Re: The point

June 23, 2000

Hello Jen

No, I wasnt trying to pick a fight, I genuinely didnt understand what

you meant. In my experience, ppl rarely air views endorsing illegal

drug use (the marijuana you referred to) as a means of coping unless

they do so ironically. Also, in my experience, ppl even more rarely do

so indicating parity with alcohol use (since alcohol is legal, they

usually say that the particular illegal drug has more favorable

qualities, usually pot), and even more rarely parity with prescription

drug use (which they are often strongly opposed to). Typically,

comments like these are nearly always used to indicate disapproval of

any drug use, and especially so on a list like this where there is a

likelihood that members may have had problems with excessive drug use.

I am dismayed almost beyond annoyance to see how prescription drugs

are so frequently treated as being in no way different from

recreational drugs, often in the manner as if the reader is stupid

if not immediately understanding this supposed unprejudiced wisdom,

when in reality the differences are so numerous that I hardly know

where to start in saying them, and the prejudices are in reality

against responsible med use to the point where a person killing

themself with alcohol or another drug will not countenance taking a

prescription drug that could help them stop. It actually suffices me

to say here that in reality the differences between just *prescribed*

drugs are so vast that it is in fact ridiculous to talk abt even them

completely collectively, and the fact that ppl do so is itself

evidence that ppl's views abt drugs are almost entirely socially

constructed around how drugs are obtained and used, and not the actual

properties of the drugs themselves.

So, my impression was that your comment was an ironic " a drug is a

drug " statement meant to indicate that abstinence from everything is

desirable, rather than an endorsement of controlled use of something,

and I still am not sure which of the two it is, which is why I have

asked (and would still like to know).

Pete

> Well Pete

> the point is we all need a little help relaxing sometime. Are you

truing to

> pick a fight with me now? How hard was that to understand?

> Jen

June 24, 2000

" ppl's views abt drugs are almost entirely socially

constructed around how drugs "

-- Pete, I agree with this (broadly), but the sense in which I find it true

does not, I hope, pass me off as a conventional " cultural materialist " ,

Yours,

.

>From: watts_pete@...

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeegroups

>Subject: Re: The point

>Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 02:37:08 -0000

>

>Hello Jen

>

>No, I wasnt trying to pick a fight, I genuinely didnt understand what

>you meant. In my experience, ppl rarely air views endorsing illegal

>drug use (the marijuana you referred to) as a means of coping unless

>they do so ironically. Also, in my experience, ppl even more rarely do

>so indicating parity with alcohol use (since alcohol is legal, they

>usually say that the particular illegal drug has more favorable

>qualities, usually pot), and even more rarely parity with prescription

>drug use (which they are often strongly opposed to). Typically,

>comments like these are nearly always used to indicate disapproval of

>any drug use, and especially so on a list like this where there is a

>likelihood that members may have had problems with excessive drug use.

>

>I am dismayed almost beyond annoyance to see how prescription drugs

>are so frequently treated as being in no way different from

>recreational drugs, often in the manner as if the reader is stupid

>if not immediately understanding this supposed unprejudiced wisdom,

>when in reality the differences are so numerous that I hardly know

>where to start in saying them, and the prejudices are in reality

>against responsible med use to the point where a person killing

>themself with alcohol or another drug will not countenance taking a

>prescription drug that could help them stop. It actually suffices me

>to say here that in reality the differences between just *prescribed*

>drugs are so vast that it is in fact ridiculous to talk abt even them

>completely collectively, and the fact that ppl do so is itself

>evidence that ppl's views abt drugs are almost entirely socially

>constructed around how drugs are obtained and used, and not the actual

>properties of the drugs themselves.

>

>So, my impression was that your comment was an ironic " a drug is a

>drug " statement meant to indicate that abstinence from everything is

>desirable, rather than an endorsement of controlled use of something,

>and I still am not sure which of the two it is, which is why I have

>asked (and would still like to know).

>

>Pete

>

> > Well Pete

> > the point is we all need a little help relaxing sometime. Are you

>truing to

> > pick a fight with me now? How hard was that to understand?

> > Jen

>

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June 24, 2000

Hi Pete:

A bit " off the wall " but I enjoyed my bike trip in the UK! The British

people were very friendly and hospitable and I learned more about the

English culture. I particularly enjoyed the English pastry and pies!

Yummm! My cycling took me from London on train to York where I spent the

night and left in the morning traveling south to Selby then West to

Barnsley>Doncaster>Warrington>Manchester>Liverpool> then South to >

Witchurch> Shrewsbury> Hereford> Cardiff, Wales. After cylcing to Bristol

and the Severn, I took the train back again to London. WOW, what a trip! I

felt tempted to patronize the wonderful pubs (especially on Mathew Street in

Liverpool) but my internal voice kicked in telling me it was not a good idea

since I was on a bike and with a rather short travel itinerary. Besides, I

did not want to go home in a box or straight jacket or both! Perhaps next

time. The trip was solo as well. The only problem I had aside from getting

lost in London several times was the theft of my bike which was insured.

Been shopping for new bike now but not at Harrods! Good to hear from you my

friend!

Cheers

Re: The point

> Hello Jen

>

> No, I wasnt trying to pick a fight, I genuinely didnt understand what

> you meant. In my experience, ppl rarely air views endorsing illegal

> drug use (the marijuana you referred to) as a means of coping unless

> they do so ironically. Also, in my experience, ppl even more rarely do

> so indicating parity with alcohol use (since alcohol is legal, they

> usually say that the particular illegal drug has more favorable

> qualities, usually pot), and even more rarely parity with prescription

> drug use (which they are often strongly opposed to). Typically,

> comments like these are nearly always used to indicate disapproval of

> any drug use, and especially so on a list like this where there is a

> likelihood that members may have had problems with excessive drug use.

>

> I am dismayed almost beyond annoyance to see how prescription drugs

> are so frequently treated as being in no way different from

> recreational drugs, often in the manner as if the reader is stupid

> if not immediately understanding this supposed unprejudiced wisdom,

> when in reality the differences are so numerous that I hardly know

> where to start in saying them, and the prejudices are in reality

> against responsible med use to the point where a person killing

> themself with alcohol or another drug will not countenance taking a

> prescription drug that could help them stop. It actually suffices me

> to say here that in reality the differences between just *prescribed*

> drugs are so vast that it is in fact ridiculous to talk abt even them

> completely collectively, and the fact that ppl do so is itself

> evidence that ppl's views abt drugs are almost entirely socially

> constructed around how drugs are obtained and used, and not the actual

> properties of the drugs themselves.

>

> So, my impression was that your comment was an ironic " a drug is a

> drug " statement meant to indicate that abstinence from everything is

> desirable, rather than an endorsement of controlled use of something,

> and I still am not sure which of the two it is, which is why I have

> asked (and would still like to know).

>

> Pete

>

> > Well Pete

> > the point is we all need a little help relaxing sometime. Are you

> truing to

> > pick a fight with me now? How hard was that to understand?

> > Jen

>

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>

June 24, 2000

At 02:37 AM 6/24/00 -0000, watts_pete@... wrote:

>Hello Jen

>

>No, I wasnt trying to pick a fight, I genuinely didnt understand what

>you meant.

I was a little surprised at this myself, even though I'd seen the

view in others, and vaguely remember having it myself in my last

years of drinking (that one can't relax without chemical help).

Here's the message, subject name " Re: new subscriber " , that originally

prompted Pete's response, though I can't find an earlier message that this

one refers to:

At 07:30 PM 6/22/00 EDT, javajenv@... wrote:

>Its called life. Everybody needs a liitle something to take the edge off.

>Antidepressants, valium. a few beers weed.....I guess you get the point

Back to quoting Pete:

>In my experience, ppl rarely air views endorsing illegal