EMSAT

[Guest guest]

That or just plain stupidity, in my case six of one kind or half case of

another...

LT

RE: EMSAT

You been around those tall pine tree jungles in East Texas for too long. You

can't see the forest for the trees. LOL

Jane

[Guest guest]

Donn,

As always, I'm enjoying the give and take. You epitomize the example of

being a gentleman in disagreements. It's such a refreshing change from the

usual list garbage of " you're a bad medic/person if you don't subscribe to my

personal agenda. "

I'm more than willing to give this new board a chance. I realize that

Rome wasn't built in a day. If I might suggest it, I think having an EMSAT board

member post a weekly update to the website or the Texas EMS list would go a

long ways towards showing that the new EMSAT board is dedicated to keeping the

rest of the community informed.

I don't want to sound overly critical, but if EMSAT gives the EMS

community concrete reasons, based on facts rather than on emotional appeals,

shrill

warnings of impending doom, and shame, the support will come. Of course, I

realize that no one person can always speak for EMSAT, but some of the " old

guard "

and others at first went very personal in their attacks on list members who

have concerns about EMSAT.

I know several of the board members, and know that they are good people.

I hope that the board will take the steps necessary to show us that the " new "

EMSAT is a professional organization with a solid agenda for today and the

future. When I see continued progress in that direction, I'll gladly jump on

board.

Yours truly,

Wes Ogilvie, resident cynic and skeptic

[Guest guest]

> EMSAT doesn't need a PIO or a press secretary.

> However, you don't need a press secretary or PIO

Some of us have been strong advocates of enhanced communications for

years. All of the ideashave been discussed in the past and will

probably receive much greater consideration now that the new board is

installed. All I ask is for you guys cease raising the specter of the

old and try to give the new a chance.

> I will give EMSAT some credit towards undoing

> a lot of the damage from HB2292. That is a major

> feather

More important than most folks in EMS will ever realize.

> EMSAT has, rightly or wrongly, been seen as the

> voice of one or two people.

Again, that was the old. This is the new. All this board needs is a

little time and a little support.

> I look forward to seeing EMSAT's board taking

> the time and effort to regain the trust of the

> skeptics and cynics.

Are you not seeing that in the recent posts of board members to this

list?

> Also, Donn, I would like to know your

> thoughts regarding the telemarketing issue.

I abhor it but recognize that the only way EMSAT has managed to

accomplish anything is due to the money it has brought. If it were up

to me we would have searched until we found other alternatives, but it

wasn't up to me. In my opinion it was a bad choice. The path of least

resistance.

> Did the current board approve the telemarketing?

> Or was this done by the previous board?

I really don't know. Some of the current members have been on the board

for a few years so I suppose we can assume some of them approved in the

past. I am unsure how many would vote for it today but I'd bet it would

never pass. I hope they don't prove me wrong when this contract expires.

> I hope that you understand my concerns with EMSAT.

I thoroughly understand your concerns as they are mine as well.

However, while you choose to remain on the outside calling for change

before contributing your money I choose to join and work for the

desired change. Do you see the results of such a tact? Participation

and persistence pays off in spades.

> Does EMSAT have a legislative agenda

Someone else will have to answer that question as I've not kept up with

it. I'm not a member of the board and only find time for about half of

the meetings.

This has been a productive debate and I've enjoyed it greatly.

Regards,

Donn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" The creation of something new is not accomplished by the

intellect, but by the play instinct acting from inner necessity. The

creative mind plays with the things it loves. "

~~ Carl Gustav Jung ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2004

www.EMStock.com

[Guest guest]

Wes Ogilvie, resident cynic and skeptic says:

> You epitomize the example of being a gentleman

> in disagreements.

There are folks out there rolling on the floor laughing right now at

the mere thought of me being called a gentleman.

> I'm more than willing to give this new board a

> chance. I realize that Rome wasn't built in a day.

The board, I'm certain, will appreciate the chance to prove themselves.

I know I do, and I have complete faith in each and every one of them.

These folks have the best interest of EMS in their collective hearts

and I see great things coming from EMSAT in the future.

> If I might suggest it, I think having an EMSAT

> board member post a weekly update to the website

> or the Texas EMS list

Wes, what you suggest sounds perfectly reasonable - until you look at

the constraints these folks are under. Lets look at a few of them:

The President, , is the director of an EMS service, is a very

involved member of GETAC and has a family. All this in addition to his

EMSAT activities.

Do you know a more involved individual than Gene Gandy?

Al wears more hats and sits in more board and committee chairs

than anyone I know, plus he is a full-time fire fighter, paramedic and

runs a college education program.

Phil Reynolds, in addition to being involved in GETAC, TEMSF, EMStock

and EMSAT also works two 24/48 jobs.

Jane Hill runs a small, hospital based service in the Big Country area.

In addition to her considerable EMSAT responsibilities she also is

involved in GETAC, her local RAC, and is deeply involved in various

training activities.

is involved in the RAC's and GETAC and was instrumental

in developing the EMSAT response to HB-2292. He also runs an EMS

service.

Scarborough is also involved in the RAC's and runs an EMS service.

Until recently he was the EMSAT secretary, spending enormous amounts of

time in that capacity. He also chairs the bylaws committee and is

working on bylaw revisions.

Randell Pitts is involved in TEMSF, EMStock and works full time as a

flight medic.

All of the above illustrates why a PIO would be nice. These folks don't

have the time to fulfill your suggestion and I do not feel we can ask

them to do *all* the work required to make EMSAT functional. They need

volunteer help instead of consultants sitting on the sidelines,

offering advice instead of becoming involved. The same thing has been

true of TEMSF and EMStock. Lots of folks have been willing to tell us

how to do it, but far too few have gotten their hands dirty actually

making it happen.

The old axe " fish or cut bait " comes to mind.

> I don't want to sound overly critical, but

> if EMSAT gives the EMS community concrete

> reasons, based on facts rather than on

> emotional appeals, shrill warnings of

> impending doom, and shame, the support

> will come.

There have been plenty of concrete facts posted to this list and other

forums, and plenty of emotion as well. The facts have been overlooked

(as evidenced by the number of times questions are repeated) and the

emotion misconstrued. The emotion you read here comes from the hearts

of individuals who give of themselves until it hurts - and then give a

little more.

> some of the " old guard " and others at first went

> very personal in their attacks on list members

> who have concerns about EMSAT.

I didn't like that either and said as much. I could have taken your

tact and sat the whole thing out telling them they had to prove

themselves, but I didn't. I decided to fight fire with fire and joined

the association. By being involved I was able to work for change.

Recent events prove (to me at least) that I made the correct choice.

Those voices are now silenced.

> When I see continued progress in that

> direction, I'll gladly jump on board.

If you would jump on board now you could help them from within - maybe

facilitate their work by carrying some of the load. Perhaps you could

be the one issuing the weekly releases the would satisfy the

requirements you place on EMSAT. Suggestions from the outside are

welcome as far as I am concerned, but a pair of willing hands are more

welcome. Work from within and you will soon see how difficult it is to

satisfy this kind of demand.

Regards,

Donn

(fellow skeptic and one who enjoys a reasonable debate)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education. "

~~ Mizner ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2004

www.EMStock.com

[Guest guest]

Well, Donn and others. I've just given you 35 reasons to succeed. Let's

hope that my contribution makes a difference.

Mike

Re: EMSAT

Wes Ogilvie, resident cynic and skeptic says:

> You epitomize the example of being a gentleman

> in disagreements.

There are folks out there rolling on the floor laughing right now at

the mere thought of me being called a gentleman.

> I'm more than willing to give this new board a

> chance. I realize that Rome wasn't built in a day.

The board, I'm certain, will appreciate the chance to prove themselves.

I know I do, and I have complete faith in each and every one of them.

These folks have the best interest of EMS in their collective hearts

and I see great things coming from EMSAT in the future.

> If I might suggest it, I think having an EMSAT

> board member post a weekly update to the website

> or the Texas EMS list

Wes, what you suggest sounds perfectly reasonable - until you look at

the constraints these folks are under. Lets look at a few of them:

The President, , is the director of an EMS service, is a very

involved member of GETAC and has a family. All this in addition to his

EMSAT activities.

Do you know a more involved individual than Gene Gandy?

Al wears more hats and sits in more board and committee chairs

than anyone I know, plus he is a full-time fire fighter, paramedic and

runs a college education program.

Phil Reynolds, in addition to being involved in GETAC, TEMSF, EMStock

and EMSAT also works two 24/48 jobs.

Jane Hill runs a small, hospital based service in the Big Country area.

In addition to her considerable EMSAT responsibilities she also is

involved in GETAC, her local RAC, and is deeply involved in various

training activities.

is involved in the RAC's and GETAC and was instrumental

in developing the EMSAT response to HB-2292. He also runs an EMS

service.

Scarborough is also involved in the RAC's and runs an EMS service.

Until recently he was the EMSAT secretary, spending enormous amounts of

time in that capacity. He also chairs the bylaws committee and is

working on bylaw revisions.

Randell Pitts is involved in TEMSF, EMStock and works full time as a

flight medic.

All of the above illustrates why a PIO would be nice. These folks don't

have the time to fulfill your suggestion and I do not feel we can ask

them to do *all* the work required to make EMSAT functional. They need

volunteer help instead of consultants sitting on the sidelines,

offering advice instead of becoming involved. The same thing has been

true of TEMSF and EMStock. Lots of folks have been willing to tell us

how to do it, but far too few have gotten their hands dirty actually

making it happen.

The old axe " fish or cut bait " comes to mind.

> I don't want to sound overly critical, but

> if EMSAT gives the EMS community concrete

> reasons, based on facts rather than on

> emotional appeals, shrill warnings of

> impending doom, and shame, the support

> will come.

There have been plenty of concrete facts posted to this list and other

forums, and plenty of emotion as well. The facts have been overlooked

(as evidenced by the number of times questions are repeated) and the

emotion misconstrued. The emotion you read here comes from the hearts

of individuals who give of themselves until it hurts - and then give a

little more.

> some of the " old guard " and others at first went

> very personal in their attacks on list members

> who have concerns about EMSAT.

I didn't like that either and said as much. I could have taken your

tact and sat the whole thing out telling them they had to prove

themselves, but I didn't. I decided to fight fire with fire and joined

the association. By being involved I was able to work for change.

Recent events prove (to me at least) that I made the correct choice.

Those voices are now silenced.

> When I see continued progress in that

> direction, I'll gladly jump on board.

If you would jump on board now you could help them from within - maybe

facilitate their work by carrying some of the load. Perhaps you could

be the one issuing the weekly releases the would satisfy the

requirements you place on EMSAT. Suggestions from the outside are

welcome as far as I am concerned, but a pair of willing hands are more

welcome. Work from within and you will soon see how difficult it is to

satisfy this kind of demand.

Regards,

Donn

(fellow skeptic and one who enjoys a reasonable debate)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

D.E. (Donn) , LP, NREMT-P

" I respect faith, but doubt is what gets you an education. "

~~ Mizner ~~

Don't Miss EMStock 2004

www.EMStock.com

[Guest guest]

Let me make a few points:

1) Now that you've called me names, do you feel better? I'm deeply

wounded, and may never be the same again, but there is always therapy.

2) Let's get the whole quote here (are you a journalist? the partial

quote thing is a favorite tactic of journalists).

Yes, I first did say:

" Non-members have not earned the right to make suggestions. "

Then, 8 MINUTES LATER, before hardly ANYONE had read that comment, I

posted this:

" That sounded harsher than intended. But comments and suggestions are

made to IMPROVE the orgainzation. And if a person wants to improve

EMSAT, why are they not members? It just seems a little hypocritical to

me. Which is why I joined at this time, after not doing ot for a long

while, but intending to. "

3) I DO NOT SPEAK FOR EMSAT. I just joined myself. And why? Because I

felt guilty and hypocritical aobut being critical (and I have) or even

making suggestions to an orgainzation I didn't even belong to! Now

again, SPEAKING ONLY FOR ME, it seems unfair to criticize something I'm

not part of. Sort of , " I don't want to join, and I won't help, but

here's what YOU GUYS need to do " .

So, talk bad about me all you want, I'm a big boy and can take it I

guess (no one likes getting called names, and " arrogant and

self-centered " is at least better than being called Jim !). But

make your decisions about joining or not on the facts, and on what you

can do to help. I'm not necessarily representative of EMSAT. So don't

let me be a convenient excuse either.

=Steve=

medic427 wrote:

>The comment from EMSAT member Steve , " Non-members have not

>earned the right to make suggestions " at least has made a decision

>for me not to join for sure. I have to put up with arrogant, self-

>centered people enough as it is. If EMSAT or any other organization

>is going to make it in Texas(elsewhere), they have to represent all

>and should take suggestions from all. Yes, paying members will make

>the organization stronger and yes, the paying members should be the

>only ones who vote on issues, but to say that " Non-members have not

>earned the right to make suggestions " , is not going to win points

>trying to increase the membership.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

But do you have an amazing Ginsu knife or french fry maker as a bonus?

If not, forget it.

=Steve=

wegandy1938@... wrote:

>You never know the full extent of your injuries until you've been examined by

>a competent Plaintiff's attorney. Your wounds must be terribly painful, both

>emotionally and physically, and I am sure that you now suffer from inability

>to sleep, concentrate at work, participate in procreation procedures, and have

>lost your appetite. Weight gains and losses are to be expected. A new

>wardrobe will be necessary. The prognosis is VERY clouded, and you'll need

intense

>therapy for many years to come. I see MILLIONS in this case.

>

>Please call me at your earliest convenience for a fee and representation

>contract.

>

>BUT WAIT! There's more. If you call within the next 5 minutes we'll include

>a Last Will and Testament, a $159.95 value, at no extra charge.

>

>Sincerely.

>

>W. E. Beatum

>Beatum, Cheatum and Howe

>Attorneys at Law

>

>In a message dated 3/31/2004 1:05:44 PM Central Standard Time,

>paramedic1@... writes:

>Let me make a few points:

>

>1) Now that you've called me names, do you feel better? I'm deeply

>wounded, and may never be the same again, but there is always therapy.

>2) Let's get the whole quote here (are you a journalist? the partial

>quote thing is a favorite tactic of journalists).

>Yes, I first did say:

> " Non-members have not earned the right to make suggestions. "

>Then, 8 MINUTES LATER, before hardly ANYONE had read that comment, I

>posted this:

> " That sounded harsher than intended. But comments and suggestions are

>made to IMPROVE the orgainzation. And if a person wants to improve

>EMSAT, why are they not members? It just seems a little hypocritical to

>me. Which is why I joined at this time, after not doing ot for a long

>while, but intending to. "

>

>3) I DO NOT SPEAK FOR EMSAT. I just joined myself. And why? Because I

>felt guilty and hypocritical aobut being critical (and I have) or even

>making suggestions to an orgainzation I didn't even belong to! Now

>again, SPEAKING ONLY FOR ME, it seems unfair to criticize something I'm

>not part of. Sort of , " I don't want to join, and I won't help, but

>here's what YOU GUYS need to do " .

>

>So, talk bad about me all you want, I'm a big boy and can take it I

>guess (no one likes getting called names, and " arrogant and

>self-centered " is at least better than being called Jim !). But

>make your decisions about joining or not on the facts, and on what you

>can do to help. I'm not necessarily representative of EMSAT. So don't

>let me be a convenient excuse either.

>

>=Steve=

>

>

>

>

>

>medic427 wrote:

>

>

>

>>The comment from EMSAT member Steve , " Non-members have not

>>earned the right to make suggestions " at least has made a decision

>>for me not to join for sure. I have to put up with arrogant, self-

>>centered people enough as it is. If EMSAT or any other organization

>>is going to make it in Texas(elsewhere), they have to represent all

>>and should take suggestions from all. Yes, paying members will make

>>the organization stronger and yes, the paying members should be the

>>only ones who vote on issues, but to say that " Non-members have not

>>earned the right to make suggestions " , is not going to win points

>>trying to increase the membership.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Thank you.

Mike

Re: EMSAT

And we look forward to you joining and bringing your ideas to EMSAT and to

Texas!!

Jane Hill