Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 If you felt better on armour for a while and then felt worse, that usually means that you need to increase the dose. Yes, you also need adrenal support. Most people here take either cortef or isocort. Lynda (in the UK) Adrenal Info Anyone? Hi All, I've been treating my thyroid, with help from physicians, for about 3-4 years. I believe I've been hypo for at least 8 years if not more -- like about 15 -- according to symptoms that I can relate back that far. Was taking Synthroid only until June, 2003, and then started Cytomel in addition to Synthroid. Two weeks ago I started Armour. Saw very little improvement on Synthroid alone. Adding Cytomel helped a lot but the Armour has made a huge difference in my brain symptoms. Am currently on 1.5 grains and am not due for my retest labs for another 2 weeks. Body symptoms have improved some but not as much as I feel they should after 9+ months and the improvements seem so short-lived. The endo I'm seeing now had me do a 24-hour urine for cortisol based on my continued various symptoms. It came back at 29 (3.5-45). I talked with his nurse yesterday about worsening symptoms and he's sending me an order for an 8AM Cortisol. I just KNOW I have adrenal issues. Was actually smiling and laughing, felt hopeful, was sleeping better, more confidence, mind clearer, wanting to be more social, sinuses/ears were clearer than they had been for many, many months, etc, etc, etc, after about 5 days on the Armour. But over the last 5 days, I've slipped back more and more each day. Symptoms list is LONG and seems to include almost every part of my body. Over the last 2-3 months, I've noticed I'm become very sensitive to monthly hormonal changes. Especially at ovulation time and then again just before my period. Have rarely had this before, except weight gain the week before my period. Last month the PMS was horrible. Yesterday, at mid-cycle, I had another " mini-meltdown. " Last night sleep was terrible and this morning, I'm tired, feeling down and wondering if it'll ever get any better. Am working only very part-time, maybe one or two days a week, due to practically zero energy on a consistent basis. After starting Armour, my energy was such that I actually felt I could do something constructive. It's just so short lived! After only 2 very non-stressful days of work last week, I was so tired. And then I started " falling, " as indicated above. Any little bit of " stress " seems to tear me back down. I will do the 8AM cortisol test when I receive the order in the mail. (My endo is 3 hours away and is working with me via mail/phone after our initial visit 2 weeks ago.) But after that, I want to start taking something for adrenal support. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should take, how to ease into it, where to get it and approx. costs? I just started a multivitamin a couple of days ago. Have not been consistent with them due to indigestion after taking them, but I know I need them and will put up with it to get better. I take it with food even. Any tips on how the indigestion can be alleviated with regard to the M-Vit? Feel free to ask any questions. Advice would be appreciated! Janet Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Janet, I feel for you and I am in a similar boat. I feel ike I have been hypo for years. It wasn't until after the birth of my two babies (especailly the second) that things got really out of control (hairloss was a new symptom and that really triggered me to go and talk to the doctor at my yearly pap testing). That's when the results revealed a TSh of 6.63. Anyway, I can't be sure that I actually had hypo problems years previous or adrenal fatigue (I have always been a high strung individual with losts of stress - mainly emotional since I was a small kiddo). Anyway, I got put on synthroid 75mcg which was obviously way too much for me. I thought I was literally dying. I was recently put on levoxyl 50 mcg (new doc and I guess he gets perks for prescribing his choice of meds), and I felt better within 2 days. My temps were up and I actually felt better for once in a long time (not perfect, but better). My biggest complaint is the HORRIBLE insomnia. ANyway, I am starting to feel like I am slipping backwards again, however. I really do know how you feel and I just started my period 3 days ago and I felt a crash too (just like previous months). I am trying to take the advice of some of the gals here. They seems to know what to do and how to get better. I have some adrenal support coming any day now. I pray that this will be the ticket. I have searched for a doctor who will prescribe armour and to no avail. I may have to do that on my own by ordering it off the internet and having the gals here help me with that. It's such an emotional roller coaster, isn't it?? Please know that you are not the only one going through this crud. I hope you get better and soon . > Hi All, > > I've been treating my thyroid, with help from physicians, for about 3-4 years. I > believe I've been hypo for at least 8 years if not more -- like about 15 -- according to > symptoms that I can relate back that far. Was taking Synthroid only until June, 2003, > and then started Cytomel in addition to Synthroid. Two weeks ago I started Armour. > Saw very little improvement on Synthroid alone. Adding Cytomel helped a lot but the > Armour has made a huge difference in my brain symptoms. Am currently on 1.5 > grains and am not due for my retest labs for another 2 weeks. Body symptoms have > improved some but not as much as I feel they should after 9+ months and the > improvements seem so short-lived. > > The endo I'm seeing now had me do a 24-hour urine for cortisol based on my > continued various symptoms. It came back at 29 (3.5-45). I talked with his nurse > yesterday about worsening symptoms and he's sending me an order for an 8AM > Cortisol. > > I just KNOW I have adrenal issues. Was actually smiling and laughing, felt hopeful, > was sleeping better, more confidence, mind clearer, wanting to be more social, > sinuses/ears were clearer than they had been for many, many months, etc, etc, etc, > after about 5 days on the Armour. But over the last 5 days, I've slipped back more > and more each day. Symptoms list is LONG and seems to include almost every part of > my body. > > Over the last 2-3 months, I've noticed I'm become very sensitive to monthly hormonal > changes. Especially at ovulation time and then again just before my period. Have > rarely had this before, except weight gain the week before my period. Last month the > PMS was horrible. Yesterday, at mid-cycle, I had another " mini-meltdown. " Last > night sleep was terrible and this morning, I'm tired, feeling down and wondering if it'll > ever get any better. Am working only very part-time, maybe one or two days a week, > due to practically zero energy on a consistent basis. After starting Armour, my > energy was such that I actually felt I could do something constructive. It's just so > short lived! After only 2 very non-stressful days of work last week, I was so tired. > And then I started " falling, " as indicated above. Any little bit of " stress " seems to tear > me back down. > > I will do the 8AM cortisol test when I receive the order in the mail. (My endo is 3 > hours away and is working with me via mail/phone after our initial visit 2 weeks ago.) > But after that, I want to start taking something for adrenal support. Anyone have any > suggestions as to what I should take, how to ease into it, where to get it and approx. > costs? I just started a multivitamin a couple of days ago. Have not been consistent > with them due to indigestion after taking them, but I know I need them and will put > up with it to get better. I take it with food even. Any tips on how the indigestion can > be alleviated with regard to the M-Vit? > > Feel free to ask any questions. Advice would be appreciated! > > Janet Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Wow. This sounds familiar. Yes, its likely your adrenals talking to you. I went through this. Miserable, isn't it? It took about 3 weeks to get my life back once I figured it all out (with a WHOLE lot of help from other hypos on these boards). #1 Check your vitamins for any presence of Iodine or Calcium. If its there, thats OK. Just don't take your vitamins within 4 hours of taking any throid meds. (I take vitamins at night instead of in the AM.)Most specifically, do not take calcium at the same time that you take any thyroid preparation; calcium binds to (renders useless) a portion of thryoid preparation and exits the body as waste. I made this mistake for a long time & recognize the implications of it today. My doc never told me this; I discoverd it reading mountains of research on the vaious thyroid medications. #2 Your adrenal tests very well may show 'normal'. These tests are designed for extremes of adrenal disorder, not for weakness, which is what most of us have. Should your doc view the tests and pooh-pooh medication (You don't want to be on it unless you HAVE to be; its a steroid.), you can help yourself tremendously with the use of both raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; the difference is remarkable and noteworthy. Nobody ever looked at my adrenals; I did via ZRT labs saliva tests for $65.00. What I saw was cortisol levels that were depressed and did not go down in the latter part of the day. (You may want to call back your doc and ask for an AM AND PM cortisol, since just an AM won't show anything. My doc made this same boo-boo. It cost me months of feeling like crap.) I figured this one out when it appeared that I only got a few days relief by thyroid medication increases and then it all went to hell again. People that are hyper- sensitive to thyroid medication changes generally have tired adrenals in most cases. I had this disease for about 6 years before I finally got diagnosed. It took 4 doctors telling me that nothing was wrong with me for me to seak out and find a recommended psychiatrist. I reallt thought that I must be crazy. The Psychiatrist ran a bunch of labs and said you have thryoid problems, not depression or metal disorders. S**t, I thought I was nuts and I absolutely blame the medical community for not only failing to treat me, but failing to hear what I was saying all along. My point in telling you this is not to undermine your faith in the medical community, but rather to incite your faith in yourself. If you think that its your adrenals that are weak, newsflash, it probably is. Just don't fall into thinking that an AM cortisol reading will tell you a whole lot. It very well could, but it may not and you should be prepared for that. The gold standard for adrenals is an ACTH challenge test, not a single ACTH reading nor a single cortisol reading. R. > Hi All, > > I've been treating my thyroid, with help from physicians, for about 3-4 years. I > believe I've been hypo for at least 8 years if not more -- like about 15 -- according to > symptoms that I can relate back that far. Was taking Synthroid only until June, 2003, > and then started Cytomel in addition to Synthroid. Two weeks ago I started Armour. > Saw very little improvement on Synthroid alone. Adding Cytomel helped a lot but the > Armour has made a huge difference in my brain symptoms. Am currently on 1.5 > grains and am not due for my retest labs for another 2 weeks. Body symptoms have > improved some but not as much as I feel they should after 9+ months and the > improvements seem so short-lived. > > The endo I'm seeing now had me do a 24-hour urine for cortisol based on my > continued various symptoms. It came back at 29 (3.5-45). I talked with his nurse > yesterday about worsening symptoms and he's sending me an order for an 8AM > Cortisol. > > I just KNOW I have adrenal issues. Was actually smiling and laughing, felt hopeful, > was sleeping better, more confidence, mind clearer, wanting to be more social, > sinuses/ears were clearer than they had been for many, many months, etc, etc, etc, > after about 5 days on the Armour. But over the last 5 days, I've slipped back more > and more each day. Symptoms list is LONG and seems to include almost every part of > my body. > > Over the last 2-3 months, I've noticed I'm become very sensitive to monthly hormonal > changes. Especially at ovulation time and then again just before my period. Have > rarely had this before, except weight gain the week before my period. Last month the > PMS was horrible. Yesterday, at mid-cycle, I had another " mini- meltdown. " Last > night sleep was terrible and this morning, I'm tired, feeling down and wondering if it'll > ever get any better. Am working only very part-time, maybe one or two days a week, > due to practically zero energy on a consistent basis. After starting Armour, my > energy was such that I actually felt I could do something constructive. It's just so > short lived! After only 2 very non-stressful days of work last week, I was so tired. > And then I started " falling, " as indicated above. Any little bit of " stress " seems to tear > me back down. > > I will do the 8AM cortisol test when I receive the order in the mail. (My endo is 3 > hours away and is working with me via mail/phone after our initial visit 2 weeks ago.) > But after that, I want to start taking something for adrenal support. Anyone have any > suggestions as to what I should take, how to ease into it, where to get it and approx. > costs? I just started a multivitamin a couple of days ago. Have not been consistent > with them due to indigestion after taking them, but I know I need them and will put > up with it to get better. I take it with food even. Any tips on how the indigestion can > be alleviated with regard to the M-Vit? > > Feel free to ask any questions. Advice would be appreciated! > > Janet Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 > #2 Your adrenal tests very well may show 'normal'. These tests are > designed for extremes of adrenal disorder, not for weakness, which is > what most of us have. Should your doc view the tests and pooh- pooh > medication (You don't want to be on it unless you HAVE to be; its a > steroid.), you can help yourself tremendously with the use of both > raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the > internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; the difference is > remarkable and noteworthy. I am SO GLAD someone posted this...this is exactly what I think also....in fact, I will be VERY surprised if the morning cortisol will show anything remarkable that the doctor will decide to treat....these tests, as has been mentioned, are really not set up to detect adrenal " fatigue " or even exhaustion, but only the life threatening exremes. Adrenal glandulars are good, Isocort is good,...when my doctor (who belives more in saliva testing for adrenals, but also believes that even they might not give the true picture)put my son on Cortef it demystified it for me and made me decide to treat myself with Cortef. it is the fast track to strengthening adrenals, as our doctor put it. Adam had no time to waste and no opportunity to get more rest and less stress in his life - he was already on good vitamins for some months and had taken some Isocrt for a few weeks before his test) As long as you keep your dose of cortef to the physiologic (as opposed to the pharmacologic doses sometimes given) dose of no more than 20mg daily (half of what healthy adrenals produce) it will allow your adrenals to rest and recharge while not shutting them down. the fear factor comes in because so many of us believe steroids to be the " kiss of death " - I know I did...and getting past this belief is the trick. I would not take it if you are at all worried about it's affects...and also as long as your adrenal problems are not so serious to warrant it. The other supplements are fine and will do the trick. but be ready to have to treat yourself for adrenal fatigue...most doctors don't understand it enough to want to deal with it. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 >>>>in fact, I will be VERY surprised if the morning cortisol will show anything remarkable that the doctor will decide to treat....these tests, as has been mentioned, are really not set up to detect adrenal " fatigue " or even exhaustion, This is so true! I " ve yet to see anyone's AM cortisol come back abnormal enough for their doc to treat....it is really weird. I am getting to the point where I don't tell the ladies to have their docs run that test...especially if they pay out of pocket. I have found that " symptoms " just like thyroid should be watched and treated accordingly.. Hugs..PattiSue Re: Adrenal Info Anyone? > #2 Your adrenal tests very well may show 'normal'. These tests are > designed for extremes of adrenal disorder, not for weakness, which is > what most of us have. Should your doc view the tests and pooh- pooh > medication (You don't want to be on it unless you HAVE to be; its a > steroid.), you can help yourself tremendously with the use of both > raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the > internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; the difference is > remarkable and noteworthy. I am SO GLAD someone posted this...this is exactly what I think also....in fact, I will be VERY surprised if the morning cortisol will show anything remarkable that the doctor will decide to treat....these tests, as has been mentioned, are really not set up to detect adrenal " fatigue " or even exhaustion, but only the life threatening exremes. Adrenal glandulars are good, Isocort is good,...when my doctor (who belives more in saliva testing for adrenals, but also believes that even they might not give the true picture)put my son on Cortef it demystified it for me and made me decide to treat myself with Cortef. it is the fast track to strengthening adrenals, as our doctor put it. Adam had no time to waste and no opportunity to get more rest and less stress in his life - he was already on good vitamins for some months and had taken some Isocrt for a few weeks before his test) As long as you keep your dose of cortef to the physiologic (as opposed to the pharmacologic doses sometimes given) dose of no more than 20mg daily (half of what healthy adrenals produce) it will allow your adrenals to rest and recharge while not shutting them down. the fear factor comes in because so many of us believe steroids to be the " kiss of death " - I know I did...and getting past this belief is the trick. I would not take it if you are at all worried about it's affects...and also as long as your adrenal problems are not so serious to warrant it. The other supplements are fine and will do the trick. but be ready to have to treat yourself for adrenal fatigue...most doctors don't understand it enough to want to deal with it. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 > This is so true! I " ve yet to see anyone's AM cortisol come back abnormal enough for their doc to treat....it is really weird. I am getting to the point where I don't tell the ladies to have their docs run that test...especially if they pay out of pocket. I have found that " symptoms " just like thyroid should be watched and treated accordingly.. Hugs..PattiSue I agree - I think it is an exercise in frustration and confusion already! Treat the adrenals - it never hurts. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 I thought Isocort was raw adrenal. What is the difference? Under what brand names is raw adrenal sold? Also I think your implying cortef is a steroid, so isn't it by prescription only? Thanks Debbie K. From: astrodiana use of both > raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the > internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; Re: Adrenal Info Anyone? > #2 Your adrenal tests very well may show 'normal'. These tests are > designed for extremes of adrenal disorder, not for weakness, which is > what most of us have. Should your doc view the tests and pooh- pooh > medication (You don't want to be on it unless you HAVE to be; its a > steroid.), you can help yourself tremendously with the use of both > raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the > internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; the difference is > remarkable and noteworthy. for a few weeks before his test) As long as you keep your dose of cortef to the physiologic (as opposed to the pharmacologic doses sometimes given) dose of no more than 20mg daily (half of what healthy adrenals produce) it will allow your adrenals to rest and recharge while not shutting them down. the fear factor comes in because so many of us believe steroids to be the " kiss of Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Yep Yep!!! Hugs..PattiSue Re: Adrenal Info Anyone? > This is so true! I " ve yet to see anyone's AM cortisol come back abnormal enough for their doc to treat....it is really weird. I am getting to the point where I don't tell the ladies to have their docs run that test...especially if they pay out of pocket. I have found that " symptoms " just like thyroid should be watched and treated accordingly.. Hugs..PattiSue I agree - I think it is an exercise in frustration and confusion already! Treat the adrenals - it never hurts. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 > I thought Isocort was raw adrenal. What is the difference? Under what > brand names is raw adrenal sold? > Also I think your implying cortef is a steroid, so isn't it by > prescription only? > Thanks > Debbie K. Isocort is adrenal cortex (adrenal gland of sheep) dried and also thought to still have some active hormone in it (cortisol)...to me, Isocort is another glandular, albeit one that has cortisol in it, which most glandulars on the label will say they don't have. Cortef is natural hydrocortisone....for tired adrenals it is prescribed in 5mg dose, 4 x daily, like every 3 hours and not to be taken past about 3-4:00PM. We can get it without a script online at masters marketing, UK. I use deltacortil, which is actual prednisolone (not natural, but longer acting than cortef)..Dr. Peatfield uses deltacortil 2.5 mg (4 x the strength of cortef, so 25. mg = 10mg Cortef) for his adrenal patients because of the long acting quality it has...my doc has said it'as okay to use it interchangeably with cortef as long as you are mindful that it is stronger and you nedd only 5mg. of delta per day. it is cheap...100 2.5 mg tab (enteric coated) for $2.50 from MM...we like it better because Cortef is short lived and needs to be taken every 3 hours to prevent gaps in the energy level. My son uses Cortef when he's home and delta when he's got a full day away from home and won't be taking another one for some hours. I posted Dr. Peatfield's article about deltacortil about a week ago and can post again if anyone is interested. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 They did the AM-only cortisol on me 4 years ago; I was insured at the time. I think that they ran the damn test to appease me when I raised the issue back then. It was Endo #1 that ordered it. By the time I got to Endo #5, they were asking why I put up with this crap so long. Just an FYI: Endo #4 and Endo #5 were women. #4 diagnosed the disease by running antibodies tests; #5 got me the Armour rather than the Synth that did nothing for me expect give me pretty numbers. (My little Pro-women statement for the day....) I often wonder why we, living here in what is presumed to be the world's premiere medical arena, have to figure so much out on our own. And, why is it that we, laregly non-MD's, can generally find our own best remedy if we are bold enough to go there. I caution all that self-treat to do so carefully. Run your own tests; validate your own treatment empirically where you can. Do the occational doctor 'sanity-check' to ensure you (and them, if necessary) that you are not stepping out into questionable territory. Its your health, so be careful. R. > >>>>in fact, I will be VERY surprised if the morning cortisol > will show anything remarkable that the doctor will decide to > treat....these tests, as has been mentioned, are really not set up to > detect adrenal " fatigue " or even exhaustion, > This is so true! I " ve yet to see anyone's AM cortisol come back abnormal enough for their doc to treat....it is really weird. I am getting to the point where I don't tell the ladies to have their docs run that test...especially if they pay out of pocket. I have found that " symptoms " just like thyroid should be watched and treated accordingly.. Hugs..PattiSue ----- Original Message ----- > From: astrodiana > To: NaturalThyroidHormones > Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 10:54 AM > Subject: Re: Adrenal Info Anyone? > > > > > #2 Your adrenal tests very well may show 'normal'. These tests are > > designed for extremes of adrenal disorder, not for weakness, which > is > > what most of us have. Should your doc view the tests and pooh- > pooh > > medication (You don't want to be on it unless you HAVE to be; its a > > steroid.), you can help yourself tremendously with the use of both > > raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the > > internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; the difference is > > remarkable and noteworthy. > > > > I am SO GLAD someone posted this...this is exactly what I think > also....in fact, I will be VERY surprised if the morning cortisol > will show anything remarkable that the doctor will decide to > treat....these tests, as has been mentioned, are really not set up to > detect adrenal " fatigue " or even exhaustion, but only the life > threatening exremes. Adrenal glandulars are good, Isocort is > good,...when my doctor (who belives more in saliva testing for > adrenals, but also believes that even they might not give the true > picture)put my son on Cortef it demystified it for me and made me > decide to treat myself with Cortef. it is the fast track to > strengthening adrenals, as our doctor put it. Adam had no time to > waste and no opportunity to get more rest and less stress in his > life - he was already on good vitamins for some months and had taken > some Isocrt for a few weeks before his test) As long as you keep > your dose of cortef to the physiologic (as opposed to the > pharmacologic doses sometimes given) dose of no more than 20mg daily > (half of what healthy adrenals produce) it will allow your adrenals > to rest and recharge while not shutting them down. the fear factor > comes in because so many of us believe steroids to be the " kiss of > death " - I know I did...and getting past this belief is the trick. I > would not take it if you are at all worried about it's affects...and > also as long as your adrenal problems are not so serious to warrant > it. The other supplements are fine and will do the trick. but be > ready to have to treat yourself for adrenal fatigue...most doctors > don't understand it enough to want to deal with it. > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 For those interested in IsoCort, it contains 2.5mg of hydrocortisone per tablet. The adrenal cortex produces at least 20 known cortisones. When you take Cortef or another hydrocortisone prescription, you are only getting the one major cortisone that the adrenals make. So, a benifit of IsoCort, in spite of it's low cortisone levels per pill, is that you are also getting other cortisones that might be helpful and needed. You would need about 5 IsoCort tablets to equal the hydrocortisone in 10 mg of cortef. IsoCort should also be dissolved under the tongue for better absorption. Prednisone is a man made cortisone and does not chemically match human hydrocortisone. That is why it is so potent and stays in the body longer. Prednisone, therefore has more dangers in causing atrophy or weakening of the adrenal gland and in making it more difficult for the adrenals to return to normal function after discontinuing it. More care should be taken with the dose and making sure it is not too high. I personally like IsoCort because it gave me much fewer upset stomach problems. But, they are weaker and so more expensive and some people might not assimulate it as well as other medications. Tish Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Great answer, . If it helps at all, take a look at Teitelbaum's remedy sheet (where they check off what they think it is that you as their patient need) and you will see that the directions for using Isocort are the same directions for using Cortef. These directions differ from those provided for the use of raw adrenals. R. > > I thought Isocort was raw adrenal. What is the difference? Under > what > > brand names is raw adrenal sold? > > Also I think your implying cortef is a steroid, so isn't it by > > prescription only? > > Thanks > > Debbie K. > > > > Isocort is adrenal cortex (adrenal gland of sheep) dried and also > thought to still have some active hormone in it (cortisol)...to me, > Isocort is another glandular, albeit one that has cortisol in it, > which most glandulars on the label will say they don't have. > Cortef is natural hydrocortisone....for tired adrenals it is > prescribed in 5mg dose, 4 x daily, like every 3 hours and not to be > taken past about 3-4:00PM. We can get it without a script online at > masters marketing, UK. I use deltacortil, which is actual > prednisolone (not natural, but longer acting than cortef)..Dr. > Peatfield uses deltacortil 2.5 mg (4 x the strength of cortef, so > 25. mg = 10mg Cortef) for his adrenal patients because of the long > acting quality it has...my doc has said it'as okay to use it > interchangeably with cortef as long as you are mindful that it is > stronger and you nedd only 5mg. of delta per day. it is cheap...100 > 2.5 mg tab (enteric coated) for $2.50 from MM...we like it better > because Cortef is short lived and needs to be taken every 3 hours to > prevent gaps in the energy level. My son uses Cortef when he's home > and delta when he's got a full day away from home and won't be taking > another one for some hours. I posted Dr. Peatfield's article about > deltacortil about a week ago and can post again if anyone is > interested. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 >The endo I'm seeing now had me do a 24-hour urine for cortisol based on my continued various symptoms. It came back at 29 (3.5-45). I talked with his nurse yesterday about worsening symptoms and he's sending me an order for an 8AM Cortisol.< The trouble with a 24 hour sample, is that you can't tell if the hormone is released/distributed throughout the day in the appropriate amounts. So - even though it is in a normal range, Is the actual out put happening at the normal times? Same with the morning cortisol.... After a nights rest, its bound to come back normal too. Just a thought - if it was me, I would be advocating for a more full picture - the test which is 4 times throughout the day. Sure its a pain, but I bet collecting 24 hours or urine was too. Just my 2 cents. Patti in MI Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Canyou privde a data source for the info below? I am not questioning it in any way; I just want to be able to validate its use to a doc. if thats possible to do. R. > For those interested in IsoCort, it contains 2.5mg of hydrocortisone > per tablet. The adrenal cortex produces at least 20 known > cortisones. When you take Cortef or another hydrocortisone > prescription, you are only getting the one major cortisone that the > adrenals make. So, a benifit of IsoCort, in spite of it's low > cortisone levels per pill, is that you are also getting other > cortisones that might be helpful and needed. You would need about 5 > IsoCort tablets to equal the hydrocortisone in 10 mg of cortef. > IsoCort should also be dissolved under the tongue for better > absorption. > > Prednisone is a man made cortisone and does not chemically match > human hydrocortisone. That is why it is so potent and stays in the > body longer. Prednisone, therefore has more dangers in causing > atrophy or weakening of the adrenal gland and in making it more > difficult for the adrenals to return to normal function after > discontinuing it. More care should be taken with the dose and making > sure it is not too high. > > I personally like IsoCort because it gave me much fewer upset > stomach problems. But, they are weaker and so more expensive and > some people might not assimulate it as well as other medications. > > Tish Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 > Canyou privde a data source for the info below? I am not questioning > it in any way; I just want to be able to validate its use to a doc. > if thats possible to do. > R. You will find NOWHERE that it says Isocort contains 2.5 mg of cortisol...if it did, I would also be taking it instead of cortef. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 RE: How much hydrocortisone in IsoCort I searched and searched for the original article that gave this information. It is no longer on the web, I guess. I have seen this dose listed on a doctor's fibromyalgia sites, also. It is given here in a Dr. Teitelbaum article (scroll to near the bottom). http://dreampharm.com/hepatitis-info3/nutritional-treatments-fatigue- 2-28cfids-03.html A long time ago I wrote to the company and asked them to verify this after reading that Isocort contained this amount of hydrocortisone. They got all huffy saying I had to consult a practitioner. Practitioners can get this info from the company. A druggist might also be able to find this out for you if you need more solid verification. Tish Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 You can easily check for adrenal fatigue by getting a blood pressure cuff and checking your blood pressure lying down and then again standing up. If the pressure drops any when you stand, you have adrenal fatigue. You can also shine a bright light in your eyes and have someone or you look at your pupils to see if they are constricting and staying constricted. Hold the light there for at least a minute. In adrenal fatigue the pupil cannot remain constricted and either will open back up or will flutter as it attempts to block out the light but is having trouble. These tests indicate a lack of sufficient adrenal hormones. If you think you have adrenal fatigue, why not just buy some licorice root tea or loose herb (not deglycerized). Take I teaspoon in a tea 4 times a day. This is very roughly equivelent to about 5mg of hydrocortisone depending on the freshness and potency of the herb. You can also get it in tablet form. If you feel better, then suspect you have adrenal fatigue. Licorice root does not have hydrocortisone in it, but slows the removal in the liver of the hydrocortisone that you do have in your system, so it sort of builds up a little. My own experience was that 1 teaspoon was roughly equivelent to 5 mg. Life Extension Foundation used to have a good article on adrenal fatigue and recommended this dose. They have changed their site and now it's harder to read, but you can get the info of a sort from here: http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-002a.shtml#natadr Scroll down untill you find the licorice link. They now recommend licorice pills, probably to make money and to guarantee a known dose. Tish Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 HI Tish, I was wondering where you have found the info on Isocort and it's ingredience. I would like to read documentation on this. Thanks!! PattiSue Re: Adrenal Info Anyone? For those interested in IsoCort, it contains 2.5mg of hydrocortisone per tablet. The adrenal cortex produces at least 20 known cortisones. When you take Cortef or another hydrocortisone prescription, you are only getting the one major cortisone that the adrenals make. So, a benifit of IsoCort, in spite of it's low cortisone levels per pill, is that you are also getting other cortisones that might be helpful and needed. You would need about 5 IsoCort tablets to equal the hydrocortisone in 10 mg of cortef. IsoCort should also be dissolved under the tongue for better absorption. Prednisone is a man made cortisone and does not chemically match human hydrocortisone. That is why it is so potent and stays in the body longer. Prednisone, therefore has more dangers in causing atrophy or weakening of the adrenal gland and in making it more difficult for the adrenals to return to normal function after discontinuing it. More care should be taken with the dose and making sure it is not too high. I personally like IsoCort because it gave me much fewer upset stomach problems. But, they are weaker and so more expensive and some people might not assimulate it as well as other medications. Tish Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Are you speaking of saliva tests or blood tests? -- Re: Re: Adrenal Info Anyone? >>>>in fact, I will be VERY surprised if the morning cortisol will show anything remarkable that the doctor will decide to treat....these tests, as has been mentioned, are really not set up to detect adrenal " fatigue " or even exhaustion, This is so true! I " ve yet to see anyone's AM cortisol come back abnormal enough for their doc to treat....it is really weird. I am getting to the point where I don't tell the ladies to have their docs run that test.. especially if they pay out of pocket. I have found that " symptoms " just like thyroid should be watched and treated accordingly.. Hugs..PattiSue > #2 Your adrenal tests very well may show 'normal'. These tests are > designed for extremes of adrenal disorder, not for weakness, which is > what most of us have. Should your doc view the tests and pooh- pooh > medication (You don't want to be on it unless you HAVE to be; its a > steroid.), you can help yourself tremendously with the use of both > raw adrenal (sold over the counter) and Isocort (sold on the > internet). I do the Isocort and adrenal; the difference is > remarkable and noteworthy. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 > > Are you speaking of saliva tests or blood tests? > > I think we were both speaking of a single AM blood draw to measure cortisol levels...or even a second one or an ACTH stim test as far as I am concerned....the doctor who looks at the results is also important...mine would have been okay with a 24 hour urine just bcause insurance pays for it...but would take the results with a grain of salt and also look at symptoms and have this test there to " protect " him when he writes a script for Cortef...mine thinks saliva tests are more telling...BUT NOT ALWAYS EITHER...he calls it " a snapshot in time " and said he doctor had just been at a convention where the same saliva samples were sent to 7 labs and each came oup with dramtically different results...so the lab and the person conducting the test and reading the result are all wild cards...the variance in saliva testing has given them the rep of being unrelable and therefore insurance generally won;t cover them. to me, I think the more sure-fire way to get the help you need for your adrenals is to treat them with OTC glandulars, or glyzzerine (from licorice root, if you have no problems with high b/p) or Isocort and proper vitamins, rest, and diet. It never hurts and can only help. Quote
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2004 Report Posted February 18, 2004 Thanks everyone for all the feedback! VERY MUCH appreciated!! It's really great to feel validated. When I'm feeling as bad as I am, it's way too easy to think I'm just imagining all this and that I'm alone. In trying to piece all the various info together (Isn't brain fog great?!?!?), what is an example of an " OTC glandular " and where would one obtain a good quality glandulard? Which are by prescription only? Would I NEED the prescription kind of replacement? I don't currently have insurance so this 8AM cortisol level will be another out-of- pocket expense. I'm thinking my doctor is just trying to have the " hard data " so he'll be " justified " in giving me a script. And that's okay -- but if it were up to me, I wouldn't feel the need to do the test and would feel absolutely comfortable doing the adrenal support based on just my symptoms. I've been watching and listening to my body for so very long now and trust it so much more. And after having read all of the posts here validating my symptoms, I'm like 95% sure that this is what's preventing my thyroid medication from making me feel better than I feel I should. And I agree that the 8AM cortisol level is just one piece of a more extensive picture. One at 8PM, too, would be a little bit better at completing the picture. I'm assuming my 8AM will be low based on how I feel in the mornings. Am I correct here? I " usually " pick up a little after a cup or two of very weak coffee, am fairly okay until about 3-4PM when I would really love to go to bed for the night. Not realistic! Feel crappy until 7-8PM and then I'm usually wide awake until 1-2AM. Even if I get 8 hours of sleep, and after switching to Armour my sleep has been a big improvement, the " morning " is still a real bitch. Lately my heart rate has been right around 80. Sometimes a little higher, like in the 90s. BP has been 140s/90s, max. Normal for me is 120s/80s or less. I started noticing my BP as elevated last winter and spring, before I started real thyroid treatment. Isn't this kind of backwards? Will do a few BPs sitting and standing. As far as temps go, I was usually 97.8 or so. There were times at work where my temp was right around 100. I worked in a hospital and the equipment was there, so I checked the times when I would feel hotter. This really surprised me. But lately, at home, my temps have been pretty normal, 98.5-98.7 except during the evenings where I can be 98.8-99.2. Have been doing some " mapping " and documenting. Any feedback on this and the above med questions? You guys are so great!! Thanks! Janet > > > > Are you speaking of saliva tests or blood tests? > > > > > > > > I think we were both speaking of a single AM blood draw to measure > cortisol levels...or even a second one or an ACTH stim test as far as > I am concerned....the doctor who looks at the results is also > important...mine would have been okay with a 24 hour urine just > bcause insurance pays for it...but would take the results with a > grain of salt and also look at symptoms and have this test there > to " protect " him when he writes a script for Cortef...mine thinks > saliva tests are more telling...BUT NOT ALWAYS EITHER...he calls > it " a snapshot in time " and said he doctor had just been at a > convention where the same saliva samples were sent to 7 labs and each > came oup with dramtically different results...so the lab and the > person conducting the test and reading the result are all wild > cards...the variance in saliva testing has given them the rep of > being unrelable and therefore insurance generally won;t cover them. > to me, I think the more sure-fire way to get the help you need for > your adrenals is to treat them with OTC glandulars, or glyzzerine > (from licorice root, if you have no problems with high b/p) or > Isocort and proper vitamins, rest, and diet. It never hurts and can > only help. Quote
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