Re: Abstract Thinking/I am a little down about our progress.

[Guest guest]

I would contend that socialization at this point should be moved down the road

for at least a while. And I believe that your ABA therapist has rocks in her

head. If you approach the disorder from a sensory standpoint, your son may feel

as if he must track the movements of all persons outside his milieu of trusted

companions. ABA may often be practiced to totally disregard any vestibular,

proprioceptive or tactile deficits. And even when ABA therapists claim that they

know sensory integration dysfunction, they often interpret it via ABA. We are

using the Son-Rise modality with my son and he typically interacts socially with

only one person at a time. He is much happier, more social and much more

outgoing as his world is extremely predictable and user friendly. His

vocabulary has gone from nothing to 50 words in 6 months. He can now string

together three word sentences and phrases. My son is 5 years old (this

week) and yes we will integrate more intense social interactions, but only on

his (and not his therapists) timetable.

The Listening program will help with AIT but I would suggest something more

proactive at this point such as a Berard intensive.

God Bless!

S. Hooker, Ph.D., P.E.

Staff Engineer

Pacific Northwest National Laboratory

MSIN K6-96

902 Battelle Blvd.

Richland, WA 99352

Ph. 509-376-4451

Fx. 509-372-1704

Cell 509-366-2269

Email: brian.hooker@...

[ ] Abstract Thinking/I am a little down about our

progress.

Hi, everyone.

I have more questions for my favorite list group. We are at a loss

over the entire preschool thing. Our son is lamost 4 and a half and

is having a VERY difficult time socially. He just shuts down and

barely acknowledges anyone at school. He is a COMPLETELY different

child at home or when he is with people with whom he is comfortable.

We have finished 27 rounds and have seen lots of mercury arsenic and

on this last round, lead, of the charts.

We just had his ABA consultant/psychologist come and evaluate him at

his preschool today and she was very upset that he was completely

shut down (b/c she has seen him when he looks so wonderful). Anyway,

she does not think it is a senosry issue. She thinks it has to do

with abstract thinking -- that he is having trouble processing

different situations and so his way of coping is to just tune

everything out. She wants me to have even more playdates (I am doing

my best). It is worth noting that he is having more trouble lately

because the bugs are back in full force; however, he behaves the same

way even without the bugs (so when I think he is doing fantastically

well, it is not translating over to school). I think the bugs do

affect his processing and his abstract thinking (perhaps because this

is what he has the most trouble with to begin with??).

My questions:

1. Has anyone dealt with this before? I know he has an auditory

processing problem and I just ordered the Listening Program (who

knows if it will help?). Any suggestions?

2. Does the abstract thinking process improve with continued

chelation? I have seen improvement with this, but lately he is

slower with everything (I hate the gut bugs!). How long does it take?

3. Does a deficit in abstract thinking really affect the social

skills or should I be working more on social skills or both?

Although my little guy has made great progress, I am so worried

because he seems more and more anxious in social settings lately. I

feel very bummed and conflicted about what to do now!

Thanks again everyone!

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/2/03 11:47:52 pm, stanfun89@... writes:

> 1.  Has anyone dealt with this before?  I know he has an auditory

> processing problem and I just ordered the Listening Program (who

> knows if it will help?).  Any suggestions?

>

Yes I use TLP. Dont' know if it's any good!

My son at 4 was a disaster at school. Wouldn't talk at all. But gradually

he did talk and actually take part. Last week, a the age of 6, he drew a

picture for a little girl he says is his friend (you can't tell he thinks

she's a friend, but apparently he does). The picture was sunny with a

rainbow. He called it a " Happy picture of Planet Good " .

At home my boy looks almost normal (okay, not exactly), at school you see

the troubles. Don't get discouraged. If he isn't distressed, go with it

very gradually, adding in only as much as he can cope with. Pair the school

with good things (Nicky gets his beyblade at breaktimes, for eg) so he looks

forward to it.

Your ABA supervisor should have expected this! Every kid I know acts worse

in school, looks more " autistic " etc. It takes a while for them to be

themselves in school.

If he's very distressed, it may be too soon for him. Can't tell how he's

acting by your post!

Marti

[Guest guest]

I think dealing with the heavy metals moving through your body on the way out

could be enough stress to make anybody feel less socially inclined. If it was my

son, I would try to keep him home more if possible and not put him in a

situation he doesn't seem to be able to cope with at present.

Dagmar.

[ ] Abstract Thinking/I am a little down about our

progress.

Hi, everyone.

I have more questions for my favorite list group. We are at a loss

over the entire preschool thing. Our son is lamost 4 and a half and

is having a VERY difficult time socially. He just shuts down and

barely acknowledges anyone at school. He is a COMPLETELY different

child at home or when he is with people with whom he is comfortable.

We have finished 27 rounds and have seen lots of mercury arsenic and

on this last round, lead, of the charts.

We just had his ABA consultant/psychologist come and evaluate him at

his preschool today and she was very upset that he was completely

shut down (b/c she has seen him when he looks so wonderful). Anyway,

she does not think it is a senosry issue. She thinks it has to do

with abstract thinking -- that he is having trouble processing

different situations and so his way of coping is to just tune

everything out. She wants me to have even more playdates (I am doing

my best). It is worth noting that he is having more trouble lately

because the bugs are back in full force; however, he behaves the same

way even without the bugs (so when I think he is doing fantastically

well, it is not translating over to school). I think the bugs do

affect his processing and his abstract thinking (perhaps because this

is what he has the most trouble with to begin with??).

My questions:

1. Has anyone dealt with this before? I know he has an auditory

processing problem and I just ordered the Listening Program (who

knows if it will help?). Any suggestions?

2. Does the abstract thinking process improve with continued

chelation? I have seen improvement with this, but lately he is

slower with everything (I hate the gut bugs!). How long does it take?

3. Does a deficit in abstract thinking really affect the social

skills or should I be working more on social skills or both?

Although my little guy has made great progress, I am so worried

because he seems more and more anxious in social settings lately. I

feel very bummed and conflicted about what to do now!

Thanks again everyone!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/2/03 11:59:41 pm, brian.hooker@... writes:

> Berard intensive.

>

Not to be terrible, but I have heard this is a little too loud. Just check

it out wherever you go. I have not used anything but the Listening Program

so cannot comment with any REAL experience of the " intensive " . Just heresay

that the intensive is too loud.

marti

[Guest guest]

- We are standing beside you, in this frustration (one week into our

first chelation protocol). I have no answers, and am desperately seeking the

light at the end of the tunnel!!!

-Liz P

[Guest guest]

Thank you. I just heard from my ABA consultant that she think that

Jake is presenting like he has a learning diability. However, he is

so bright. I am hoping we can get him through this with continued

chelation and gut bug slaying. This entire process is just so

exhausting (I know I am preaching to the choir). I know I need to

remind myself of how far we have come, and I am keeping the hope that

continued chelation and help in the social arena will allow him to

come through this relatively unscathed. It's not fair what our

little troopers have to go through and how hard they have to work for

what comes naturally for others!!

Thanks again. Take care.

--- In , " E " <lizzy03@c...>

wrote:

> - We are standing beside you, in this frustration (one

week into our first chelation protocol). I have no answers, and am

desperately seeking the light at the end of the tunnel!!!

>

> -Liz P

>

>

[Guest guest]

was in 2 studies involving the Berard method- both done

at the Center for the Study of Autism/ Steve Edelson of ARI. I

would think part of the study would be to find out the appropriate

" loudness " , I know we tested both times for appropriate tones to

screen out or use.

Ruth

--- In , Martharolfe@a...

wrote:

>

> In a message dated 12/2/03 11:59:41 pm, brian.hooker@p...

writes:

>

>

> > Berard intensive.

> >

>

> Not to be terrible, but I have heard this is a little too loud. Just

check

> it out wherever you go. I have not used anything but the

Listening Program

> so cannot comment with any REAL experience of the

" intensive " . Just heresay

> that the intensive is too loud.

>

> marti

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/12/03 5:48:29 PM Central Standard Time,

stanfun89@... writes:

> >1. Has anyone dealt with this before? I know he has an auditory

> processing problem and I just ordered the Listening Program (who

> knows if it will help?). Any suggestions?

>

Yes. I wonder why your consultant has ruled out a sensory problem especially

if your son does better with just a few people. How does he do with a 1:1

playdate? Does he shut down or does he do almost as well as with his

therapists?

TLP has been very helpful for my son especially in dampening sensory

overstimulation making it easier for him to do well in larger groups. He

still has trouble knowing where to put his attention when more than four

people are in the room but he's getting better.

> 2. Does the abstract thinking process improve with continued

> chelation? I have seen improvement with this, but lately he is

> slower with everything (I hate the gut bugs!). How long does it take?

>

It can but working on it directly can also help. Perhaps setting up some

scenarios or games where he is able to work through problems or better

understand situations in a safe environment (non-school) would be helpful.

Also, what is his processing level? To check this, say a set of digits or

objects to him -- ie: say 9 - 5 - 8 -3 (say slowly, abt one second per

digit) -- he should be able to repeat as many digits or objects as his age up

to 6-7, where most people remain. So if he is 4, he should be able to repeat

four digits fairly easily. If he can't working on this can help him better

take in, process and output info more easily which ultimately leads to better

abstract thinking. If he's at a 2 or 3, and directions are being given at a

4-5 yr old level, he will have much more difficulty following them especially

when you add in the confusion of more people.

> 3. Does a deficit in abstract thinking really affect the social

> skills or should I be working more on social skills or both?

>

Yes it can but so can sensory issues. I don't know your child but I'd be

willing to bet it's a combo with sensory being a greater need to hit along

with possibly auditory processing since you mentioned that. Lowering the

sensory distraction level, helping the child better filter out unuseful info

and bumping up what he can take in, process and output will make it so much

easier for him to move into more abstract thinking. If you don't have the

processing in place, teaching abstract thinking is like beating your head

against a wall (been there). You can train him of a few things and how to

respond but you won't get truly flexible thinking which is required in

changing situations like being in a group.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

> Hi, everyone.

>

> I have more questions for my favorite list group. We are at a loss

> over the entire preschool thing. Our son is lamost 4 and a half and

> is having a VERY difficult time socially. He just shuts down and

> barely acknowledges anyone at school. He is a COMPLETELY different

> child at home or when he is with people with whom he is comfortable.

I can think of a lot of reasons for this, which would be too numerous

to list for this group. You can send me private email if you want.

She thinks it has to do

> with abstract thinking -- that he is having trouble processing

> different situations and so his way of coping is to just tune

> everything out.

This would be one possible reason, altho it is much less likely than

other reasons I can think of.

> Although my little guy has made great progress, I am so worried

> because he seems more and more anxious in social settings lately. I

> feel very bummed and conflicted about what to do now!

Something is happening at school. Can you arrange to observe things?

It sounds like his attempts at social interaction are being rebuffed,

or actively refused, or worse, so he has learned not to bother, or

even to avoid social situations. This sounds so much like me, and

believe me, it only gets worse.

Dana