Re: I am so glad I am not alone

[Guest guest]

,

For several years I tried to ward off the consequences of the actions of my

mentally ill daughter. At that time I thought it was easier. The bottom line

is: IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BE RESPONSIBLE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE.

She lost her house, actually two of them, her kids ,two cars, her job, and went

through a ton of money (about $50,00). She wrote bad checks, forged on my

account, and defrauded other people including my pastor.

Finally the light came on. She can sink or swim. It took almost 10 years but

now she lives on a small disability check totally on her own. She takes a ton

of meds and goes to AA. I give no advice, no money and only listen to her

complaints if she is calm and sober.

Detachment works, both mental and financial. It is healthier for your child and

for you. Good luck in reaching that point where you are comfortable with that.

dben8

wrote:

Hi, I really thought I was the only one with this problem! I have a 20 year old

daughter that has this and other than my therapist, no one in the family will

admit she is sick. They all say she is either acting out or spoiled.

When she went back to school she got a living loan co- signed by my aunt and

guess who has paid it ever since? She spent $4000 in less than 6 weeks, I paid

for everything since, rent, groceries, spending money anything she needed, she

wrote a check and called for me to put in back, naturally I did, I didn't want

her writing bad checks.

Humphrey

[Guest guest]

Dear dben8

I read your post and realize this is exactly how my daughter will probably end

up. I am ready to detach now as over the past few months I have come to the

realization thjat i doubt that I even love her any longer. When she prevented

me from seeing my grandsons for three months, went to counseling with me and

told the nit wit counselor that she wanted NO relationship with me and doesn't

want the baby to have a relationship with me, well, the light finally came on.

I am done with her too.

When she goes down, and there is no one to give a damn about what happens to

her, she can call upon her deadbeat convict husband or his family because mine

wants nothing else to do with her either. Same situation as your

daughter---using family members credit and then not paying bills and ruining

their credit. If she EVER does it to me or my son , we WILL press charges, no

question about that !!!!!!!!!!!

Her latest slap in my face is that she never returns a phone call. In

counseling, she accused me of being overbearing because a couple of years a go,

when she lived 25 miles away, she would call me, then say she had to go, but

would call me back in a few minutes. A couple of hours would go by and she

wouldn't call, so I would call her and get no answer. Because she has a heart

defect, I would become " codependently " worried and would drive out to see if she

was ok, and she would answer the door all annoyed with me. My son says it was

always a set up to make me look like a fool. I think he was right.

So, now if she doesn't answer, i don't bother going to her house, I assume it is

all part of her game. I leave a message--if she gets it fine, if she doesn't

get it, well, too bad. The calls are usaually in reference to my grandsons. I

really have nothing else to say to her. Although, I did call her to see if I

could show one of her listings to one of my real estate clients, left a message.

By the time she got back to me, I had told my client the agent wasn't getting

back to me and I showed them something else. Her loss. She'll never make it in

real estate or anything else as long as she stays with this loser husband of

hers.

I feel like my daughter is dead. I don't know or like, let alone love this

stranger who is inhabiting my daughter's body. My prayers are not answered so I

really have no faith in a God who has done such a thing in my life. I am

feeling a bit sorry for myself. I lived my life for thjis girl and to have her

spit in my face on a regular basis, well it is more than I can deal with.

Jean

Re: I am so glad I am not alone

,

For several years I tried to ward off the consequences of the actions of my

mentally ill daughter. At that time I thought it was easier. The bottom line

is: IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BE RESPONSIBLE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE.

She lost her house, actually two of them, her kids ,two cars, her job, and went

through a ton of money (about $50,00). She wrote bad checks, forged on my

account, and defrauded other people including my pastor.

Finally the light came on. She can sink or swim. It took almost 10 years but

now she lives on a small disability check totally on her own. She takes a ton

of meds and goes to AA. I give no advice, no money and only listen to her

complaints if she is calm and sober.

Detachment works, both mental and financial. It is healthier for your child and

for you. Good luck in reaching that point where you are comfortable with that.

dben8

wrote:

Hi, I really thought I was the only one with this problem! I have a 20 year old

daughter that has this and other than my therapist, no one in the family will

admit she is sick. They all say she is either acting out or spoiled.

When she went back to school she got a living loan co- signed by my aunt and

guess who has paid it ever since? She spent $4000 in less than 6 weeks, I paid

for everything since, rent, groceries, spending money anything she needed, she

wrote a check and called for me to put in back, naturally I did, I didn't want

her writing bad checks.

Humphrey

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry you are feeling this way.

It's nothing you did. You were being a normal, loving mom. If she is mentally

ill, she cannot help all her behaviors. Please try not to take it personally.

No, they are not the daughters we expected. But then not all things work out

the way we planned.

Maybe lots of time away will be the answer.

Unfortunately, the way to your grandchildren is through your daughter.

My husband always reminds me to view Dena compassionately. I step back, almost

pretend she's someone else's daughter, do a lot of observation and try to listen

to her (she has always said I'm a terrible listener). At times, she does seem

like a stranger. My heart goes out to her.

Carol

--------- Re: I am so glad I am not alone

>

>

> ,

>

> For several years I tried to ward off the consequences of the actions of my

> mentally ill daughter. At that time I thought it was easier. The bottom line

> is: IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BE RESPONSIBLE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE.

>

> She lost her house, actually two of them, her kids ,two cars, her job, and

went

> through a ton of money (about $50,00). She wrote bad checks, forged on my

> account, and defrauded other people including my pastor.

>

> Finally the light came on. She can sink or swim. It took almost 10 years but

> now she lives on a small disability check totally on her own. She takes a ton

> of meds and goes to AA. I give no advice, no money and only listen to her

> complaints if she is calm and sober.

>

> Detachment works, both mental and financial. It is healthier for your child

and

> for you. Good luck in reaching that point where you are comfortable with that.

>

> dben8

>

> wrote:

>

> Hi, I really thought I was the only one with this problem! I have a 20 year

old

> daughter that has this and other than my therapist, no one in the family will

> admit she is sick. They all say she is either acting out or spoiled.

>

> When she went back to school she got a living loan co- signed by my aunt and

> guess who has paid it ever since? She spent $4000 in less than 6 weeks, I paid

> for everything since, rent, groceries, spending money anything she needed, she

> wrote a check and called for me to put in back, naturally I did, I didn't want

> her writing bad checks.

> Humphrey

>

>

[Guest guest]

You said that you are ready to detach, good for you. It takes a VERY long time

to detach with love or at least it did for me. I felt guilty and angry for ever

so long, way too long. Right now I probably have the best relationship with my

older daughter that I have had in almost 15 years. I try not to be judgmental

and I offer zero advice. There are probably times when she thinks that I do not

care but I can not buy into the craziness. I can only deal with it when I keep

my distance, both physically and emotionally.

I can honestly say at this point that I LOVE my daughter but there are times I

don't like her very much.

This is my older daughter who has a dual diagnosis and then there is my younger

one who is bi-polar with BP tendencies. The roller coaster is cruising along on

a level spot at this moment. I pray that it stays that way for a while and that

when it goes the other way that God will grant me the strength to deal with it.

dben8

cascorsam@... wrote:

Dear dben8

I am done with her too.

When she goes down, and there is no one to give a damn about what happens to

her, she can call upon her deadbeat convict husband or his family because mine

wants nothing else to

I feel like my daughter is dead. I don't know or like, let alone love this

stranger who is inhabiting my daughter's body. My prayers are not answered so I

really have no faith in a God who has done such a thing in my life. I am

feeling a bit sorry for myself. I lived my life for this girl and to have her

spit in my face on a regular basis, well it is more than I can deal with.

Jean

---------------------------------

Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page

[Guest guest]

Carol

I would love to have a relationship of some sort with my daughter, bizarre

though she is, but she does nothing but give me the silent treatment. I know for

a fact she always has her cell phone with her, yet whenever I call, she does not

answer it. My grandsons say they hear it ringing so she can see my number and

just doesn't answer it. However a couple of weeks agao, she asked me if she

could have some of my " buyers " (perspective clients who call on my listings,

but don't want to see that particular house). I told her I didn't have any.

Why on earth woukld I give her anything when she cannot even answer a call from

me? Does she have rocks in her self centered, selfish, hurtful head?

I wanted to take the boys to the beach today. I have them from noon till 8 but

I couldn't get her to answer the phone so I couls have them bring their suits.

I am not allowed in her house----the house i gave her money to pay the mortgage

on so it wouldn't be foreclosed on last year after she blew all her money on her

deadbeat husband in las Vegas.

I am so angry if i don't get counseling soon i am going to burst. The hatred I

feel toward her for her treatment of me is just consuming me. I think i am

beyond it and then it drowns me again. I just don't understand how she can

treat me the way she does when i am the only one who has always been there for

her.

Jean

Re: I am so glad I am not alone

I'm sorry you are feeling this way.

It's nothing you did. You were being a normal, loving mom. If she is mentally

ill, she cannot help all her behaviors. Please try not to take it personally.

No, they are not the daughters we expected. But then not all things work out

the way we planned.

Maybe lots of time away will be the answer.

Unfortunately, the way to your grandchildren is through your daughter.

My husband always reminds me to view Dena compassionately. I step back, almost

pretend she's someone else's daughter, do a lot of observation and try to listen

to her (she has always said I'm a terrible listener). At times, she does seem

like a stranger. My heart goes out to her.

Carol

--------- Re: I am so glad I am not alone

>

>

> ,

>

> For several years I tried to ward off the consequences of the actions of my

> mentally ill daughter. At that time I thought it was easier. The bottom line

> is: IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BE RESPONSIBLE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE.

>

> She lost her house, actually two of them, her kids ,two cars, her job, and

went

> through a ton of money (about $50,00). She wrote bad checks, forged on my

> account, and defrauded other people including my pastor.

>

> Finally the light came on. She can sink or swim. It took almost 10 years but

> now she lives on a small disability check totally on her own. She takes a ton

> of meds and goes to AA. I give no advice, no money and only listen to her

> complaints if she is calm and sober.

>

> Detachment works, both mental and financial. It is healthier for your child

and

> for you. Good luck in reaching that point where you are comfortable with that.

>

> dben8

>

> wrote:

>

> Hi, I really thought I was the only one with this problem! I have a 20 year

old

> daughter that has this and other than my therapist, no one in the family will

> admit she is sick. They all say she is either acting out or spoiled.

>

> When she went back to school she got a living loan co- signed by my aunt and

> guess who has paid it ever since? She spent $4000 in less than 6 weeks, I paid

> for everything since, rent, groceries, spending money anything she needed, she

> wrote a check and called for me to put in back, naturally I did, I didn't want

> her writing bad checks.

> Humphrey

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jean

I am sorry for the pain, hurt and anger you feel re: . Hopefully you

can find a counselor in your area who sees past your dtr's lies and helps

you find your equilibrium in a very difficult situation.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 1:34 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: I am so glad I am not alone

Carol

I would love to have a relationship of some sort with my daughter, bizarre

though she is, but she does nothing but give me the silent treatment. I know

for a fact she always has her cell phone with her, yet whenever I call, she

does not answer it. My grandsons say they hear it ringing so she can see my

number and just doesn't answer it. However a couple of weeks agao, she

asked me if she could have some of my " buyers " (perspective clients who

call on my listings, but don't want to see that particular house). I told

her I didn't have any. Why on earth woukld I give her anything when she

cannot even answer a call from me? Does she have rocks in her self

centered, selfish, hurtful head?

I wanted to take the boys to the beach today. I have them from noon till 8

but I couldn't get her to answer the phone so I couls have them bring their

suits. I am not allowed in her house----the house i gave her money to pay

the mortgage on so it wouldn't be foreclosed on last year after she blew all

her money on her deadbeat husband in las Vegas.

I am so angry if i don't get counseling soon i am going to burst. The

hatred I feel toward her for her treatment of me is just consuming me. I

think i am beyond it and then it drowns me again. I just don't understand

how she can treat me the way she does when i am the only one who has always

been there for her.

Jean

Re: I am so glad I am not alone

I'm sorry you are feeling this way.

It's nothing you did. You were being a normal, loving mom. If she is

mentally

ill, she cannot help all her behaviors. Please try not to take it

personally.

No, they are not the daughters we expected. But then not all things work

out

the way we planned.

Maybe lots of time away will be the answer.

Unfortunately, the way to your grandchildren is through your daughter.

My husband always reminds me to view Dena compassionately. I step back,

almost

pretend she's someone else's daughter, do a lot of observation and try to

listen

to her (she has always said I'm a terrible listener). At times, she does

seem

like a stranger. My heart goes out to her.

Carol

--------- Re: I am so glad I am not alone

>

>

> ,

>

> For several years I tried to ward off the consequences of the actions of

my

> mentally ill daughter. At that time I thought it was easier. The bottom

line

> is: IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BE RESPONSIBLE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE.

>

> She lost her house, actually two of them, her kids ,two cars, her job, and

went

> through a ton of money (about $50,00). She wrote bad checks, forged on my

> account, and defrauded other people including my pastor.

>

> Finally the light came on. She can sink or swim. It took almost 10 years

but

> now she lives on a small disability check totally on her own. She takes a

ton

> of meds and goes to AA. I give no advice, no money and only listen to her

> complaints if she is calm and sober.

>

> Detachment works, both mental and financial. It is healthier for your

child

and

> for you. Good luck in reaching that point where you are comfortable with

that.

>

> dben8

>

> wrote:

>

> Hi, I really thought I was the only one with this problem! I have a 20

year

old

> daughter that has this and other than my therapist, no one in the family

will

> admit she is sick. They all say she is either acting out or spoiled.

>

> When she went back to school she got a living loan co- signed by my aunt

and

> guess who has paid it ever since? She spent $4000 in less than 6 weeks, I

paid

> for everything since, rent, groceries, spending money anything she needed,

she

> wrote a check and called for me to put in back, naturally I did, I didn't

want

> her writing bad checks.

> Humphrey

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol

I think they can ONLY maintain one relationship at a time. Whenever she is

with a significant guy, she wants or has no relationship with me. In college

when she was involved with a college classmate, I would hardly ever see or

here from her. I remember her calling me " early " (4am) one mornoing from the

local emergemcy room where she was with her boyfriend who was being treated

for alcohol poisoning----a heavy drinking Irish kid. She only picks guys she

can rescue. Then when they broke up, she sought me out again and of course I

was always there.

She told the counselor that she " MUST " be only with her husband and kids to

" work " on her marriage. The counselor did say she should have relationships

with others as well, but I am sure that fell on deaf ears. So I guess I am

relegated to the back burner.

My mother was always a part of my family---came to my son's games, was with

us for the holidays, went to breakfast with us frequently. She babysat my

kids on the week ends. My ex got along well with her. But then he wasn't a

felon.

After she and the boys father (another felon and loser) split, she was

REALLY my best buddy. She needed free babysitting, emotional support and

money.

ANd there I wasx to offer all three as I came riding in on my white horse to

once again rescue her. After all, I do codependency better than I do

anything else.

Yes I am bitter and angry realizing jus how many times I have allowed myself

to be used and made a fool of by this creature.

Now thaat my computer was down for almost a month and I need it to look up

various real estate things for my business, when I need a quick printout, I

called her hoping to have her look up a listing and do a print out for me, but

NO, she couldn't be bothered to answer the phone so I would drive 30 miles to

my office and 30 miles back for a lousy 5 minute computer usuiage thayt she

ould have helped me out on.

I realize now why they never have friends or maintaian friendships----they

have NO concept of being a friend. And then wonder why no one likes them.

She had recently gotten 4 listings in a 2 week period. I was amazed and

proud(though I feel I have no reason any longer to even feel proud of her---I

feel

like she is such a stranger) of her.

She has lost two of them. The sellers didn't think she was doing a good

job for them. I am sure she gave them an attitude they didn't care for. But

ewhat I heard was what jerks they were. She had done tons of advertising for

them---put out a lot of money on advertising, did many open houses, etc.

Obviously something else was at play there.

She has gone from being very humble to (after having the baby) to being very

cocky. She has been acting quite high and mighty for the past few months.

She says her hubby tells her she can do anything and that she is wonderful

and treats her like a queen. I guess that's where the confidence comes from.

It is just that I have never ever seen her so confident. It would be nice if

it were based on something substantial. She tells me when she is around me,

I take her down and make her feel bad about herself.

I guess telling her she needs to pay off the debts she has run up in my

aunt's name makes her feel bad. I guess reality makes her feel bad.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Carol

What is your relationship like now with your daughter? Having grandchildren

does make it difficult to wrtie them off. It is just so awkward to have

such a weird relatioinship with their mother. I feel like I am in a

divorce---this was how my ex related to me when he picked up and dropped off

the

kids---would never talk to me. I divorced him for screwing around with his

secretary, yet I was the baad guy !!!!!!! Needless to say, he has his issues

as

well---just divorced from wife # 4.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Carol

Why do they play this game of not answering the phone or not returning

calls? What is the payoff for them? Are they still just trying to push us out

of

their lives and why???????

Jean

[Guest guest]

I am sorry you continue to go through this. I know you love the grandkids.

You say yourself you know when she doesn't talk to you:: now that

boyfriend/father of other babe is out. Obviously not a healthy situation.

I, too, have gone through periods where I don't like my daughter very much.

When she lived here and feelings are running high, I have felt hatred towards

her. I now think it's hatred toward the disease!

You asked I also wonder how many of you with bp's have experienced the " does

not

answer phone " syndrome and " does not return phone calls on voice mail "

syndrome?

But, of course. All the time. I cannot get to speak to my granddaughter

without getting through the gatekeeper. It takes me about 4 - 5 calls over 1 -

2 months time before I speak to her once. She also lied to me for years that

she did not have e-mail when she did. Finally, when she lived here briefly

last/this year, she gave me her IM name and e-mail. Now, she switched IM

service providers so I cannot " track " her online or IM her.

This is part of the game. I just don't get drawn into it.

Recently, she asked for money. I said " no " in a roundabout, polite way. She

hasn't called since. Why would she.

At least she hasn't raged at me recently. We seem to do better on the phone. I

feel for her because it appears she loves me, when I tried to limit my

interactions with her, because she was yelling at me or whatever, she would call

me and say " you are the only mother I have. " She kept in touch for a couple of

years when I was so close to writing her off.

It's not easy.

Counseling will help you to sort it out so you can find a peaceful way to

" accept " who she is and the relationship you have with your grandsons. I'm not

sure we'll every have true " relationships " with our BPs. I am convinced they

cannot maintain relationships.

Carol

Jean

--------- Re: I am so glad I am not alone

> >

> >

> > ,

> >

> > For several years I tried to ward off the consequences of the actions of my

> > mentally ill daughter. At that time I thought it was easier. The bottom line

> > is: IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BE RESPONSIBLE, SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO BE.

> >

> > She lost her house, actually two of them, her kids ,two cars, her job, and

> went

> > through a ton of money (about $50,00). She wrote bad checks, forged on my

> > account, and defrauded other people including my pastor.

> >

> > Finally the light came on. She can sink or swim. It took almost 10 years but

> > now she lives on a small disability check totally on her own. She takes a

ton

> > of meds and goes to AA. I give no advice, no money and only listen to her

> > complaints if she is calm and sober.

> >

> > Detachment works, both mental and financial. It is healthier for your child

> and

> > for you. Good luck in reaching that point where you are comfortable with

that.

>

> >

> > dben8

> >

> > wrote:

> >

> > Hi, I really thought I was the only one with this problem! I have a 20 year

> old

> > daughter that has this and other than my therapist, no one in the family

will

> > admit she is sick. They all say she is either acting out or spoiled.

> >

> > When she went back to school she got a living loan co- signed by my aunt and

> > guess who has paid it ever since? She spent $4000 in less than 6 weeks, I

paid

>

> > for everything since, rent, groceries, spending money anything she needed,

she

>

> > wrote a check and called for me to put in back, naturally I did, I didn't

want

>

> > her writing bad checks.

> > Humphrey

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Carol

My daughter IS capapble of doing kind deeds for others IF she wants to.

When she was in college she was always taking pride in herself for picking up

strays (real ones, not just guys) and bring them home----dogs, cats, birds, a

chicken, frogs. Also, she would clean my whole house for me when she was in

high school when I was out on Sundays showing houses, etc. I never asked to

to do this, she just wanted to surprise me and said she knew I was working

hard. She was a joy back then.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Carol

The part of all this that pains me so is that my daughter and I were ALWAYS

very close. My son says he always felt like he was the outsider, because she

and I were so very much on the same wavelength. This is what is so very

painful for me. Amd as I have said, she would call me ALL the time and be at

my

house ALL the time. But as soon as she is in a relationship (even in

college) I am the enemy and she has nothing to do with me. I guess I only fill

the

void when she is between guys. She makes sure she picks dirtbags I would

never be in the same room with so we can never have a normal relationship as

most daughters have with their mothers after they marry. I have plenty of

friends who have married adult daughters who still have goodm close

relationships

with their Moms. It can be done !!!!

Jean

[Guest guest]

Carol

The only way I can go on with my life is to pretend that Krisitn is dead.

It is probably a good thing that she doesn't ret phone calls. Good but

annoying. Saturday, I had called her before I picked up the kids. I wanted to

ask

her if she could pack their suits so we could head down to the ocean. But,

of course she couldn't be bothered to answer, so I didn't bother leaving a

message as I never know if she plays her messages back for hours. Sso, I went

out and bought them swim trunks---end of season sales and I now have them at

my house.

I had told her I would buy his school clothes, but I don't think I

am. I will buy clothes for both of them to keep here and that's it. It seems

the convict gets them dressed or puts out their clothes for them and they come

to me looking like he must have as a kid. SO, I change them here when I

take them out.

Where was I? If I look upon my daughter as being dead, then I think I can

get thru this with less emotional misery for me. I have to keep telling

myself that no matter how badly she screws up her life it is not my business.

I

have no daughter, so it can not possibly be of any concern to me. And, the

freedom of knowing that I do not have to bail her out financially is quite

liberating.

She chose this path. SHe can live with it. She has mmade sure she has

pushed me out of her life and lived a life and I never approive of, so she has

chosen to be rid of me and she has finally succeeded. I have no use for her.

Jean

[Guest guest]

You hit it on the head when you said they are only capable of

(trying to have) one relationship at a time. My ex told me that,

too. Thought it was weird.

I believe they are not capable of maintaining relationships.

Therefore, perhaps you place too high of expectations on your

daughter because you would like a relationship with her, and it may

not happen. At least not anytime soon.

Observe her behaviors. If continually, she does not, cannot do

simple tasks, favors or requests, stop asking her. (Like getting

you the listings). Yes, it would have been convenient for you, but

they don't think about others. It may be out of their realm.

She may be acting lofty right now because she may love this guy --

and this is as close to happiness as they can feel.

I am glad you felt proud of her when she got the listings. A mother

should always be proud of her child when she accomplishes

something. It's ok to be proud and to share that with her,

Carol

> Carol

>

> I think they can ONLY maintain one relationship at a time.

Whenever she is

> with a significant guy, she wants or has no relationship with

me. In college

> when she was involved with a college classmate, I would hardly

ever see or

> here from her. I remember her calling me " early " (4am) one

mornoing from the

> local emergemcy room where she was with her boyfriend who was

being treated

> for alcohol poisoning----a heavy drinking Irish kid. She only

picks guys she

> can rescue. Then when they broke up, she sought me out again and

of course I

> was always there.

>

> She told the counselor that she " MUST " be only with her husband

and kids to

> " work " on her marriage. The counselor did say she should have

relationships

> with others as well, but I am sure that fell on deaf ears. So I

guess I am

> relegated to the back burner.

>

> My mother was always a part of my family---came to my son's

games, was with

> us for the holidays, went to breakfast with us frequently. She

babysat my

> kids on the week ends. My ex got along well with her. But then

he wasn't a

> felon.

>

> After she and the boys father (another felon and loser) split,

she was

> REALLY my best buddy. She needed free babysitting, emotional

support and money.

> ANd there I wasx to offer all three as I came riding in on my

white horse to

> once again rescue her. After all, I do codependency better than

I do

> anything else.

>

> Yes I am bitter and angry realizing jus how many times I have

allowed myself

> to be used and made a fool of by this creature.

>

> Now thaat my computer was down for almost a month and I need it

to look up

> various real estate things for my business, when I need a quick

printout, I

> called her hoping to have her look up a listing and do a print

out for me, but

> NO, she couldn't be bothered to answer the phone so I would drive

30 miles to

> my office and 30 miles back for a lousy 5 minute computer usuiage

thayt she

> ould have helped me out on.

>

> I realize now why they never have friends or maintaian

friendships----they

> have NO concept of being a friend. And then wonder why no one

likes them.

> She had recently gotten 4 listings in a 2 week period. I was

amazed and

> proud(though I feel I have no reason any longer to even feel

proud of her---I feel

> like she is such a stranger) of her.

>

> She has lost two of them. The sellers didn't think she was

doing a good

> job for them. I am sure she gave them an attitude they didn't

care for. But

> ewhat I heard was what jerks they were. She had done tons of

advertising for

> them---put out a lot of money on advertising, did many open

houses, etc.

> Obviously something else was at play there.

>

> She has gone from being very humble to (after having the baby) to

being very

> cocky. She has been acting quite high and mighty for the past

few months.

> She says her hubby tells her she can do anything and that she is

wonderful

> and treats her like a queen. I guess that's where the confidence

comes from.

> It is just that I have never ever seen her so confident. It

would be nice if

> it were based on something substantial. She tells me when she is

around me,

> I take her down and make her feel bad about herself.

>

> I guess telling her she needs to pay off the debts she has run up

in my

> aunt's name makes her feel bad. I guess reality makes her feel

bad.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I believe I mourned the loss of my little girl a long time ago.

When she was 13, she told me " we're not close, like Meghan and her

mom. " I was crushed. I told her we could be. It's a choice. I

believe she chose not to be close.

When she was 7, we were in Disney. She wrote a postcard to her

grandma that said she would be having a better time if she were with

her dad. The postcard was never mailed; I destroyed it.

No, we're not close. I don't ever expect to be. My friends think

she'll turn around. I know better.

I reached out to her once the baby was born -- I went down there 4 -

5 times a year. When I was mistreated, I walked out.

For 3 years before that, if she called on the phone and started

laying into me, I hung up (politely -- I told her I'd speak to her

another time). I wrote letters. When we went down to visit, we

made our own plans. If she joined us, great; if not, it was

expected.

I am sad her life will not be like others. I am sad (disappointed)

she did not/probably cannot go to college and create a better life

for herself.

I believe these are common threads that our BPs have. I've done my

best to come to terms with reality. There is no perfect family.....

I have a wonderful husband and son now (and yellow lab-- i read your

posts on your black lab); my mother and wonderful inlaws live

nearby .... and I enjoy my daily life....

Carol

> Carol

>

> What is your relationship like now with your daughter? Having

grandchildren

> does make it difficult to wrtie them off. It is just so awkward

to have

> such a weird relatioinship with their mother. I feel like I am

in a

> divorce---this was how my ex related to me when he picked up and

dropped off the

> kids---would never talk to me. I divorced him for screwing

around with his

> secretary, yet I was the baad guy !!!!!!! Needless to say, he

has his issues as

> well---just divorced from wife # 4.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Carol,

You're right, it is sad that your daughter is incapable of having

the relationship with you that you would like. It seems that you

wisely have accepted that and gone on with your life, counting the

blessings you do have and not dwelling on the impossible.

It is so common that we look at the negative in our lives and forget

to see the truly wonderful things around us that can be the source

of happiness. By detaching emotionally from those hurtful things we

cannot change, we give ourselves the space to write our own happy

ending.

Carolyn

> > Carol

> >

> > What is your relationship like now with your daughter? Having

> grandchildren

> > does make it difficult to wrtie them off. It is just so

awkward

> to have

> > such a weird relatioinship with their mother. I feel like I am

> in a

> > divorce---this was how my ex related to me when he picked up

and

> dropped off the

> > kids---would never talk to me. I divorced him for screwing

> around with his

> > secretary, yet I was the baad guy !!!!!!! Needless to say, he

> has his issues as

> > well---just divorced from wife # 4.

> >

> > Jean

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Carol

Harry, is actually a chocolate lab. If he doesn't learn how to behave, he

may becoame a " black and blue " Lab !!!!!!!!! Only kidding. He is such a brat

and I am in such a BAD mood all the time---angry and ready to pounce at the

drop of a pin. I am going to try to locate an AlAnon meeting in my area ASAP.

I will buy my grandson' s clothes if she gives me an extra day with him to

go shopping otherwise she can buy them herself. If she can run up those 7

credit cards (she fraudulently took out in her husband's name without his

knowledge) for things for the baby and the husband, then she can buy things for

her

sons as well. I really don't care whether she likes it or not. I am sick of

always doing the right thing, never showing my anger toward her, always

" WALKING ON EGGSHELLS " . I will say what I please and do what makes ME feel

better in relation to her from now on.

Welcome to the real world Krisitn. That is what the sellers of the listings

she lost probably did---they didn't care if they hurt the poor baby's

feelings. They didn't care for how she was marketing their homes and they

fired

her---pure and simple.

I know this guy she is married to is a con man. He knows all the right

things to say to her. He knows she will support him if he plays his cards

right.

He knows her weaknesses and he is using them to his advantage. But wait

till the money runs out. My son says he is like every one of the losers he

deals with in court who never learn from their mistakes. He doesn't know when

to keep his mouth shut. My son says he is of the institutionalized

mentality----functions best behind bars because that is where he has spent his

life

from 14 till 25. How does one function in society when one has lived MOST of

his life in jail? He didn't even know what a checking account was or how to

use it !!!!! I am sure he will start using drugs again and drinking. My

daughter buys him the stuff and then gets mad when he wants to go use with his

brother of his friends from his youth. You know----those kind are always stuck

in the same place in their lives. When she was in college, she would buy

booze for her boyfriend when she turned 21 and he was still 20 and then get mad

when he got drunk. I guess this is what people talk about when they say the

bp's thinking is not wired like everyone else's.

So, I imagine my daughter will have some good times ahead of her ! I can

hardly wait.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Carolyn,

I agree. When she was younger, I don't think some of my friends could

understand how I could " detach " from my daughter.

Something told me I had to change my reactions, I couldn't make her any happier,

I couldn't help her to deal with her emotions or change, so I guess I felt at

the time I took the high road. It was tough.

Now, my closer friends who " see " her problems, are more understanding.

All of us, I feel we should count our blessings and be grateful for what we do

have!!!

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> Carol,

>

> You're right, it is sad that your daughter is incapable of having

> the relationship with you that you would like. It seems that you

> wisely have accepted that and gone on with your life, counting the

> blessings you do have and not dwelling on the impossible.

>

> It is so common that we look at the negative in our lives and forget

> to see the truly wonderful things around us that can be the source

> of happiness. By detaching emotionally from those hurtful things we

> cannot change, we give ourselves the space to write our own happy

> ending.

>

> Carolyn

>

>

>

>

> > > Carol

> > >

> > > What is your relationship like now with your daughter? Having

> > grandchildren

> > > does make it difficult to wrtie them off. It is just so

> awkward

> > to have

> > > such a weird relatioinship with their mother. I feel like I am

> > in a

> > > divorce---this was how my ex related to me when he picked up

> and

> > dropped off the

> > > kids---would never talk to me. I divorced him for screwing

> > around with his

> > > secretary, yet I was the baad guy !!!!!!! Needless to say, he

> > has his issues as

> > > well---just divorced from wife # 4.

> > >

> > > Jean

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I hear your pain -- you had something very special with your daughter that is no

longer there.

Was there an event in her life she interpreted as traumatic that triggered the

BP?

Maybe if you distance yourself and realize it's the BP talking (not the daughter

you enjoyed), you may discover some of your answers.

I don't think they deliberately choose bad seeds, but they feel so badly about

themselves, that they may feel " better " than the folks they chose to be with, or

that this is all they deserve.

You have a complicated situation.

Your son is right -- enjoy him right now and your black lab!!!!

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> Carol

>

> The part of all this that pains me so is that my daughter and I were ALWAYS

> very close. My son says he always felt like he was the outsider, because she

> and I were so very much on the same wavelength. This is what is so very

> painful for me. Amd as I have said, she would call me ALL the time and be at

> my

> house ALL the time. But as soon as she is in a relationship (even in

> college) I am the enemy and she has nothing to do with me. I guess I only fill

> the

> void when she is between guys. She makes sure she picks dirtbags I would

> never be in the same room with so we can never have a normal relationship as

> most daughters have with their mothers after they marry. I have plenty of

> friends who have married adult daughters who still have goodm close

> relationships

> with their Moms. It can be done !!!!

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

There was a year or two there I desperately wanted to write off my daughter.

One of my girlfriends talked me out of it.

Kirsten is still your daughter. However, that doesn't mean you have to bail her

out financially.

She probably picks up her messages and would have gotten the message to pack

their bathing suits. That's not to say she would have done it. She's not going

to do what you want her to do. You can only control your own choices, decisions

and thoughts and actions. Not theirs!!!

Unfortunately, if you feel you promised her you would buy the kids clothes, and

you go back on your word, in their brains, that's one more thing for them to

hold against us.

I know it's hard to do, but please try not to take her behavior as a personal

assault against you. It's a common trait among BPs - they blame, they do not

take responsibility or accountability for their own lives and decisions. They

make impulsive decisions that they have to live with.

Carol

-------------- Original message --------------

> Carol

>

> The only way I can go on with my life is to pretend that Krisitn is dead.

> It is probably a good thing that she doesn't ret phone calls. Good but

> annoying. Saturday, I had called her before I picked up the kids. I wanted to

> ask

> her if she could pack their suits so we could head down to the ocean. But,

> of course she couldn't be bothered to answer, so I didn't bother leaving a

> message as I never know if she plays her messages back for hours. Sso, I went

> out and bought them swim trunks---end of season sales and I now have them at

> my house.

>

> I had told her I would buy his school clothes, but I don't think I

> am. I will buy clothes for both of them to keep here and that's it. It seems

> the convict gets them dressed or puts out their clothes for them and they come

> to me looking like he must have as a kid. SO, I change them here when I

> take them out.

>

> Where was I? If I look upon my daughter as being dead, then I think I can

> get thru this with less emotional misery for me. I have to keep telling

> myself that no matter how badly she screws up her life it is not my business.

> I

> have no daughter, so it can not possibly be of any concern to me. And, the

> freedom of knowing that I do not have to bail her out financially is quite

> liberating.

>

> She chose this path. SHe can live with it. She has mmade sure she has

> pushed me out of her life and lived a life and I never approive of, so she has

> chosen to be rid of me and she has finally succeeded. I have no use for her.

>

> Jean

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jean

If you can't find an Al-Anon meeting in your area, you can find them meeting

on-line - I was pretty amazed at that, but I guess just about everything is

available online these days.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 1:13 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: Re: I am so glad I am not alone

Carol

Harry, is actually a chocolate lab. If he doesn't learn how to behave, he

may becoame a " black and blue " Lab !!!!!!!!! Only kidding. He is such a

brat

and I am in such a BAD mood all the time---angry and ready to pounce at the

drop of a pin. I am going to try to locate an AlAnon meeting in my area

ASAP.

I will buy my grandson' s clothes if she gives me an extra day with him to

go shopping otherwise she can buy them herself. If she can run up those 7

credit cards (she fraudulently took out in her husband's name without his

knowledge) for things for the baby and the husband, then she can buy things

for her

sons as well. I really don't care whether she likes it or not. I am sick

of

always doing the right thing, never showing my anger toward her, always

" WALKING ON EGGSHELLS " . I will say what I please and do what makes ME feel

better in relation to her from now on.

Welcome to the real world Krisitn. That is what the sellers of the

listings

she lost probably did---they didn't care if they hurt the poor baby's

feelings. They didn't care for how she was marketing their homes and they

fired

her---pure and simple.

I know this guy she is married to is a con man. He knows all the right

things to say to her. He knows she will support him if he plays his cards

right.

He knows her weaknesses and he is using them to his advantage. But wait

till the money runs out. My son says he is like every one of the losers he

deals with in court who never learn from their mistakes. He doesn't know

when

to keep his mouth shut. My son says he is of the institutionalized

mentality----functions best behind bars because that is where he has spent

his life

from 14 till 25. How does one function in society when one has lived MOST

of

his life in jail? He didn't even know what a checking account was or how

to

use it !!!!! I am sure he will start using drugs again and drinking. My

daughter buys him the stuff and then gets mad when he wants to go use with

his

brother of his friends from his youth. You know----those kind are always

stuck

in the same place in their lives. When she was in college, she would buy

booze for her boyfriend when she turned 21 and he was still 20 and then get

mad

when he got drunk. I guess this is what people talk about when they say

the

bp's thinking is not wired like everyone else's.

So, I imagine my daughter will have some good times ahead of her ! I can

hardly wait.

Jean

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/3/2005 12:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nst@... writes:

I am so glad to have found someone I can talk to. I look forward to having

someone out there. Thanks

Humphrey

Welcome !

And you are truly not alone. My daughter is 18 and so far we are a

success story.

Any help I can give, let me know. Hang in there. Read Co-Dependent No More.

Sounds like you would benefit from this.

Hugs,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Dot

How old is this girl?

[Guest guest]

Let me add my two cents worth. I've talked before about my friend with six

kids whose third child was borderline. She was able to work through her

problems, although it took several years for her to really pull through.

She is now married to a policeman, has gone to physical therapy assistant's

school and is outwardly happy and gainfully employed.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of funnygirl1154@...

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:13 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: I am so glad I am not alone

In a message dated 8/3/2005 12:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,

nst@... writes:

I am so glad to have found someone I can talk to. I look forward to having

someone out there. Thanks

Humphrey

Welcome !

And you are truly not alone. My daughter is 18 and so far we are a

success story.

Any help I can give, let me know. Hang in there. Read Co-Dependent No

More.

Sounds like you would benefit from this.

Hugs,

Debbie

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jean

I'm not exactly sure of her age - somewhere around 24 or 25 I think. BUT,

her family aggressively sought intervention because her bp was complicated

by an attendant anorexia, which made things really bad. They borrowed from

the husband's retirement fund in order to send her to a RTC somewhere in New

Mexico or Arizona.

So why is it that family intervention works for some and not others??? Who

knows. I DO know that the father in this situation spent a HUGE amount of

time with this one daughter - he would sit with her while she ate, talk with

her before she went to bed; I'm talking like hours every day - for a long

time.

I always wondered how the other five kids felt as well as the wife. But he

was always careful to make sure he took his other daughter's on breakfast

dates, attend their sports functions, that sort of thing. I do know it was

a terrible strain on their family. At one point in the middle of it, my

friend told me her husband came home with a cigarette hanging out of his

mouth (he's NEVER smoked before) saying that if the daughter was going to

destroy the family, he might as well smoke & hope he got lung cancer and

died first!

This was SOO out of character for him that my mouth hung open when she told

me that!!!

So, whether it was the girl's RTC intervention, her father's very

unremitting attention, or what - she DID recover, but their family went

through hell as well.

As with many of our families, the rest of their family has grown and

thrived. Go figure.

Dot

_____

From: WTOParentsOfBPs

[mailto:WTOParentsOfBPs ] On Behalf Of cascorsam@...

Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:21 PM

To: WTOParentsOfBPs

Subject: Re: I am so glad I am not alone

Dot

How old is this girl?