Re: an interesting quote about low body temps from Dr Lowe

[Guest guest]

Wow, this is interesting

How much estrogen are you taking now?

> >

> > Hi Venizia,

> >

> > I can't say that my experience will apply to others, but I'd been taking

100mcg of Cytomel for a year with RT3 long gone, and since April Hypo symptoms

have returned. I was also having a high pulse, despite all other symptoms being

Hypo. May 1st I had an FT3 of 4.7 (2-3.7 range), and Val felt with this range on

Cytomel only I probably needed to aim for a mid 5 range (after getting my sodium

up a bit).

> >

> > I increased Cytomel to 125mcg on 6/8 and the high pulse has disappeared!

Unfortunately, my Hypo symptoms haven't yet, so will be increasing Cytomel some

more shortly.

> >

> > Liz

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi Venezia,

I'm not sure where the confusion arose; I just read Val's post that Barne's used Oral temps, and that didn't ring right to me, so I was double checking with her.

My Doc likes to have charted Basal Body temps from me to consider when making any requested adjustments to my Cytomel rx - under the arm for ten minutes as soon as I wake up, while lying still with arms at side, with as little movement as possible before and during temp taking. Some say to average 3 to 5 days of underarm temps, some say ten days. I can't find anything about refering to averaging - just that felt anything below or equal to 97.8 was Hypo and anything above was Hyper. (I've been bad about charting both basal and 3xdaily Rind for awhile now, and making adjustments to HC and thyroid by "feel" if indications were clear enough, but started basal charting on 6/8 with the Cytomel increase. Have been trying to get started charting 3xdaily Rind again, but brain has been too muddy to remember so far)

I don't know anything about Basal thermometers, LOL! My understanding is that they are supposed to be more "sensitive", and I think they have .1increments instead of .2 increments like a standard oral therm, and I know there often used when women are trying to get pregnant. They ALSO come in standard and digital.

My therm is a standard glass non-mercury thermomter, and I use it for both basal and oral temps ... but I clean it before putting it in my mouth :0). As long as your not using a digital therm for oral 3xdaily Rind charting, I would think that a basal them is fine.

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: venizia1948

Hi, not Val but I hope you don't mind.I take my temps orally WITH a basal thermometer. Is this perhaps where the confusion is?Venizia>> Hi Val,> > Everything I've ever read, or googled & read, about Broda says that used BASAL not oral temps, including this educational packet available for order at brodabarnes.org: http://www.brodabarnes.org/educational_packets.htm> > Could you have misheard when listening to the seminar tape?> > I've always understood that was Basal Body Temp and Rind was 3xday Oral Temp ...> > Liz> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > " Yet, through all these better years for me, my underarm basal body temperature has remained between 96.7 and 97.2 degrees F. (Dr. defined the normal basal temperature as 97.8-to-98.2 degrees F.)"> > BUT we are talkign the SAME temperature here! Broda used ORAL temps. Underarm temps you always add ONE degree to as compared with oral temps. iN my tapes I have of a Broda seminar, he used ORAL. I have heard several peopel ove rthe years say he used underarm. that for most peopel wiould put them hyper.

..

[Guest guest]

No Venezia,

I'm just saying that increasing Cytomel lowered MY pulse! It might be a bad idea for others, but I felt I should at least make others aware of what happened to me ...

Liz

Re: an interesting quote about low body temps from Dr Lowe

Hi Liz,So you are saying that if I increase I may have a lower pulse. Boy, I am really scared to go up higher than I was which was 85mcg - 25mcg + 5mcg added 2 times a day. When my pules today is 111. Actually I am taking 25mcg 3x a day and adding 5mcg to that 2 times a day. My dilema is my food and med sensitivities - not a typical case am I.Venizia

..

[Guest guest]

hmmm I am using a digital basal therm. So what problems is THAT causing me?

Not as accurate? I have not seen a glass non mercury therm around here in

Wisconsin. Maybe I need to look again. I've had this one for about 6 mo.

Venizia

> >

> > Hi Val,

> >

> > Everything I've ever read, or googled & read, about Broda says that

used BASAL not oral temps, including this educational packet available

for order at brodabarnes.org: http://www.brodabarnes.org/educational_packets.htm

> >

> > Could you have misheard when listening to the seminar tape?

> >

> > I've always understood that was Basal Body Temp and Rind was 3xday

Oral Temp ...

> >

> > Liz

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From:

>

> > " Yet, through all these better years for me, my underarm basal body

temperature has remained between 96.7 and 97.2 degrees F. (Dr. defined

the normal basal temperature as 97.8-to-98.2 degrees F.) "

> >

> > BUT we are talkign the SAME temperature here! Broda used ORAL

temps. Underarm temps you always add ONE degree to as compared with oral temps.

iN my tapes I have of a Broda seminar, he used ORAL. I have heard several

peopel ove rthe years say he used underarm. that for most peopel wiould put them

hyper.

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Hi wliz,

I take bio-id hormones, except for DHEA. I had been taking 25mg DHEA (not for everyone!), 300mg Progesterone, 2.25mg Tri-Est, and 2mg Testosterone. I switched the Tri-Est and Testosterone from capsules/troches respectively to a combined cream last Fall because the cost difference was substantial.

In March, when I started getting Hypo, I began getting spacey about applying the cream daily (more so than the once weekly off day to let the recepters reboot), and then in April I realized I felt a teeny bit better when I didn't apply so I essentially went to once weekly application. That was pretty stupid, and hard on my adrenals I'm sure; talk about hormone spikes! But I didn't notice, except for my stressed adrenals. Anyway, I guess my earlier post was not completely accurate, as I'd really decreased both Estrogen and Testosterone 3-4 weeks prior to increasing the Cytomel.

I saw the doc yesterday, and he agreed to let me go back to capsules/troches at the dosage I was at last Spring - 1.75mg Tri-Est, 2mg Testosterone ... and 200mg Progesterone. I'll get that filled next week, and if it interferes with the thyroid, I'll go to every other day dosing of the Tri-Est and Testosterone, and if that doesn't work I'll either try a further reduced dosage or quit the Tri-Est and possibly the Testosterone entirely.

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: wliz@...

Wow, this is interestingHow much estrogen are you taking now? >> No butting in seen!> > Yes, my pulse went down when I increased the Cytomel. No change in type or brand of thyroid rx; I take brand name Cytomel. I'd decreased Estrogen 3-4 weeks earlier, and my understanding is that decrease should have already been realized by the time I increased the Cytomel, so I don't think the Estrogen decrease impacted my pulse.> > I can't think of any other changes that were made during this time frame, and am pretty certain there weren't any, but I AM still Hypo, so I don't entirely trust my brain LOL!> > I am NOt saying that increasing T3 will reduce pulse in anyone else .... just that this was my experience!> > Liz

..

[Guest guest]

hmmm I am using a digital basal therm. So what problems is THAT causing me?

Not as accurate? I have not seen a glass non mercury therm around here in

Wisconsin. Maybe I need to look again. I've had this one for about 6 mo.

Venizia

> >

> > Hi Val,

> >

> > Everything I've ever read, or googled & read, about Broda says that

used BASAL not oral temps, including this educational packet available

for order at brodabarnes.org: http://www.brodabarnes.org/educational_packets.htm

> >

> > Could you have misheard when listening to the seminar tape?

> >

> > I've always understood that was Basal Body Temp and Rind was 3xday

Oral Temp ...

> >

> > Liz

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From:

>

> > " Yet, through all these better years for me, my underarm basal body

temperature has remained between 96.7 and 97.2 degrees F. (Dr. defined

the normal basal temperature as 97.8-to-98.2 degrees F.) "

> >

> > BUT we are talkign the SAME temperature here! Broda used ORAL

temps. Underarm temps you always add ONE degree to as compared with oral temps.

iN my tapes I have of a Broda seminar, he used ORAL. I have heard several

peopel ove rthe years say he used underarm. that for most peopel wiould put them

hyper.

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Venizia,

Better to ask Val about the reason to avoid digital therms for 2xdaily Rind; I can't remember, except that it was important!

And I think Val actually recommends true Mercury therms.

But you should be able to get a glass non-mercury at Walgreens. And I think I read others found them at Walmart.

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: venizia1948

hmmm I am using a digital basal therm. So what problems is THAT causing me? Not as accurate? I have not seen a glass non mercury therm around here in Wisconsin. Maybe I need to look again. I've had this one for about 6 mo.Venizia

..

[Guest guest]

I am going to have to look again. I really like the readout on the digital it is

easy to read and it goes to the tenths degree which would be more accurate as

far as no mistakes reading.

Venizia

>

>

> Venizia,

>

> Better to ask Val about the reason to avoid digital therms for 2xdaily Rind; I

can't remember, except that it was important!

>

> And I think Val actually recommends true Mercury therms.

>

> But you should be able to get a glass non-mercury at Walgreens. And I think I

read others found them at Walmart.

>

> Liz

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: venizia1948

>

>

> hmmm I am using a digital basal therm. So what problems is THAT causing me?

Not as accurate? I have not seen a glass non mercury therm around here in

Wisconsin. Maybe I need to look again. I've had this one for about 6 mo.

>

> Venizia

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Whoops!

That was supposed to be 3xdaily Rind ...

----- Original Message -----

From: Just Me3

Better to ask Val about the reason to avoid digital therms for 2xdaily Rind; I can't remember, except that it was important!

..

[Guest guest]

> I take my temps orally WITH a basal thermometer. Is this perhaps where the

confusion is?

Isn't there a correction factor of about 1 degree when you do the armpit? As far

as thermometers go, I am thinking the temperature would have to be the same, no

matter what kind or the thing is inaccurate.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Hi Dorothy,

I don't think you were addressing me, but I'm confused about "the correction factor". I'm Hypo - please forgive me!

Do you mean some need for correction when taking basal temps (underarm) for use with Broda definitions of Hypo and Hyper? Or do you mean a correction factor when taking basal but using it as an "Oral reading", which I think would be like comparing apples to oranges?

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: dorothyroeder

> I take my temps orally WITH a basal thermometer. Is this perhaps where the confusion is?Isn't there a correction factor of about 1 degree when you do the armpit? As far as thermometers go, I am thinking the temperature would have to be the same, no matter what kind or the thing is inaccurate.Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Venizia,

If you like the tenths degree, you can get a glass basal therm.

The glass (non-basal) non-mercury therm that I got at Walgreens comes in a clear magnifying case so that reading it is MUCH easier that a regular glass therm. I got it a few years back and possibly Walgreens doesn't carry it anymore, but I'd think if you googled you'd be able to find one if Walgreen's doesn't.

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: venizia1948

I am going to have to look again. I really like the readout on the digital it is easy to read and it goes to the tenths degree which would be more accurate as far as no mistakes reading.Venizia

..

[Guest guest]

BASAL temps does nto specify where oyou take it but the time of day you

take it. BASAL temps can be done orally or rectally or underarm but they

must be done first thing when yuou wake before moving or gettign out of

bed, that si a BASAL temp.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

I just tested underarm and oral.. IDENTICAL. On me,. Now I do nto know

if this si the same for everyone, but at leat for me it clears up which

to use. for me oral is easier. I only use mercury thermometers as I have

had too many digitals that were nto accurate. I even bought oine of

Rind's non mercury ones and it is too big ti keep in my mouth it is a

battle to keep it from sliding out.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Thanks Val,

That makes sense!

So it's Basal Temps per Broda that are done first thing when waking AND under the arm for 10 minutes; that's if you want to use his under or equal to 97.7 equals Hypo and 98.2 of above equals Hyper ...

If someone wants to simultaneously test doing basal under arm for ten minutes and orally first thing in the AM, I'd be grateful as I hate doing it underarm (and don't have 2 therms to try both)!

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From:

BASAL temps does nto specify where oyou take it but the time of day you take it. BASAL temps can be done orally or rectally or underarm but they must be done first thing when yuou wake before moving or gettign out of bed, that si a BASAL temp.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

..

[Guest guest]

This is getting really confusing. Basal Body Temperature is the temperature of

your body at rest. Basal doesn't imply that it's axillary (underarm) OR oral,

just that it's taken in the morning before rising to get closest to the actual

lowest body temp.

There are Basal thermometers that can be used for both oral and axillary temps.

The only difference between a basal thermometer and any other thermometer is

that they measure in tenth degree incremements which are more accurate.

Now this is where I am confused with the postings on this thread:

I also thought Broda used axillary temps. Either way, I have always taken

my basal temp under my arm for 10 minutes. I shake the thermometer down to 95

the night before and place it in my armpit and leave it for 10 minutes before I

get out of bed. I DON " T add a degree to the temperature. The temperature is the

temperature. I suspect that if you take it for less than ten minutes or if you

use a digital thermometer it may not be accurate but I find that mine is in line

with my daily temperature pattern: My basal temp is 97.4, my noon temp is 97.7,

my 3:00 temp is 98.1 and my 6:00 temp is 98.0 so both my basal and my daily

averages still show I'm hypo.

I know that others take their basal temp orally and I think that's fine, too,

but IMO, it's not necessary to add a degree to the axillary temp if it's taken

properly.

Radar

>

> Hi Val,

>

> Everything I've ever read, or googled & read, about Broda says that

used BASAL not oral temps, including this educational packet available

for order at brodabarnes.org: http://www.brodabarnes.org/educational_packets.htm

>

> Could you have misheard when listening to the seminar tape?

>

> I've always understood that was Basal Body Temp and Rind was 3xday Oral

Temp ...

>

> Liz

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From:

>

>

>

>

> " Yet, through all these better years for me, my underarm basal body

temperature has remained between 96.7 and 97.2 degrees F. (Dr. defined

the normal basal temperature as 97.8-to-98.2 degrees F.) "

>

> BUT we are talkign the SAME temperature here! Broda used ORAL temps.

Underarm temps you always add ONE degree to as compared with oral temps. iN my

tapes I have of a Broda seminar, he used ORAL. I have heard several

peopel ove rthe years say he used underarm. that for most peopel wiould put them

hyper.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

>

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

If I remember... I will doti tomoorrow AM as I have at leat 10

thermometers! LOL I bought stock when I read that mercury ones were not

being made any longer.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HypoPets/

[Guest guest]

Radar.

I'm really sorry for adding to the confusion - I should have said that my understanding was that used Basal Axillary temps instead of " used BASAL not oral temps"!

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: radarbff

This is getting really confusing. Basal Body Temperature is the temperature of your body at rest. Basal doesn't imply that it's axillary (underarm) OR oral, just that it's taken in the morning before rising to get closest to the actual lowest body temp. There are Basal thermometers that can be used for both oral and axillary temps. The only difference between a basal thermometer and any other thermometer is that they measure in tenth degree incremements which are more accurate.Now this is where I am confused with the postings on this thread:I also thought Broda used axillary temps. Either way, I have always taken my basal temp under my arm for 10 minutes. I shake the thermometer down to 95 the night before and place it in my armpit and leave it for 10 minutes before I get out of bed. I DON"T add a degree to the temperature. The temperature is the temperature. I suspect that if you take it for less than ten minutes or if you use a digital thermometer it may not be accurate but I find that mine is in line with my daily temperature pattern: My basal temp is 97.4, my noon temp is 97.7, my 3:00 temp is 98.1 and my 6:00 temp is 98.0 so both my basal and my daily averages still show I'm hypo.I know that others take their basal temp orally and I think that's fine, too, but IMO, it's not necessary to add a degree to the axillary temp if it's taken properly.Radar>> Hi Val,> > Everything I've ever read, or googled & read, about Broda says that used BASAL not oral temps, including this educational packet available for order at brodabarnes.org: http://www.brodabarnes.org/educational_packets.htm> > Could you have misheard when listening to the seminar tape?> > I've always understood that was Basal Body Temp and Rind was 3xday Oral Temp ...> > Liz> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > > > > > " Yet, through all these better years for me, my underarm basal body temperature has remained between 96.7 and 97.2 degrees F. (Dr. defined the normal basal temperature as 97.8-to-98.2 degrees F.)"> > BUT we are talkign the SAME temperature here! Broda used ORAL temps. Underarm temps you always add ONE degree to as compared with oral temps. iN my tapes I have of a Broda seminar, he used ORAL. I have heard several peopel ove rthe years say he used underarm. that for most peopel wiould put them hyper. > > -- > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV>

..

[Guest guest]

Val,

I hope you do remember; that'd be great!

BTW, I'd like your opinion.

I stressed out my already stressed out adreanals, and want to add 2.5mg HC to my HC dosing schedule - at least for a while. I now take 22.5mg as 7.5 - 7.5 - 5 - 2.5. I take the 2.5 at 8pm and not at 1 or 2 when I go to bed because no matter how many times I tried to switch it I had trouble.

Should I take the 2.5mg as a bedtime dose, or add it to my AM dose to make the rythmn more natural?

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From:

If I remember... I will doti tomoorrow AM as I have at leat 10 thermometers! LOL I bought stock when I read that mercury ones were not being made any longer.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

..

[Guest guest]

LOL> there was a lot of confusion. But as usual, I'm late to the party and it

looks like it's all been resolved. It seems like by the time I read and then

start a post and then get interrupted by work, and then try to finish the post,

things have already moved waaaaay past what I was going to say

Radar

> I'm really sorry for adding to the confusion - I should have said that my

understanding was that used Basal Axillary temps instead of " used

BASAL not oral temps " !

>

> Liz

>

[Guest guest]

Radar,

I don't think you were thaaat late to the party; you helped clarify for me where my confusion was!

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: radarbff

LOL> there was a lot of confusion. But as usual, I'm late to the party and it looks like it's all been resolved. It seems like by the time I read and then start a post and then get interrupted by work, and then try to finish the post, things have already moved waaaaay past what I was going to say Radar

..

[Guest guest]

> Do you mean some need for correction when taking basal temps (underarm) for

use with Broda definitions of Hypo and Hyper? Or do you mean a

correction factor when taking basal but using it as an " Oral reading " , which I

think would be like comparing apples to oranges?

Like Val said, basal means the body is at rest. That's why you do it before you

get up in the morning. Same for HR.

As for armpit vs oral, Val also answered that. I have considered checking it

out, but the thought of putting it in my mouth after being in my arm pit turned

me off. And I don't have the energy to get up and wash it first.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

Thanks Dorothy,

Hopefully Val will remember to try the simultaneous comparision - she has lots of thermometers!

Liz

----- Original Message -----

From: dorothyroeder

Like Val said, basal means the body is at rest. That's why you do it before you get up in the morning. Same for HR.As for armpit vs oral, Val also answered that. I have considered checking it out, but the thought of putting it in my mouth after being in my arm pit turned me off. And I don't have the energy to get up and wash it first.Dorothy

[Guest guest]

> Hopefully Val will remember to try the simultaneous comparision - she has lots

of thermometers!

I think she said she already did. they were the same.

Dorothy

[Guest guest]

venizia1948 wrote:

> Why isn't anyone concerned about the following comment from dr. lowe? Doesn't

this say we may be beating a dead horse here with trying to get are temps just

right?! Am I missing something????

>

I'm concerned, but only in the sense that I think I might be one who

simply cannot use temps as a reliable guide. High temps did always

indicate hyperthyroid in me, but I'm not sure moderately low temps mean

hypo for ME.

As I postulated in my last email in this topic, I may simply have to

chart temps and find my own ideal temp range. Right now, I am just

taking basals, and trying to correlate them with symptoms. Haven't found

any connections yet, which isn't what I was expecting, so I do think Dr.

Lowe's temp ideas have implications for me.

sol