Re: Re: Longhorn Council Policy

[Guest guest]

Ed McGinley's comments confirm the information that I received about the

Longhorn Council from two different individuals, except for the policy about not

calling for an ambulance without prior permission from the camp director.

My information was that there were no supplies present in the health lodge

when the medics arrived for work, no budget for any, and no help from the camp

director.

I also know that various EMS services in the area were contacted and asked

to contribute supplies such as basic dressings and bandages, IV fluids and

equipment, and so forth.

My advice still stands. Look before you leap. Don't go to work for the Boy

Scouts unless you have a clear agreement in writing about who is in charge

of medical decisions.

Just today I received information from the Longhorn Council's camp in Palo

Verde county that a medic was required to transport a patient to the hospital

in his private vehicle.

I cannot begin to emphasize the potential liability of such an action

enough.

Gene Gandy

In a message dated 6/20/2004 3:47:20 PM Central Daylight Time,

alco4ever@... writes:

I worked as the camp health officer at Worth Ranch full and part

time between 1999 and 2002 during the summer session and never had a

problem calling an ambulance from Mineral Wells when I needed one. I

have also worked events at other locations in the Longhorn council.

The event described must have been the a problem on the part of the

camp director.

The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council

Ed McGinley, LP NREMT/P

[Guest guest]

It started at Dan Clifton, went to Jeff s, all the way down to the Program

Director. They said it was put into place after 2002. Email me pvt'ly Ed,

and will give you more details.

I too was advised there were supplies on site. When I got there I had NONE. (3

bandaids and 3 backboards).

I have talked to Clifton, s (3 times), and the Camp Director numerous times

in the past 2 weeks. I got absolutely no where.

In fact, I was told that I shouldnt be questioning their authority-- it was

their call and not mine, and even if there was an attempt made to contact the

camp director (as there was), and he didnt answer his radio---- and couldn't be

located, I was still required to contact him before calling EMS.

One good reason why I am no longer with Longhorn Council. They are causing the

Health Officer to violate State Law and the Standards of Care regarding their

patients.

When I turned in a supply request, it was DENIED. No funding. " We dont have

the funding to give you anything--- over the counter meds are not allowed " .

We dont have the resources.. Yet 2 sentences later I am hearing how their

budget is 1 million per year on camps. My supply list to run the Health Lodge

for 2 summers w/ leftovers for 3 season: approximately 1800.00.

When I contacted Clifton, s, and Chapman, I was told " You shouldnt have

sent that email to Cliatfton.... He doesn't like hearing how he messed up " .

Big deal. Get the council sued. Support Services " I understand where you

are coming from- I cant do anything about it though- ZERO Tollerance, and it

would undercut Clifton and Chapman's authority..............I am not even

supposed to be talking to you about this....... "

Better check with Council before you call another ambulance. I will never work

in that Council again. What is worse, is my Assistant was a Paramedic- and

started the IV, and requested I call EMS. I attempted to call the Camp

Director/Program Director on the radio 3 or more times, and then sent runners to

locate them.. Neither one of these were successful, thus I went ahead and

called EMS. I did what the higher certified personnel requested, and

attempted to follow a policy (which was never given to me- and I had NO

knowledge of), yet still was canned. Longhorn's Camp Director told me last

March- " you can call an ambulance anytime you need it----and tell me after the

fact " . When it came to time to act though, he squirrmed and claims he never

said it!

Boy Scout Oath & Law, and morals? Where are they? Evidently even the council

chooses not to follow them!!!!

For your information, I am not seeking " revenge " . I am seeking to put enough

pressure on this council to get the policy changed. I am also wanting to warn

the current members of this list the risks they are taking by being affliated

with a council that manages their medical service this way. You are putting

your patch on the line, plain and simple.

J. Hoskins

EMT/EMS Instructor

Former Health & Safety Director, Worth Ranch

Eagle Scout 7/15/95- Asst. Scoutmaster since 1996 Serving my 17th year in

the Scouting program.......

Re: Longhorn Council Policy

I worked as the camp health officer at Worth Ranch full and part

time between 1999 and 2002 during the summer session and never had a

problem calling an ambulance from Mineral Wells when I needed one. I

have also worked events at other locations in the Longhorn council.

The event described must have been the a problem on the part of the

camp director.

The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council

Ed McGinley, LP NREMT/P

[Guest guest]

It started at Dan Clifton, went to Jeff s, all the way down to the Program

Director. They said it was put into place after 2002. Email me pvt'ly Ed,

and will give you more details.

I too was advised there were supplies on site. When I got there I had NONE. (3

bandaids and 3 backboards).

I have talked to Clifton, s (3 times), and the Camp Director numerous times

in the past 2 weeks. I got absolutely no where.

In fact, I was told that I shouldnt be questioning their authority-- it was

their call and not mine, and even if there was an attempt made to contact the

camp director (as there was), and he didnt answer his radio---- and couldn't be

located, I was still required to contact him before calling EMS.

One good reason why I am no longer with Longhorn Council. They are causing the

Health Officer to violate State Law and the Standards of Care regarding their

patients.

When I turned in a supply request, it was DENIED. No funding. " We dont have

the funding to give you anything--- over the counter meds are not allowed " .

We dont have the resources.. Yet 2 sentences later I am hearing how their

budget is 1 million per year on camps. My supply list to run the Health Lodge

for 2 summers w/ leftovers for 3 season: approximately 1800.00.

When I contacted Clifton, s, and Chapman, I was told " You shouldnt have

sent that email to Cliatfton.... He doesn't like hearing how he messed up " .

Big deal. Get the council sued. Support Services " I understand where you

are coming from- I cant do anything about it though- ZERO Tollerance, and it

would undercut Clifton and Chapman's authority..............I am not even

supposed to be talking to you about this....... "

Better check with Council before you call another ambulance. I will never work

in that Council again. What is worse, is my Assistant was a Paramedic- and

started the IV, and requested I call EMS. I attempted to call the Camp

Director/Program Director on the radio 3 or more times, and then sent runners to

locate them.. Neither one of these were successful, thus I went ahead and

called EMS. I did what the higher certified personnel requested, and

attempted to follow a policy (which was never given to me- and I had NO

knowledge of), yet still was canned. Longhorn's Camp Director told me last

March- " you can call an ambulance anytime you need it----and tell me after the

fact " . When it came to time to act though, he squirrmed and claims he never

said it!

Boy Scout Oath & Law, and morals? Where are they? Evidently even the council

chooses not to follow them!!!!

For your information, I am not seeking " revenge " . I am seeking to put enough

pressure on this council to get the policy changed. I am also wanting to warn

the current members of this list the risks they are taking by being affliated

with a council that manages their medical service this way. You are putting

your patch on the line, plain and simple.

J. Hoskins

EMT/EMS Instructor

Former Health & Safety Director, Worth Ranch

Eagle Scout 7/15/95- Asst. Scoutmaster since 1996 Serving my 17th year in

the Scouting program.......

Re: Longhorn Council Policy

I worked as the camp health officer at Worth Ranch full and part

time between 1999 and 2002 during the summer session and never had a

problem calling an ambulance from Mineral Wells when I needed one. I

have also worked events at other locations in the Longhorn council.

The event described must have been the a problem on the part of the

camp director.

The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council

Ed McGinley, LP NREMT/P

[Guest guest]

Gene, policy changed about the calling of EMS after Ed left..... According to

Longhorn. In fact, Ed was mentioned by name when I talked to them.

Palo Pinto County....Not Palo Verde :-)

jh

Re: Re: Longhorn Council Policy

Ed McGinley's comments confirm the information that I received about the

Longhorn Council from two different individuals, except for the policy about

not

calling for an ambulance without prior permission from the camp director.

My information was that there were no supplies present in the health lodge

when the medics arrived for work, no budget for any, and no help from the camp

director.

I also know that various EMS services in the area were contacted and asked

to contribute supplies such as basic dressings and bandages, IV fluids and

equipment, and so forth.

My advice still stands. Look before you leap. Don't go to work for the Boy

Scouts unless you have a clear agreement in writing about who is in charge

of medical decisions.

Just today I received information from the Longhorn Council's camp in Palo

Verde county that a medic was required to transport a patient to the hospital

in his private vehicle.

I cannot begin to emphasize the potential liability of such an action

enough.

Gene Gandy

In a message dated 6/20/2004 3:47:20 PM Central Daylight Time,

alco4ever@... writes:

I worked as the camp health officer at Worth Ranch full and part

time between 1999 and 2002 during the summer session and never had a

problem calling an ambulance from Mineral Wells when I needed one. I

have also worked events at other locations in the Longhorn council.

The event described must have been the a problem on the part of the

camp director.

The major problem I saw in the Longhorn Council was a lack of policy

and prcoedure manual for the health officers. I would have worked

2003 but refused the position when two weeks before summer camp was

to start they finally notified me they would need me (I interviewed

in February) and at that time they had no medical supplies nor did

they have a budget for them. I was told there were supplies on site,

but had talked to the ranger two weeks before and was advised there

were none.

I was also cincerned with liability issues they couldn't deal with.

Hvwing trained medical personnel on site when campers are there for

any activity is a very low priority for the Longhorn Counicl and has

been for the 8 years I have been associated with it. I used to work

as the health officer for some district events but with one exception

was expeted to provide my own supplies (at my cost and I was also

volunteering)

Dan Clifton the council exec and his staff don't know a paramedic

from an EMT nor from a Red Cross First Aid person.

I would stay away from dealings with this council

Ed McGinley, LP NREMT/P