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Quite a gloomy post. Thank goodness I'm only the piano player.

Donn

EMS Leadership

It's been my experience that EMS leaders are not revered ... they're

lynched! And, the EMS constituency often behaves like swine who kill

their own offspring out of fear, suspicion or post partum rage.

Those who step up to the EMS leadership " plate " should understand that

there are inherent risks. Attempting to change the way EMS behaves,

acts, thinks or believes is professionally perilous and most often

completely unrewarding. In my EMS lifetime, I have witnessed the

" lynching " of many such leaders by a once admiring and appreciative EMS

community. There have been many, but the ones that come to mind include:

Rocco Morando, Norm Mc Swain, Boyd, Jim Page, Bill Roush, R A.

Cowley, Kimball Maull, Don Trunkey and Ken Maddox. One of the few to

escape the angry mob and retire gracefully was Leo Schwartz.

The common characteristic among these EMS leaders is that they are never

satisfied with the status quo; they always push the envelope; they're

not concerned with their popularity; and, they always ask " why? " . Their

presence on the EMS scene was challenging and invigorating for those of

us who were unafraid to question conventional thinking. But for the

majority, their presence eventually led to fear, suspicion and rage

because they held nothing scientifically or materially sacred. They saw

no " givens " or " absolutes " .

Eventually the tide of EMS public opinion began to turn against them. As

the EMS people carried them on their shoulders through the streets of

town heralding their names - they were completely unaware that they were

actually being transported to a tall tree on the outskirts of town, from

which the EMS industry lynches its' leaders.

I have known and interacted with all of the EMS leaders listed above.

While they are all proud of their accomplishments, I believe that they

would all attest that it just isn't worth the effort and personal

sacrifice to attempt to turn 700,000 EMS people into critically

thinking, forward looking and progressive creators of change.

Whether you're Bledsoe, Gene Gandy, Kathy Parkins,

or Donn - you can rest assured that there's a rope waiting at the

end of town with your name on it! If EMS history continues to repeat

itself, it'll not be a matter of " if " , but " when " .

Bob Kellow

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Leadership... interesting!

But, if you cannot gain the respect of those you wish to lead, how effective

can you be as a leader?

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Donn,

It does not come easy.

By being a leader... a true leader can take the many different viewpoints and

bring the group to work towards them. There is something more to being a

leader than a given title or some degree or position... leadership is EARNED

not given.

And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making

them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they

are LESS than you.

I cannot give you the formula for it, but the 2 top folks in our organization

[J. Sneed and Dr. S. Benold] have my respect and are looked upon as great

leaders [for our service]. They know how to bring folks together and get them

going on the same game plan, but they have NEVER made it appear as if their

way was the ONLY way. They are both very open to hearing the other side of

the discussion.

WilCo is alot smaller than the STATE, but the one that believes in their

leadership talent will show it... get the right ones to pitch their

objectives and achieve their goal.

Good Luck,

Junior

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I wonder if the reason we historically crucify (lynch) our elders isn't due

to the method these elders chose to teach us our trade. Perhaps they are

responsible for their own demise and set the stage for our seemingly

self-limiting trade.

They needed medics, so they chose expediency over quality education. We are

(or used to be) taught skills by rote memorization in amazingly short

periods of time. It was monkey se, monkey do. If you see symptom A, you

quickly perform procedure B. If you see symptom C, you immediately push drug

D. They verified our " knowledge " with cursory skills exams and

multiple-guess tests containing three dumb answers and one obvious one.

Later these same mentors came to us saying that there was new evidence

proving we were wrong to do this procedure or that, and that we should be

doing procedure X when we see symptom A instead. In our blitzkrieg training

programs we were never expected to be critical thinkers, so these changes

were difficult for us to understand or accept. We didn't want to believe

that the experienced care we had been providing for our patients for all

these years hadn't been beneficial, or might even have been harmful, so we

planted our feet and argued with the very people who taught us our skills in

the first place. If enough of us resisted, we managed to march the deposed

leader to the edge of town and Bob's proverbial tall tree, and we maintained

status quo.

A example of this mentality occurred recently when Dr. Bledsoe questioned

CISM. He was blasted out of the water by the devotees regardless of

the possibility that evidence exists to prove him correct. To paraphrase one

post, " I used to respect you, but now you do this! " If he is wrong, prove

it. I'm sure he will be mature enough to accept the fact. If he is not

wrong, it is you who should have the maturity to accept the facts. EMS is

not a cult, it is not a religion. It is para-medicine, and medicine is an

evolving science. When are we going to learn that just because we believe

something to be real does not make it so? If the research proves something

to be wrong, it is probably wrong regardless of our personal experience and

anecdotal evidence. If we do not possess the maturity to consider alternate

realities we do not have the right to complain when the rest of the

healthcare professionals treat us poorly. We cannot continue to worship at

the altar of the past if we expect to transcend into the healthcare

realities of the future.

The deposed leaders Bob mentions tried to tell us this, but we didn't want

to listen, so we lynched them instead. Perhaps that is why we remain the

(almost) leaderless rabble we are today, and why new, dynamic leaders fear

to step up to the plate. When are we going to wake up? Those who do not

remember the past are doomed to repeat it.

Regards,

Donn

EMS Leadership

It's been my experience that EMS leaders are not revered ... they're

lynched! And, the EMS constituency often behaves like swine who kill

their own offspring out of fear, suspicion or post partum rage.

Those who step up to the EMS leadership " plate " should understand that

there are inherent risks. Attempting to change the way EMS behaves,

acts, thinks or believes is professionally perilous and most often

completely unrewarding. In my EMS lifetime, I have witnessed the

" lynching " of many such leaders by a once admiring and appreciative EMS

community. There have been many, but the ones that come to mind include:

Rocco Morando, Norm Mc Swain, Boyd, Jim Page, Bill Roush, R A.

Cowley, Kimball Maull, Don Trunkey and Ken Maddox. One of the few to

escape the angry mob and retire gracefully was Leo Schwartz.

The common characteristic among these EMS leaders is that they are never

satisfied with the status quo; they always push the envelope; they're

not concerned with their popularity; and, they always ask " why? " . Their

presence on the EMS scene was challenging and invigorating for those of

us who were unafraid to question conventional thinking. But for the

majority, their presence eventually led to fear, suspicion and rage

because they held nothing scientifically or materially sacred. They saw

no " givens " or " absolutes " .

Eventually the tide of EMS public opinion began to turn against them. As

the EMS people carried them on their shoulders through the streets of

town heralding their names - they were completely unaware that they were

actually being transported to a tall tree on the outskirts of town, from

which the EMS industry lynches its' leaders.

I have known and interacted with all of the EMS leaders listed above.

While they are all proud of their accomplishments, I believe that they

would all attest that it just isn't worth the effort and personal

sacrifice to attempt to turn 700,000 EMS people into critically

thinking, forward looking and progressive creators of change.

Whether you're Bledsoe, Gene Gandy, Kathy Parkins,

or Donn - you can rest assured that there's a rope waiting at the

end of town with your name on it! If EMS history continues to repeat

itself, it'll not be a matter of " if " , but " when " .

Bob Kellow

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Junior,

How does one earn your respect?

Donn

Re: EMS Leadership

Leadership... interesting!

But, if you cannot gain the respect of those you wish to lead, how effective

can you be as a leader?

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I'm not going to send this to the list, again because I don't want to be

seen bickering. But your response is so over the edge that I have to

respond.

So, a leader must first ensure that he does not offend those he might lead,

is this what you are saying? When General Patton slapped two men in

the field hospital in 1943, was he less of a leader than when he defeated

Rommel in the North African desert in 1942? Patton was the single most

effective Allied military leader in WW-II, leading a bold armored attack

across France and into Germany in 1944/45 and eventually crushing the German

forces, yet he physically abused two of his own men just two years before.

In his mind he was doing what was best for the WHOLE, regardless of the

*feelings* of a couple of individual soldiers. Patton helped win the war.

Was he less of a leader because he didn't consider the *feelings* of two

slackers?

Junior, you are dead wrong in your definition of a leader. A leader first

considers the desired outcome, then boldly works to achieve that outcome

utilizing all resources available. The whole is greater than the sum of its

parts. Those that choose to drag their feet, questioning the means are the

ones that are dragging us down, and the ones slaying the leadership that

might be our salvation. Bob is right, everybody that has stepped up to the

plate, everyone who might have done us some good has been beaten down by

second guessers. Are you a second guesser?

I truly don't expect you to even consider this message as having any

validity or worth. You have shown me time and again that you have an answer

for everything, and that the answers reside where Junior resides - in

on County. on County is a tiny little microcosm, very much

different from the rest of the state. Your myopia, super-ego and big mouth

are doing much damage.

I apologize for the venom in this message. I am old, and tired of this mess.

EMS is digging its on grave using ego as the shovel, and I am tired of it.

Junior, you are not part of the solution, you are the epitome of the

problem. Wake up and smell the coffee. The world does not revolve around

Junior, and Texas EMS is bigger than on County.

Donn

Re: EMS Leadership

And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making

them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they

are LESS than you.

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Well, I guess I am going to send it to the list. Sorry, that was

unintentional.

Donn

Re: EMS Leadership

And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making

them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like they

are LESS than you.

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Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead wrong "

about their own definition of a leader?

This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this

list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily posted

(which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to eat

their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server does

NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to kill on

a computer.

If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the

plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything the

Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE (those

who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that doesn't

give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her views.

I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement and

history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his

paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I ask

because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is

putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " .

Re: EMS Leadership

>

> And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making

> them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like

they

> are LESS than you.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Very well said, Doc. I couldn't agree more. (see, Donn, it's not that

difficult to agree with someone smarter than you from time to time - give it a

try).

--

On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 06:51:45

Wiseman wrote:

>Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead wrong "

>about their own definition of a leader?

>

>This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this

>list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily posted

>(which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to eat

>their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server does

>NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to kill on

>a computer.

>

>If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the

>plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything the

>Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE (those

>who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that doesn't

>give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her views.

>

>I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement and

>history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his

>paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I ask

>because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is

>putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " .

>

>

> Re: EMS Leadership

>>

>> And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by making

>> them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel like

>they

>> are LESS than you.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

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Great - another Witch Hunt!

, Donn didn't start this thread - I did. Moreover, I haven't seen

anything that Donn has posted that suggests that he sees himself as an

" EMS leader " . On the contrary, he did state that he was " just the piano

player " . But, it's nice to know that you're offended enough to conduct a

search of the TDH files. I don't believe that there's a listing for

" Leader, Certified Leader or Licensed Leader " .

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand;

Ignorance, and prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand.

" Witch Hunt "

RUSH:

Moving Pictures

Peart/Lee

Wiseman wrote:

> Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead

> wrong "

> about their own definition of a leader?

>

> This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this

> list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily

> posted

> (which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to

> eat

> their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server

> does

> NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to

> kill on

> a computer.

>

> If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the

>

> plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything

> the

> Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE

> (those

> who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that

> doesn't

> give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her

> views.

>

> I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement

> and

> history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his

> paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I

> ask

> because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is

> putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " .

>

>

> Re: EMS Leadership

> >

> > And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by

> making

> > them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel

> like

> they

> > are LESS than you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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The Air Force (paraphrased) defines leadership as 'the ability to

motivate a group to efficiently achieve the mission'. Efficiently

accomplishing the mission requires getting everyone to buy into your

ideas; persuasion, leading by example, and making them feel pride in the

successful solution.

Do you have to be the designated leader, the boss, the big kahuna, to do

this?

No. 'Leadership is action, not the position'. I have seen many effective

leaders who weren't de jure leaders, but were considered the " go to

people " - the de facto leaders, when a project was stuck in dead low gear.

These are the people you need to foster, nurture, and mentor.

You also want to be aware of, and redirect, the people I allude to in

T.S. Eliot's quote below.

" Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to

feel important. "

- T.S. Eliot, _The_Cocktail_Party_

Larry , RN NREMTP

Nurse, Teacher, Medic

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Hey Donn,

I never said the world revolved around any of us... I was illustrating that

my current leaders are doing things on a smaller scale. Nothing more and

nothing less meant by that.

The offending part... I use the Fords' as the example... I think they are

seeing a result of pushing so many of their top executives from the past.

I am NOT professing to be an expert on being a leader, but if you cannot win

my trust and respect [or the trust and respect of those you wish to lead],

how are you gonna lead? How are you gonna get them to fall into " line " with

your ideals?

That is all that was meant in answering your question.

Junior

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Bob,

was correct to jump on me for that post. I've emailed him privately

and apologized, both to him and to WCEMS. I owe the list an apology as well.

My language was much too strong for posting in a public forum.

For clarification, that message was intended for one individual and was not

intended to be part of the thread on this list. Junior and I have been

messaging back and forth for several weeks now on this and other subjects,

so I wrote the message from the basis of familiarity. and the others

who have chapped my hide should try to understand that this was supposed to

be a conversation between two people familiar with each other's opinions as

part of a continuing debate.

As I told in my private apology, I am not a leader, and don't want to

be a leader. I am obviously not smart enough to be a leader. But I am

involved.

Regarding 's question about my certification and EMS involvement, the

TDH database indeed indicates that I finally managed to earn LP - on

September 1st, my 51st birthday.

Now, maybe I should go fishing.

Regards,

Donn

Re: EMS Leadership

Great - another Witch Hunt!

, Donn didn't start this thread - I did. Moreover, I haven't seen

anything that Donn has posted that suggests that he sees himself as an

" EMS leader " . On the contrary, he did state that he was " just the piano

player " . But, it's nice to know that you're offended enough to conduct a

search of the TDH files. I don't believe that there's a listing for

" Leader, Certified Leader or Licensed Leader " .

Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand;

Ignorance, and prejudice, and fear walk hand in hand.

" Witch Hunt "

RUSH:

Moving Pictures

Peart/Lee

Wiseman wrote:

> Somebody, besides Donn, please tell me how somebody can be " dead

> wrong "

> about their own definition of a leader?

>

> This thread that Donn is heading up is exactly the problem with this

> list-server that Andy Foote already addressed. The 10 that are daily

> posted

> (which I love to read and interject from time to time) are quick to

> eat

> their own! Just because you post every 20 minutes on the list-server

> does

> NOT make you a leader in EMS, it only means you have lots of time to

> kill on

> a computer.

>

> If this post by Donn to Junior is what he considers stepping up to the

>

> plate, then he must be in the wrong game. I'm not defending anything

> the

> Junior posted, he is entitled to his opinion from where he sits, WE

> (those

> who read this) are entitled to our opinion as well, however that

> doesn't

> give any of us the right to publicly criticize a peer for his/her

> views.

>

> I am curious though, because I don't know, what is Donn's involvement

> and

> history with EMS? In a search of records I only find he just got his

> paramedic and is an instructor. Does he have field experience too? I

> ask

> because I would like to know something about someone who regularly is

> putting his thoughts out here as an " EMS Leader " .

>

>

> Re: EMS Leadership

> >

> > And, I can tell you this... you don't gain the respect of people by

> making

> > them feel like you are RIGHT about everything or making them feel

> like

> they

> > are LESS than you.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Leadership, hmmmm.

Yup it needs to be earned. It can be granted due to position, but if the

person in that position doesn't know, can't learn, won't learn, how to lead

then they fail.

One of the few things that I truely learned in my 15 years in the Marines

(1977 - 1992) was about leadership. It didn't matter if you were a Private

(E-1), a Gunnery Sergeant (E-7) or an Officer, if you were a leader, the

troops would follow. Of course being a SSgt that the platoon would follow,

with a 1st Lt Platoon Commander who couldn't lead and wouldn't/couldn't

learn, made life difficult.

This also happens in EMS. There are Paramedics and LP's that I would follow

anywhere and work any situation with and there are those I wouldn't want to

treat a dead cow.

Part of leadership is followership, you can't lead if you can't follow.

EMS is full of Alphas, so is the Marine Corps. Unfortunately EMS, in my

experience, is pulling a poor second in the leadership department.

So how do you deal with management/supervisors/senior Paramedics/LP's that

can't lead ? How do you teach them to follow ?

Micheal

--

Micheal Mc Evoy, FF/NREMT-B, WFR

Bertram Community EMS

Bertram Volunteer Fire Department

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Guest guest

Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Guest guest

Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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Guest guest

Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

Share this post


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Guest guest

Bob,

Your post are always, on point, authoritative and certainly expressed with

the perspective of a veteran of the EMS conquest for recognition. Seems like

your involvement goes back at least to the late 60's and early 70's with the

first EMT training in Fort Worth. As I reviewed your list of pioneers, it

struck me that two old friends were missing. Ron who helped develop

the first course in LA County, actually taught at Freedman (hope I

spelled it right) Hospital in Anaheim. It was the hospital that Rescue 51

pulled into on the show. Back when and I became paramedics back in 76

they had no local internship sites, so we flew to LA for rotations, and I

still have a set of the first Paramedic training manuals from LA. The class

was half LA County FD, and half Anaheim FD. Then there was my old friend

Fogarty, pioneer in vascular everything, who decided it was easier to

grow grapes and sell them by the bottle than just about anything else he

could do to promulgate heart health.

Thanks for your always insightful, on point and to the heart commentary. I'm

glad our friendship goes so far back, and that you are sharing your main

frame of EMS knowledge with the newest generation of folks capable of making

a difference in the future of this State, and the wider span of this list.

A. Duane

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