Re: Question, may be controversial

[Guest guest]

We simply filled out a religious waver and will get the old fashioned

vaccines 1 at a time instead of combined as we see fit.

Ron

[Guest guest]

I don't think I can help much as I am in the UK, but over here it is a parents

choice to immunise or not. There is absolutely no come back on the doctors at

all. Andy has had all his shots except the MMR booster which was due this year.

We discussed our reasons for not having it with our GP, he agreed, and wrote in

Andy's notes that we were not to be harrassed over this issue. BTW, I LOVE my GP

;-)

The GP said that with his *doctors* hat on, he had to tell us that the MMR was

safe and effective, but with his *parent/doctor* hat on he also felt that since

NO drug is 100% safe and effective, why should the MMR be?

Not a lot of help though, eh?

Ali

Karin wrote:I don't know if this topic is allowed here but I would really

appreciate

some input even off the list if necessary.

I have seen some of Jake's symptoms almost from the time he was born. I

delayed immunizations and only allowed them on my schedule (not because

I was worried about autism or anything, but I just believe two months is

too young to start shots, especially so many at once unless there is a

very good reason). Anyway I researched the topic pretty thoroughly and

being a homebirth Midwife and having a background in Homeopathy, you can

imagine the mindset of the people I associate with. A lot of people

were very surprised that I decided to immunize him. I waited to start

the shots when he was 6 months old and I only let him start with a few

of them. He had his MMR at 18 months. He never had any reaction to his

shots, no fussiness, no fever, no skin reactions even. I did give him a

homeopathic remedy after each shot, but I don't know if that made any

difference at all. Anyway.....

Here is the controversial part: I'm sure that all of you are aware of

all the people connecting autism with vaccinations. (Not all autism but

some cases) I really don't know of any medical research that supports

it, but I have heard and read so much about it that I tend to think that

where there is smoke there is fire. I asked Jake's pediatrician about

signing a medical waiver for him because I really don't want to give him

any more shots now that we have this going on. It may not mean

anything, but I don't want to take a chance. Jake's Doctor, who is open

to non-immunizing said that he has tried to write up medical excuses

before for this and that he has been challenged and that they (the

school systems, health department) don't accept an autism type disorder

to be an excuse not to immunize.

If this is not to be discussed on the list, then I have no problem with

that, but please send any opinions pro or con to me as I like to have a

full picture. I would like to know if you decided to immunize, even

after knowing about the ASD and if you are concerned about it at all and

what you have done to keep your child in school if you haven't immunized.

Thank you very much,

Karin Barasa

mother@...

[Guest guest]

Karin -

First of all....I know that you can sign a religious waiver to allow for

non-immunization. Did that make sense? (I have some wicked head

cold/allergy thing going on).

Anyhow, I did immunize Jacqui. (She was not dx'd until she was 5).

I feel Jacqui's Autism is genetic, but I CAN tell you that if I had to do it

all over again, I would NOT have given her the Hep B vaccine, and I will not

have her immunized for chicken pox.

My 2 cents.

Penny

[Guest guest]

Penny wrote:

> I feel Jacqui's Autism is genetic, but I CAN tell you that if I had to do it

> all over again, I would NOT have given her the Hep B vaccine, and I will not

> have her immunized for chicken pox.

I am strongly opposed to these particular shots as well. How will you

get by without the chicken pox shot? Is she past the age for requiring

that? I went ahead and started the Hep B series this past year but I'm

not going to finish it. I haven't let him have the chicken pox shot.

[Guest guest]

Good question...I'll cross THAT bridge when I get to it...

Penny

Re: Question, may be controversial

Penny wrote:

> I feel Jacqui's Autism is genetic, but I CAN tell you that if I had to do

it

> all over again, I would NOT have given her the Hep B vaccine, and I will

not

> have her immunized for chicken pox.

I am strongly opposed to these particular shots as well. How will you

get by without the chicken pox shot?

[Guest guest]

Karin~ Both my boys got there intital MMR vac. I did not notice any

change after, both of them had obvious delay prior. I did refuse the

booster for both of them and have expemtions for both. I figure when

there is a question and no answer about the issue, I wasn't going to

chance my children regressing at all with a 2nd MMR.I am not saying i

beleive that it is a cause, or that I don't.... I really don't know

but I would rather be safe than sorry.:)

Amy mom to

Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASDs

[Guest guest]

I know there are ways of getting around doing any shots. There are medical,

religious, and philosophical exemptions. I don't think your dr even has to

give the specifics as to why it is not medically advisable for the child to

receive the shot - I think he just has to say he shouldn't get them. The

school district will lie to you and tell you you have to have them and

there's no way around it. Your best bet is to try to find a local person

who has gone through all this - try your state autism list or your local

FEAT group - and they can help guide you through it and tell you what forms

you need & what to say on them.

Mikey had all his shots through age 2. He had mild-moderate reactions to

every single one, but my drs insisted that this was normal and safe. After

one of his DPTs he screamed for 3 hours - normal and safe according to my dr

& the ER. I recently learned this is a sign of brain swelling. Normal and

safe, right? Sure. After Mikey's 9 month shots he stopped crawling and

talking, and he's stayed behind since then. Our dr told us there was

nothing to worry about & we continued with his shots on schedule. We are

now filing a vaccine injury claim on his behalf.

With Gabe we did 1 or 2 shots at a time, and gave him 1-3 months between

them. We let our dr pick the " most important " shots & tried to keep on

schedule with those. We will not do the MMR or chicken pox for religious

reasons (they are made with aborted fetal tissue), or the prevnar because we

just don't feel it is necessary. We had planned to give him the measles &

mumps as single injections (rather than a combonation shot). Gabe never had

any problems with any of these shots until his final HIB at his 12 month

appt. By the time we got home he was running a fever & he ran it for 3

days; nothing would bring it down but it didn't go over 102. He was clingy

and fussy for about a week afterwards. Since that time we've begun to see

signs of sensory integration problems - toe-walking, spinning,

hand-flapping, head-banging, the list goes on. Now maybe this is just

coincidence, but right now I really don't think he'll be getting any more

shots, and I don't think the new baby will be getting any either.

Keep the questions coming.

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

Karin,

I don't believe vaccines caused 's autism; evidence of it was present

from the moment he entered this world. BUT, after his diagnosis, I refused

all further vaccinations. Why take a chance? Some people can prove a

severe change in their child after the MMR, so why should I take the chance

of perhaps losing all the progress has made? He hasn't had an

immunization since he was a toddler.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

Hi Ron

:-)

Re: Question, may be controversial

We simply filled out a religious waver and will get the old fashioned

vaccines 1 at a time instead of combined as we see fit.

Ron

[Guest guest]

I decided to still get Karson's and my daughter's immuizations, even after

Karson was diagnonsised PDD. I don't think the immunizations caused my son's

delayments. That reason being, when I first had him and we were still in the

hospital, I had this feeling in my gut something was wrong. He was very badly

jundiced, but I knew there was something more. The only immunization I will not

get for either of my children is the chicken pox vaccine, only because I don't

want them to take the chance of getting chicken pox when they're older and then

it can be fatal. But that's just me and my decision for my kids. I have never

and will never judge anyone for their own decisions. Not my place to do so:).

Amie

Question, may be controversial

I don't know if this topic is allowed here but I would really appreciate

some input even off the list if necessary.

I have seen some of Jake's symptoms almost from the time he was born. I

delayed immunizations and only allowed them on my schedule (not because

I was worried about autism or anything, but I just believe two months is

too young to start shots, especially so many at once unless there is a

very good reason). Anyway I researched the topic pretty thoroughly and

being a homebirth Midwife and having a background in Homeopathy, you can

imagine the mindset of the people I associate with. A lot of people

were very surprised that I decided to immunize him. I waited to start

the shots when he was 6 months old and I only let him start with a few

of them. He had his MMR at 18 months. He never had any reaction to his

shots, no fussiness, no fever, no skin reactions even. I did give him a

homeopathic remedy after each shot, but I don't know if that made any

difference at all. Anyway.....

Here is the controversial part: I'm sure that all of you are aware of

all the people connecting autism with vaccinations. (Not all autism but

some cases) I really don't know of any medical research that supports

it, but I have heard and read so much about it that I tend to think that

where there is smoke there is fire. I asked Jake's pediatrician about

signing a medical waiver for him because I really don't want to give him

any more shots now that we have this going on. It may not mean

anything, but I don't want to take a chance. Jake's Doctor, who is open

to non-immunizing said that he has tried to write up medical excuses

before for this and that he has been challenged and that they (the

school systems, health department) don't accept an autism type disorder

to be an excuse not to immunize.

If this is not to be discussed on the list, then I have no problem with

that, but please send any opinions pro or con to me as I like to have a

full picture. I would like to know if you decided to immunize, even

after knowing about the ASD and if you are concerned about it at all and

what you have done to keep your child in school if you haven't immunized.

Thank you very much,

Karin Barasa

mother@...

[Guest guest]

My opinion is that Mark was doing great until the MMR vacine. He hit

all his milestones early, walking/running at 9 mos. Talking at 6

mos. He was saying all kinds of words. Didn't mind crowds, liked

people, was the perfect child, always happy. After the MMR that all

seemed to change. On his 2 yr B-day all he could say was " owie "

and " oh-oh " . Didn't like people, hated crowds, always throwing

tantrums. I'm not sure if I'm right but I think it was the MMR.

There is no history of autism in my family, and none that I know of

in my x husbands family.

I want to get the exemption for the booster, but I thought I remember

someone saying that in WI we can't do that. I think it might have

been mentioned on this list. Does anyone know for sure? I don't

want my little boy to regress anymore if I can help it.

Tina W.

[Guest guest]

ny got Violently ill after his MMR shot. It was given with two

other shots at 12 months. We had just come back from vacation a week

before he got the shots so I'm not sure how much of a factor that was

in his subsequent behavior. All I know he was vomitting and had a

fever for about a week after and was acting very strangely. Crying

and very clingy. Then he calmed down. He was starting to say a few

words before the shot and in my calendar I had indicated that he was

waving Bye and he stopped doing that after the shot also.

He never had stranger anxiety as a baby. So frankly I'm up in the air

about whether the shot caused the autism or he was born with it. He's

never had any of the bowel problems associated with mmr caused autism.

Also I just saw a web site that said that premature cutting of the

umbilical cord can cause autism, this is done on premature infants and

ny was born at 32 weeks. So i have no idea what could have caused

his autism.

jen

>Karin~ Both my boys got there intital MMR vac. I did not notice any

>change after, both of them had obvious delay prior. I did refuse the

>booster for both of them and have expemtions for both. I figure when

>there is a question and no answer about the issue, I wasn't going to

>chance my children regressing at all with a 2nd MMR.I am not saying i

>beleive that it is a cause, or that I don't.... I really don't know

>but I would rather be safe than sorry.:)

>

>Amy mom to

>Noah 6 Lucas 8 ASDs

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

EXACTLY what went through at 12 months!

>abe never had >any problems with any of these shots until his final HIB at his

12 month

>appt. By the time we got home he was running a fever & he ran it for 3

>days; nothing would bring it down but it didn't go over 102. He was clingy

>and fussy for about a week afterwards

[Guest guest]

Karson did all that late. He sat at 9 mos, crawled at 11 mos and walked 12-13

months. But wasn't speaking at all. I am wondering about genetic. I am

adopted and found my birthparents 2 wks ago. Told them my son has medical

problems and I would like some med info. They still haven't called--sigh. I am

gonna print out a form and send it to them every month. I would really love to

know what caused Karson's autism. As, I'm sure all parents would like that

answer. If they would just respond, then it would narrow down my questions

some. The form is like a routine form you fill out at the DR.s office. Just

detailing both their backgrounds. They got married 12 yrs after I was born and

adopted, so I found em both at the same time. Which was pretty lucky. They

never had any more children, so I can't go searching for the sibling route. Has

anyone else, thought it was genetic. Do any of you have history of autism in

your backgrounds? Amie

Karson 3 PDD-NOS

Peyton 19 mos NT

Re: Question, may be controversial

EXACTLY what went through at 12 months!

>abe never had >any problems with any of these shots until his final HIB at his

12 month

>appt. By the time we got home he was running a fever & he ran it for 3

>days; nothing would bring it down but it didn't go over 102. He was clingy

>and fussy for about a week afterwards

[Guest guest]

No history of Autism in my family but there is alot of

mental illness on both sides so i'm not sure if that

has any bearing. Also ny walked at 17 months,

very late.

>Karson did all that late. He sat at 9 mos, crawled at 11 mos and walked 12-13

months. But wasn't speaking at all. I am wondering about genetic. I am

adopted and found my birthparents 2 wks ago. Told them my son has medical

problems and I would like some med info. They still haven't called--sigh. I am

gonna print out a form and send it to them every month. I would really love to

know what caused Karson's autism. As, I'm sure all parents would like that

answer. If they would just respond, then it would narrow down my questions

some. The form is like a routine form you fill out at the DR.s office. Just

detailing both their backgrounds. They got married 12 yrs after I was born and

adopted, so I found em both at the same time. Which was pretty lucky. They

never had any more children, so I can't go searching for the sibling route. Has

anyone else, thought it was genetic. Do any of you have history of autism in

your backgrounds? Amie

>Karson 3 PDD-NOS

>Peyton 19 mos NT

>

> Re: Question, may be controversial

>

>

>EXACTLY what went through at 12 months!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>abe never had >any problems with any of these shots until his final HIB at his

12 month

>>appt. By the time we got home he was running a fever & he ran it for 3

>>days; nothing would bring it down but it didn't go over 102. He was clingy

>>and fussy for about a week afterwards

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Amie....That is BIG news....Wow.

>>>>>>

I am adopted and found my birthparents 2 wks ago.

<<<<<<<

[Guest guest]

There's no history of autism or mental retardation in either mine nor

my husband's families. His family does have a history of seizures so

it wasn't that big of a surprise that had seizures (from

birth). My grandmother had Alzheimer's which I understand there may

be some link to autism there.

However, had a social smile at 4 months, was rarely ever fussy,

liked to be swaddled in her bed, walked at 12 months, and had a

pincher grasp on time too. However, she had a very bad reaction to

the 3rd DTP and the 2nd Hib she received at 6 months. She had them

both on the same day. After that, the light seemed to go out in her

eyes and she seemed a lot more confused and unfocused. She developed

touch and sound sensitivities, lost her social smile for 4 months,

rarely responded to people around her, would not babble back,

developed unreasoning fears... the list goes on and on and on.

By 9 months I was asking her pediatricians what was wrong. They all

said she'd outgrow her language delays. Yeah right! My child is

mentally handicapped. I know she's in the severe to moderate mentally

retarded range, regardless of the accuracy of IQ testing.

At 9 months, I told the doctor she acted a lot like a child with

autism. I was told that if she were autistic, I would know it.

About a year after her diagnosis at 6, I sent the service a letter

telling them that I wasn't casting any blame, but that they needed to

listen to their patient's mothers a bit more carefully. I also sent a

copy of her eval & dx. Needless to say, they never responded.

All of my kids have been immunized. At the time, the only concerns

about immunizations and autism I'd heard all surrounded the MMR.

had problems with the Hib & DTaP not the MMR.

's almost 11 so she's older than most of the listmembers' kids

and a lot of information has come to light since she received her

shots. Would I do the shots again, knowing what I know now? I don't

know. I really don't. I think if I did do them, I would insist on

single vaccines and spread over a longer time. Plus, I would not

start at 2 months like so many doctors want to do. I would wait until

the kids' weights were much higher.

Tina

[Guest guest]

>

I am wondering about genetic. I am adopted and found my birthparents

2 wks ago. Told them my son has medical problems and I would like

some med info. They still haven't called--sigh. I am gonna print

out a form and send it to them every month.

>

I'm glad you were able to find them. I hope they finally respond with

some information.

Tina

[Guest guest]

Thank you Tina--me too. Medical info is important. If they don't want a

relationship w/ me--that's fine. I have been givin a good life and family. I

have lived w/o them for 29 yrs, I sure can live w/o them for 29 yrs more:). It

just irritates me, they can't pick up a phone or pen and give me med info.

Grr--amie

Re: Question, may be controversial

>

I am wondering about genetic. I am adopted and found my birthparents

2 wks ago. Told them my son has medical problems and I would like

some med info. They still haven't called--sigh. I am gonna print

out a form and send it to them every month.

>

I'm glad you were able to find them. I hope they finally respond with

some information.

Tina

[Guest guest]

Well Penny--not really, coz it's not one of those happy adoption reunions one

would see on Montel and such. I have always had a gut feeling if I ever located

them, it wouldn't be a welcome, so I'm not hugely disappointed. I know some of

my family background now--ie, their names, what state they live in,

circumstances surrounding my adoption, so I don't feel like such a missing link

anymore. So, that was a positive side to it. Also, my birthmom(when she found

out I was looking for her) the middle person who found her for me, said she

sounded really excited, it's just my birthfather. He sounded anxious and almost

paranoid like, I am a paranoid person by nature, so I know where I get that from

as well<wink>. Thanx tho for the wows, I guess it is big news in a way--not

sure, I'm still kinda pissed they won't bother to give me some med info. After

that, then I will walk away and never look back. Amie

RE: Question, may be controversial

Wow, Amie....That is BIG news....Wow.

>>>>>>

I am adopted and found my birthparents 2 wks ago.

<<<<<<<

[Guest guest]

Amie

we are in the process of adopting . He has been with us 8 years. His

bio family also refuses any medical info. We have tried to express just how

important this is and their veiw is " so what its not my problem " GRRRR!!!

All we know is was normal development and functioning until 9 mo old

tha siezure so bad they life flighted him and than found he had lead

poisioning. he was full term. =That is it. and the only reason we know it is

because he was a foster child to us first and we got this info from the

agency on placement. Its really to bad that they are being this way my heart

goes to you for not getting the info you want

hugs

becky

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

>That reason being, when I first had him and we were still in the hospital,

I had this feeling in my gut something was wrong. He was very badly

jundiced, but I knew there was something more.

Amie, I had the same feeling about . He was badly jaundiced too, and he

could NOT tolerate skin-to-skin contact. He also REFUSED to be swaddled,

screaming when he was. He was like no other baby I'd ever seen.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

> Also I just saw a web site that said that premature cutting of the

> umbilical cord can cause autism, this is done on premature infants and

> ny was born at 32 weeks. So i have no idea what could have caused

> his autism.

>

>

> jen

I saw that website too, Jen, and FWIW I think it's a load of crap.

Every single one of us has done something someone says causes autism.

Jacquie

[Guest guest]

>Has anyone else, thought it was genetic. Do any of you have history of

autism in your backgrounds? Amie

I believe 's is genetic. There is no autism in our backgrounds, unless

you count that Marc and I both APPEAR to be on the spectrum -- but that's

not confirmed. But there is a lot of chronic mental illness in my family,

with a couple cases of bipolar disorder -- and they have found that autism

CAN appear on the same gene that bipolar can appear on. Since I am bipolar,

I feel I probably passed that gene on to him.

Also, the fact he was so different from birth just screams genetic to me.

Jacquie

-who's not classifying autism as a mental illness.

PS -- Temple Grandin says there are three things in a family history that

can point to genetics. Can anyone remember them? I just know that we had

them all.

[Guest guest]

> About a year after her diagnosis at 6, I sent the service a letter

> telling them that I wasn't casting any blame, but that they needed to

> listen to their patient's mothers a bit more carefully. I also sent a

> copy of her eval & dx. Needless to say, they never responded.

I always WANTED to do that to the doctors who told me 'boys talk late',

'he'll talk when he's ready,' and 'let's see about getting YOU some

counselling for your anxiety.'

Good for you, Tina!

Jacquie