Re: Sign language

August 20, 2005

,

Is Carmen signing back to you yet? Or is she just watching at this point? If

she's not yet signing back to you, I wouldn't worry about it too much--it just

may take her a while to make the connection that the signs actually mean

something. We've been signing with our daughter now for a couple years (just

basic signs), and she's just now getting to a point where she's purposefully

using some signs back to us to communicate.

Does Carmen like videos? They are some good signing videos out there. The

first one we bought was Talking Hands, when she was around a year old. It

has both adults and kids in it who say and sign basic words. loved it!

She's kind of outgrown that one now, though. The Signing Time videos are really

good. The first set (Volumes 1-3) are good to start out with--they have more

basic words and are a little slower paced. really likes the second set

(Volumes 4-6) better now, though--faster paced, more colorful, lots of music and

singing. She will mimic a lot of the signs as she watches them, particularly in

the songs.

Do you have a good sign dictionary? We're always consulting ours to look up the

signs for new things.

Lastly, I'd say any basic sign class would be good, although you might inquire

to see what's covered in it before you sign up. You may find that some of the

classes, like maybe the one for parents and babies, might be too simple for you.

It may be covering mostly words that you've already been doing, if you've been

signing with Carmen for a while. Is there a school for the deaf near you? They

usually offer a nice progression of sign courses--Basic I, II, III, Intermediate

I, II, III, etc. Community colleges also usually offer this type of

progression.

Good luck! It can be a slow road, but it's fun and so neat to see when it

finally starts to " click " for your child!

, mom to (3 1/2)

__________________________________________________

August 20, 2005

Ditto for us and it has worked out very very well.

I started with a sign vocabulary with when he was a year old because

of his tracheotomy. He quickly developed an easily measurable vocabulary of

300 + words.

was identified with severe hearing loss at age three, and tests at

55-65 db aided (age 3)

We started immersing in ASL and SEE from that moment forward

His classroom used total communication.

We began to see expressive language and environmental sound identification

regularly in two years (age 5)

We began to notice a preference for communicating in voice rather than sign

at age 7 - also demonstrated fluent reading - reading for pleasure.

We noticed a definite fluent use of English word order in his writing by

fourth grade/age 9. I am sure the preference was always there, but the

school work really made it evident.

signs fluently (relies on his ASL translator at school for

clarification. He is an honors student on the Principal's Honor Roll fully

mainstreamed at a regular ed magnet High School)

communicates more easily with someone who is deaf because his oral

articulation/intelligibility does not become an issue.

Smiles!

yuka

>

> Weir wrote:

>

> > Martha,

> > We use ASL signs in English Word Order, because Kennedy is oral

> > (expressively) and also for the reading aspect. Many deaf teens and

> > older folks I've talked to said it's easy for them to switch to ASL

> > when they get around other deaf people. We sign & speak

> > simultaneously most of the time with Kennedy. It's been MOST helpful.

> >

August 20, 2005

I know that many families choose to stick with ASL because there is a lot out

there in terms of support, classes, videos, and just the deaf culture in

general. We have decided to Sign Exact English with Maya. That way we can sign

everything we say to her. It is a lot of work, but any communication technique

is. We choose this method because we want Maya to be a good reader and writer.

Maya's vision is great, and she is already picking up a few signs. We have met

a number of SEE signing children who read well above their grade level, and we

are hoping for Maya to be exposed to the English language (since she is deaf,

and at this time does not have ampification because she does not have hearing

nerves). As she grows up we hope to help her learn ASL too, since that is the

language of the deaf community. I really believe that whatever you are excited

about as parents, will be the best choice for your child. I just thought I

would let you know that SEE sign is another option.

Marty, Mom to Maya, 13 months

ichelle wrote:

Hi all, I've been signing with Carmen for basic things like " eat " ,

etc. for a while, but I think I need to go to the next step of

training. She can hear in both ears but has mild loss on the

right/moderate on the left, and she can't speak due to her trach at

this time. I want her to be able to communicate with us. She's 14

months old--there are classes available through the community ed for

American sign language, and there is a baby and parent sign language

class for hearing children where both parent and baby go. Any

suggestions for the best option for me? Thanks for your ideas!

Membership of this email support groups does not constitute membership in the

CHARGE Syndrome Foundation or CHARGE Syndrome Canada.

For information about the CHARGE Syndrome

Foundation or to become a member (and get the newsletter),

please contact marion@... or visit

the web site at http://www.chargesyndrome.org. For CHARGE Syndrome Canada

information and membership, please visit http://www.chargesyndrome.ca, or email

info@....

8th International

CHARGE Syndrome Conference, July, 2007. Information will be available at

www.chargesyndrome.org or by calling 1-.

August 20, 2005

Martha,

We use ASL signs in English Word Order, because Kennedy is oral (expressively)

and also for the reading aspect. Many deaf teens and older folks I've talked to

said it's easy for them to switch to ASL when they get around other deaf people.

We sign & speak simultaneously most of the time with Kennedy. It's been MOST

helpful.

Home: lisaweir@...

Work: lisa.weir@...

Phone:

Web: http://ca.geocities.com/weirfamilyrogers

August 20, 2005

-

What is Kennedy's corrected hearing and does she talk??

Michele W

Weir wrote:

> Martha,

> We use ASL signs in English Word Order, because Kennedy is oral

> (expressively) and also for the reading aspect. Many deaf teens and

> older folks I've talked to said it's easy for them to switch to ASL

> when they get around other deaf people. We sign & speak

> simultaneously most of the time with Kennedy. It's been MOST helpful.

>

August 21, 2005

Michele,

Aided, she gets up around 30-35dB, unaided she's about 65 in her left and 100 in

her right (I think, without checking -- severe to profound anyway). Yes, she

does talk, almost exclusively expressively; receptively, she still looks for the

visual cue especially if there's background noise, etc. See

http://www.geocities.com/kawfolks/P1050152.MOV (this is a really short, not that

GREAT clip of her and her friend saying the Sparks Motto " I promise to

share and be a friend " - I think Kennedy says " the friend " , though. I'm going

to get some more up there with her reading or something to give a better idea --

one of these days.

Quick funny story: MacKenzie, Kennedy, Jeanie, and I just had a few days visit

together and we did our bloodwork for the Canadian CHARGE gene study as Kennedy

had appointments down at the Children's Hospital (closer to where Jeanie & Mac

live). Anyway, MacKenzie & Jeanie & I all went first and Kennedy who HATES

bloodwork was flipping out and MacKenzie was holding her hand, Jeanie, another

nurse & I were holding her down and they missed the vein the first time because

she was too strong and jerked her arm (with 3 adults holding on..oy). Then we

got ready to do the other arm and Kennedy said " Oh MAN, not that arm again... "

Oh Man and Oh My Gosh/Gawd are her favourite sayings lately....

yikes...

Home: lisaweir@...

Work: lisa.weir@...

Phone:

Web: http://ca.geocities.com/weirfamilyrogers

August 21, 2005

-

Yes, expressively he prefers oral speaking with hearing people and signing

with the deaf. With Chip he will use both, as Chip uses both. When Chip

and communicate with they use no voice - because uses no

voice. )

Yes, uses an FM system at school and he also has a full time

interpreter. Aside note: some of the teachers will chat to privately

through the FM during class - very cool ) Sometimes teacher's forget to

turn the system off during their own private conversations. How silly! )

In two years of middle school and two years of high school only one teacher

was truly ill at ease using the system.

I am unsure what to say to you about the school system providing sign to

Aubrie. In our area it is a given that if there exists a hearing impairment

that sign be provided - especially if there is any risk of greater loss at a

later time. There is a deaf family who has a hearing daughter, and she was

placed in the DHH classes and mainstreamed with an interpreter and put at a

residential school at the district's expense because she is considered at

risk of her hearing deteriorating. However, the child would be placed in

the signing language environment at the districts place of preference - not

necessarily their home school.

Did I actually answer your questions? Sometimes I digress to where I am

thinking rather than what I intend to be responding to.....

Our lives are an open book ) Ask away )

Smiles~

yuka

Re: sign language

> Yuka-

> So -- tell me more about . Expressively, he prefers oral speaking

> with hearing people and sign with deaf people? What is his aided hearing

> now?? Does he use an FM system at school?? He does have an

> interpreter at school.

>

> If Aubrie's hearing impairment were greater, there's be no question that

> the school needs to provide sign. With her hearing as good as it is,

> she looks as if she is functioning well enough to not need any extra

> input. I'm so confused. I know it would be good for her. How to make

> it an argument they can't refuse is where I'm stumped.

>

> Michele W

August 21, 2005

Does Kennedy use an FM system at school?? Does she have an interpreter??

Aubrie also says, " oh my gosh/god " a lot. These girls are all so funny!!

Michele W

Weir wrote:

> Michele,

> Aided, she gets up around 30-35dB, unaided she's about 65 in her left

> and 100 in her right (I think, without checking -- severe to profound

> anyway). Yes, she does talk, almost exclusively expressively;

> receptively, she still looks for the visual cue especially if there's

> background noise, etc. See

> http://www.geocities.com/kawfolks/P1050152.MOV (this is a really

> short, not that GREAT clip of her and her friend saying the

> Sparks Motto " I promise to share and be a friend " - I think Kennedy

> says " the friend " , though. I'm going to get some more up there with

> her reading or something to give a better idea -- one of these days.

>

> Quick funny story: MacKenzie, Kennedy, Jeanie, and I just had a few

> days visit together and we did our bloodwork for the Canadian CHARGE

> gene study as Kennedy had appointments down at the Children's Hospital

> (closer to where Jeanie & Mac live). Anyway, MacKenzie & Jeanie & I

> all went first and Kennedy who HATES bloodwork was flipping out and

> MacKenzie was holding her hand, Jeanie, another nurse & I were holding

> her down and they missed the vein the first time because she was too

> strong and jerked her arm (with 3 adults holding on..oy). Then we got

> ready to do the other arm and Kennedy said " Oh MAN, not that arm again... "

> Oh Man and Oh My Gosh/Gawd are her favourite sayings lately....

> yikes...

>

August 21, 2005

Yuka-

So -- tell me more about . Expressively, he prefers oral speaking

with hearing people and sign with deaf people? What is his aided hearing

now?? Does he use an FM system at school?? He does have an

interpreter at school.

If Aubrie's hearing impairment were greater, there's be no question that

the school needs to provide sign. With her hearing as good as it is,

she looks as if she is functioning well enough to not need any extra

input. I'm so confused. I know it would be good for her. How to make

it an argument they can't refuse is where I'm stumped.

Michele W

>

August 21, 2005

another thought-

two years ago year at our school a girl was placed in sixth grade with a

" hearing aide " (a one-on-one adult aide, not the kind we put in our ear).

The child is hard-of-hearing, however, her family was highly anti-sign. So

she was mainstreamed into the sixth grade with a one-on-one adult aide who

actually said things again louder for her as needed. This did require the

girl knowing she didn't understand - and sometimes the aide was able to

predict a misunderstanding on the girl's part. There were other issues at

play as well - the girl manifested some tendencies in class that looked like

inattentiveness and hyperactivity, and often required re-direction and

re-focusing rather than repeating. However, she was under the DHH

departments care.

The really interesting thing is there was also another deaf child in the

same class placed with a signing interpreter. After a few months, the girl

with the hearing aide was socializing with the deaf child in the class and

the deaf children in the special day class and signing up a storm - even

though she had never signed before.....part of it was because she had alot

of that directness, abruptness and literalness often seen in deaf children -

accentuated by her own deficits in reading social cues and environmental

cues.....

Makes one wonder )

Smiles-

Yuka

Re: sign language

Today, she is at max vol. She's watching TV with Dad and having to ask

for clarification of what's on TV and for him to repeat just about

everything he says. So I did the LING again from sitting directly

behind her - about 1 foot away (usually I test at 6'). She had trouble

with about 3 or 4 sounds.

August 21, 2005

That's exactly what I needed. Even though Aubrie is hearing impaired, I

can't seem to get sign. I'm so confused by it. I mean, yes, she hears

decently. But not 100% well and not 100% of the time. A noisy

environment makes a huge difference. I think doing the LING test may

help the team understand how little she really is hearing even when she

appears to hear well.

Quick update -- we have new totally awesome hearing aides. With them,

she tested better than I've ever seen in the booth. Her hearing

fluctuates so we are doing daily testing using the LING test and then

adjusting the aide volume accordingly. Some days, she hears all of the

sounds on regular volume. Other days, I have to increase it 1 or 2

levels to hear all the sounds.

Today, she is at max vol. She's watching TV with Dad and having to ask

for clarification of what's on TV and for him to repeat just about

everything he says. So I did the LING again from sitting directly

behind her - about 1 foot away (usually I test at 6'). She had trouble

with about 3 or 4 sounds.

In school, there are noisy environments all around. There are times

when the FM system isn't useful -- like with multiple speakers. And

there are days when she just doesn't hear as well. There are also times

when she doesn't have her aids in or hears less due to infection, dead

batteries, etc. Or we're at the pool and she has no aids.

Aubrie is a hearing-impaired child. She is part of the deaf community.

She may or may not lose more hearing. She may or may not lose more

vision. If she was bilingual sign/speech she would be able to

communicate in any environment regardless of what her hearing status is

and how her equipment is working. Also if she would eventually lose

both hearing and vision, she'd better be able to adapt to tactile sign

having known visual sign for so long. Geez, I hope that never happens.

And, no, it's not likely. But it's also not out of the realm of

possibility.

As I write this, I think I will call the new audiologist to see if she

can help me make a case for sign, if she in fact agrees in it's

usefulness, appropriateness, and necessity for Aubrie.

If I can get them on board with sign, then there's the issue of cued

speech v. sign. Eegads!

Michele -- BTW -- I've missed you!! And I really missed meeting you in

Miami.

>

August 21, 2005

Michele,

Please fight for sign for Aubrie. does not always use it, but

it really helps her at school. She is mostly oral, but if she has an

ear infection and cannot wear her aids, she is " deaf for the day " as

she says! We use Total Communication at home and at school. Her

interpreter is awesome and is an advocate for . does do

well with her aids, but is very attentive to an interpreter if we are

in a setting that provides one. This tells me that it is important to

her and is helpful.

If is speaking with a person that signs, she will sign. If not,

she does not sign. And she is very patient with people (like me) that

are not proficient, but make the effort to sign with her.

I had to chuckle about your story of watching TV with Dad. Sounds

familiar! Does your TV have closed captioning? Even if Aubrie doesn't

read(?) it will help her. now asks for people to turn on their

CC if we are visiting.

After reading your email, I can't wait until gets her new

aids!!!!!

G

On Saturday, August 20, 2005, at 09:01 PM, Michele Westmaas wrote:

> That's exactly what I needed. Even though Aubrie is hearing impaired,

> I

> can't seem to get sign. I'm so confused by it. I mean, yes, she hears

> decently. But not 100% well and not 100% of the time. A noisy

> environment makes a huge difference. I think doing the LING test may

> help the team understand how little she really is hearing even when she

> appears to hear well.

>

> Quick update -- we have new totally awesome hearing aides. With them,

> she tested better than I've ever seen in the booth. Her hearing

> fluctuates so we are doing daily testing using the LING test and then

> adjusting the aide volume accordingly. Some days, she hears all of the

> sounds on regular volume. Other days, I have to increase it 1 or 2

> levels to hear all the sounds.

>

> Today, she is at max vol. She's watching TV with Dad and having to ask

> for clarification of what's on TV and for him to repeat just about

> everything he says. So I did the LING again from sitting directly

> behind her - about 1 foot away (usually I test at 6'). She had trouble

> with about 3 or 4 sounds.

>

> In school, there are noisy environments all around. There are times

> when the FM system isn't useful -- like with multiple speakers. And

> there are days when she just doesn't hear as well. There are also

> times

> when she doesn't have her aids in or hears less due to infection, dead

> batteries, etc. Or we're at the pool and she has no aids.

>

> Aubrie is a hearing-impaired child. She is part of the deaf community.

> She may or may not lose more hearing. She may or may not lose more

> vision. If she was bilingual sign/speech she would be able to

> communicate in any environment regardless of what her hearing status is

> and how her equipment is working. Also if she would eventually lose

> both hearing and vision, she'd better be able to adapt to tactile sign

> having known visual sign for so long. Geez, I hope that never happens.

> And, no, it's not likely. But it's also not out of the realm of

> possibility.

>

> As I write this, I think I will call the new audiologist to see if she

> can help me make a case for sign, if she in fact agrees in it's

> usefulness, appropriateness, and necessity for Aubrie.

>

> If I can get them on board with sign, then there's the issue of cued

> speech v. sign. Eegads!

>

> Michele -- BTW -- I've missed you!! And I really missed meeting you

> in

> Miami.

>

>>

>

> Membership of this email support groups does not constitute membership

> in the CHARGE Syndrome Foundation or CHARGE Syndrome Canada.

> For information about the CHARGE Syndrome

> Foundation or to become a member (and get the newsletter),

> please contact marion@... or visit

> the web site at http://www.chargesyndrome.org. For CHARGE Syndrome

> Canada information and membership, please visit

> http://www.chargesyndrome.ca, or email info@....

> 8th International

> CHARGE Syndrome Conference, July, 2007. Information will be available

> at www.chargesyndrome.org or by calling 1-.

>

August 21, 2005

Marty:

You are so right on with that statement! And sometimes we are limited by

what we are able to access. ASL is very highly regarded in Indiana for Deaf

individuals, so we have utilized that method. The best advice we received

was from a cousin of Rick's that was in Deaf Ed. She told us that it was

our choice as to what type of communication we developed with . But

whatever the method was, stick to it and immerse ourselves in it. She

taught in an ASL environment, but was not insisting it was the best or only

option. She just said whatever we chose, to follow it through.

I have seen a video of Brown's (seems like ages ago now) that showed

him working with a deafblind infant on a resonance board: The body language

(tensing or " waiting " ) was so evident, if you just knew to look for it as

communication and interpret what was wanted. Everyone wants and needs to

communicate and will find a way.

I've heard Dr. Davenport say it countless times: " Communication!

Communication!! Communication!!! " It is ultimately the best gift we can

give our children - in whatever form it takes.

Friends in CHARGE,

Marilyn Ogan

Mom of Ken (16 yrs., Asperger Syndrome)

Mom of (13 yrs., CHARGE+, JRA)

Wife of Rick (I'm still workin' on the railroad!)

oganm@...

Fishers, IN

Marty wrote:

..I really believe that whatever you are excited about as parents, will be

the best choice for your child.

August 21, 2005

Kennedy has a free field system in her class and yes, an interpreter (last yr

she had a " language facilitator " - this year a full fledged interpreter, but she

knows it won't be typical interpreting) Yes, they are FUNNY; I would love to

see Aubrie, MacKenzie & Kennedy together....Kennedy & MacKenzie were so funny

this past week...

Home: lisaweir@...

Work: lisa.weir@...

Phone:

Web: http://ca.geocities.com/weirfamilyrogers

August 21, 2005

Yuka-

I all makes me wonder again if we should send Aubrie to ISD for a term

just to get sign immersion. Then she could come back home with an

interpreter. Hmmmm...

Michele W

Yuka Persico wrote:

> another thought-

>

> two years ago year at our school a girl was placed in sixth grade with a

> " hearing aide " (a one-on-one adult aide, not the kind we put in our ear).

> The child is hard-of-hearing, however, her family was highly

> anti-sign. So

> she was mainstreamed into the sixth grade with a one-on-one adult aide who

> actually said things again louder for her as needed. This did require the

> girl knowing she didn't understand - and sometimes the aide was able to

> predict a misunderstanding on the girl's part. There were other issues at

> play as well - the girl manifested some tendencies in class that

> looked like

> inattentiveness and hyperactivity, and often required re-direction and

> re-focusing rather than repeating. However, she was under the DHH

> departments care.

>

> The really interesting thing is there was also another deaf child in the

> same class placed with a signing interpreter. After a few months, the

> girl

> with the hearing aide was socializing with the deaf child in the class and

> the deaf children in the special day class and signing up a storm - even

> though she had never signed before.....part of it was because she had alot

> of that directness, abruptness and literalness often seen in deaf

> children -

> accentuated by her own deficits in reading social cues and environmental

> cues.....

>

> Makes one wonder )

>

> Smiles-

>

> Yuka

August 21, 2005

Michele,

Hearing aids or not, Aubrie is hearing impaired. Even with the aids,

she does not hear as we do. This was told to me by our AEA hearing

consultant and is one of those things that have stuck in my head.

Sometimes we have to remind her teachers, but her interpreter does a

good job of that! Sometimes they think that the hearing aids make

everything better, but we all know how hearing can fluctuate with these

kids! Even though functions very well when she is healthy and

the aids and FM are working, those occasions aren't as common as we

would like.

has a moderate to severe loss in her right ear and severe to

profound in her left ear. She speaks very well...however, her vocal

cord is paralyzed as a result of her aortic arch reconstruction in

March 04 when they clipped a nerve. This makes her voice quiet and

raspy, but she is getting louder as her other cords accommodate a bit.

will be a fourth grader. She only has 11 kids in her class, as

we live in a rural area. Very good for her. Not so good for the

school system, as they are in danger of not being able to fund a

school...

Good luck with your school. You can always call in an advocate for the

hearing impaired if you need to. We did. This was when was in

preK...long story, but it was for her benefit, and everything worked

out for the better for her.

Also, remind the school that all the TV's that they use should be CC

when Aubrie is viewing. Small thing, but huge difference!

G

On Sunday, August 21, 2005, at 08:26 AM, Michele Westmaas wrote:

> -

> I am going to print your email along with all of the others to bring to

> our meeting. Remind me of 's aided hearing levels. Is her

> speech

> clear?? And, this is silly that I can't remember, but what grade is

> she

> in??? I know they are close in age but can't remember how close!

>

> I thought about the CC yesterday. I will turn it on today! She is a

> good reader for her age so it will probably be helpful. As I read your

> post, it occurred to me that Aubrie is a hearing-impaired child and

> they

> are trying to teach her as if she is hearing (as long as she has her

> aides and FM). I'm not sure that's ok.

>

> Michele W

>

>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>> --

>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

>>

>> * Visit your group " CHARGE

>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CHARGE> " on the web.

>>

>> *

August 21, 2005

Michele,

Unless those aides allow her to have " Normal " hearing, then she is still

hearing impaired even if it is a mild loss. I remember learning years ago,

that sometimes it was the hardest for children who had mild hearing losses,

because they did so well, that people assumed they heard everything. WRONG!

They still can't hear the distinct vowel and consonant sounds, they can't

hear with competing noise, they use vision to help compensate by watching

lips to gain more information about what they are hearing..... And this is

kids with " just " mild hearing loss. Then you add in that Aubrie also has

some limits to her vision and then you add on that she has CHARGE and that

putting all the pieces together is sometimes harder, that she absolutely has

to be missing information.

Kim

> -

> I am going to print your email along with all of the others to bring to

> our meeting. Remind me of 's aided hearing levels. Is her speech

> clear?? And, this is silly that I can't remember, but what grade is she

> in??? I know they are close in age but can't remember how close!

>

> I thought about the CC yesterday. I will turn it on today! She is a

> good reader for her age so it will probably be helpful. As I read your

> post, it occurred to me that Aubrie is a hearing-impaired child and they

> are trying to teach her as if she is hearing (as long as she has her

> aides and FM). I'm not sure that's ok.

>

> Michele W

>

>>

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

>>

>> * Visit your group " CHARGE

>> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CHARGE> " on the web.

>>

>> *

August 21, 2005

Kim, that's been a problem for us - I can attest to the fact that people just

assume Kennedy's getting it all because " she can talk " ... well she doesn't and

I know it. I'm glad there are people out there who " get it " ...

Kim Lauger wrote: