Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 In a message dated 1/15/03 6:54:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, robbiev911@... writes: << Hon. I know the awful hurt you feel. Do NOT believe for NOT 1 minute that there is such a thing called autism. Your baby has been poisoned. GOOD NEWS you can get your baby back. 1 vitamin therapy [support all >> **************do you really believe that there is no such thing as " autism " . I have done the vitamin therapy, the chelation therapy, meds., ABA, you name it we have tried it. My son is still very much autistic. He may have better days, his stools might look better, his behavior may be better, he may learn more, but he is still very much autistic. He is still my baby and I love him autistic or not. ac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 HI-- at this point, I would not worry so much about the diagnosis but put your efforts towards learning more about chelation for metals... I mean, obviously continue to pursue a diagnosis if you feel it is going to be helpful to define treatments but just from your brief description, he could have autism, he could have sensory integration dysfunction, he could have adhd, he could have odd, etc. In my thinking, all of these boil down to ... toxicity. Manifests with different symptoms with different people. Even before chelation (while you are still learning about it) consider doing things such as epsom salt baths and essential fatty acids... I've got some info written up on them and would be happy to email them to you. Just email me off board. Starting some magnesium would probably be helpful, too. Also, follow up on advice that others give you on the board-- lots of good information on this board and lots of children have been helped here! maryandphilip@... W > Hi all, > > I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months > or so he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it > gets worse, he would even hit adults. He've had full course of > vaccination including Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd > get sick for at least a week. I only heard about thiomersol and > mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs without it. My wife also > has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards autistic? Is there > anyway to check it for sure? > > Thanks! > > Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 Hi Bill, just aggression does not mean autism. There are at least several symptoms for autism diagnosis, I believe you will find them if you search the internet. I would advise to look at www.hriptc.org . Pfeiffer center has experience in treating aggression and behavior problems. Margaret > Hi all, > > I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months > or so he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it > gets worse, he would even hit adults. He've had full course of > vaccination including Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd > get sick for at least a week. I only heard about thiomersol and > mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs without it. My wife also > has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards autistic? Is there > anyway to check it for sure? > > Thanks! > > Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 You might find the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist helpful at <http://www.autism.com/ari/atec.html>. Lynne >> I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months or so >> he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it gets worse, he >> would even hit adults. He've had full course of vaccination including >> Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd get sick for at least a week. >> I only heard about thiomersol and mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs >> without it. My wife also has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards >> autistic? Is there anyway to check it for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2003 Report Share Posted January 15, 2003 Hi Bill,Welcome to the list. You've come to the right place. Consider doing a hair analysis through DDI (Docter's Data) and apply counting rules (see FAQs of this list) to see if he's mercury toxic, or has other metals above range. Many kids on this list should have the diagnosis heavy metal poisoning rather than autism to be accurate. Mercury, arsenic, and antimony are among those which these kids often have in high levels. Your son may have food or environmental allergies or gluten and/or casein issues in addition to the metals issues. Also, if he had antibiotics (which kill off both the " bad " and good gut " bugs " ) for ear infections, etc. he may have yeast issues. You may want to try Epsom salt baths (they help calm some folks) for your son while you wait for the hair analysis results. Also, try to look for triggers/antecedents to his outbursts for clues. Do they usually occur around particular people, in particular locations, at particular times of day, during times of transition, when he's just eaten or when he's hungry? Pay attention to smells (perfume, cleaning supplies, detergents, paint, etc) and sound (some with hypersensitive hearing become aggressive). S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 In a message dated 1/16/2003 10:30:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, klmitch@... writes: << By the everyone, my reg ped has decided to help chelate her, he's called in DMSA for her and has no problem with it, I've compiled info from this list and books gone in there pleaded my case, he said I should be a lawyer bc I was pretty convincing, he saw the difference in this nonverbal headbanging kid to a social talking butterfly!!! He's convinced and doing everything I've asked him to do, how wonderful that you guys could all have given enough information to enable me to do this, and to help my dd get well. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Karyn >> Karyn, How wonderful that your Ped would read & listen to what you presented to him. Many others (most) do not. Most of us have to go through years of " h*ll " with the mainstream medical doctors and search high and low for a doctor such as the one you describe. Keep teaching him!! Michele Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 -My son started hitting at 15 months right after his boosters. He was a calm, sweet baby and then WHAM! Everytime he didnt get what he wanted he would hit and get really angry. Over the course of the next 6 months to a year he also started with sensory problems like not wanting to be hugged, kissed, didnt like the smell of anything and wanted his clothes to be warmed into the dryer. Tantrums like I never heard before and would NOT transition or listed to anything I said. FOrget discipline. I took him to a child psychologist when he was 2 who told me he was strong willed and everyone else said it was just a bad case of terrible 2's. He was very agressive to other children and would literally attack his sister who is 4 years older. My husband and I would have to take shifts to stay in the same room with him at all times. My life was a complete nightmare. What confused everyone is that he was very advanced in his speech and communication. I decided to take him off casein and gluten (and soy) on my own and we saw some improvements in his behavior and then we started digestive enzymes while on the diet.(HNI enzymeS). We then did a hair test and found out that he has extremely high antimony, lead, moderatly high arsenic and more than likely mercury. We have done 8 rounds of chelation (he is 4 now), treated bad yeast and he is MUCH better! He plays really nicely for hours with his sister, is not agressive anymore, listens to a command and is in a regular pre-school. He has to still be on enzymes (but back on a regular diet) or we regress but not as bad as before chelation.He was diagnosed as oppositional defiant disorder and OCD (forgot to mention that one, he got really obsessive to the point that it would controll our whole day) The doctor I now see feels that if we did not do the interventions I mentioned he would have regressed into high functioning autism or asbergers. But it is all labeled on a degree of symptoms. My point is I knew my child best and I knew something was not right. There are people still that tell me nothing is wrong with him that he is just a tuff little boy. Patti -- In , Lynne Arnold <lsarnold@e...> wrote: > You might find the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist helpful at > <http://www.autism.com/ari/atec.html>. > > Lynne > > >> I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months or so > >> he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it gets worse, he > >> would even hit adults. He've had full course of vaccination including > >> Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd get sick for at least a week. > >> I only heard about thiomersol and mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs > >> without it. My wife also has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards > >> autistic? Is there anyway to check it for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 My son sounds similar to your son in two respects. He seems to have identical metal problems: antimony off scale, double 98th percentile, red lead yellow arsenic and meeting the counting rules for mercury. He also hits a lot and seems to me OCD. When I learned about the antimony I started to give him lots of vitamin B12, folic acid and choline (as described probably in the FAQ section). I found quite a bit of change quickly. He seemed less OCD and less inclined to hit. I had given him B12 with uva ursa in, because I wanted to avoid sugars and sweeteners. When I realised, that this might not be a good idea either I gave him different B12 and he didn't seem quite as good on that. I also changed from folic acid and choline to TMG at the same time. He is still quite good and I think chelation has helped as well. So in short, something of the above has helped, but I am not sure exactly what. Because I am not really happy with any of the available vit B12, I have stopped giving all the above for the time being and focus on chelating the mercury and lead and on trying to find out where all this antimony has come from. I will give those supplements again though if his OCD or hitting becomes worse again. My feeling is that the improvement was connected with the B12 with the uva ursa. But this is really only a gut feeling and might well be wrong (I also don't quite know why you shouldn't give the uva ursa). Dagmar. [ ] Re: Is my child autistic? -My son started hitting at 15 months right after his boosters. He was a calm, sweet baby and then WHAM! Everytime he didnt get what he wanted he would hit and get really angry. Over the course of the next 6 months to a year he also started with sensory problems like not wanting to be hugged, kissed, didnt like the smell of anything and wanted his clothes to be warmed into the dryer. Tantrums like I never heard before and would NOT transition or listed to anything I said. FOrget discipline. I took him to a child psychologist when he was 2 who told me he was strong willed and everyone else said it was just a bad case of terrible 2's. He was very agressive to other children and would literally attack his sister who is 4 years older. My husband and I would have to take shifts to stay in the same room with him at all times. My life was a complete nightmare. What confused everyone is that he was very advanced in his speech and communication. I decided to take him off casein and gluten (and soy) on my own and we saw some improvements in his behavior and then we started digestive enzymes while on the diet.(HNI enzymeS). We then did a hair test and found out that he has extremely high antimony, lead, moderatly high arsenic and more than likely mercury. We have done 8 rounds of chelation (he is 4 now), treated bad yeast and he is MUCH better! He plays really nicely for hours with his sister, is not agressive anymore, listens to a command and is in a regular pre-school. He has to still be on enzymes (but back on a regular diet) or we regress but not as bad as before chelation.He was diagnosed as oppositional defiant disorder and OCD (forgot to mention that one, he got really obsessive to the point that it would controll our whole day) The doctor I now see feels that if we did not do the interventions I mentioned he would have regressed into high functioning autism or asbergers. But it is all labeled on a degree of symptoms. My point is I knew my child best and I knew something was not right. There are people still that tell me nothing is wrong with him that he is just a tuff little boy. Patti -- In , Lynne Arnold <lsarnold@e...> wrote: > You might find the Autism Treatment Evaluation Checklist helpful at > <http://www.autism.com/ari/atec.html>. > > Lynne > > >> I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months or so > >> he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it gets worse, he > >> would even hit adults. He've had full course of vaccination including > >> Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd get sick for at least a week. > >> I only heard about thiomersol and mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs > >> without it. My wife also has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards > >> autistic? Is there anyway to check it for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 > I've done all the above and started chelating, my dd is still on the spectrum but when you have an ATEC score of 137 when I started 3 months ago (YEP only 3 months) and she is at 65 now, there is hope. They told me the most I could hope for was to get her behaviors under control, all I have to say to that is bull#@$%. Joy is on this list as well and she has seen my dd from the beginning and she has seen the differences in her, it's not just one mama talking it's alot of difference. You can do this and you can get your baby back, yes you will love this child no matter what, and not everyone will be able to have a full recovery - then again you must know what your point of recovery is. My husbands is perfectly normal, mine is less, but she is a far cry from where she was and she continues to blossom and get better everyday. Pull yourself up by the bootstraps, educate yourself (big step by being on this list), and start kicking butt. Don't take no for an answer!!!! God only knows where she would be now had I listened to everyone who told me she was hopeless!!!! You can do it, and no question is a dumb question if it's something that will help your child. By the everyone, my reg ped has decided to help chelate her, he's called in DMSA for her and has no problem with it, I've compiled info from this list and books gone in there pleaded my case, he said I should be a lawyer bc I was pretty convincing, he saw the difference in this nonverbal headbanging kid to a social talking butterfly!!! He's convinced and doing everything I've asked him to do, how wonderful that you guys could all have given enough information to enable me to do this, and to help my dd get well. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Karyn > From: Msdai54513@... > Date: 2003/01/15 Wed PM 10:24:20 EST > > Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Is my child autistic? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Bill, I'm sorry to hear that you think your child may be regressing. Have seen by a developmental Ped asap. We also have feelings our daughter had issues at 2 yrs old. At that point she didn't have a strong diagnosis of Autism, but we decided that we were going to assume that she did for reasons of treatment. We thought that if she did maybe we are catching it soon enough to " teach " her brain how to work correctly. And if she didn't we sould never know but hopefully she would never have a true diagnosis if for no other reason than the fact that we started treatment soon enough to help her. There is a study out there that shows 4 key behaviors at the first birthday that children who definately had autism at about 6 yrs old showed. Maybe someone could help us find a link to that study. My Hannah is still borderline at 4yrs old, but did not exhibit the 4 key behaviors at one yr old. This study was all of the evidence that I needed to know that I was going to assist her as if she was autistic, regardless of the actual diagnosis. Here is the article: The development of tools for earlier diagnosis of autism is moving quickly. By Beth Azar Monitor staff To the consternation of many parents, children with autism rarely receive a diagnosis before age 3 or 4. But behavioral researchers believe they are homing in on specific behaviors that should drop the age of first diagnosis down to as young as 18 months. Early diagnosis has become increasingly critical as treatments for the potentially devastating developmental disorder advance and research begins to show that the earlier the disorder is diagnosed, the better the prognosis. Developmental researchers increasingly find that there are critical periods of child development after which certain systems—such as language, vision and motor skills—become less malleable. And the same is likely to be true for social behaviors and intellectual abilities—skills often affected in children with autism, says University of Washington psychologist Geraldine Dawson, PhD. Therefore, if researchers can learn how to diagnose autism in children at birth or several months after, they may be able to design interventions that derail the disorder before it develops, some researchers speculate. The development of tools for earlier diagnosis of autism is moving quickly, say researchers. This summer, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) hosted a conference on autism diagnosis to discuss the state of the science and to begin to develop practice guidelines for diagnosing autism. And, as geneticists begin to locate potential 'autism genes' (see article on page 13), behavioral researchers are fast developing behavior-based diagnostic tools that will work at increasingly younger ages. A tricky diagnosis Autism is difficult to diagnose in very young children because several of the disorder’s main symptoms—such as the child’s relationship with peers—involve behaviors that don’t fully develop in children until later in childhood, says Fred Volkmar, MD, of the Yale Child Study Center. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders-IV (DSM-IV), the essential features of autistic disorder include trouble interacting with others and a tendency to have narrowly focused and odd interests, as with the boy who was fascinated by watches to the exclusion of anything else. Most researchers admit that these traits are the hallmarks of autism, but they also say that they don’t help much when trying to diagnose autism in children younger than age 2 or 3. Diagnosis of autism is also difficult because the best early indicators involve the absence of consistent social and communication behaviors rather than the presence of an abnormality. 'There could be lots of reasons you’re not seeing a behavior,' says autism researcher Stone, PhD, of Vanderbilt University School of Medicine. 'You could not be seeing it because it’s not developing, or it could be that the child is not showing it to you at that time.' University of Chicago researcher Lord, PhD, has tried to address this issue by designing an observational diagnostic tool—the Autism Diagnostic Observation Schedule-Generic—which creates situations that attempt to elicit certain behaviors in children such as pointing or asking for something. Autistic children, researchers find, often fail to draw others’ attention to objects by pointing and tend not to ask for things in the same way as other children, says Lord. Her diagnostic technique also includes a parent interview, called the Autism Diagnostic Interview–Revised, which asks parents about how the child acts in typical situations. Lord’s longitudinal work suggests that her tools can diagnose children as young as 18 months, she says. The diagnosis is somewhat inconclusive when children are this young, but becomes more stable at age 3 and again at age 5, she says. Research by Lord and others finds that social and communication behaviors, such as imitation and use of gestures, are most indicative of autism in very young children, says Stone, who reviewed the research on early behavioral indicators of autism. Based on her own research, Stone is developing a screening tool that she hopes will allow clinicians to check for autism in children age 2 and possibly younger. In a study that followed a group of children from age 2 to 4, she identified three specific skill areas, all in the realm of social and communication skills, which appear to indicate autism: • Play. Children with autism fail to engage in reciprocal play, where there is a back-and-forth between two people (as when rolling a ball) and functional play, where children play with toys such as dolls or cars in the way intended. • Motor imitation. Children with autism copy others’ motor movements far less than other children. • Joint attention. Unlike most children, children with autism don’t often use pointing or other techniques to direct another person’s attention. A pattern of behaviors What is particularly striking about children with autism is how different they are from each other, say researchers such as Stone and Grace Baranek, PhD, at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. In an attempt to delineate behaviors that distinguish children with autism from other children, Baranek examined early home videos taken when the children were 9 months to 12 months old—well before they were diagnosed with autism. When she compared the videos with home videos of children with other developmental disabilities and children with no disabilities, she found that the children with autism didn’t all have the same symptoms but instead showed a pattern of behaviors as a group. Overall, the autistic children showed subtle problems in sensory attention and arousal. In particular, they oriented less to visual information in their environments; they put objects in their mouths more often; they needed more cues before they would look when someone called their names; and they pulled away from social touch slightly more than either of the other groups of children. But 'you can’t tell these kids apart by glancing at their home movies—it takes a detailed analysis of their subtle behaviors,' adds Baranek. In fact, at the study’s end, the students who coded the specific behaviors from the videos were unable to reliably determine whether a child had autism, another developmental disability or no disability. Even trained clinicians have a hard time seeing behavioral problems in very young children later diagnosed with autism, says Dawson of the University of Washington. She’s conducted three studies using home videos, and in each she asked experienced pediatricians to look at the tapes and make a qualitative judgment about which children had autism. When the children were 1 year old or older, the pediatricians did reasonably well. But when the children were 8 months to 10 months old, the pediatricians were unable to tell the difference. In fact, even trained video coders had a hard time finding differences in behaviors of the youngest children. In Dawson’s first home video study, she examined videos of babies’ first birthday parties and, similar to what others find, identified four behaviors that distinguished the children with autism from the children with no developmental disability: failure to make eye contact with others, to point, to show objects to others and to orient to one’s name being called. When she examined videos of children 8 months to 10 months old, the inability to make eye contact with others and to respond to one’s name continued to distinguish the children. But joint attention behaviors, such as the inability to point and to show, did not. This isn’t surprising, says Dawson, since such behaviors are not typical of children much younger than 1, but it limits the number of criteria clinicians will be able to use for diagnosis at such young ages, she adds. A Catch-22? If researchers develop behavioral tools for screening and diagnosing children with autism at age 2 and younger—and most researchers believe they’re close—they will face a seeming paradox. How can they prove their early diagnosis was right if the children they diagnose at 18 months enter into interventions that help treat their dysfunction? 'It’s a huge problem,' says Stone. 'You don’t know if you were wrong at age 2 or whether the intervention worked so well that your diagnosis is no longer valid.' That’s why most researchers hope they will find biological or genetic markers for autism that could accurately diagnose autism at birth and would bolster the behavioral measures. Some teams are well on the way toward finding one or several autism genes, and others are using neuroimaging to search for specific anatomical or functional differences in the brains of people with autism as well as for biochemical markers. However, having something that is solid enough for diagnosing the disorder is still a long way off, agreed researchers at the NIH 'Working conference on the state of the science in autism: screening and diagnosis' held in June. That conference, sponsored by the NIH Autism Coordinating Committee, which represents several NIH institutes, and the Office of Behavioral and Social Sciences Research, brought together researchers, clinicians and representatives of parents’ groups to review the research on autism diagnosis and draft an outline for autism screening and diagnosis practice guidelines. Although NIH is not in the business of setting diagnostic criteria or practice guidelines, it tries to help professional organizations do so when appropriate, said National Institute of Child Health and Human Development Director Duane , MD, as he welcomed people to the conference. And it’s time to do so for autism because it is so often mis-diagnosed or mistaken for other developmental disorders. Also, although the DSM-IV provides diagnostic criteria, it doesn’t provide clinicians with guidelines on how to perform initial screenings or on which tools to use to measure behavior. Several professional organizations, including the American Academy of Neurology, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Society for Research in Child Development and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, fully backed the initial conference. And many others, including APA, were invited to participate. The same professional groups are invited to meet this winter to review a draft of the proposed guidelines and negotiate a final product they can all agree on and endorse, says ine Filipek, MD, co-chair with Marie Bristol-Power, PhD, of the first meeting, and chair of the next meeting. 'It is very important to get everyone on board and on the same wavelength,' says Filipek, a child neurologist at the University of California, Irvine. That will be the only way to ensure accurate and early diagnosis of autism.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 > Hi all, > > I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months > or so he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it > gets worse, he would even hit adults. He've had full course of > vaccination including Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd > get sick for at least a week. I only heard about thiomersol and > mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs without it. My wife also > has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards autistic? Is there > anyway to check it for sure? Hello Bill, I do not know how to get the help you have asked for. I think Dana's website has some links about the diagnostic criteria for Autism: http://www.danasview.net/ Another option is to try to find out if he is metal toxic. Here is information on how to do that: /files/HOW_TO_hair_test You can pursue both of these issues at the same time, if you wish. best wishes, Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 > Hi all, > > I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months > or so he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it > gets worse, he would even hit adults. He've had full course of > vaccination including Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd > get sick for at least a week. I only heard about thiomersol and > mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs without it. My wife also > has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards autistic? You can read the dx criteria here http://www.danasview.net/parentin.htm#diagnostic Aggression is generally a phenol intolerance symptom http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm And phenol intolerance is commonly caused by metal toxicity, which is presumably why you are on this forum http://www.danasview.net/chelate.htm Aggression does not necessarily equal autism, so perhaps your child is affected differently by the phenols and metals. Good luck. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 | I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months | or so he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it | gets worse, he would even hit adults. He've had full course of | vaccination including Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd | get sick for at least a week. I only heard about thiomersol and | mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs without it. My wife also | has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards autistic? Is there | anyway to check it for sure? Hi Bill, Well, I know what I'd do... I'd remove all simple sugars, all additives (dyes and preservatives), a few of the top food allergens (e.g. peanuts, corn), any food he craves, and all gluten and casein from his diet (e.g. feed him mainly home-prepared meats and veggies), prepare for a rough few days as he may experience withdrawl, and then see if those changes make a difference. If so, then you are probably in the same boat the rest of us are and probably have a metals toxicity issue to address. said... Hi Bill,Welcome to the list. You've come to the right place. Consider doing a hair analysis through DDI (Docter's Data) and apply counting rules (see FAQs of this list) to see if he's mercury toxic, or has other metals above range. Many kids on this list should have the diagnosis heavy metal poisoning rather than autism to be accurate. Mercury, arsenic, and antimony are among those which these kids often have in high levels. Your son may have food or environmental allergies or gluten and/or casein issues in addition to the metals issues. Also, if he had antibiotics (which kill off both the " bad " and good gut " bugs " ) for ear infections, etc. he may have yeast issues. You may want to try Epsom salt baths (they help calm some folks) for your son while you wait for the hair analysis results. Also, try to look for triggers/antecedents to his outbursts for clues. Do they usually occur around particular people, in particular locations, at particular times of day, during times of transition, when he's just eaten or when he's hungry? Pay attention to smells (perfume, cleaning supplies, detergents, paint, etc) and sound (some with hypersensitive hearing become aggressive). S I agree with 's post, with the small addition that reactions can be quite delayed - by 1/2 day or even a day or two, making it really difficult to identify the triggering item. A food diary can help, but only if he's not reacting to everything. Doris Rapp's books (avail. in most libraries) talk about the 'rain barrel' effect - that exposure to offending substances may not result in a reaction until exposures have accumulated. Her books describe aggression responses. But Doris emphasizes those cases where a single food item caused all of the kid's problems, whereas in my daughter's case she was reacting to many, many things, and I wasted a lot of time looking for that one offender. Please consider doing a dietary removal test ASAP, because as offending foods are eaten the gut becomes more damaged and leaky, creating even more food allergies. Most published food allergy advice will suggest doing single food removals, but if the kid is allergic to many foods you run the risk of not being able to identify the food as an allergen this way, which is why I suggest removing many offenders at once. Don't worry about what family and friends may say, and don't waste time and energy trying to convince them that you are right about this - just do it. If this helps you can refine his diet, and try adding back former foods, later. There are blood allergy tests that can help here, too. Other ideas - Epsom salts on the skin, probiotics to help heal the gut (yeast), digestive enzymes, antihistimines/decongestants if he's showing allergy symptoms, sublingual metatonin tablets (1 mg.) at bedtime if he's having trouble getting to sleep - others? All these can be done while investigating his metals toxicity and while trying to find a DAN or other helpful doctor for testing and treatment. Another thing that may help a lot is to give him either charcoal (mix with pear baby food or applesauce and have him eat it) or baking soda water (1/4 teaspoon in a couple ounces of water) or a pepcid A/C antiacid, as these can neutralize a reaction. You would give these once a reaction started, or immediately before his exposure to a known offender (like going to the store with it's smells). If he has any motor issues at all, have a pediatric occupational therapist evaluate him. If he has any speech issues, or a history of ear infections, have a speech therapist evaluate him. At your son's age my daughter was mostly aggressive and meltdown prone (and was quite verbal), but things got worse with more 'autism' type symptoms showing up as time went on, so don't delay too much. Check out the www.gfcfdiet.com site, Kirkman's guide to digestive health at www.kirkmanlabs.com , see if you can get Karyn Seroussi's book and Dr. McCandless' book, and don't worry about finding someone to label him - find someone to help him. K. (Chime in guys, I'm sure I've forgotten many things) (sorry if redundant, I'm being bounced by twice now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Hi Your child may have the enzimes that help digest the casin or gluten bound up by the mercury. Many cases of aggression are caused by the gluten not being properly digested. I would suggest that you start a strict bluten/casen free diet to see if this helps with the aggression issues; or, if you do not want to do that, you might want to try the Peptizide Enzines made by Dr. Houston because they are real good at digesting the gluten and casen. There are many sucess stories at the Enzines and Autism group. Here is a link: Http://www.houstonni.com This may help with this issue. May God be with you, albert albert2412@... Re: [ ] Re: Is my child autistic? | I'm new to this group. I've a 2 years old boy and the last 3 months | or so he's showing some aggression towards other kids, and when it | gets worse, he would even hit adults. He've had full course of | vaccination including Hepatitis. After almost every vaccination, he'd | get sick for at least a week. I only heard about thiomersol and | mercury recently and I didn't ask for vacs without it. My wife also | has 4 amalgams. Is his behaviour tending towards autistic? Is there | anyway to check it for sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Hi Patti! It's Bill here, What you've wrote here is amazing!!!! It's like you reiterated the conditions of my son! I remembered clearly that when he was 12 months old he didn't have aggression before. He loves other kids older or same age as him and he hugs and kisses them, wasn't shy with playing with them at all. Thinking back, it's about the same time as those Hepatitis boosters shots came in that he started this behaviour problem, and shyness as well. The reason why I've come to this group for help is because I think mercury plays a huge part, and my son absolutely LOVES fish. We have had fish for him for almost every meal since he started solid. At the age of 1 he could have eaten half a small fish all my himself. We weren't aware of mercury in fish or vaccines until recently, when I myself got a hair analysis back with very high levels of mercury (I've got amalgams and just removed half of them 2 days ago). So I've been reading everything I can about mercury and it's effects. You mentioned your child is very advanced in speech, well mine is also ahead of his peers as well. So it's very confusing for us too indeed! I've cut off sugar rich junk foods for him already. And in terms of supplements I've been giving him: -multi vitmins -Chlorella (Sun Chorella A, started with 1/2 tablet and now up to 2 per day) -1 drop of Sodium Selenite which is 50mcg mixed with his milk everyday. After these supplements his behaviour problem tapered off somewhat but I want to know what else I can do to help him. Can you please tell me what enzymes you gave your child and supplements? What chelation method did you use? Please tell me as much as possible thanks! Also I almost forgot to mention: he have problems with his sleeping patterns. He almost never sleeps until mid-night, very hard to put him to sleep or his afternoon nap. Wakes frequently at night too. > -My son started hitting at 15 months right after his boosters. He was > a calm, sweet baby and then WHAM! Everytime he didnt get what he > wanted he would hit and get really angry. Over the course of the next > 6 months to a year he also started with sensory problems like not > wanting to be hugged, kissed, didnt like the smell of anything and > wanted his clothes to be warmed into the dryer. Tantrums like I never > heard before and would NOT transition or listed to anything I said. > > FOrget discipline. I took him to a child psychologist when he was 2 > who told me he was strong willed and everyone else said it was just a > bad case of terrible 2's. He was very agressive to other children and > would literally attack his sister who is 4 years older. My husband and > I would have to take shifts to stay in the same room with him at all > times. My life was a complete nightmare. > > What confused everyone is that he was very advanced in his speech and > communication. I decided to take him off casein and gluten (and soy) > on my own and we saw some improvements in his behavior and then we > started digestive enzymes while on the diet.(HNI enzymeS). We then did > a hair test and found out that he has extremely high antimony, lead, > moderatly high arsenic and more than likely mercury. We have done 8 > rounds of chelation (he is 4 now), treated bad yeast and he is MUCH > better! He plays really nicely for hours with his sister, is not > agressive anymore, listens to a command and is in a regular pre- school. > > He has to still be on enzymes (but back on a regular diet) or we > regress but not as bad as before chelation.He was diagnosed as > oppositional defiant disorder and OCD (forgot to mention that one, he > got really obsessive to the point that it would controll our whole > day) The doctor I now see feels that if we did not do the > interventions I mentioned he would have regressed into high > functioning autism or asbergers. But it is all labeled on a degree of > symptoms. > My point is I knew my child best and I knew something was not right. > There are people still that tell me nothing is wrong with him that he > is just a tuff little boy. > Patti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Can childcare refuse kids without shots? Hmmm. I never thought of that. My vote would be to investigate it, and investigate other childcare options just in case... at a very minimum, I would NOT vax within the first 6 months AT ALL, one shot at a time, three months apart, single shots only, only a shot when healthy, only get the first shots no boosters, only get single dose no preservative vials etc. But given that my little daughter (sibling to the affected child) is now showing some issues, I'm thinking that we would have been better off if we had SKIPPED the shots PERIOD! Mainly because I think she got her first mercury dose in utero, which may have set her up for having difficulty with the shots, not to mention that she got them in that first six month window, too. W > I've got another baby coming in a few months too! What should I do > with him? Ask for shots without thimersols or no shots (which the > schools / childcare may not accept him!) Any suggestions? > > Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2003 Report Share Posted January 16, 2003 Thanks for your detailed post , what's the other autism type symtoms you mentioned as they grow up? and at what stages of their development/age? Did your child have trouble going to sleep as well? >but things got worse with > more 'autism' type symptoms showing up as time went on, so don't delay too much. Check out the www.gfcfdiet.com site, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 > I'd have to check into the private day cares about shots, actually they have to have shot records but the state of Ga doesn't put any dates on it until they are of age 4, you might be able to sneak that by, as far as public schools, they can't not accept your kid w/o vaccs (in the state of Ga), you have the right as a parent to vaccinate or not, they can badger you until the cows come home but can't turn him/her away or tell you they cannot attend. I know that for certain. Karyn > From: " mycowbells <mycowbells@...> " <mycowbells@...> > Date: 2003/01/16 Thu PM 09:10:45 EST > > Subject: [ ] Re: Is my child autistic? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 My daughter had not had all of her vaccines, and she was allowed into daycare with a religous exemption. I live in Illinois. At first they didn't like it, but when I mentioned that I would persue things legally if they did not honor it, they never said another word. a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 Hello Bill, > Hi Patti! It's Bill here, As you see, I'm not Patti, so I can't answer your questions about her child. > > The reason why I've come to this group for help is because I think > mercury plays a huge part, and my son absolutely LOVES fish. We have > had fish for him for almost every meal since he started solid. At the > age of 1 he could have eaten half a small fish all my himself. We > weren't aware of mercury in fish or vaccines until recently, when I > myself got a hair analysis back with very high levels of mercury > (I've got amalgams and just removed half of them 2 days ago). So I've > been reading everything I can about mercury and it's effects. great-- good for you for finding the connections and reading more. Mercury in fish seems to get a lot more exposure/press than that from vaccines or amalgams.... but it is all " bad " . > > You mentioned your child is very advanced in speech, well mine is > also ahead of his peers as well. So it's very confusing for us too > indeed! I've cut off sugar rich junk foods for him already. And in > terms of supplements I've been giving him: > -multi vitmins > -Chlorella (Sun Chorella A, started with 1/2 tablet and now up to 2 > per day) you may want to know that chlorella has been observed to have VERY negative effect in a number of mercury-toxic people. This is the observation of Hal Huggins and Andy Cutler (independently of each other, I mean). I'm telling you this so you can consider it if you want. I use barleygreen and other " green " foods, but not chlorella, myself. > -1 drop of Sodium Selenite which is 50mcg mixed with his milk > everyday. > > After these supplements his behaviour problem tapered off somewhat > but I want to know what else I can do to help him. learning about chelation and enzymes, [as you are doing by asking], so you can decide whether to try these, is a very good idea. If you want more reading material, check here: /files/Books_about_autism best wishes, Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 My DAN dr said that no shots at all before 1 yr old. I yr is when the " blook-brain " barrier is developed. I guess before that everything that is in the blood passes thru the brain also. Maybe some other son the list with more medical kowledge can follwo-up on this. Depending what state you are in you can put children in to school without vaccinations. I am in Ohio and shots can just be against your " phylosophical " beleifs. Some states allow you to claim religious beliefs. If I could do things over I would not have had my children vaccinated at all until more testing is done to know that theya re safe. A child receives hepatitus B vac before even out of the hosp. And, about the only way a person can get Hep B is sexually. So, I don't think my babies needed it a few days after birth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 In a message dated 1/17/2003 4:13:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, plcandlez@... writes: > My DAN dr said that no shots at all before 1 yr old. I yr is when the > " blook-brain " barrier is developed. I guess before that everything that is > > in the blood I thought the blood brain barrier wasn't developed until two years of age? Anyone??? Dorothy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 | >but things got worse with more 'autism' type symptoms showing up as time went on | Thanks for your detailed post , what's the other autism type | symtoms you mentioned as they grow up? and at what stages of their | development/age? Did your child have trouble going to sleep as well? Hi, My daughter generally went downhill as time went on, showing more intolerance to change, more extreme outbursts/meltdowns, etc. She also was quite verbally advanced and obviously bright in other areas, so people tended to think there wasn't a problem other than a behavioral problem (for example, preschool teacher said 'she plays with the kitchen for a LONG time, but she knows her ABCs...' meaning there's nothing wrong with her). But she wasn't playing with others - she was extremely interested (=overfocused) on whatever interested her at the time, and would get ticked off when she finally was ready to do what the others were doing and they had moved on to something else. Her eye contact was poor, had a somewhat flat affect (lacking facial expression), and boy was she hyper. She had horrible sinus problems and an endless series of ear infections, culminating in ear tubes that did help her behavior (the second set was avoided by going diary free). She had a blocked tear duct, then developed strabismus. She was either borderline or behind with certain motor skills and didn't potty train until she was 3 years 11 months. She eventually developed what we called 'crushes' on an endless series of TV characters - Goofy, then Max, then Pochahontas, and on and on, eventually ending with a huge thing for the Titanic (=obsessions). After she got a new preschool teacher who complained about her behavior, she was evaluated by the school system for preschool services (something you could do with your son - don't most states have preschool screenings?) and they said she 'definately wasn't ADD' because she could pay attention - though she absolutely pinged off the walls the day they saw her. In other words, she had some signs and not others, and didn't fit neatly into any category. Luckily the neuro that evaluated her delcared her as 'somewhere on the spectrum' and I took that as permission to consider her in some if not every way autistic, and to begin interventions. But looking back, I now see that she was a very picky eater, intolerant of foods and chemicals, had poor motor skills with some delays, was quite pale, had thin, limp hair, dark circles under the eyes, poor stools, cloudy urine, allergies, was somewhat hypoglycemic, almost certainly had gut dysbiosis and yeast, apparently was very metals toxic - all biological markers we know are associated with autism. (And was declared as 'healthy' at her pre-K physical, at which I was told to take a parenting class!). She had huge problems getting to sleep. Her bed was toxic. Try sleeping in your child's bed and see if you react - I reacted when I slept in her bed. I posted recently on environmental interventions you can do (I'll append that at the end) to help get them to sleep, and do try the melatonin. She started to improve with dietary interventions (begun around age 6), SI therapy, Ritilin/Adderall, yeast treatment, allergy treatment, energy medicine, supplementation and detox. She's 12 now, currently upset that she hasn't made a good friend at school, but has always been in the regular classroom with some special ed. pullouts in the past. My strong impression is that earlier intervention makes a big difference in making rapid progress. If your wife is expecting, have her eat as pure a diet as possible (no junk, no additives, many veggies) and supplement fatty acids and minerals. You can buy liquid minerals and taste test them for optimal mineral supplementation. I'm sure others will have other comments. Good luck and ask again if questions, K. (Nov 21 2002) My daughter had serious sleep issues. Many things helped somewhat - we never found a single thing that solved the problem for us, but many changes added up to a child who sleeps through the night. My heart goes out to the sleepless! The GFCF diet helped, avoiding phenols helped - any dietary change may help. A low sugar, high protein, high vegetable diet helped. Antifungals helped. The fewer sinus allergy symptoms, the better she slept, so use an antihistimine if you have to. If the bedroom is carpeted, then tape a plastic drop cloth to the walls to cover the carpet and see if that helps. Ultimately remove the carpet and use cotton throw rugs that you can hot water wash. Tape plastic over the window in case smut or mold is in the window. Get a plastic matress cover and cover the matress and box spring (I've always washed these and let them air out for a few weeks before using them). I use a matress pad over the plastic for comfort. Hot water wash the pillow (and in the hot weather let it air dry to avoid clumping), then use one of those 3M or similar microfiber pillow covers. Change the pillow case if your child's hair smelled of perfume the previous night. Wash hair before bed daily with a non-scented soap (I use 'Botanic Gold'). Wash all bedding in hot water with NO detergent or fabric softener. Washing disks that work are available at www.chinaberry.com for around $50. Use pure cotton bedding, white without colors, and use Andy's suggestion of washing soda to remove the junk they add, then rewash them with hot water only. Remove all allergens and add an air cleaner to the bedroom. Try some melatonin (available via Kirkman's, GNC) to help get him to sleep. Filter bath water using a shower head filter - this reduced my daughter's hyperactivity in the PM. I have my daughter listen to 'relaxation' music at bedtime, and now if she awakens in the night she will turn it on herself. Get a good window shade and close the door - make sure that the bedroom is completely dark at night. This is very important. One final note - the psych. who originated '1-2-3 Magic' says if they awaken in the night, take them to the potty, let them go, then put them back to bed. No talking, no lights, just bladder relief. This also helped - my kid would awaken and toss and turn, join me in bed and toss and turn, for hours, rather than get up and go. I guess she didn't realize why she was being kept awake. Hope some of this helps. I could tell a story with every item I listed above... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2003 Report Share Posted January 17, 2003 This is also what we experienced. As the child becomes older, more is expected. The spectrum child can't keep up, can't handle the increasingly complex ed, behavior, social interaction and transitions expected in school and the community. Stress increases, meltdowns are bigger & louder & more frequent. Stimming/OCD type behavior increases with the frustration. Health problems pile up. (And no doubt the toxins are increasing the level of damage.) My child became more obviously ASD with each year. > | >but things got worse with more 'autism' type symptoms showing up as time went on > > | Thanks for your detailed post , what's the other autism type > | symtoms you mentioned as they grow up? and at what stages of their > | development/age? Did your child have trouble going to sleep as well? > > Hi, > > My daughter generally went downhill as time went on, showing more intolerance to change, more extreme > outbursts/meltdowns, etc. She also was quite verbally advanced and obviously bright in other areas, so people tended to > think there wasn't a problem other than a behavioral problem (for example, preschool teacher said 'she plays with the > kitchen for a LONG time, but she knows her ABCs...' meaning there's nothing wrong with her). But she wasn't playing > with others - she was extremely interested (=overfocused) on whatever interested her at the time, and would get ticked > off when she finally was ready to do what the others were doing and they had moved on to something else. Her eye > contact was poor, had a somewhat flat affect (lacking facial expression), and boy was she hyper. She had horrible sinus > problems and an endless series of ear infections, culminating in ear tubes that did help her behavior (the second set > was avoided by going diary free). She had a blocked tear duct, then developed strabismus. She was either borderline or > behind with certain motor skills and didn't potty train until she was 3 years 11 months. ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2003 Report Share Posted January 18, 2003 > A child receives hepatitus B vac before even out of the hosp. > And, about the only way a person can get Hep B is sexually. So, >I don't think my babies needed it a few days after birth. > Exactly! and it's those Hep B which they needed lots and lots of thimersol to preserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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