EMSAT

[Guest guest]

EMSAT is doing a good job with their telemarketing, and should keep it up. I

am a founding EMSAT member and also a former board member who voted in favor

of the idea of using telemarketing.

If they call and you don't want to do it just tell them thanks but no thanks,

it is simple. Mike for one is not a member of EMSAT at this time do to

his own choosing, all he uses the list server for is to slam EMSAT. EMSAT does

not embarrass me as a paramedic in Texas but some of Mike 's post do.

Brett Coghlan EMT-P

Founding member of EMSAT

[Guest guest]

EMSAT is doing a good job with their telemarketing, and should keep it up. I

am a founding EMSAT member and also a former board member who voted in favor

of the idea of using telemarketing.

If they call and you don't want to do it just tell them thanks but no thanks,

it is simple. Mike for one is not a member of EMSAT at this time do to

his own choosing, all he uses the list server for is to slam EMSAT. EMSAT does

not embarrass me as a paramedic in Texas but some of Mike 's post do.

Brett Coghlan EMT-P

Founding member of EMSAT

[Guest guest]

,

I'm just curious. Do your comments apply to all who are concerned about

the telemarketing? Or just Mike ?

Respecfully,

Wes Ogilvie

[Guest guest]

Mike,

I am sorry you have been disturbed over the telemarketing issue for

EMSAT.....Get over it....!

This is another one of your attempts to belittle the only organization that

represents all EMS folks, (and YES, that includes you) before the legislature

and other state organizations.....

I would have to agree with most of the authors that have replied to your

comments today.....however, I have always felt that the TDH listserver is NOT

the appropriate way to voice your opinion....just another one of your venues to

degrade dedicated EMS people.

I guess it would be to difficult for you to attend a Board meeting and voice

your concern, and not use the listserver to hide behind....

Oh, I forgot, you have chosen not to be a member!

Scarborough, EMT/P

Board Member

Founding Member - EMSAT

[Guest guest]

Sir,

I mean No disrespect with my following comments, however I have been in EMS

since 1984 and have been employeed here at the community college (Northeast

Texas Community College) for the past three years as a full-time faculty member

in the EMS program and I was not aware of your organization maybe you could

provide us with some info...

Thanks

Lonnie

Re: EMSAT

Mike,

I am sorry you have been disturbed over the telemarketing issue for

EMSAT.....Get over it....!

This is another one of your attempts to belittle the only organization that

represents all EMS folks, (and YES, that includes you) before the legislature

and other state organizations.....

I would have to agree with most of the authors that have replied to your

comments today.....however, I have always felt that the TDH listserver is NOT

the appropriate way to voice your opinion....just another one of your venues to

degrade dedicated EMS people.

I guess it would be to difficult for you to attend a Board meeting and voice

your concern, and not use the listserver to hide behind....

Oh, I forgot, you have chosen not to be a member!

Scarborough, EMT/P

Board Member

Founding Member - EMSAT

[Guest guest]

Wes,

My comment was for the one individual that began the rant.....

Thanks for being there for all of us in EMS...

[Guest guest]

Wes,

My comment was for the one individual that began the rant.....

Thanks for being there for all of us in EMS...

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for confirming what I was pretty sure to be the case. It's nice

to see that adults can disagree about which road to take to reach our common

destination. I hope that we can all move past this point of contention in the

near future and begin to address the substantive issues that truly impact EMS.

Name-calling, mudslinging, and innuendo only serve to convince the TDH

personnel and general public who read this that EMS " needs adult supervision. "

It's my pleasure to be here to help how and where I can.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for confirming what I was pretty sure to be the case. It's nice

to see that adults can disagree about which road to take to reach our common

destination. I hope that we can all move past this point of contention in the

near future and begin to address the substantive issues that truly impact EMS.

Name-calling, mudslinging, and innuendo only serve to convince the TDH

personnel and general public who read this that EMS " needs adult supervision. "

It's my pleasure to be here to help how and where I can.

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD

[Guest guest]

Whew....the heat is building so much I had to turn on the AC.

I have never been popular with the EMSAT folks, but to add some credence to what

Mike is saying and Wes so appropriately clarified about perceptions, I posted

this to both the Texas EMS list and EMSFACTOR lists on August 22, 2002. At that

time I was poo-poo'ed from several on these lists as being too sensitive and

that there was no way my citizens could get confused:

" Secondly, I am getting phone calls from local residents wanting to know how

much

of the money they donate to telephone solicitors from EMSAT will be coming back

to Schertz EMS. I don't have quotes because I have not been called, but our

community is rich in tradition of supporting the volunteer organizations with

donations and fundraisers. Several of them have told me that the telephone

callers are telling them that the money they donate will come back and help

support Schertz EMS. I know that the intent is that the donations will

hopefully lead to legislative and rule changes that will benefit the operations

of Schertz EMS, but in a community rich in volunteer support and donations, I

would hate to see any confusion in our citizens because if they feel they have

already donated to us through EMSAT then they will not donate at fundraisers and

other associated events. Just as a heads up...thanks for the consideration. "

I continue to hear things such as this and others just as Mike described. The

reason I can successfully combat the " scam " or the " those @@#$@ telemarketers "

complaints I hear is because I have been an active member of this list for

several years and am aware of what EMSAT is doing. I am one of 1200+ people on

this list...and also one of the tens of thousands of state certified people not

on this list. My concern, and one the EMSAT board should consider as they talk

of how to be successful, is that the other millions of people who have no idea

of what EMSAT is, will not have a favorable impression of EMSAT, and if the ways

and means Mike described are true...potentially of EMS in Texas.

I realize EMS funding is hard to come by and sorely needed. As with all other

decisions however, you must be fully cognizant of the potential impacts (good

and bad) of your fundraising efforts and would be very well served, when

approached by people who have recieved a different impression...to try and

understand why that impression occurred and work to fix it before more and more

people build upon it...

Its the same reason we teach new EMT's to constantly assess and reassess our

patients...things change and things don't always go the way they are written in

the textbooks...same principle here. Fundraising does not always go the way it

is planned, things change, and issues can arise with " contracted " companies that

can send wrong messages and impart wrong impressions...if you do not listen

through the ranting and see the actual message, you may miss a potentially

lethal complication or arrythmia.

Just my $0.02 on a foggy, wet Friday morning...

Dudley

[Guest guest]

Hey Dudley,

Ya know, yesterday I got a phone call at home. From an " unavailable

name and number " on the caller ID. They claimed to be soliciting

money for an EMS organization. I don't know for sure it was EMSAT,

nor am I implying that it is. I politely told them we were on the

local and national do not call lists, and that we did not want to be

called again regarding any solicitations for money. I then hung

up. They had the balls to call back and " rip me a new one " for

hanging up on them, and tell me how I was jeaopardizing the EMS

community by not donating. I hung up again. They called back

within 5 minutes, except this time it was a different voice on the

phone. Same pitch, except this time I told them I am a Paramedic,

and that if they called back, I would turn them in to TDH and the

Attorney General's office for harrassment. This time they hung up

on me. It's telemarketing like that which makes us look bad to the

community. It's deceptive telemarketing in general that makes all

of us look bad to the public. I.E. like them saying jn your case

that the money would come back to Schertz EMS, or when the Texas DPS

Officers Association calls and says they are with DPS, when they are

actually not affiliated with DPS in any way.

[Guest guest]

Hey Dudley,

Ya know, yesterday I got a phone call at home. From an " unavailable

name and number " on the caller ID. They claimed to be soliciting

money for an EMS organization. I don't know for sure it was EMSAT,

nor am I implying that it is. I politely told them we were on the

local and national do not call lists, and that we did not want to be

called again regarding any solicitations for money. I then hung

up. They had the balls to call back and " rip me a new one " for

hanging up on them, and tell me how I was jeaopardizing the EMS

community by not donating. I hung up again. They called back

within 5 minutes, except this time it was a different voice on the

phone. Same pitch, except this time I told them I am a Paramedic,

and that if they called back, I would turn them in to TDH and the

Attorney General's office for harrassment. This time they hung up

on me. It's telemarketing like that which makes us look bad to the

community. It's deceptive telemarketing in general that makes all

of us look bad to the public. I.E. like them saying jn your case

that the money would come back to Schertz EMS, or when the Texas DPS

Officers Association calls and says they are with DPS, when they are

actually not affiliated with DPS in any way.

[Guest guest]

Alright,

It's time to put the EMSAT discussion in perspective. Mike raised some valid

concerns that many people have, probably even some of it's members. Those

that have stepped up to combat his statements have done NOTHING to prove him

wrong. More likely they have been an embarassment to the group.

Just because he raised questions and stated his own opinion does not make it

ok for the EMSAT board members and founding fathers to start a personnal

attack on him. That is very sad and only makes Mike's statement ring all the

more loudly.

Wes has done a great job in stating what is true in many things, not just

politics (management as well) " perception IS reality " . EMSAT has a

perception problem. Many people, some that I have known for years and have

lots of respect for get on here and push for membership and what can be

attained by joining, then someone steps up and challenges EMSAT--the only

way to truely grow-- and the name calling begins by other EMSAT

members...usually board members and found members....how sad. Exactly how

does that make other want to join??

EMSAT is not bad and yes they are proably working towards improvement in

Texas EMS...but you have to stop alienating the very people you are working

to improve life for and ultimately need!

I guess this now puts me in the target zone!!!

Wiseman

[Guest guest]

In regards to Schertz EMS and EMSAT Marketing. This issue was addressed to you,

or some official from Schertz almost two years ago. I see no need to answer on

this list for what has been answered to Schertz EMS, and some citizens already.

EMSAT Marketing has never said the give money to any EMS Service. If folks can't

tell the difference of Schertz EMS and EMSAT, then I can help you, but it sounds

like a local public education problem. I marketing meets the same as legal

requirements that Law Enforcement, Fire Departments, Hospitals, Churches,and

many other State and Nationwide groups do here in Texas. We didn't write the

laws, but we are following them, and we have to pay $$$ to Texas to be allowed

to Market EMSAT, as well they know and monitor what we do. If you will give the

Ph#'s and Names I and representatives will contact the folks you say you get all

these calls from and be extremely happy to discuss this with them. Anyone can

say they get calls. If they have then give me the phone number and name to

verify. Other than that it has no merit, and if someone tells me they got a call

and so-in-so said this or that then that is no more than hearsay, second, third

and forth hand information. The fact is, if " you " were not on the call you don't

know. Were you on the call?

Ron

Re: EMSAT

Whew....the heat is building so much I had to turn on the AC.

I have never been popular with the EMSAT folks, but to add some credence to

what Mike is saying and Wes so appropriately clarified about perceptions, I

posted this to both the Texas EMS list and EMSFACTOR lists on August 22, 2002.

At that time I was poo-poo'ed from several on these lists as being too sensitive

and that there was no way my citizens could get confused:

" Secondly, I am getting phone calls from local residents wanting to know how

much

of the money they donate to telephone solicitors from EMSAT will be coming

back

to Schertz EMS. I don't have quotes because I have not been called, but our

community is rich in tradition of supporting the volunteer organizations with

donations and fundraisers. Several of them have told me that the telephone

callers are telling them that the money they donate will come back and help

support Schertz EMS. I know that the intent is that the donations will

hopefully lead to legislative and rule changes that will benefit the

operations

of Schertz EMS, but in a community rich in volunteer support and donations, I

would hate to see any confusion in our citizens because if they feel they have

already donated to us through EMSAT then they will not donate at fundraisers

and

other associated events. Just as a heads up...thanks for the consideration. "

I continue to hear things such as this and others just as Mike described. The

reason I can successfully combat the " scam " or the " those @@#$@ telemarketers "

complaints I hear is because I have been an active member of this list for

several years and am aware of what EMSAT is doing. I am one of 1200+ people on

this list...and also one of the tens of thousands of state certified people not

on this list. My concern, and one the EMSAT board should consider as they talk

of how to be successful, is that the other millions of people who have no idea

of what EMSAT is, will not have a favorable impression of EMSAT, and if the ways

and means Mike described are true...potentially of EMS in Texas.

I realize EMS funding is hard to come by and sorely needed. As with all other

decisions however, you must be fully cognizant of the potential impacts (good

and bad) of your fundraising efforts and would be very well served, when

approached by people who have recieved a different impression...to try and

understand why that impression occurred and work to fix it before more and more

people build upon it...

Its the same reason we teach new EMT's to constantly assess and reassess our

patients...things change and things don't always go the way they are written in

the textbooks...same principle here. Fundraising does not always go the way it

is planned, things change, and issues can arise with " contracted " companies that

can send wrong messages and impart wrong impressions...if you do not listen

through the ranting and see the actual message, you may miss a potentially

lethal complication or arrythmia.

Just my $0.02 on a foggy, wet Friday morning...

Dudley

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I have always said that the more you stir S--- the more it stinks.

Re: EMSAT

> Alright,

>

> It's time to put the EMSAT discussion in perspective. Mike raised some

valid

> concerns that many people have, probably even some of it's members. Those

> that have stepped up to combat his statements have done NOTHING to prove

him

> wrong. More likely they have been an embarassment to the group.

>

> Just because he raised questions and stated his own opinion does not make

it

> ok for the EMSAT board members and founding fathers to start a personnal

> attack on him. That is very sad and only makes Mike's statement ring all

the

> more loudly.

>

> Wes has done a great job in stating what is true in many things, not just

> politics (management as well) " perception IS reality " . EMSAT has a

> perception problem. Many people, some that I have known for years and have

> lots of respect for get on here and push for membership and what can be

> attained by joining, then someone steps up and challenges EMSAT--the only

> way to truely grow-- and the name calling begins by other EMSAT

> members...usually board members and found members....how sad. Exactly how

> does that make other want to join??

>

> EMSAT is not bad and yes they are proably working towards improvement in

> Texas EMS...but you have to stop alienating the very people you are

working

> to improve life for and ultimately need!

>

>

> I guess this now puts me in the target zone!!!

>

> Wiseman

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I have always said that the more you stir S--- the more it stinks.

>

>

So you would be advocating that we just leave it there? Maybe paint

it a different color? Decorate it?

God forbid we clean it up.

Mike

[Guest guest]

> > 22. Why has this groups been so secret and in the hiding? All

you hear

> > is come to EMS Stock, for what. C.E. I can get anywhere? Chili I

can

> > make at home? Beer?

>

> I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact,

I'd say

> that we put out more about our organization in a year than EMSTOCK

did in

> three, despite repeated requests.

Correction, I made a typo. My answer should read:

I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact,

I'd say that we put out more about our organization in a year than

_EMSAT_ did in three, despite repeated requests.

Mike

[Guest guest]

I have watched with great interest the thoughts on EMSAT, and TEMSF, and

I have to say that to compare the two of them, is like comparing apples

to oranges. Each has their own separate goals, and ideals of

accomplishments, with the exception of one, and that is the betterment

of EMS.

Ron and a group of people sat down some time ago and did what no one

else either could; or would do at the time. For that, we owe him a debt

of gratitude. EMSAT is moving and changing, but things do not happen

overnight. Do I like the phone solicitations? No. However the funds need

to be raised, so that accomplishments can be made in order to show

potential members what EMSAT can and will do in the future.

Telemarketing is a world all it's own, telemarketers make money on the

donations they receive, unfortunately, some may not be as honest as

others, that's not an EMSAT issue solely, that's a telemarketer issue,

and in a world where they can't call EVERYONE anymore, they have to try

harder and harder to get what little they can out of the few that they

CAN call. Perhaps one of the board members at EMSAT can contact the

telemarketing company, and make it clear in no uncertain terms, that

honesty is necessary, if the problem continues, than it's time to find a

new telemarketing company.

TEMSF is not politically affiliated in any way, not that the board

members do not have political ideals themselves, they do, however TEMSF

in and of itself was created as a means to generate funds to insure the

survival of EMStock, and to date, I think it has done a fine outstanding

job. TEMSF is also growing and changing, it is taking on new challenges.

EMStock is my time to sit with people who have been there done that and

wear the same t-shirt as I do, to meet the people who are there now and

doing it and about to order the t-shirt, and even rub elbows with those

who have done it for so long, they wore the t-shirt out. It's a time to

meet people who even though they have no direct affiliation with EMS,

they get involved and stay involved in order to promote EMS statewide.

Wes and I have had a couple of discussions over the phone in which we

solved the worlds problems, if we could only get elected to public

office (Arafat would be VERY scared) we could drive on with our ideas.

An alternative to get our thoughts and ideas out, is to meet at EMStock,

and share our ideas not only with each other, but with others, as well

as listen to their problems, and try to help with solutions.

EMStock is a time to relax, listen to some of the best music around, be

dazzled by the fireworks, and drink cold beer. It's a time to work in

some CE's and gain some knowledge.

Is it a party? Kinda, it's a working vacation.

EMSAT is the organization that I depend on to keep a close eye on

legislation regarding EMS, to watch my back in politics. Am I a member?

Unfortunately I let me membership lapse at the beginning of the year. If

the site is up, I will finish this email, download the form to renew,

and send a check this morning.

I have disagreements with moves that the board has made in the past, and

stands that it took, but that is what the elections are all about. You

vote.

Will EMSAT continue what it is doing without your support? It sure will.

Would it be able to do it better with your financial help? Sure it

would. Even better than that, it would do better if they could stand and

say " we represent 30,000 members, and you have to understand that

our/their position is this " .

Mike 's post was direct, but, that's Mike , that's how he is.

Mine are often sarcastic, that's just my humor, Wes and Gene tend to be

eloquent until they get pissed, then it's a free for all..., we all

have our way of getting our points across, and for the most part we try

not to attack anyone personally. Unfortunately you can't emit emotions

in an email, you can't raise and eyebrow, give a sheepish grin, or poke

an elbow into the ribs. We do have to give a considerable amount of

benefit of the doubt.

Just my 0.03 worth.

Mike (the other Mike) Hatfield

[Guest guest]

We'll Mike. I know folks are WAY passed being tired of you, I and others playing

ping pong on this subject. So I for one will make my last post UNLESS EMSAT

keeps on as a major discussion on the group. The fact is you can lead a horse to

water, but you can't make the horse drink. If you like the water take a drink if

not then go to another watering hole. Both groups have very, very wonderful

people trying to do good things, but as usual in EMS we always eat our own and

that is a serious problem with EMS. As far as people joining different groups

it's like people going to a movie. Many folks may go see a shoot-em up movie,

where you couldn't drag the other person in for free, and others just don't go

to movies. It's a freedom of choice and their money. If you told them every

single thing about a movie very few would ever pay to see it. The difference is

this is their profession, their money and it's up to them to decide. Not one

EMSAT person has ever been head over hill on telemarketing, but until EMS folks

join an Association of their choice it's an evil EMSAT has to do to have the

funds to be effective,and exist. Without money it would be just a group of good

old boys that can't accomplish anything including a simple mail out of

applications. Everything cost! The other fact is I've heard EMS folks are head

over heels with apathy. I bought into that for many years, but after talking and

watching them I don't agree with that anymore. We have declared it's apathy,

because we really don't know what their problem is as far as getting involved. I

know NAEMT gave away 5,000 free memberships for any and everyone that went

through a PHTLS and another course in hopes they would join when the renewal

came around. $10,000 free LDD came with that free membership. The jury is out as

to if that works for them. Out of 870,000 EMS folks in the U.S. NAEMT has 4,400

paid members after existing for 25 years or so, and 5,000 free members. They

make their money of the sale books such as PHTLS, PPPC, AMLS, ( I think I got

the right courses they sell books for) membership dues,corporate donations, EMS

Expo (I think the NAEMT share was about $2,000 in 2002), and selling NAEMT

Merchandise. Their revenue and budget is approx $900,000, with a new building

and 5 paid staff. They offer membership discounts if your a member of an

affiliate. They are struggling by not having affiliates in all 50 States. NAEMT

is an excellent Association in my opinion, and the only one we have on a

National Basis that represents anyone in EMS. I will also say EMSAT has never

take a dime that was not given to us of someone's free will. People can give, or

not. I get mail outs from the Sheriffs Association in my mail box, I get

telemarketed all the time from EMS Book Vendors we all know. So the EMS Book

vendors Telemarketer also and they are for profit and on my do-not call State

and Federal List. So how do they do that when it's not legal if your on a list

and for Profit? This egroup has several telemarketing emails, since phone lines

are used to solicit me and others to buy things, join groups, and attend

meetings. EMS or not it is still telemarketing and taking up my band with. I get

solicited to buy EMS Magazines that fill my mail box, garbage can, and then I

have spend my time to take it to be recycled. We call it JUNK Mail, which we

even have a place for junk mail on our email program We'll, you have a good day.

Thanks,

Ron

Re: EMSAT

> > 22. Why has this groups been so secret and in the hiding? All

you hear

> > is come to EMS Stock, for what. C.E. I can get anywhere? Chili I

can

> > make at home? Beer?

>

> I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact,

I'd say

> that we put out more about our organization in a year than EMSTOCK

did in

> three, despite repeated requests.

Correction, I made a typo. My answer should read:

I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact,

I'd say that we put out more about our organization in a year than

_EMSAT_ did in three, despite repeated requests.

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

We'll Mike. I know folks are WAY passed being tired of you, I and others playing

ping pong on this subject. So I for one will make my last post UNLESS EMSAT

keeps on as a major discussion on the group. The fact is you can lead a horse to

water, but you can't make the horse drink. If you like the water take a drink if

not then go to another watering hole. Both groups have very, very wonderful

people trying to do good things, but as usual in EMS we always eat our own and

that is a serious problem with EMS. As far as people joining different groups

it's like people going to a movie. Many folks may go see a shoot-em up movie,

where you couldn't drag the other person in for free, and others just don't go

to movies. It's a freedom of choice and their money. If you told them every

single thing about a movie very few would ever pay to see it. The difference is

this is their profession, their money and it's up to them to decide. Not one

EMSAT person has ever been head over hill on telemarketing, but until EMS folks

join an Association of their choice it's an evil EMSAT has to do to have the

funds to be effective,and exist. Without money it would be just a group of good

old boys that can't accomplish anything including a simple mail out of

applications. Everything cost! The other fact is I've heard EMS folks are head

over heels with apathy. I bought into that for many years, but after talking and

watching them I don't agree with that anymore. We have declared it's apathy,

because we really don't know what their problem is as far as getting involved. I

know NAEMT gave away 5,000 free memberships for any and everyone that went

through a PHTLS and another course in hopes they would join when the renewal

came around. $10,000 free LDD came with that free membership. The jury is out as

to if that works for them. Out of 870,000 EMS folks in the U.S. NAEMT has 4,400

paid members after existing for 25 years or so, and 5,000 free members. They

make their money of the sale books such as PHTLS, PPPC, AMLS, ( I think I got

the right courses they sell books for) membership dues,corporate donations, EMS

Expo (I think the NAEMT share was about $2,000 in 2002), and selling NAEMT

Merchandise. Their revenue and budget is approx $900,000, with a new building

and 5 paid staff. They offer membership discounts if your a member of an

affiliate. They are struggling by not having affiliates in all 50 States. NAEMT

is an excellent Association in my opinion, and the only one we have on a

National Basis that represents anyone in EMS. I will also say EMSAT has never

take a dime that was not given to us of someone's free will. People can give, or

not. I get mail outs from the Sheriffs Association in my mail box, I get

telemarketed all the time from EMS Book Vendors we all know. So the EMS Book

vendors Telemarketer also and they are for profit and on my do-not call State

and Federal List. So how do they do that when it's not legal if your on a list

and for Profit? This egroup has several telemarketing emails, since phone lines

are used to solicit me and others to buy things, join groups, and attend

meetings. EMS or not it is still telemarketing and taking up my band with. I get

solicited to buy EMS Magazines that fill my mail box, garbage can, and then I

have spend my time to take it to be recycled. We call it JUNK Mail, which we

even have a place for junk mail on our email program We'll, you have a good day.

Thanks,

Ron

Re: EMSAT

> > 22. Why has this groups been so secret and in the hiding? All

you hear

> > is come to EMS Stock, for what. C.E. I can get anywhere? Chili I

can

> > make at home? Beer?

>

> I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact,

I'd say

> that we put out more about our organization in a year than EMSTOCK

did in

> three, despite repeated requests.

Correction, I made a typo. My answer should read:

I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact,

I'd say that we put out more about our organization in a year than

_EMSAT_ did in three, despite repeated requests.

Mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

This subject should more properly be TEMSF and EMStock, but to keep the

thread going I will leave it as things have been posted.

I am presently attending an out of town training and have not seen the

postings with the exception of the one by Mr. Haussecker on Thursday at

5:52PM and the response of Mr. Mike at 9:21AM this morning, which

have been faxed to me.

Speaking individually, and not as a director or officer of TEMSF Inc.,

(although I am both) in response to the rambling, repetitious, and

bordering on incoherent posting by Mr. , I would say that

Past President Mike of TEMSF as very adequately and sufficiently

answered Mr. Haussecker, and I would affirm and adopt Mr. 's

statements.

If Mr. Haussecker had bothered to look at the TEMSF and EMStock web sites

he would have known the answers to many of his questions, and clearly

either didn't care enough to check before making his accusations, or

really did not want answers, just wanted to try to raise issues with TEMSF

and/or Mr. .

At the Texas EMS Conf. at the EMSAT meeting, and again at one of their

recent board meetings in Austin, several, if not a majority, of the TEMSF

board was present, and Mr. Haussecker was there and had every opportunity

to ask such questions if he wanted to do so, in person, which I would have

expected most reasonable, level-headed, rational and civilized business

men would do before making the public attack such as he has done. I can

only assume it did not fit his goals and plans to do so.

As soon as I return to Austin I will be in contact with other TEMSF board

members and other counsel to discuss any further answer to Mr.

Haussecker's postings, and consider such further actions as may be

warranted, or necessary.

Note to Mike -- thank you for answering Mr. Haussecker's posting, and

your demonstrated patience in his rambling, repeated questions.

Luther

david@...

[Guest guest]

Mr. Hatfield, your " .03 worth " is very valuable. Thank you for your insight.

Jane Hill

----------

[Guest guest]

Steve,

I don't mean to argue, but I think a lot of the initial disagreement on

the list came from the telemarketing. The concern was that EMSAT, through using

telemarketing, could be lumped in with other public safety groups that

operate as little more than a mechanism for telemarketers to claim over 90 cents

per

dollar.

-Wes

[Guest guest]

You know the one thing I can definitely say is that the majority of EMS

personnel outside of the list, directors, administrators, have never heard of

EMSAT. Why, you may ask? Well, let us see. The majority of EMS personnel have

heard of NAEMT. Why? Advertising. How many of us at our place of work have even

seen a flyer, let alone a brochure about EMSAT? I for one can say never. Maybe

they should try that approach. We also keep getting brochures in the mail about

Goldstar and other Fire/EMS Depts. that are hiring. It is called effective

marketing. I think I can honestly say that EMSAT has failed to market itself.

Here in the Valley our local college and the RAC hold classes and we never hear

of them. Why? Because our administrators/directors keep the information to

themselves. And why would they do this? My guess. It would mean pay raises for

some of us. Down here I guess they mostly look after themselves instead of each

other. Much the same way that would probably happen if EMSAT tried this

approach. The only Valley service I have seen as a member of EMSAT is South

Texas Emergency Care. Now maybe you guys at EMSAT can look into this matter.

Market yourselves and your results will be positive. Hell, send a rep to talk

with the service's employees.

Re: EMSAT

Steve,

I don't mean to argue, but I think a lot of the initial

disagreement on the list came from the telemarketing. The concern

was that EMSAT, through using telemarketing, could be lumped in with

other public safety groups that operate as little more than a

mechanism for telemarketers to claim over 90 cents per dollar.

-Wes

> The three most important things to any business or organization's

growth:

>

> Marketing

> Marketing

> and oh yeah,

>

> MARKETING.

>

> We've found it over and over again. The one with the best product

or

> service doesn't always win.

>

> The one that MARKETS the best does.

>

> The real leaders have something to offer thats the best, or above

> average, or at least WORTH doing/buying, AND market it well.

>

> I don't know the answer, but the question is " How do we market EMS

as a

> profession? "

> Answer, we HAVE to do it as a whole, in critical mass. Like a LOT

of us.

> Question, how do we get us together? Answer, organizing (like

EMSAT).

> How do we grow EMSAT? like the snake eating it's tail, the

circular

> answer is MARKETING.

> How do we market EMSAT? That's the real question.

>

> Maybe the telemarketing " solution " isn't defective, but maybe that

> particular telemarketing organization isn't doing the job, so we

need

> another one?

>

> Just thoughts...

>

>

> =Steve=

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Does anyone know how effective ANY telemarketing is? We know it is good

enough to keep the minimum wage people employed but how how money is

raised, for example, a firefighter union?

On Thursday, Mar 25, 2004, at 14:51 US/Central, ExLngHrn@...

composed:

> Steve,

>     I don't mean to argue, but I think a lot of the initial

> disagreement on

> the list came from the telemarketing. The concern was that EMSAT,

> through using

> telemarketing, could be lumped in with other public safety groups that

> operate as little more than a mechanism for telemarketers to claim

> over 90 cents per

> dollar.

>

> -Wes

>