Re: venting and anger

[Guest guest]

Jeanne.

I see your point and understand, how will the two boys feel about this do you

think? have they bonded with her? I guess it doesnt matter.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

I have not discussed that with him. My son had said when was

pregnant the he did not even want to see the baby. He did not want to get

close to

her.

My daughter has a major heart defect that she refuses to get corredted. She

had been advised when it college not to ever get pregnant before having the

hole in her heart closed.

So, of course she did not use birth control and got pregnant twice (my

grandsons). Then she got pregnant last year again. I asked her what the h---

she

was thinking. She was now 6 years older and still has the hole in her heart

and there she is pregnant again. I asked her WHY don't you use birth control

and at 31 years old, she looked me square in the eye and said it was MY fault

because I never told her about it!!!!!! She has had sex education in school

since she was in 8th grade!

I know she will be pregnant again if she is not already. I had suggested she

have her tubes tied at the time she dekivered this baby a month ago, but she

didn't want to do that.

The point I am getting to here is I cannot raise a myriad of children. The

boys are at ages where I can still work. I cannot raise an infant. And quite

honestly, I have a history with and . She has not let me even

see the baby since I told the dirtbag off the day I picked them up at the

hospital, when he slammed my car door in my face.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

good for you, take this day to do something just for yourself. You both need

and deserve it!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

I am hoping to take today off from all this mess. I am not going to contact

the detectives and hope that they don't contact me for anything. I am not

going to check with ' daycare director who does keep me posted as to

whether he comes into school or not. It is Easter and I had planned on taking

them on an Easter Egg hunt as we do every year.

But I have to accept what my daughter has said. The boys ARE her children,

not mine and I am going to have to live my life for me and without them in it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

No she won't bring them to me. Remember she told me she would destroy me and

what better way to destroy me than thru my grandsons. She KNOWS how much

they mean to me.

You said I should cry, well that's good because I cannot stop.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Does she even remember that I exist at this point?

Jean

[Guest guest]

I hope that whatever decision you make, it will work out for you, and that

the three grandkids find a great home, whether with you or perhaps a foster

setting.

Re: venting and anger

My daughter doesn't have achance to get a restraining order. My son, who's

an asst dist attny in a neighboring state says he thinks I should file a

petition with the court to have her committed for evaluation. I am thinking

about

that.

He also says that with her current behavior the police will laugh at her.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry, but I laughed in disbelief at your bp dtr's outrageous statement.

Not know about birth control? I know bp's blame their parent's for lots of

things, but this surely must take the cake!

Re: venting and anger

I have not discussed that with him. My son had said when was

pregnant the he did not even want to see the baby. He did not want to get

close to

her.

My daughter has a major heart defect that she refuses to get corredted. She

had been advised when it college not to ever get pregnant before having the

hole in her heart closed.

So, of course she did not use birth control and got pregnant twice (my

grandsons). Then she got pregnant last year again. I asked her what the

h--- she

was thinking. She was now 6 years older and still has the hole in her heart

and there she is pregnant again. I asked her WHY don't you use birth

control

and at 31 years old, she looked me square in the eye and said it was MY

fault

because I never told her about it!!!!!! She has had sex education in school

since she was in 8th grade!

I know she will be pregnant again if she is not already. I had suggested

she

have her tubes tied at the time she dekivered this baby a month ago, but she

didn't want to do that.

The point I am getting to here is I cannot raise a myriad of children. The

boys are at ages where I can still work. I cannot raise an infant. And

quite

honestly, I have a history with and . She has not let me

even

see the baby since I told the dirtbag off the day I picked them up at the

hospital, when he slammed my car door in my face.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean—

How sad. The two boys are certainly perceptive. I guess it doesn’t matter

how young a person is, it is obvious when the parent favors one above the

other.

I really don’t know about her disregard for her health. I’m thinking back

to that time in my life, how I felt about health issues. For me, anything

that drew attention to my horrid lot in life was good—even if the thing

itself was BAD!! So, in that way, I guess you could say the thinking behind

it is is the same sort of thing as the self-mutilation, but I surely

couldn’t say positively one way or another.

I don’t know that bp’s think of death the same way you and I do. If she

considers the possibility of her death because of the hole in her heart, I

believe it would be in the context that if she died, at least someone would

know there REALLY was something wrong with her, and it would be all their

fault! It constantly amazes me that bp’s have no clue that their bizarre

acting out is like a neon sign flashing above their heads “dysfunctional”!

Enjoy your day off!

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[Guest guest]

Kelley

Thank you. I just got off the phone with the attorney I spoke with last

week. She said 's current behavior puts a new light on things. I am

meetin with her tomorrow.

Also, I know I am getting crazy, but that girl who drowned her 2 little boys

in S Carolina a few years back because her boyfriend didn't want them around;

that keeps going thru my mind or what's left of it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I dont know about the illness, perhaps she bleives she is invincible and nothing

bad can happen to her. I feel so bad for the little boys. Its natural to feel

left out with a new baby around but not natural to punish them for it. Perhaps

if you had said you think she should have ten kids in ten years in succesion and

to hell with the heart defect she may have had heart surgery instead.

I would say she just flat out doesnt beleive the doctors, especially after

having three kids with no problems. Seh doesnt think about raising children,

that would be plannying she does what she does on impulse alone. Whatever it is

at whatever moment, whatever is making her feel good at the moment.

All in all is best to try not to even think about these things, you have done

what you can for her. You can do no more.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

They have not really bonded with her. They have been being treated badly

since the baby was born and they already think Mommy loves the baby more than

us.

So, I don't know.

Tell me, the part about her taking no thought for her health in regards to

constant pregnancies, is that part of the saelf destructive behavior. Does

she

want to die during a pregnancy or what???

And I just don't know how she thinks she can afford to raise these children.

She knows he wion't work and she doesn't seem to mind that.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean—

You know, there’s really no way to tell. If she has a history of violent

actions, there’s a good chance she will resort to similar behaviors when

faced with a new complication. Dr. Phil always says past behavior is a

predictor of future behavior.

However, if you bp dtr is anything like mine, she’ll do her very best to

avoid any encounters with the police. My dtr views the police as her enemy

.. . . hey, here’s a thought: maybe she’ll shift her blame to them!!

Seriously though, losing your living situation is extremely stressful—for

all of us! If she truly has no place to go, that might be the wake-up call

for her. But, there is no way to really tell. So much depends on your dtr

and her internal dialogue. I believe, but am not sure, that she should

receive a LOT of notification ahead of time that she will be kicked out. I

knew of a lady with a deadbeat husband who lost her mobile home. She and

her husband had all kinds of time to get out; they actually lived there for

several months after they were told they were going to have to get out.

Eventually, of course, the non-payments caught up with them, and will, too,

with your dtr. If she’s smart, and knows it is coming, she’ll be on the

look-out. Oh, she may never tell you she’s checking around. If she tells

you, you won’t feel as sorry for her (in her mind).

Ultimately, of course, whatever happens is due to her failing to deal with

her own problems. You can’t change whether she will or won’t blame you.

Perhaps you can adopt a rather cavalier attitude: se la vie? (whatever

will be will be) It can do wonders for your peace of mind.

Re: venting and anger

What do you think will happen when she actaully loses the house and her new

car? When she actually sees the sheriff come and lock the doors to her

house

and the repo truck comes and picks up thje car? I know she will be blaming

me,

but how violent do you think it will get?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean

She doesnt know why she does things either! If she doesnt know then we can

never know!

Shoo now! this is your day off! Close your email and forget it for the day!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

I was going to write and ask why she would do such a thing, but I guess I

have to really accept that the only thing I am ever going to know is true

about

her is that she is irrational.

And I will never be able to understand anything she does, not ever!

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean—

I don’t know about the abandonment thing. I do know that when I was

homeless (for about three months following my release from my psych

commitment) that I didn’t feel abandoned. I WAS really angry that no one

would help me. I went to a church that, instead of helping, were telling me

they would “pray” for me.

It was really frustrating because I had contributed financially to that

church; I didn’t need someone to pray for me, I needed a place to stay!!

However, during those months, I went from friend to friend, house to house,

shelter to shelter; a couple nights in the car. But, even at that, I didn’t

BLAME anyone. It simply was what it was. Remember, a bp lives in today,

and reacts to things that happen “today” (unless it becomes advantageous to

their manipulating ways to remember “yesterday”).

But, if you want to understand how your dtr thinks, I’d really recommend you

begin buying some of the excellent books on bps (and excellent ones for

family members as well) and reading up. Knowledge is definitely power.

--

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[Guest guest]

Possibly, or possibly when it really is a factor she will pull herself together

enough to get a job and do everything in her power to stop it from happening.

At that point she may split dirtbag black because she will know he wont help and

never has. There is no clear cut answer. she may feel overwhelmed and check

herself into a hospital.......

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

I think I know what she will do if she is indeed bp. I think this would be a

form of abandonment, so she will move before the house is foreclosed on.

That way it is she making the decision to " abandon " the house. She won't be

losing it.

Am I on the right track with how " they " think???

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jean—

How interesting! I, too, declared bankruptcy as a result of my

hospitalization back in the 1980s, and I too, cleaned up my financial

record.

Although bp’s deal in the here and now, every now and then there are

glimmers of light in the night! Even though your bp dtr’s actions may be

truly incomprehensible for the most part, she still grew up learning what

you had to teach her about values, how to handle money, etc. Sometimes, to

our amazement, those things shine forth!

Bp-ism is very impulsive, which has a lot to do with “here and now”

statement I made. But, most bp’s a pretty darn smart, too. If your dtr

wanted her credit cleared so that she could get things, it only makes sense

that she takes the same energy that she uses to plot and scheme with (to get

what she wants emotionally) and turn it towards getting what she wants in

the way of material things.

I truly believe that because of the extreme pain a bp is in most of the

time, they only have so much energy to deal with their issues. I look at

myself, even now, as recovered, and know that I only have a finite amount of

energy to deal with the issues in our lives. I think that’s true with all

of us. But, how much energy we have in reserve depends on how much we have

to expend in order to survive, day to day.

It is possible that once your dtr got the house, she turned those energies

to something else . . . maybe the dirtbag? Whatever is HER priority is

where she’s going to spend her energy. Once she gets foreclosed on, she’ll

yank her energy back to her living situation.

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[Guest guest]

She was doing for you during that time.....now she is doing for him. It was

important then but now it is not as you are not a part of her life. You know

that saying you are what you eat? Well BPD is like you are who you are with.

She does not have an identity of her own so she changes identities according to

who she is with at the moment. It is pure chaos. now thinking of when she was

good, she was mirroring you! So there you know that you are a good person. She

is mirroroing him now , it is not an easy thing to comprehend. you and I have

an identity firmly entrenched in our being. When someone behaves badly toward

us we simply say stop I wont allow that. It does not work that way with BPD.

But you do see what she is capable of either way!

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

If she only lives in the moment, thenwhy did she spend 4 years cleaning up

her credit? She declared bankruptcy in 1998 after the boys' father ran up all

her credit cards and totaled her the brand new car which did end up getting

repossesed. But, by the time that dirt bag was finished with it, it was no

great

loss. So, I put her in touch with an attorney who handles those things and

she declared bankruptcy, but she was able to get a mortgage 4 years later as

soon as everything on her credit report was the way the mortgage originator

told

her to get it. She spent 3 years with all 3 credit reporting agencies,

writing letters and more letters until everything was perfect. She had the

tenacity to do this to get the house and now look at her. Why?????

Jean

[Guest guest]

I just got back from the bookstore. I bought " I Hate You Don't Leave Me "

and I went to lunch and read some of it. I read something in the middle of the

book that said, that the current relationship they're in when it gets too

close, they will sabotage because they're uncomfortable with intimacy. That

would

make me think she might dump dirtbag, but then another section talked about

how they will go back and forth with those guys who abuse them. So, which is

it?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Why didnt the detective follow her?

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

The detective just called me. She only stayed at her house 15 min yesterday

and then left. She never had the kids wiith her. The dirt bag's brother

called the police and told them she pickled up the kids and he no longer had

them.

They were going on HIS word. I told them, the kids are probably still

there!!!!!!! She had the brother say that to throw the detectives off the

track.

How stupid are they " Jeesh!\

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

That link comes up as " Page you're looking for isn't here " .

Jean

[Guest guest]

Kelley

I found it.

Jean

[Guest guest]

I can't believe the police believed that piece of scum! How outrageous! My

question is the same as Kelley's--why didn't the detective follow her?

Re: venting and anger

The detective just called me. She only stayed at her house 15 min yesterday

and then left. She never had the kids wiith her. The dirt bag's brother

called the police and told them she pickled up the kids and he no longer had

them.

They were going on HIS word. I told them, the kids are probably still

there!!!!!!! She had the brother say that to throw the detectives off the

track.

How stupid are they " Jeesh!\

Jean

[Guest guest]

I was just reading an article on power and power plays. It wasn't in

relation to bps specifically. My question is do bps get a rush from power over

others? Is having power over someone something they strive for?

Jean

[Guest guest]

No i dont think she would get rid of her kids because he said so. She put them

out of his way by confining them to thier room. She will fight like the devil

to keep those kids, I am sure of it. Well I cant be sure but thats my opinion.

nathan is a survivor all ready, remember he gladly told teacher and day care

about problems at home, he will continue to take the opportunity to do so if and

when he needs to.

find that therpist for you! you need to be far from breakdown when the

grandkids come to live with you! Therapy now will look good for court as well!

i dont think she will throw the kids out, but if she did i think she has the

sense to bring them to you.

Hugs

Kelley

Re: venting and anger

Kelley

What you said makes me about as depressed as I can possibly get. If he tells

her to " get rid " of the boys, will she do that too? So what does she care

about now? Nothing but harboring him?

I went to the mall, kept my hairdresser's appt, and showed 3 houses. That is

about all I can handle today. I think I am going to have a breakdown soon.

What is going to happen to my poor grandsons?

Jean

[Guest guest]

Ahhhhhhh to bad they dont actually follow her.

Re: venting and anger

The detective was in court yesterday. And the one who is covering the area

where the dirtbag lives was down there and it's a 1/2 hr away from here. The

neighbor across the street(who they have watching her house) called to tell

them

she was only there 15 minutes.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Jeanne

mentioned Alanon online, i ws doing nothing but trying to not clean house

so I looked it up... here are a few links.

http://groups.msn.com/Alanon

http://www.12stepforums.net/alanon.html

also a link to CODA

http://www.codependents.org/

http://www.12step.org/bb_coda/index.php

also some links for some tremendous reading material on BPD

http://www.bpdcentral.com/index.shtml

http://www.bpdresources.com/top40.html

and some on anger

http://psychologicalselfhelp.org/chap7/chap7m.htm

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/anger.htm

That should keep you busy and learning to cope and keep from having a break

down!

Hugs

Kelley

[Guest guest]

Jean

If it comes down to losing them or giving them to you, she will give them to

you. Right now she is destroying you but if the state were to try and take away

her kids she would be offering them up to you on a silver platter!

Go ahead and cry it is good to get it out.

Hugs

kelley

Re: venting and anger

No she won't bring them to me. Remember she told me she would destroy me and

what better way to destroy me than thru my grandsons. She KNOWS how much

they mean to me.

You said I should cry, well that's good because I cannot stop.

Jean