QUESTIONS RE: POOR CONVERSION

[Guest guest]

Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

hogging the board....

I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on 2

grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of energy

like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and T4 in

very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still not

got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only and

worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better, lost

weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches arrived

daily.

All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly) and

then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety attack,

never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

little.

My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour seem

to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up of T4

going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me optimum

health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3 only

and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have no

scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the hyper

direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot convert

yet seem to do well on Armour.

Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a menopausal

problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin everything

onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing armour i

will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

Thanks for listening,

Sheila (newby)

[Guest guest]

Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor converter you feel better. It

is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus the t4. If you are a poor converter, why

would you have added t4 to the Armour? What are your test results and ranges?

Were you splitting the Armour to at least 2 times a day?

QUESTIONS RE: POOR CONVERSION

Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

hogging the board....

I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on 2

grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of energy

like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and T4 in

very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still not

got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only and

worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better, lost

weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches arrived

daily.

All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly) and

then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety attack,

never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

little.

My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour seem

to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up of T4

going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me optimum

health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3 only

and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have no

scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the hyper

direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot convert

yet seem to do well on Armour.

Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a menopausal

problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin everything

onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing armour i

will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

Thanks for listening,

Sheila (newby)

[Guest guest]

I know it gets really confusing... I'll see if I can back you up a bit so

that you understand how the pieces fit together.....

This covers some of the basics of the hormones, conversion and

interaction.. so may be of interest to other new folks and may be pretty

boring for the old timers... Either way, it's a long one.. grab something

to drink (filtered water, maybe??? hhehehehehe)

T4 - Its the storage hormone. It's a large molecule that is held together

with 4 iodine molecules.

T3 - Is a T4 that has had one of the iodine molecules taken away - that

is the conversion.

T2 - is a T3 molecule that has had one of it's iodine molecules pulled

away - again, conversion.

T4 is distributed throughout the body and held within the body cells, it

is stored. It is also flowing freely in the blood so that it can be

distributed throughout the body and stored, as needed for the body to

convert to T3.

T4 takes 4 to 6 weeks to gradually build up in the tissues when a dose of

medication is increased... It also takes weeks for the supplies to be

depleted when the dosage is decreased.

When the body needs T3 to send to organs and systems in the body it sends

out the signal, at the cellular level, for the conversion process to

begin. The T4 molecules are then changed into T3.

T3 is used up very quickly by the body and doesn't stick around... so a

supply must be continuously made/converted by the body. For someone that

is a poor converter. It's hard to convert/make enough T3 to meet the

needs of the body. So, even though there may be plenty of storage hormone

(T4) built up, there isn't enough of the active hormone (T3) for the body

to function correctly, so that you feel well.

When you take a T4 only med, the tissues will store that T4.. and the

body will convert it to T3 for use, as best it can.... but if it can't

convert the amount that you need, either because it's having trouble with

the chemical process, or because there isn't enough T4 available you end

up feeling like crap....

Now... A natural thyroid medication, like Armour, has T4, T3, T2, T1 and

calcitonin. These are natural hormones, not synthetically manufactured,

and are easier for the body to convert.

Still with me?

When you add T3 to your system by taking a synthetic, like Cytomel, or

when it is part of a natural, like Armour, the body is able to use that

hormone right away, and will, BUT that T3 that you just took will be 95%

used up in just 4 hours.... after that, your body is dependant on it's

ability to convert....

Okay... You take the synthetic T4... and are totally dependant on

conversion

You take synthetic T3... and your body uses up whatever you took in about

4 hours, then your body has nothing left but to convert whatever T4 is in

your system.

You take a T4/T3 combo... The T4 reserves will be built up.. leaving

stuff there for conversion. The T3 will be used right away, then your

body will be dependant on the T3 that your body can make, the conversion.

So.... for someone that is a poor converter, like me... you have a few

options.. you can help your body to improve it's conversion rate. You can

do this by watching what you eat, and how it relates to your meds...

watch your supplements to make sure that none of them are interfering

with your absorption of your meds.... Maintaining your blood sugar

through regular meals, not skipping meals, to keep the energy levels of

your body (at cellular level) high enough for the conversion to take

place (not enough energy and it doesnt' happen).

...and you can take extra T3... But it's important HOW you do it... If

you take just one shot in the morning.... 4 hours later, your body is

back to relying on your conversion. If you break up the dose so that you

take it more than once a day... you give your body more chances during

the day to get that extra kick it needs to do what it needs to do...

then, in between doses... it gets the T3 that it's able to make on it's

own....

For me.... The way that has flat out worked the best for me... is to

break up my dose of natural to five times a day.... I take a 1/2 grain

dose as soon as I wake up... before I even sit up.. that gets it into my

system right away.. I then dose every four hours or so the rest of the

day.. my last dose I take as I crawl in bed... so the ONLY time that my

body is totally dependant on conversion is from the time my last dose is

used up.. and when I take my first dose when I wake.

Now my body has what it needs throughout the day to do what it needs to

do, when it needs to be done.. without having to put up the 'out to

lunch' sign while it waits for the conversion process to come up with

enough T3 for it to do what it needs to do.

Does that make more sense? How the T3 and the T4 relate to each other?

And why you need both?

So, now... you've probably depleted the T4 in your system storage... and

need to get that built up to a level where you body can begin to

convert.... With your thyroid levels so low in your body, your adrenals

have had to kick in to cover for the missing thyroid hormone... When you

drink caffeine, one of the things that it does to your body to give you

that surge or energy, to wake you up... is to stimulate your adrenals...

but your's are getting pretty tuckered out from the lack of thyroid... so

the caffeine is just causing your body more stress and more hurt...

Does it make a wee bit more sense? Ask questions to clarify more.. that's

why we're all here.. to help each other to understand.....

Topper ()

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:48:37 -0000 " orlando1088 "

writes:

> Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

> hogging the board....

>

> I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on 2

> grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of energy

> like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and T4

> in

> very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still not

> got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

> grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only and

> worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better, lost

> weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches arrived

> daily.

> All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

> caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

> blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

> started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly) and

> then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

> attack,

> never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

> staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

> little.

> My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour seem

> to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up of T4

> going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me optimum

> health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3 only

> and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have no

> scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the

> hyper

> direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot convert

> yet seem to do well on Armour.

> Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a menopausal

> problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin everything

> onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

> responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing armour

> i will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Sheila (newby)

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

As i did not feel great on 2 grains (now i know i should simply have

upped the dose, the joys of hindsight) my doctor said try 25 mgs T4

with 10mgs T3 and see how that goes. I felt bad on that combo so i

went onto T3 alone, which was a disaster. My blood hasn't been

checked for a year, i have had the 24 hour urine test in January

which showed me extremely low in both T3 and T4, but even that is

outdated now after my little sojourn with T3. I need to get tested

again, how long do i need to be back on Armour before a blood test

will be reasonably accurate? My doctor wants to do one in eight

weeks, but i would like to know before, what do u think.

Sheila

> Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor converter you

feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus the t4. If you

are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to the Armour?

What are your test results and ranges? Were you splitting the Armour

to at least 2 times a day?

> QUESTIONS RE: POOR CONVERSION

>

>

> Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

> hogging the board....

>

> I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on

2

> grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of

energy

> like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and

T4 in

> very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still

not

> got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

> grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only

and

> worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better,

lost

> weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches

arrived

> daily.

> All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

> caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

> blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

> started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly)

and

> then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

attack,

> never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

> staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

> little.

> My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour

seem

> to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up

of T4

> going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me

optimum

> health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3

only

> and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have

no

> scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the

hyper

> direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot

convert

> yet seem to do well on Armour.

> Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

menopausal

> problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

everything

> onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

> responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing

armour i

> will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Sheila (newby)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow Thanks so much for that, how can i ever expect to attain that

level of knowledge. Because i am not quite there, i am almost afraid

of picking up " help " books in case i read something depressing. I

have printed your message out to carry with me and help me understand

how it all works, but you put it in laymans terms which i can

understand and i am very grateful. Do u take extra T3 as well as the

Armour? Is that a good idea - not now obviously as my stocks are low

and quite depleted everywhere i think, but i am a little afraid to

touch T3 again after my experience last week, and is it true that we

need only a tiny amount compared to T4? if so, how would one know

which dosage to take?

I am sure i will be ok when i reach the optimum dose for myself,

probably more than 2 grains but i will stick with it. I have just

done a saliva adrenal test today to see how things are going, a lot

of people seem to need adrenal support to help with the conversion.

Do u take any? Also is low blood pressure a symptom of hypo?

I appreciate your time and thanks so much for all that info which i

shall digest in bed tonite (hubby away)_.

Sheila

> I know it gets really confusing... I'll see if I can back you up a

bit so

> that you understand how the pieces fit together.....

>

> This covers some of the basics of the hormones, conversion and

> interaction.. so may be of interest to other new folks and may be

pretty

> boring for the old timers... Either way, it's a long one.. grab

something

> to drink (filtered water, maybe??? hhehehehehe)

>

> T4 - Its the storage hormone. It's a large molecule that is held

together

> with 4 iodine molecules.

> T3 - Is a T4 that has had one of the iodine molecules taken away -

that

> is the conversion.

> T2 - is a T3 molecule that has had one of it's iodine molecules

pulled

> away - again, conversion.

>

> T4 is distributed throughout the body and held within the body

cells, it

> is stored. It is also flowing freely in the blood so that it can be

> distributed throughout the body and stored, as needed for the body

to

> convert to T3.

> T4 takes 4 to 6 weeks to gradually build up in the tissues when a

dose of

> medication is increased... It also takes weeks for the supplies to

be

> depleted when the dosage is decreased.

>

> When the body needs T3 to send to organs and systems in the body it

sends

> out the signal, at the cellular level, for the conversion process to

> begin. The T4 molecules are then changed into T3.

>

> T3 is used up very quickly by the body and doesn't stick around...

so a

> supply must be continuously made/converted by the body. For someone

that

> is a poor converter. It's hard to convert/make enough T3 to meet the

> needs of the body. So, even though there may be plenty of storage

hormone

> (T4) built up, there isn't enough of the active hormone (T3) for

the body

> to function correctly, so that you feel well.

>

> When you take a T4 only med, the tissues will store that T4.. and

the

> body will convert it to T3 for use, as best it can.... but if it

can't

> convert the amount that you need, either because it's having

trouble with

> the chemical process, or because there isn't enough T4 available

you end

> up feeling like crap....

>

> Now... A natural thyroid medication, like Armour, has T4, T3, T2,

T1 and

> calcitonin. These are natural hormones, not synthetically

manufactured,

> and are easier for the body to convert.

>

> Still with me?

>

> When you add T3 to your system by taking a synthetic, like Cytomel,

or

> when it is part of a natural, like Armour, the body is able to use

that

> hormone right away, and will, BUT that T3 that you just took will

be 95%

> used up in just 4 hours.... after that, your body is dependant on

it's

> ability to convert....

>

> Okay... You take the synthetic T4... and are totally dependant on

> conversion

> You take synthetic T3... and your body uses up whatever you took in

about

> 4 hours, then your body has nothing left but to convert whatever T4

is in

> your system.

> You take a T4/T3 combo... The T4 reserves will be built up.. leaving

> stuff there for conversion. The T3 will be used right away, then

your

> body will be dependant on the T3 that your body can make, the

conversion.

>

> So.... for someone that is a poor converter, like me... you have a

few

> options.. you can help your body to improve it's conversion rate.

You can

> do this by watching what you eat, and how it relates to your meds...

> watch your supplements to make sure that none of them are

interfering

> with your absorption of your meds.... Maintaining your blood sugar

> through regular meals, not skipping meals, to keep the energy

levels of

> your body (at cellular level) high enough for the conversion to take

> place (not enough energy and it doesnt' happen).

>

> ..and you can take extra T3... But it's important HOW you do it...

If

> you take just one shot in the morning.... 4 hours later, your body

is

> back to relying on your conversion. If you break up the dose so

that you

> take it more than once a day... you give your body more chances

during

> the day to get that extra kick it needs to do what it needs to do...

> then, in between doses... it gets the T3 that it's able to make on

it's

> own....

>

> For me.... The way that has flat out worked the best for me... is to

> break up my dose of natural to five times a day.... I take a 1/2

grain

> dose as soon as I wake up... before I even sit up.. that gets it

into my

> system right away.. I then dose every four hours or so the rest of

the

> day.. my last dose I take as I crawl in bed... so the ONLY time

that my

> body is totally dependant on conversion is from the time my last

dose is

> used up.. and when I take my first dose when I wake.

>

> Now my body has what it needs throughout the day to do what it

needs to

> do, when it needs to be done.. without having to put up the 'out to

> lunch' sign while it waits for the conversion process to come up

with

> enough T3 for it to do what it needs to do.

>

> Does that make more sense? How the T3 and the T4 relate to each

other?

> And why you need both?

>

> So, now... you've probably depleted the T4 in your system

storage... and

> need to get that built up to a level where you body can begin to

> convert.... With your thyroid levels so low in your body, your

adrenals

> have had to kick in to cover for the missing thyroid hormone...

When you

> drink caffeine, one of the things that it does to your body to give

you

> that surge or energy, to wake you up... is to stimulate your

adrenals...

> but your's are getting pretty tuckered out from the lack of

thyroid... so

> the caffeine is just causing your body more stress and more hurt...

>

> Does it make a wee bit more sense? Ask questions to clarify more..

that's

> why we're all here.. to help each other to understand.....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:48:37 -0000 " orlando1088 " <orlando1088@y...>

> writes:

> > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

> > hogging the board....

> >

> > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on

2

> > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of

energy

> > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and

T4

> > in

> > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still

not

> > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

> > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only

and

> > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better,

lost

> > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches

arrived

> > daily.

> > All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

> > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

> > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

> > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly)

and

> > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

> > attack,

> > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

> > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

> > little.

> > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour

seem

> > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up

of T4

> > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me

optimum

> > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3

only

> > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have

no

> > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the

> > hyper

> > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot

convert

> > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

menopausal

> > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

everything

> > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

> > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing

armour

> > i will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> >

> > Thanks for listening,

> > Sheila (newby)

[Guest guest]

First of all you need to be tested now for free t3 and free t4 as well as TSH

and TPO. Then you decide what dosage you need to play with, not the other way

around. You need the baseline. You need a serum or blood test, not a urine test.

What type of DR are you seeing?

QUESTIONS RE: POOR CONVERSION

>

>

> Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

> hogging the board....

>

> I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on

2

> grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of

energy

> like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and

T4 in

> very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still

not

> got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

> grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only

and

> worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better,

lost

> weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches

arrived

> daily.

> All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

> caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

> blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

> started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly)

and

> then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

attack,

> never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

> staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

> little.

> My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour

seem

> to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up

of T4

> going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me

optimum

> health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3

only

> and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have

no

> scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the

hyper

> direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot

convert

> yet seem to do well on Armour.

> Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

menopausal

> problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

everything

> onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

> responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing

armour i

> will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

>

> Thanks for listening,

> Sheila (newby)

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again

I am seeing a doctor who is not my personal doctor here in the u.k

(he thinks Thyroxine T4 only is the way to go and wont hear of any

alternatives) who is trained and has a hormone clinic. I did have a

blood test last Wednesday nite when i was admitted to hospital, and

was told they were testing the thyroid but my own doctor said the

results would not be worth anything as i have only been back on

Armour for a week. I will call the 2nd doctor in the morning to ask

for the test. You are right.

Sheila

> > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor converter

you

> feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus the t4. If

you

> are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to the Armour?

> What are your test results and ranges? Were you splitting the

Armour

> to at least 2 times a day?

> > QUESTIONS RE: POOR

CONVERSION

> >

> >

> > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please

excuse me

> > hogging the board....

> >

> > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I

was on

> 2

> > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of

> energy

> > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3

and

> T4 in

> > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since.

Still

> not

> > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the

Armour (1

> > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3

only

> and

> > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better,

> lost

> > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches

> arrived

> > daily.

> > All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive

to

> > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and

had

> > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which

i

> > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was

silly)

> and

> > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

> attack,

> > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat

and

> > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

increase a

> > little.

> > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does

Armour

> seem

> > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build

up

> of T4

> > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me

> optimum

> > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the

T3

> only

> > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and

have

> no

> > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in

the

> hyper

> > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot

> convert

> > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

> menopausal

> > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

> everything

> > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must

take

> > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing

> armour i

> > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> >

> > Thanks for listening,

> > Sheila (newby)

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm not taking any extra T3.. just the generic Armour (same formulation,

different fillers, different brand).. I just split the dose by chopping

the tabs... I have 2 grain tabs that I quarter.... to get 1/2 grain

doses.. then I take 1/2 grain at a time, sublingually (under my tongue).

That greatly reduces issues with absorption and binding so I get more of

the hormones into my blood stream....

There is a lot to learn.. not of us know everything.. and even what you

do know that works for you, may not work for the next person.. so we all

share and learn everyday... fitting the pieces together for each of us

until we find what works the best....

There are some folks here that can take their whole dose in the morning

and do just fine... but for me.. that didn't work... I wasn't healing, I

wasn't getting better.. now I am....

I take a Bovine adrenal glandular... I also multi-dose that... Five

quarter tabs a day, starting when I wake in the morning, then each two

hours or so until just past noon.... then I go through until the next

morning on what my adrenals produce on their own... I've been on the

adrenal for about 14 months now and feeling tons better...

I've always been very sensitive to dosage changes and taking into

consideration the years that I was underdosed on T4 only meds and then

went without for several years when I was out of insurance.. my poor body

has a lot of healing to catch up on... it seems that doing everything in

small doses throughout the day has helped my body get better... I

suspected that a really run down body was only able to do so much at one

time and then any meds or supps that were left over when the body was too

tired to continue would be lost.. so I split everything up and take it

several times a day.. so my body works for a bit.. rests.. gets more

'goodies', then works for a bit and rests... then even more 'goodies',

work, then rest... It been the trick that got me going in the right

direction.....

Just remember.. we all know how hard it is, when you're still feeling

really crummy, to learn and to remember... so if you have to ask to have

something explained better.. don't hesitate.. that goes for everyone...

Oh, the strength thing.... T3 is four times stronger than T4... so it's

much more potent... but just as important is that it takes T4 weeks to

build up.. that is why it's best to not do increases to quickly.... About

6 weeks is the minimum to be on a dose to get a good, accurate reading of

your levels...

Topper () *who still learns more every day!*

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 18:01:12 -0000 " orlando1088 "

writes:

> Wow Thanks so much for that, how can i ever expect to attain that

> level of knowledge. Because i am not quite there, i am almost afraid

> of picking up " help " books in case i read something depressing. I

> have printed your message out to carry with me and help me

> understand

> how it all works, but you put it in laymans terms which i can

> understand and i am very grateful. Do u take extra T3 as well as the

> Armour? Is that a good idea - not now obviously as my stocks are low

> and quite depleted everywhere i think, but i am a little afraid to

> touch T3 again after my experience last week, and is it true that we

> need only a tiny amount compared to T4? if so, how would one know

> which dosage to take?

> I am sure i will be ok when i reach the optimum dose for myself,

> probably more than 2 grains but i will stick with it. I have just

> done a saliva adrenal test today to see how things are going, a lot

> of people seem to need adrenal support to help with the conversion.

> Do u take any? Also is low blood pressure a symptom of hypo?

> I appreciate your time and thanks so much for all that info which i

> shall digest in bed tonite (hubby away)_.

>

> Sheila

[Guest guest]

Sheila, you have a DR, right? You need some blood work to see where you are to

start. Doing anything else like adrenals or anything can be very dangerous. Get

a baseline. You already know that self-medicating has made you worse. You said

you have a DR so work with him and some lab work so you can head in the right

direction. JMHO

Re: QUESTIONS RE: POOR CONVERSION

Wow Thanks so much for that, how can i ever expect to attain that

level of knowledge. Because i am not quite there, i am almost afraid

of picking up " help " books in case i read something depressing. I

have printed your message out to carry with me and help me understand

how it all works, but you put it in laymans terms which i can

understand and i am very grateful. Do u take extra T3 as well as the

Armour? Is that a good idea - not now obviously as my stocks are low

and quite depleted everywhere i think, but i am a little afraid to

touch T3 again after my experience last week, and is it true that we

need only a tiny amount compared to T4? if so, how would one know

which dosage to take?

I am sure i will be ok when i reach the optimum dose for myself,

probably more than 2 grains but i will stick with it. I have just

done a saliva adrenal test today to see how things are going, a lot

of people seem to need adrenal support to help with the conversion.

Do u take any? Also is low blood pressure a symptom of hypo?

I appreciate your time and thanks so much for all that info which i

shall digest in bed tonite (hubby away)_.

Sheila

> I know it gets really confusing... I'll see if I can back you up a

bit so

> that you understand how the pieces fit together.....

>

> This covers some of the basics of the hormones, conversion and

> interaction.. so may be of interest to other new folks and may be

pretty

> boring for the old timers... Either way, it's a long one.. grab

something

> to drink (filtered water, maybe??? hhehehehehe)

>

> T4 - Its the storage hormone. It's a large molecule that is held

together

> with 4 iodine molecules.

> T3 - Is a T4 that has had one of the iodine molecules taken away -

that

> is the conversion.

> T2 - is a T3 molecule that has had one of it's iodine molecules

pulled

> away - again, conversion.

>

> T4 is distributed throughout the body and held within the body

cells, it

> is stored. It is also flowing freely in the blood so that it can be

> distributed throughout the body and stored, as needed for the body

to

> convert to T3.

> T4 takes 4 to 6 weeks to gradually build up in the tissues when a

dose of

> medication is increased... It also takes weeks for the supplies to

be

> depleted when the dosage is decreased.

>

> When the body needs T3 to send to organs and systems in the body it

sends

> out the signal, at the cellular level, for the conversion process to

> begin. The T4 molecules are then changed into T3.

>

> T3 is used up very quickly by the body and doesn't stick around...

so a

> supply must be continuously made/converted by the body. For someone

that

> is a poor converter. It's hard to convert/make enough T3 to meet the

> needs of the body. So, even though there may be plenty of storage

hormone

> (T4) built up, there isn't enough of the active hormone (T3) for

the body

> to function correctly, so that you feel well.

>

> When you take a T4 only med, the tissues will store that T4.. and

the

> body will convert it to T3 for use, as best it can.... but if it

can't

> convert the amount that you need, either because it's having

trouble with

> the chemical process, or because there isn't enough T4 available

you end

> up feeling like crap....

>

> Now... A natural thyroid medication, like Armour, has T4, T3, T2,

T1 and

> calcitonin. These are natural hormones, not synthetically

manufactured,

> and are easier for the body to convert.

>

> Still with me?

>

> When you add T3 to your system by taking a synthetic, like Cytomel,

or

> when it is part of a natural, like Armour, the body is able to use

that

> hormone right away, and will, BUT that T3 that you just took will

be 95%

> used up in just 4 hours.... after that, your body is dependant on

it's

> ability to convert....

>

> Okay... You take the synthetic T4... and are totally dependant on

> conversion

> You take synthetic T3... and your body uses up whatever you took in

about

> 4 hours, then your body has nothing left but to convert whatever T4

is in

> your system.

> You take a T4/T3 combo... The T4 reserves will be built up.. leaving

> stuff there for conversion. The T3 will be used right away, then

your

> body will be dependant on the T3 that your body can make, the

conversion.

>

> So.... for someone that is a poor converter, like me... you have a

few

> options.. you can help your body to improve it's conversion rate.

You can

> do this by watching what you eat, and how it relates to your meds...

> watch your supplements to make sure that none of them are

interfering

> with your absorption of your meds.... Maintaining your blood sugar

> through regular meals, not skipping meals, to keep the energy

levels of

> your body (at cellular level) high enough for the conversion to take

> place (not enough energy and it doesnt' happen).

>

> ..and you can take extra T3... But it's important HOW you do it...

If

> you take just one shot in the morning.... 4 hours later, your body

is

> back to relying on your conversion. If you break up the dose so

that you

> take it more than once a day... you give your body more chances

during

> the day to get that extra kick it needs to do what it needs to do...

> then, in between doses... it gets the T3 that it's able to make on

it's

> own....

>

> For me.... The way that has flat out worked the best for me... is to

> break up my dose of natural to five times a day.... I take a 1/2

grain

> dose as soon as I wake up... before I even sit up.. that gets it

into my

> system right away.. I then dose every four hours or so the rest of

the

> day.. my last dose I take as I crawl in bed... so the ONLY time

that my

> body is totally dependant on conversion is from the time my last

dose is

> used up.. and when I take my first dose when I wake.

>

> Now my body has what it needs throughout the day to do what it

needs to

> do, when it needs to be done.. without having to put up the 'out to

> lunch' sign while it waits for the conversion process to come up

with

> enough T3 for it to do what it needs to do.

>

> Does that make more sense? How the T3 and the T4 relate to each

other?

> And why you need both?

>

> So, now... you've probably depleted the T4 in your system

storage... and

> need to get that built up to a level where you body can begin to

> convert.... With your thyroid levels so low in your body, your

adrenals

> have had to kick in to cover for the missing thyroid hormone...

When you

> drink caffeine, one of the things that it does to your body to give

you

> that surge or energy, to wake you up... is to stimulate your

adrenals...

> but your's are getting pretty tuckered out from the lack of

thyroid... so

> the caffeine is just causing your body more stress and more hurt...

>

> Does it make a wee bit more sense? Ask questions to clarify more..

that's

> why we're all here.. to help each other to understand.....

>

> Topper ()

>

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:48:37 -0000 " orlando1088 " <orlando1088@y...>

> writes:

> > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please excuse me

> > hogging the board....

> >

> > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I was on

2

> > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of

energy

> > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3 and

T4

> > in

> > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since. Still

not

> > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the Armour (1

> > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3 only

and

> > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better,

lost

> > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches

arrived

> > daily.

> > All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive to

> > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and had

> > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which i

> > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was silly)

and

> > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

> > attack,

> > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat and

> > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to increase a

> > little.

> > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does Armour

seem

> > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build up

of T4

> > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me

optimum

> > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the T3

only

> > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and have

no

> > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in the

> > hyper

> > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot

convert

> > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

menopausal

> > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

everything

> > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must take

> > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing

armour

> > i will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> >

> > Thanks for listening,

> > Sheila (newby)

[Guest guest]

If I may ask, what were you in the hospital for?

QUESTIONS RE: POOR

CONVERSION

> >

> >

> > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are all so

> > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please

excuse me

> > hogging the board....

> >

> > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter, I

was on

> 2

> > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not masses of

> energy

> > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being under-

> > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of T3

and

> T4 in

> > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since.

Still

> not

> > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the

Armour (1

> > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to T3

only

> and

> > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel better,

> lost

> > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the headaches

> arrived

> > daily.

> > All the time felt something was not right, i became sensitive

to

> > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker, and

had

> > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour which

i

> > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was

silly)

> and

> > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe anxiety

> attack,

> > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised somewhat

and

> > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

increase a

> > little.

> > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does

Armour

> seem

> > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have a " build

up

> of T4

> > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give me

> optimum

> > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on the

T3

> only

> > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe and

have

> no

> > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading in

the

> hyper

> > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who cannot

> convert

> > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

> menopausal

> > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

> everything

> > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i must

take

> > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep increasing

> armour i

> > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> >

> > Thanks for listening,

> > Sheila (newby)

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi

It was a culmination of 5 weeks of T3 " hyping " me up abit, going back

onto the Armour without a break - first day 2 grains (I know - its

stupid) and coming off anti-depressants, i had a minor crisis at home

and my body just seemed to go into shock. By midnight that night i

was shaking violently, freezing cold, nauseaus, blood pressure and

pulse high, i really thought i was going to die, i have had panic

attacks in my life but it wasnt like that. After an e.c.g anmd lots

of tests (all fine) i felt myself becoming calmer and the general

opninion is that this was a severe anxiety attack.

I am taking it more slowly with the armour now, 1/2 grain twice a

day, back on the anti-depressants (i can't be without them at the

moment when my thyroid is all over the place) and slowly i am feeling

a little better. still have the nausea, dont have an appetite but i

feel that the T3 upset my body and it is now just starting to settle

down.

Problem is doctor wont do blood test for another 7 weeks, so i would

have to stay on that dose for now but we are going away for the

summer in 7 weeks so i need to do the blood tests before really. Do u

think after say 5 weeks it will be o.k.?

(

Thanks again

> > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor

converter

> you

> > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus the

t4. If

> you

> > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to the

Armour?

> > What are your test results and ranges? Were you splitting the

> Armour

> > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > QUESTIONS RE: POOR

> CONVERSION

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are

all so

> > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please

> excuse me

> > > hogging the board....

> > >

> > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter,

I

> was on

> > 2

> > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not

masses of

> > energy

> > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being

under-

> > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of

T3

> and

> > T4 in

> > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since.

> Still

> > not

> > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the

> Armour (1

> > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to

T3

> only

> > and

> > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel

better,

> > lost

> > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

headaches

> > arrived

> > > daily.

> > > All the time felt something was not right, i became

sensitive

> to

> > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker,

and

> had

> > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour

which

> i

> > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was

> silly)

> > and

> > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe

anxiety

> > attack,

> > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised

somewhat

> and

> > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

> increase a

> > > little.

> > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does

> Armour

> > seem

> > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have

a " build

> up

> > of T4

> > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give

me

> > optimum

> > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on

the

> T3

> > only

> > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe

and

> have

> > no

> > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading

in

> the

> > hyper

> > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who

cannot

> > convert

> > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

> > menopausal

> > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

> > everything

> > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i

must

> take

> > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

increasing

> > armour i

> > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> > >

> > > Thanks for listening,

> > > Sheila (newby)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

If it were me, I would stay on the dose you are at. It may not be where you need

to be at, but it is a start. It takes at least 5 weeks to get the levels up of

t4 to be stable. Tell him that you feel the dose it too low, but agree that you

need to start somewhere. That since you are going away, and since it will be

enough time, ask him if you can be retested in 5 weeks after staying on the 1

grain of Armour and the current levels of anti-depressants? He should go for

that!

QUESTIONS RE: POOR

> CONVERSION

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are

all so

> > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so please

> excuse me

> > > hogging the board....

> > >

> > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor converter,

I

> was on

> > 2

> > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not

masses of

> > energy

> > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being

under-

> > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo of

T3

> and

> > T4 in

> > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever since.

> Still

> > not

> > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on the

> Armour (1

> > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed to

T3

> only

> > and

> > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel

better,

> > lost

> > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

headaches

> > arrived

> > > daily.

> > > All the time felt something was not right, i became

sensitive

> to

> > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee drinker,

and

> had

> > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the Armour

which

> i

> > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which was

> silly)

> > and

> > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe

anxiety

> > attack,

> > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised

somewhat

> and

> > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

> increase a

> > > little.

> > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why does

> Armour

> > seem

> > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have

a " build

> up

> > of T4

> > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally give

me

> > optimum

> > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed on

the

> T3

> > only

> > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i believe

and

> have

> > no

> > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was heading

in

> the

> > hyper

> > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who

cannot

> > convert

> > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres a

> > menopausal

> > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't pin

> > everything

> > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so i

must

> take

> > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

increasing

> > armour i

> > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> > >

> > > Thanks for listening,

> > > Sheila (newby)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Sheila...you seem to be making a lot of changes very quickly. it

takes a while for your body to reach a balance after any

change..imagine a see-saw going up and down after a child has jumped

of it...it takes a time to settle...well your body is like that!

It will take at least four weeks, but better six for your thyroid

levels to settle enough for an accurate blood test after any dose

change!

I have been on Armour for six weeks, and only just reached one and

half grains. I had a few days of feeling awfulbecasue of a sinus

infection and thought I was going hypo again but the antibiotics

quickly got rid of my " hypo " ..... :-)

I think we have to be a bit patient. Our bodies won't heal

overnight, but slowly but surely we will get there!

NPtech will do your bloods for you (£24), but wait four weeks on any

particular dose....and don't take any tablets in the morning when

you go.

Hope this helps

Fluffy

> > > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor

> converter

> > you

> > > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus the

> t4. If

> > you

> > > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to the

> Armour?

> > > What are your test results and ranges? Were you splitting

the

> > Armour

> > > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > > QUESTIONS RE: POOR

> > CONVERSION

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You are

> all so

> > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so

please

> > excuse me

> > > > hogging the board....

> > > >

> > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

converter,

> I

> > was on

> > > 2

> > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not

> masses of

> > > energy

> > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to being

> under-

> > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo

of

> T3

> > and

> > > T4 in

> > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever

since.

> > Still

> > > not

> > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on

the

> > Armour (1

> > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed

to

> T3

> > only

> > > and

> > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel

> better,

> > > lost

> > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

> headaches

> > > arrived

> > > > daily.

> > > > All the time felt something was not right, i became

> sensitive

> > to

> > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

drinker,

> and

> > had

> > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the

Armour

> which

> > i

> > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which

was

> > silly)

> > > and

> > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe

> anxiety

> > > attack,

> > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised

> somewhat

> > and

> > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

> > increase a

> > > > little.

> > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why

does

> > Armour

> > > seem

> > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have

> a " build

> > up

> > > of T4

> > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally

give

> me

> > > optimum

> > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed

on

> the

> > T3

> > > only

> > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i

believe

> and

> > have

> > > no

> > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was

heading

> in

> > the

> > > hyper

> > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who

> cannot

> > > convert

> > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres

a

> > > menopausal

> > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't

pin

> > > everything

> > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so

i

> must

> > take

> > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

> increasing

> > > armour i

> > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Fluffy,

Yes i did make lots of changes quickly, and i so regret it. I feel

awful still and at christmas i saw myself stable and on the road to

recovery by now but its not to be. I will stay where i am because my

body is exhausted at the moment, persistent sinus infection like you,

couldn't finish the course of erythromycin as it made me feel

sicker... re: NPTech blood test, does a doctor have to instigate

them? I was seeing Dr but i feel he has gone in a different

direction lately.....

Thanks so much for your support,

Sheila

> > > > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor

> > converter

> > > you

> > > > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus

the

> > t4. If

> > > you

> > > > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to the

> > Armour?

> > > > What are your test results and ranges? Were you splitting

> the

> > > Armour

> > > > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > > > QUESTIONS RE: POOR

> > > CONVERSION

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You

are

> > all so

> > > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so

> please

> > > excuse me

> > > > > hogging the board....

> > > > >

> > > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

> converter,

> > I

> > > was on

> > > > 2

> > > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not

> > masses of

> > > > energy

> > > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to

being

> > under-

> > > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo

> of

> > T3

> > > and

> > > > T4 in

> > > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever

> since.

> > > Still

> > > > not

> > > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on

> the

> > > Armour (1

> > > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed

> to

> > T3

> > > only

> > > > and

> > > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel

> > better,

> > > > lost

> > > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

> > headaches

> > > > arrived

> > > > > daily.

> > > > > All the time felt something was not right, i became

> > sensitive

> > > to

> > > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

> drinker,

> > and

> > > had

> > > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the

> Armour

> > which

> > > i

> > > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which

> was

> > > silly)

> > > > and

> > > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe

> > anxiety

> > > > attack,

> > > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised

> > somewhat

> > > and

> > > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

> > > increase a

> > > > > little.

> > > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why

> does

> > > Armour

> > > > seem

> > > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have

> > a " build

> > > up

> > > > of T4

> > > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally

> give

> > me

> > > > optimum

> > > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed

> on

> > the

> > > T3

> > > > only

> > > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i

> believe

> > and

> > > have

> > > > no

> > > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was

> heading

> > in

> > > the

> > > > hyper

> > > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who

> > cannot

> > > > convert

> > > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres

> a

> > > > menopausal

> > > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't

> pin

> > > > everything

> > > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so

> i

> > must

> > > take

> > > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

> > increasing

> > > > armour i

> > > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> > > > >

> > > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Jamy (is that your name?)

Thanks for that, yes i will hold out as long as possible and

hopefully before we leave i will get the green light to up the dose.

I also hope that the anti-deprs. will start to kick in now i am back

on them.

I have only been posting here a few days, but i am amazed at the

amount of support, wish i had discovered you all earlier...

Sheila

> > > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor

> converter

> > you

> > > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus

the

> t4. If

> > you

> > > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to the

> Armour?

> > > What are your test results and ranges? Were you splitting

the

> > Armour

> > > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > > QUESTIONS RE: POOR

> > CONVERSION

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You

are

> all so

> > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so

please

> > excuse me

> > > > hogging the board....

> > > >

> > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

converter,

> I

> > was on

> > > 2

> > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not

> masses of

> > > energy

> > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to

being

> under-

> > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo

of

> T3

> > and

> > > T4 in

> > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever

since.

> > Still

> > > not

> > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on

the

> > Armour (1

> > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed

to

> T3

> > only

> > > and

> > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel

> better,

> > > lost

> > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

> headaches

> > > arrived

> > > > daily.

> > > > All the time felt something was not right, i became

> sensitive

> > to

> > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

drinker,

> and

> > had

> > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the

Armour

> which

> > i

> > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which

was

> > silly)

> > > and

> > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe

> anxiety

> > > attack,

> > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised

> somewhat

> > and

> > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

> > increase a

> > > > little.

> > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why

does

> > Armour

> > > seem

> > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have

> a " build

> > up

> > > of T4

> > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally

give

> me

> > > optimum

> > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed

on

> the

> > T3

> > > only

> > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i

believe

> and

> > have

> > > no

> > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was

heading

> in

> > the

> > > hyper

> > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who

> cannot

> > > convert

> > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres

a

> > > menopausal

> > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't

pin

> > > everything

> > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so

i

> must

> > take

> > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

> increasing

> > > armour i

> > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Hello orlando1088, re: NPTech blood test, does a doctor have to instigate

o> them?

I've phoned NPtech a couple of times for the test tubes - the first

time they did not mention a dr the second time they specifically

asked about a DR. I'm not sure whether they would do the test with no

Drs input

o> I was seeing Dr but i feel he has gone in a different

o> direction lately.....

=(

--

Best regards,

Alison

http://www.alisonashwell.com

mailto:alison.ashwell@...

new work uploaded

http://www.artwanted.com/alisonashwell

http://www.voodoochilli.net/artists/alisonashwell/

[Guest guest]

No...just phone NPTech and they will send you a kit. You then go

to a BMI hospital and they will take the blood, then send it off.

NPtech provide clear instructions and a list of BMI hospitals. They

will also do Ferritin for an extra £18.

Re. the erythromycin..ask your doc. for the kids syrup next

time...it's easier on the stomach!

Or try Doxycyline..works well..few side effects for me anyway!!!!

persevere...and maybe it's worth a trip to London to see a Topdoc

there!

Fluffy

> > > > > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor

> > > converter

> > > > you

> > > > > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2 plus

> the

> > > t4. If

> > > > you

> > > > > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4 to

the

> > > Armour?

> > > > > What are your test results and ranges? Were you

splitting

> > the

> > > > Armour

> > > > > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > > > > QUESTIONS RE:

POOR

> > > > CONVERSION

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You

> are

> > > all so

> > > > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so

> > please

> > > > excuse me

> > > > > > hogging the board....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

> > converter,

> > > I

> > > > was on

> > > > > 2

> > > > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good.

Not

> > > masses of

> > > > > energy

> > > > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to

> being

> > > under-

> > > > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a

combo

> > of

> > > T3

> > > > and

> > > > > T4 in

> > > > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever

> > since.

> > > > Still

> > > > > not

> > > > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back

on

> > the

> > > > Armour (1

> > > > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly

changed

> > to

> > > T3

> > > > only

> > > > > and

> > > > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to

feel

> > > better,

> > > > > lost

> > > > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

> > > headaches

> > > > > arrived

> > > > > > daily.

> > > > > > All the time felt something was not right, i

became

> > > sensitive

> > > > to

> > > > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

> > drinker,

> > > and

> > > > had

> > > > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the

> > Armour

> > > which

> > > > i

> > > > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains

which

> > was

> > > > silly)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with

severe

> > > anxiety

> > > > > attack,

> > > > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now

stabilised

> > > somewhat

> > > > and

> > > > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try

to

> > > > increase a

> > > > > > little.

> > > > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why

> > does

> > > > Armour

> > > > > seem

> > > > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i

have

> > > a " build

> > > > up

> > > > > of T4

> > > > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose

finally

> > give

> > > me

> > > > > optimum

> > > > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have

stayed

> > on

> > > the

> > > > T3

> > > > > only

> > > > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i

> > believe

> > > and

> > > > have

> > > > > no

> > > > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was

> > heading

> > > in

> > > > the

> > > > > hyper

> > > > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people

who

> > > cannot

> > > > > convert

> > > > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think

theres

> > a

> > > > > menopausal

> > > > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i

can't

> > pin

> > > > > everything

> > > > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right

so

> > i

> > > must

> > > > take

> > > > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

> > > increasing

> > > > > armour i

> > > > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing

here...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

[Guest guest]

I'll just add..they asked if I was seeing a doc...I told them yes,

and that they had asked me to get the test done. They were fine with

that.

> > > > > > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a poor

> > > > converter

> > > > > you

> > > > > > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2

plus

> > the

> > > > t4. If

> > > > > you

> > > > > > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4

to

> the

> > > > Armour?

> > > > > > What are your test results and ranges? Were you

> splitting

> > > the

> > > > > Armour

> > > > > > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > > > > > QUESTIONS RE:

> POOR

> > > > > CONVERSION

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site.

You

> > are

> > > > all so

> > > > > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so

> > > please

> > > > > excuse me

> > > > > > > hogging the board....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

> > > converter,

> > > > I

> > > > > was on

> > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good.

> Not

> > > > masses of

> > > > > > energy

> > > > > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to

> > being

> > > > under-

> > > > > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a

> combo

> > > of

> > > > T3

> > > > > and

> > > > > > T4 in

> > > > > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it

ever

> > > since.

> > > > > Still

> > > > > > not

> > > > > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back

> on

> > > the

> > > > > Armour (1

> > > > > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly

> changed

> > > to

> > > > T3

> > > > > only

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to

> feel

> > > > better,

> > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

> > > > headaches

> > > > > > arrived

> > > > > > > daily.

> > > > > > > All the time felt something was not right, i

> became

> > > > sensitive

> > > > > to

> > > > > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

> > > drinker,

> > > > and

> > > > > had

> > > > > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the

> > > Armour

> > > > which

> > > > > i

> > > > > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains

> which

> > > was

> > > > > silly)

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with

> severe

> > > > anxiety

> > > > > > attack,

> > > > > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now

> stabilised

> > > > somewhat

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will

try

> to

> > > > > increase a

> > > > > > > little.

> > > > > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter

why

> > > does

> > > > > Armour

> > > > > > seem

> > > > > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i

> have

> > > > a " build

> > > > > up

> > > > > > of T4

> > > > > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose

> finally

> > > give

> > > > me

> > > > > > optimum

> > > > > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have

> stayed

> > > on

> > > > the

> > > > > T3

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i

> > > believe

> > > > and

> > > > > have

> > > > > > no

> > > > > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was

> > > heading

> > > > in

> > > > > the

> > > > > > hyper

> > > > > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me,

people

> who

> > > > cannot

> > > > > > convert

> > > > > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think

> theres

> > > a

> > > > > > menopausal

> > > > > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i

> can't

> > > pin

> > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat

right

> so

> > > i

> > > > must

> > > > > take

> > > > > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i

keep

> > > > increasing

> > > > > > armour i

> > > > > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing

> here...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Yes, that is my name. I would contact him now and set the time to go in for

labs. You need the results before you even think of changing the meds level. If

the appt to do lab work is in 5 weeks, you will have the results a week before

your vacation. Fluffy was right. You need a rest from the roller coaster.

QUESTIONS RE: POOR

> > CONVERSION

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site. You

are

> all so

> > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions, so

please

> > excuse me

> > > > hogging the board....

> > > >

> > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

converter,

> I

> > was on

> > > 2

> > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good. Not

> masses of

> > > energy

> > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due to

being

> under-

> > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a combo

of

> T3

> > and

> > > T4 in

> > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it ever

since.

> > Still

> > > not

> > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went back on

the

> > Armour (1

> > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly changed

to

> T3

> > only

> > > and

> > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start to feel

> better,

> > > lost

> > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and the

> headaches

> > > arrived

> > > > daily.

> > > > All the time felt something was not right, i became

> sensitive

> > to

> > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

drinker,

> and

> > had

> > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on the

Armour

> which

> > i

> > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains which

was

> > silly)

> > > and

> > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with severe

> anxiety

> > > attack,

> > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now stabilised

> somewhat

> > and

> > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will try to

> > increase a

> > > > little.

> > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter why

does

> > Armour

> > > seem

> > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i have

> a " build

> > up

> > > of T4

> > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose finally

give

> me

> > > optimum

> > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have stayed

on

> the

> > T3

> > > only

> > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although i

believe

> and

> > have

> > > no

> > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i was

heading

> in

> > the

> > > hyper

> > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me, people who

> cannot

> > > convert

> > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think theres

a

> > > menopausal

> > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i can't

pin

> > > everything

> > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat right so

i

> must

> > take

> > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i keep

> increasing

> > > armour i

> > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing here...

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Sounds like great advice for these circumstances, Jamy... good job!

Topper () *who was wondering why you were so quiet lately....*

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 12:23:11 -0700 " JAMY "

writes:

> If it were me, I would stay on the dose you are at. It may not be

> where you need to be at, but it is a start. It takes at least 5

> weeks to get the levels up of t4 to be stable. Tell him that you

> feel the dose it too low, but agree that you need to start

> somewhere. That since you are going away, and since it will be

> enough time, ask him if you can be retested in 5 weeks after staying

> on the 1 grain of Armour and the current levels of anti-depressants?

> He should go for that!

[Guest guest]

To Fluffy, Jamy and Alison (apologies if i forgot anyone)

You have all cheered me up tonight. With Dr going off lately,

i dont feel as if anyone is " on my side " , i will stay on this dose

until the bloods can be done, definitely ferritin as well. I am so

determined to feel better. Has anyone been treated by Dr Skinner, he

seems to be my only hope next. Am going to take a look at my diet,

and try (fingers crossed) to take walks now that the weather is

better, tough when you have no energy. When i climb three flights of

stairs at work and out of breath at the top its more likely to be

down to the fact that i am simply not fit.

As for the sinus infection , i assume it will be back as i threw away

the erythromycin so i will remember to ask for doxycyline.

Thanks again

Sheila

> > > > > > > > Armour has t3 in it which is why if you are a

poor

> > > > > converter

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > feel better. It is giving to the t3 as well as t2

> plus

> > > the

> > > > > t4. If

> > > > > > you

> > > > > > > are a poor converter, why would you have added t4

> to

> > the

> > > > > Armour?

> > > > > > > What are your test results and ranges? Were you

> > splitting

> > > > the

> > > > > > Armour

> > > > > > > to at least 2 times a day?

> > > > > > > > QUESTIONS RE:

> > POOR

> > > > > > CONVERSION

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Dear All (again - sorry i am new to this site.

> You

> > > are

> > > > > all so

> > > > > > > > informative and I have sooooo many questions,

so

> > > > please

> > > > > > excuse me

> > > > > > > > hogging the board....

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have been told by a Doctor that i am a poor

> > > > converter,

> > > > > I

> > > > > > was on

> > > > > > > 2

> > > > > > > > grains Armour last summer and felt pretty good.

> > Not

> > > > > masses of

> > > > > > > energy

> > > > > > > > like others (i wish) but perhaps that was due

to

> > > being

> > > > > under-

> > > > > > > > medicated. Messed about around christmas with a

> > combo

> > > > of

> > > > > T3

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > T4 in

> > > > > > > > very low doses and i have been paying for it

> ever

> > > > since.

> > > > > > Still

> > > > > > > not

> > > > > > > > got up to the level i was last summer. Went

back

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > > Armour (1

> > > > > > > > grain) in January but 6 weeks ago i stupidly

> > changed

> > > > to

> > > > > T3

> > > > > > only

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > worked up to 50 mgs. I must admit i did start

to

> > feel

> > > > > better,

> > > > > > > lost

> > > > > > > > weight, quickly but still the legs ached and

the

> > > > > headaches

> > > > > > > arrived

> > > > > > > > daily.

> > > > > > > > All the time felt something was not right, i

> > became

> > > > > sensitive

> > > > > > to

> > > > > > > > caffeine which was strange as i am a big coffee

> > > > drinker,

> > > > > and

> > > > > > had

> > > > > > > > blood sugars problems. Decided to go back on

the

> > > > Armour

> > > > > which

> > > > > > i

> > > > > > > > started last weekend. (took 2 over a day grains

> > which

> > > > was

> > > > > > silly)

> > > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > then i was taken to hospital on Wednesday with

> > severe

> > > > > anxiety

> > > > > > > attack,

> > > > > > > > never felt so ill in my life. I have now

> > stabilised

> > > > > somewhat

> > > > > > and

> > > > > > > > staying on 1 grain until next week when i will

> try

> > to

> > > > > > increase a

> > > > > > > > little.

> > > > > > > > My question is this - if i am a poor converter

> why

> > > > does

> > > > > > Armour

> > > > > > > seem

> > > > > > > > to suit me? if i continued to increase would i

> > have

> > > > > a " build

> > > > > > up

> > > > > > > of T4

> > > > > > > > going nowhere? or would increasing the dose

> > finally

> > > > give

> > > > > me

> > > > > > > optimum

> > > > > > > > health that i so desire? Perhaps i should have

> > stayed

> > > > on

> > > > > the

> > > > > > T3

> > > > > > > only

> > > > > > > > and increased until i felt fabulous? (although

i

> > > > believe

> > > > > and

> > > > > > have

> > > > > > > no

> > > > > > > > scientific evidence to back this up - that i

was

> > > > heading

> > > > > in

> > > > > > the

> > > > > > > hyper

> > > > > > > > direction. This has long since puzzled me,

> people

> > who

> > > > > cannot

> > > > > > > convert

> > > > > > > > yet seem to do well on Armour.

> > > > > > > > Still got headaches on Armour etc. but i think

> > theres

> > > > a

> > > > > > > menopausal

> > > > > > > > problem to be addressed at a later stage, so i

> > can't

> > > > pin

> > > > > > > everything

> > > > > > > > onto being " hypo " , i am not fit and dont eat

> right

> > so

> > > > i

> > > > > must

> > > > > > take

> > > > > > > > responsibility but it intrigues me that if i

> keep

> > > > > increasing

> > > > > > > armour i

> > > > > > > > will have a t4 overload ??? What am i missing

> > here...

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Thanks for listening,

> > > > > > > > Sheila (newby)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

I won't repeat anything that Jamy and Fluffy and /Topper have said so far;

they give great advice....

I just wanted to make a couple of other comments about the anti-depressants.

Just a few thoughts as you seek to get improved treatment of your thyroid and

depression issues:

* Thyroid problems are well known for causing a type of depression that is

physical in origin and as you get proper thyroid treatment, you will likely not

need the anti-depressants. Like most of us you were probably prescribed them

without a complete picture of your physical (thyroid) status. If only the

doctors didn't hand out the SSRI's so easily and looked deeper for the cause.

* SSRI antidepressant usage affects your body's ability to use your thyroid

hormone, so it's a catch 22 for you right now. It will be best to get off SLOWLY

and use natural alternatives all the way around. Let your body rest a bit first,

and ask you go up with thyroid hormone you could try going down again SLOWLY on

the AD's. Don't be afraid to try again.

* When you tried to go off of them before - you went MUCH, MUCH too fast.

SSRI's (especially certain ones with a shorter half life like Paxil, Effexor,

etc) need to be tapered very slowly. Even people without thyroid issues have

many of the withdrawal problems that you mentioned during withdrawal and for a

period of time afterwards - it's what drives them back to the drug thinking that

they NEED it. Doctors will even say " see, it just shows you have a chemical

imbalance and your body needs this, in fact, let's up your dosage... "

* If you want to try to get off of them again, you must do it SLOWLY. Much

slower than docs recommend. You are likely to have some withdrawal issues, but

they can be minimized with careful tapering.

Please visit these websites for information and advice about getting off of

SSRI's with a minimum of discomfort.

www.prozactruth.com

www.antidepressantsfacts.com

Here are a couple of informational websites on the risks and concerns of SSRI's:

www.drugawareness.org

www.aspire.org

There are also yahoo support groups to find others that have experinced this and

can help

prozacawareness

and informational research oriented groups:

SSRI-Research

prozactruth

SSRI's use can actually set up a chemical imbalance of serotonin, but you would

have been much better off treating the imbalance of thryoid hormone in your

system and things would have been better. Instead these SSRI's played havoc with

your brain chemistry and the thyroid went improperly treated. As you can

probably tell, I've BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. I'm off of SSRI's for a few years

now. They were given to me after a basic TSH test came back in normal ranges

four years ago.. It wasn't until I started having a fever from untreated

auto-immune issues a year or tow later that anyone took me seriously.After all,

you may be fatigued and have chronic pain with depression but I don't know ayone

who gets a fever when they're depressed. Thank God, I recognized the SSRI's

were making me feel worse long before that. I'm still trying to find my correct

thyroid balance and treatment,but the AD's were only masking the real problem.

I just wanted to tell you -that you weren't alone in feeling all those symptoms

-many of the worst ones were the SSRI withdrawal. Good luck and this list is

very supportive and helpful!

Kate

a..

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kate... for sharing your knowledge of SSRI's... it's great that

we have such an extensive knowledge base in the group!

Topper ()

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 17:02:05 -0500 " Kate Kopasz "

writes:

< snip >

> I just wanted to make a couple of other comments about the

> anti-depressants.

> Just a few thoughts as you seek to get improved treatment of your

> thyroid and depression issues:

< snip >

[Guest guest]

Hi Kate

I am taking Dothiepin which is one of the old style " trycyclic "

drugs. I know long term i must comeoff them, however i am haf the

recomended dose for depression (75mg) and i just felt this week that

until i have a modicum of stability with my thyroid i would rather

put the withdrawal on hold for a while. It is a vicious circle and i

have had treatment for depression since childhood.

Thanks for your suport

Sheila

> Sheila,

> I won't repeat anything that Jamy and Fluffy and /Topper have

said so far; they give great advice....

> I just wanted to make a couple of other comments about the anti-

depressants.

> Just a few thoughts as you seek to get improved treatment of your

thyroid and depression issues:

>

> * Thyroid problems are well known for causing a type of depression

that is physical in origin and as you get proper thyroid treatment,

you will likely not need the anti-depressants. Like most of us you

were probably prescribed them without a complete picture of your

physical (thyroid) status. If only the doctors didn't hand out the

SSRI's so easily and looked deeper for the cause.

>

> * SSRI antidepressant usage affects your body's ability to use your

thyroid hormone, so it's a catch 22 for you right now. It will be

best to get off SLOWLY and use natural alternatives all the way

around. Let your body rest a bit first, and ask you go up with

thyroid hormone you could try going down again SLOWLY on the AD's.

Don't be afraid to try again.

>

> * When you tried to go off of them before - you went MUCH, MUCH too

fast. SSRI's (especially certain ones with a shorter half life like

Paxil, Effexor, etc) need to be tapered very slowly. Even people

without thyroid issues have many of the withdrawal problems that you

mentioned during withdrawal and for a period of time afterwards -

it's what drives them back to the drug thinking that they NEED it.

Doctors will even say " see, it just shows you have a chemical

imbalance and your body needs this, in fact, let's up your

dosage... "

>

> * If you want to try to get off of them again, you must do it

SLOWLY. Much slower than docs recommend. You are likely to have

some withdrawal issues, but they can be minimized with careful

tapering.

>

> Please visit these websites for information and advice about

getting off of SSRI's with a minimum of discomfort.

> www.prozactruth.com

> www.antidepressantsfacts.com

>

> Here are a couple of informational websites on the risks and

concerns of SSRI's:

> www.drugawareness.org

> www.aspire.org

>

> There are also yahoo support groups to find others that have

experinced this and can help

> prozacawareness

> and informational research oriented groups:

> SSRI-Research

> prozactruth

>

> SSRI's use can actually set up a chemical imbalance of serotonin,

but you would have been much better off treating the imbalance of

thryoid hormone in your system and things would have been better.

Instead these SSRI's played havoc with your brain chemistry and the

thyroid went improperly treated. As you can probably tell, I've BEEN

THERE, DONE THAT. I'm off of SSRI's for a few years now. They were

given to me after a basic TSH test came back in normal ranges four

years ago.. It wasn't until I started having a fever from untreated

auto-immune issues a year or tow later that anyone took me

seriously.After all, you may be fatigued and have chronic pain with

depression but I don't know ayone who gets a fever when they're

depressed. Thank God, I recognized the SSRI's were making me feel

worse long before that. I'm still trying to find my correct thyroid

balance and treatment,but the AD's were only masking the real problem.

>

> I just wanted to tell you -that you weren't alone in feeling all

those symptoms -many of the worst ones were the SSRI withdrawal.

Good luck and this list is very supportive and helpful!

>

> Kate

>

>

>

> a..

>

>

>

>

>