type

products. A superior probiotic culture available by mail is FloraSource,

(1-800-914-6311). A very imporatant overlooked factor in health.

The newer so-called green food powders are amazing all-over body

strengtheners and typically contain spirulina, various sprouts, grasses

(barley, wheat, etc.) and a flock of other powerhouses nutrients like

chlorella, green tea, herbs and so on. All in one product. Noticeably

strengthened me within days. Surprised and pleased with the results!

Multi-enzymes with every meal unless it is all fresh foods! Partially

digested food creates God-awful toxins and both get in the blood stream.

Guess who's job it is to take care of most of it? The immune system and the

liver. Again they get overworked.

Expect to see more and more focus on enzymes in the years ahead. For

instance, an exceptional nutritionist I'm lucky to know told me the reason

people get acid stomach, heartnburn etc. is that there are not enough

enzymes present to digest the food eaten. So the body dumps more acid as a

sort of desperation measure. For acid stomachs simply take digestive

enzymes- NOT Tums. Better yet, always take them before eating. Cooking

destroys the enzymes we need which naturally occur in fresh food. Most break

down at about 115 - 120 degrees F.

2. Prevent cancers

From all I've gathered we can't. That is to say everyone has cancer

cells within them usually taken care of by the immune system very nicely.

When it gets too weak or overwhelmed for whatever reason, cancer gets the

upper hand.

Nevertheless, personal opinion here is that two appoaches are very, very

close to the mark as to the basic cause. I stress personal opinion.

Hulda (one of my favorite people) with her parasite elimination

program has had too much success for too many years to be ignored. See her

book " The Cure For All Cancers " .

And ..... the renewed focus on the relationship between cancer and the

lack of enough alkaline minerals in the diet. Cancer, it seems takes off

when the body gets too acid. These important minerals neutralize damaging

acids in our system. See the book " The Calcium Factor " by scientist and

national public speaker Bob Barefoot (yes, a funny name), and Dr. Carl

Reich, MD. About $17.00. A MUST read. The authors include 300 current

scientific references regarding lack of calcium and cancer. Expect this key

info to take decades to make its way throught the conventional medical

bureaucracy into doctor's offices.

I say renewed focus because w-a-a-a-y back in 1934, a brilliant German

scientist named Dr. Otto Warburg received a Nobel prize for his breakthrough

work in understanding cancer. In short, he created cancer where none had

existed before in all manner of lab and farm animals by simply making their

systems overly acidic. After neutralizing the excess acids, the cancers

reversed by themselves.

No treatment used by the conventional medical system today even takes

into consideration this landmark science. To me this utterly beyond belief.

Bureaucracy ........ home of the devil.

Art B.

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[Guest guest]

doctors deserve flack. alopaths are bad.

[Guest guest]

> > -

> >

> > RE: conventional medicine and its obsession & compulsion with data

as

> > the only measuring stick of truth ......... correct me if I am wrong,

but

> > ........

> >

> > The major mindset of conventional medicine (outside of protecting

the

> > status quo at all costs!) is 100% reliance upon data, statistics

> > and studies

> > galore.

> > With a smile, I can't help but think of what Mark Twain used to say,

> > there are three types of lies: lies, damn lies and statistics.

> >

>

> Yes, statistics can be misinterpreted and misused. But it is patently

silly

> to despise any form of systematic data. Consider the following

statement--

>

> " Comparing the number of convincing testimonials of cure with the number

of

> cancer sufferers known to use alternatives <ie the " data " >, the permanent

> cure rate of metastatic cancer with alternatives may well be less than one

> in a thousand <ie a " statistic " >. "

>

> (NB at least 200,000 patients with advanced cancer use alternatives every

> year in the USA alone - I will explain how this figure is derived, if you

> are interested in learning how useful statistics can be).

>

> You might think: no, I am sure the cure rate is better than this. But,

how

> do you know? You don't have any data. You don't even want to know about

> data.

>

> I've been collecting testimonials for a while now, trying to pin down

> which ones are clearly valid and in relation to which treatment (not easy,

I

> assure you, especially when few use single AM treatments). While I don't

> know whether the above statement is true, it might well be, and I know for

> damned sure that none of you have anything with which to contradict it. I

> am also damned sure that if there are treatments performing better than

> this, you would, like me, want to know which ones they are.

>

> Dare I say that those who support the status quo in the way that you and

> Vince do are almost as harmful to the interests of the cancer patient as

> any of the frauds? You are each in your own small way responsible for

> sustaining farcically low standards and expectations of the information

> provided by those wanting to sell treatments to cancer patients.

>

> How might you go about getting the data to show which alternatives may do

> better? I told you in a previous post. One thing you could do is prevail

> upon someone selling a cure to gather data from their customers. There

is

> already a vast " clinical trial " of alternative cancer treatments involving

> hundreds of thousands of patients going on right now, but NO ONE is

> bothering to look at the results!

>

>

> > Anyway, the results of 100 years of conventional medicine battling

> > cancer is that we now have more of it than ever before. Alarmingly so!

> >

>

> I have pointed out to you that many cancer rates are falling.

>

> > What would you suggest?

> > l the answer

> > ??????????????????

> >

> > And sorry , cannot agree with you at all that

> > conventional medicine

> > should have no responsibility, ethically, legally or otherwise when

> > attacking alternative treatments to prove they are more dangerous than

> > conventional.

> Absolutely! This is not about efficacy. This is about the

> > right to persecute and destroy - and the motives behind it.

> >

>

> Art. Listen carefully. You cannot decide unilaterally that hearsay, the

> unsupported claims of proponents, and unverifiable testimonials are

> sufficient proof of the efficacy of an alternative cancer treatment and

then

> complain when scientists won't take any notice. Trust me. This is REALLY

> how it is, regardless of all your paranoia about conspiracies. There are

> plenty of people like myself prepared to be convinced by solid data. You

> have many MDs onside within AM and they should also be bowing their heads

in

> shame that they ignore the state of the alternative cancer section of AM.

>

> The kind of data (yes, it's all " data " ) that appeals to you has proved

> misleading too many times in the past. The most recent example occurred

in

> Italy-- it had nothing to do with the AMA, the FDA, or any of your

favourite

> co-conspirators. Everyone in Italy was convinced that a Dr Di Bella had a

> magical cure for cancer, but when the Italian government was forced by

> mounting public hysteria to test it out, it couldn't be made to work for

> anyone. And it was a very expensive combination of basically conventional

> drugs including melatonin. Drug companies could (and did while it lasted)

> have made a fortune from it, but it just didn't work.

>

> I might add again that if results of treatment are never gathered and

> published in a meaningful and verifiable way, as did, no

scientist

> will ever know that your treatments even exist, let alone get around to

> thinking of suppressing them.

>

> In a way it doesn't really matter whether your conspiracies exist or not.

> Either way you are on your own, and must start to get together your own

> data, to learn more about the realities of cancer, to raise expectations

of

> your gurus. Do it for your own benefit, but also for the benefit of every

> present and future cancer sufferer. But first you need to be able to see

> the cruelty and stupidity of the present situation when looked at from the

> viewpoint of the cancer patient.

>

> Regards,

>

> Moran

>

>

>

>

>

> > - Art

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________________________________________________

> > ________________________________________________________________________

> >

> > Message: 8

> > Date: Sun, 14 May 2

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

,

What a piece of work you are. You come to a list of people exploring

alternatives because conventional medicine has failed them, and then you

give an unattributed but official-sounding quote that amounts to a death

warrant.

> " Comparing the number of convincing testimonials of cure with the number

of

> cancer sufferers known to use alternatives <ie the " data " >, the permanent

> cure rate of metastatic cancer with alternatives may well be less than one

> in a thousand <ie a " statistic " >. "

Please allow me the pleasure of ripping this crap apart. Let's start

with the word " convincing " . Convincing to who? Convincing to the patient?

Convincing to Quackwatch?

What about this selective use of the word " cure " ? Conventional people

avoid that word like plague [as it is not what they can offer] and then,

after defining away the very existence of a cure, they use it to denigrate

other treatments that are often curative.

And now, " alternatives " is visited on us by the conventional guys. You

certainly are not using one of our definitions. Let me guess. An

alternative is anything that is used or not used after a patient is sent

home to die?

What kind of loose usage is " permanent cure rate " ? Does a cure scare

you that much? If a person dies of other causes 15 years down the road, is

the " cure " discarded as it was not proven to be permanent?

" Metastatic cancer " is a subset of all cancer. Your quote ignores all

successes with local cancers. Are all alternative successes redefined as

being most probably non-metastatic? misdiagnosis? unclear because of prior

conventional therapy? can't seem to contact the patient? or your favorite,

you imply that you reject an alternative treatment as being valid if several

things are used as you can't parse out what is working.

" ...may well be less than... " is a weasel phrase. It does not preclude

a 100% success rate with alternative methods, now does it?

, without begging the question, I can show you how conventional

treatment has never cured a single case of cancer, and any and all real

cures use alternative means. By way of mutual understanding, let's define

" conventional " treatment as the use of usual and approved " treatments " for

whatever purpose. " Alternative " is the use of a variety of natural

nutrients, supplements, procedures, mental states, and perhaps energies such

that the combined use contributes to wellness. Alternative may also include

the avoidance of anything which experience has shown to work against

recovery. It may also include theories that are contrary to the reigning

paradigm. " Unconventional " is the reliance on anything that works:

alternative, suppressed research, electromagnetic, unlabeled use of meds --

a no holds barred approach.

You readily admit that statistics can be deceiving. Garbage in, garbage

out. So I'll do the exact same thing that you do. Any supposed cure of

metastatic cancer that conventional medicine claims, I look at as anecdotal.

It is easy enough to understand all the deaths in conventional cancer

treatment. When you combine treatments, each of which has a long string of

unwanted, life-threatening side effects, you have an additive or even

synergistic effect of toxicities. But is it possible for anyone to be cured

by conventional medicine? I examined all these anecdotal " documented " tales

of conventional cures, and guess what I found? Every single one of them

unwittingly made use of alternative or unconventional techniques!

These techniques often make use of documented synergisms that are

ignored by conventional medicine. It has been documented that 60% of all

hospital patients are deficient in Vitamin D. You'd think that a little

squirt of calcitriol would be de rigueur. (Uh,Oh! Off label!) But say the

cancer patient caught a little sun and with the documented synergism with

the few retinoids that survived Food Services, voila! the patient gets a new

lease on life. It is often even more simple than that. There are

documented cases of spontaneous remission of renal cancer because the

patient stopped using phenylisopropanolamines for the sniffles. So the

person gets a runny nose. Gosh almighty. The mucus is loaded with IFNa

which is active in as small as a 50unit/ml concentration when exposed to

mucosa associated lymphatic tissue (MALT). The IFNa works synergistically

with the retinoids (especially well with squamous).

What of the cancer patients who get infections (nosocomial, of course)

with a fever? You are already pumping so much glucose in the poor

conventional victims that they also have to deal with iatrogenic acidosis.

But what is this -- a Turkish researcher has shown that by raising

temperature and dropping blood pH you can kill every cancer cell in

experimental dog cancers in half an hour.

Just plain starch fillers in hot dogs can be oxidized by the presence

of the nitrate preservatives in the HCl environment of the stomach to yield

glucaric acid. This little bit acts synergistically with many Vitamin A

derivatives to induce differentiation.

What about all the natural stilbenes (eg, resveratrol) that you are

inadvertantly oxidizing to the differentiating substituted aromatic

aldehydes? These are additionally hyperthermia sensitizers. Take away that

extra blanket--someone might get well!

What of the mercury chelators in the celantro in the chili that

unfetter the immune system, or some of the natural sulfur compounds now

being researched that are effective in femtogram quantities? What of the

lycopene in tomato paste on the pizza that works synergistically with the

Vitamin E in the crust? That's documented against prostate cancer.

, I get so weary of your allopathic nonsense with those misleading

statistics that you try to hide behind. But, because I like you I'll do you

a favor. Show me a half dozen best cases of allopathic supposed cancer

cures (or " complete remissions " in your parlance) and we'll do a little

study. I will show you exactly how the waters are muddied. Without

exception I am certain that we can find that these patients were cured in

spite of, not because of, your insane treatments. Have you no shame that

your allopathic " treatments " deprive your victims of important months where

they could benefit from natural healing methods?

I'm sure many on the list are amused that you trot out Di Bella and

to support your point of view. Di Bella's treatments were

allopathic. He used somatostatin and melatonin. These inhibit growth rates

but won't kill cancer. " Inhibiting growth rates " is allopath lingo for,

" You can pay through the nose for a few extra months. " Italians wanted the

basic human right of being able to test and use anything they want in the

treatment of a fatal disease. Three cheers for the people of Italy!

is an allopath who has been disowned by many of the people who

developed the chymotrypsin strategy. Some even believe that it encourages

metastasis. There are better natural cancer strategies (BBIP) that inhibit

chymotrypsin. ' statistics are miserable. Perhaps this is why the

establishment grantors love him. There are much better strategies to knock

out pancreatic cancer, such as metenkephlin. Or better yet, I bet you never

considered DLPA to inhibit catabolism of native endorphins? Use a dollar's

worth of DLPA and kick back with " Duck Soup " and you have synergistic

mu-receptor binding. (So as not to mislead the list, this strategy is not

curative. It slowly induces shrinkage and buys time to sort out an

appropriate immune therapy or cancer vaccine. Pancreatic tumors are often

tough to deal with because of their high stromal pressures. I disagree with

those who consider it necessary to use dexamethasone to deal with this.)

, mister medical scientist, you wouldn't be on this list to find

new treatments to denounce and suppress, would you?

[Guest guest]

Distribution?? Uhh oh i have a feeling she is reffering to this as a

propaganda network. Well like the resistence fighters of the second world war

WE SHALL RISE AND TRIUMPH over our disease and our dumb CDC NIH and other NON

lyme literate doctors!!!!! The people come first not the insurance companies

PROFITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

Art,

Thanks for your advice. I will give hem a try!

Best Wishes

> Hi -

>

> Here's one thought anyway regarding your flax seed oil/ sulfur

post. As

> your intentions seem to be to boost your immune system, I might

suggest two

> things: MGN3 and/or olive leaf extract.

>

> Olive leaf extract is a rising star as a strong, all around

antibiotic.

> Definitely getting more and more publicity these days.

> Claims are made it is even effective against many viruses,

Happily it is

> VERY inexpensive. Swanson Health Products, a fine 30 year old

> catalog company has it and frequently has sales on this and

hundreds of

> other items.

> Call 1-800-437-4148. Not sure whether they have MGN3 yet. Too new.

Probably

> will soon though. Try www.MGN3.net or www.MGN3.com.

>

> - Art

>

>

> [ ] Flax Seed Oil and MSM????

>

>

> > I have been reading alot about using either High lignan flax oil

or

> > fresh ground flax seed with cottage cheese. From waht I can gather

> > from my reading the archives, the cottage cheese is used becuase

of

> > its high sulphur content. I have also seen it mentioned, at least

> > once, that yogurt may also be used for the same reason; sulphur

> > content.

> >

> > Does anyone know if using the yogurt vice using the cottage

cheese is

> > just as effective?

> >

> > Also does anyone know if it would also work as well to substitue

MSM

> > (organic suplhur in pill form) for the cottage cheese or yogurt?

> >

> > I tend to get sinus infections if I eat dairy products and was

> > wondering if I can use MSM as my source of sulphur. I dont want to

> > just try it without knowing if it will be affective and just waste

> > the time an money.

> >

> > Please, anyone who can shed some light on this let me know.

> >

> > m Meadows

> >

> >

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[Guest guest]

Art comments:

> It is hard to believe a realiable death rate statisitc regarding ADRs

> could take such a dramatic plunge. From 1965 to 1990 it was .32% and from

> 1990 to the present it has been .04%? Now that's spectacular progress. I

> wonder who funded the latter studies?

>

> As I understand these types of studies in reading commentaries about

> that JAMA article elsewhere, they included only drugs supposedly

prescribed

> correctly at generally accepted dosages levels. Not included were patients

> given the wrong drugs, or in the wrong dosages, or in the wrong

> combinations.

> Nor did they include, of course, patients who's deaths were

> inadvertently attributed to other causes.

> Nor did they inlcude, of course, deaths deliberately obscured to

protect

> the phsician or the hospital.

Art,

There was a time many years ago that I considered allopathic medicine

for a career. I was lucky (?) enough to have an extreme fast forward in

that direction. The four things that made me decide against it were:

1. The leash laws. The guilds keep their dogs entrained.

2. Clinical medicine is too far behind research medicine.

3. 80-90% of prescription drugs are retardo. I would never use them.

4. The field had strayed too far from nature. I think it was both the

economics and the hubris of synthetic chemistry that conspired against

nature.

I believe the iatrogenic death rate is many, many times higher that

believed. This is simply because of the impoverished medicament choices

that allopaths have in treating their patients.