Re: Alec....here we go

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/29/02 2:00:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

myfishruleWJG@... writes:

> I don't know if it will make you feel any better but my stepdaughter at age

> 12 didn't know her left from her right. She's the NT one.

>

> G

>

>

>

I've had employees like that...I am in Georgia after all.

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/29/02 3:16:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

myfishruleWJG@... writes:

> Ron

>

> I suppose you have tried to have bio dad declared mentally incompetent to

> handle Alec? It sounds like you've been threw the wringer. That's the

> thing

> about divorce you're still stuck with the person you'd like to get rid of.

> Any change of moving away?

>

> G

>

>

>

I'm seriously working on the mentally incompetent issue....

We can't move away...at least right now....nor would it be good for

Alec....though bio-dad could be the king of the idiots, he's still Alec's dad

and Alec thinks the world of him.

In Alec's world, I'm the bad guy.

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/29/02 3:23:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rgr4us@...

writes:

> Ron,

>

> There is a new book out just recently about NLD and Asperger's

> called " Bridging the Gap " , by Rondalyn V. Whitney, MOT, OTR. I have

> not read it yet, but I am acquainted through the internet (OTpeds

> list) with the author, as she is heavily involved with the NLD site,

> and I believe she has a child with NLD. I think it is probably a

> good resource, and it costs not so much (around $12, I think) that

> it's worth a shot, maybe?

>

> I'm thinking that you and Terri can get some good ideas about dealing

> with things at home, maybe some intervention ideas, as she goes

> through all of those and reviews them...

>

> Raena

>

>

>

>

Thanks Raena...I'll look into it.

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/29/02 4:09:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

nospam@... writes:

> Has bio-Dad come around at all about getting Alec the help he needs???

>

> {{{Ron & Terry}}}

>

> Penny

>

>

>

Ahhhh...nope...

In fact his reaction to the peeing incident was agreeing that Alec is very

immature...he also stated that he shouldn't immitate the things Sam

does....bio-dad translation....Sam taught Alec how to pee on people.....

Bio-dad's reaction to Alec getting detention... " I'm very disappointed in you

Alec. "

Bio-dad's reaction to a D... " I'm very diappointed in you Alec. "

Bio-dad's reaction to Alec getting thrown out of school for the day for

throwing rocks at cars... " I'm very disappointed in you Alec. "

That's what we have to deal with.

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/29/02 4:19:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

nospam@... writes:

> Ron....

>

> I know I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

>

> Alec sounds like my son. (except for the urination...) He really does. My

> son had some serious issues, and I never dealt with them.

>

> If it is AT ALL humanly possible, screw bio-dad and get Alec to a

> child-psychologist NOW.

>

> I guarantee you, this will only get worse as he gets older.

>

> I'm sooo sorry that bio-dad is such an A$$!!!!

>

> Penny

>

>

>

We're working on it Penny...we're working on it

Ron...said in his best Corleone immitation talking to Kate.

[Guest guest]

Re: Alec....here we go

>

> And now that my anger has somewhat subsided, with contributions on this

topic

> from the list and from Terry's best friend who has raised several of her

own

> kids and is one of 14 in her family, I'm leaning toward this being a

maturity

> issue rather than a deviant issue.

> Alec is extremley immature for his age. He'll be 11 in June, yet exhibits

> some very babyfied behavior in, personal responsibility and social issues.

> I've toyed with the idea that I may be expecting too much.

For a NT kid, your expectations are dead on. For an NLD kid, I'd say you're

probably right in

thinking you're expecting too much. IF his diagnosis is NLD, then he is

basically an Aspergers kid.

However, I can't

> get out of my head that at 10 years old, by now he should be able to

> understand that:

> ...homework is to be done and done properly in order to succeed.

> ...chores, though they are not fun, are a fact of life....picking up ones

> room, i.e., putting clothes in the hamper, picking up toys are facts of

life.

> ...The above should be able to be done without an hour long pouting, foot

> stomping session, where threats and/or mild punishment, (no t.v. etc.) are

> not needed to be enforced.

> ...showing him an alternative means of accomplishing a task is not a

personal

> attack on his abilities or knowledge but a teaching mechanism to

accomplish a

> task more efficiently and completely therefore eliminating extra

time....time

> which can be used for personal pleasure....

These are all things I deal with daily with both of my boys. They so far

have no

organizational skills. They don't understand why something should be put

away

if they no that later (today, tomorrow, the next day...) they are going to

use

it again. School work is hard because of comprehesion and auditory processi

ng

issues. We fight ( and I) almost everytime he has homework, yet if he

didn't fight,

he'd be done in only 10 minutes or so. The arguments last longer!

> ...socially, I'd think that the peeing episode is somewhat " normal " though

> bizzare. It may not happen with all kids but certainly Alec isn't the

first

> child to do this....though at age 10, I'd think, like you have stated, I'd

> expect it from 3-5 year olds and not a " normal " (according to his dad) 10

> year old.

I haven't seen your original post, but if this has anything to do with

peeing outside,

instead of bothering to come into the house, we just started this in the

last 6 months with

both of the boys....and just turned 12! I think it's like they are

going through a

stage that they missed when they were younger. This type of late experience

does

happen with spectrum kids.

Nice to be hearing from you again!! You and Terry both!

Sue

[Guest guest]

Ron,

That was my guess. I am asuming that he just wasnt thinking about

what he was really doing. Was Sam bothered by it or did he find it

amusing? Just wondering. Not that that would make it more acceptable

but maybe Alec is just way too immature to have put any thought

behind what he was doing. I know you guys know he needs help and that

Alec's dad is the one who stops Alec from getting the help he so

desperately needs. I hope things get better.

Jacquie H

> In a message dated 4/29/02 1:45:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> jacquie_harris@n... writes:

>

>

> > I can understand the frustration but I myself am not the type to

get

> > very angry. I am sure that Jeff would have been though. Greggory

has

> > been known to pee for " entertainment " if you can call if that. He

has

> > taken to peeing in a cup in the bathroom instead of the toliet

and

> > then proceeds to show Alec. ~sigh~ I figure alot of kids do this

sort

> > of stuff but maybe not to the same extreme as our kids do. Was

Alec

> > trying to be mean?

> > Jacquie H

> >

> >

> >

>

> I don't know....I think I tend to side with what

said....some kids

> just do things without thinking....apparently it was a good idea at

the time.

>

> Ron

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think you're right to be worried Ron...I have been on the receiving end of

coming to realise that almost anything is possible...just be aware, that's all

you can do...

(inAus)

Alec will be 11 in June....

Puberty has been thought of....what concerns me is, Alec's dx and his other

behavior prior to reaching this age.

Couple past behaviors with what is going on and God knows what's next.

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron: Not having reached this stage, I cannot offer

much advise. I just wanted you guys to know that I am

here and very glad to listen. I am so sorry you are

all going through this. How frustrating not to be

able to get some help for him!

Tamara

--- Bosocks1@... wrote:

> In a message dated 4/29/02 8:04:36 AM Eastern

> Daylight Time,

> ajhelmuth@... writes:

>

>

> > Ron,

> > After reading this post, I was more concerned.

> Alec is acting just like

> > Bethany who definitely has anxiety issues, if not

> more. She is seeing a

> > therapist off and on (when things are bad). I

> truly hope you can convince

> > Alec's dad to get him some help. This morning I

> also remembered reading

> > somewhere that inappropriate peeing can be a sign

> of physical abuse. Just

> > wanted to throw that out there. If I can remember

> where I read that, I'll

> > let you know.

> >

> > Amy H--in Michigan

> >

>

> Well, therapy at this point is out of the question

> for Alec. Terry and I

> tried to get Alec some help. The result? Bio-dad

> sued Terry for

> custody...this is still pending. Alec has been

> evaled 3 times....the first

> time he was dx'd ADHD....given counseling and a test

> run on Concerta

> (sic?)....his dad then sued for

> custody....threatened to sue the facility

> which was treating Alec. The lawyers of the

> facility told the docs that if

> Alec wasn't suicidal to send him on his way.

> The second dx, done by another Psychiatrist

> confirmed the first dx. Alec was

> referred by him to a pyschologist who gave him a

> battery of tests. ADHD

> could not be confirmed. What came up though was a

> Non Verbal Learning

> Disability. Oddly enough, this is now on the high

> end of the Autism

> spectrum. The psychologist said she was more

> concerned with the NLD dx,

> which by the way manifests behaviors very similar to

> ADHD, because of the

> high suicide rate amongst these children. She said,

> however, that she would

> NOT provide counseling for Alec without the

> participation of bio-dad....of

> course he refused to admit anything wrong or

> participate in any counseling.

> Alec went to another psychologist via court order.

> Bio-dad, was ordered to

> participate. Somehow, (I'm thinking our lawyer

> dropped the ball here), this

> court ordered visit was to determine whether Alec

> needed meds or not.

> Bio-dad spun, as usual, that Terry just wanted Alec

> on drugs. The psych said

> there was nothing wrong with Alec other than his

> enviroment...i.e. it's

> Terry's and my fault if Alec is exhibiting poor

> behavior.

> Bio-dad, obviously spun his story to the

> psych...failing to give information

> such as.....

>

> ...Bio-dads own ADD dx.

> ...Bio-dads math dyxlexsia

> ...Bio-dads own psych hospitalization, once at 17

> and once again at around 35

> ...Bio-dads dx of sex addiction.

> ...Bio-dads threats to Alec that he would send him

> to a doctor if his

> behavior didn't change.

> ...Bio-dad calling Terry and I on numerous occasions

> stating " I can't handle

> him anymore " or " I think he's ADD or something. "

> ...Bio-dads inability or unwillingness to care for

> Alec when he is sick.

> ...Bio-dads constant spanking...up until he sued for

> custody that is, (now he

> claims Alec's behavior is impeccable) even though he

> had him just on

> weekends. These spankings happened EVERY weekend

> even though there was

> absololetly no responsbilities...i.e. homework,

> household chores etc.

> ...Bio-dads open disdain for the psychiatric

> community...(more than likely

> stemming from dx's of his own he now perceives as

> bogus).

> ...Bio-dads poor impulse control stemming in

> abnormal sexual

> activity....A)having repeated marital

> affairs...B)being reprimanded for

> sexual harrasment C)sexual encounters in the work

> place, i.e. having oral sex

> with a fellow employee in the work place in an

> office adjacent to where his

> wife was working....

>

> I'm sure there is more I've either forgotten or

> don't know.

>

> I'm aware of the abuse senario and have done some

> personal investigation.

> Before I had my own business, I was in the medical

> communinty having worked 2

> lock down psych wards. Terry is and RN....

>

> I don't think there is sexual abuse and/or physical

> abuse....

>

> I truly believe Alec's behaviors are manifestations

> of his NLD dx....what we

> are witnessing is an increase in unacceptable social

> behaviors that conicide

> with the NLD dx.

> If the dx is true, what we can expect without

> treatment is:

>

> ...an increase in socially unacceptable behavior.

> ...an increase in worthlessness due to inability to

> follow direction or

> concentrate, therfore a feeling of ineptitude.

> ...an increase in isolation due to the feeling of

> not being like other

> children.

> ...an increase in depression.

> ...an increase in not wanting to live.

>

> in the last 2.5 years, Alec has....

>

> ...ran away from home x1 with a 2nd failed attempt

> (he changed his mind after

> about 20 minutes gone).

> ...expressed feelings of inept and not wanting to

> live anymore.

> ...experienced a panic attack.

> ...Grades have gone from A's to C's and D's.

> ...Been thrown out of a private school for a day for

> throwing rocks at cars.

> ...increase in lying.

> ...increase in secretivness.

> ...continues to show inability to socialize with

> peers, (thought being

> honest, this has improved through the current year).

> ...inability to cope with day to day living.

> ...continued forgetfulness...lossing clothes, books

> etc.

> ...of course the new peeing episode.

> ...tanrumming and pouting.

> ...inability to mature to age appropriatness.

>

> I think Terry could add some things.

>

> Sorry for the length...

>

> Ron....who apparently is once again a post-aholic

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

=====

Tamara

mom to :

Ebony, 4 yrs -- asd, ADHD, bi-polar

, 1 year

wife to:

Terry, love of my life

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Sounds like Roland. Except that Alec's biodad has his intensity turned up

further. I wish you luck in whatever steps you have to take to get your family

out of the situation.

B

Re: Alec....here we go

In a message dated 4/29/02 8:04:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

ajhelmuth@... writes:

> Ron,

> After reading this post, I was more concerned. Alec is acting just like

> Bethany who definitely has anxiety issues, if not more. She is seeing a

> therapist off and on (when things are bad). I truly hope you can convince

> Alec's dad to get him some help. This morning I also remembered reading

> somewhere that inappropriate peeing can be a sign of physical abuse. Just

> wanted to throw that out there. If I can remember where I read that, I'll

> let you know.

>

> Amy H--in Michigan

>

Well, therapy at this point is out of the question for Alec. Terry and I

tried to get Alec some help. The result? Bio-dad sued Terry for

custody...this is still pending. Alec has been evaled 3 times....the first

time he was dx'd ADHD....given counseling and a test run on Concerta

(sic?)....his dad then sued for custody....threatened to sue the facility

which was treating Alec. The lawyers of the facility told the docs that if

Alec wasn't suicidal to send him on his way.

The second dx, done by another Psychiatrist confirmed the first dx. Alec was

referred by him to a pyschologist who gave him a battery of tests. ADHD

could not be confirmed. What came up though was a Non Verbal Learning

Disability. Oddly enough, this is now on the high end of the Autism

spectrum. The psychologist said she was more concerned with the NLD dx,

which by the way manifests behaviors very similar to ADHD, because of the

high suicide rate amongst these children. She said, however, that she would

NOT provide counseling for Alec without the participation of bio-dad....of

course he refused to admit anything wrong or participate in any counseling.

Alec went to another psychologist via court order. Bio-dad, was ordered to

participate. Somehow, (I'm thinking our lawyer dropped the ball here), this

court ordered visit was to determine whether Alec needed meds or not.

Bio-dad spun, as usual, that Terry just wanted Alec on drugs. The psych said

there was nothing wrong with Alec other than his enviroment...i.e. it's

Terry's and my fault if Alec is exhibiting poor behavior.

Bio-dad, obviously spun his story to the psych...failing to give information

such as.....

...Bio-dads own ADD dx.

...Bio-dads math dyxlexsia

...Bio-dads own psych hospitalization, once at 17 and once again at around 35

...Bio-dads dx of sex addiction.

...Bio-dads threats to Alec that he would send him to a doctor if his

behavior didn't change.

...Bio-dad calling Terry and I on numerous occasions stating " I can't handle

him anymore " or " I think he's ADD or something. "

...Bio-dads inability or unwillingness to care for Alec when he is sick.

...Bio-dads constant spanking...up until he sued for custody that is, (now he

claims Alec's behavior is impeccable) even though he had him just on

weekends. These spankings happened EVERY weekend even though there was

absololetly no responsbilities...i.e. homework, household chores etc.

...Bio-dads open disdain for the psychiatric community...(more than likely

stemming from dx's of his own he now perceives as bogus).

...Bio-dads poor impulse control stemming in abnormal sexual

activity....A)having repeated marital affairs...B)being reprimanded for

sexual harrasment C)sexual encounters in the work place, i.e. having oral sex

with a fellow employee in the work place in an office adjacent to where his

wife was working....

I'm sure there is more I've either forgotten or don't know.

I'm aware of the abuse senario and have done some personal investigation.

Before I had my own business, I was in the medical communinty having worked 2

lock down psych wards. Terry is and RN....

I don't think there is sexual abuse and/or physical abuse....

I truly believe Alec's behaviors are manifestations of his NLD dx....what we

are witnessing is an increase in unacceptable social behaviors that conicide

with the NLD dx.

If the dx is true, what we can expect without treatment is:

...an increase in socially unacceptable behavior.

...an increase in worthlessness due to inability to follow direction or

concentrate, therfore a feeling of ineptitude.

...an increase in isolation due to the feeling of not being like other

children.

...an increase in depression.

...an increase in not wanting to live.

in the last 2.5 years, Alec has....

...ran away from home x1 with a 2nd failed attempt (he changed his mind after

about 20 minutes gone).

...expressed feelings of inept and not wanting to live anymore.

...experienced a panic attack.

...Grades have gone from A's to C's and D's.

...Been thrown out of a private school for a day for throwing rocks at cars.

...increase in lying.

...increase in secretivness.

...continues to show inability to socialize with peers, (thought being

honest, this has improved through the current year).

...inability to cope with day to day living.

...continued forgetfulness...lossing clothes, books etc.

...of course the new peeing episode.

...tanrumming and pouting.

...inability to mature to age appropriatness.

I think Terry could add some things.

Sorry for the length...

Ron....who apparently is once again a post-aholic

[Guest guest]

Alec sounds alot like A.G. when he was 10-11. We are still dealing with some of

those problems, but they're getting better. Hopefully, alec's will too.

B

Re: Alec....here we go

In a message dated 4/29/02 6:56:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

madness4midnight@... writes:

> 1) Yep, but both my asd child has done this AND my NT child (but he was just

> turning 4 when he did it) The difference was I could tell my NT kid not to

> do

> it every again and he listened. Not true with . Although this is not

> an

> everyday occurrence anymore, it has happened...I just don't let him take

> baths anymore with the other kids.

> Tommi

>

>

>

And now that my anger has somewhat subsided, with contributions on this topic

from the list and from Terry's best friend who has raised several of her own

kids and is one of 14 in her family, I'm leaning toward this being a maturity

issue rather than a deviant issue.

Alec is extremley immature for his age. He'll be 11 in June, yet exhibits

some very babyfied behavior in, personal responsibility and social issues.

I've toyed with the idea that I may be expecting too much. However, I can't

get out of my head that at 10 years old, by now he should be able to

understand that:

...homework is to be done and done properly in order to succeed.

...chores, though they are not fun, are a fact of life....picking up ones

room, i.e., putting clothes in the hamper, picking up toys are facts of life.

...The above should be able to be done without an hour long pouting, foot

stomping session, where threats and/or mild punishment, (no t.v. etc.) are

not needed to be enforced.

...showing him an alternative means of accomplishing a task is not a personal

attack on his abilities or knowledge but a teaching mechanism to accomplish a

task more efficiently and completely therefore eliminating extra time....time

which can be used for personal pleasure....

...socially, I'd think that the peeing episode is somewhat " normal " though

bizzare. It may not happen with all kids but certainly Alec isn't the first

child to do this....though at age 10, I'd think, like you have stated, I'd

expect it from 3-5 year olds and not a " normal " (according to his dad) 10

year old.

I can go on, but for now, I have to get Alec to school and go to work....

I'll write later...

thanks again

Ron

[Guest guest]

UMMM... Actually, pees on EVERY single time they get in the tub

together. He doesn't as much any more, but this is only after 1.5 years of me

ignoring it (VERY VERY difficult) and rinsing off, no comments. He still

does it, they are woring onit with him in behavioral therapy and at school. I

can't offer anything but my complete and total understanding and sympathy!!

Bosocks1@... wrote:

>I went upstairs tonight to check on the kids.  Alec was supposed to be

>pouring Sam and Abbie a bath.  When I got up there, I saw Sam and Abbie in

>the tub.  Alec was straddling both sides of the tub, standing, laughing,

>singing " London Bridge Is Falling Down " a peeing on Sam's head.

>

>I saw RED....I snatched Alec up and sent him downstairs while I checked on

>Sam.  I came down stairs and for maybe the 5-6 time in the last 5.5 years I

>wacked him on his but...3-4 times.  I was as angry as I have been in a very

>long time.  I had to leave the house.  I paced, smoked 1/2 pack of KOOLS and

>came back in.

>

>A few questions for anyone.

>

>1)Has anyone else experienced inappropriate urnination i.e. pissing on

>siblings?

>

>2)Am I over reacting?  Is this normal?

>

>

>Ron

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 4/30/02 9:35:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

rykatemom@... writes:

> UMMM... Actually, pees on EVERY single time they get in the tub

> together. He doesn't as much any more, but this is only after 1.5 years of

> me ignoring it (VERY VERY difficult) and rinsing off, no comments. He

> still does it, they are woring onit with him in behavioral therapy and at

> school. I can't offer anything but my complete and total understanding and

> sympathy!!

>

>

>

>

That's part of the point .....

After investigation...though weird...it's not uncommone for 2,3,4 year olds

to do this....

Alec is going to be 11 in June.

Ron

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/1/02 7:33:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

smgaska@... writes:

> Ron,

> I guess the question would be: Where is he at in his social and emotional

> developement? Spectrum kids are usually behind in that area from their

> chronilogical age, so maybe it's an earlier stage that wasn't completed when

> he was younger?

> Sue

>

Alec is VERY immature for his age....even bio-dad agrees to this.

He also exhibits some OT stuff....trouble tying shoes, extremely poor

handwriting....

He shows the signs of NLD....are hands are tied getting him pro help right now

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron,

I guess the question would be: Where is he at in his social and emotional

developement? Spectrum kids are usually behind in that area from their

chronilogical age, so maybe it's an earlier stage that wasn't completed when

he was younger?

Sue

>

> That's part of the point .....

> After investigation...though weird...it's not uncommone for 2,3,4 year

olds

> to do this....

> Alec is going to be 11 in June.

>

> Ron

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/11/02 9:04:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

bunnytiner@... writes:

> Okay, I am very late on this one but this picture is all too familiar.

> Enrique, at fifteen, is finally starting, just starting, mind, to get some

> of this a tiny bit. I agree with those who have pointed out that if this is

> an AS kid of any variety, then expecting this maturity is probably expecting

> too much, strange though it sounds. One of Enrique's psychologists pointed

> out to me last summer that according to testing, Enrique was not yet at a

> developmental stage where he understood punishment. Usually kids understand

> a punishment around five or six; Enrique was fourteen. I believed the psych

> because that explanation made a LOT of sense.

>

> Salli

>

>

>

Thanks for the input Salli....

And these things are in the back of our heads....luckily for you, you are

able to get Enrique some sort of help. We still have the issue of bio-dad,

who denies any of Alec's problems, who sees Alec as an immature child only,

who has admittedly stated, " Alec isn't the son I would have wanted " , (how

friggin' sad is that?), yet brings on lawsuits to stop any of Alec's

treatments.

Whatever we do here at the home, is completely underminded by bio-dad by him

telling Alec there is nothing wrong with him.

Psychologically speaking, what we have is a biological father, who, as a

child was tormented by his own father, felt out of place and alienated from

his peers, (so much so that at 17 was hospitalized for not being able to

cope) and who now is living vicariously through his son, or trying to anyway.

Since his son has little to no atheletic prowess, more than likely won't be

a brain surgeon, I fear that down the road, Alec will be tossed aside. Some

of this behavior is already in the works. Last week, Alec had a choir

recital. Bio-dad, told Alec he wouldn't be able to go because " the boys " ,

his girlfriends kids, had karate that night.

Bio-dad refuses to look at his own issues. We here believe in looking at

oneself to better understand our own behaviors. Bio-dad thinks this is

" ridiculous " and very much " liberal minded. "

If Alec does poorly in school, bio-dad's reaction is, " I'm very disappointed

in you Alec. " This is pretty much for everything.

Yet, he does not want Alec " labeled " with anything. So much so, he refuses

to give consent for a school tutor.

Terry has read countless books, we have implemented ideas from these books

and continue to try and help Alec anyway we can.

In short, the adults in Alec's life are not on the same page. It's like

having a marriage where one person is trying to save money while the other is

always spending...it's two forces working against each other.

ron

[Guest guest]

> However, I can't

> > get out of my head that at 10 years old, by now he should be able to

> > understand that:

> > ...homework is to be done and done properly in order to succeed.

> > ...chores, though they are not fun, are a fact of life....picking up

ones

> > room, i.e., putting clothes in the hamper, picking up toys are facts of

> life.

> > ...The above should be able to be done without an hour long pouting,

foot

> > stomping session, where threats and/or mild punishment, (no t.v. etc.)

are

> > not needed to be enforced.

> > ...showing him an alternative means of accomplishing a task is not a

> personal

> > attack on his abilities or knowledge but a teaching mechanism to

> accomplish a

> > task more efficiently and completely therefore eliminating extra

> time....time

> > which can be used for personal pleasure....

Okay, I am very late on this one but this picture is all too familiar.

Enrique, at fifteen, is finally starting, just starting, mind, to get some

of this a tiny bit. I agree with those who have pointed out that if this is

an AS kid of any variety, then expecting this maturity is probably expecting

too much, strange though it sounds. One of Enrique's psychologists pointed

out to me last summer that according to testing, Enrique was not yet at a

developmental stage where he understood punishment. Usually kids understand

a punishment around five or six; Enrique was fourteen. I believed the psych

because that explanation made a LOT of sense.

Salli