Re: Fed Gov Screwed Way Up

[Guest guest]

<< Is this right wing - this Libertarian stuff? >>

The political party that calls itself " Libertarian " cannot neatly be placed

into " right-wing " or " left-wing " categories, since " Libertarians " endorse

decriminalization of narcotics, prostitution. However, many " Libertatrans "

embrace the ideas of Ayn Rand, egoist that rivals Max Sturmer.

In the early part of this century, anarchists were also called libertarians,

as they believed in true liberty, but that term was hijacked by those

" radicals " who campaigned for Goldwater in '64 but found the GOP too stifling

for their tastes...

Later on, I'll find that site that explains why the LP is actually a FRAUD.

Tim

[Guest guest]

<< Hey Tim,

Thank you.

I'd like to gather more information -- I registered just recently

because of an ideal that maybe it was the closest offered of political

parties representing my dreams. I don't think there is one TRULY

reflective of my nature. I'd rather call myself my own thing... but I

wouldn't necessarily pick one label. >>

Here's that URL I promised. VISIT:

http://www.tigerden.com/~berios/liberty.html

There should be enough material there for one to chew on, if one CARES to.

Tim

[Guest guest]

An interesting little tidbit:

I do research on community service, civic duty, and helping. Democrats

and republicans report similar levels (Democrats tend to be higher, but

not significantly) of helping, volunteering, and engaging in civic

duties, while libertarians report significantly lower levels of such

activities. In fact, libertarians report that, voluntarily, they barely

do ANY of those things they want the government to stop doing. Seems to

me, Libertarianism is nothing more than bourgeois greed and laziness.

M R wrote:

<Libertarian bullshit snipped>

[Guest guest]

On the basis of these right-wing posts, I have decided that Szasz has

it the wrong way round; it is the existence of mental health that is a

myth in America.

Who feels no need to be anonymous

" m r " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12102

> Personally - I am a registered Libertarian. I have been told this

country

> was built on Libertarian principles but has now been downtrodden upon

by the

> likes of our government today. It seems we have become so

over-governed and

> this reeks of 12Steppism and cultism.

>

> This belief I am investigating for myself is that government is meant

for

> one thing only -- to protect me from violence and coercion (force by

threat

> of violence). Wouldn't us folks would be so much more inclined to

healthy

> living if we had the wonderful activities naturally available to us

as ages

> ago when this country was founded. Activities that government has

snatched

> out of our hands and taxed us endlessly and bloodily to shoddily,

poorly and

> probably really notly provide. For instance -- charities, schools,

> everything -- except for the protection from violence and coercion.

>

> I wonder, is it no wonder that I had medicated myself to living

zombielike

> death out of no place in society to express my beautiful nature.

Killed by

> a government and system which actually seems to create the problems

it

> whines about. It's gonna be an interesting millineum.

>

> There's lots of useful info on the website:

>

> http://lp.org

>

> I'm still new to this, and I have a lot of research to complete.

Have at it

> in your own ways. I thought this may help with the discussion about

our

> federal government being such a problem. I do believe it is a

sympton of a

> huge global issue. One affecting us worldwide. Kinda like one of

the heads

> of a huge multi-headed beast. And it filters down to the smallest of

us. I

> know, I got me.

> ______________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Is this right wing - this Libertarian stuff?

[Guest guest]

Wow -- really harsh of you to make such a statement as below, it gives

me something to think about. I do recall stating I have a lot of

research to do. And, as far as my personal activities...I don't

believe they are in question, yet. Seems to me a broad generalization

about a group not stuck in cliches and slogans. Funny, what's the gain

or point you wish to accomplish? Did you think there was a personal

attack against you in my comments? I find myself TOTALLY turned away

from anything you are advertising as positive. Seems more cruel and

harsh and judgemental. NOT at ALL in line with my dreams.

jim yelverton wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12105

> An interesting little tidbit:

> I do research on community service, civic duty, and helping.

Democrats

> and republicans report similar levels (Democrats tend to be higher,

but

> not significantly) of helping, volunteering, and engaging in civic

> duties, while libertarians report significantly lower levels of such

> activities. In fact, libertarians report that, voluntarily, they

barely

> do ANY of those things they want the government to stop doing. Seems

to

> me, Libertarianism is nothing more than bourgeois greed and laziness.

>

> M R wrote:

> <Libertarian bullshit snipped>

[Guest guest]

jumbo3-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12114

> In a message dated 1/28/100 10:19:28 PM EST, miss_hell@...

writes:

>

> << Is this right wing - this Libertarian stuff? >>

>

> The political party that calls itself " Libertarian " cannot neatly be

placed

> into " right-wing " or " left-wing " categories, since " Libertarians "

endorse

> decriminalization of narcotics, prostitution. However, many

" Libertatrans "

> embrace the ideas of Ayn Rand, egoist that rivals Max Sturmer.

>

> In the early part of this century, anarchists were also called

libertarians,

> as they believed in true liberty, but that term was hijacked by those

> " radicals " who campaigned for Goldwater in '64 but found the GOP too

stifling

> for their tastes...

>

> Later on, I'll find that site that explains why the LP is actually a

FRAUD.

>

> Tim

Hey Tim,

Thank you.

I'd like to gather more information -- I registered just recently

because of an ideal that maybe it was the closest offered of political

parties representing my dreams. I don't think there is one TRULY

reflective of my nature. I'd rather call myself my own thing... but I

wouldn't necessarily pick one label.

Maybe Utopian -- but I don't really know for sure.

Funny -- the flare of other folks ire at what I wrote. You'd think

there would be more compassion for my ignorance. Especially in the

face of my own acknowledgement.

Peace,

Miss Hell

[Guest guest]

> Here's that URL I promised. VISIT:

>

> http://www.tigerden.com/~berios/liberty.html

>

> There should be enough material there for one to chew on, if one

CARES to.

>

> Tim

I'll be fed for a long ass time on this. Thanks... don't mind if I

give myself the time it will take to look into this stuff. There

really is no place in this world for me. I can't wait til I'm done

with my purpose here so I can go back to my own planet.

" Very funny, y. Now beam down my clothes. "

[Guest guest]

Dear Apple,

And Mr. Watts.

I think I have gained all the help to de-program from AA.NA.CA.

I am not sure I will be here after I come back Monday and read the

posts from you folks.

It's not necessary for me to suffer anymore.

I am done.

I will not settle for bullying here. I don't like it. It just

occurred to me that the " no need to be (... I can't spell) anonymous "

statement was also cruel. Subtle cruelty. Reminds me of the tricks

played when I trusted much easier and smacks of the reason I was able

to stay in the XA programs for 6 years, 6 months and 6 days.

I had been thinking I needed you guys. I guess this is the time to fly

away. I guess I have accomplished my goal for which I came to this

group. To stop looking to others to teach me.

I'm scared. I'm scared of taking off, but I'm even more terrified to

stay now.

I guess my post about Libertarian was an open invitation to discuss

what I don't know much about. But there was NO respect in those

responses. I don't think I was disrespectful in my post. I don't

believe it was necessary to be attacked so cruelly.

Or, perhaps, I am sensitive. But, so be it. All I have is me. And, I

have suffered plenty of abuse - so I trust my reactions as a good

indication of danger.

I will probably will not renew my political affiliation as a result of

further research. I appreciate the url that led me to information

about anarchy and libertarianism. I don't understand really that much

about any group in our government. I only understand the most about

me... and this is constantly growing.

God, I hate being alone.

I'm going home for the weekend. This feels so fucking shitty. I

can't believe total strangers have the ability to hurt me so. But,

shit, I can't even watch the news without crying. I hurt when I sense

hurt. I think that's just my calling. Anyways. If this annoyed you,

tuff shit. I'm writing for me -- don't feel bad for me -- I've got a

handle on that one already. One big party -- crashers welcome - BYOP.

(Bring Your Own Pity)

[Guest guest]

Miss Hell wrote:

>

> Wow -- really harsh of you to make such a statement as below, it gives

> me something to think about. I do recall stating I have a lot of

> research to do. And, as far as my personal activities...I don't

> believe they are in question, yet. Seems to me a broad generalization

> about a group not stuck in cliches and slogans. Funny, what's the gain

> or point you wish to accomplish? Did you think there was a personal

> attack against you in my comments? I find myself TOTALLY turned away

> from anything you are advertising as positive. Seems more cruel and

> harsh and judgemental. NOT at ALL in line with my dreams.

>

How appropriate that you admit to being blissfully asleep! You really

are a libertarian!

All I have done is to give you and others on the list who have expressed

similar stupidity a bit of data (i.e., reality not horse shit theory).

I'll let you know when and where my research gets published. In the

mean time ... it seems to me that, in this century, the attempts we have

seen at communism are a good example of the differences between theory

and reality. Do we really want to gamble on Libertarianism? I say no!

Our political system is already OVERLY influenced by big business. As

this happens more people become disillusioned with the political system

and fewer people vote. The outcome is that only those with something at

stake, such as upper middle class stock holders end up being more likely

than others to vote. This, in my opinion, is a return to what the

founding fathers had in mind when they granted Southern slave holders a

3/5ths vote for each slave they held. The main difference is that the

race distinction has been removed. The second difference being that

lower classes have been allowed to vote for themselves now that they

have been disillusioned (look up learned helplessness) and that the maps

have been drawn so that their votes DO equal a virtual 3/5ths of those

of the middle and upper classes. Imagine if you will, the likelihood of

voting for the following two scenarios: (1) you live in a So. Carolina

suburban middle class neighborhood - in order for you to vote, all you

have to do is get in your shiny new SUV and drive a mile to the local

elementary school; and (2), you're poor and live in rural So. Carolina -

in order for you to vote, you have to drive 40 miles in a beat up old

car. This is the reality across this country. While the middle class

sleeps in relative comfort, the poor have barriers erected against

them. Do you really want to trust the future of the middle class to

corporations who would just as soon save a buck by using prisoners of an

unjust drug war for labor? While the libertarians speak of freedom,

they naively fail to acknowledge that freedom is not distributed equally

(pick up a decent Intro to Sociology text sometime). Worse,

libertarians ignore instances where money has been used to suppers

freedom. Further, you fools do not realize that AA, and the movement

for " spiritualization " of America has its roots in efforts to move from

a materialistic society (i.e. labor negotiating for its share of the

profits) to a " powerless " society (i.e., being happy, no serene, with

your minimum wage shit job). Do you believe that " self-actualization "

has nothing to do with money? That's what the " higher powers " (to

barrow a phrase from Diener) want you to believe. Unfortunately

what is needed is real campaign finance reform, and it may take a second

revolution (of sorts) to achieve that.

As I sit here I wonder why WE have accepted the war on drugs as a

substitute for the war on poverty. Under the supposed strongest economy

in 30-years (according to Wallstreet), in the supposed greatest nation

on earth, $1.5 Billion is sent to Columbia that could have been spent

towards training the hard-core unemployed for jobs. Anybody ever read

Heart of Darkness? Or, is it all Atlas Shrugged in this crowd?

[Guest guest]

PS, From Henry Thoreau:

Most men, even in this comparatively free country, through mere

ignorance and mistake, are so occupied with factitious cares and

superfluously coarse labors of life that its finer fruits cannot be

plucked by them. Their fingers, from excessive toil, are too clumsy and

tremble too much for that. Actually, the laboring man has not leisure

for a true integrity day by day; he cannot afford to sustain the

manliest relations to men; his labor would be depreciated in the

market. He has no time to be anything but a machine. How can he

remember well his ignorance--which his growth requires--who has so often

to use his knowledge? We should feed and clothe him gratuitously

sometimes, and recruit him with our cordials, before we judge him. The

finest qualities of our nature, like the bloom on fruits, can be

preserved only by the most delicate handling. Yet we do not treat

ourselves nor one another thus tenderly. (Walden, 150 years ago)

Jim Yelverton wrote:

>

> Miss Hell wrote:

> >

> > Wow -- really harsh of you to make such a statement as below, it gives

> > me something to think about. I do recall stating I have a lot of

> > research to do. And, as far as my personal activities...I don't

> > believe they are in question, yet. Seems to me a broad generalization

> > about a group not stuck in cliches and slogans. Funny, what's the gain

> > or point you wish to accomplish? Did you think there was a personal

> > attack against you in my comments? I find myself TOTALLY turned away

> > from anything you are advertising as positive. Seems more cruel and

> > harsh and judgemental. NOT at ALL in line with my dreams.

> >

>

> How appropriate that you admit to being blissfully asleep! You really

> are a libertarian!

>

> All I have done is to give you and others on the list who have expressed

> similar stupidity a bit of data (i.e., reality not horse shit theory).

> I'll let you know when and where my research gets published. In the

> mean time ... it seems to me that, in this century, the attempts we have

> seen at communism are a good example of the differences between theory

> and reality. Do we really want to gamble on Libertarianism? I say no!

> Our political system is already OVERLY influenced by big business. As

> this happens more people become disillusioned with the political system

> and fewer people vote. The outcome is that only those with something at

> stake, such as upper middle class stock holders end up being more likely

> than others to vote. This, in my opinion, is a return to what the

> founding fathers had in mind when they granted Southern slave holders a

> 3/5ths vote for each slave they held. The main difference is that the

> race distinction has been removed. The second difference being that

> lower classes have been allowed to vote for themselves now that they

> have been disillusioned (look up learned helplessness) and that the maps

> have been drawn so that their votes DO equal a virtual 3/5ths of those

> of the middle and upper classes. Imagine if you will, the likelihood of

> voting for the following two scenarios: (1) you live in a So. Carolina

> suburban middle class neighborhood - in order for you to vote, all you

> have to do is get in your shiny new SUV and drive a mile to the local

> elementary school; and (2), you're poor and live in rural So. Carolina -

> in order for you to vote, you have to drive 40 miles in a beat up old

> car. This is the reality across this country. While the middle class

> sleeps in relative comfort, the poor have barriers erected against

> them. Do you really want to trust the future of the middle class to

> corporations who would just as soon save a buck by using prisoners of an

> unjust drug war for labor? While the libertarians speak of freedom,

> they naively fail to acknowledge that freedom is not distributed equally

> (pick up a decent Intro to Sociology text sometime). Worse,

> libertarians ignore instances where money has been used to suppers

> freedom. Further, you fools do not realize that AA, and the movement

> for " spiritualization " of America has its roots in efforts to move from

> a materialistic society (i.e. labor negotiating for its share of the

> profits) to a " powerless " society (i.e., being happy, no serene, with

> your minimum wage shit job). Do you believe that " self-actualization "

> has nothing to do with money? That's what the " higher powers " (to

> barrow a phrase from Diener) want you to believe. Unfortunately

> what is needed is real campaign finance reform, and it may take a second

> revolution (of sorts) to achieve that.

>

> As I sit here I wonder why WE have accepted the war on drugs as a

> substitute for the war on poverty. Under the supposed strongest economy

> in 30-years (according to Wallstreet), in the supposed greatest nation

> on earth, $1.5 Billion is sent to Columbia that could have been spent

> towards training the hard-core unemployed for jobs. Anybody ever read

> Heart of Darkness? Or, is it all Atlas Shrugged in this crowd?

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Want to send money instantly to anyone, anywhere, anytime?

> You can today at X.com - and we'll give you $20 to try it! Sign

> up today at X.com. It's quick, free, & there's no obligation!

> http://click./1/332/1/_/4324/_/949142583/

>

> -- Check out your group's private Chat room

> -- /ChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

[Guest guest]

Hey, thanks for the URL--will check it out.

[Guest guest]

Gee Pete, that's one of the largest and most diverse populations in the

world you're refering to--just because some lady posts political

opinions you disagree with? We can't all be so lucky as to be born in

the Kingdom.

" pete watts " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12104

> On the basis of these right-wing posts, I have decided that Szasz has

> it the wrong way round; it is the existence of mental health that is a

> myth in America.

>

>

> Who feels no need to be anonymous

>

> " m r " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=121

02

> > Personally - I am a registered Libertarian. I have been told this

> country

> > was built on Libertarian principles but has now been downtrodden

upon

> by the

> > likes of our government today. It seems we have become so

> over-governed and

> > this reeks of 12Steppism and cultism.

> >

> > This belief I am investigating for myself is that government is

meant

> for

> > one thing only -- to protect me from violence and coercion (force by

> threat

> > of violence). Wouldn't us folks would be so much more inclined to

> healthy

> > living if we had the wonderful activities naturally available to us

> as ages

> > ago when this country was founded. Activities that government has

> snatched

> > out of our hands and taxed us endlessly and bloodily to shoddily,

> poorly and

> > probably really notly provide. For instance -- charities, schools,

> > everything -- except for the protection from violence and coercion.

> >

> > I wonder, is it no wonder that I had medicated myself to living

> zombielike

> > death out of no place in society to express my beautiful nature.

> Killed by

> > a government and system which actually seems to create the problems

> it

> > whines about. It's gonna be an interesting millineum.

> >

> > There's lots of useful info on the website:

> >

> > http://lp.org

> >

> > I'm still new to this, and I have a lot of research to complete.

> Have at it

> > in your own ways. I thought this may help with the discussion about

> our

> > federal government being such a problem. I do believe it is a

> sympton of a

> > huge global issue. One affecting us worldwide. Kinda like one of

> the heads

> > of a huge multi-headed beast. And it filters down to the smallest

of

> us. I

> > know, I got me.

> > ______________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Seems really cruel and harsh to me also, Jim.

Miss Hell,

I wouldn't let these people bother you. This is the ugliest broadside

I've seen here yet. Yelverton's post here is not only abrasive

( " stupidity " , " fools " ), but is also flawed. But I will not waste my

time arguing with someone, who has attacked with such cheap, piercing

words.

Tommy

jim yelverton wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12125

> Miss Hell wrote:

> >

> > Wow -- really harsh of you to make such a statement as below, it

gives

> > me something to think about. I do recall stating I have a lot of

> > research to do. And, as far as my personal activities...I don't

> > believe they are in question, yet. Seems to me a broad

generalization

> > about a group not stuck in cliches and slogans. Funny, what's the

gain

> > or point you wish to accomplish? Did you think there was a personal

> > attack against you in my comments? I find myself TOTALLY turned

away

> > from anything you are advertising as positive. Seems more cruel and

> > harsh and judgemental. NOT at ALL in line with my dreams.

> >

>

> How appropriate that you admit to being blissfully asleep! You really

> are a libertarian!

>

> All I have done is to give you and others on the list who have

expressed

> similar stupidity a bit of data (i.e., reality not horse shit

theory).

> I'll let you know when and where my research gets published. In the

> mean time ... it seems to me that, in this century, the attempts we

have

> seen at communism are a good example of the differences between theory

> and reality. Do we really want to gamble on Libertarianism? I say

no!

> Our political system is already OVERLY influenced by big business. As

> this happens more people become disillusioned with the political

system

> and fewer people vote. The outcome is that only those with something

at

> stake, such as upper middle class stock holders end up being more

likely

> than others to vote. This, in my opinion, is a return to what the

> founding fathers had in mind when they granted Southern slave holders

a

> 3/5ths vote for each slave they held. The main difference is that the

> race distinction has been removed. The second difference being that

> lower classes have been allowed to vote for themselves now that they

> have been disillusioned (look up learned helplessness) and that the

maps

> have been drawn so that their votes DO equal a virtual 3/5ths of those

> of the middle and upper classes. Imagine if you will, the likelihood

of

> voting for the following two scenarios: (1) you live in a So. Carolina

> suburban middle class neighborhood - in order for you to vote, all you

> have to do is get in your shiny new SUV and drive a mile to the local

> elementary school; and (2), you're poor and live in rural So.

Carolina -

> in order for you to vote, you have to drive 40 miles in a beat up old

> car. This is the reality across this country. While the middle class

> sleeps in relative comfort, the poor have barriers erected against

> them. Do you really want to trust the future of the middle class to

> corporations who would just as soon save a buck by using prisoners of

an

> unjust drug war for labor? While the libertarians speak of freedom,

> they naively fail to acknowledge that freedom is not distributed

equally

> (pick up a decent Intro to Sociology text sometime). Worse,

> libertarians ignore instances where money has been used to suppers

> freedom. Further, you fools do not realize that AA, and the movement

> for " spiritualization " of America has its roots in efforts to move

from

> a materialistic society (i.e. labor negotiating for its share of the

> profits) to a " powerless " society (i.e., being happy, no serene, with

> your minimum wage shit job). Do you believe that " self-actualization "

> has nothing to do with money? That's what the " higher powers " (to

> barrow a phrase from Diener) want you to believe. Unfortunately

> what is needed is real campaign finance reform, and it may take a

second

> revolution (of sorts) to achieve that.

>

> As I sit here I wonder why WE have accepted the war on drugs as a

> substitute for the war on poverty. Under the supposed strongest

economy

> in 30-years (according to Wallstreet), in the supposed greatest nation

> on earth, $1.5 Billion is sent to Columbia that could have been spent

> towards training the hard-core unemployed for jobs. Anybody ever read

> Heart of Darkness? Or, is it all Atlas Shrugged in this crowd?

[Guest guest]

Troops, if I may interject here...

I believe that rather than " Atlas Shrugged " or " Heart of Darkness, "

perhaps the appropriate reading matter is " Homage to Catalonia. "

Therein you will learn what happens when people who are battling a

common enemy allow marginal political differences to divide them. I

realize that anarchists disagreed with communists, socialists might not

have been crazy about Marxists, Bolshevics thought Trotskyites were

counterrevolutionaries. As far as syndicalists were concerned, who

knows?

However, to the rest of the world they were all just a bunch of

pretentious leftist bookworms running around in berets and drinking

wine out of goatskins. To the fascists, they were targets for rifle

practice.

The fascists, like our Anonymous adversaries, tended to goose-step in

unison. In the meantime, the romantic idealistic coffeehouse types were

forming circular firing squads or writing stirring protest anthems. The

result: Franco won.

Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin and De Gaulle set aside their differences

to fight Mussolini, Hitler and Tojo. Even the crew of the Enterprise

and the Klingons stopped hating each other momentarily to defeat that

blob-of-light monster that was feeding on their mutual enmity. (Damn!

There goes my metaphorical conceit!) Surely we, of all people, can

remember that we're all brothers and sisters under the skin, united by

our common desire to gouge the eyes out of the 12-Step Mr. Potatohead

and then chop him up and make french fries for the betterment of

humankind. In the immmortal words of Rodney King, " Can't we all just

get along? "

OK, pep talk's over. Let's go steal some horses!

-- Comrade Sordo

[Guest guest]

You're new here aren't you? You want to see some serious rudeness go

way back in the archives and read the veiled threats on my and my wife's

life posted by a loon named . About the worst thing I called your

little miss hell is a libertarian, which is the party she claimed to be

registered under. So Snazy, do you try to be such a stereotypical

thimblewit? Does it take much energy to avoid critical thought? Oh!

better not answer that--might strain something. Lemme guess, your

husband tells you how to vote?

Oh sorry, I figured if you were going to call me rude I might as well go

ahead and actually be rude. By the way did you agree that Hillary is a

PIG? I don't seem to recall protestation to that bit of obnoxiosness.

I wouldn't have posted anything at all, except I got sick of all the

libertarian bullshit that was going unchallenged. About a year ago

there was so much political stuff being posted that Ken started a second

list for the political discussion of the 12-steps. I would suggest that

unless all you libertarian idiots (i.e., cultist followers of Ayn Rand)

want to see the list erupt into a full scale flame war that you save

your political views for other lists.

Snazy wrote:

>

> Miss Hell,

> I dont blame you for leaving this group. I think some people have been

> very rude. I hope that you could stay and learn from their rudeness your

> own empowerment.

> Louree

>

>

>

> <snipped all of the rude and nasty anti-libertarian bologna>

> Name calling is very childish Jim.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Save 50% at MotherNature.com! See site for details.

> http://click./1/766/1/_/4324/_/949173446/

>

> eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Hi Snazy,

I'm not new here and here is an interesting former post by Ken Ragge,

our group moderator, the author of " The Real AA " , co-author of

" Resisting 12-Step Coercion " , and, in my opinion, a really good guy.

Tommy

/group/12-step-free/1439.html?

jim yelverton wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12147

> You're new here aren't you? You want to see some serious rudeness go

> way back in the archives and read the veiled threats on my and my

wife's

> life posted by a loon named . About the worst thing I called

your

> little miss hell is a libertarian, which is the party she claimed to

be

> registered under. So Snazy, do you try to be such a stereotypical

> thimblewit? Does it take much energy to avoid critical thought? Oh!

> better not answer that--might strain something. Lemme guess, your

> husband tells you how to vote?

>

> Oh sorry, I figured if you were going to call me rude I might as well

go

> ahead and actually be rude. By the way did you agree that Hillary is

a

> PIG? I don't seem to recall protestation to that bit of

obnoxiosness.

> I wouldn't have posted anything at all, except I got sick of all the

> libertarian bullshit that was going unchallenged. About a year ago

> there was so much political stuff being posted that Ken started a

second

> list for the political discussion of the 12-steps. I would suggest

that

> unless all you libertarian idiots (i.e., cultist followers of Ayn

Rand)

> want to see the list erupt into a full scale flame war that you save

> your political views for other lists.

>

> Snazy wrote:

> >

> > Miss Hell,

> > I dont blame you for leaving this group. I think some people

have been

> > very rude. I hope that you could stay and learn from their

rudeness your

> > own empowerment.

> > Louree

> >

> >

> >

> > <snipped all of the rude and nasty anti-libertarian bologna>

> > Name calling is very childish Jim.

> >

[Guest guest]

Hey tommy, why don't you sue me? You know, true to libertarian ideals

and all ... just like your doing to the government for making you attend

aa while on the government dole. Dude! Do you realize that you, your

situation, and your political ideology is enough to break any irony

meter now being manufactured?

Tommy Perkins wrote:

>

> Hi Snazy,

>

> I'm not new here and here is an interesting former post by Ken Ragge,

> our group moderator, the author of " The Real AA " , co-author of

> " Resisting 12-Step Coercion " , and, in my opinion, a really good guy.

>

> Tommy

>

> /group/12-step-free/1439.html?

>

> jim yelverton wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12147

> > You're new here aren't you? You want to see some serious rudeness go

> > way back in the archives and read the veiled threats on my and my

> wife's

> > life posted by a loon named . About the worst thing I called

> your

> > little miss hell is a libertarian, which is the party she claimed to

> be

> > registered under. So Snazy, do you try to be such a stereotypical

> > thimblewit? Does it take much energy to avoid critical thought? Oh!

> > better not answer that--might strain something. Lemme guess, your

> > husband tells you how to vote?

> >

> > Oh sorry, I figured if you were going to call me rude I might as well

> go

> > ahead and actually be rude. By the way did you agree that Hillary is

> a

> > PIG? I don't seem to recall protestation to that bit of

> obnoxiosness.

> > I wouldn't have posted anything at all, except I got sick of all the

> > libertarian bullshit that was going unchallenged. About a year ago

> > there was so much political stuff being posted that Ken started a

> second

> > list for the political discussion of the 12-steps. I would suggest

> that

> > unless all you libertarian idiots (i.e., cultist followers of Ayn

> Rand)

> > want to see the list erupt into a full scale flame war that you save

> > your political views for other lists.

> >

> > Snazy wrote:

> > >

> > > Miss Hell,

> > > I dont blame you for leaving this group. I think some people

> have been

> > > very rude. I hope that you could stay and learn from their

> rudeness your

> > > own empowerment.

> > > Louree

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > <snipped all of the rude and nasty anti-libertarian bologna>

> > > Name calling is very childish Jim.

> > >

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> eGroups.com Home: /group/12-step-free/

> - Simplifying group communications

[Guest guest]

Hey Bro,

Don't you know the crux of the biscuit is the apostrophe?

The poodle bites. The poodle chews it.

Jim Hankins wrote:

>

> Troops, if I may interject here...

>

> I believe that rather than " Atlas Shrugged " or " Heart of Darkness, "

> perhaps the appropriate reading matter is " Homage to Catalonia. "

> Therein you will learn what happens when people who are battling a

> common enemy allow marginal political differences to divide them. I

> realize that anarchists disagreed with communists, socialists might not

> have been crazy about Marxists, Bolshevics thought Trotskyites were

> counterrevolutionaries. As far as syndicalists were concerned, who

> knows?

>

> However, to the rest of the world they were all just a bunch of

> pretentious leftist bookworms running around in berets and drinking

> wine out of goatskins. To the fascists, they were targets for rifle

> practice.

>

> The fascists, like our Anonymous adversaries, tended to goose-step in

> unison. In the meantime, the romantic idealistic coffeehouse types were

> forming circular firing squads or writing stirring protest anthems. The

> result: Franco won.

>

> Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin and De Gaulle set aside their differences

> to fight Mussolini, Hitler and Tojo. Even the crew of the Enterprise

> and the Klingons stopped hating each other momentarily to defeat that

> blob-of-light monster that was feeding on their mutual enmity. (Damn!

> There goes my metaphorical conceit!) Surely we, of all people, can

> remember that we're all brothers and sisters under the skin, united by

> our common desire to gouge the eyes out of the 12-Step Mr. Potatohead

> and then chop him up and make french fries for the betterment of

> humankind. In the immmortal words of Rodney King, " Can't we all just

> get along? "

>

> OK, pep talk's over. Let's go steal some horses!

>

> -- Comrade Sordo

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> -- Talk to your group with your own voice!

> -- /VoiceChatPage?listName=12-step-free & m=1

[Guest guest]

Look at the Vietnam

> war...one of the main reasons we got into that was to save Gov.

> Rockefellers rubber plantations and to protect other US interests.

" They "

> told us it was to preserve and protect the people....bull shit....it was

to

> preserve and protect big business!

> ________________________________________

Also DuPont needed a keen place to dump all of its toxic chemical waste. So

the Military department heads (who all got kickbacks and cushy jobs with

DuPont after they retired from the Military) so they came up with this great

idea and called it Agent Orange and said it was for the war effort but in

reality they were just dumping it all over the jungles of VietNam to get rid

of it.

Not only was there a huge human toll, but the ecological damage that we did

to that country was a sin.

A great book to read about VietNam is ABOUT FACE by Ret. Col. Hackworth USA.

It goes into great detail as to why MacNamara and the other Wiz kids elected

to go with the M16 (designed for urban SWAT teams) instead of the M1.

_______________________________________________________

Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite

Visit http://freeworld.excite.com

[Guest guest]

" miss hell " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12112

> Is this right wing - this Libertarian stuff?

>

It's right-wing anarchist - like the AA program.

[Guest guest]

jumbo3-@... wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12114

> In a message dated 1/28/100 10:19:28 PM EST, miss_hell@...

writes:

>

> << Is this right wing - this Libertarian stuff? >>

>

> The political party that calls itself " Libertarian " cannot neatly be

placed

> into " right-wing " or " left-wing " categories, since " Libertarians "

endorse

> decriminalization of narcotics, prostitution.

Both the far left and the far right have such beliefs - argument

perhaps, for why it isnt a good idea.

Pete

[Guest guest]

Sorry Tommy and fellow colonials,

I know that was out of line - I just cant resist a pithy phrase.

It is true however that the american right has a strength and extremity

of view that makes this European's hair curl, and it frightens me.

Pete

" tommy perkins " wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12144

> Gee Pete, that's one of the largest and most diverse populations in

the

> world you're refering to--just because some lady posts political

> opinions you disagree with? We can't all be so lucky as to be born in

> the Kingdom.

>

>

>

> " pete watts " wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=121

04

> > On the basis of these right-wing posts, I have decided that Szasz

has

> > it the wrong way round; it is the existence of mental health that

is a

> > myth in America.

> >

> >

> > Who feels no need to be anonymous

> >

> > " m r " wrote:

> > original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=1

21

> 02

> > > Personally - I am a registered Libertarian. I have been told this

> > country

> > > was built on Libertarian principles but has now been downtrodden

> upon

> > by the

> > > likes of our government today. It seems we have become so

> > over-governed and

> > > this reeks of 12Steppism and cultism.

> > >

> > > This belief I am investigating for myself is that government is

> meant

> > for

> > > one thing only -- to protect me from violence and coercion (force

by

> > threat

> > > of violence). Wouldn't us folks would be so much more inclined to

> > healthy

> > > living if we had the wonderful activities naturally available to

us

> > as ages

> > > ago when this country was founded. Activities that government has

> > snatched

> > > out of our hands and taxed us endlessly and bloodily to shoddily,

> > poorly and

> > > probably really notly provide. For instance -- charities,

schools,

> > > everything -- except for the protection from violence and

coercion.

> > >

> > > I wonder, is it no wonder that I had medicated myself to living

> > zombielike

> > > death out of no place in society to express my beautiful nature.

> > Killed by

> > > a government and system which actually seems to create the

problems

> > it

> > > whines about. It's gonna be an interesting millineum.

> > >

> > > There's lots of useful info on the website:

> > >

> > > http://lp.org

> > >

> > > I'm still new to this, and I have a lot of research to complete.

> > Have at it

> > > in your own ways. I thought this may help with the discussion

about

> > our

> > > federal government being such a problem. I do believe it is a

> > sympton of a

> > > huge global issue. One affecting us worldwide. Kinda like one of

> > the heads

> > > of a huge multi-headed beast. And it filters down to the smallest

> of

> > us. I

> > > know, I got me.

> > > ______________________________________________________

> >

>

[Guest guest]

jim yelverton wrote:

original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12149

> Hey tommy, why don't you sue me? You know, true to libertarian ideals

> and all ... just like your doing to the government for making you

attend

> aa while on the government dole. Dude! Do you realize that you, your

> situation, and your political ideology is enough to break any irony

> meter now being manufactured?

And what were you doing in 1991--sucking your thumb while your sponsor

scolded you? You seem too jittery to be able knit your way through a

meeting.

/group/12-step-free/1897.html?

[Guest guest]

How interesting you should ask. Actually while you were sucking off the

government teat (or suing them for cutting of your milk), I was paying

your salary by running my own business. You, you, big fat libertarian,

you! hehehehe! Ah, fucking with phonies is child's play. hehehehe!

Tommy Perkins wrote:

>

> jim yelverton wrote:

> original article:/group/12-step-free/?start=12149

> > Hey tommy, why don't you sue me? You know, true to libertarian ideals

> > and all ... just like your doing to the government for making you

> attend

> > aa while on the government dole. Dude! Do you realize that you, your

> > situation, and your political ideology is enough to break any irony

> > meter now being manufactured?

>

> And what were you doing in 1991--sucking your thumb while your sponsor

> scolded you? You seem too jittery to be able knit your way through a

> meeting.

>

> /group/12-step-free/1897.html?

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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> visit the OFFICIAL site. Request the Court authorized notice package

> explaining your rights under the class settlement.

> http://click./1/833/1/_/4324/_/949261348/

>

> -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault

> -- /docvault/12-step-free/?m=1