Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 EMSAT is doing a good job with their telemarketing, and should keep it up. I am a founding EMSAT member and also a former board member who voted in favor of the idea of using telemarketing. If they call and you don't want to do it just tell them thanks but no thanks, it is simple. Mike for one is not a member of EMSAT at this time do to his own choosing, all he uses the list server for is to slam EMSAT. EMSAT does not embarrass me as a paramedic in Texas but some of Mike 's post do. Brett Coghlan EMT-P Founding member of EMSAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 EMSAT is doing a good job with their telemarketing, and should keep it up. I am a founding EMSAT member and also a former board member who voted in favor of the idea of using telemarketing. If they call and you don't want to do it just tell them thanks but no thanks, it is simple. Mike for one is not a member of EMSAT at this time do to his own choosing, all he uses the list server for is to slam EMSAT. EMSAT does not embarrass me as a paramedic in Texas but some of Mike 's post do. Brett Coghlan EMT-P Founding member of EMSAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 , I'm just curious. Do your comments apply to all who are concerned about the telemarketing? Or just Mike ? Respecfully, Wes Ogilvie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Mike, I am sorry you have been disturbed over the telemarketing issue for EMSAT.....Get over it....! This is another one of your attempts to belittle the only organization that represents all EMS folks, (and YES, that includes you) before the legislature and other state organizations..... I would have to agree with most of the authors that have replied to your comments today.....however, I have always felt that the TDH listserver is NOT the appropriate way to voice your opinion....just another one of your venues to degrade dedicated EMS people. I guess it would be to difficult for you to attend a Board meeting and voice your concern, and not use the listserver to hide behind.... Oh, I forgot, you have chosen not to be a member! Scarborough, EMT/P Board Member Founding Member - EMSAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Sir, I mean No disrespect with my following comments, however I have been in EMS since 1984 and have been employeed here at the community college (Northeast Texas Community College) for the past three years as a full-time faculty member in the EMS program and I was not aware of your organization maybe you could provide us with some info... Thanks Lonnie Re: EMSAT Mike, I am sorry you have been disturbed over the telemarketing issue for EMSAT.....Get over it....! This is another one of your attempts to belittle the only organization that represents all EMS folks, (and YES, that includes you) before the legislature and other state organizations..... I would have to agree with most of the authors that have replied to your comments today.....however, I have always felt that the TDH listserver is NOT the appropriate way to voice your opinion....just another one of your venues to degrade dedicated EMS people. I guess it would be to difficult for you to attend a Board meeting and voice your concern, and not use the listserver to hide behind.... Oh, I forgot, you have chosen not to be a member! Scarborough, EMT/P Board Member Founding Member - EMSAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Wes, My comment was for the one individual that began the rant..... Thanks for being there for all of us in EMS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 Wes, My comment was for the one individual that began the rant..... Thanks for being there for all of us in EMS... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 , Thank you for confirming what I was pretty sure to be the case. It's nice to see that adults can disagree about which road to take to reach our common destination. I hope that we can all move past this point of contention in the near future and begin to address the substantive issues that truly impact EMS. Name-calling, mudslinging, and innuendo only serve to convince the TDH personnel and general public who read this that EMS " needs adult supervision. " It's my pleasure to be here to help how and where I can. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 18, 2004 Report Share Posted March 18, 2004 , Thank you for confirming what I was pretty sure to be the case. It's nice to see that adults can disagree about which road to take to reach our common destination. I hope that we can all move past this point of contention in the near future and begin to address the substantive issues that truly impact EMS. Name-calling, mudslinging, and innuendo only serve to convince the TDH personnel and general public who read this that EMS " needs adult supervision. " It's my pleasure to be here to help how and where I can. -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Whew....the heat is building so much I had to turn on the AC. I have never been popular with the EMSAT folks, but to add some credence to what Mike is saying and Wes so appropriately clarified about perceptions, I posted this to both the Texas EMS list and EMSFACTOR lists on August 22, 2002. At that time I was poo-poo'ed from several on these lists as being too sensitive and that there was no way my citizens could get confused: " Secondly, I am getting phone calls from local residents wanting to know how much of the money they donate to telephone solicitors from EMSAT will be coming back to Schertz EMS. I don't have quotes because I have not been called, but our community is rich in tradition of supporting the volunteer organizations with donations and fundraisers. Several of them have told me that the telephone callers are telling them that the money they donate will come back and help support Schertz EMS. I know that the intent is that the donations will hopefully lead to legislative and rule changes that will benefit the operations of Schertz EMS, but in a community rich in volunteer support and donations, I would hate to see any confusion in our citizens because if they feel they have already donated to us through EMSAT then they will not donate at fundraisers and other associated events. Just as a heads up...thanks for the consideration. " I continue to hear things such as this and others just as Mike described. The reason I can successfully combat the " scam " or the " those @@#$@ telemarketers " complaints I hear is because I have been an active member of this list for several years and am aware of what EMSAT is doing. I am one of 1200+ people on this list...and also one of the tens of thousands of state certified people not on this list. My concern, and one the EMSAT board should consider as they talk of how to be successful, is that the other millions of people who have no idea of what EMSAT is, will not have a favorable impression of EMSAT, and if the ways and means Mike described are true...potentially of EMS in Texas. I realize EMS funding is hard to come by and sorely needed. As with all other decisions however, you must be fully cognizant of the potential impacts (good and bad) of your fundraising efforts and would be very well served, when approached by people who have recieved a different impression...to try and understand why that impression occurred and work to fix it before more and more people build upon it... Its the same reason we teach new EMT's to constantly assess and reassess our patients...things change and things don't always go the way they are written in the textbooks...same principle here. Fundraising does not always go the way it is planned, things change, and issues can arise with " contracted " companies that can send wrong messages and impart wrong impressions...if you do not listen through the ranting and see the actual message, you may miss a potentially lethal complication or arrythmia. Just my $0.02 on a foggy, wet Friday morning... Dudley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hey Dudley, Ya know, yesterday I got a phone call at home. From an " unavailable name and number " on the caller ID. They claimed to be soliciting money for an EMS organization. I don't know for sure it was EMSAT, nor am I implying that it is. I politely told them we were on the local and national do not call lists, and that we did not want to be called again regarding any solicitations for money. I then hung up. They had the balls to call back and " rip me a new one " for hanging up on them, and tell me how I was jeaopardizing the EMS community by not donating. I hung up again. They called back within 5 minutes, except this time it was a different voice on the phone. Same pitch, except this time I told them I am a Paramedic, and that if they called back, I would turn them in to TDH and the Attorney General's office for harrassment. This time they hung up on me. It's telemarketing like that which makes us look bad to the community. It's deceptive telemarketing in general that makes all of us look bad to the public. I.E. like them saying jn your case that the money would come back to Schertz EMS, or when the Texas DPS Officers Association calls and says they are with DPS, when they are actually not affiliated with DPS in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Hey Dudley, Ya know, yesterday I got a phone call at home. From an " unavailable name and number " on the caller ID. They claimed to be soliciting money for an EMS organization. I don't know for sure it was EMSAT, nor am I implying that it is. I politely told them we were on the local and national do not call lists, and that we did not want to be called again regarding any solicitations for money. I then hung up. They had the balls to call back and " rip me a new one " for hanging up on them, and tell me how I was jeaopardizing the EMS community by not donating. I hung up again. They called back within 5 minutes, except this time it was a different voice on the phone. Same pitch, except this time I told them I am a Paramedic, and that if they called back, I would turn them in to TDH and the Attorney General's office for harrassment. This time they hung up on me. It's telemarketing like that which makes us look bad to the community. It's deceptive telemarketing in general that makes all of us look bad to the public. I.E. like them saying jn your case that the money would come back to Schertz EMS, or when the Texas DPS Officers Association calls and says they are with DPS, when they are actually not affiliated with DPS in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Alright, It's time to put the EMSAT discussion in perspective. Mike raised some valid concerns that many people have, probably even some of it's members. Those that have stepped up to combat his statements have done NOTHING to prove him wrong. More likely they have been an embarassment to the group. Just because he raised questions and stated his own opinion does not make it ok for the EMSAT board members and founding fathers to start a personnal attack on him. That is very sad and only makes Mike's statement ring all the more loudly. Wes has done a great job in stating what is true in many things, not just politics (management as well) " perception IS reality " . EMSAT has a perception problem. Many people, some that I have known for years and have lots of respect for get on here and push for membership and what can be attained by joining, then someone steps up and challenges EMSAT--the only way to truely grow-- and the name calling begins by other EMSAT members...usually board members and found members....how sad. Exactly how does that make other want to join?? EMSAT is not bad and yes they are proably working towards improvement in Texas EMS...but you have to stop alienating the very people you are working to improve life for and ultimately need! I guess this now puts me in the target zone!!! Wiseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 In regards to Schertz EMS and EMSAT Marketing. This issue was addressed to you, or some official from Schertz almost two years ago. I see no need to answer on this list for what has been answered to Schertz EMS, and some citizens already. EMSAT Marketing has never said the give money to any EMS Service. If folks can't tell the difference of Schertz EMS and EMSAT, then I can help you, but it sounds like a local public education problem. I marketing meets the same as legal requirements that Law Enforcement, Fire Departments, Hospitals, Churches,and many other State and Nationwide groups do here in Texas. We didn't write the laws, but we are following them, and we have to pay $$$ to Texas to be allowed to Market EMSAT, as well they know and monitor what we do. If you will give the Ph#'s and Names I and representatives will contact the folks you say you get all these calls from and be extremely happy to discuss this with them. Anyone can say they get calls. If they have then give me the phone number and name to verify. Other than that it has no merit, and if someone tells me they got a call and so-in-so said this or that then that is no more than hearsay, second, third and forth hand information. The fact is, if " you " were not on the call you don't know. Were you on the call? Ron Re: EMSAT Whew....the heat is building so much I had to turn on the AC. I have never been popular with the EMSAT folks, but to add some credence to what Mike is saying and Wes so appropriately clarified about perceptions, I posted this to both the Texas EMS list and EMSFACTOR lists on August 22, 2002. At that time I was poo-poo'ed from several on these lists as being too sensitive and that there was no way my citizens could get confused: " Secondly, I am getting phone calls from local residents wanting to know how much of the money they donate to telephone solicitors from EMSAT will be coming back to Schertz EMS. I don't have quotes because I have not been called, but our community is rich in tradition of supporting the volunteer organizations with donations and fundraisers. Several of them have told me that the telephone callers are telling them that the money they donate will come back and help support Schertz EMS. I know that the intent is that the donations will hopefully lead to legislative and rule changes that will benefit the operations of Schertz EMS, but in a community rich in volunteer support and donations, I would hate to see any confusion in our citizens because if they feel they have already donated to us through EMSAT then they will not donate at fundraisers and other associated events. Just as a heads up...thanks for the consideration. " I continue to hear things such as this and others just as Mike described. The reason I can successfully combat the " scam " or the " those @@#$@ telemarketers " complaints I hear is because I have been an active member of this list for several years and am aware of what EMSAT is doing. I am one of 1200+ people on this list...and also one of the tens of thousands of state certified people not on this list. My concern, and one the EMSAT board should consider as they talk of how to be successful, is that the other millions of people who have no idea of what EMSAT is, will not have a favorable impression of EMSAT, and if the ways and means Mike described are true...potentially of EMS in Texas. I realize EMS funding is hard to come by and sorely needed. As with all other decisions however, you must be fully cognizant of the potential impacts (good and bad) of your fundraising efforts and would be very well served, when approached by people who have recieved a different impression...to try and understand why that impression occurred and work to fix it before more and more people build upon it... Its the same reason we teach new EMT's to constantly assess and reassess our patients...things change and things don't always go the way they are written in the textbooks...same principle here. Fundraising does not always go the way it is planned, things change, and issues can arise with " contracted " companies that can send wrong messages and impart wrong impressions...if you do not listen through the ranting and see the actual message, you may miss a potentially lethal complication or arrythmia. Just my $0.02 on a foggy, wet Friday morning... Dudley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 I have always said that the more you stir S--- the more it stinks. Re: EMSAT > Alright, > > It's time to put the EMSAT discussion in perspective. Mike raised some valid > concerns that many people have, probably even some of it's members. Those > that have stepped up to combat his statements have done NOTHING to prove him > wrong. More likely they have been an embarassment to the group. > > Just because he raised questions and stated his own opinion does not make it > ok for the EMSAT board members and founding fathers to start a personnal > attack on him. That is very sad and only makes Mike's statement ring all the > more loudly. > > Wes has done a great job in stating what is true in many things, not just > politics (management as well) " perception IS reality " . EMSAT has a > perception problem. Many people, some that I have known for years and have > lots of respect for get on here and push for membership and what can be > attained by joining, then someone steps up and challenges EMSAT--the only > way to truely grow-- and the name calling begins by other EMSAT > members...usually board members and found members....how sad. Exactly how > does that make other want to join?? > > EMSAT is not bad and yes they are proably working towards improvement in > Texas EMS...but you have to stop alienating the very people you are working > to improve life for and ultimately need! > > > I guess this now puts me in the target zone!!! > > Wiseman > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 > I have always said that the more you stir S--- the more it stinks. > > So you would be advocating that we just leave it there? Maybe paint it a different color? Decorate it? God forbid we clean it up. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 > > 22. Why has this groups been so secret and in the hiding? All you hear > > is come to EMS Stock, for what. C.E. I can get anywhere? Chili I can > > make at home? Beer? > > I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact, I'd say > that we put out more about our organization in a year than EMSTOCK did in > three, despite repeated requests. Correction, I made a typo. My answer should read: I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact, I'd say that we put out more about our organization in a year than _EMSAT_ did in three, despite repeated requests. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 I have watched with great interest the thoughts on EMSAT, and TEMSF, and I have to say that to compare the two of them, is like comparing apples to oranges. Each has their own separate goals, and ideals of accomplishments, with the exception of one, and that is the betterment of EMS. Ron and a group of people sat down some time ago and did what no one else either could; or would do at the time. For that, we owe him a debt of gratitude. EMSAT is moving and changing, but things do not happen overnight. Do I like the phone solicitations? No. However the funds need to be raised, so that accomplishments can be made in order to show potential members what EMSAT can and will do in the future. Telemarketing is a world all it's own, telemarketers make money on the donations they receive, unfortunately, some may not be as honest as others, that's not an EMSAT issue solely, that's a telemarketer issue, and in a world where they can't call EVERYONE anymore, they have to try harder and harder to get what little they can out of the few that they CAN call. Perhaps one of the board members at EMSAT can contact the telemarketing company, and make it clear in no uncertain terms, that honesty is necessary, if the problem continues, than it's time to find a new telemarketing company. TEMSF is not politically affiliated in any way, not that the board members do not have political ideals themselves, they do, however TEMSF in and of itself was created as a means to generate funds to insure the survival of EMStock, and to date, I think it has done a fine outstanding job. TEMSF is also growing and changing, it is taking on new challenges. EMStock is my time to sit with people who have been there done that and wear the same t-shirt as I do, to meet the people who are there now and doing it and about to order the t-shirt, and even rub elbows with those who have done it for so long, they wore the t-shirt out. It's a time to meet people who even though they have no direct affiliation with EMS, they get involved and stay involved in order to promote EMS statewide. Wes and I have had a couple of discussions over the phone in which we solved the worlds problems, if we could only get elected to public office (Arafat would be VERY scared) we could drive on with our ideas. An alternative to get our thoughts and ideas out, is to meet at EMStock, and share our ideas not only with each other, but with others, as well as listen to their problems, and try to help with solutions. EMStock is a time to relax, listen to some of the best music around, be dazzled by the fireworks, and drink cold beer. It's a time to work in some CE's and gain some knowledge. Is it a party? Kinda, it's a working vacation. EMSAT is the organization that I depend on to keep a close eye on legislation regarding EMS, to watch my back in politics. Am I a member? Unfortunately I let me membership lapse at the beginning of the year. If the site is up, I will finish this email, download the form to renew, and send a check this morning. I have disagreements with moves that the board has made in the past, and stands that it took, but that is what the elections are all about. You vote. Will EMSAT continue what it is doing without your support? It sure will. Would it be able to do it better with your financial help? Sure it would. Even better than that, it would do better if they could stand and say " we represent 30,000 members, and you have to understand that our/their position is this " . Mike 's post was direct, but, that's Mike , that's how he is. Mine are often sarcastic, that's just my humor, Wes and Gene tend to be eloquent until they get pissed, then it's a free for all..., we all have our way of getting our points across, and for the most part we try not to attack anyone personally. Unfortunately you can't emit emotions in an email, you can't raise and eyebrow, give a sheepish grin, or poke an elbow into the ribs. We do have to give a considerable amount of benefit of the doubt. Just my 0.03 worth. Mike (the other Mike) Hatfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 We'll Mike. I know folks are WAY passed being tired of you, I and others playing ping pong on this subject. So I for one will make my last post UNLESS EMSAT keeps on as a major discussion on the group. The fact is you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink. If you like the water take a drink if not then go to another watering hole. Both groups have very, very wonderful people trying to do good things, but as usual in EMS we always eat our own and that is a serious problem with EMS. As far as people joining different groups it's like people going to a movie. Many folks may go see a shoot-em up movie, where you couldn't drag the other person in for free, and others just don't go to movies. It's a freedom of choice and their money. If you told them every single thing about a movie very few would ever pay to see it. The difference is this is their profession, their money and it's up to them to decide. Not one EMSAT person has ever been head over hill on telemarketing, but until EMS folks join an Association of their choice it's an evil EMSAT has to do to have the funds to be effective,and exist. Without money it would be just a group of good old boys that can't accomplish anything including a simple mail out of applications. Everything cost! The other fact is I've heard EMS folks are head over heels with apathy. I bought into that for many years, but after talking and watching them I don't agree with that anymore. We have declared it's apathy, because we really don't know what their problem is as far as getting involved. I know NAEMT gave away 5,000 free memberships for any and everyone that went through a PHTLS and another course in hopes they would join when the renewal came around. $10,000 free LDD came with that free membership. The jury is out as to if that works for them. Out of 870,000 EMS folks in the U.S. NAEMT has 4,400 paid members after existing for 25 years or so, and 5,000 free members. They make their money of the sale books such as PHTLS, PPPC, AMLS, ( I think I got the right courses they sell books for) membership dues,corporate donations, EMS Expo (I think the NAEMT share was about $2,000 in 2002), and selling NAEMT Merchandise. Their revenue and budget is approx $900,000, with a new building and 5 paid staff. They offer membership discounts if your a member of an affiliate. They are struggling by not having affiliates in all 50 States. NAEMT is an excellent Association in my opinion, and the only one we have on a National Basis that represents anyone in EMS. I will also say EMSAT has never take a dime that was not given to us of someone's free will. People can give, or not. I get mail outs from the Sheriffs Association in my mail box, I get telemarketed all the time from EMS Book Vendors we all know. So the EMS Book vendors Telemarketer also and they are for profit and on my do-not call State and Federal List. So how do they do that when it's not legal if your on a list and for Profit? This egroup has several telemarketing emails, since phone lines are used to solicit me and others to buy things, join groups, and attend meetings. EMS or not it is still telemarketing and taking up my band with. I get solicited to buy EMS Magazines that fill my mail box, garbage can, and then I have spend my time to take it to be recycled. We call it JUNK Mail, which we even have a place for junk mail on our email program We'll, you have a good day. Thanks, Ron Re: EMSAT > > 22. Why has this groups been so secret and in the hiding? All you hear > > is come to EMS Stock, for what. C.E. I can get anywhere? Chili I can > > make at home? Beer? > > I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact, I'd say > that we put out more about our organization in a year than EMSTOCK did in > three, despite repeated requests. Correction, I made a typo. My answer should read: I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact, I'd say that we put out more about our organization in a year than _EMSAT_ did in three, despite repeated requests. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 We'll Mike. I know folks are WAY passed being tired of you, I and others playing ping pong on this subject. So I for one will make my last post UNLESS EMSAT keeps on as a major discussion on the group. The fact is you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make the horse drink. If you like the water take a drink if not then go to another watering hole. Both groups have very, very wonderful people trying to do good things, but as usual in EMS we always eat our own and that is a serious problem with EMS. As far as people joining different groups it's like people going to a movie. Many folks may go see a shoot-em up movie, where you couldn't drag the other person in for free, and others just don't go to movies. It's a freedom of choice and their money. If you told them every single thing about a movie very few would ever pay to see it. The difference is this is their profession, their money and it's up to them to decide. Not one EMSAT person has ever been head over hill on telemarketing, but until EMS folks join an Association of their choice it's an evil EMSAT has to do to have the funds to be effective,and exist. Without money it would be just a group of good old boys that can't accomplish anything including a simple mail out of applications. Everything cost! The other fact is I've heard EMS folks are head over heels with apathy. I bought into that for many years, but after talking and watching them I don't agree with that anymore. We have declared it's apathy, because we really don't know what their problem is as far as getting involved. I know NAEMT gave away 5,000 free memberships for any and everyone that went through a PHTLS and another course in hopes they would join when the renewal came around. $10,000 free LDD came with that free membership. The jury is out as to if that works for them. Out of 870,000 EMS folks in the U.S. NAEMT has 4,400 paid members after existing for 25 years or so, and 5,000 free members. They make their money of the sale books such as PHTLS, PPPC, AMLS, ( I think I got the right courses they sell books for) membership dues,corporate donations, EMS Expo (I think the NAEMT share was about $2,000 in 2002), and selling NAEMT Merchandise. Their revenue and budget is approx $900,000, with a new building and 5 paid staff. They offer membership discounts if your a member of an affiliate. They are struggling by not having affiliates in all 50 States. NAEMT is an excellent Association in my opinion, and the only one we have on a National Basis that represents anyone in EMS. I will also say EMSAT has never take a dime that was not given to us of someone's free will. People can give, or not. I get mail outs from the Sheriffs Association in my mail box, I get telemarketed all the time from EMS Book Vendors we all know. So the EMS Book vendors Telemarketer also and they are for profit and on my do-not call State and Federal List. So how do they do that when it's not legal if your on a list and for Profit? This egroup has several telemarketing emails, since phone lines are used to solicit me and others to buy things, join groups, and attend meetings. EMS or not it is still telemarketing and taking up my band with. I get solicited to buy EMS Magazines that fill my mail box, garbage can, and then I have spend my time to take it to be recycled. We call it JUNK Mail, which we even have a place for junk mail on our email program We'll, you have a good day. Thanks, Ron Re: EMSAT > > 22. Why has this groups been so secret and in the hiding? All you hear > > is come to EMS Stock, for what. C.E. I can get anywhere? Chili I can > > make at home? Beer? > > I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact, I'd say > that we put out more about our organization in a year than EMSTOCK did in > three, despite repeated requests. Correction, I made a typo. My answer should read: I don't think I would call TEMSF and EMSTOCK secretive. In fact, I'd say that we put out more about our organization in a year than _EMSAT_ did in three, despite repeated requests. Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 This subject should more properly be TEMSF and EMStock, but to keep the thread going I will leave it as things have been posted. I am presently attending an out of town training and have not seen the postings with the exception of the one by Mr. Haussecker on Thursday at 5:52PM and the response of Mr. Mike at 9:21AM this morning, which have been faxed to me. Speaking individually, and not as a director or officer of TEMSF Inc., (although I am both) in response to the rambling, repetitious, and bordering on incoherent posting by Mr. , I would say that Past President Mike of TEMSF as very adequately and sufficiently answered Mr. Haussecker, and I would affirm and adopt Mr. 's statements. If Mr. Haussecker had bothered to look at the TEMSF and EMStock web sites he would have known the answers to many of his questions, and clearly either didn't care enough to check before making his accusations, or really did not want answers, just wanted to try to raise issues with TEMSF and/or Mr. . At the Texas EMS Conf. at the EMSAT meeting, and again at one of their recent board meetings in Austin, several, if not a majority, of the TEMSF board was present, and Mr. Haussecker was there and had every opportunity to ask such questions if he wanted to do so, in person, which I would have expected most reasonable, level-headed, rational and civilized business men would do before making the public attack such as he has done. I can only assume it did not fit his goals and plans to do so. As soon as I return to Austin I will be in contact with other TEMSF board members and other counsel to discuss any further answer to Mr. Haussecker's postings, and consider such further actions as may be warranted, or necessary. Note to Mike -- thank you for answering Mr. Haussecker's posting, and your demonstrated patience in his rambling, repeated questions. Luther david@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 19, 2004 Report Share Posted March 19, 2004 Mr. Hatfield, your " .03 worth " is very valuable. Thank you for your insight. Jane Hill ---------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Steve, I don't mean to argue, but I think a lot of the initial disagreement on the list came from the telemarketing. The concern was that EMSAT, through using telemarketing, could be lumped in with other public safety groups that operate as little more than a mechanism for telemarketers to claim over 90 cents per dollar. -Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 You know the one thing I can definitely say is that the majority of EMS personnel outside of the list, directors, administrators, have never heard of EMSAT. Why, you may ask? Well, let us see. The majority of EMS personnel have heard of NAEMT. Why? Advertising. How many of us at our place of work have even seen a flyer, let alone a brochure about EMSAT? I for one can say never. Maybe they should try that approach. We also keep getting brochures in the mail about Goldstar and other Fire/EMS Depts. that are hiring. It is called effective marketing. I think I can honestly say that EMSAT has failed to market itself. Here in the Valley our local college and the RAC hold classes and we never hear of them. Why? Because our administrators/directors keep the information to themselves. And why would they do this? My guess. It would mean pay raises for some of us. Down here I guess they mostly look after themselves instead of each other. Much the same way that would probably happen if EMSAT tried this approach. The only Valley service I have seen as a member of EMSAT is South Texas Emergency Care. Now maybe you guys at EMSAT can look into this matter. Market yourselves and your results will be positive. Hell, send a rep to talk with the service's employees. Re: EMSAT Steve, I don't mean to argue, but I think a lot of the initial disagreement on the list came from the telemarketing. The concern was that EMSAT, through using telemarketing, could be lumped in with other public safety groups that operate as little more than a mechanism for telemarketers to claim over 90 cents per dollar. -Wes > The three most important things to any business or organization's growth: > > Marketing > Marketing > and oh yeah, > > MARKETING. > > We've found it over and over again. The one with the best product or > service doesn't always win. > > The one that MARKETS the best does. > > The real leaders have something to offer thats the best, or above > average, or at least WORTH doing/buying, AND market it well. > > I don't know the answer, but the question is " How do we market EMS as a > profession? " > Answer, we HAVE to do it as a whole, in critical mass. Like a LOT of us. > Question, how do we get us together? Answer, organizing (like EMSAT). > How do we grow EMSAT? like the snake eating it's tail, the circular > answer is MARKETING. > How do we market EMSAT? That's the real question. > > Maybe the telemarketing " solution " isn't defective, but maybe that > particular telemarketing organization isn't doing the job, so we need > another one? > > Just thoughts... > > > =Steve= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Does anyone know how effective ANY telemarketing is? We know it is good enough to keep the minimum wage people employed but how how money is raised, for example, a firefighter union? On Thursday, Mar 25, 2004, at 14:51 US/Central, ExLngHrn@... composed: > Steve, > Â Â Â I don't mean to argue, but I think a lot of the initial > disagreement on > the list came from the telemarketing. The concern was that EMSAT, > through using > telemarketing, could be lumped in with other public safety groups that > operate as little more than a mechanism for telemarketers to claim > over 90 cents per > dollar. > > -Wes > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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