Welcome

[Guest guest]

Guadman,

I wouldn't take it personally. Maybe folks are just waiting to see what the

majority of your posts are going to reflect. This is a pretty transitory

group. I don't know if there are too many regulars. There have been a lot of

people at times coming in here all friendly for a few posts and than using

this forum to spew out all kinds of hateful stuff to those of us who have

become dissillusioned with the 12 step philosophy.

I don't really see this like a meeting. Myself, I respond to posts I can

relate to, or sometimes just think about them and don't post a reply.

Sometimes I will go months without posting. I pretty much expect the same

thing from others.

Anyway, sorry that you felt slighted. I am sure it wasn't personal. So why

don't you say more about your experience in AA and how you ended up here?

Rebekah

----------

>

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: Welcome

>Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000, 6:12 AM

>

> You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

>times.

> Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

>programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

>well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

>

[Guest guest]

At 06:12 AM 2/27/00 -0800, guadman wrote:

> You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

>times.

> Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

>programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

>well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

Hi. Welcome.

I'm sorry we're not more welcoming, but then again it may be a

reaction to what you say about AA. I see the 'greeting people' and

such in AA as more a part of 'the program' than it is a genuine desire

to make people feel at home. At some meetings there is one or more

assigned 'greeters' at the door who say hello and welcome and shake

the hand of every person who walks in. Why do they feel it's neccesary

to have an assigned greeter? They're honest about it - it's because it's

important to carry the message of this horrible disease of alcoholism and

how AA is the only thing that can help, and people have to be made to

feel at home and experience the 'love of the Program' if they're going

to keep coming back and get the message.

In my last years of going to meetings, in one of my more openly

sarcastic moments of saying exactly how I felt, I told a little about

my family when I was growing up, about being yelled at and dictated

to, and " then when I came to AA, I felt right at home. "

And I need only say 'hugging' to remember that a lot of inappropriate

hugging went on in the meetings I went to, especially male-to-attractive-

female, but also male-to-male - in this case it's not a sexual thing (at

least at the meetings I went to), but it was more of something you were

supposed to do as part of being in AA, and to show that " real men can

hug each other. " Someone who doesn't want to be hugged has to do a

lot of saying " no " and pushing people away not to be hugged.

When I first went to an SOS meeting I had the impression they were

cold and unwelcoming compared to AA, and while it was in a sense true,

it was a bit of a harsh judgement. SOS'ers are more like people in

'real life' - they have to get to know you and genuinely like you

before they say things like " I'm glad you're here. "

-----

http://listen.to/benbradley

[Guest guest]

Hi Ben,

You just sparked one of my earliest experiences in AA. I think I went a year

without hardly talking to anyone. I remember feeling incredibly fearful. I

was at coffee with a few people and one guy started yelling at me about what

I was hiding and how come I didn't talk in the meetings. He was totally

enraged. I just sat there in confusion. He must have been stewing over my

silence for weeks and months and took it very personally thinking my silence

was in some way all about him. Nobody at that table said anything to him or

me after this. I guess they were all busy pretending it wasn't happening

either. Reminds me of the drunk who comes home and destroys the house and

the family acting like it is totally normal.

It has taken me a long time to recognise intrusiveness, abuse and boundary

violations. I know I have felt " slimed " and it took me a long time to

recognise it wasn't something I did wrong (like many people who have grown

up with abuse) and begin to see the innappropriate behavior of others.

So anyway, things are better for me now. Rebekah

>

> Hi. Welcome.

>

> I'm sorry we're not more welcoming, but then again it may be a

>reaction to what you say about AA. I see the 'greeting people' and

>such in AA as more a part of 'the program' than it is a genuine desire

>to make people feel at home. At some meetings there is one or more

>assigned 'greeters' at the door who say hello and welcome and shake

>the hand of every person who walks in. Why do they feel it's neccesary

>to have an assigned greeter? They're honest about it - it's because it's

>important to carry the message of this horrible disease of alcoholism and

>how AA is the only thing that can help, and people have to be made to

>feel at home and experience the 'love of the Program' if they're going

>to keep coming back and get the message.

> In my last years of going to meetings, in one of my more openly

>sarcastic moments of saying exactly how I felt, I told a little about

>my family when I was growing up, about being yelled at and dictated

>to, and " then when I came to AA, I felt right at home. "

> And I need only say 'hugging' to remember that a lot of inappropriate

>hugging went on in the meetings I went to, especially male-to-attractive-

>female, but also male-to-male - in this case it's not a sexual thing (at

>least at the meetings I went to), but it was more of something you were

>supposed to do as part of being in AA, and to show that " real men can

>hug each other. " Someone who doesn't want to be hugged has to do a

>lot of saying " no " and pushing people away not to be hugged.

> When I first went to an SOS meeting I had the impression they were

>cold and unwelcoming compared to AA, and while it was in a sense true,

>it was a bit of a harsh judgement. SOS'ers are more like people in

>'real life' - they have to get to know you and genuinely like you

>before they say things like " I'm glad you're here. "

>

>-----

>http://listen.to/benbradley

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>If you took Podiminô, ReduxÆ, or the combination " Fen-Phen, "

>visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice package

>explaining your rights under the class settlement.

>http://click./1/833/1/_/4324/_/951663081/

>

>-- Create a poll/survey for your group!

>-- /vote?listname=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, welcome to 12 step-free. Personally I'm relatively new too and I

thought maybe you were a member that hadn't posted for awhile. It's a good

group who have had a lot of horrible experiences. Maybe you could give a

rundown of what happened to you?

Carol

----------

>

> To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> Subject: Welcome

> Date: Sunday, February 27, 2000 9:12 AM

>

> You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

> times.

> Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

> programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

> well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> If you took Podimin™, Redux®, or the combination " Fen-Phen, "

> visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice package

> explaining your rights under the class settlement.

> http://click./1/833/1/_/4324/_/951660763/

>

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

[Guest guest]

I have never been comfortable with the big hug , kiss cuddle hallo how

are you approach from anyone. I hate it!! Always have. I do not feel

like an odd ball for being one who wants to maintain his own space for

people who he wants in it with him. Now without going into my

experience of my boundaries being crashed, it is all historical for me.

So i just took the advice when it was put forward to me when i

complained in AA about injustices perpetrated on me in my life, The

advice i was given is as follows' 'Some things you cannot change, SON,

they are in the past, you've just gotto live with it!, Well that's

what i do with my hugaphobia i live with it. See it's easy. It's the

madmen who can't live with it.

>

>

> >

>

> Right on, Louree! Even my best friends will ask me if it's ok to do

this

> now. They actually wait for my response before coming into my

personal

> space. Rebekah

[Guest guest]

Rebekah.

Thanks.

I related it to AA because I was thinking about it at the time.

Regardless of what I..or anyone else may have been thru though...saying

hi to people is simply a matter of being courteus and nice.

I " judge " people by the way they ACT. The reasons we act the way we act

lends us understanding and compassion etc. It's NEVER an excuse for bad

behaviour.

" the divine rebekah " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12844

>

> Guadman,

> I wouldn't take it personally. Maybe folks are just waiting to see

what the

> majority of your posts are going to reflect. This is a pretty

transitory

> group. I don't know if there are too many regulars. There have been a

lot of

> people at times coming in here all friendly for a few posts and than

using

> this forum to spew out all kinds of hateful stuff to those of us who

have

> become dissillusioned with the 12 step philosophy.

>

> I don't really see this like a meeting. Myself, I respond to posts I

can

> relate to, or sometimes just think about them and don't post a reply.

> Sometimes I will go months without posting. I pretty much expect the

same

> thing from others.

>

> Anyway, sorry that you felt slighted. I am sure it wasn't personal.

So why

> don't you say more about your experience in AA and how you ended up

here?

> Rebekah

>

> ----------

> >

> >To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> >Subject: Welcome

> >Date: Sun, Feb 27, 2000, 6:12 AM

> >

>

> > You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

> >times.

> > Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> > Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

> >programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

> >well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rebekah!

What you said here...

> I spent a lot of time in AA being told how evil it

> was to take other peoples inventories.

reminds me of an e-mail I got over the weekend, in which a woman

reprimanded me for " taking other people's inventories " . I wrote her a

response which, in a nutshell told her that I sure am glad that someone

took the inventories of those people who were pro-slavery back in the

day, just as I'm glad that someone took the inventory of the Nazis when

they were rising to power.

If a crime victim picks out the criminal in a police lineup, is he

taking the criminal's inventory? Don't judges take people's inventory

all the time? Isn't it good and necessary in many many cases, to take

someone's inventory?

Apple

[Guest guest]

Yes Apple, your account of this woman's response suggests to me that the

tendency to ask people to not think for themselves is alive and well in AA.

I strongly believe that this is an example of the cultist aspect of AA: " Our

best thinking got us here, " so one must turn the responsibility of thinking

things through over to either the group as a whole or a sponsor.

Frightening!

llawrence@...

Re: Welcome

> Hi Rebekah!

>

> What you said here...

> > I spent a lot of time in AA being told how evil it

> > was to take other peoples inventories.

>

> reminds me of an e-mail I got over the weekend, in which a woman

> reprimanded me for " taking other people's inventories " . I wrote her a

> response which, in a nutshell told her that I sure am glad that someone

> took the inventories of those people who were pro-slavery back in the

> day, just as I'm glad that someone took the inventory of the Nazis when

> they were rising to power.

>

> If a crime victim picks out the criminal in a police lineup, is he

> taking the criminal's inventory? Don't judges take people's inventory

> all the time? Isn't it good and necessary in many many cases, to take

> someone's inventory?

>

> Apple

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

[Guest guest]

" the divine rebekah " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12855

>

>

> It feels so good when other people relate to what I assumed for so

long

> was " my problem " . That seems to be one of the great things about this

group.

> There seems to be a collective sigh of " You mean I wasn't crazy? " A

lot of

> steppers have come here complaining we do nothing but whine and

complain

> about AA....but it is really liberating to realize so many of us here

have

> had similar experiences.

I was talking to my mother the other day, and she asked me why I was so

much better than I had been. I explained it was because I had found

people on the net who felt the same way I did. My mother never bought

into anything she learned about AA, though she doesn't know much, but

she never understood, for example, why washing a stressed-out non-using

drunk's dishes to help him/her out is " enabling, " but washing a

stressed-out sober person's dishes is just helping. (One of her points

-- how do you know the sober person [ " normie " ] really isn't a drunk?

Because, as we all know, it's okay for a sober person to drink. Maybe

just hasn't come to anyone's attention yet? No DWI yet? No

complaining spouse yet? If it's true that a drunk should NEVER drink,

then the only way to be sure you never deal with drunks is to deal only

with people who never drink, and that isn't realistic.)

In my opinion, the " enabling " concept is just a way for self-righteous

normies, earthpeople, whatever they want to call themselves or whatever

their AA branded counterparts want to call them, to abuse their

" alcoholic " friends, relatives and spouses. It's just a way for those

people to get off the hook for being selfish forever, whether the issue

is picking up an iced tea at 's if they're going there anyway or

some big deal, like helping you move or testifying for you in court.

And isn't the idea of enabling a perfect excuse for letting people take

others' inventories?

[Guest guest]

Hi Apple,

The first thing that came to mind when I read this was the typical

response that you get from the AA'ers on these types of questions.

" YES, IT'S OK FRO THESE PEOPLE TO TAKE SOMEONES INVENTORY, BUT WE ARE

ALCOHOLICS AND WE ARE DIFFERENT. WE CANNOT AFFORD SUCH LUXURIES. "

Kind of makes me want to go and talk to the great white telephone.

Mike M

If a crime victim picks out the criminal in a police lineup, is he

taking the criminal's inventory? Don't judges take people's inventory

all the time? Isn't it good and necessary in many many cases, to take

someone's inventory?

Apple

[Guest guest]

LOL apple.

If we weren't able to " take people's inventory " and make " judgements "

we would all be dead. I love your comment about her taking your

inventory..regarding taking people's inventory. HA! I tend to use that

against them whenever they pull their " Advice and Analysis " (AA)

bullshyt whenever confronted with anything outside of AA rhetoric. It's

their sick trick to get you to quit thinking straight about what you

said to them. I also tend to be gentle and...oblique..when they

analyze me. I tell them... " hey..regarding that analysis of me u just

did?...go F yourself. "

:-)

appledt-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12859

> Hi Rebekah!

>

> What you said here...

> > I spent a lot of time in AA being told how evil it

> > was to take other peoples inventories.

>

> reminds me of an e-mail I got over the weekend, in which a woman

> reprimanded me for " taking other people's inventories " . I wrote her a

> response which, in a nutshell told her that I sure am glad that

someone

> took the inventories of those people who were pro-slavery back in the

> day, just as I'm glad that someone took the inventory of the Nazis

when

> they were rising to power.

>

> If a crime victim picks out the criminal in a police lineup, is he

> taking the criminal's inventory? Don't judges take people's inventory

> all the time? Isn't it good and necessary in many many cases, to take

> someone's inventory?

>

> Apple

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello guadman

Have you REALLY posted a few times under this addy? Did you see your

own posts? I dont always welcome everybody, but I dont remeber you. I

notice you dont sign yourself - you might be more likely to get a

welcome of you introduced yourself!

Pete

" guadman " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12842

> You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

> times.

> Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

> programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

> well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

>

[Guest guest]

" snazy " wrote:

" Say No to Hugs! "

That's a gem Louree. In one non-stepper support group I was on, we

invented the " huf " - a safe hug that you defined for yourself when

someone offered it to you online.

Hufs,

Pete

[Guest guest]

Pete,

Yes, i have posted here quite a few times.

And yes, I see my own posts.

guadman

" pete watts " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12892

> Hello guadman

>

> Have you REALLY posted a few times under this addy? Did you see your

> own posts? I dont always welcome everybody, but I dont remeber you. I

> notice you dont sign yourself - you might be more likely to get a

> welcome of you introduced yourself!

>

> Pete

>

> " guadman " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=128

42

> > You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

> > times.

> > Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> > Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

> > programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

> > well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I thought maybe I was just spaced out and losing it. I usualy go

through posts really fast and am heavy on the delete button unless something

really gets my attention. I'm kind of a speed reader/scanner of a ton of

newsgroups and lists. I went to the archives and found posts by Guadman

......a couple on a Thurs, one on Fri and Sat, then the welcome mssg thread

on Sunday.

Heck...3 or 4 days is barely enough time to know I am here let alone anyone

else. I know many like me who pop in every few weeks. Have you posted more

than these 4 times before you questioned our proper behavior and politeness?

I don't know, I think I posted here for a few months before I really

started to get to know and reply back and forth with a couple of people. I

kinda expect that on these groups. Maybe if I am lucky 2 or 3 people might

relate to what I have to say and vice-versa. Just my 2 cents on the dynamics

of newsgroups and e-lists. Rebekah

----------

>

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: Re: Welcome

>Date: Thu, Mar 2, 2000, 7:07 AM

>

>Pete,

>Yes, i have posted here quite a few times.

>And yes, I see my own posts.

>

>guadman

>

>

>

>

> " pete watts " wrote:

>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12892

>> Hello guadman

>>

>> Have you REALLY posted a few times under this addy? Did you see your

>> own posts? I dont always welcome everybody, but I dont remeber you. I

>> notice you dont sign yourself - you might be more likely to get a

>> welcome of you introduced yourself!

>>

>> Pete

>>

>> " guadman " wrote:

>> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=128

>42

>> > You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a few

>> > times.

>> > Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

>> > Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

>> > programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

>> > well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

>> >

>>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!

>Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as

>0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.

>Apply NOW!

>http://click./1/2066/1/_/4324/_/952009660/

>

>-- Check out your group's private Chat room

>-- /ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rebekah that is an interesting little dance you did.

Reminds me of when i have beein in AA forums.

This really isn't a very friendly place.

Unlikely I will make this a regular part of my schedule.

It's great reading other people's experiences.

In general though...people here seem way more interested in their own

ideas then making anyone else feel welcome.

Even in my fights with 12 steppers..what I am against are the lies.

They have the " we need each other " thing way better then here though.

You may say... " well we have REASONS we act that way " .

You know what?..EVERYONE has a " reason " they act the way they act.

Everyone.

Take care.

guadman

" the divine rebekah " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12914

>

> Well, I thought maybe I was just spaced out and losing it. I usualy go

> through posts really fast and am heavy on the delete button unless

something

> really gets my attention. I'm kind of a speed reader/scanner of a ton

of

> newsgroups and lists. I went to the archives and found posts by

Guadman

> .....a couple on a Thurs, one on Fri and Sat, then the welcome mssg

thread

> on Sunday.

> Heck...3 or 4 days is barely enough time to know I am here let alone

anyone

> else. I know many like me who pop in every few weeks. Have you

posted more

> than these 4 times before you questioned our proper behavior and

politeness?

> I don't know, I think I posted here for a few months before I

really

> started to get to know and reply back and forth with a couple of

people. I

> kinda expect that on these groups. Maybe if I am lucky 2 or 3 people

might

> relate to what I have to say and vice-versa. Just my 2 cents on the

dynamics

> of newsgroups and e-lists. Rebekah

>

> ----------

> >

> >To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> >Subject: Re: Welcome

> >Date: Thu, Mar 2, 2000, 7:07 AM

> >

>

> >Pete,

> >Yes, i have posted here quite a few times.

> >And yes, I see my own posts.

> >

> >guadman

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > " pete watts " wrote:

> >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12

892

> >> Hello guadman

> >>

> >> Have you REALLY posted a few times under this addy? Did you see

your

> >> own posts? I dont always welcome everybody, but I dont remeber

you. I

> >> notice you dont sign yourself - you might be more likely to get a

> >> welcome of you introduced yourself!

> >>

> >> Pete

> >>

> >> " guadman " wrote:

> >> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=

128

> >42

> >> > You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a

few

> >> > times.

> >> > Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> >> > Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

> >> > programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

> >> > well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

> >> >

> >>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

PLONK !!!

Re: Welcome

Rebekah that is an interesting little dance you did.

[Guest guest]

Wow, such drama. Forgive me (or not), but being in a forum where I am

permitted to have my own ideas is such a new experience for me that yes, I

for one am more interested in discussing them than in welcoming people.

Which is not to say I'm not interested in the ideas other people bring,

quite the contrary. I personally hate the whole greeting thing at meetings

or here. To each her own, I guess.

Guilty as charged,

>

>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>Subject: Re: Welcome

>Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:13:05 -0800

>

>Rebekah that is an interesting little dance you did.

>Reminds me of when i have beein in AA forums.

>This really isn't a very friendly place.

>Unlikely I will make this a regular part of my schedule.

>It's great reading other people's experiences.

>In general though...people here seem way more interested in their own

>ideas then making anyone else feel welcome.

>Even in my fights with 12 steppers..what I am against are the lies.

>They have the " we need each other " thing way better then here though.

>You may say... " well we have REASONS we act that way " .

>You know what?..EVERYONE has a " reason " they act the way they act.

>Everyone.

>

>Take care.

>

>guadman

>

>

>

>

>

> " the divine rebekah " wrote:

>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12914

> >

> > Well, I thought maybe I was just spaced out and losing it. I usualy go

> > through posts really fast and am heavy on the delete button unless

>something

> > really gets my attention. I'm kind of a speed reader/scanner of a ton

>of

> > newsgroups and lists. I went to the archives and found posts by

>Guadman

> > .....a couple on a Thurs, one on Fri and Sat, then the welcome mssg

>thread

> > on Sunday.

> > Heck...3 or 4 days is barely enough time to know I am here let alone

>anyone

> > else. I know many like me who pop in every few weeks. Have you

>posted more

> > than these 4 times before you questioned our proper behavior and

>politeness?

> > I don't know, I think I posted here for a few months before I

>really

> > started to get to know and reply back and forth with a couple of

>people. I

> > kinda expect that on these groups. Maybe if I am lucky 2 or 3 people

>might

> > relate to what I have to say and vice-versa. Just my 2 cents on the

>dynamics

> > of newsgroups and e-lists. Rebekah

> >

> > ----------

> > >

> > >To: 12-step-freeeGroups

> > >Subject: Re: Welcome

> > >Date: Thu, Mar 2, 2000, 7:07 AM

> > >

> >

> > >Pete,

> > >Yes, i have posted here quite a few times.

> > >And yes, I see my own posts.

> > >

> > >guadman

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > " pete watts " wrote:

> > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12

>892

> > >> Hello guadman

> > >>

> > >> Have you REALLY posted a few times under this addy? Did you see

>your

> > >> own posts? I dont always welcome everybody, but I dont remeber

>you. I

> > >> notice you dont sign yourself - you might be more likely to get a

> > >> welcome of you introduced yourself!

> > >>

> > >> Pete

> > >>

> > >> " guadman " wrote:

> > >> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=

>128

> > >42

> > >> > You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a

>few

> > >> > times.

> > >> > Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

> > >> > Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

> > >> > programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

> > >> > well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

> > >> >

> > >>

> > >

> > >

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and

>supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party!

>http://click./1/1635/1/_/4324/_/952096401/

>

>eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> - Simplifying group communications

>

>

______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Rebekah, wait, I'm confused. I was referring to " guadman " 's post, defending

yours. I'm sorry for being unclear. I was referring specifically to his

line :

> >>In general though...people here seem way more interested in their own

>ideas then making anyone else feel welcome.

>>

I definitely agree with you on this one, Rebekah.

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What I have gotten a little tweaked with was not the feelings expressed...it

was the blaming. There is a difference between " when this happened I

felt...... " and getting into the judgements and shoulds.

The first takes responsibility for ones own feelings. I felt shamed and

manipulated into acting a certain way in order to fit someones elses

expectations " of proper behavior " . I'm rather sick of being dictated to

about how to behave. It just raises a lot of red flags for me when anyone

starts saying " If you were a nice person you would.....or If you really

loved me you would..... "

I am not responsible for other people's feelings for one thing. It's not my

job to make anyone feel anything.

I like to feel that is is my choice when and how to express my feelings

about someone when I feel moved to, not when they decide I should. It feels

more authentic to me. I personally hate the greeting thing too. It feels

artificial and contrived. I'm here to exchange ideas, not make people like

me. Rebekah

>

>

>Wow, such drama. Forgive me (or not), but being in a forum where I am

>permitted to have my own ideas is such a new experience for me that yes, I

>for one am more interested in discussing them than in welcoming people.

>Which is not to say I'm not interested in the ideas other people bring,

>quite the contrary. I personally hate the whole greeting thing at meetings

>or here. To each her own, I guess.

>Guilty as charged,

>

>>

>>Reply-To: 12-step-freeegroups

>>To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>>Subject: Re: Welcome

>>Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:13:05 -0800

>>

>>Rebekah that is an interesting little dance you did.

>>Reminds me of when i have beein in AA forums.

>>This really isn't a very friendly place.

>>Unlikely I will make this a regular part of my schedule.

>>It's great reading other people's experiences.

>>In general though...people here seem way more interested in their own

>>ideas then making anyone else feel welcome.

>>Even in my fights with 12 steppers..what I am against are the lies.

>>They have the " we need each other " thing way better then here though.

>>You may say... " well we have REASONS we act that way " .

>>You know what?..EVERYONE has a " reason " they act the way they act.

>>Everyone.

>>

>>Take care.

>>

>>guadman

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> " the divine rebekah " wrote:

>>original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12914

>> >

>> > Well, I thought maybe I was just spaced out and losing it. I usualy go

>> > through posts really fast and am heavy on the delete button unless

>>something

>> > really gets my attention. I'm kind of a speed reader/scanner of a ton

>>of

>> > newsgroups and lists. I went to the archives and found posts by

>>Guadman

>> > .....a couple on a Thurs, one on Fri and Sat, then the welcome mssg

>>thread

>> > on Sunday.

>> > Heck...3 or 4 days is barely enough time to know I am here let alone

>>anyone

>> > else. I know many like me who pop in every few weeks. Have you

>>posted more

>> > than these 4 times before you questioned our proper behavior and

>>politeness?

>> > I don't know, I think I posted here for a few months before I

>>really

>> > started to get to know and reply back and forth with a couple of

>>people. I

>> > kinda expect that on these groups. Maybe if I am lucky 2 or 3 people

>>might

>> > relate to what I have to say and vice-versa. Just my 2 cents on the

>>dynamics

>> > of newsgroups and e-lists. Rebekah

>> >

>> > ----------

>> > >

>> > >To: 12-step-freeeGroups

>> > >Subject: Re: Welcome

>> > >Date: Thu, Mar 2, 2000, 7:07 AM

>> > >

>> >

>> > >Pete,

>> > >Yes, i have posted here quite a few times.

>> > >And yes, I see my own posts.

>> > >

>> > >guadman

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > >

>> > > " pete watts " wrote:

>> > >original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12

>>892

>> > >> Hello guadman

>> > >>

>> > >> Have you REALLY posted a few times under this addy? Did you see

>>your

>> > >> own posts? I dont always welcome everybody, but I dont remeber

>>you. I

>> > >> notice you dont sign yourself - you might be more likely to get a

>> > >> welcome of you introduced yourself!

>> > >>

>> > >> Pete

>> > >>

>> > >> " guadman " wrote:

>> > >> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=

>>128

>> > >42

>> > >> > You know, I just recently found this place and have posted a

>>few

>> > >> > times.

>> > >> > Not a single solitary person here said " hi " , or " welcome " .

>> > >> > Really makes me think about my attitude about 12 step

>> > >> > programs....that is one thing AA'ers really do have down

>> > >> > well...greeting people and making them feel at home.

>> > >> >

>> > >>

>> > >

>> > >

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Planning a party? iParty.com is your complete source for party planning and

>>supplies, with everything you need to throw the perfect party!

>>http://click./1/1635/1/_/4324/_/952096401/

>>

>>eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

>> - Simplifying group communications

>>

>>

>

>______________________________________________________

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>You have a voice mail message waiting for you at iHello.com:

>http://click./1/2130/1/_/4324/_/952150275/

>

>-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

>-- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Guadman,

I was going to stay out of this. But I feel like i have to put my 2

cents in now. When you came on the list, you never said that you were new.

You just started posting. I didnt have a clue that you were new. You didnt

send an intro post to let everyone know your new here. There are a lot of

people on this list and I just cant remember who all of them are. Im sorry

you felt slighted but had you sent an intro people probably would have been

much more greeting of you. I see this situation similar to someone being

pissed off cause no one remembered their birthday, but they didnt tell

anyone it was their birthday. If you dont tell us, we dont know.

Louree

[Guest guest]

....I was agreeing with your not liking the formality of greetings

and mainly being interested in exchanging ideas. I probably cut and pasted

the wrong line. Hey I was confused with you being confused. Talk about

confusing. Guess I have been in class to long today! Rebekah

>Rebekah, wait, I'm confused. I was referring to " guadman " 's post, defending

>yours. I'm sorry for being unclear. I was referring specifically to his

>line :

>

>> >>In general though...people here seem way more interested in their own

>>ideas then making anyone else feel welcome.

> >>

>

>I definitely agree with you on this one, Rebekah.

>

>______________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

, I live in Queens, NYC. Welcome and I am sorry you have to

be here. I have seen one of our A list docs and am still under his

care at this time, but we were able to breal through the scarring at

my uterus with the HSG and a diagnostic Hyst. I am seeing Dr. Cohen

who is affiliated with Columbia. I am currently scare free and have

had my period the last two months after not having one for almost 3

years. I am currently TTC. There is a member named Lori who also

lives in NYC and I believe you had surgery with a specialist who is

npt on the A list but had great results. Living in NYC does give us

more options than many of the other members, so for that we are

lucky. There is hope, but you need to take charge of your AS. I

just read the primer that some of the members put together and I

believe it is an excellent source of information.

Karin