Sourdough Bread

November 20, 1999

Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it doesn't have

yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you get it with whole

wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form, can we eat it? Thanks,

November 20, 1999

It depends on what your diet restrictions are - the diet I was on allowed me

to eat wheat on a weekly basis, but absolutely no yeast! Watch the

ingredients on sourdough since many of the commercial (and home made)

versions use yeast in their original starter to make it rise higher (my

sourdough starter recipe calls for yeast). Other diets that I read about

said no to wheat and flours unless it was spelt flour (a heritage strain

that wouldn't cause any reactions). You could try it for one day and log

any symptoms you may incur from it - that's what most of the books I had

read said - try " unsure " items on a one day basis, log your symptoms and go

from there.

Kath.

Re: sourdough bread

>From: Geoffroy <michellecmc@...>

>

>Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it doesn't

have

>yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you get it with whole

>wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form, can we eat it? Thanks,

>

November 20, 1999

Oh , Do you have a recipe for that bread. Every sourdough recipie

that I have calles for yeast to make the starter. Myra

Re: sourdough bread

From: Geoffroy <michellecmc@...>

Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it doesn't have

yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you get it with whole

wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form, can we eat it? Thanks,

_

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November 20, 1999

>>Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it

>>doesn't have yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you

>>get it with whole wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form,

>>can we eat it? Thanks,

>>

Yes, there is yeast in sourdough bread... natural yeast. On page 156 of

the " Yeast Connection Cookbook: a Guide to Good Nutrition and Better

Heath " by G. Crook, M.D. and Marjorie Hurt , R.N., the

subtitle says " Sourdough is Yeast Bread " . It continues to say... " Even

though no yeast starter was deliberately added, we now know that the

full day of " proofing " allowed the bread to pick up the free-floating

wild yeast drifting in off the Pacific Ocean. " (talking about the San

Francisco sourdough). Don't let anyone tell you that sourdough is a

yeast-free bread. It may be free of commercial yeast, but not natural

yeast. And yes you can get it with whole wheat.

After the kill-off of all the yeasties when people go back on a " normal "

diet, individuals have been known to be able to eat yeast breads

ocassionally. I use " normal " loosely... as the " normal " diet should be a

" relaxed " candida diet... not going back to the foods we ate before we

got sick... I'm talking from experience as I went back to " pre-candida "

diet and am having to start from square one again.

Good Luck,

Collien

November 21, 1999

I am sorry, I don't have a recipe for the bread. I found a websight that

said they sold a yeast free sourdough bread so I thought I would ask about

it. I don't have the address off hand but I will get it and forward it to

you. Thanks for your previous email too. I appreciate it.

Re: sourdough bread

>

> From: Geoffroy <michellecmc@...>

>

> Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it doesn't

have

> yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you get it with whole

> wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form, can we eat it? Thanks,

>

> _

>

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November 21, 1999

Thanks for the info. I guess that answers that!

Re: Sourdough Bread

> From: Collien Kaseberg <collienk@...>

>

> >>Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it

> >>doesn't have yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you

> >>get it with whole wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form,

> >>can we eat it? Thanks,

> >>

>

> Yes, there is yeast in sourdough bread... natural yeast. On page 156 of

> the " Yeast Connection Cookbook: a Guide to Good Nutrition and Better

> Heath " by G. Crook, M.D. and Marjorie Hurt , R.N., the

> subtitle says " Sourdough is Yeast Bread " . It continues to say... " Even

> though no yeast starter was deliberately added, we now know that the

> full day of " proofing " allowed the bread to pick up the free-floating

> wild yeast drifting in off the Pacific Ocean. " (talking about the San

> Francisco sourdough). Don't let anyone tell you that sourdough is a

> yeast-free bread. It may be free of commercial yeast, but not natural

> yeast. And yes you can get it with whole wheat.

> After the kill-off of all the yeasties when people go back on a " normal "

> diet, individuals have been known to be able to eat yeast breads

> ocassionally. I use " normal " loosely... as the " normal " diet should be a

> " relaxed " candida diet... not going back to the foods we ate before we

> got sick... I'm talking from experience as I went back to " pre-candida "

> diet and am having to start from square one again.

>

> Good Luck,

> Collien

>

> > _

>

> Subscription URL: /subscribe.cgi/candidiasis

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> To subscribe:

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November 21, 1999

:

There are three breads that I'm currently eating; one of which is a

sourdough. I eat a bread by Nokomis called " golden kamut " it is made of

water, sea salt and starter. The label says no added oil, sugar, yeast, no

dairy, water soluble gluten. I also eat manna bread by natures path. There

are about 6 varieties of this bread all made with sprouted grains and with no

yeast or sugar. I also eat organic spelt bread by french meadow which only

containes spelt. water and sea salt. I buy all of them from Whole Foods and

I believe I have a 1-800 # for Nokomis I beleive if you are interested in

ordering directly from them. Now a question from me. I make bread crumbs

quite often out of the kamut and spelt breads. I usually toast the bread and

crumble it up for use in meatballs, meatloaf... Is there a faster, easier way

to make bread crumbs? Can I make them in bulk and freeze? Just a busy mom

of with 4 kids under 6 trying to save time!

Crystal

In a message dated 11/20/99 12:18:05 AM Central Standard Time,

michellecmc@... writes:

<< Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it doesn't

have

yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you get it with whole

wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form, can we eat it? Thanks,

>>

November 22, 1999

Hi Crystal,

What does spelt bread have in it? I would like to bake my own if I could

just need a recipe and some info. Thank you.

Cheerfully,

Myra

Re: Re: sourdough bread

From: Tallmommy@...

:

There are three breads that I'm currently eating; one of which is a

sourdough. I eat a bread by Nokomis called " golden kamut " it is made of

water, sea salt and starter. The label says no added oil, sugar, yeast, no

dairy, water soluble gluten. I also eat manna bread by natures path. There

are about 6 varieties of this bread all made with sprouted grains and with

no

yeast or sugar. I also eat organic spelt bread by french meadow which only

containes spelt. water and sea salt. I buy all of them from Whole Foods and

I believe I have a 1-800 # for Nokomis I beleive if you are interested in

ordering directly from them. Now a question from me. I make bread crumbs

quite often out of the kamut and spelt breads. I usually toast the bread

and

crumble it up for use in meatballs, meatloaf... Is there a faster, easier

way

to make bread crumbs? Can I make them in bulk and freeze? Just a busy mom

of with 4 kids under 6 trying to save time!

Crystal

In a message dated 11/20/99 12:18:05 AM Central Standard Time,

michellecmc@... writes:

<< Does anyone eat sourdough bread on the Candida diet? I know it doesn't

have

yeast, but is it mostly made of refined flour or can you get it with whole

wheat? If you can get it in a whole grain form, can we eat it? Thanks,

>>

_

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October 27, 2005

Krista, I say THROW IT IN THE OVEN and see what comes out. It COULD be fine. You

never

know. When I was learning how to bake sourdough breads I popped out a SUV load

of

" door stop " and virtually inedible loaves. It's all part of the process of

becoming a real

baker. There are NO SHORTCUTS to learning the ART of baking.

If you are like me, you will make EVERY single mistake along the process of

getting there.

Luckily, I'm married to a real artist baker, Rebekah. I am stunned by her

loaves, muffins,

scones, bisquits, tarts, pies, cakes, cornbread, cookies, shortbread, and all

else. It's funny,

we start with virtually the same ingredients, same oven, same, same, same, and

yet, NO

COMPARISON. Incidentally, she made most of these mistakes too and still runs

into snags

and failures. Fortunately, her failures taste good too and I'm a great clean-up

artist for

leftovers! Yum!

It's SO great to be baking though! What a lovely art! This is real SLOW FOOD!!

Keep up the good work and do let us know how this batch turned out! Life is

good!

Will

October 27, 2005

I've made it a few times. Usually I place it into bread pans to cook but last

time I thought I'd do it on the cookie sheets to make a round loaf. Well, I had

bread that doubled in size like it should have but it sure was flat! Not nice

and round like I had shaped it.

The flavor was great though and well worth the work. I do wonder if I had my own

grain mill if that would have made a difference?

I have kinda made my own recipe though. Start in the evening.

I use a quart of starter, a cup and a half of warm water, 1 teaspoon of yeast, 1

tablespoon of salt, 1/4th cup butter, lard or olive oil, and enough whole wheat

flour to make a soft dough. Kneed and kneed, (I cheat with a kitchen aid mixer,

it goes a good 10 minutes or even longer). Place in a greased bowl, flip so the

top is coated and cover the bowl with a damp towel. Let it sit over night. In

the morning, shape into loafs, and place into well greased pans. Let it sit till

doubled, this may take all day.

Bake at 400 till it has a good hollow sound when thumped on the top. Also it

should feel lighter when you pick up the pan. You can brush the top with butter,

but remove from pans right away and cool on a rack. I often place a flour sack

towel over it while it cools. Don't know if it does anything but it does keep

pets and flies off.

Kimi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Check out Amber's site: www.Jremedies.com

" I do not ask that Thou should give me some high or noble task. Give me

little hands to fold in mine. Give me little children to point Thy way, over

the strange, sweet path that leads to You. Give me little voices to teach to

pray. Give me shining eyes Thy face to see. The only crown I ask to wear is

this, that I may teach my children. I do not ask that I may stand among the

wise, the worthy, or the great; I only ask that softly, hand in hand my

children and I may enter at the gate. "

-Anonymous

January 18, 2006

Speaking of making sourdough bread, the last two times I have made mine, the

loaves have been doughy and uncooked in the center. What am I doing wrong? I

hate to waste so much bread and ingredients. Any ideas or suggestions?

" I do not ask that Thou should give me some high or noble task. Give me

little hands to fold in mine. Give me little children to point Thy way, over

the strange, sweet path that leads to You. Give me little voices to teach to

pray. Give me shining eyes Thy face to see. The only crown I ask to wear is

this, that I may teach my children. I do not ask that I may stand among the

wise, the worthy, or the great; I only ask that softly, hand in hand my

children and I may enter at the gate. "

-Anonymous

sourdough bread

Hi

I successfully made three loaves of sourdough bread today, using the NT

recipe! I used my friend's kitchen aid to mix and knead the and then

popped the dough into reg loaf pans and baked them in the oven. Boy

would I ever love a kitchen aid

So happy that all my work with the starter ended with positive results.

h

January 18, 2006

Sounds like it's just not cooked long enough. If it's getting too crusty for

you, turn the

temp down and cook it longer. You should be able to " thump " the bread when

it's done.

Lynn

>

> Speaking of making sourdough bread, the last two times I have made mine, the

> loaves have been doughy and uncooked in the center. What am I doing wrong? I

> hate to waste so much bread and ingredients. Any ideas or suggestions?

January 18, 2006

Boy

would I ever love a kitchen aid

I am very thankful for my kitchen aid mixer. I use it daily. I got mine for my

birthday several years ago and love it. It is so easy to whip something up and

makes homemade baking easier. I have the grinder for it too and that gets used

often too.

Kimi

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.Jremedies.com

The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his

tongue.

-Anonymous

January 19, 2006

You can use an instant-read thermometer to check the

temperature. I think it should be around 200 to be

done, depending on the bread type.

--- <tastefullysarah@...> wrote:

> Speaking of making sourdough bread, the last two

> times I have made mine, the

> loaves have been doughy and uncooked in the center.

> What am I doing wrong? I

> hate to waste so much bread and ingredients. Any

> ideas or suggestions?

>

> " I do not ask that Thou should give me some high or

> noble task. Give me

> little hands to fold in mine. Give me little

> children to point Thy way, over

> the strange, sweet path that leads to You. Give me

> little voices to teach to

> pray. Give me shining eyes Thy face to see. The only

> crown I ask to wear is

> this, that I may teach my children. I do not ask

> that I may stand among the

> wise, the worthy, or the great; I only ask that

> softly, hand in hand my

> children and I may enter at the gate. "

> -Anonymous

>

> sourdough bread

>

> Hi

> I successfully made three loaves of sourdough bread

> today, using the NT

> recipe! I used my friend's kitchen aid to mix and

> knead the and then

> popped the dough into reg loaf pans and baked them

> in the oven. Boy

> would I ever love a kitchen aid

> So happy that all my work with the starter ended

> with positive results.

> h

>

January 19, 2006

Hi,

I agree that it sounds like your loaves were not baked long enough.

It is important to let them rise sufficiently and then to bake until

an instant-read thermometer inserted into it reads 190 degrees. My

whole wheat sourdough loaves bake at 375 for 45 minutes, and cook

perfectly each time. When I do a speciality loaf, I check doneness

with the thermometer.

Amberlyn

At 02:59 AM 1/19/2006, you wrote:

>Speaking of making sourdough bread, the last two times I have made mine, the

>loaves have been doughy and uncooked in the center. What am I doing wrong? I

>hate to waste so much bread and ingredients. Any ideas or suggestions?

>

May 24, 2006

Hey Bruce, long time.

Sorry, can't help you with the question. Just thought I'd say hi.

Dirk

On 5/24/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote:

>

> Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread

> effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing?

>

> Regards,

>

> Bruce Guilmette, PhD

>

> Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

>

> http://survivecancerfoundation.org

>

> Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each

> day

> has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

>

May 24, 2006

Bruce Guilmette PhD wrote:

>Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread

>effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing?

Does bugger all, if not nothing, to gliadin etc. The only safe way is to

leave out wheat, barley, rye, oats, in their various incarnations

(including spelt and kamut) and their derivatives (e.g. triticale)

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Darwin's rolling over in his coffin,

'cos the fittest are surviving much less often " - NOFX

May 24, 2006

Re: sourdough bread

Hey Bruce, long time.

Sorry, can't help you with the question. Just thought I'd say hi.

Dirk

On 5/24/06, Bruce Guilmette PhD <bruce@...> wrote:

>

> Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread

> effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing?

>

> Regards,

>

> Bruce Guilmette, PhD

>

> Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

>

> http://survivecancerfoundation.org

>

> Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each

> day

> has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

>

May 24, 2006

It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten

molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented grains

would.

sourdough bread

Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread

effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing?

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day

has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

May 24, 2006

There is a yeast (not just commercial bread yeast) that, if left to work for

a very long ferment - like a week or more - can cut the 33 amino acid

peptide that is gliadin into smaller pieces that don't seem to have all the

same effects on the celiac gut. However - by the time that all the gliadin

is broken up, so are all the effects of gluten - the fluffiness/stretch/rise

of the bread - so you end up with a brick - not delightful. So what is the

point? Are we, as a culture, so addicted to the stuff that we are willing

to jump through enormous hoops for a bad product just so we can eat wheat

that no longer has the characteristics of the original?

Not me.

Connie

Re: sourdough bread

It seems to me that the fermentation process would make gliadin/ gluten

molecules even more available to the intestinal tract than unfermented

grains would.

sourdough bread

Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread

effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing?

Regards,

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each

day

has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

May 24, 2006

Kind of the conclusion I came to, but thought I would ask just in case there

was something I was missing.

Thanks,

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

<http://survivecancerfoundation.org> http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day

has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Ross McKay

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:25 AM

nutrition

Subject: Re: sourdough bread

Bruce Guilmette PhD wrote:

>Need a little help. Looking for some information on how sourdough bread

>effects the gluten proteins. Does it nullify or do nothing?

Does bugger all, if not nothing, to gliadin etc. The only safe way is to

leave out wheat, barley, rye, oats, in their various incarnations

(including spelt and kamut) and their derivatives (e.g. triticale)

--

Ross McKay, Toronto, NSW Australia

" Darwin's rolling over in his coffin,

'cos the fittest are surviving much less often " - NOFX

May 24, 2006

I have been trying to talk one of my patients out of eating wheat products

for weeks and am not making headway. You would think late stage cancer

would be a good enough reason, but alas it is not. I thought I would see if

there was anything that could be done, but everything I had found (which was

not much) said that gluten is either there or not and if the chain is

broken, so are the benefits of having it there.

So, I do appreciate the answer, but as I was already pretty sure I had found

it before.

Again, thanks,

Bruce Guilmette, PhD

Survive Cancer Foundation, Inc.

http://survivecancerfoundation.org

Do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day

has enough trouble of its own. Matt 6:34 (NIV)

_____

From: nutrition

[mailto:nutrition ] On Behalf Of Connie Hampton

Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:36 AM

nutrition

Subject: RE: sourdough bread