Re: So, what is the best diet?

[Guest guest]

Hi Harry,

I'm not sure either. I feel the benefits lie with the glycemic index and

the glycemic load. But it's funny though, the more I think about it, as a

child with diabetes, and that was 30 years ago, I was always told that if I

wanted extra to eat that I should eat more protein or vegetables like salad,

green beans, etc. This idea leans toward Dr. Bernstein's ideas. As an

adult I carried on this habit, but now I am using the glycemic index which

allows the carb wise breads and other things which Dr. Bernstein's diet does

not. Possibly the ideal diet is somewhere between the glycemic index and

Dr. Bernstein's diet. What do you think?

Ruth

So, what is the best diet?

Do you know?

Most people do not know the best diet for themselves to be on. Most of the

folks in the medical profession swear a person should be on a low fat diet.

Is that right?

Is high carb and low fat the way to go?

Is high protein and low fat the way to go?

Just what should we do, especially us as diabetics?

Do we really know?

Does Dr. Bernstein want to starve us to death, especially type1 diabetics?

Do we need to follow the ADA diet with all those carbs at each meal plus

supplement with more carbs at snack time?

I'm just scratching my head and wondering. How about you?

Is it true that only your doctor knows?

Well, I am just asking. I am hoping you can clue me in.

[Guest guest]

From my perspective I don't " follow " any diet except a balanced, healthy diet

that anyone would eat. It's not prescribed by my doctor nor any organization

such as the CDA. There are no meal plans anymore like there were when I was

younger and had set amounts and food groups to eat at each meal.

Also, the meals supplemented with snacks is not simply recommended but required

for those on older insulin regimens such as NPH and regular or Humalog. With

Lantus snacks should not be *needed* between meals according to the dietitian I

see occasionally, although snacks can be eaten if desired. But on NPH snacks are

really not optional: in order to not go low as NPH peaks between meals and

overnight, and this was even more true with regular. In this case unless they

like passing out from lows, a person really does need snacks and carbs.

What someone eats depends so much on their insulin regimen, activity level, and

lifestyle that one type of diet is not best for everyone with diabetes. It just

depends what works for them.

Jen

So, what is the best diet?

Do you know?

Most people do not know the best diet for themselves to be on. Most of the

folks in the medical profession swear a person should be on a low fat diet. Is

that right?

Is high carb and low fat the way to go?

Is high protein and low fat the way to go?

Just what should we do, especially us as diabetics?

Do we really know?

Does Dr. Bernstein want to starve us to death, especially type1 diabetics?

Do we need to follow the ADA diet with all those carbs at each meal plus

supplement with more carbs at snack time?

I'm just scratching my head and wondering. How about you?

Is it true that only your doctor knows?

Well, I am just asking. I am hoping you can clue me in.

[Guest guest]

I think we all have been led astray by the medical profession, the media,

fads and so forth. I am getting to the point where I would not be surprised

to discover most of the advice we have been given is just plain wrong. Can

you believe a doctor only recommending a total of 30 grams of carbs per day

for a diabetic?

How can a man come up with such a ridiculous figure? Is it for all

diabetics? Did it come just from his own experience or did it come from

research findings?

Do you know that most of the people I know in the health professions take

supplements? Why would they do that, when we have always been told we can

get all of the vitamins and minerals in a balanced diet, what ever that is?

Right now I am just plain baffled!

I am going to keep searching for the answers to some of these stupid

questions.

RE: So, what is the best diet?

> Hi Harry,

>

> I'm not sure either. I feel the benefits lie with the glycemic index and

> the glycemic load. But it's funny though, the more I think about it, as a

> child with diabetes, and that was 30 years ago, I was always told that if

> I

> wanted extra to eat that I should eat more protein or vegetables like

> salad,

> green beans, etc. This idea leans toward Dr. Bernstein's ideas. As an

> adult I carried on this habit, but now I am using the glycemic index which

> allows the carb wise breads and other things which Dr. Bernstein's diet

> does

> not. Possibly the ideal diet is somewhere between the glycemic index and

> Dr. Bernstein's diet. What do you think?

>

[Guest guest]

Great topic. I sure don't know, but there has to be a right way, I would think,

because sugar acts the same on all of us, or does it? Well I started out being

taught by educators from the ada. I learned a lot, having known nothing before,

but I felt that they were giving me way too many carbs, and I believe I learned

that from this here list, and other things I was reading. I have cut my carbs

down a lot, at least most of the time, and lost lots of weight, eating proteen

but not making a big deal of eating so much proteen. When I am not losing

weight or eating too many carbs, things don't feel right at all. I am using

diet and exercise, no insulin, but also testing my blood regularly, which gives

me that education I don't always want to know. the glucemic index sounds good

but I haven't brought myself to incorporate that in yet. And doctors, well, I

don't go by them as a rule. So am I doing hit-or-miss things or do I know, and

if I do know, who else can tell? Maybe we will debate this thing till the cows

come home.

Vicki

Rev 1:7

BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who

pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it

is to be. Amen.

Rev 1:8

" I am the Alpha and the Omega, " says the Lord God, " who is and who was and who

is to come, the Almighty. "

So, what is the best diet?

Do you know?

Most people do not know the best diet for themselves to be on. Most of the

folks in the medical profession swear a person should be on a low fat diet. Is

that right?

Is high carb and low fat the way to go?

Is high protein and low fat the way to go?

Just what should we do, especially us as diabetics?

Do we really know?

Does Dr. Bernstein want to starve us to death, especially type1 diabetics?

Do we need to follow the ADA diet with all those carbs at each meal plus

supplement with more carbs at snack time?

I'm just scratching my head and wondering. How about you?

Is it true that only your doctor knows?

Well, I am just asking. I am hoping you can clue me in.

[Guest guest]

Wow!, You have hit directly on the point, a healthy balanced diet that any

one would eat. Now what kind of a diet would that be? It sounds just like

the diets all the doctors I know have been recommending for years, but what

is it?

Re: So, what is the best diet?

> From my perspective I don't " follow " any diet except a balanced, healthy

> diet that anyone would eat. It's not prescribed by my doctor nor any

> organization such as the CDA. There are no meal plans anymore like there

> were when I was younger and had set amounts and food groups to eat at each

> meal.

>

> Also, the meals supplemented with snacks is not simply recommended but

> required for those on older insulin regimens such as NPH and regular or

> Humalog. With Lantus snacks should not be *needed* between meals according

> to the dietitian I see occasionally, although snacks can be eaten if

> desired. But on NPH snacks are really not optional: in order to not go low

> as NPH peaks between meals and overnight, and this was even more true with

> regular. In this case unless they like passing out from lows, a person

> really does need snacks and carbs.

>

> What someone eats depends so much on their insulin regimen, activity

> level, and lifestyle that one type of diet is not best for everyone with

> diabetes. It just depends what works for them.

>

> Jen

[Guest guest]

I don't think there is any one answer. A child will need a differnet amount

of carbohydrates than an adult. An active adult will need a different amount

of carbohydrates than an inactive one. Who is to say whether 30 or 100 or

200 carbohydrates a day is right? I don't think you can make blanket

statements. Publications such as the Canada Food Guide provide

guidelines--but they are just that, guidelines, not hard-and-fast rules.

Each individual needs to find what works for them, maybe in conjunction with

a doctor or nutritionist, or maybe by doing their own research.

I do not think there is any rule saying that diabetics cannot eat high

carbohydrate diets, high carbohydrate meaning the same number of carbs that

a non-diabetic would eat. This does not mean an unreasonable amount of

carbohydrates. If you are eating 500 carbohydrates a day but you are a

triathlete, maybe you need this many. If you eat that many carbohydrates and

sit behind a desk all day, you likely don't need that many.

In terms of diabetes, you can choose to control the food, the insulin, the

exercise, or more likely all three. For example, if you know how rapid

acting insulins work you know that they are not instantaneous and that

carbohydrates are absorbed much faster than the injected insulin is. So if

you eat a meal and inject insulin at the same time, you will get a rise in

blood sugar even if it later comes down. It is important to look at research

and best practices rather than advertising. Both Humalog and NovoRapid are

advertised as insulins that can be taken at the same time as or after food.

If you start off with a low blood sugar to begin with, maybe this is true.

But these insulins should really be taken ten or fifteen or even longer

before a meal to give them time to start working. But again, you have to

understand how food affects blood sugar. If you eat a high-fat meal then

perhaps you will take the insulin immediately before eating, because the fat

slows down those carbohydrates anyway. Lantus is advertised as a 24-hour

insulin, but in up to 50% of people does not truly last twenty-four hours.

It's easy to do research and simply ignore what you don't like. But if you

do research, acknowledge all of it, and then pick which method you will

follow, that's all you can do. I do not think there is one and only one type

of diet that works. Low cabrohydrate diets might work for some people. I

would wager that there are not many athletes on low carbohydrate diets, and

so it doesn't work for everyone. Higher carbohydrate diets can work, if you

are willing to time injections with meals properly and understand how

insulins work and their limitations. High carbohdyrate should, of course,

still be low in fast acting carbohydrates--but this is true of everyone.

Other factors such as lifestyle also come into play. I have seen people on

low carbohydrate diets, not diabetic, go to restaurants and order hamburgers

and sit and pick it all apart and eat only the patty and low carbohydrate

vegetables, and then sit and not touch the rest, while the rest of us eat

our meals and talk as we eat because we're not so concentrated on taking out

certain types of food. Obviously if this works for this person then that's

great, and no one should hold it against them, but for me personally I do

not want to sit in a restaurant and do this while listening to friends

around me talking, and then sit for half an hour and watch them all finish

meals. I would rather take insulin well before the meal arrives and take an

additional injection when the meal is over to make up for any

miscalculations in carbohydrates, and then (if I had a pump) take more

insulin over the next few hours and perhaps overnight as well to prevent a

high. It is just a personal choice, just as some people are comfortable

doing insulin injections in public while others prefer to find a private

area.

This is all just my opinion. What do you all think?

Jen

Re: So, what is the best diet?

Wow!, You have hit directly on the point, a healthy balanced diet that any

one would eat. Now what kind of a diet would that be? It sounds just like

the diets all the doctors I know have been recommending for years, but what

is it?

[Guest guest]

Well, I finally saw the dietitian today. And I waited six

weeks for this!

I was very disappointed. Harry, you can now exclaim, " I

told you so! "

This person knew far less than I did. Every question I had

for her drew a response of either I don't really know, or

you would think, or in the book here it says... And, I am

supposed to go away from that thinking what she said made

sense? Well, maybe it does, but I don't have confidence in

it because she said it, for sure!

Her prescription was basically the same as the dietitian by

phone gave me: 45 grams of carbs per meal with 15-gram

snacks three times a day, for a total of 180 grams of carbs.

I asked, what about weight loss as part of management and

she just thought that choosing low-fat would be the way to

go. Nothing concrete, nothing specific, nothing that she

would have sworn to, I bet. And, I bet my insurer is going

to pay several hundred dollars for these guesses.

I think I will have to just wing it. The truth probably

lies somewhere in the middle of the Bernstein prescription

and ADA line. It always seems that the truth is everything

in moderation...

SS

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Checked by AVG Free Edition.

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Date: 11/3/2006

[Guest guest]

, How disappointing-but not surprising, unfortunately. You will have to

experiment on yourself-try eating low carb, if not as low as Dr. Bernstein,

at least lower than what was recommended and do constant BGs to see how a

certain amount of grams of carbs affects you. For instance if you eat 30

grams at a meal and 2 hour later your BG is above 120, then you will know

that is too much.

RE: So, what is the best diet?

Well, I finally saw the dietitian today. And I waited six

weeks for this!

I was very disappointed. Harry, you can now exclaim, " I

told you so! "

This person knew far less than I did. Every question I had

for her drew a response of either I don't really know, or

you would think, or in the book here it says... And, I am

supposed to go away from that thinking what she said made

sense? Well, maybe it does, but I don't have confidence in

it because she said it, for sure!

Her prescription was basically the same as the dietitian by

phone gave me: 45 grams of carbs per meal with 15-gram

snacks three times a day, for a total of 180 grams of carbs.

I asked, what about weight loss as part of management and

she just thought that choosing low-fat would be the way to

go. Nothing concrete, nothing specific, nothing that she

would have sworn to, I bet. And, I bet my insurer is going

to pay several hundred dollars for these guesses.

I think I will have to just wing it. The truth probably

lies somewhere in the middle of the Bernstein prescription

and ADA line. It always seems that the truth is everything

in moderation...

SS

--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release

Date: 11/3/2006

[Guest guest]

,

You said, " I think I will have to just wing it. The truth probably

lies somewhere in the middle of the Bernstein prescription

and ADA line. It always seems that the truth is everything

in moderation... "

Dr. Bernstein says that all sources of food are comprised of only three

basic food groups; carbohydrates, protein and fat. If this is so, then

maybe there is a particular fit depending on what type of a person you are.

If you are a fat person, maybe you need one particular diet designed to help

you lose weight. If you are a type2 diabetic, maybe you need a particular

design or fit to reach a particular A1C level?

On the other hand if you are a type1, maybe there is a particular design

made to fit practically every juvenile onset diabetic?

If you have heart trouble or kidney trouble in addition to being a diabetic,

maybe you need another designed food pattern? If you are overweight, have

kidney problems or heart problems, then maybe you need another food pattern?

What if I have some kind of immune problems like glutin problems, would

another kind of diet be better for me?

As a diabetic, should I do every thing I can to avoid ketones? What do I do

if I have thyroid problems along with diabetes? What if I have PKU

problems?

What if I have an infection and diabetes? Does the diet really make a

difference?

Heck!, it seems that the more simple questions I ask, the more complicated

the diet for a diabetic becomes. Can one size fit all?

My dog is on a special diet W-D dog food designed to prevent the formation

of kidneystones.

I want a bag of Spand-X munchies designed to satisfy and yet not to raise bs

levels of any diabetic, and I am not talking about pork rinds.

Is a diet for a particular diabetic like buying a shoe? When you figure

what size and brand fits, maybe you should stick to just getting that one

all of the time. After all it is comfortable and often it comes in a

different color?

If we keep asking these stupid questions, maybe we will find an answer that

fits me alone. Choices, choices, choices really does make things

interesting. Have you ever noticed how when you go to a particular

restaurant, you tend to buy the same thing most of the time? Why? Because

most of the time, you know what you are going to get!

Well, I am going to keep looking until I find the fit for me.

RE: So, what is the best diet?

> Well, I finally saw the dietitian today. And I waited six

> weeks for this!

>

> I was very disappointed. Harry, you can now exclaim, " I

> told you so! "

>

> This person knew far less than I did. Every question I had

> for her drew a response of either I don't really know, or

> you would think, or in the book here it says... And, I am

> supposed to go away from that thinking what she said made

> sense? Well, maybe it does, but I don't have confidence in

> it because she said it, for sure!

>

> Her prescription was basically the same as the dietitian by

> phone gave me: 45 grams of carbs per meal with 15-gram

> snacks three times a day, for a total of 180 grams of carbs.

> I asked, what about weight loss as part of management and

> she just thought that choosing low-fat would be the way to

> go. Nothing concrete, nothing specific, nothing that she

> would have sworn to, I bet. And, I bet my insurer is going

> to pay several hundred dollars for these guesses.

>

> I think I will have to just wing it. The truth probably

> lies somewhere in the middle of the Bernstein prescription

> and ADA line. It always seems that the truth is everything

> in moderation...

>

> SS

>

>

> --

> No virus found in this outgoing message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.27/517 - Release

> Date: 11/3/2006

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Watch out!, Here it comes. Yes, you guessed it. I, Harry Bates, am

prepared to make a blanket statement. If you do not like a blanket

statement, then consider this a broad generalization. What I am about to

say can be considered to be a fact. If you find any research or other

findings to refute it, please post it here and soon. Are you ready? Well,

here it comes. It makes no difference whether you are a type1 diabetic or a

type2 diabetic or a diabetic on oral medications or you happen to be an

insulin dependent type2 diabetic. In fact it probably makes no difference

if you are completely healthy being no diabetic at all. I am willing to

state as a fact the more carbohydrates a person consumes, the higher that

person's A1C level will be. I am making this statement based on personal

experimental research data based on me, a type 2 insulin dependent diabetic.

I believe it holds true not only for me, but it is also true for others, a

diabetic of any kind or a completely healthy non-diabetic person. I believe

it is a fact. A person's A1C level is directly correlated with the

carbohydrate consumption of that person. The higher the carb consumption

the higher the A1C level will be. It makes no difference whether this

person uses oral medications, injects insulin or exercises. It is just a

fact. More carbs consumed means a higher bs level. I really do believe you

can take this as a fact, a generalization, a blanket statement. Now prove

me wrong. This is my challenge to you.

So, what is the best diet?

>

> " I don't think there is any one answer. A child will need a differnet

> amount of carbohydrates than an adult. An active adult will need a

> different amount of carbohydrates than an inactive one. Who is to say

> whether 30 or 100 or 200 carbohydrates a day is right? I don't think you

> can make blanket statements. Publications such as the Canada Food Guide

> provide guidelines--but they are just that, guidelines, not hard-and-fast

> rules. Each individual needs to find what works for them, maybe in

> conjunction with a doctor or nutritionist, or maybe by doing their own

> research. "

>

> Of course there is an answer, an easy one in fact. The real question is

> not how many carbs do they need but how many should they consume to

> control

> glucose levels. Testing post meal to see the effect of what kind of foods

> and in what amount have on glucose levels provides the answer. Then

> adjust

> accordingly to reach post meal glucose goals. The " how many carbs do I, or

> anyone, need is meaningless otherwise.

>

> A t2 must balance available insulin with carb intake and only testing says

> if it is happening. A t1 does the same and makes the balance by shooting

> enough insulin. The answer is the same for all, the carb intake numbers

> alone is the individual part.

>

> XB

> IC|XC

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem is that there are almost no studies on low carbohydrate diets or

about hwo they affect A1c or anything else. This is for all people, not just

diabetics. That's why a controversy exists in the first place, where's issues

such as lower A1c reducing the risk of complications has been well-studied.

Until the results of the DCCT were published in 1993 that statement, too, was a

controversy.

Jen

[Guest guest]

Hi Harry,

I agree with your blanket statement except in one point. That point is the

non-diabetic part because their body automatically produces insulin to

control levelss and you don't get prolonged spikes like we do.

Ruth

Re: So, what is the best diet?

Watch out!, Here it comes. Yes, you guessed it. I, Harry Bates, am

prepared to make a blanket statement. If you do not like a blanket

statement, then consider this a broad generalization. What I am about to

say can be considered to be a fact. If you find any research or other

findings to refute it, please post it here and soon. Are you ready? Well,

here it comes. It makes no difference whether you are a type1 diabetic or a

type2 diabetic or a diabetic on oral medications or you happen to be an

insulin dependent type2 diabetic. In fact it probably makes no difference

if you are completely healthy being no diabetic at all. I am willing to

state as a fact the more carbohydrates a person consumes, the higher that

person's A1C level will be. I am making this statement based on personal

experimental research data based on me, a type 2 insulin dependent diabetic.

I believe it holds true not only for me, but it is also true for others, a

diabetic of any kind or a completely healthy non-diabetic person. I believe

it is a fact. A person's A1C level is directly correlated with the

carbohydrate consumption of that person. The higher the carb consumption

the higher the A1C level will be. It makes no difference whether this

person uses oral medications, injects insulin or exercises. It is just a

fact. More carbs consumed means a higher bs level. I really do believe you

can take this as a fact, a generalization, a blanket statement. Now prove

me wrong. This is my challenge to you.

So, what is the best diet?

>

> " I don't think there is any one answer. A child will need a differnet

> amount of carbohydrates than an adult. An active adult will need a

> different amount of carbohydrates than an inactive one. Who is to say

> whether 30 or 100 or 200 carbohydrates a day is right? I don't think

> you can make blanket statements. Publications such as the Canada Food

> Guide provide guidelines--but they are just that, guidelines, not

> hard-and-fast rules. Each individual needs to find what works for

> them, maybe in conjunction with a doctor or nutritionist, or maybe by

> doing their own research. "

>

> Of course there is an answer, an easy one in fact. The real question

> is not how many carbs do they need but how many should they consume to

> control glucose levels. Testing post meal to see the effect of what

> kind of foods and in what amount have on glucose levels provides the

> answer. Then adjust accordingly to reach post meal glucose goals. The

> " how many carbs do I, or anyone, need is meaningless otherwise.

>

> A t2 must balance available insulin with carb intake and only testing

> says if it is happening. A t1 does the same and makes the balance by

> shooting enough insulin. The answer is the same for all, the carb

> intake numbers alone is the individual part.

>

> XB

> IC|XC

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

As far as I can see the non-diabetic is rapidly becoming a diabetic

according to the cultural norms today. People drink Coca Cola and Pepsi

like it is water or it is a substitute for water. It is now recommended to

drink fruit juice, since it is supposed to be good for you. However people

no longer drink 4 ounces of juice at breakfast, they drink a whole glass or

12-16 ounces of it at breakfast. Fifty years ago the juice glass at my

table was a whopping big 4 ounce glass. No let us not eat just Corn Flakes,

but let's eat Frosted Corn Flakes. How about Fruit Loops? Captain Crunch?

and of course lets top all meals off with a piece of cake or five or six

cookies along with all those biscuits, cornbread, mashed potatoes we already

had with supper. When you buy a hamburger, do you want biggie fries with

it? How about a milk sake or an ice cream? For a quick pick me upper snack

how about a Snicker or a Milky Way? You can do these things several times

per day if you like.

Did you notice that all these foods are carb packed treats?

If you keep packing your system with a lot of carbs each day, how long do

you think a person can get away without breaking their system, even though

they started out as a non-diabetic. Which of the following people do you

think has a better chance of becoming a diabetic, breaking an otherwise

normal body system? The person who consumes an average of 500 grams of

carbs per day? An average of 400 grams of carbs per day?

an average of 300 grams of carbs per day?

An average of 200 grams of carbs per day?

An average of 100 grams of carbs per day?

I have always been a sugar addict. I haven't calculated the average of

carbs consumed per day in the past yet, but I would imagine it was a high

daily average.

Yes, the normal person, the non-diabetic can get by for a long time before

the system can be broken, maybe 20-30 years, but sooner or later all of that

sugar consumed will cost him the price of diabetes.

I believe it is a fact. The more sugar you eat or drink, the more likely

you will become a diabetic. If you are already a diabetic, the more sugar

you eat or drink, the more likely you will have diabetic complications. I

know this is simplistic thinking, but is it wrong? I believe this simple

statement to be true.

As a diabetic, do you want to risk that this generalized statement is wrong

or false?

Fortunately, I know what the answer is, but alas, it is too late to prevent

me from having diabetes. Should I be urged to test the theory or hypothesis

by consuming high daily amounts of carbohydrates? Can I be guaranteed a

diabetic complication free life by eating more or less carbs per day?

I believe those with some sense of rationality know the answer.

So, what is the best diet?

>

>

>>

>> " I don't think there is any one answer. A child will need a differnet

>> amount of carbohydrates than an adult. An active adult will need a

>> different amount of carbohydrates than an inactive one. Who is to say

>> whether 30 or 100 or 200 carbohydrates a day is right? I don't think

>> you can make blanket statements. Publications such as the Canada Food

>> Guide provide guidelines--but they are just that, guidelines, not

>> hard-and-fast rules. Each individual needs to find what works for

>> them, maybe in conjunction with a doctor or nutritionist, or maybe by

>> doing their own research. "

>>

>> Of course there is an answer, an easy one in fact. The real question

>> is not how many carbs do they need but how many should they consume to

>> control glucose levels. Testing post meal to see the effect of what

>> kind of foods and in what amount have on glucose levels provides the

>> answer. Then adjust accordingly to reach post meal glucose goals. The

>> " how many carbs do I, or anyone, need is meaningless otherwise.

>>

>> A t2 must balance available insulin with carb intake and only testing

>> says if it is happening. A t1 does the same and makes the balance by

>> shooting enough insulin. The answer is the same for all, the carb

>> intake numbers alone is the individual part.

>>

>> XB

>> IC|XC

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

You might wish to consider this finding. It does make me think a second

time about how Dr. Bernstein came up with the magic number of 30 grams of

carbs for the type1 diabetic. For fat people it might be wise to consider

at what point does your body change over from using carbohydrates as an

energy source to using fat as an energy source. The answers are revealed

here.:

I found it while searching and surfing the internet. It is a web site for

alternative medicine found here:

http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/alternat.html

WHY LOW-CARB DIETS MUST BE HIGH-FAT, NOT HIGH-PROTEIN

WHY LOW-CARB DIETS MUST BE HIGH-FAT, NOT HIGH-PROTEIN

Fat is the most valuable food known to Man

PROFESSOR JOHN YUDKIN

Introduction

We now know that we should eat a diet that is low in carbohydrates. But a

plethora of books published in the last decade have been low-carb,

high-protein,

or low-carb, high-fat, or low-carb, high-good-fats, or all sorts of other

mixtures. In other words, the real confusion lies in what we should replace

the carbohydrates with: for example, should it be protein or fats? And if

fats, what sort of fats? This article, I hope, will answer the question and

put

any doubts out of your mind. In a nutshell, carbs should be replaced with

fats, and those fats should be mainly from animal sources.

Our bodies use carbs for only one purpose: to provide energy. When we cut

down on carbs, the energy our bodies need has to come from somewhere else.

There are only two choices: Protein or fat.

ATP: our bodies fuel

The fuel that our body cells use for energy is actually neither glucose nor

fat, it is a chemical called adenosine triphosphate (ATP). A typical human

cell

may contain nearly one billion molecules of ATP at any one moment, and those

may be used and re-supplied every three minutes. This huge demand for

ATP,

and our evolutionary history, has resulted in our bodies developing several

different pathways for its manufacture.

Oxygen and mitochondria

Living organisms have two means to produce the energy they need to live. The

first is fermentation, a primitive process that doesnt require the presence

of oxygen. This is the way that anaerobic (meaning without oxygen)

bacteria break down glucose to produce energy. Our body cells can use this

method.

The second aerobic (meaning using oxygen) method began after the Earth

began to cool down and its atmosphere became rich in oxygen. After this

event,

a new type of cell a eukaryotic cell evolved to use it. Today all

organisms more complex than bacteria use this property and all animal life

requires

oxygen to function. When we breathe in, our lungs are used to extract the

oxygen in air and pass it to the bloodstream for transport through the body.

And in our bodies, it is our body cells mitochondria little power plants

that produce most of the energy our bodies need that use this oxygen. The

process is called respiration. This process takes the basic fuel source

and oxidises it to produce ATP. The numbers of mitochondria in each cell

varies,

but as much as half of the total cell volume can be mitochondria. The

important point to note is that mitochondria are primarily designed to use

fats.

Which source of base material is best?

The question now, in this era of dietary plenty, is: Which source is

healthiest? There are three possible choices:

glucose, which comes mainly from carbohydrates, although protein can also be

utilised as a glucose source by the body if necessary;

Fats, both from the diet and from stored body fats;

Ketones which are derived from the metabolism of fats

Not all cells in our bodies use the same fuel.

Cells that can employ fatty acids are those that contain many mitochondria:

heart muscle cells, for example. These cells can make energy from fatty

acids,

glucose, and ketones, but given a choice, they much prefer to use fats.

Cells that cannot use fats must use glucose and/or ketones, and will shift

to preferentially use ketones. These cells also contain mitochondria.

But we also have some cells that contain few or no mitochondria. Examples of

cells with few mitochndria are white blood cells, testes and inner parts of

the kidneys; and cells which contain no mitochondria are red blood cells,

and the retina, lens and cornea in the eyes. These are entirely dependent on

glucose and must still be sustained by glucose.

This means that when we limit carb intake, the same energy sources must be

used, but a greater amount of energy must be derived from fatty acids and

the

ketones derived from fatty acids, and less energy from glucose.

Sources of glucose

To understand how a low carb diet works, we need to look at how we eat. This

process is one of eating, digestion, hunger and eating again. During our

evolution,

we also must have experienced long periods when food was in short supply and

we starved. This is a pattern our bodies are adapted to. And they have

developed

mechanisms to cope with a wide range of circumstances. Firstly, the human

body must contain adequate levels of energy to sustain the essential body

parts

that rely on glucose. The brain and central nervous system may be a

particular case as, although the brain represents only a small percentage of

body weight,

it uses between twenty and fifty percent of all the resting energy used by

the body.[ii] Fortunately the brain can also use ketone bodies derived from

fats. During fasting in humans, and when we are short of food, blood glucose

levels are maintained by the breakdown of glycogen in liver and muscle and

by the production of glucose primarily from the breakdown of muscle proteins

in a process called gluconeogenesis, which literally means glucose new

birth.[iii]

But we dont want to use lean muscle tissue in this way: it weakens us. We

want to get the glucose our bodies need from what we eat. Some of that will

come

from carbs, the rest from dietary proteins. Our bodies need a constant

supply of protein to sustain a healthy structure. This requires a fairly

minimal

amount of protein: about 1 to 1.5 grams per kilogram of lean body weight per

day is all that is necessary to preserve muscle mass.[iv] Any protein over

and above this amount can be used as a source of glucose.

Dietary proteins are converted to glucose at about fifty-eight percent

efficiency, so approximately 100g of protein can produce 58g of glucose via

gluconeogenesis.[v]

During prolonged fasting, glycerol released from the breakdown of

triglycerides in body fat may account for nearly twenty percent of

gluconeogenesis.[vi]

Body fats are stored as triglycerides, molecules that contain three fatty

acids combined with glycerol. The fatty acids are used directly as a fuel,

with

the glycerol stripped off. This is not wasted. As the glycerol is nearly ten

percent of triglyceride by weight and two molecules of glycerol combine to

form one molecule of glucose, this also supplies a source of glucose.

The case for getting energy from fat and ketones

When most people think of eating a low-carb diet, they tend to think of it

as being a protein-based one. This is false. All traditional carnivorous

diets,

whether eaten by animals or humans, are more fat than protein with a ratio

of about eighty percent of calories from fat and twenty percent of calories

from protein. Similarly, the main fuel produced by a modern low-carb diet

should also be fatty acids derived from dietary fat and body fat. We find in

practice that free fatty acids are higher in the bloodstream on a low-carb

diet compared with a conventional diet.[vii] [viii]

But fats also produce an important secondary fuel: ketone bodies. Ketones

were first discovered in the urine of diabetic patients in the mid-19th

century;

for almost fifty years thereafter, they were thought to be abnormal and

undesirable by-products of incomplete fat oxidation. In the early 20th

century,

however, they were recognised as normal circulating metabolites produced by

liver and readily utilised by body tissues. Ketones are an important

substitute

for glucose. During prolonged periods of starvation, fatty acids are made

from the breakdown of stored triglycerides in body fat.[ix] On a low-carb

diet,

the fatty acids are derived from dietary fat, or body fat if the diet does

not supply enough. Free fatty acids are converted to ketones by the liver.

They

then provide energy to all cells with mitochondria. Within a cell, ketones

are used to generate ATP. And where glucose needs the intervention of

bacteria,

ketones can be used directly. Reduction of carbohydrate intake stimulates

the synthesis of ketones from body fat.[x] This is one reason why reducing

carbs

is important. Another is that reducing carbohydrate and protein intake also

leads to a lower insulin level in the blood. This, in turn, reduces the

risks

associated with insulin resistance and the Metabolic Syndrome.

Ketone formation and a shift to using more fatty acids also reduces the

bodys

overall need for glucose. Even during high-energy demand from exercise, a

low-carb diet has what are called glucoprotective effects. What this all

means is that ketosis arising from a low-carb diet is capable of

accommodating

a wide range of metabolic demands to sustain body functions and health while

not using, and thus sparing, protein from lean muscle tissue. Ketones are

also the preferred energy source for highly active tissues such as heart and

muscle.[xi]

All this means that more glucose is available to the brain and other

essential glucose-dependent tissues.

The case against getting energy from protein

We know, then, that dietary fats can produce all the energy the body needs,

either directly as fatty acids or as ketone bodies. But, as there is still

some

debate about the health implications of using fats, why not play safe and

eat more protein?

There is one simple reason: While the body can use protein as an energy

source in an emergency, it is not at all healthy to use this method in the

long

term. All carbs are made up of just three elements: carbon, hydrogen and.

oxygen. All fats are also made of the same three elements. Proteins,

however,

also contain nitrogen and other elements. When proteins are used to provide

energy, these must be got rid of in some way. This is not only wasteful, it

can put a strain on the body, particularly on the liver and kidneys.

Excess intake of nitrogen leads in a short space of time to hyperammonaemia,

which is a build up of ammonia in the bloodstream. This is toxic to the

brain.

Many human cultures survive on a purely animal product diet, but only if it

is high in fat.[xii] [xiii] A lean meat diet, on the other hand cannot be

tolerated;

it leads to nausea in as little as three days, symptoms of starvation and

ketosis in a week to ten days, severe debilitation in twelve days and

possibly

death in just a few weeks. A high-fat diet, however, is completely healthy

for a lifetime.

Perhaps one of the best documented studies is that of the Arctic explorer,

Vilhjalmur Stefansson and a colleague.[xiv] They ate an animal meat diet for

more than a year to see whether such a diet could be healthy. Everything was

fine until they were asked to eat only lean meat. Dr McClelland, the lead

scientist, wrote:

Block quote start

At our request he began eating lean meat only, although he had previously

noted, in the North, that very lean meat sometimes produced digestive

disturbances.

On the third day nausea and diarrhea developed. When fat meat was added to

the diet, a full recovery was made in two days.

Block quote end

This was a clinical study, but Stefansson had already lived for nearly

twenty years on an all-meat diet with the Canadian Inuit. He and his team

suffered

no ill effects whatsoever.

Low-carb, high-fat diet and weight loss

There is just one other consideration: If you want to lose weight, the

actual material you want to rid your body of is fat. But to do that you have

to change

your body from using glucose as a fuel to using fat including your own

body fat. This is another reason not to use protein as a substitute for

carbs,

as protein is also converted to glucose.

If you think about it, Nature stores excess energy in our bodies as fat, not

as protein. It makes much more sense, therefore, to use what we are designed

by Nature to use. And that is fat.

So what levels of carbs, fats and proteins are required?

Clinical experience and studies into low-carb diets over the last century

suggest that everybody has a threshold level of dietary carbohydrate intake

where

the changeover from glucose-burning to fat and ketone burning takes place.

This varies between about sixty-five and 180 grams of carbs per day.[xv] If

your carb intake is below this threshold, then your body fat will be broken

down to generate ketones to supply your brain and other cells that would

normally

use glucose. In the early trials for the treatment of obesity, carb levels

were very much reduced to supply only about ten percent of calories. This

works

out at around fifty or sixty grams of carb for a 2,000 calorie daily intake.

For diabetics, the level may need to be lower to counteract insulin

resistance. Typical levels of carb intake for a type-2 diabetic are around

fifty grams

per day; the level should be lower still at about thirty grams a day for a

type-1 diabetic.

A Polish doctor, Jan Kwasniewski, who has used a low-carb diet to treat

patients with a wide range of medical conditions for over thirty years,

recommends

a ratio of one part carb to two parts protein to between three and four

parts fat, by weight. I see no reason to disagree with this. What it means

in practice

is that on a 2,000 calorie per day diet, we should get:

Block quote start

Ten to fifteen percent of calories from carbs

Twenty to thirty percent of calories from protein and

Sixty to seventy percent of calories from fats.

Block quote end

Or put another way, as it is difficult to work out percentages in this way,

fifty to seventy-five grams of carb and the rest from meat, fish, eggs,

cheese,

and their natural fats.

Potential for other diseases

The traditional Inuit (Eskimo) diet is a no-carb diet. It is notable that

the Inuit diet described by Drs Vilhjalmur Stefansson and Hugh Sinclair in

the

1950s is very similar in regard to percentages of fat/protein/carb intake to

the experimental low-carb diets used in recent obesity studies.[xvi] The

Inuit

diet was comprised of seal, whale, salmon, and a very limited amount of

berries and the partially digested contents of animals stomachs. On this

diet,

blood cholesterol levels were very high as were free fatty acids, but and

this in much more important triglycerides were low.[xvii] [xviii] It is

interesting

to note that the Inuit were of great interest to research scientists because

they had practically none of the diseases we suffer, including obesity,

coronary

heart disease and diabetes mellitus.[xix] [xx]

References

. Alberts B. Molecular Biology of the Cell, edn 4. New York: Garland

Science; 2002: p 93.

[ii]. Cahill GF. Survival in starvation. Am J Clin Nutr 1998; 68:12.

[iii]. Exton JH. Gluconeogenesis. Metabolism 1972; 21:945990.

[iv]. Volek JS, Sharman MJ, Love DM, et al. Body composition and hormonal

responses to a carbohydrate-restricted diet. Metabolism 2002; 51:864870

[v]. Krebs HA. The metabolic fate of amino acids. In Mammalian Protein

Metabolism, vol 1, Munro HN, JB, eds. New York: Academic Press,

1964:164

[vi]. Vazquez JA, Kazi U. Lipolysis and gluconeogenesis from glycerol during

weight reduction with very low calorie diets. Metabolism 1994; 43:12931299.

[vii]. Phinney SD, Bistrian BR, Wolfe RR, Blackburn GL. The human metabolic

response to chronic ketosis without caloric restriction: physical and

biochemical

adaptation. Metabolism 1983; 32:757768.

[viii]. Bisshop PH, Arias AM, Ackermans MT, et al. The effects of

carbohydrate variation in isocaloric diets on glycogenolysis and

gluconeogenesis in healthy

men. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000; 85:19631967.

[ix]. Cahill GF Jr. Starvation in man. N Engl J Med 1970; 19:668675.

[x]. Klein S, Wolfe RR. Carbohydrate restriction regulates the adaptive

response to fasting. Am J Physiol 1992; 262:E631E636.

[xi]. Neely JR, HE. Relationship between carbohydrate and lipid

metabolism and the energy balance of heart muscle. Annu Rev Physiol 1974;

36:413459.

[xii]. Speth, D. and A. Spielmann 1982 Energy source, protein

metabolism, and hunter-gatherer subsistence strategies. Journal of

Anthropological

Archaeology 2:1-31.

[xiii]. Noli & Avery. Protein poisoning and Coastal Subsistence. J Archaeol

Sci. 1988; 15:395-401

[xiv]. McClelland, et al. Clinical Calorimetry: XLV, XLVI, XLVII. Prolonged

Meat Diets...... J Biol Chem 1930-31; 87:651, 87:669, 93:419

[xv]. Klein S, Wolfe RR. Op cit.

[xvi]. Stefansson V. The Fat of the Land. Macmillan Press, New York, 1957.;

Sinclair HM: The diet of Canadian Indians and Eskimos. Proc Nutr Soc 1952,

12:6982.

[xvii]. Bang HO, Dyerberg J, Nielsen AB: Plasma lipid and lipoprotein

pattern in Greenlandic West-Coast Eskimos. Lancet 1971; I:11431146.

[xviii]. Feldman SA, Ho KJ, LA, et al. Lipid and cholesterol

metabolism in Alaskan arctic Eskimos. Arch Pathol 1972; 94:4258.

[xix]. Bjerregaard P, Dyerberg J: Mortality from ischaemic heart disease and

cerebrovascular disease in Greenland. Int J Epidem 1988, 17:514519.

[xx]. Sagild U, Littauer J, Jespersen CS, Andersen S: Epidemiological

studies in Greenland 19621964. I. Diabetes mellitus in Eskimos. Acta Med

Scand 1966,

179:2939.

Last updated 11 June 2005

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Flight Archery

Re: So, what is the best diet?

> The problem is that there are almost no studies on low carbohydrate diets

> or about hwo they affect A1c or anything else. This is for all people, not

> just diabetics. That's why a controversy exists in the first place,

> where's issues such as lower A1c reducing the risk of complications has

> been well-studied. Until the results of the DCCT were published in 1993

> that statement, too, was a controversy.

>

> Jen

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Harry,

What you said in your post is true and I don't deny it, but I was referring

to a non- diabetic who does not abuse his/her body. Along with what you

said goes the lifestyle that many people have put themselves in. I also can

tell you this and please don't take offense, but the American food choices

are poor compared to choices you can make when you go to a restaurant. When

I went on my honeymoon to Nashville 4 years ago, I was very hard pressed to

find salads or stir fries in restaurants. They were all very heavily carb

loaded. In Canada almost all restaurants offer salads and stir fries

amongst your food choices. This does not mean though we are perfect. We in

Canada also make the big mistake of huge portions and we consume them. Our

lives are getting to busy and too many people today eat out instead of

cooking a home cooked meal. If you want to watch a real thought provoking

documentary, then watch Super Size Me. It'll leave you thinking.

Ruth

Re: So, what is the best diet?

As far as I can see the non-diabetic is rapidly becoming a diabetic

according to the cultural norms today. People drink Coca Cola and Pepsi

like it is water or it is a substitute for water. It is now recommended to

drink fruit juice, since it is supposed to be good for you. However people

no longer drink 4 ounces of juice at breakfast, they drink a whole glass or

12-16 ounces of it at breakfast. Fifty years ago the juice glass at my

table was a whopping big 4 ounce glass. No let us not eat just Corn Flakes,

but let's eat Frosted Corn Flakes. How about Fruit Loops? Captain Crunch?

and of course lets top all meals off with a piece of cake or five or six

cookies along with all those biscuits, cornbread, mashed potatoes we already

had with supper. When you buy a hamburger, do you want biggie fries with

it? How about a milk sake or an ice cream? For a quick pick me upper snack

how about a Snicker or a Milky Way? You can do these things several times

per day if you like.

Did you notice that all these foods are carb packed treats?

If you keep packing your system with a lot of carbs each day, how long do

you think a person can get away without breaking their system, even though

they started out as a non-diabetic. Which of the following people do you

think has a better chance of becoming a diabetic, breaking an otherwise

normal body system? The person who consumes an average of 500 grams of

carbs per day? An average of 400 grams of carbs per day?

an average of 300 grams of carbs per day?

An average of 200 grams of carbs per day?

An average of 100 grams of carbs per day?

I have always been a sugar addict. I haven't calculated the average of

carbs consumed per day in the past yet, but I would imagine it was a high

daily average.

Yes, the normal person, the non-diabetic can get by for a long time before

the system can be broken, maybe 20-30 years, but sooner or later all of that

sugar consumed will cost him the price of diabetes.

I believe it is a fact. The more sugar you eat or drink, the more likely

you will become a diabetic. If you are already a diabetic, the more sugar

you eat or drink, the more likely you will have diabetic complications. I

know this is simplistic thinking, but is it wrong? I believe this simple

statement to be true.

As a diabetic, do you want to risk that this generalized statement is wrong

or false?

Fortunately, I know what the answer is, but alas, it is too late to prevent

me from having diabetes. Should I be urged to test the theory or hypothesis

by consuming high daily amounts of carbohydrates? Can I be guaranteed a

diabetic complication free life by eating more or less carbs per day?

I believe those with some sense of rationality know the answer.

So, what is the best diet?

>

>

>>

>> " I don't think there is any one answer. A child will need a differnet

>> amount of carbohydrates than an adult. An active adult will need a

>> different amount of carbohydrates than an inactive one. Who is to say

>> whether 30 or 100 or 200 carbohydrates a day is right? I don't think

>> you can make blanket statements. Publications such as the Canada Food

>> Guide provide guidelines--but they are just that, guidelines, not

>> hard-and-fast rules. Each individual needs to find what works for

>> them, maybe in conjunction with a doctor or nutritionist, or maybe by

>> doing their own research. "

>>

>> Of course there is an answer, an easy one in fact. The real question

>> is not how many carbs do they need but how many should they consume to

>> control glucose levels. Testing post meal to see the effect of what

>> kind of foods and in what amount have on glucose levels provides the

>> answer. Then adjust accordingly to reach post meal glucose goals. The

>> " how many carbs do I, or anyone, need is meaningless otherwise.

>>

>> A t2 must balance available insulin with carb intake and only testing

>> says if it is happening. A t1 does the same and makes the balance by

>> shooting enough insulin. The answer is the same for all, the carb

>> intake numbers alone is the individual part.

>>

>> XB

>> IC|XC

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

These days I rarely take offense at what anyone says. I am consoled by the

fact that what we know today will probably be outdated and untrue tomorrow.

I do believe in the freedom of expression, and I hope it lives on.

RE: So, what is the best diet?

> Hi Harry,

>

> What you said in your post is true and I don't deny it, but I was

> referring

> to a non- diabetic who does not abuse his/her body. Along with what you

> said goes the lifestyle that many people have put themselves in. I also

> can

> tell you this and please don't take offense, but the American food choices

> are poor compared to choices you can make when you go to a restaurant.

> When

> I went on my honeymoon to Nashville 4 years ago, I was very hard pressed

> to

> find salads or stir fries in restaurants. They were all very heavily carb

> loaded. In Canada almost all restaurants offer salads and stir fries

> amongst your food choices. This does not mean though we are perfect. We

> in

> Canada also make the big mistake of huge portions and we consume them.

> Our

> lives are getting to busy and too many people today eat out instead of

> cooking a home cooked meal. If you want to watch a real thought provoking

> documentary, then watch Super Size Me. It'll leave you thinking.

>

> Ruth

>