Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Quite a gloomy post. Thank goodness I'm only the piano player. Donn EMS Leadership It's been my experience that EMS leaders are not revered ... they're lynched! And, the EMS constituency often behaves like swine who kill their own offspring out of fear, suspicion or post partum rage. Those who step up to the EMS leadership " plate " should understand that there are inherent risks. Attempting to change the way EMS behaves, acts, thinks or believes is professionally perilous and most often completely unrewarding. In my EMS lifetime, I have witnessed the " lynching " of many such leaders by a once admiring and appreciative EMS community. There have been many, but the ones that come to mind include: Rocco Morando, Norm Mc Swain, Boyd, Jim Page, Bill Roush, R A. Cowley, Kimball Maull, Don Trunkey and Ken Maddox. One of the few to escape the angry mob and retire gracefully was Leo Schwartz. The common characteristic among these EMS leaders is that they are never satisfied with the status quo; they always push the envelope; they're not concerned with their popularity; and, they always ask " why? " . Their presence on the EMS scene was challenging and invigorating for those of us who were unafraid to question conventional thinking. But for the majority, their presence eventually led to fear, suspicion and rage because they held nothing scientifically or materially sacred. They saw no " givens " or " absolutes " . Eventually the tide of EMS public opinion began to turn against them. As the EMS people carried them on their shoulders through the streets of town heralding their names - they were completely unaware that they were actually being transported to a tall tree on the outskirts of town, from which the EMS industry lynches its' leaders. I have known and interacted with all of the EMS leaders listed above. While they are all proud of their accomplishments, I believe that they would all attest that it just isn't worth the effort and personal sacrifice to attempt to turn 700,000 EMS people into critically thinking, forward looking and progressive creators of change. Whether you're Bledsoe, Gene Gandy, Kathy Parkins, or Donn - you can rest assured that there's a rope waiting at the end of town with your name on it! If EMS history continues to repeat itself, it'll not be a matter of " if " , but " when " . Bob Kellow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Leadership... interesting! But, if you cannot gain the respect of those you wish to lead, how effective can you be as a leader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Donn, It does not come easy. By being a leader... a true leader can take the many different viewpoints and bring the group to work towards them. There is something more to being a leader than a given title or some degree or position... leadership is EARNED not given. And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they are LESS than you. I cannot give you the formula for it, but the 2 top folks in our organization [J. Sneed and Dr. S. Benold] have my respect and are looked upon as great leaders [for our service]. They know how to bring folks together and get them going on the same game plan, but they have NEVER made it appear as if their way was the ONLY way. They are both very open to hearing the other side of the discussion. WilCo is alot smaller than the STATE, but the one that believes in their leadership talent will show it... get the right ones to pitch their objectives and achieve their goal. Good Luck, Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 I wonder if the reason we historically crucify (lynch) our elders isn't due to the method these elders chose to teach us our trade. Perhaps they are responsible for their own demise and set the stage for our seemingly self-limiting trade. They needed medics, so they chose expediency over quality education. We are (or used to be) taught skills by rote memorization in amazingly short periods of time. It was monkey se, monkey do. If you see symptom A, you quickly perform procedure B. If you see symptom C, you immediately push drug D. They verified our " knowledge " with cursory skills exams and multiple-guess tests containing three dumb answers and one obvious one. Later these same mentors came to us saying that there was new evidence proving we were wrong to do this procedure or that, and that we should be doing procedure X when we see symptom A instead. In our blitzkrieg training programs we were never expected to be critical thinkers, so these changes were difficult for us to understand or accept. We didn't want to believe that the experienced care we had been providing for our patients for all these years hadn't been beneficial, or might even have been harmful, so we planted our feet and argued with the very people who taught us our skills in the first place. If enough of us resisted, we managed to march the deposed leader to the edge of town and Bob's proverbial tall tree, and we maintained status quo. A example of this mentality occurred recently when Dr. Bledsoe questioned CISM. He was blasted out of the water by the devotees regardless of the possibility that evidence exists to prove him correct. To paraphrase one post, " I used to respect you, but now you do this! " If he is wrong, prove it. I'm sure he will be mature enough to accept the fact. If he is not wrong, it is you who should have the maturity to accept the facts. EMS is not a cult, it is not a religion. It is para-medicine, and medicine is an evolving science. When are we going to learn that just because we believe something to be real does not make it so? If the research proves something to be wrong, it is probably wrong regardless of our personal experience and anecdotal evidence. If we do not possess the maturity to consider alternate realities we do not have the right to complain when the rest of the healthcare professionals treat us poorly. We cannot continue to worship at the altar of the past if we expect to transcend into the healthcare realities of the future. The deposed leaders Bob mentions tried to tell us this, but we didn't want to listen, so we lynched them instead. Perhaps that is why we remain the (almost) leaderless rabble we are today, and why new, dynamic leaders fear to step up to the plate. When are we going to wake up? Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it. Regards, Donn EMS Leadership It's been my experience that EMS leaders are not revered ... they're lynched! And, the EMS constituency often behaves like swine who kill their own offspring out of fear, suspicion or post partum rage. Those who step up to the EMS leadership " plate " should understand that there are inherent risks. Attempting to change the way EMS behaves, acts, thinks or believes is professionally perilous and most often completely unrewarding. In my EMS lifetime, I have witnessed the " lynching " of many such leaders by a once admiring and appreciative EMS community. There have been many, but the ones that come to mind include: Rocco Morando, Norm Mc Swain, Boyd, Jim Page, Bill Roush, R A. Cowley, Kimball Maull, Don Trunkey and Ken Maddox. One of the few to escape the angry mob and retire gracefully was Leo Schwartz. The common characteristic among these EMS leaders is that they are never satisfied with the status quo; they always push the envelope; they're not concerned with their popularity; and, they always ask " why? " . Their presence on the EMS scene was challenging and invigorating for those of us who were unafraid to question conventional thinking. But for the majority, their presence eventually led to fear, suspicion and rage because they held nothing scientifically or materially sacred. They saw no " givens " or " absolutes " . Eventually the tide of EMS public opinion began to turn against them. As the EMS people carried them on their shoulders through the streets of town heralding their names - they were completely unaware that they were actually being transported to a tall tree on the outskirts of town, from which the EMS industry lynches its' leaders. I have known and interacted with all of the EMS leaders listed above. While they are all proud of their accomplishments, I believe that they would all attest that it just isn't worth the effort and personal sacrifice to attempt to turn 700,000 EMS people into critically thinking, forward looking and progressive creators of change. Whether you're Bledsoe, Gene Gandy, Kathy Parkins, or Donn - you can rest assured that there's a rope waiting at the end of town with your name on it! If EMS history continues to repeat itself, it'll not be a matter of " if " , but " when " . Bob Kellow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Junior, How does one earn your respect? Donn Re: EMS Leadership Leadership... interesting! But, if you cannot gain the respect of those you wish to lead, how effective can you be as a leader? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 I'm not going to send this to the list, again because I don't want to be seen bickering. But your response is so over the edge that I have to respond. So, a leader must first ensure that he does not offend those he might lead, is this what you are saying? When General Patton slapped two men in the field hospital in 1943, was he less of a leader than when he defeated Rommel in the North African desert in 1942? Patton was the single most effective Allied military leader in WW-II, leading a bold armored attack across France and into Germany in 1944/45 and eventually crushing the German forces, yet he physically abused two of his own men just two years before. In his mind he was doing what was best for the WHOLE, regardless of the *feelings* of a couple of individual soldiers. Patton helped win the war. Was he less of a leader because he didn't consider the *feelings* of two slackers? Junior, you are dead wrong in your definition of a leader. A leader first considers the desired outcome, then boldly works to achieve that outcome utilizing all resources available. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Those that choose to drag their feet, questioning the means are the ones that are dragging us down, and the ones slaying the leadership that might be our salvation. Bob is right, everybody that has stepped up to the plate, everyone who might have done us some good has been beaten down by second guessers. Are you a second guesser? I truly don't expect you to even consider this message as having any validity or worth. You have shown me time and again that you have an answer for everything, and that the answers reside where Junior resides - in on County. on County is a tiny little microcosm, very much different from the rest of the state. Your myopia, super-ego and big mouth are doing much damage. I apologize for the venom in this message. I am old, and tired of this mess. EMS is digging its on grave using ego as the shovel, and I am tired of it. Junior, you are not part of the solution, you are the epitome of the problem. Wake up and smell the coffee. The world does not revolve around Junior, and Texas EMS is bigger than on County. Donn Re: EMS Leadership And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they are LESS than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2002 Report Share Posted September 20, 2002 Well, I guess I am going to send it to the list. Sorry, that was unintentional. Donn Re: EMS Leadership And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they are LESS than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead wrong " about their own definition of a leader? This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily posted (which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to eat their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server does NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to kill on a computer. If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything the Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE (those who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that doesn't give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her views. I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement and history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I ask because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " . Re: EMS Leadership > > And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making > them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they > are LESS than you. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Very well said, Doc. I couldn't agree more. (see, Donn, it's not that difficult to agree with someone smarter than you from time to time - give it a try). -- On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 06:51:45 Wiseman wrote: >Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead wrong " >about their own definition of a leader? > >This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this >list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily posted >(which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to eat >their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server does >NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to kill on >a computer. > >If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the >plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything the >Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE (those >who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that doesn't >give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her views. > >I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement and >history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his >paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I ask >because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is >putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " . > > > Re: EMS Leadership >> >> And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making >> them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like >they >> are LESS than you. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Great - another Witch Hunt! , Donn didn't start this thread - I did. Moreover, I haven't seen anything that Donn has posted that suggests that he sees himself as an " EMS leader " . On the contrary, he did state that he was " just the piano player " . But, it's nice to know that you're offended enough to conduct a search of the TDH files. I don't believe that there's a listing for " Leader, Certified Leader or Licensed Leader " . Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand; Ignorance, and prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand. " Witch Hunt " RUSH: Moving Pictures Peart/Lee Wiseman wrote: > Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead > wrong " > about their own definition of a leader? > > This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this > list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily > posted > (which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to > eat > their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server > does > NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to > kill on > a computer. > > If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the > > plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything > the > Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE > (those > who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that > doesn't > give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her > views. > > I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement > and > history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his > paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I > ask > because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is > putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " . > > > Re: EMS Leadership > > > > And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by > making > > them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel > like > they > > are LESS than you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 The Air Force (paraphrased) defines leadership as 'the ability to motivate a group to efficiently achieve the mission'. Efficiently accomplishing the mission requires getting everyone to buy into your ideas; persuasion, leading by example, and making them feel pride in the successful solution. Do you have to be the designated leader, the boss, the big kahuna, to do this? No. 'Leadership is action, not the position'. I have seen many effective leaders who weren't de jure leaders, but were considered the " go to people " - the de facto leaders, when a project was stuck in dead low gear. These are the people you need to foster, nurture, and mentor. You also want to be aware of, and redirect, the people I allude to in T.S. Eliot's quote below. " Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. " - T.S. Eliot, _The_Cocktail_Party_ Larry , RN NREMTP Nurse, Teacher, Medic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Hey Donn, I never said the world revolved around any of us... I was illustrating that my current leaders are doing things on a smaller scale. Nothing more and nothing less meant by that. The offending part... I use the Fords' as the example... I think they are seeing a result of pushing so many of their top executives from the past. I am NOT professing to be an expert on being a leader, but if you cannot win my trust and respect [or the trust and respect of those you wish to lead], how are you gonna lead? How are you gonna get them to fall into " line " with your ideals? That is all that was meant in answering your question. Junior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, was correct to jump on me for that post. I've emailed him privately and apologized, both to him and to WCEMS. I owe the list an apology as well. My language was much too strong for posting in a public forum. For clarification, that message was intended for one individual and was not intended to be part of the thread on this list. Junior and I have been messaging back and forth for several weeks now on this and other subjects, so I wrote the message from the basis of familiarity. and the others who have chapped my hide should try to understand that this was supposed to be a conversation between two people familiar with each other's opinions as part of a continuing debate. As I told in my private apology, I am not a leader, and don't want to be a leader. I am obviously not smart enough to be a leader. But I am involved. Regarding 's question about my certification and EMS involvement, the TDH database indeed indicates that I finally managed to earn LP - on September 1st, my 51st birthday. Now, maybe I should go fishing. Regards, Donn Re: EMS Leadership Great - another Witch Hunt! , Donn didn't start this thread - I did. Moreover, I haven't seen anything that Donn has posted that suggests that he sees himself as an " EMS leader " . On the contrary, he did state that he was " just the piano player " . But, it's nice to know that you're offended enough to conduct a search of the TDH files. I don't believe that there's a listing for " Leader, Certified Leader or Licensed Leader " . Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand; Ignorance, and prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand. " Witch Hunt " RUSH: Moving Pictures Peart/Lee Wiseman wrote: > Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead > wrong " > about their own definition of a leader? > > This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this > list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily > posted > (which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to > eat > their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server > does > NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to > kill on > a computer. > > If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the > > plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything > the > Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE > (those > who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that > doesn't > give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her > views. > > I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement > and > history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his > paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I > ask > because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is > putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " . > > > Re: EMS Leadership > > > > And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by > making > > them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel > like > they > > are LESS than you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Leadership, hmmmm. Yup it needs to be earned. It can be granted due to position, but if the person in that position doesn't know, can't learn, won't learn, how to lead then they fail. One of the few things that I truely learned in my 15 years in the Marines (1977 - 1992) was about leadership. It didn't matter if you were a Private (E-1), a Gunnery Sergeant (E-7) or an Officer, if you were a leader, the troops would follow. Of course being a SSgt that the platoon would follow, with a 1st Lt Platoon Commander who couldn't lead and wouldn't/couldn't learn, made life difficult. This also happens in EMS. There are Paramedics and LP's that I would follow anywhere and work any situation with and there are those I wouldn't want to treat a dead cow. Part of leadership is followership, you can't lead if you can't follow. EMS is full of Alphas, so is the Marine Corps. Unfortunately EMS, in my experience, is pulling a poor second in the leadership department. So how do you deal with management/supervisors/senior Paramedics/LP's that can't lead ? How do you teach them to follow ? Micheal -- Micheal Mc Evoy, FF/NREMT-B, WFR Bertram Community EMS Bertram Volunteer Fire Department Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2002 Report Share Posted September 21, 2002 Bob, Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51 pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76 they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he could do to promulgate heart health. Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list. A. Duane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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