Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Posted October 4, 2006 Hi All, I am on nomail right now but just wanted to post a few thoughts here on this one for all to chew on. First, Jenn and Ruth it is nice to meet you. Sorry we had to meet on a diabetic list. It would have been much nicer to meet over coffee grin. Harry can take anyone's questions on my post since I am not getting list mail right now due to my work schedule working 50 to 70 hour weeks. However, if anyone has questions for me, please email me directly at jdaubenm@... but it may be a few days for me to reply due to my work so Harry is the best bet if you want immediate feedback since he knows all this too. Now this is a lengthy post, so be warned, but it will spark a lot of good and helpful conversation on list so I'd like to encourage you to read it over a few times prior to replying. Buckle up... here it comes! *grin*. While you read my post, keep one word in mind as you read... swings. My 14 day average for the past three weeks is 82 or 4.5 Canadian. I am following bernsteins diet and have normalized my sugars. A very important concept to understand is that there is a key difference between running good sugars and normalizing your sugars. Following bernsteins diet and advice, my range is 80 at pre meal, 4.5 Canadian, 80 first hour, 80 second hour, and 80 past that. If I go high it is like 90 to 95 (5.0 to 5.2 Canadian). This is what is meant by normalizing your sugars. my a1c should be 4.5 but that is not the benefit, I have no swings at all in my sugars and if so, it is only by a 10 point raze/fall. Previously I was running an a1c of 5.2 and my sugars would go out of range to 150 and sometimes 300. I am sure every diabetic here can relate to those *large* swings even with a good a1c level. Those out of range times are what cause damage and complications over time even if your a1c is 5. What really stuck out to me from doctor bernstein is that there is a *huge* difference between running good sugars and running *normalized* sugars. Normalized sugars are where you run 80 to 90 all the time (4.5 to 5.0 Canadian). That is what mimics the perfect chemistry of a non-diabetic. In order to do that, he has you eat only slow acting carbos from vegetables such as green beans, broccoli, etc. The non starchy vegetables. For breakfast he has you eat 6 grams, lunch 12, and dinner 12. So you do eat carbohydrates, it is just from slow acting carbohydrates that do not cause you to go out of range. So do not mistake that Dr Bernstein does not have you eat carbos, you do, it is just from slow acting carbs rather than quick acting like bread, rice, pasta, etc. Past the slow acting carbos at each meal, he has you eat only protein to fill up. You keep your carbo and protein levels exact at each meal to be consistent with your insulin doses. He gave a formulat to figure out/calculate how much *minimum* protein you need to survive. The formula is based on your ideal weight: weight / 2.2 = weight in kilos * 1 = total grams protein / 6 so mine is: 160 pounds divided by 2.2 equals 73 kilos times 1 equals 73 divided by 6 equals 12 ounces of protein minimum a day to survive. So I eat 4 ounces of protein at each meal and more if I get hungry. My doses of insulin are extremely low. Each meal I dose 3 to 4 units of humalog and my long acting is only 8 units total a day. So I am taking 20 units of insulin total a day. Previously I would bolis 20 units of humalog at a meal to cover the carbs with humalog, for example pasta. Then at times would spike out of range having misjudged the carbo content or worse yet, go low from dosing slightly to much then I would have to over eat. All these swings running an a1c of 5.2. Again, the main benefit to this is your sugar runs 80 to 90 all of the time which fully eleminates any swings. They are *normalized* and not just good. If you swing out of range it is only by a 10 point margin so 90 for a high or 70 to 80 for a low. Just to give you an idea... the other day I was at work at lunch, and did not have a needle to dose my insulin so I did not get any humalog insulin for my meal. Lunch had 12 grams of slow acting vegetable carbs from green beans and 4 ounces of meat from tuna and cheese. Two hours later my sugar, with no insulin, was only 120. Had I ate 12 grams of quick acting carbs, for example a slice of bread, and did not dose humalog, my sugar easily would have been 300! Stick with me... let me hold your interest a little longer... keep reading! *grin*. This really works and I'd like to encourage you to start on it. It is not easy, but I will no longer be eating quick acting carbs at all. Ever. Bernstein says the day you take a bite of one, especially if you have a carbo addiction, you will get bac on them and start experiencing the larger swings in your sugars which cause the damage over time. Certainly eating like this is not easy but my family is very supportive of this and sees the benefits. My doctor as well. Bare in mind, Doctor Bernstein has been a type 1 diabetic for 60 years and is a medical doctor. He has 25 years of research on all his patients that shows this works. While you may find this information very challanging, I'd like to at least encourage you to be open to study it for the information even if you do not apply it/use it. Again, my 14 day average is 82 and my a1c will be around 4.5. However, the main benefit is not the a1c, the main benefit is *no more* larger swings at all. I actually feel like I have a high sugar when my sugar is 115. It actually feels like I am running a sugar of 300 when I reach 115 now. Without the large swings there cannot be any damage to the body. A large swing is anything over 120. Bernsteins advice is that you should always view insulin like this... it is a goal to take as little as possible at each meal. Large doses of insulin cause high blood pressure, drastic lows, weight gain, and many other negative side effects. By lowering your insulin requirements to the bare minimum you are helping your body in so many ways. I feel great! Without all those carbs and refined sugars in me my body feels so much better! Trust me all, start on this and in three months go to the doctor and see the benefits. You will be amazed and feel so much better! I thought I felt great at an a1c of 5.2 but man now do I ever feel great and packed full of energy! As far as protein hurting the kidneys... Bernstein has 25 years worth of research on his patients that shows they have no kidney damage from it. In fact, many of the patients kidneys that were showing damage reversed. Why? Simple, it is the sugar swings and elevated a1c levels that cause the damage to the kidneys, not protein! Bare in mind though that you *can* damage your body running an a1c of 5 since most swing up to 170, 280, down to 50, and so on. It is partially deceptive thinking that an a1c of 5 wil not cause complications over time since it certainly can. Think of how often you swing out of range either high or very low miscalculating quick acting carbos. The swings are what cause the damage even with an a1c of 5. When you *normalize* your sugars, you never go out of range so the swings cannot damage your body. I'd like to encourage you to view your diabetes management as controling swings rather than only viewing your control by an a1c. How often do you swing out of range? Start to notice this since it is what causes the damage. I never swing out of range now following dr b's medical advice. I never go out of range... I am running 80 all the time. One more thing... I'd like to encourage you to purchase dr bernsteins audio series on his training. It is a bit pricy, $129 plus shipping, but it contains 6 hours/all the training he would give you if you were there so well worth the cost considering you do not have to fly to new york for the training nor pay him directly for it. Most of the information I knew but the few nuggets I picked up were worth the cost. They will prolong my life. I particurally know that you will enjoy his scientific explanations on many aspects of diabetes on the body. Those segments are clinical in nature but very easy to understand. Fascinating really. Here is some information on the audio cds then a link that will take you to the page where you can order them if you want too. I strongly encourage you to do it if you can afford it. It will refine you to perfection and you will no longer swing. The Most Complete, Step By Step Diabetes Solution Program is now available on 5 CD's For Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes, Secrets To Normal Blood Sugars is the entire education program taught by Dr. K. Bernstein to his patients. A compilation of his two best selling books, Diabetes Solution, and The Diabetes Diet, the Secrets To Normal Blood Sugars contains new, more up-to-date information, and is being made available on 5 Audio CD's, categorized by subject, and containing 6 hours of education that can be listened to anywhere, making this beyond question, the easiest way to educate yourself and your patients on how to better manage diabetes, and stop forever the complications of cronic high blood sugars. These CDs were recorded during actual visits to Dr. Bernstein's office. He reviews with you the steps you need to take in order to control your blood sugars and prevent the complications from diabetes. Dr. Bernstein, author of the Diabetes Solution and The Diabetes Diet spends six hours educating and teaching you all about ways to control your diabetes. From diet, exercise, medications, foot care, dental care, blood glucose monitoring, how insulin works, you will learn the same knowledge that he gives to his patients when they come to his office in Mamaroneck, NY. His insights will provide you the knowledge to understand how your body works and how you can overcome the problems that are associated with diabetes. There is a package for Type 1 Diabetes and Type 2 Diabetes. 5 CD's Containing The Personal Diabetes Education Program taught by Dr. Bernstein to his patients. You'd have to fly to New York to get this anywhere else. You can pick up a copy of the audio cds here: http://www.diabetes911.net/secrets.php Regards, Message for Harry >>> >>>> Hi Harry, >>>> >>>> I would like to know where you get some of this information from? >>>> In all my >>>> 32 years as a diabetic, at NO time was I ever told to eat high >>>> carbs and no >>>> protein. It has always been a balance of carbs, proteins, fats, >>>> fruits and >>>> vegetables, and milk products. You can get nothing from fat but >>>> more fat on >>>> your body. As for the kidneys, once the kidney cells are damaged, >>>> theycannot come back. You can as you said slow it down or stop it >>>> for awhile. >>>> I had a friend who was a nurse and looked after herself impeccably >>>> and still >>>> lost her kidneys and eyesight, and know another person who has not >>>> lookedafter herself as well and did not lose anything. Genetics >>>> plays into the >>>> equation. As far as infections go, I was always told that these >>>> can raise >>>> blood sugars. Bottom line is always everything in balance! >>>> >>>> Ruth >>>> >>>> >>>> Quote
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Posted October 4, 2006 Instead of eating three meals each day do you think consuming fewer grams of carbs for six or seven times each day would make a difference? Would this lower your insulin requirement? Would this yield better bs readings? I am not a type1, so I don't know if it would make a difference in a positive direction or not. I can say for sure it makes a positive difference for me a type2. Which is more important for a diabetic, diet or exercise? I am just asking, and I do not know the answers. If you haven't tried it, then how do you know what works and what does not work? I hope this can be figured out soon. Re: Message for Harry > There are so many factors and I don't know if just controlling food would > normalize blood sugars if that means keeping them steady all the time. For > me it is not that I don't know what I am doing. I know exactly how I > should be able to control my blood sugars. I've done a lot of reading and > research and know what should affect what in which way. It just doesn't > always work as it is supposed to, and I would also like more precise tools > like being able to give half units of insulin. What about exercise and > stress and illness and hormones and changes in schedules and just the > unpredictability factor when all of these things are combined? And random > things like insulin pens malfunctioning or insulin requirements changing > every few weeks, which they apparently do? There are so many factors that > can make blood sugars vary not just the amount of carbohydrates eaten. > > I can do the same thing two days in a row and be high one day and normal > the next. In fact that happened to me this month when I woke up at 15.7 > one morning and was 16.9 mid-morning after giving extra insulin. The next > morning I was 15.8 and gave the same amount of insulin and was 7.4 > mid-morning. I had the same breakfast both mornings and so I do not think > it was food. In fact I had the same routine both mornings as far as I can > tell. I have started recording my blood sugars again in hopes of figuring > out some of these things. > > Eating out at restaurants I still end up high sometimes but I split my > insulin dose and give 80% at the meal and then 20% plus an extra unit or > two an hour and a half or two hours later, and my readings are usually > fine afterwards. It means an extra injection but it usually works well. I > have eaten pizza and been 5.1 a few hours later instead of 20 like I was > when I was younger. Then the only problem is that I shoot way up overnight > and end up really high in the morning. But then that happens most of the > time anyway, just not as high, so not much I can do there. > > I am not doing that great right now but if I could keep my overnight blood > sugars in a good range I would be good. As it is I am spending half of > each 24-hour period high as far as I can tell. I'm going to ask my doctor > about splitting my Lantus dose into a morning and evening shot. I would be > happy with an A1c a point lower than I have it right now. > > I am curious about what this doctor has to say but I am also skeptical. If > it works for some people that is great but I don't know if you can say > that it will work for everyone. I don't have $150 or whatever it would be > in Canadian funds to buy his CD set. I wonder if the library would have > it. I agree that it would do no harm to listen to them, but I am guessing > that he has a more regular schedule than a lot of people. Plus it is > harder for us ladies! The roller coaster is just a part of diabetes, at > least type 1, from everyone I have talked to. > > But still, compared to where I was before I started Lantus a year and a > half ago I am doing really well. I would just like to do somewhat better. > > Jen > > Quote
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2006 Report Posted October 4, 2006 With your help maybe we can get this thing figured out. Do you think the roller coaster is just a way of life with the type1, and it just must be accepted as a fact? If a couple of type1's can get off that roller coaster, does this mean that it is impossible for others? After all two out of thousands of folks is what I would call a rare exception. Some people like riding on a roller coaster. Is it worth it to consume fewer grams at a meal or snack many more times per day or is this just a pipe dream? If I ate fewer carbsmany more times per day, does this mean I am really different from " normal folks " ? Does accentuating my differentness mean I am really wierd? I don't know. Maybe you do? Message for Harry > > One of the principles Dr. Bernstein teaches is the law of large numbers. > When we eat large amounts of carbs and use large amounts of insulin to > cover it the chances for many possible small changes making a large > difference in results is also large. The small events are too numerous > and > too unpredictable to account for them by using the crude techniques we > have > to cover large amounts of carbs. > > If we eat small amounts of carbs and use small amounts of insulin small > changes have small results. The law describes and explains the diabetic > rollercoaster effect and the constant chasing with insulin or glucose the > previous number in the ups and downs. With fewer carbs by definition the > ups and downs will be smaller if they occur. The law explains clearly the > below: > > " There are so many factors and I don't know if just controlling food would > normalize blood sugars if that means keeping them steady all the time. For > me it is not that I don't know what I am doing. I know exactly how I > should > be > able to control my blood sugars. I've done a lot of reading and research > and > know what should affect what in which way. It just doesn't always work as > it > is supposed to, and I would also like more precise tools like being able > to > give half units of insulin. What about exercise and stress and illness and > hormones and changes in schedules and just the unpredictability factor > when > all of these things are combined? And random things like insulin pens > malfunctioning or insulin requirements changing every few weeks, which > they > apparently do? There are so many factors that can make blood sugars vary > not > just the amount of carbohydrates eaten. > > I can do the same thing two days in a row and be high one day and normal > the > next. In fact that happened to me this month when I woke up at 15.7 one > morning and was 16.9 mid-morning after giving extra insulin. The next > morning I was 15.8 and gave the same amount of insulin and was 7.4 > mid-morning. I had > the same breakfast both mornings and so I do not think it was food. In > fact I had the same routine both mornings as far as I can tell. I have > started > recording my blood sugars again in hopes of figuring out some of these > things. > > Eating out at restaurants I still end up high sometimes but I split my > insulin dose and give 80% at the meal and then 20% plus an extra unit or > two an hour > and a half or two hours later, and my readings are usually fine > afterwards. It means an extra injection but it usually works well. I have > eaten pizza and been 5.1 a few hours later instead of 20 like I was when I > was younger. Then the > only problem is that I shoot way up overnight and end up really high in > the > morning. But then that happens most of the time anyway, just not as high, > so > not much I can do there. > > I am not doing that great right now but if I could keep my overnight blood > sugars in a good range I would be good. As it is I am spending half of > each > 24-hour period high as far as I can tell. I'm going to ask my doctor about > splitting my Lantus dose into a morning and evening shot. I would be happy > with an A1c a point lower than I have it right now. > > I am curious about what this doctor has to say but I am also skeptical. If > it > works for some people that is great but I don't know if you can say that > it > will work for everyone. I don't have $150 or whatever it would be in > Canadian funds to buy his CD set. I wonder if the library would have it. I > agree that it would do no harm to listen to them, but I am guessing that > he > has a more > regular schedule than a lot of people. Plus it is harder for us ladies! > The > roller coaster is just a part of diabetes, at least type 1, from everyone > I > have talked to. " > > XB > IC|XC xb > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted October 10, 2006 Report Posted October 10, 2006 Hi Harry, Sounds like you could have been a diabetic long before you were diagnosed. You said that even after you were diagnosed, that you ate crazy things. You are not alone in this crazy making. I did it too. Our bodies crave even more sugar when we are not in control of our diabetes, so we keep doing stupid things while our bodies eat us up. It is too bad that you had to be the firstin your family. You got it under control now and that is what counts. Keep up the good work! Ruth Quote
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