Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Thanks Kelley I have already been grieving and yes I have been in denial for years. The whole 3 1/2 yr period that seemed normal, she obviously wasn't and I should have faced it head on then and encouraged her to get counseling or else----or else I wouldn't help her financially, or babysit the boys, or whatever it took to at least get her to be evaluated. I made her life too easy, I enabled her to continue this craziness. And now I have to live with its affects on my darling, wonderful little grandsons. I will enable no more. ANd I do so appreciate all you guys say in your posts. Had I not had this group throughout this nightmare, I honestly do not know what I would have done. EAch and everyone of you has been a tremendous support and comfort to me. And , I know you have always had my best interest at heart with what you have written. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Kelley What do you mean I have lots of drama to get through??? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 If you are angry and need to vent, you can address your emails to me - either here at this site, or personally. You can say whatever you want and be as angry as you want. You can be catty, mean and hateful! It will NOT offend me, I promise! You can hate your daughter and I won't judge you, as I've not walked in your shoes. And you can say that you do not believe your daughter does not love her kids. I believe it is possible that she doesn't. You need support and understanding right now above all else. I would like to offer that to you and allow you to say anything to me that you feel you need to say. You can disagree with me. Just talk and let your feelings out. I want you to know that I am here and will listen. I care! The best thing my therapist did for me, was to let me say ANYTHING that I wanted to without judging me or trying to tell me I was wrong. I hated my daughter and what she had become, and my heart was completely broken. After I was able to work through and let go of some of what I was feeling, then she was able to help me. Until you can find a therapist, I will be happy to listen... La Nell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 WE all will.... Re: Re: venting and anger If you are angry and need to vent, you can address your emails to me - either here at this site, or personally. You can say whatever you want and be as angry as you want. You can be catty, mean and hateful! It will NOT offend me, I promise! You can hate your daughter and I won't judge you, as I've not walked in your shoes. And you can say that you do not believe your daughter does not love her kids. I believe it is possible that she doesn't. You need support and understanding right now above all else. I would like to offer that to you and allow you to say anything to me that you feel you need to say. You can disagree with me. Just talk and let your feelings out. I want you to know that I am here and will listen. I care! The best thing my therapist did for me, was to let me say ANYTHING that I wanted to without judging me or trying to tell me I was wrong. I hated my daughter and what she had become,! and my heart was completely broken. After I was able to work through and let go of some of what I was feeling, then she was able to help me. Until you can find a therapist, I will be happy to listen... La Nell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 " WE all will.... " Some, perhaps many will, but I've read at least one that won't. now is not the time for you to have to be thoughtful of the bpd or be tagged for something you say that is taken personally or deemed inappropriate. It made me sad to see you apologizing when you are operating in such a crisis. Often people don't say or do what is " right " when they are operating in a crisis, and they do lash out at others who are not to blame. I want you to know, you will not have to apologize to me... La Nell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Friends-- I'm getting a little ticked at these emails that are coming across, not saying my name, but obviously pointed at me. I sit in judgment of no one. But, I'm also not stupid. Anger and bitterness DOES destroy a person, and I would not be a friend or supportive if I did not say so, and urge anyone experiencing those emotions to seek counsel. To say I am not supportive and that I'm non-understanding is a total misrepresentation of both me and my posts. To be frank, as you obviously felt the freedom to be frank, La Nell, if you've got something to say about me, then be a big enough person to talk to me. Talk about walking in someone's shoes--you have no concept of where my feet have been. Am I ticked? You better believe it. I have no problem with ANYONE saying they hate their kid. I've been there, too! What makes you think I haven't? Just because I don't fall all over myself gushing about how terrible the other person's lot is doesn't mean I don't think they're experiencing bad times. We all experience bad times. But, there are things we need to open our eyes to, things that will help us get through those hard times. If I fail to share what has helped me, how am I being a friend? Your implication that I don't care about and her problems infuriates me. Of course I care!! If I didn't care, I wouldn't share things that have helped me personally, in both my battle with bp and dealing with my dtr. Sure, we can wallow in self-pity, refuse to deal with anger and bitterness, but what help is that? It doesn't mean we don't feel those things. But part of being supportive is pointing the way when we're so close to the things that are hurting us that we can't see the way. That's what a true friend does. If you are angry and need to vent, you can address your emails to me - either here at this site, or personally. You can say whatever you want and be as angry as you want. You can be catty, mean and hateful! It will NOT offend me, I promise! You can hate your daughter and I won't judge you, as I've not walked in your shoes. And you can say that you do not believe your daughter does not love her kids. I believe it is possible that she doesn't. You need support and understanding right now above all else. I would like to offer that to you and allow you to say anything to me that you feel you need to say. You can disagree with me. Just talk and let your feelings out. I want you to know that I am here and will listen. I care! The best thing my therapist did for me, was to let me say ANYTHING that I wanted to without judging me or trying to tell me I was wrong. I hated my daughter and what she had become,! and my heart was completely broken. After I was able to work through and let go of some of what I was feeling, then she was able to help me. Until you can find a therapist, I will be happy to listen... La Nell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Are we all not here to support each other? It is not logical to allow some to be angry and to expect others to have no feelings. The difference in the ones we seek support to be around and live with thier mental illnesses and us is that we can vocalize when we are hurt and then we can apologize if we hurt others and we truly mean it. As NON parents we have learned our boundaries. It is a healthy boundary to say hey dont be angry at me, and just as healthy to stop and say hey yes I guess I am a little out of line forgive me. I have a tremendous right to be angry right now that i have termites, but not to take it out on you, or or , or Carolyn or anyone else. We all have valid reasons for fealing anger but it is how we handle the anger that is the key. I think I and others like are woried to death over Jean's anger and it causing her more harm. It matters not who said what but encouraging someone to blast away is not the same as venting, nor is it healthy, nor will it help. It serves only to escalate anger. Misplaced anger can eat you alive. I think everyone is emotionally invovled with Jeans horrors right now. We will all help differently, or see things differently but I dont think anyone here has not supported her, namely . I hope this nighmare ends for you soon somehow. You have been through denial, you are angry now, and soon you may go through the moruning phase as well. It is all a process of grief and I think everyone here shares with you in your grief. Hugs to all Kelley Re: Re: venting and anger " WE all will.... " Some, perhaps many will, but I've read at least one that won't. now is not the time for you to have to be thoughtful of the bpd or be tagged for something you say that is taken personally or deemed inappropriate. It made me sad to see you apologizing when you are operating in such a crisis. Often people don't say or do what is " right " when they are operating in a crisis, and they do lash out at others who are not to blame. I want you to know, you will not have to apologize to me... La Nell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Friends-- We all do what we can, support where we can. None of us have been through the exact same thing, which is great, because it means we all have something different to contribute to each other. Hopefully, that helps to add a truly balanced and rounded picture to those going through rough times. Let's celebrate the differences and unique views that we can each add to support our friends here on the forum! Re: venting and anger Thanks Kelley I have already been grieving and yes I have been in denial for years. The whole 3 1/2 yr period that seemed normal, she obviously wasn't and I should have faced it head on then and encouraged her to get counseling or else----or else I wouldn't help her financially, or babysit the boys, or whatever it took to at least get her to be evaluated. I made her life too easy, I enabled her to continue this craziness. And now I have to live with its affects on my darling, wonderful little grandsons. I will enable no more. ANd I do so appreciate all you guys say in your posts. Had I not had this group throughout this nightmare, I honestly do not know what I would have done. EAch and everyone of you has been a tremendous support and comfort to me. And , I know you have always had my best interest at heart with what you have written. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 , " To be frank, as you obviously felt the freedom to be frank, La Nell, if you've got something to say about me, then be a big enough person to talk to me. " I don't...if I did, I would address you. " Talk about walking in someone's shoes--you have no concept of where my feet have been. " Your are right, I don't know NOR you, I. So what is your point? I've never referred to " where you have been " . It is not of interest to me. " I have no problem with ANYONE saying they hate their kid. I've been there, too! What makes you think I haven't? " This was not about you...but rather my daughter...and my feelings. " Am I ticked? " As you told someone in a post the other day, " chill " . " We all experience bad times. " Some times are worse than others, and some of us are not as strong as others. What is manageable to some, is seen as a crisis by others. " But, there are things we need to open our eyes to, things that will help us get through those hard times. " True, but often when someone is in the midst of anger and emotion as Jean's demonstrated, they are not in a frame of mind to " open their eyes " to anything but the awful pain they feel. " Your implication that I don't care about and her problems infuriates me. " I thought two of your e-mails to her today showed little understanding. In fact, I wonder if it is the anger you have at your daughter that is coming out in your responses today - which is what you accused of... " Sure, we can wallow in self-pity, refuse to deal with anger and bitterness, but what help is that? " I saw EMS and the police haul my daughter out of a hotel room screaming, kicking and fighting, and saw the police beat her to a pulp to restrain her (4 men - my daughter weighs 130 lbs.) and she was yelling and sobbing " Please Mom, please Mom, please don't let them kill me " . She was psychotic and did not believe it was the EMS or the police but rather drug dealers disguised - I wallowed in self-pity, anger and bitterness because that's all there was left of my soul. It wasn't any help at all...it's all that was left of me. To be completely honest, , I have gained a great deal from some of your posts. And I the fact that you have recovered gives me some of the only hope I have for my daughter to recover. On the other hand, I disagree with you often. I don't comment, I just ignore it. Today, I felt really bad for and was glad it was not me that you had written those responses too, because it could of propelled me to an even worse emotional state. I really thought this was a place where people could dialogue, but it seems more that it for those who know what the right thing is to do, and then discuss how they did the right thing. I apologize for even logging on to this site. I'll find comfort and understanding elsewhere. Thanks, . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Jean You have a lot to get through, and grieve over. Dont forget tears are cleansing, someone posted somewhere there was a study done. People who cry from hurt and pain actually shed toxins in thier tears....so when you get there go ahead and boo hoo till you are dry! You problaby still have lots of drama to come to, but I think you will come out of it better than ever! Hugs Kelley Re: venting and anger Thanks Kelley I have already been grieving and yes I have been in denial for years. The whole 3 1/2 yr period that seemed normal, she obviously wasn't and I should have faced it head on then and encouraged her to get counseling or else----or else I wouldn't help her financially, or babysit the boys, or whatever it took to at least get her to be evaluated. I made her life too easy, I enabled her to continue this craziness. And now I have to live with its affects on my darling, wonderful little grandsons. I will enable no more. ANd I do so appreciate all you guys say in your posts. Had I not had this group throughout this nightmare, I honestly do not know what I would have done. EAch and everyone of you has been a tremendous support and comfort to me. And , I know you have always had my best interest at heart with what you have written. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 23, 2005 Report Share Posted March 23, 2005 Here Here and Cheers to all of us! Hugs Kelley Re: venting and anger > > > Thanks Kelley > > I have already been grieving and yes I have been in denial for years. The > whole 3 1/2 yr period that seemed normal, she obviously wasn't and I > > should have faced it head on then and encouraged her to get counseling or > else----or else I wouldn't help her financially, or babysit the boys, or > whatever it > took to at least get her to be evaluated. I made her life too easy, I > enabled > her to continue this craziness. And now I have to live with its affects on > my darling, wonderful little grandsons. > > I will enable no more. ANd I do so appreciate all you guys say in your > posts. Had I not had this group throughout this nightmare, I honestly do > not know > what I would have done. EAch and everyone of you has been a tremendous > support and comfort to me. And , I know you have always had my best > interest > at heart with what you have written. > > Jean > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > People joining this list must read the guidelines and agree to them before > posting. Send questions or concerns to WelcomeToOz-owner . > " Stop Walking on Eggshells " , a primer for non-BPs, and " Hope for Parents: > Helping Your Borderline Son or Daughter Without Sacrificing Your Family Or > Yourself " can be ordered via 1-888-35-SHELL (). For table of > contents, go to http://www.BPDCentral.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Jean If you go to court, if your daughter loses her hubby for good, there is still more to come from her.......I call it drama, another good word is chaos. Your daughter has obviously set up working on a good distortion campaign against you with the school and the daycare. Seh may continue on with a restraining order. I would consider what you are going through with your daughter to be more closely resemblinga divorse with a BPD involved. Hugs kelley Re: venting and anger Kelley What do you mean I have lots of drama to get through??? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 When our bp dtr was 15, she ran away from home. Long story. We took her immediately to counseling. On the way home from the first appointment, she had the nerve to ask us how she could get herself legally emancipated from us! We told her she'd have to talk to an attorney about that. Then (and I couldn't believe this, either), she asked US to make an appt. for HER with an attorney!!! I think on one hand, she was hoping we would, so she could prattle on about how we didn't want her and throw it in our faces later. But, still, underneath, there was that seeking behavior. It was the old " if-you-love-me-you'll-do-this-for-me " trick right alongside the " if-you-love-me-you-WON'T-do-this-TO-me " !!! So, I think Kelley has a point. Your bp dtr may indeed try to seek a restraining order against you. In our state, there have to be three provable (in court) instances of threats of bodily harm by the person against whom the restraining order is sought. If you've been keeping good records, and if your dtr does try and do that to you, you can drag out your own proof as to who did what. Obviously, we hope it never comes to that. We found (for us) in dealing with the police that our bp dtr would tell them all sorts of lies--lies to make her look good and picked on, and lies to make us look evil and conspiring. When they came to our house, we simply showed them the contract we had her sign, and talked about her bizarre behaviors. They left shaking their heads. But, conversely, I have found many people who are taken in by her lies and manipulations--and I rank right up there at the top (or at least I did for a long time)! Even after warning the therapist we went to see that our bp dtr was lying and manipulative, and that she would snow the therapist, it happened anyway. And that's a so-called " trained " mental health professional! Jean If you go to court, if your daughter loses her hubby for good, there is still more to come from her.......I call it drama, another good word is chaos. Your daughter has obviously set up working on a good distortion campaign against you with the school and the daycare. Seh may continue on with a restraining order. I would consider what you are going through with your daughter to be more closely resemblinga divorse with a BPD involved. Hugs kelley Re: venting and anger Kelley What do you mean I have lots of drama to get through??? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 My daughter doesn't have achance to get a restraining order. My son, who's an asst dist attny in a neighboring state says he thinks I should file a petition with the court to have her committed for evaluation. I am thinking about that. He also says that with her current behavior the police will laugh at her. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I have not discussed that with him. My son had said when was pregnant the he did not even want to see the baby. He did not want to get close to her. My daughter has a major heart defect that she refuses to get corredted. She had been advised when it college not to ever get pregnant before having the hole in her heart closed. So, of course she did not use birth control and got pregnant twice (my grandsons). Then she got pregnant last year again. I asked her what the h--- she was thinking. She was now 6 years older and still has the hole in her heart and there she is pregnant again. I asked her WHY don't you use birth control and at 31 years old, she looked me square in the eye and said it was MY fault because I never told her about it!!!!!! She has had sex education in school since she was in 8th grade! I know she will be pregnant again if she is not already. I had suggested she have her tubes tied at the time she dekivered this baby a month ago, but she didn't want to do that. The point I am getting to here is I cannot raise a myriad of children. The boys are at ages where I can still work. I cannot raise an infant. And quite honestly, I have a history with and . She has not let me even see the baby since I told the dirtbag off the day I picked them up at the hospital, when he slammed my car door in my face. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I am hoping to take today off from all this mess. I am not going to contact the detectives and hope that they don't contact me for anything. I am not going to check with ' daycare director who does keep me posted as to whether he comes into school or not. It is Easter and I had planned on taking them on an Easter Egg hunt as we do every year. But I have to accept what my daughter has said. The boys ARE her children, not mine and I am going to have to live my life for me and without them in it. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 They have not really bonded with her. They have been being treated badly since the baby was born and they already think Mommy loves the baby more than us. So, I don't know. Tell me, the part about her taking no thought for her health in regards to constant pregnancies, is that part of the saelf destructive behavior. Does she want to die during a pregnancy or what??? And I just don't know how she thinks she can afford to raise these children. She knows he wion't work and she doesn't seem to mind that. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I was going to write and ask why she would do such a thing, but I guess I have to really accept that the only thing I am ever going to know is true about her is that she is irrational. And I will never be able to understand anything she does, not ever! Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 What do you think will happen when she actaully loses the house and her new car? When she actually sees the sheriff come and lock the doors to her house and the repo truck comes and picks up thje car? I know she will be blaming me, but how violent do you think it will get? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 I think I know what she will do if she is indeed bp. I think this would be a form of abandonment, so she will move before the house is foreclosed on. That way it is she making the decision to " abandon " the house. She won't be losing it. Am I on the right track with how " they " think??? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 If she only lives in the moment, thenwhy did she spend 4 years cleaning up her credit? She declared bankruptcy in 1998 after the boys' father ran up all her credit cards and totaled her the brand new car which did end up getting repossesed. But, by the time that dirt bag was finished with it, it was no great loss. So, I put her in touch with an attorney who handles those things and she declared bankruptcy, but she was able to get a mortgage 4 years later as soon as everything on her credit report was the way the mortgage originator told her to get it. She spent 3 years with all 3 credit reporting agencies, writing letters and more letters until everything was perfect. She had the tenacity to do this to get the house and now look at her. Why????? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 The detective just called me. She only stayed at her house 15 min yesterday and then left. She never had the kids wiith her. The dirt bag's brother called the police and told them she pickled up the kids and he no longer had them. They were going on HIS word. I told them, the kids are probably still there!!!!!!! She had the brother say that to throw the detectives off the track. How stupid are they " Jeesh!\ Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Your son is right. You should file that petition along with a petition for temporary custody of the children. What does your son think about filing for custody of just two children and not the baby? Hugs Kelley Re: venting and anger My daughter doesn't have achance to get a restraining order. My son, who's an asst dist attny in a neighboring state says he thinks I should file a petition with the court to have her committed for evaluation. I am thinking about that. He also says that with her current behavior the police will laugh at her. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 Kelley What you said makes me about as depressed as I can possibly get. If he tells her to " get rid " of the boys, will she do that too? So what does she care about now? Nothing but harboring him? I went to the mall, kept my hairdresser's appt, and showed 3 houses. That is about all I can handle today. I think I am going to have a breakdown soon. What is going to happen to my poor grandsons? Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 24, 2005 Report Share Posted March 24, 2005 The detective was in court yesterday. And the one who is covering the area where the dirtbag lives was down there and it's a 1/2 hr away from here. The neighbor across the street(who they have watching her house) called to tell them she was only there 15 minutes. Jean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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