Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 .. You can not link the > person's clinical skills and experience with their degree. Experience comes > throughout time. The statement is unfair to both certified and lessened > paramedics alike. Then maybe pay should be based on experience. Not if they have/don't have a degree. Christy Paramedic Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW > NOTHING > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > WANT > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or truthful. You > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or > managment > is short sighted. What about those licensed paramedics with degrees in > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require > much > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and Physiology, > both related very strongly to EMS. > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the list server the > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get along, in many cases. > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. EMS people are their own > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > act like this? > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list server? > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Excellent point, how many services out their turn their new paramedic loose with a drug box and a license to kill right after they get their patch (certified or licensed)? Or does your service offer a training program that helps to prepare them for the realities of field practice. I feel services that perform some form of field training of all newly certified/hire personnel (regardless of how many years of experience) are already helping this profession move toward actual professional status. Steve Dralle EMT-P San , TX Re: Licensed Paramedics Before we bash L.P.'s those of you who have not been to college have no idea the degree of difficulty involved. Granted, a degree or college level work will not make a paramedic a good paramedic; however, the diligence to work required to complete any college level coursework, including a college based paramedic program speaks well for future success. As for incompetent paramedics and c-collars, that is not a good arguement. Doctors make plenty of mistakes at first. We do need to find direction for this program and ceratinly ensure re- licensing requirements asap. > Thanks I believe you covered nearly all the questions I had when I read that post. > > Mark NREMT-P Lic.P > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > WANT > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or truthful. You > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or managment > is short sighted. What about those licensed paramedics with degrees in > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require much > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and Physiology, > both related very strongly to EMS. > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the list server the > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get along, in many cases. > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. EMS people are their own > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > act like this? > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list server? > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Not exactly an accurate statement. Every licensed paramedic that I personally know was certified before he/she became licensed. Some already had college degrees, some had the required number of college hours, some had to get more college hours, but they all chose to complete the licensing process. Each of them had been a certified paramedic for several years, some for many years--sounds like street experience to me. Even if you are referring only to brand new paramedics, your statement isn't always valid. Many brand new paramedics, licensed or certified, are already street-experienced basics or intermediates before becoming paramedics. If you want your opinion/argument to be accepted and respected, you need to make valid points instead of presenting opinion as fact. One more point--in my opinion, a degree in management would probably be a good thing for a paramedic who wants to make a career of EMS and move up the ladder to management or even ownership. Maxine Pate Re: Licensed Paramedics > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY WANT > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > MAKE ANY SENSE > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Christy, In every service I am familiar with, pay is based on experience. The discussion here is for two medics of equal experience, one certified and the other licensed. A certified medic and a licensed medic, both fresh out of school and starting work for the same service at the same time, the LP would be paid more because of the license. As each acquires more experience, and all things remaining equal, each will begin to earn more money,. But since the LP started at a higher wage, (s)he will always be earning more than the other guy. It is that simple. Regards, Donn Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW > > NOTHING > > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > > WANT > > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR > > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or truthful. > You > > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or > > managment > > is short sighted. What about those licensed paramedics with degrees in > > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require > > much > > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and Physiology, > > both related very strongly to EMS. > > > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the list server the > > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get along, in many cases. > > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. EMS people are their > own > > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > > act like this? > > > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list > server? > > > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Again, you have made a statement that is not completely accurate. I am one of the ones who found fault with your earlier statement and I posted a response stating my opinion. I am a certified paramedic. I have no plans to become a licensed paramedic, but if someone else wants to, more power to them. It doesn't take anything away from me or diminish my abilities or knowledge. It does add a new level/category/whatever you want to call it to EMS. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. As far as pay is concerned, won't that be up to the department doing the hiring? Some departments will want to (and be able to) pay more based on a person being licensed. Some departments may not want to (or may not be able to) pay more. Did it occur to you that, in some departments, a seasoned certified paramedic with years of experience may actually earn more than a brand new licensed paramedic with no experience. Maxine Pate, Certified Paramedic and proud of it, with no reason ro resent someone who wants to achieve more In a message dated 5/22/02 7:56:27 PM Central Daylight Time, emti911@... writes: > It seems the only ones complaining are the LIC PARAMEDICS....WELL I, AM, NEW > > PARAMEDICS COMING OUT OF THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LIC-P.....THAT IS WHAT > I > HAVE A PROBLEM WITH....A NEW PARAMEDIC THAT STARTS AT SOME SERVICES STRAIT > OUT OF SCHOOL WILL MAKE MORE PER YEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LIC...THAN THAT > OF > A CERT PARAMEDIC....OF 12 YEARS...THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT....PAY SHOULD BE > BASED ON EXPERIENCE NOT IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE......THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE > FOR > EXPERIENCE........ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Again, you have made a statement that is not completely accurate. I am one of the ones who found fault with your earlier statement and I posted a response stating my opinion. I am a certified paramedic. I have no plans to become a licensed paramedic, but if someone else wants to, more power to them. It doesn't take anything away from me or diminish my abilities or knowledge. It does add a new level/category/whatever you want to call it to EMS. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. As far as pay is concerned, won't that be up to the department doing the hiring? Some departments will want to (and be able to) pay more based on a person being licensed. Some departments may not want to (or may not be able to) pay more. Did it occur to you that, in some departments, a seasoned certified paramedic with years of experience may actually earn more than a brand new licensed paramedic with no experience. Maxine Pate, Certified Paramedic and proud of it, with no reason ro resent someone who wants to achieve more In a message dated 5/22/02 7:56:27 PM Central Daylight Time, emti911@... writes: > It seems the only ones complaining are the LIC PARAMEDICS....WELL I, AM, NEW > > PARAMEDICS COMING OUT OF THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LIC-P.....THAT IS WHAT > I > HAVE A PROBLEM WITH....A NEW PARAMEDIC THAT STARTS AT SOME SERVICES STRAIT > OUT OF SCHOOL WILL MAKE MORE PER YEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LIC...THAN THAT > OF > A CERT PARAMEDIC....OF 12 YEARS...THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT....PAY SHOULD BE > BASED ON EXPERIENCE NOT IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE......THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE > FOR > EXPERIENCE........ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Also, keep in mind that many other professions do this same thing including many police and fire departments. It is called incentive pay for higher education. In many larger cities, it is a pretty good chunk of change. Chambers, LP Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW > > > NOTHING > > > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT > THEY > > > > WANT > > > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR > > > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or truthful. > > You > > > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > > > > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or > > > managment > > > is short sighted. What about those licensed paramedics with degrees in > > > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require > > > much > > > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and > Physiology, > > > both related very strongly to EMS. > > > > > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the list server > the > > > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get along, in many > cases. > > > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. EMS people are their > > own > > > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if > we > > > act like this? > > > > > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list > > server? > > > > > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 This is a good example of how general education, or at least application of that education to communications, can make a difference. I don't know this person (no one does, he or she's hiding). But who has a good impression of them from this post? Poorly written, grammatically incorrect, and beligerent. Could a PhD have written it? Maybe. But my first impression, and probably nearly everyone's here, that this person is ignorant, lacking in education. This from the lack of writing and communication skills. Could this person start a GREAT I.V., or perform a megacode flawlessly? Maybe. Would you knowingly let them try it on you? From the impression we get, I know my feeling is " this person can't even write a good sentence and commiunicate professionally. What can their skills be like? " . So, we are judged by our percieved level of knowledge and education. Like it or not. What makes a good medic? Same as a good physician. EDUCATION (would anyone trust a doc with only a high school diploma?) and EXPERIENCE (do YOU want to be operated on by the newest Doc on the block??). It takes both. =Steve= emti911@... wrote: > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY WANT > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > MAKE ANY SENSE > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 This is a good example of how general education, or at least application of that education to communications, can make a difference. I don't know this person (no one does, he or she's hiding). But who has a good impression of them from this post? Poorly written, grammatically incorrect, and beligerent. Could a PhD have written it? Maybe. But my first impression, and probably nearly everyone's here, that this person is ignorant, lacking in education. This from the lack of writing and communication skills. Could this person start a GREAT I.V., or perform a megacode flawlessly? Maybe. Would you knowingly let them try it on you? From the impression we get, I know my feeling is " this person can't even write a good sentence and commiunicate professionally. What can their skills be like? " . So, we are judged by our percieved level of knowledge and education. Like it or not. What makes a good medic? Same as a good physician. EDUCATION (would anyone trust a doc with only a high school diploma?) and EXPERIENCE (do YOU want to be operated on by the newest Doc on the block??). It takes both. =Steve= emti911@... wrote: > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY WANT > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > MAKE ANY SENSE > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 So go back to school and get a degree. Then you can have the same benefits. Regards, Donn Re: Licensed Paramedics > It seems the only ones complaining are the LIC PARAMEDICS....WELL I, AM, NEW > PARAMEDICS COMING OUT OF THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LIC-P.....THAT IS WHAT I > HAVE A PROBLEM WITH....A NEW PARAMEDIC THAT STARTS AT SOME SERVICES STRAIT > OUT OF SCHOOL WILL MAKE MORE PER YEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LIC...THAN THAT OF > A CERT PARAMEDIC....OF 12 YEARS...THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT....PAY SHOULD BE > BASED ON EXPERIENCE NOT IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE......THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR > EXPERIENCE........ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 I agree absolutely, but can carry it farther: Say I am an ED doc working a new ED for the first time and I get a medical control call that says, " The eyes are PEARL (instead of the pupils are equal, round, and reactive to light). " Doesn't exactly paint a picture of careful assessment. Or, you get a report, " The patient is alert and orientated times 4. " You attend orientation, you become oriented. The patient is alert and oriented. Other misnomers include: " The patient was defibulated times 3 " or " he sustained a traumatic injury to his leg. " Is there any way to sustain a non-traumatic injury? In the south, we already sound unsophisticated enough without raping the Queen's english. BEB Re: Licensed Paramedics > This is a good example of how general education, or at least application of that > education to communications, can make a difference. I don't know this person (no > one does, he or she's hiding). But who has a good impression of them from this > post? Poorly written, grammatically incorrect, and beligerent. Could a PhD have > written it? Maybe. But my first impression, and probably nearly everyone's > here, that this person is ignorant, lacking in education. This from the lack of > writing and communication skills. Could this person start a GREAT I.V., or > perform a megacode flawlessly? Maybe. Would you knowingly let them try it on > you? From the impression we get, I know my feeling is " this person can't even > write a good sentence and commiunicate professionally. What can their skills be > like? " . > > So, we are judged by our percieved level of knowledge and education. Like it or > not. > > What makes a good medic? Same as a good physician. EDUCATION (would anyone > trust a doc with only a high school diploma?) and EXPERIENCE (do YOU want to be > operated on by the newest Doc on the block??). It takes both. > > =Steve= > > emti911@... wrote: > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY WANT > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Since he won't respond, I'll prompt him to... If I'm correct, emti911's name is Gus. And I believe that he's not an EMT-I, but I can't be sure of that because I don't know his last name and haven't seen him (if it's him) in well over a year. If I'm right and it's Gus, those with a history at Cypress Creek EMS know him very, very well. If I'm not, he'll/she'll identify himself/herself. Mike > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT > ....DON'T KNOW > > NOTHING MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET > EXPERIENCE AND FOR > > THAT THEY WANT TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE > IN BIOLOGY > > OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or > truthful. You lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in > biology or managment is short sighted. What about those > licensed paramedics with degrees in Emergency Medical > Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require much > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and > Physiology, both related very strongly to EMS. > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the > list server the past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable > to get along, in many cases. EMS people cannot agree on > things, in many cases. EMS people are their own worst enemy. > How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > act like this? > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on > the list server? > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Since he won't respond, I'll prompt him to... If I'm correct, emti911's name is Gus. And I believe that he's not an EMT-I, but I can't be sure of that because I don't know his last name and haven't seen him (if it's him) in well over a year. If I'm right and it's Gus, those with a history at Cypress Creek EMS know him very, very well. If I'm not, he'll/she'll identify himself/herself. Mike > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT > ....DON'T KNOW > > NOTHING MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET > EXPERIENCE AND FOR > > THAT THEY WANT TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE > IN BIOLOGY > > OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or > truthful. You lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in > biology or managment is short sighted. What about those > licensed paramedics with degrees in Emergency Medical > Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require much > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and > Physiology, both related very strongly to EMS. > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the > list server the past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable > to get along, in many cases. EMS people cannot agree on > things, in many cases. EMS people are their own worst enemy. > How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > act like this? > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on > the list server? > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 I think the pay difference there is much like a " military service bonus. " Services are willing to count part of a colelge education towards experience, knowing that the " learning curve " is shorter for those already used to a " learning mode. " Licensed Paramedics are not smarter than their certified counterparts, and I don't know of any services that differentiate protocols based on " licensed vs. certified. " Licensed medics don't start IV's better, and they're not automatically nicer to patients or more awake for the 18th call of the shift at 3AM. They do, however, have a significant difference (usually) in education background than a certified medic (unless that medic has just chosen not to license, which many have/n't). Licesnure, on the other hand, identifies Paramedics as a FIELD as an educated group of practitioners. Supporting licensure movements actually brings up the standard for ALL paramedics, licensed or not. Although I do support the idea that in the near future the only way to become a " new " paramedic is to meet licensure requirements (no more certified track), I do not now nor will I ever support requiring currently certified paramedics to become licensed - if they want to recertify, by all means let them. Nobody should be forced out, and there's a lot of great certified medics out there. To date, I don't think anyone has suggested this, I just wanted to get in front of the storm on this point. Mike > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > . You can not link the > > person's clinical skills and experience with their degree. > Experience > comes > > throughout time. The statement is unfair to both certified and > > lessened paramedics alike. > > > Then maybe pay should be based on experience. > Not if they have/don't have a degree. > Christy > Paramedic > > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT > ....DON'T KNOW > > NOTHING > > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE > AND FOR THAT > > > THEY WANT TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN > BIOLOGY OR > > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable > or truthful. > You > > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or > > managment is short sighted. What about those licensed > paramedics with > > degrees in Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and > other fields > > which require much > > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy > and Physiology, > > both related very strongly to EMS. > > > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the > list server > > the past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get > along, in many > > cases. EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. > EMS people > > are their > own > > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a > profession > > if we act like this? > > > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list > server? > > > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 I think the pay difference there is much like a " military service bonus. " Services are willing to count part of a colelge education towards experience, knowing that the " learning curve " is shorter for those already used to a " learning mode. " Licensed Paramedics are not smarter than their certified counterparts, and I don't know of any services that differentiate protocols based on " licensed vs. certified. " Licensed medics don't start IV's better, and they're not automatically nicer to patients or more awake for the 18th call of the shift at 3AM. They do, however, have a significant difference (usually) in education background than a certified medic (unless that medic has just chosen not to license, which many have/n't). Licesnure, on the other hand, identifies Paramedics as a FIELD as an educated group of practitioners. Supporting licensure movements actually brings up the standard for ALL paramedics, licensed or not. Although I do support the idea that in the near future the only way to become a " new " paramedic is to meet licensure requirements (no more certified track), I do not now nor will I ever support requiring currently certified paramedics to become licensed - if they want to recertify, by all means let them. Nobody should be forced out, and there's a lot of great certified medics out there. To date, I don't think anyone has suggested this, I just wanted to get in front of the storm on this point. Mike > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > . You can not link the > > person's clinical skills and experience with their degree. > Experience > comes > > throughout time. The statement is unfair to both certified and > > lessened paramedics alike. > > > Then maybe pay should be based on experience. > Not if they have/don't have a degree. > Christy > Paramedic > > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT > ....DON'T KNOW > > NOTHING > > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE > AND FOR THAT > > > THEY WANT TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN > BIOLOGY OR > > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable > or truthful. > You > > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or > > managment is short sighted. What about those licensed > paramedics with > > degrees in Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and > other fields > > which require much > > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy > and Physiology, > > both related very strongly to EMS. > > > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the > list server > > the past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get > along, in many > > cases. EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. > EMS people > > are their > own > > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a > profession > > if we act like this? > > > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list > server? > > > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 You just can't fix stupid. It seems the only ones complaining are the LIC PARAMEDICS....WELL I, AM, NEW PARAMEDICS COMING OUT OF THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LIC-P.....THAT IS WHAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH....A NEW PARAMEDIC THAT STARTS AT SOME SERVICES STRAIT OUT OF SCHOOL WILL MAKE MORE PER YEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LIC...THAN THAT OF A CERT PARAMEDIC....OF 12 YEARS...THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT....PAY SHOULD BE BASED ON EXPERIENCE NOT IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE......THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EXPERIENCE........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Dear Mr. Whomever You Are, Since we're beating a dead horse..... I take serious offense to your post. First of all, you are YELLING at us. Please stop! Second , please learn to type complete sentences and leave out the extra commas and periods. Lastly, I am a Licensed Paramedic, not the best, but by far not the worst. Are there better EMT's out there than me? I " don't know nothing " about that. How do you suggest we judge this? Patient care, compassion, adhering to protocols, ambulance driving ability, or possibly ability no-ride patients? Do I know the basics? I believe so. You suggest my degree is not worth anything? Well sir, my degree is from an accredited college and is in Emergency Medical Technology. I was an EMT/P for a number of years having gone through the " old " certificate program. My instructor (Gene Gandy) had the foresight to tell us that licensure was coming down the road, and the paramedic of the future would be best served with a degree. I heeded his advice, and got my degree, while working full time as a paramedic. I don't have " street experience " ? Maybe Dr. Bledsoe or others can explain to me why I have very vivid and amazing dreams about EMS calls. Before you make generalized statements, please check your ego at the door! Statements like yours are what is keeping EMT's and Paramedics from uniting. Now, go get your EMT/P, a degree in EMS, and become an LP. Join EMSAT, and join the rest of us that are working for a better EMS community. Highly offended in Tyler, E. Tate, AAS-EMS, LP Tyler, Texas (Leaping down from my soapbox!) --- emti911@... wrote: > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED > OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET > EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY WANT > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN > BIOLOGY OR MANAGMENT....DON'T > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== " The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great - and for destroying those who destroy the earth. " Revelation 11:18 __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2002 Report Share Posted May 22, 2002 Christy et al, Unfortunately, the whole world pays more money to people with degrees. Take a look at http://www.acinet.org/acinet/oview5.htm?Level=Overall & from=National & stfips=undef\ ined & soccode=undefined This is a list of 25 occupations with the highest median hourly wages in 2000. You'll notice all of the jobs listed require a degree of some sort, and most require and master's or doctorate. Like it or not, we can't change it. Now, look at http://www.acinet.org/acinet/occ_rep.htm?soccode=292041 & from=undefined & Level=und\ efined & keyword=undefined & stfips=48 & x=30 & y=12 and decide if those wages are sufficient for you? If not, what will you do to change it? E. Tate, LP Tyler, Texas --- Christy Petty wrote: > . You can not link the > > person's clinical skills and experience with their > degree. Experience > comes > > throughout time. The statement is unfair to both > certified and lessened > > paramedics alike. > > > Then maybe pay should be based on experience. > Not if they have/don't have a degree. > Christy > Paramedic > > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING > TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW > > NOTHING > > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET > EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > > WANT > > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN > BIOLOGY OR > > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not > acceptable or truthful. > You > > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a > degree in biology or > > managment > > is short sighted. What about those licensed > paramedics with degrees in > > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and > other fields which require > > much > > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are > Anatomy and Physiology, > > both related very strongly to EMS. > > > > This is exactly what people have been talking > about on the list server the > > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to > get along, in many cases. > > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. > EMS people are their > own > > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be > recognized as a profession if we > > act like this? > > > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your > post on the list > server? > > > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 Com'on, this is the internet... just from the history of internet etiquette, the way the post was written is acceptable. I don't have a degree, but I do have long history of business and management classes [from previous career]. Trust me, anyone from the server that knows me will tell you that I am a POWERFUL speaker... and from time to time you will see, I will not have a perfect post. It is just my nature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 That is not always the truth... at our service, licensed or certified, all paramedics start with base salary... it is merit and COL increases that make the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 I am not too sure about that... phasing out any level of certification in texas will DIMINISH the ability to educate those who are " geographically " challenged. Hey, we still have ECA, and they have been talking about phasing that out since i returned to TX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 While we're on the subject on Lic-Ps, I've heard a nasty rumor that with the A & P requirements before EMT-P class, TDH is working towards phasing out certified paramedics over the next few years and eventually, the only paramedics will be licensed. I doubt this but am wondering the validity of it. Can anyone out there verify this? Andy Wheeler, EMT-P > > . You can not link the > > > person's clinical skills and experience with their > > degree. Experience > > comes > > > throughout time. The statement is unfair to both > > certified and lessened > > > paramedics alike. > > > > > > Then maybe pay should be based on experience. > > Not if they have/don't have a degree. > > Christy > > Paramedic > > > > Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING > > TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW > > > NOTHING > > > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET > > EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > > > WANT > > > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN > > BIOLOGY OR > > > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not > > acceptable or truthful. > > You > > > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > > > > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a > > degree in biology or > > > managment > > > is short sighted. What about those licensed > > paramedics with degrees in > > > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and > > other fields which require > > > much > > > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are > > Anatomy and Physiology, > > > both related very strongly to EMS. > > > > > > This is exactly what people have been talking > > about on the list server the > > > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to > > get along, in many cases. > > > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. > > EMS people are their > > own > > > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be > > recognized as a profession if we > > > act like this? > > > > > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your > > post on the list > > server? > > > > > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 Your statement, and 's reply, speak for themselves in one sense. In reading many, many, many (ad nauseum) posts on this web, I have noted that LP's tend to be more articulate in commiting their thoughts to writing. This suggests that LP's with degrees (or some college preparation) have an enhanced ability to read, write, speak, punctuate, and spell the language we communicate in. A benefit of formal education? Yup. New certified P's may have no more experience than do new LP's. The point, however, is that experience plus a good fundamental education can be one hell of a combination, regardless of how you make a living. When I became a P in the '70's, there were no degree programs for EMS professionals. I fraternity partied my way through 5 years of college in the '60's and finally earned a degree in 1993. It's embarassing to admit this, but I'm doing so in hopes that some of you will belly up to the bar and get some formal training in English grammar, math, chemistry, history and public speaking. There are still a bunch of baby boomer old farts like me in EMS who place a great deal of importance on a job candidate's ability to read, write and speak in an articulate fashion, as well as perform fundamental math calculations without a cheat sheet or calculator. Some of us make hiring and promotional decisions. Get it? Jay Garner, AAS, LP Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW NOTHING > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > WANT > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or truthful. You > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or managment > is short sighted. What about those licensed paramedics with degrees in > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require much > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and Physiology, > both related very strongly to EMS. > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the list server the > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get along, in many cases. > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. EMS people are their own > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > act like this? > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list server? > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 Nor is there any substitute for a sound fundemantal formal education, no matter when or how you achieve it. Jay Garner Re: Licensed Paramedics > It seems the only ones complaining are the LIC PARAMEDICS....WELL I, AM, NEW > PARAMEDICS COMING OUT OF THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LIC-P.....THAT IS WHAT I > HAVE A PROBLEM WITH....A NEW PARAMEDIC THAT STARTS AT SOME SERVICES STRAIT > OUT OF SCHOOL WILL MAKE MORE PER YEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A LIC...THAN THAT OF > A CERT PARAMEDIC....OF 12 YEARS...THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT....PAY SHOULD BE > BASED ON EXPERIENCE NOT IF YOU HAVE A DEGREE......THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR > EXPERIENCE........ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 23, 2002 Report Share Posted May 23, 2002 To all, Just a thought in the middle of this discussion. I agree that Licensure should be about education in the field in which you are licensed. But along with the license comes responsibility to one's profession and the individuals we serve. That is what nursing embraced at an early stage. We need to recognize that we have a responsibility to improve our profession. That covers a lot of territory from the political to the prosaic. We have made a start with this discussion. Where do we go from here? By the way, my husband thinks the chili cookoff and beer bust is a good idea to break down the barriers we have established around our personal turfs. When and where guys? Jeanne E. Amis, RN, LP Education Director Marfa City/County EMS Re: Licensed Paramedics > > > > > > AMEN.....THE LIC PARAMEDICS THAT ARE BEING TURNED OUT ....DON'T KNOW > NOTHING > > MORE THAT THE BASICS,,,,THEY HAVE NO STREET EXPERIENCE AND FOR THAT THEY > > WANT > > TO PAY THEM MORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DEGREE IN BIOLOGY OR > > MANAGMENT....DON'T > > MAKE ANY SENSE > > > > > > > > > Blanket statements like you made above are not acceptable or truthful. You > lump all licensed paramedics into one group. > > Your statement that licensed paramedics have a degree in biology or > managment > is short sighted. What about those licensed paramedics with degrees in > Emergency Medical Service, Law, Medicine, and other fields which require > much > education. By the way, Biology 2401 and 2402 are Anatomy and Physiology, > both related very strongly to EMS. > > This is exactly what people have been talking about on the list server the > past couple of weeks. EMS people are unable to get along, in many cases. > EMS people cannot agree on things, in many cases. EMS people are their own > worst enemy. How can we expect EMS to be recognized as a profession if we > act like this? > > Oh, by the way, do you have a name to go with your post on the list server? > > , Licensed Paramedic > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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