Re: getting at the source...

[Guest guest]

> [snip] But I'm ultimately led to ask if getting to the source or

> cause of Afibs might not be a better solution. That is, if adrenalin

> is a major contributor to those nodes going off, then perhaps a

> psychopharmacologist knows of meds that reduce the incidence of

> adrenalin, or at least knows of mood stabilizers that won't get someone's

> adrenalin going in the first place. Has anyone tried this approach

> before, or know about it? It's worth a look at, I'd think...

>

>

>

Hi

I think most people here try that approach, I'm certainly a big fan of

eliminating the source of the problem rather than reducing a symptom. I

think the problem is that at least some of the source will be found in

our hearts. There is something about our hearts make up that predisposes

us to AF. (i.e. we might react to the same adrenalin rush in a

different way to someone with a 'normal' heart). I'm all for minimising

the triggers but you may find that the source of AF (or at least the

maintenance of AF) will be in the heart.

You need to figure out if any adrenalin rush is abnormal or if it's

your hearts reaction to it that's abnormal. If it's the latter then you

may end up trying to fix something that isn't broken and your heart may

still end up going into AF under other stimuli. Beta-blockers come

under the category of reducing the effects of adrenalin and there are

a couple of meds that are anticholinergic - reducing the effects on the

vagal side. Some people have found relief or completely eliminated there

AF by taking these meds (and there are many other families of meds that

some have success with). I suppose if you don't find a solution

in a selection of meds the process moves on to more invasive procedures.

The list of what can be wrong in or hearts is pretty long, electrolyte

imbalance, faulty ion channels, fibrosis to name just a few of the

things that might encourage AF but may exist at a subclinical level so

might not appear in any testing. Of course other things like thyroid

problems can be behind AF and I'm not suggesting the source is always

going to be found in the heart just that ablation might no be such a

crazy solution for some of us .

Or maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that ablation is not such a

bad idea because I'm running out of options. Though I still think

it's like turning an alarm clock off with a sledgehammer

--

D

[Guest guest]

<<maybe I'm just trying to convince myself that ablation is not such

a bad idea because I'm running out of options. Though I still think

it's like turning an alarm clock off with a sledgehammer >>

--

D

...................................................................

I hear ya on that one.

P

[Guest guest]

I post this periodically for new people, because they often find it helpfu.

There

is no such thing as THE source, something we all learn early on. All the best.

Kathleen, 63, chronic, toprol, digitek, coumadin, and living well.

-----------------------------------------------------

The problem with AF, as I see it while almost crying as I read the

many messages of frustration and confusion, is that it can have

so MANY causes. Everyone is right. Yes, electrolyte imbalances

can play havoc with all heart rhythms, and can certainly kick a

heart into AF. Yes, changes in thyroxine levels can trigger

tachycardia and AF. Yes, changes in the nervous system

(especially stress/exercise related increases in sympathetic

nerve activity) can trigger AF. Yes, the same changes in the

sympathetic nerves acting during exercise can have a very

different effect in different individuals and bring AF to a halt

(because we are all biologically so individual....) Yes, circulating

chemicals from food (MSG, dairy, chocolate, etc.) can alter heart

cell function via changes in blood chemistry. Yes, " mechanical "

things (cold drinks leading to change in thoracic and abdominal

temperatures; sharp bending, lying on the left side...) can trigger

all manner of heart abnormalities, including AF. Yes, cellular

abnormalities within the heart (the ectopic pacemaker cells

around the entry of the pulmonary veins that are often the targets

of ablation) can and do trigger AF. Yes, even slight atrial

enlargement, especially in older persons, can alter conduction

pathways in the atria and trigger AF. Yes, AF can be cyclical,

perhaps in synch with some long-term hormonal variation

(thyroxine, melatonin, serotonin, ACTH, who knows.....). And on

and on.

I could go on with this list, and I'm only hoping that especially the

new folks, the ones who are looking for THE cause, will do as so

many have already done, that is, systematically evaluate their

individual situations with respect to ALL of the above. They MAY

find triggers that are especially important for themselves, or

cycles unique to them, etc. But the reality is that many of us will

never know THE cause of our own AF, and will have to be content

with its management.

The increasing success with ablation, especially in the hands of

the best EP's, leads me to believe that many of these variables

are probably acting at the level of individual electrically active

atrial cells, especially those at the entry of the pulmonary veins.

In MANY people, but certainly not all, which explains why PVA's

don't do it for some people. I suppose I'm trying to capsulize the

intense frustration I see out there, and help folks understand that

this business of understanding and managing AF is a very, very

long term process, and all of us engaged in it need to keep up

daily hope (essential) while we simultaneously accept that we

may NEVER have individual " answers, " just management.

Good holidays to all, be AF free!!! Kathleen

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/30/2004 8:09:24 AM Pacific Standard Time,

douglasnov9@... writes:

<< perhaps a

psychopharmacologist knows of meds that reduce the incidence of

adrenalin, or at least knows of mood stabilizers that won't get someone's

adrenalin going in the first place. Has anyone tried this approach

before, or know about it? It's worth a look at, I'd think... >>

,

Beta blockers work on that principle, I think , because they block adrenaline

from the receptors in the heart. I have taken Tenormin, a beta blocker, for

14 years. It has helped to control my heart rate so that I do not feel

disturbing symptoms when I am in afib, but it did not prevent afib episodes

before I

eliminated dairy products from my diet. I continue to take Tenormin although

I am not sure how much of a role it is playing in my nearly continuous state

of sinus rhythm.

in sinus in Seattle