Re: listening

[Guest guest]

Sophie,

If the deal was you would support her while she went to school, tell her one

course is not enough to be considered a full time student and that she can

certainly get a job to help pay her way.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: Re: listening

Dear openjoyful,

Some therapists (the one I had for a few years) tell me, just what you did

(let her screw up, don't wake her for work etc). Others (marriage counselor)

tell me Wake her, Push her, make her do things she should do. Both seem to know

what they are doing and have lots of experience. So I do get confused.

I try not to bail her out, much as I can. But, by having her live at home,

paying her health insurance, food, electric, one course at community college,

books for the course, metrocard, her meds ( of course), cat food for her cat,

etc, I am " enabling " her to live a life in which she ONLY takes one course, and

does nothing else at all (except get high every day). I don't know how long I

can, or should, do this.

Sophie

openjoyful wrote:

Sophie,

I would imagine you would have to be a compassionate individual to

be involved with teaching (or any helping profession). I can see

that one could kind of get paralyzed, but I don't think compassion

involves solving someone's problem for them, just perhaps listening

or validating their feelings. I didn't read the entire book " Walking

on Eggshells " yet (it's in the stack!) but I remember seeing one

chapter which dealt with our reactions to the bp's stating that they

had a problem. The authors suggest listening, acknowledging their

concern, and agreeing that yes, you understand they have a problem.

But do not solve it.

I think that sometimes we as parents want to fix our kids problems -

I did this all the time for my daughter when she was younger. And I

still have the urge to rescue her or solve problems or manage

things, but I have to remind myself to back off, leave the room or

get out of the house. Don't wake her up for work, don't review and

line up her schedule. Let her forget, screw up and have to work it

out for herself. And you know what? She's a lot better at it than I

gave her credit for.

Carolyn

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > My name is Sophie and I have been reading your

> > > > posts

> > > > > > > for the past few weeks. There are many

> > > > similarities

> > > > > > > between your daughters' behavior and that of

> > > > my

> > > > > > > nineteen year old. She does not openly rage

> > > > much,

> > > > > > > but she has a lot of rage inside her. SHe has

> > > > done

> > > > > > > cutting, smokes a lot of pot, has been

> > > > hospitalized

> > > > > > > twice, had to go to five high schools before

> > > > she

> > > > > > > graduated, has done a " suicide attempt " (??)

> > > > and

> > > > > > > lots of histrionic behavior. She has been

> > > > diagnosed

> > > > > > > BPD. The main thing is huge lack of self

> > > > esteem,

> > > > > > > dependency, clingy behavior and the idea that

> > > > she

> > > > > > > would die if so and so were to leave her, so

> > > > instead

> > > > > > > she leaves THEM or pushes them to leave her so

> > > > she

> > > > > > > won't actually be dumped. (And the anti-female

> > > > thing

> > > > > > > is UNCANNY -- she seems jealous of any halfway

> > > > > > > attractive girl near her age.) And projecting

> > > > her

> > > > > > > own (irresponsible, impulsive, irrational)

> > > > behavior

> > > > > > > onto others. And habitual lying.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The posts from people whose kids are in their

> > > > > > > twenties or even thirties are kind of scary,

> > > > because

> > > > > > > of course I don't know if that is where she is

> > > > > > > headed. Medications have helped a lot, years

> > > > of

> > > > > > > therapy, and me getting her a cat...But I

> > > > really

> > > > > > > think she will be dependent on me and unable

> > > > to earn

> > > > > > > her living forever, which is so depressing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I want to address the adoption issue.(My dtr

> > > > was

> > > > > > > adopted at 3 months) I know a lot of adopted

> > > > kids

> > > > > > > have problem (and I know many of them

> > > > personally).

> > > > > > > Besides the one post ( Fla?) , does

> > > > anyone else

> > > > > > > have an bp adoptee? (I have to add that my

> > > > > > > also-adopted son is NOT BP, though he does

> > > > have some

> > > > > > > " rage issues " ).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I'm glad I finally weighed in with my two

> > > > cents.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > __________________________________________________

> > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Openjoyful,

I think the urine tests are a good idea. It is something you can hold over her

if she really wants something badly. But she has to want something badly

enough...

Sophie

openjoyful wrote:

Sophie,

It's hard to know if we are making the right decision, because there

might not be a " right " one. We also have our daughter at home, are

paying for her meds, etc. and she is also taking one course at

community college (she dropped the rest). We have the leverage that

she wants to go to art school this fall, and has been accepted. In

order to do that, we require that she must complete a drug/alcohol

course, and take urine tests 3x a week. This will continue for the

next three or four months. She wants to go badly, and she knows that

if she doesn't complete the drug course, that would be her decision

and we don't send her to college.

I think as long as we are clear about what the results will be, then

our child can either comply or not comply, and let those

consequences happen. But we have to be consistent, and follow

through. Otherwise, our kids know we can be manipulated and will

rescue them. It is so hard for parents, and my husband and I have

not always been as consistent as we should. We have to choose

consequences carefully because we know that we have to be willing to

let them happen.

Carolyn

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > My name is Sophie and I have been reading your

> > > > > posts

> > > > > > > > for the past few weeks. There are many

> > > > > similarities

> > > > > > > > between your daughters' behavior and that of

> > > > > my

> > > > > > > > nineteen year old. She does not openly rage

> > > > > much,

> > > > > > > > but she has a lot of rage inside her. SHe has

> > > > > done

> > > > > > > > cutting, smokes a lot of pot, has been

> > > > > hospitalized

> > > > > > > > twice, had to go to five high schools before

> > > > > she

> > > > > > > > graduated, has done a " suicide attempt " (??)

> > > > > and

> > > > > > > > lots of histrionic behavior. She has been

> > > > > diagnosed

> > > > > > > > BPD. The main thing is huge lack of self

> > > > > esteem,

> > > > > > > > dependency, clingy behavior and the idea that

> > > > > she

> > > > > > > > would die if so and so were to leave her, so

> > > > > instead

> > > > > > > > she leaves THEM or pushes them to leave her so

> > > > > she

> > > > > > > > won't actually be dumped. (And the anti-female

> > > > > thing

> > > > > > > > is UNCANNY -- she seems jealous of any halfway

> > > > > > > > attractive girl near her age.) And projecting

> > > > > her

> > > > > > > > own (irresponsible, impulsive, irrational)

> > > > > behavior

> > > > > > > > onto others. And habitual lying.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The posts from people whose kids are in their

> > > > > > > > twenties or even thirties are kind of scary,

> > > > > because

> > > > > > > > of course I don't know if that is where she is

> > > > > > > > headed. Medications have helped a lot, years

> > > > > of

> > > > > > > > therapy, and me getting her a cat...But I

> > > > > really

> > > > > > > > think she will be dependent on me and unable

> > > > > to earn

> > > > > > > > her living forever, which is so depressing.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I want to address the adoption issue.(My dtr

> > > > > was

> > > > > > > > adopted at 3 months) I know a lot of adopted

> > > > > kids

> > > > > > > > have problem (and I know many of them

> > > > > personally).

> > > > > > > > Besides the one post ( Fla?) , does

> > > > > anyone else

> > > > > > > > have an bp adoptee? (I have to add that my

> > > > > > > > also-adopted son is NOT BP, though he does

> > > > > have some

> > > > > > > > " rage issues " ).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I'm glad I finally weighed in with my two

> > > > > cents.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > __________________________________________________

> > > > > > > >