Re: Cautionary note about Ferritin....

[Guest guest]

This is interesting because the Broda Research Foundation and Dr.

Hertoghe tell you that in order to convert T4 to T3 your ferritin should be in

the 130-150 range.

>

> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

[Guest guest]

This is interesting because the Broda Research Foundation and Dr.

Hertoghe tell you that in order to convert T4 to T3 your ferritin should be in

the 130-150 range.

>

> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

[Guest guest]

Thanks for posting this. I was on supplemental iron for a few weeks until

someone from the adrenals group pointed out that my iron tests (not just my

ferritin, which was " low " ) indicated that I did have iron overload disease. I

was tested for the genetic mutation that causes iron overload (hemochromatosis)

and it did come back positive. Iron is definitely something that needs to be

thoroughly investigated before people start supplementing.

Harper

>

> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

>

> Iron Overload: Interview with Drs. Hans Raible and Ray Peat

> Iron (synthetic or not from whole foods), Ferrous Fumarate, Ferrous Succinate,

Ferrous Sulfate, Hemocyte: Synthetic iron is very toxic (ferrous fumarate,

succinate, sulfate, etc.). Synthetic iron can have serious side effects. This

is a summary of the adverse health effects of too much iron: liver dysfunction

(elevated liver enzymes); increased risk of colon, esophageal and bladder

cancer; infections; diabetes and pancreatic disorders; Alzheimer's disease,

Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis and cystic fibrosis; and mental

disorders (anxiety, panic attacks, some forms of dementia) often mistaken for

mental illness and exacerbation of inflammatory disorders such as arthritis.

Other adverse effects: chronic disabling fatigue (from hypothyroidism);

abdominal pain of undetermined origin; gastric problems such as ulcer,

gastritis; bouts of diarrhea or constipation and/or nausea and vomiting not due

to any known cause; black stool (from blood loss); hair loss, sometimes total

head and body; skin may look gray white or slate gray or may turn a deep bronze

hue and look like a suntan; headaches including migraines; progressive hearing

loss; memory loss and confusion; inability to concentrate or to think clearly

and difficulty making decisions; dizziness and loss of balance and coordination;

weakness and shortness of breath upon exertion; edema (fluid retention); weight

changes; visual disturbances such as blurred or failing vision, difficulty

focusing and eye pain; hypothyroidism; heart disease; increase in infections. If

you need iron, take an herbal or food form such as Spl (Thera-zyme) or raisins

or other foods high in iron.

>

> Re blood tests for iron:

>

> Re blood iron, one number is just not enough. There are four tests for iron

Serum iron is commonly measured and the ranges vary among labs but in general

the range is 9 - 30 umol/L. This test measures only the amount of iron present

in the bloodstream but reflects poorly on the amount of iron in storage which

can be measured with a serum ferritin test.

>

> The ferritin level reflects the iron status of an individual and generally is

a fairly good measure of the amount of iron stored in the tissues and the

organs. The medical values for " iron overload " have been steadily coming down

as medical research discover that the toxic levels for iron have been set too

high but not all labs have kept up with this research. Even though they have

come a long way, most Canadian labs still consider anything above 200 ug/L as

too high for women and over 300 ug/L as excessive for men. In the U.S. the

toxic levels are set even lower in many states. For example, in New York State,

the upper limits are 65 ug/L for women and 120 ug/L for men. Dr. Randall

Lauffer, a Harvard Medical School researcher suggests that there may be reason

for concern even at levels above 40 ug/L for both men and women. Labs vary in

their estimates of the lower limit and it varies from 10 to 15 ug/L. To get

some idea of how much iron you have stored away, multiply your serum ferritin by

ten. This tells you the approximate amount of storage iron in your body, in

terms of milligrams (mg). For example, if your ferritin is 50ug/L, you have

about 500 mg or 1/2 gram (500 mg) of storage iron. This is in addition to the

3.5-4 grams or so contained in circulating hemoglobin, bone marrow, myoglobin,

liver, spleen and iron containing enzymes.

>

> To find out how much iron you are absorbing, you need the transferrin

saturation blood test. Transferrin is a carrier protein in the blood that

transports iron from one place to another. In the past, the upper limit of

normal was believed to be around 55%. Recent research has shown that the risk

of developing an iron related illness begins to increase when transferrin

saturation rises above 30%. Values below 15% may be suggestive or iron

deficiency but only when other tests are also indicative of low iron. For

example, transferring saturation levels tend to decrease during infections,

inflammations and other chronic illnesses even when there is no other evidence

of iron deficiency anemia.

>

> Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC) gives us an estimate of the quantity of

iron binding capacity of the blood protein, transferrin that has already been

filled with iron. The percentage of transferrin saturation is determined by

dividing the serum iron test by the TIBC and multiplying by 100. Unfortunately,

neither serum ferritin, transferring saturation nor TIBC tests are routinely

performed by most doctors, even when the patient has unmistakable symptoms of

iron overload.

>

[Guest guest]

What are the symptoms of iron overload?

> >

> > Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

> >

> > Iron Overload: Interview with Drs. Hans Raible and Ray Peat

> > Iron (synthetic or not from whole foods), Ferrous Fumarate, Ferrous

Succinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Hemocyte: Synthetic iron is very toxic (ferrous

fumarate, succinate, sulfate, etc.). Synthetic iron can have serious side

effects. This is a summary of the adverse health effects of too much iron:

liver dysfunction (elevated liver enzymes); increased risk of colon, esophageal

and bladder cancer; infections; diabetes and pancreatic disorders; Alzheimer's

disease, Parkinson's disease, multiple sclerosis and cystic fibrosis; and mental

disorders (anxiety, panic attacks, some forms of dementia) often mistaken for

mental illness and exacerbation of inflammatory disorders such as arthritis.

Other adverse effects: chronic disabling fatigue (from hypothyroidism);

abdominal pain of undetermined origin; gastric problems such as ulcer,

gastritis; bouts of diarrhea or constipation and/or nausea and vomiting not due

to any known cause; black stool (from blood loss); hair loss, sometimes total

head and body; skin may look gray white or slate gray or may turn a deep bronze

hue and look like a suntan; headaches including migraines; progressive hearing

loss; memory loss and confusion; inability to concentrate or to think clearly

and difficulty making decisions; dizziness and loss of balance and coordination;

weakness and shortness of breath upon exertion; edema (fluid retention); weight

changes; visual disturbances such as blurred or failing vision, difficulty

focusing and eye pain; hypothyroidism; heart disease; increase in infections. If

you need iron, take an herbal or food form such as Spl (Thera-zyme) or raisins

or other foods high in iron.

> >

> > Re blood tests for iron:

> >

> > Re blood iron, one number is just not enough. There are four tests for iron

Serum iron is commonly measured and the ranges vary among labs but in general

the range is 9 - 30 umol/L. This test measures only the amount of iron present

in the bloodstream but reflects poorly on the amount of iron in storage which

can be measured with a serum ferritin test.

> >

> > The ferritin level reflects the iron status of an individual and generally

is a fairly good measure of the amount of iron stored in the tissues and the

organs. The medical values for " iron overload " have been steadily coming down

as medical research discover that the toxic levels for iron have been set too

high but not all labs have kept up with this research. Even though they have

come a long way, most Canadian labs still consider anything above 200 ug/L as

too high for women and over 300 ug/L as excessive for men. In the U.S. the

toxic levels are set even lower in many states. For example, in New York State,

the upper limits are 65 ug/L for women and 120 ug/L for men. Dr. Randall

Lauffer, a Harvard Medical School researcher suggests that there may be reason

for concern even at levels above 40 ug/L for both men and women. Labs vary in

their estimates of the lower limit and it varies from 10 to 15 ug/L. To get

some idea of how much iron you have stored away, multiply your serum ferritin by

ten. This tells you the approximate amount of storage iron in your body, in

terms of milligrams (mg). For example, if your ferritin is 50ug/L, you have

about 500 mg or 1/2 gram (500 mg) of storage iron. This is in addition to the

3.5-4 grams or so contained in circulating hemoglobin, bone marrow, myoglobin,

liver, spleen and iron containing enzymes.

> >

> > To find out how much iron you are absorbing, you need the transferrin

saturation blood test. Transferrin is a carrier protein in the blood that

transports iron from one place to another. In the past, the upper limit of

normal was believed to be around 55%. Recent research has shown that the risk

of developing an iron related illness begins to increase when transferrin

saturation rises above 30%. Values below 15% may be suggestive or iron

deficiency but only when other tests are also indicative of low iron. For

example, transferring saturation levels tend to decrease during infections,

inflammations and other chronic illnesses even when there is no other evidence

of iron deficiency anemia.

> >

> > Total Iron Binding Capacity (TIBC) gives us an estimate of the quantity of

iron binding capacity of the blood protein, transferrin that has already been

filled with iron. The percentage of transferrin saturation is determined by

dividing the serum iron test by the TIBC and multiplying by 100. Unfortunately,

neither serum ferritin, transferring saturation nor TIBC tests are routinely

performed by most doctors, even when the patient has unmistakable symptoms of

iron overload.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and

ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was

supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement

or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system

after 2 days.

My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is

this not true?

It is really confusing.

Liz W

[Guest guest]

This is a test you can do to calculate whether or not you have it - I got the

following info from the Iron Overload Diseases Association website.

1.) Serum Iron divided by TIBC = transferrin saturation. The safe range is

12-44%.

Personally, my transferrin saturation was 56%. My endocrinologist completely

missed this and said I was fine. But when I found out that a high TS could mean

iron overload, I asked my doctor to run the DNA test. She checked my iron levels

again and thought it was a good idea. I do have the gene mutation and that's how

I confirmed I have hemochromatosis. But you could still have I.O. disease if you

test negative for the mutation, because there are alot of mutations that have

not been discovered yet.

Yes, my ferritin was low (39) but the rest of my iron was pretty high. I think

that maybe a full iron panel would give people a better idea of where their iron

is at. I'm not sure if what your doctor said was true or not, but at this point

I've come to not trusting what anyone says without researching it for myself.

Someone here just posted how ferritin is stored iron, so maybe that's a clue as

to why it would appear low, because there might be more in the bloodstream or

organs.

Harper

>

> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high

and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I

was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still

supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my

system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin.

Is this not true?

> It is really confusing.

> Liz W

>

[Guest guest]

well now this concerns me. My ferritin is 125 and my father is diabetic. My

naturopath wanted to have go in for blood letting and maybe I should have done

that. I have an appt with her in Oct. I will be bringing this up. Can you put

the link to what you DID find in a post please? Thank so much!

Venizia

> >> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

> >

> There is an interesting article published in the JAMA in 2004 " Body Iron

> Stores in Relation to Risk of Type 2

> Diabetes in Apparently Healthy Women " about the link between higher

> ferritin and risk of developing type 2 diabetes. The data is from the

> Nurses Health Study, and the women with higher ferritin had already

> developed diabetes when the article was written, so it is not a

> speculation about who will or will not develop diabetes.

>

> Most intersting to me is that the mean (median) ferritin level of the

> women with diabetes was only 109, while for the non-diabetic women the

> mean (median) ferritn level was 71.

>

> It can be tricky to find the entire JAMA article (at least I could not

> find it again just now) but I have it saved as PDF and can send it to

> anyone who wants to read it.

>

> There are thyroid " experts " and iron " experts " , the problem is when it

> comes to safe ferritin levels who do we trust? Because the two camps do

> not agree.

> sol

>

[Guest guest]

Of course, I'll email it to you privately!

> > >> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

> > >

> > There is an interesting article published in the JAMA in 2004 " Body Iron

> > Stores in Relation to Risk of Type 2

> > Diabetes in Apparently Healthy Women " about the link between higher

> > ferritin and risk of developing type 2 diabetes. The data is from the

> > Nurses Health Study, and the women with higher ferritin had already

> > developed diabetes when the article was written, so it is not a

> > speculation about who will or will not develop diabetes.

> >

> > Most intersting to me is that the mean (median) ferritin level of the

> > women with diabetes was only 109, while for the non-diabetic women the

> > mean (median) ferritn level was 71.

> >

> > It can be tricky to find the entire JAMA article (at least I could not

> > find it again just now) but I have it saved as PDF and can send it to

> > anyone who wants to read it.

> >

> > There are thyroid " experts " and iron " experts " , the problem is when it

> > comes to safe ferritin levels who do we trust? Because the two camps do

> > not agree.

> > sol

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Harper

My iron saturation was high at 74 for my last test when I was supplementing.

Before I was supplementing my ferritin was 21 but my iron was normal on my blood

test (I didn't do the full panel at the time) so I don't know what to do. What

is the gene mutation test? I wonder if I could get it at econolabs? I can't tell

if all this stuff was a false high because I was taking so much iron at the time

of the test.

So what do you do if your ferritin is low now? Do you try and avoid iron anyway?

Liz W

[Guest guest]

The problem with these studies (not just this one) is that they make these

conclusions, but did they make sure EVERYTHING ELSE EXCEPT FERRITIN was

identical in the two groups?

I see this problem when I see articles for Alzheimers. They will say things like

people with Alzheimers had low DHEA levels. Well, the test subjects were all

well into old age so of course they had low DHEA levels, duh.

Anyway, the doctor I used to see said I would never feel well until my ferritin

was 150!

I thought that was a bit high, but my new doc (who follows Hertoghe closely and

gives me HC) says ferritin should be 100.

I have finally gotten my ferritin into the 90s by taking 180 mg of iron

bisglycinate. My serum level never ever goes high, as my body apparently stores

all the extra I take in, but my saturation % does go about 10 points over the

" normal " end of the lab range. I am not sure if this is significant. My new doc

didn't seem to think it mattered.

Kathleen

> >> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

> >

> There is an interesting article published in the JAMA in 2004 " Body Iron

> Stores in Relation to Risk of Type 2

> Diabetes in Apparently Healthy Women " about the link between higher

> ferritin and risk of developing type 2 diabetes. The data is from the

>

[Guest guest]

The problem with these studies (not just this one) is that they make these

conclusions, but did they make sure EVERYTHING ELSE EXCEPT FERRITIN was

identical in the two groups?

I see this problem when I see articles for Alzheimers. They will say things like

people with Alzheimers had low DHEA levels. Well, the test subjects were all

well into old age so of course they had low DHEA levels, duh.

Anyway, the doctor I used to see said I would never feel well until my ferritin

was 150!

I thought that was a bit high, but my new doc (who follows Hertoghe closely and

gives me HC) says ferritin should be 100.

I have finally gotten my ferritin into the 90s by taking 180 mg of iron

bisglycinate. My serum level never ever goes high, as my body apparently stores

all the extra I take in, but my saturation % does go about 10 points over the

" normal " end of the lab range. I am not sure if this is significant. My new doc

didn't seem to think it mattered.

Kathleen

> >> Folks...I know Ferritin is important for us struggling against thryoid

issues...All of you have been so helpful to me...and I feel a bond with you as

we are struggling together. The biochemists I consult with are cautioning me on

the issue of ferritn...thought I would share this with you....Dr. Lauffer at

Harvard has studies iron extensively...he has concerns about Ferritin levels in

excess of 40...

> >

> There is an interesting article published in the JAMA in 2004 " Body Iron

> Stores in Relation to Risk of Type 2

> Diabetes in Apparently Healthy Women " about the link between higher

> ferritin and risk of developing type 2 diabetes. The data is from the

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Liz,

I don't do anything to raise my ferritin, because I certainly don't need the

extra iron! One of the moderators from the adrenals group, Patty, agreed that I

shouldn't supplement because of my high iron levels and that I'd tolerate

thyroid just fine. So far, that's true. But I still eat iron rich foods (eggs,

cheese, and raisins are high in iron but I eat alot of them) because one blood

draw will take out MUCH more excess iron than cutting foods out of your diet

ever will. It's unhealthy to do that too, and hard to avoid! If you eat

processed foods like breakfast cereals, they're usually " fortified " with

synthetic iron. Those, I don't eat

I'm not sure what your blood tests are telling you...the iron saturation could

just be high because you're supplementing. I'm only a newbie with the whole iron

overload situation, but 74% does sound really high. The normal for a female is

around 30.

The test for iron overload (hemochromatosis) DNA called the HFE Profile. Even if

it comes out negative though, you could still have iron overload. It only tests

for the most common mutations, and there are a ton that are undiscovered.

Hope that helps

Harper

>

> Hi Harper

> My iron saturation was high at 74 for my last test when I was supplementing.

> Before I was supplementing my ferritin was 21 but my iron was normal on my

blood test (I didn't do the full panel at the time) so I don't know what to do.

What is the gene mutation test? I wonder if I could get it at econolabs? I can't

tell if all this stuff was a false high because I was taking so much iron at the

time of the test.

> So what do you do if your ferritin is low now? Do you try and avoid iron

anyway?

> Liz W

>

[Guest guest]

I would encourage you to read through this site:http://www.ironoverload.org/You can even call the guy who runs the site and run your numbers by him. He's not a doctor, but has been trying to raise awareness of iron overload for many years. My last iron labs were as follows:

07.09.09 Iron – 128 (range 35 – 155)07.09.09 Iron Saturation (SAT) – 48 (range 15 – 55)07.09.09 Iron TIBC – 264 (range 250 – 450)07.09.09 Iron UIBC – 136 L (range 150 – 375)

07.09.09 Ferritin – 50 (range 10 – 291)As you can see, my saturation was too high, my UIBC was too low and my serum iron was creeping towards the top of the range - even though my ferritin was normal. My doctor of course said I was " fine " and there was nothing to worry about, but I went ahead and donated blood anyway. From what I've read, one blood donation typically decreases your ferritin by 30 points, and I'm still not experiencing any anxiety. I plan to recheck in a month or so and then keep tabs on it on a regular basis. There's no history of hemochromatosis in my family, so I don't think that's my issue...I think my body just likes to hang onto iron a bit more than it should.

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com--- In RT3_T3 , " lizdoubleu " wrote:

>> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is this not true?> It is really confusing.> Liz W>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Harper

I guess it makes sense that you would not want to raise ferritin if your iron

was high! Duh.

I am going to see about getting tested.

Liz W

[Guest guest]

Birrdyy, I've been wondering about this: Isn't it just iron in general, not

specifically ferritin, that helps us tolerate thyroid? Isn't ferritin just a

storage iron? I've read that ferritin is just actually a protein that's only 20%

iron...so wouldn't that make it less potent?

I sort of think now that people who are going solely by ferritin may be making a

mistake without looking at the rest of the picture. Kind of like how measuring

T4 only isn't the best way to assess thyroid function. It's just a thought, any

ideas? I'm confused here!

Thanks,

Harper

> > >

> > > How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels

> > high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood

> > test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can

> > still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements

> > still in my system after 2 days.

> > > My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low

> > ferritin. Is this not true?

> > > It is really confusing.

> > > Liz W

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think I made a mistake at all. My thyroid numbers didn't look " that bad " for the 15 years before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, but I'd had the disease for at least that long. And leaving it untreated has caused all kinds of issues. I know better than to wait around for things to get bad before doing something about them. You don't excrete iron. So my numbers were never going to go down on their own. They were only going to continue to rise. And I'd rather not wait until my organs are full of iron before taking steps to correct the issue. I'm sure you know as well as I do that the normal ranges labs use are crap. Every hemochromatosis website I found said that iron saturation should be no higher than 35-40% - so by that measure, yes I was above the range.

I understand that ferritin is important, but it's dangerous for people to supplement iron if they don't need it. When I first joined these groups, I assumed that most people with thyroid/adrenal issues had low iron and started supplementing before doing any iron testing...because I'd heard SO many people talk about it. Now, that was a stupid decision on my part - I'm not blaming anyone but me. But it's an easy trap for newbies to fall into and I'd hate to see someone get harmed down the road by making the same mistake I did.

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com--- In RT3_T3 , birrdyy wrote:

>> Rainbow - I wonder if you made a big mistake donating blood.  Your numbers> didn't look that bad and if you donated and the ferritan did come down 30> points you will be in trouble with T3 only.  I know Sol will disagree and of

> course everyone is different but generally...this is not work.  I'm not sure> why you rushed to donate.  If your numbers were over the limit that's> another story but they weren't.

> > I know you're not on very much T3 yet but take my word for it, you will pay> the price when you get up there.  Please rethink this and please keep this> in mind when you start have T3 tolerance problems.

> > Dorothy will tell you that donating was the worst thing she ever did and is> having a very hard time.> > My ferritan is 49 and I'm barely able to tolerate 65 of T3.  I haven't been

> able to optimize for almost a year because of this ferritan situation.  I> know Val is constantly talking about ferritan but I don't think folks are> taking it serious enough.  Just MVHO.

I would encourage you to read through this site:http://www.ironoverload.org/You can even call the guy who runs the site and run your numbers by him. He's not a doctor, but has been trying to raise awareness of iron overload for many years. My last iron labs were as follows:

07.09.09 Iron – 128 (range 35 – 155)07.09.09 Iron Saturation (SAT) – 48 (range 15 – 55)07.09.09 Iron TIBC – 264 (range 250 – 450)07.09.09 Iron UIBC – 136 L (range 150 – 375)

07.09.09 Ferritin – 50 (range 10 – 291)As you can see, my saturation was too high, my UIBC was too low and my serum iron was creeping towards the top of the range - even though my ferritin was normal. My doctor of course said I was " fine " and there was nothing to worry about, but I went ahead and donated blood anyway. From what I've read, one blood donation typically decreases your ferritin by 30 points, and I'm still not experiencing any anxiety. I plan to recheck in a month or so and then keep tabs on it on a regular basis. There's no history of hemochromatosis in my family, so I don't think that's my issue...I think my body just likes to hang onto iron a bit more than it should.

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com

>> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is this not true?> It is really confusing.> Liz W>

[Guest guest]

I don't think I made a mistake at all. My thyroid numbers didn't look " that bad " for the 15 years before I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, but I'd had the disease for at least that long. And leaving it untreated has caused all kinds of issues. I know better than to wait around for things to get bad before doing something about them. You don't excrete iron. So my numbers were never going to go down on their own. They were only going to continue to rise. And I'd rather not wait until my organs are full of iron before taking steps to correct the issue. I'm sure you know as well as I do that the normal ranges labs use are crap. Every hemochromatosis website I found said that iron saturation should be no higher than 35-40% - so by that measure, yes I was above the range.

I understand that ferritin is important, but it's dangerous for people to supplement iron if they don't need it. When I first joined these groups, I assumed that most people with thyroid/adrenal issues had low iron and started supplementing before doing any iron testing...because I'd heard SO many people talk about it. Now, that was a stupid decision on my part - I'm not blaming anyone but me. But it's an easy trap for newbies to fall into and I'd hate to see someone get harmed down the road by making the same mistake I did.

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com--- In RT3_T3 , birrdyy wrote:

>> Rainbow - I wonder if you made a big mistake donating blood.  Your numbers> didn't look that bad and if you donated and the ferritan did come down 30> points you will be in trouble with T3 only.  I know Sol will disagree and of

> course everyone is different but generally...this is not work.  I'm not sure> why you rushed to donate.  If your numbers were over the limit that's> another story but they weren't.

> > I know you're not on very much T3 yet but take my word for it, you will pay> the price when you get up there.  Please rethink this and please keep this> in mind when you start have T3 tolerance problems.

> > Dorothy will tell you that donating was the worst thing she ever did and is> having a very hard time.> > My ferritan is 49 and I'm barely able to tolerate 65 of T3.  I haven't been

> able to optimize for almost a year because of this ferritan situation.  I> know Val is constantly talking about ferritan but I don't think folks are> taking it serious enough.  Just MVHO.

I would encourage you to read through this site:http://www.ironoverload.org/You can even call the guy who runs the site and run your numbers by him. He's not a doctor, but has been trying to raise awareness of iron overload for many years. My last iron labs were as follows:

07.09.09 Iron – 128 (range 35 – 155)07.09.09 Iron Saturation (SAT) – 48 (range 15 – 55)07.09.09 Iron TIBC – 264 (range 250 – 450)07.09.09 Iron UIBC – 136 L (range 150 – 375)

07.09.09 Ferritin – 50 (range 10 – 291)As you can see, my saturation was too high, my UIBC was too low and my serum iron was creeping towards the top of the range - even though my ferritin was normal. My doctor of course said I was " fine " and there was nothing to worry about, but I went ahead and donated blood anyway. From what I've read, one blood donation typically decreases your ferritin by 30 points, and I'm still not experiencing any anxiety. I plan to recheck in a month or so and then keep tabs on it on a regular basis. There's no history of hemochromatosis in my family, so I don't think that's my issue...I think my body just likes to hang onto iron a bit more than it should.

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com

>> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is this not true?> It is really confusing.> Liz W>

[Guest guest]

What symptoms should I be on the lookout for, apart from anxiety, to know whether or not I'm tolerating a T3 raise? Right now I'm on 37.5mcg and my temps haven't restabilized yet, so I'm not sure when I'll raise again. I'm only going up in 6.25mcg increments to make it as easy on my body as possible.

Surely the way the body utilizes iron in relation to thyroid is a combination of ferritin and regular iron - don't you think? I just can't imagine that a person with a lot of circulating iron, yet lowish ferritin, would still need to supplement. If I'm missing something about how all of this works together, please teach me

Is there a particular reason that being on T3 only increases the importance of ferritin?~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat Sensitivity

Rx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tspMy Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com

>> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is this not true?> It is really confusing.> Liz W>

[Guest guest]

Thyroid is an intercellular signal. It is a signal produced by the thyroid gland

which travels to other cells in the body, where it triggers changes in cellular

metabolism, which results in an increase in metabolism and energy production and

thermogenesis (heat production). These changes include growth in the size and

number of mitochondria.

Iron works at the cellular metabolic level/nutrient level. Iron is part of the

structure of numerous enzymes involved in energy production. It is part of the

cytochrome enzymes which serve as electron carriers in the synthesis of ATP in

mitochondria. It is part of the structure of enzymes such as NADH dehydrogenase,

Succinate Dehydrogenase, and Aconitase, which are central to the function of the

Citric Acid Cycle in mitochondria. The citric acid cycle is where the body

processes carbohydrates, pyruvate, acetyl-CoA, etc. into ATP.

Without iron, the metabolic actions triggered by thyroid hormone grind to a

halt. No ATP, not cellular metabolism. Thyroid hormone replacement does not work

well without adequate iron levels - best measured by serum Ferritin levels.

Note that excessive iron is highly oxidizing and destructive. Thus I prefer the

midrange when it comes to an " optimal " level.

I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

> >> >

> >> > How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels

> >> high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood

> >> test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can

> >> still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements

> >> still in my system after 2 days.

> >> > My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low

> >> ferritin. Is this not true?

> >> > It is really confusing.

> >> > Liz W

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So basically the symptoms you can look forward to are those associated with

hyperthyroidism because on a blood serum level your body will interepret the

pooled thyroid (because it can't bind)as hyper. On a tissue level, you will also

remain hypoT. This is because the thyroid can't contribute to usable forms of

energy(ATP). Its not a fun ride. BTDT. With a ferritin of 15. Get infusions:)

[Guest guest]

The real question I see being asked here is this: If I have a normal midrange

iron level but low ferritin, what's the real problem with a low storage iron

(ferritin)? Well its all a game of numbers. A big shout out to Sol who seems to

be the exception. Personally, I wish I was:(

You ever saw that movie " He's just not that into you " ? LIke they say in the

movie, everybody likes to be the exception but really most of us are the rule.

By supplementing thyroid under 60, you have a 1/400 chance of putting yourself

at risk for hemohromatosis. This is perfectly applicable in this case. Most of

us need a ferritin between 70-90 to use thyroid properly.

There are other test that can be done to see if you are at risk for

hemohromatosis. If you are concerned, I would totally do them.

>

> > So basically the symptoms you can look forward to are those associated with

> > hyperthyroidism because on a blood serum level your body will interepret the

> > pooled thyroid (because it can't bind)as hyper. On a tissue level, you will

> > also remain hypoT. This is because the thyroid can't contribute to usable

> > forms of energy(ATP). Its not a fun ride. BTDT. With a ferritin of 15. Get

> > infusions:)

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The real question I see being asked here is this: If I have a normal midrange

iron level but low ferritin, what's the real problem with a low storage iron

(ferritin)? Well its all a game of numbers. A big shout out to Sol who seems to

be the exception. Personally, I wish I was:(

You ever saw that movie " He's just not that into you " ? LIke they say in the

movie, everybody likes to be the exception but really most of us are the rule.

By supplementing thyroid under 60, you have a 1/400 chance of putting yourself

at risk for hemohromatosis. This is perfectly applicable in this case. Most of

us need a ferritin between 70-90 to use thyroid properly.

There are other test that can be done to see if you are at risk for

hemohromatosis. If you are concerned, I would totally do them.

>

> > So basically the symptoms you can look forward to are those associated with

> > hyperthyroidism because on a blood serum level your body will interepret the

> > pooled thyroid (because it can't bind)as hyper. On a tissue level, you will

> > also remain hypoT. This is because the thyroid can't contribute to usable

> > forms of energy(ATP). Its not a fun ride. BTDT. With a ferritin of 15. Get

> > infusions:)

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

So it's iron that the body is using - not ferritin. But typically a person's iron levels will coincide with their ferritin level - is that about right?But that wouldn't apply to a person like me who had lowish ferritin with highish iron and high iron saturation. So, in my case, I would need to rely more on iron levels than ferritin levels. Correct?

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com--- In RT3_T3 , " purdeaux04 " wrote:

>> Thyroid is an intercellular signal. It is a signal produced by the thyroid gland which travels to other cells in the body, where it triggers changes in cellular metabolism, which results in an increase in metabolism and energy production and thermogenesis (heat production). These changes include growth in the size and number of mitochondria.

> > Iron works at the cellular metabolic level/nutrient level. Iron is part of the structure of numerous enzymes involved in energy production. It is part of the cytochrome enzymes which serve as electron carriers in the synthesis of ATP in mitochondria. It is part of the structure of enzymes such as NADH dehydrogenase, Succinate Dehydrogenase, and Aconitase, which are central to the function of the Citric Acid Cycle in mitochondria. The citric acid cycle is where the body processes carbohydrates, pyruvate, acetyl-CoA, etc. into ATP. 

> > Without iron, the metabolic actions triggered by thyroid hormone grind to a halt. No ATP, not cellular metabolism. Thyroid hormone replacement does not work well without adequate iron levels - best measured by serum Ferritin levels.

> > Note that excessive iron is highly oxidizing and destructive. Thus I prefer the midrange when it comes to an " optimal " level.> > I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

What symptoms should I be on the lookout for, apart from anxiety, to know whether or not I'm tolerating a T3 raise? Right now I'm on 37.5mcg and my temps haven't restabilized yet, so I'm not sure when I'll raise again. I'm only going up in 6.25mcg increments to make it as easy on my body as possible.

Surely the way the body utilizes iron in relation to thyroid is a combination of ferritin and regular iron - don't you think? I just can't imagine that a person with a lot of circulating iron, yet lowish ferritin, would still need to supplement. If I'm missing something about how all of this works together, please teach me

Is there a particular reason that being on T3 only increases the importance of ferritin?~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbs

Dx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat Sensitivity

Rx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tspMy Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com

>> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is this not true?> It is really confusing.> Liz W>

[Guest guest]

I'm certainly not trying to be the exception...lol. I'd much rather have ferritin levels that make sense alongside my iron levels. But that hasn't been my luck thus far.I don't understand what you mean about supplementing thyroid under 60. Do you mean under the age of 60? Why would that increase a person's chance for getting hemochromatosis, since it's a genetic disease?

~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbsDx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat SensitivityRx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tsp

My Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com--- In RT3_T3 , " purdeaux04 " wrote:

>> The real question I see being asked here is this: If I have a normal midrange iron level but low ferritin, what's the real problem with a low storage iron (ferritin)? Well its all a game of numbers. A big shout out to Sol who seems to be the exception. Personally, I wish I was:(

> > You ever saw that movie " He's just not that into you " ? LIke they say in the movie, everybody likes to be the exception but really most of us are the rule. By supplementing thyroid under 60, you have a 1/400 chance of putting yourself at risk for hemohromatosis. This is perfectly applicable in this case. Most of us need a ferritin between 70-90 to use thyroid properly. 

> > There are other test that can be done to see if you are at risk for hemohromatosis. If you are concerned, I would totally do them. 

What symptoms should I be on the lookout for, apart from anxiety, to know whether or not I'm tolerating a T3 raise? Right now I'm on 37.5mcg and my temps haven't restabilized yet, so I'm not sure when I'll raise again. I'm only going up in 6.25mcg increments to make it as easy on my body as possible.

Surely the way the body utilizes iron in relation to thyroid is a combination of ferritin and regular iron - don't you think? I just can't imagine that a person with a lot of circulating iron, yet lowish ferritin, would still need to supplement. If I'm missing something about how all of this works together, please teach me

Is there a particular reason that being on T3 only increases the importance of ferritin?~Rainbow~29 year old Female 5'6 " 130lbs

Dx: Hashi's, AF, Wheat Sensitivity

Rx/OTC: Cynomel 37.5mcg, HC 27.5mg, Potassium Cl 20meq, Sea Salt 1.75tspMy Log: http://tinyurl.com/pvgjmbMy Blog: http://hyporainbow.wordpress.com

>> How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I can still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements still in my system after 2 days.

> My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low ferritin. Is this not true?> It is really confusing.> Liz W>

[Guest guest]

Serum ferritin level - Ferritin is an indicator of stored iron in the body.

Ferritin is the main protein that stores iron for areas that need it, especially

the liver and the bone marrow where red blood cells are made. The iron ferritin

level is the first in line to drop if the individual suffers any iron

insufficiency from diet,hypothyroidism, malabsorption or loss during heavy or

menstruation lasting more than 5 days. A drop in the iron ferritin level occurs

before any depletion in serum iron (as seen in iron-deficient anemia) and may

decrease significantly without any obvious symptoms whatsoever. While the serum

ferritin level at which a deficiency can be claimed is hotly argued by different

schools of doctors, an excess of serum ferritin is generally agreed to be a bad

thing.

So no, iron levels don't always coinside with ferritin levels. Often, ferritin

levels go low before iron serum levels do. If ferritin didn't directly effect

tissues (not just total iron serum levels), high ferritin (above 150) wouldn't

be so dangerous. If that was the case, only high iron serum levels would be be

dangerous. Iron serum levels can change rapidly, so I believe ferritin to be

more accurate of a steady state.

07.09.09 Iron – 128 (range 35 – 155)

> >>> 07.09.09 Iron Saturation (SAT) – 48 (range 15 – 55)

> >>> 07.09.09 Iron TIBC – 264 (range 250 – 450)

> >>> 07.09.09 Iron UIBC – 136 L (range 150 – 375)

> >>> 07.09.09 Ferritin – 50 (range 10 – 291)

I see no levels that are out of range high- am I missing something here??? All

this last test means is that you are not clinically anemic YET. An elevated

transferrin-iron saturation percentage is usually greater than 50%. Just as

early signs of adrenal fatigue are HIGH cortisol, this may be your bodies way of

compensating for low storage iron (resulting in a higher - but NOT high

saturation level). Also, transferrin levels are highly genetic and NOT the sole

way to diagnose iron overload.

Of course all this is your decision but I think it would be foolish to put

yourself at risk for anemia before taking at least one more blood test.

> >>> >

> >>> > How did they know you had iron overload disease? Were your iron levels

> >>> high and ferritin low? This is how my levels came out after the last blood

> >>> test. I was supplemnting a lot of iron at the time so I don't know if I

can

> >>> still supplement or not. I don't know if it was just from the supplements

> >>> still in my system after 2 days.

> >>> > My doctor said that you cannot have iron overload disease with low

> >>> ferritin. Is this not true?

> >>> > It is really confusing.

> >>> > Liz W

> >>> >

> >>>

> >>

> >>

> >

>