Fine-tuning Armour

June 5, 2004

In a message dated 6/5/2004 5:55:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

myrazon2000@... writes:

> Now I'm going to split the

> dose in

> 2 grains in the morning and 1¼ like 3-pm or so

This is the way I do it. 2 grains in the morning and 1 1/2 in the afternoon.

It's working pretty well for me. I feel good all day usually...and don't

have to nap anymore...and even in the morning I am fairly bright-eyed and alert.

Cindi

June 5, 2004

In a message dated 6/5/2004 5:55:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,

myrazon2000@... writes:

>

> Do you think this is a better option

I think if that works for you...it is. So far, I'm doing fine with just the

Armour.

Cindi

June 5, 2004

In a message dated 6/5/2004 7:36:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,

myrazon2000@... writes:

> Actually, I'm

> not used to this style of forum. Do you answer more people in one

> message?

However it feels best to you. I try to copy the part of the message I'm

answering because we get so many posts sometimes that folks can forget what the

original post said....or at least I do.

Cindi

June 5, 2004

> In a message dated 6/4/2004 12:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> myrazon2000@y... writes:

>

> > Now, I use 3¼ grain Armour for 4 months and I'm slowly

recovering

> > from many ailments.

>

> Are you splitting your dose?

> Cindi

>

June 5, 2004

Hi Janie,

Thank you so much for your respond. Gee. I'm getting so many golden

answers here, I just don't know to whom respond first! Actually, I'm

not used to this style of forum. Do you answer more people in one

message? And how do I get this blue colour if I would like to copy

something you wrote?

Anyway, I'm open for guidance.....

Well, my Ferritin went up to 34!!! (ranges: 13 - 140). This was the

testresult after two months on 3¼ grains of Armour. My TSH was

0.006. In Holland (Europe) they have different references for Ft4

and Ft3. My Ft3: 4.60 (ranges: 2.8 - 6.5). My Ft4: 18 (ranges: 10 -

24). On synthoid, I used to have TSH 1.0 and feel very sick. If the

TSH dropped I would get very hyper. I was never able to get the Ft4

and Ft3 even in midrange. They were always low.

But I think I should have another labwork though, since it was two

months ago and I'm in the stage of getting adjusted to my new meds.

You know what is interesting? I was not able to get my Ferritine

level up by an IUD alone. (Mirena, levongestrel/progesterone). (Is

this the same brand name in the States?). I had heavy bleeding for

several years. Once, when I was obviously very hypo with heavy

period my Ferritine was < 2. Ferritine 12 was as far as it could

get. Once I had 20 when I got tons of Iron meds. Now it is getting

up by itself.

Yeahh, my age, in july I'll be 40, as a matter of fact.....

But you could be right with my hormonal imbalance. I usually feel

very good during my 'fertile' days. I wonder which hormone I could

take to remain in that state .........

I have always suspected estrogen. Could that be it? How can one

suppress estrogen? Can to much estrogen be a hypo-sign as well?

I do have swollen and painful B's as well. Especially when I get a

low dose of Armour.

By the way, you seem to know a lot!

Kim.

> Hi there Kim!! First, have you ever fixed that low Ferritin? A low

> Ferritin can cause so many additional problems, including palps,

> achiness, hair loss, depression, and other issues. You mentioned

two

> of those, and it could be your problem.......

>

> That jitteriness you mention---can you get labs done for your free

> T3 and free T4 and see where you are??

>

> Also, when you say lowering your dose you get the PMS and

> depression, do you mean just lowering it to 3 grains??

>

> And I am so glad others have mentioned multi-dosing. Hopefully you

> are not taking all of it in the morning, but breaking it up to at

> least twice a day?? I currently take 2 grains in the morning, and

> one grain in the early to mid afternoon.

>

> And finally---you didn't mention your age. Are you possibly peri-

> meno?? Is it possible you might have a bit of estrogen dominance--

> which is when the estrogen is too high as compared to your

> progesterone levels?? It can also cause depression, hypoglycemic

> signs, and other issues.

>

> Janie in Colorado USA )

>

> > First introduce myself a little bit.... I live in The

Netherlands.

> I

> > have hypo-Graves after RAI, and was in hypohel for 7 years on

> > synthetic t4.

> > (I almost died, I had ferritine < 2 !!!).

> >

> > Now, I use 3¼ grain Armour for 4 months and I'm slowly

recovering

> > from many ailments. My TSH was 0.006 after two months on this

dose.

> > I feel so much better that I NEVER EVER want to go back on

> > synthroid.

>

> > At the moment I feel easily edgy, hypoglycemic, which is for me

a

> > hypersign. I also have a sore painful tong and other B12

problems,

> > despite monthly B12 injections. When I lower my dose, even in

> > taking the ¼ grain every other day, I get PMS, cramps and

> > depression. I don't think I can be more on the edge of fine-

> tuning.

June 5, 2004

> > > Now, I use 3¼ grain Armour for 4 months and I'm slowly

recovering

> > > from many ailments.

> >

> > Are you splitting your dose?

> > Cindi

> >

>

> Oh, good question Cindi! Yes, if you are taking it all in one lump,

> you could be feeling the T3 big time. I am so glad you pointed out

the

> hypoglycemia thing Kim. I got this at 1 1/2 grains and edgy too.

Boy,

> I missed the signs I guess. I have felt like that every once in a

> while in the past, so didn't really think anything of it - DUH! I

> probably felt like that when the Hashi's was on the mild hyper

swing.

> Then stupid me, I upped my dose even more to 1 3/4 and then 2

grains,

> which threw me into a tizzy and not allowing my body time to

adjust to

> the new dose. Anyway, I backed down to 1 1/4 grain and added some

T4

> to my mix in hopes of stabalizing and getting the T3 down. It

worked,

> and I don't know if I am going to stay on the T4 forever, but for

> right now I am using it (just 25 mcg added to the 1 1/4 grain).

>

Ohh thank you , for sharing your symptoms also. It really

helps so much to recognize these ailments in others. And now I'm

having hope again that I might improve more. I'm also v. tired of

trying fixing it all!!! (After so many years, still missing the

signs......).

For some reason, I think I'm hyper on T3 and hypo on T4, although my

bloodwork doesn't show that, yet. I think I'm going to add a little

levothyroxine back!

Kim.

June 5, 2004

Hi Sheila,

I'm so v. v. happy with your respond. Now I'm having hope again that

I can resolve these issues. I'm going to get silicia SOMEWHERE, and

swallow the whole bottle at once .....

Right there, where the nail starts groing, is it kind of hurting.

Like if I have hit it with a hammer.

My hair is in a very good condition, but probably loosing a little

bit too much.

> " However, with the addition of 25 mcgs T4 I was absolutely fine.

This is something I still don't understand. It did not work for me

when I was taking it by itself, but that tiny amount is working for

me with Armour. Remember Armour T4 is less potent than the synthetic

so you do not need to drop back on the Armour). I ended up in ER

when I tried adding Cynomel. That was a bad

experience " <

Gee, that is quite an experience. But why did you add Cynomel? That

would bring the T4/T3 ratio even more out of balance?

I didn't know by the way, that the T4 in Armour is less potent than

the synthetic. So, it is not only lower in amount, but also lower in

potency? Ahhh, now I'm getting the picture. I'm definitely going to

add levothyroxine! You write that you have added 25 mcgs T4,... to

how much Armour?

The strange thing is that I'm having hyper- and hypo signs. Hypo

like swollen and painful B's, PMS, depression, Hyper like edgy and

hypoglycemic, being hungry also. And ohh ja, I can't lose waight!! I

need to lose appr. 40 pounds, yet, with me being on Atkins or just

name it, low carb anyway, nothing works. While, when I took 3 and a

half grain Armour I lost 10 pounds in one week! So, this is a weird

thing. I hope now than I can increase my dose with T4, without

getting to hyper. I think I need more to feel better.

Just another question, I hope you don't mind....

How can I change this message once it is posted? Since English is

not my native language and there is always something I can improve.

ThanX again Sheila,

Luv - Kim.

June 5, 2004

Hoi ,

> " It sounds more to me like more hypo instead of hyper. The sore

tongue, the ongoing B12 problem, which should only take a few weeks

to resolve, if you are NOT still hypo " <

That's interesting. Do you think the B12 symptoms are due to being

Hypo? I have always thought this myself, but people were telling me

it is due to the auto-immune factors which are also the cause of our

troubled thyroids. I also thought that it is possible to get B12

problems from hyper as well. I also have a buddha-belly and low

stomac-acid, I don't digest properly anymore, the last month it got

worse and worse.

But if you're right, I'm getting more hope than ever!!! I actually

think I'm hypo too, since I can't lose weight either, despite

extreme low-carb dieting. When I increased with a half grain Armour,

I lost 10 pounds in two weeks! But the other side of that same coin

was that I also felt very hyper, out of balance and almost....

eehhh ..... very easily aggrivated. Also my heartbeat got up to 92

per minit. My Graves-eyes have not buldged out, I'm so happy for

that, but I feel a pressure around my eyes when I'm hyper.

> " I tested for B12, but it wasn't the B12, it was the folic acid.

However, it is now corrected, as of me looking at my red blood

counts yesterday, after faithfully taking the folic acid AND B12 and

other B's, etc....interpreted, meaning.....it scared the heck out of

me, so much so, that I got to work on that one fast! " <

In my case Folic acid is high normal. But I'm not understanding why

you were scared, (probably due to me not knowing all English

expressions, or getting the point. Is it that your red blood counts

were low due to being hypo?).

Kim.

June 5, 2004

Hi Sally,

Did you drop your dose because you were feeling hyper due to the

adrenal support? Have you had an lab work done? I'm just wondering

what your Free T3 and and Free T4 look like. I would say that you

are having muscle pain because you are not getting enough T3. I know

that muscle pain is one of the many symptoms of hypothyroidism. T4,

as far as labs go, isn't very informative because it shows what your

body has already used up. Same with T3. Having your Free T3 and

Free T4 is very beneficially in helping determine what is going on as

far as what is free and available and ready to be used up by your

body. Its the T3 in your body that helps your body function at the

cellular level. I don't think your poor body is getting enough T3,

hence the muscle pain.

I haven't been reading the posts very diligently lately, so maybe

you've already posted your lab work. Sorry if I'm a bit behind on

what has been going on here!

Zina

> Hi Zina, I am up to 2 and a half now. When I started

> on Cortef in March I had to drop down to 90mg. I guess

> I am confused about the T4. And why does so many

> people have the muscle pain? Thanks, Sally

June 5, 2004

Hi Cris,

Sounds like you are having a good start with your Armour. Keep in

mind that you may start to feel good at one grain, but eventually you

may start to feel bad again because the one grain may not be enough

for you. I'd say after 3 weeks, see if you can increase your dose by

1/4 of a grain, so you don't start to go down hill again. And then

after another 3 weeks, increase again. Your TSH at 3.24 was not

normal by a long shot. Most people feel their best when their TSH is

below 1. Mine is .001 and I'm feeling wonderful and I'm not hyper in

the least bit! I'm taking 3 1/4 grains right now. Dr. Derry

indicates that people with hypothyroidism don't start to feel relief

from their symptoms until they are on AT LEAST 3 grains of Armour. I

dose three times per day and I take all my doses sublingually. That

way, I'm getting the thyroid hormones all throughout the day and by

taking it sublingually, I'm getting darn near the entire dose, since

it goes directly into my bloodstream through the capillaries in my

gums.

Is your doctor testing your Free T3 and Free T4? Those are the best

tests to have done. The TSH is good for diagnosing, but it doesn't

really help after that and the T3 and T4 uptakes just show what has

already been used up by your body. The Frees show what is free and

available for your body to use. If you are having muscle pain, its

most likely because you aren't getting enough T3. T3 is what makes

your body function at the cellular level. If you have your Free T3

and Free T4 tested, you want to try to get these numbers to the tops

of their ranges. My Free T3 is over the top of its range and my Free

T4 is close to the top of its range. Just a few tidbits of info. I

haven't been reading the postings very regularly, so I imagine you've

already been informed about all this.

Zina

> today is my 8th day taking it - and I'm taking 30 mg when I wake

up, and then another 30 mg (when I remember to take it) - around

noon.

> the chart says that my 50 mcg of synthroid is equal to 30 mg of

armour - so according to that chart, I'm taking 2X as much. my dr

thought I should be taking 50 mg of armour - but since they come in

30's she gave me 60mg. so - I'm taking a total of 1 grain at this

point.

>

> I'm going to push my 2nd dose up to late morning - the dr. just

said take a 2nd dose later in the day. and she does have patiets on

doses 3X/day. so at the very least, I think she'll give me that 3rd

dose - after my next apt. with her. Hopefully, before the bloodwork

comes back even.

>

> OH!! I found where I wrote down my bloodwork from my last tests -

eon's ago. and I only had a TSH level!!! (and my cholesterol) - my

TSH was 3.24 out of their 'accurate' guideline of normal is

between .5 and 5.0 - (I think that's what my writing says - I know

for sure they still use the 5.0 for the top - I argued with them

about that one!!

>

> Cris

> Re: Fine-Tuning Armour

June 6, 2004

Thank you!

This puts it all in perspective for me!

I've learned bits and pieces from all of the posts.

that TSH I gave was from my & %$@*^# doctor that I finally got rid of. He refused

to address ANY of my issues.

I just started with a new doctor a week ago - that's when I started the armour.

She plans on doing bloodwork - June 30th. She said she runs anti-bodies and the

free T's. Plus - she'll run some other things. I mentioned the ferriton to her

and she said she can run that. I'll mention it again when I go in. There are

some others I'd like her to run - but I don't want her to think I " m loony right

off the top!! LOL She does seem very good though.

She said she often treats in 3 doses. so I'm betting the next thing she'll do is

add a 3rd dose. I don't know if she'll be willing to do that on my apt. - before

she sees the bloodwork or not. I doubt it. I figure, I'll take my morning dose

the day before, and nothing after that, to get a more accurate blood count. I

just hope she's willing to treat to the optimum numbers. That would truly be a

miracle and I'd be in heaven!

I was on synthroid for years before I started the armour. That TSH number was me

on synthroid....That doctor absolutely refused to treat with anything BUT

synthroid. not even another synthetic! I discussed it several times with him.

once, was when the company that makes synthroid was in hot water with the FDA

for not bothering to get re-approved. He didn't believe me that they did that!!

I knew then, that he really really wasn't a very good doctor. Besides other

hints - like him telling me right out that I was a hypochondriac - I am the

farthest thing from one!!! My complaints were all legitimate that should have

been able to be addressed. I was determined to prove him wrong - and I did on

some - but then finally found a good doctor! I hope!! Guess time will tell

there! I've heard excellent things about my new one!

Cris

Re: Fine-Tuning Armour