Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 And the books are all about jealousy too - it was completely unexpected when DS1 said he loved his new baby sister (Mum's immediate guilt trip - I must be doing something wrong - he's supposed to be jealous!) Oh, and keep the article, may come in handy for pn discussions! Actually, we had a very interesting discussion a while back, with 2 second timers who were unsure about going back, not just for practical reasons, like childcare costing more than they were likely to earn, but also because a career didn't *matter* so much to them personally any more. Over the years, I've also noticed a lot of friends who've re-trained to do something else once the 'babies' were at school - often more 'people' and less 'high-flying-career'. Could be just a generation thing though? Diz Still SAHM Pete & Lesley Reader wrote: > > There is an interesting item in Saturday’s Daily Telegraph about the changes > that a family undergoes when the second baby arrives. It can often impact > more than the first one and coping with two children may be difficult. > There is very little in baby books about dealing with two youngsters apart > from ‘Read to the toddler while the baby is feeding’ Its also harder for > working mums and more mums give up after the second baby because of the > problems. > > Lesley > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 And the books are all about jealousy too - it was completely unexpected when DS1 said he loved his new baby sister (Mum's immediate guilt trip - I must be doing something wrong - he's supposed to be jealous!) Oh, and keep the article, may come in handy for pn discussions! Actually, we had a very interesting discussion a while back, with 2 second timers who were unsure about going back, not just for practical reasons, like childcare costing more than they were likely to earn, but also because a career didn't *matter* so much to them personally any more. Over the years, I've also noticed a lot of friends who've re-trained to do something else once the 'babies' were at school - often more 'people' and less 'high-flying-career'. Could be just a generation thing though? Diz Still SAHM Pete & Lesley Reader wrote: > > There is an interesting item in Saturday’s Daily Telegraph about the changes > that a family undergoes when the second baby arrives. It can often impact > more than the first one and coping with two children may be difficult. > There is very little in baby books about dealing with two youngsters apart > from ‘Read to the toddler while the baby is feeding’ Its also harder for > working mums and more mums give up after the second baby because of the > problems. > > Lesley > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 I don't think this is necessarily a generation thing. I think it is because, once you have children, things which were crucial to your " being " previously, just don't seem to matter anymore. Having children makes you more of a " people " person in every way, so it would be natural to shed the less-involving " high-flying " bit for something more meaningful. Alison Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee more. Over the years, I've also noticed a lot of friends who've re-trained to do something else once the 'babies' were at school - often more 'people' and less 'high-flying-career'. Could be just a generation thing though? Diz Still SAHM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 I don't think this is necessarily a generation thing. I think it is because, once you have children, things which were crucial to your " being " previously, just don't seem to matter anymore. Having children makes you more of a " people " person in every way, so it would be natural to shed the less-involving " high-flying " bit for something more meaningful. Alison Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee more. Over the years, I've also noticed a lot of friends who've re-trained to do something else once the 'babies' were at school - often more 'people' and less 'high-flying-career'. Could be just a generation thing though? Diz Still SAHM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 >And the books are all about jealousy too - it was completely unexpected >when DS1 said he loved his new baby sister (Mum's immediate guilt trip - >I must be doing something wrong - he's supposed to be jealous!) Yes I was expecting jealousy too - even went to a HV run session on how to deal with it. But has shown not a hint of jealousy and often says how he loves his sister. I have a friend who's 2 year old was so jealous he would hit his baby sister and pull her (abundant) hair. After Caitlin was born, this friend was very eager for me to have the same problems, and was quite disappointed when I didn't. However, I have noticed some " new " (and annoying) behaviour from since she came along - though this has probably got as much to do with his age as anything else. McVeigh Newsletter Editor & Secretary, Leighton Buzzard & District SAHM to (AKA Tiff Toff) the pantophobic, DOB 19/9/97 & Caitlin (AKA Cake Tin) the suckaholic, DOB 12/1/00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 >And the books are all about jealousy too - it was completely unexpected >when DS1 said he loved his new baby sister (Mum's immediate guilt trip - >I must be doing something wrong - he's supposed to be jealous!) Yes I was expecting jealousy too - even went to a HV run session on how to deal with it. But has shown not a hint of jealousy and often says how he loves his sister. I have a friend who's 2 year old was so jealous he would hit his baby sister and pull her (abundant) hair. After Caitlin was born, this friend was very eager for me to have the same problems, and was quite disappointed when I didn't. However, I have noticed some " new " (and annoying) behaviour from since she came along - though this has probably got as much to do with his age as anything else. McVeigh Newsletter Editor & Secretary, Leighton Buzzard & District SAHM to (AKA Tiff Toff) the pantophobic, DOB 19/9/97 & Caitlin (AKA Cake Tin) the suckaholic, DOB 12/1/00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 Diz writes, >Over the years, I've also noticed a lot of friends who've > re-trained to do something else once the 'babies' were at school - often > more 'people' and less 'high-flying-career'. Could be just a generation > thing though? Hmm, this is interesting. I have several friends who have no intention of returning to their previous jobs now they've had babies. I spent my childhood and adolescence having the idea that I should be out there working and having a 'proper career' rammed down my throat by my mother (because the parents split up when I was 15 and she had to retrain to find a decent job). As a consequence (being a contrary sort) I had no real desire to have a 'high-flying' sort of career after university, just wanted to work with horses and pod lots of babies! My sister is exactly the same - she works for Virgin (btw , was it you who had a crap flight with them? I was telling her about it over lunch and if you give me a shout offlist I have some suggestions for you!) and is getting married next year and dying to get pregnant and be a full time SAHM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 I didn't experience any major jealousy from mine towards each younger sibling until the younger one became mobile, etc. Up until then I suppose the baby had been a reasonably interesting blob who seemed to be stuck to mummy's chest most of the time, but, once mobile, became less interesting and more annoying. Even now the older two are quite protective and considerate towards DS3, but woe betide him if he interferes in their games or ruins their Brio track, etc. Although there is some rivalry between DS1 and DS2 (mainly due to DS2 trying to dominate everything), there still isn't much jealousy. Alison Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee Yes I was expecting jealousy too - even went to a HV run session on how to deal with it. But has shown not a hint of jealousy and often says how he loves his sister. I have a friend who's 2 year old was so jealous he would hit his baby sister and pull her (abundant) hair. After Caitlin was born, this friend was very eager for me to have the same problems, and was quite disappointed when I didn't. However, I have noticed some " new " (and annoying) behaviour from since she came along - though this has probably got as much to do with his age as anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 Like NCT? Training as a pndl? Diz Still meaningful after all these years :-))) alison.simmons wrote: > Having children makes you more of a " people " person in every way, so it would be natural to shed the less-involving " high-flying " bit for something more meaningful. > > Alison > Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 There's almost 4 years between my first two. At age 3, DS1 (the eldest) had problems settling at playgroup - I remember thinking at the time that if I'd just had a baby, I'd have assumed it was because of her, rather than looking for the real reasons (ie, the organisation of that particular playgroup :-( Diz McVeigh wrote: > > However, I have noticed some " new " (and annoying) behaviour from > since she came along - though this has probably got as much to do with his > age as anything else. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 Very probably. I can't imagine going back to my previous career as a lawyer. I just don't believe it is compatible with being there for the children when they need me and I don't feel that I would have the commitment necessary to make the job successful. I have been mulling over a number of other options, but haven't hit on anything yet, possibly because there is no immediate need or opportunity. What really annoys me though is the low status accorded to *any* job which is either unpaid or low paid. My parents jump through hoops to help out my younger sister, who took on a paid job before she was in a position to do so (only eldest child at school full-time), but I had to give up my bfc training because my parents thought unpaid work was less important. Next time the subject comes up, I'll have to ask them what their views are on that incredibly low paid job, full-time motherhood. Alison Chair, Maidstone branch and PNDL trainee Like NCT? Training as a pndl? Diz Still meaningful after all these years :-))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 I agree! The jump from one to two children I found was the hardest.Also after DD1 was born I gave up work. Just couldn't juggle work, two children and finding time for each as indviduals. The move from 2 - 3 and 3-4 was easy in comparison, and now have found job that allows me to spend time with children and only work when DH is home so don't use childminders!!! Suits me Dixon NCT teacher/MSLC rep mum to 8, Jasmin 6, Polly 5, & Keira 2 PARENTHOOD IS THE GREATEST SINGLE PRESERVE OF THE AMATEUR.... Second time around > > . It can often impact > more than the first one and coping with two children may be difficult. > > Its also harder for > working mums and more mums give up after the second baby because of the > problems. > > Lesley > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 " alison.simmons " wrote: I don't think this is necessarily a generation thing. I think it is because, once you have children, things which were crucial to your " being " previously, just don't seem to matter anymore. Having children makes you more of a " people " person in every way, so it would be natural to shed the less-involving " high-flying " bit for something more meaningful. Alison You do have a point there. When I took voluntary redundance from the Electricity Industry and was unemployed for a while before working in special educational needs, I did an in depth series of psychometric tests arranged by the careers office to help people identify their strengths & weaknesses (at a cost of £40 IIRC). I was taken aback to find I was recommended to work in the health sector, as I saw myself then very much as a career assessment co-ordinator in specialist situations (environmental impact etc). What am I now? A nearly-qualified BFC doing voluntary work in the community - just the sort of thing those tests said I should be doing! Lesley Moor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 : The jump from one to two children I found was the hardest. : (feeling sorry for herself) And I found there was much less support generally. All the willing helpers from the first time round seemed to think " she's done it all before, she'll be OK! " . It really is more than twice the amount of work. DS was so different to DD, I think it really backfired on me having had one before. I expected him to be reacting in the same way has she had done, and of course he didn't. It was like learning from scratch. Apart from you had to un-learn stuff first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 : The jump from one to two children I found was the hardest. : (feeling sorry for herself) And I found there was much less support generally. All the willing helpers from the first time round seemed to think " she's done it all before, she'll be OK! " . It really is more than twice the amount of work. DS was so different to DD, I think it really backfired on me having had one before. I expected him to be reacting in the same way has she had done, and of course he didn't. It was like learning from scratch. Apart from you had to un-learn stuff first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 25, 2000 Report Share Posted April 25, 2000 : The jump from one to two children I found was the hardest. : (feeling sorry for herself) And I found there was much less support generally. All the willing helpers from the first time round seemed to think " she's done it all before, she'll be OK! " . It really is more than twice the amount of work. DS was so different to DD, I think it really backfired on me having had one before. I expected him to be reacting in the same way has she had done, and of course he didn't. It was like learning from scratch. Apart from you had to un-learn stuff first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 I did loads of " preparation " with DD1 when pregnant with DS; talking to her about babies, talking about how she might feel, reading books etc. Made not a scrap of difference she still hugely resented him as an interloper. I couldn't leave them alone together when he was tiny because she would slap him. Its only as his communications skills have improved and they can play together that she has grown to appreciate him and yesterday she came back indoors in a real temper with the kids up the road because they were teasing her little brother! Neither of them are in the last bit jealous of DD2 as they are now both used to sharing me but interestingly DD2 does not like anyone else coming to Mummy for a cuddle- even Daddy! Lesley Chair/ANT Worthing NCT Branch Mum to Emma 8, Kieran 4 and Carys 21m " Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose " ---------- > > >And the books are all about jealousy too - it was completely unexpected > >when DS1 said he loved his new baby sister (Mum's immediate guilt trip - > >I must be doing something wrong - he's supposed to be jealous!) > > > Yes I was expecting jealousy too - even went to a HV run session on how to > deal with it. But has shown not a hint of jealousy and often > says how he loves his sister. I have a friend who's 2 year old was so > jealous he would hit his baby sister and pull her (abundant) hair. After > Caitlin was born, this friend was very eager for me to have the same > problems, and was quite disappointed when I didn't. > >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 >: (feeling sorry for herself) And I found there was much less support >generally. All the willing helpers from the first time round seemed to >think " she's done it all before, she'll be OK! " . When I was pregnant with Caitlin, our branch p-n support co-ordinator asked if I'd like to join a p-n support group. I declined - I thought it inappropriate seeing as I had been p-n supporter myself. Anyway, since she was born, I have sort of regretted this decision, as I don't know anyone else locally with a baby the same age, and I really appreciated the mutual support from other new mums last time. But I think, had I joined a p-n group, it would have had to be a first time mums group (as our branch don't currently offer a-n refresher classes) and as a second timer, I probably wouldn't have gelled in quite the same way. Quite apart from having to take a toddler along to meetings, which would have been off-putting to the new mums, I find that second time mums can be quite condescending to new mums, and this would have been me for sure! McVeigh Newsletter Editor & Secretary, Leighton Buzzard & District SAHM to (AKA Tiff Toff) the pantophobic, DOB 19/9/97 & Caitlin (AKA Cake Tin) the suckaholic, DOB 12/1/00 Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=697874 & a=5085964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 So can I ask a sort of 'business' question, with a pn 'hat'? What can/should NCT do for second time mothers? I read somewhere about a lot of mothers going back to work after #1, then becoming SAHM after #2. They may well not go through classes, but they're probably out there, perhaps needing support, certainly needing the opportunity to compile a newsletter or run a NNS ;-) Any thoughts? Diz postnatal McVeigh wrote: > > >: (feeling sorry for herself) And I found there was much less support > >generally. All the willing helpers from the first time round seemed to > >think " she's done it all before, she'll be OK! " . > > When I was pregnant with Caitlin, our branch p-n support co-ordinator asked > if I'd like to join a p-n support group. I declined - I thought it > inappropriate seeing as I had been p-n supporter myself. Anyway, since she > was born, I have sort of regretted this decision, as I don't know anyone > else locally with a baby the same age, and I really appreciated the mutual > support from other new mums last time. > > But I think, had I joined a p-n group, it would have had to be a first time > mums group (as our branch don't currently offer a-n refresher classes) and > as a second timer, I probably wouldn't have gelled in quite the same way. > Quite apart from having to take a toddler along to meetings, which would > have been off-putting to the new mums, I find that second time mums can be > quite condescending to new mums, and this would have been me for sure! > > > > McVeigh > Newsletter Editor & Secretary, Leighton Buzzard & District > SAHM to (AKA Tiff Toff) the pantophobic, DOB 19/9/97 > & Caitlin (AKA Cake Tin) the suckaholic, DOB 12/1/00 > Photo Album: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=697874 & a=5085964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 >So can I ask a sort of 'business' question, with a pn 'hat'? Can we x-post this into nct@, please? -- Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 >So can I ask a sort of 'business' question, with a pn 'hat'? Can we x-post this into nct@, please? -- Sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 Done - slightly amended wording, for those on both lists! Diz Sue Woollett wrote: > > >So can I ask a sort of 'business' question, with a pn 'hat'? > > Can we x-post this into nct@, please? > > -- > Sue > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 In message , steve.meredith@... writes >I read somewhere about a lot >of mothers going back to work after #1, then becoming SAHM after #2. >They may well not go through classes, but they're probably out there, >perhaps needing support, certainly needing the opportunity to compile a >newsletter or run a NNS ;-) >Any thoughts? And lots of 2nd time mums would probably quite like another set of classes, especially those who only had NHS... In this area, 2nd and subsequent timers are not accepted onto a NHS set - even those who missed most of the first set because antenatal appointments were scheduled for the same afternoon (this practise only ceased locally three months ago, with the move of classes to the community) - necessitating that they be in two places at once! It's quite good for the branch as we pick up a few of these... but quite often our waiting list is such that 1st time parents get preference. We don't ever have enough requests to justify running top- up courses (or so I've been told . -- Helen Armfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 I had *only* NHS classes first time round. I wanted to do NCT classes with my second, but the refresher courses were only for mums who had already done NCT classes, so I didn't qualify. So off I went to NHS classes again. I also went to NHS classes with my fourth. Joyce New! Bahamas photos: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=170356 & a=5021598 > > And lots of 2nd time mums would probably quite like another set of > classes, especially those who only had NHS... > > In this area, 2nd and subsequent timers are not accepted onto a NHS set > - even those who missed most of the first set because antenatal > appointments were scheduled for the same afternoon (this practise only > ceased locally three months ago, with the move of classes to the > community) - necessitating that they be in two places at once! > > It's quite good for the branch as we pick up a few of these... but > quite often our waiting list is such that 1st time parents get > preference. We don't ever have enough requests to justify running top- > up courses (or so I've been told . > -- > Helen Armfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2000 Report Share Posted April 26, 2000 I think this is appalling, we offer " subsequent Mums " courses for anyone on a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc pregnancy who wants to take them up, unfortunately our take-up is not huge. Cerys Byrne Basingstoke Branch Chairman, Membership Secretary & Exp Reg holder Mum to 1/12/95 & Kieran 31/12/98 Re: Second time around > I had *only* NHS classes first time round. I wanted to do NCT classes with > my second, but the refresher courses were only for mums who had already done > NCT classes, so I didn't qualify. > So off I went to NHS classes again. I also went to NHS classes with my > fourth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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