Re: Subject: DPT designation

[Guest guest]

I work in an acute care hospital where we have a speech pathologist who

has his PhD. He always introduces himself as Dr. Doe. Unfortunately

patients, families and even some of the nursing staff think that he is a

physician. I am constantly getting callers who tell me " The doctor

said... " and they are referring to the speech pathologist. This is

especially difficult when he recommends outpatient speech therapy or a

modified barium swallow study. The patients can not understand why he

write the prescription for these or even for medication.

We had a recent occurrence where a nurse wrote in the chart " Speech MD

present.. " This led to an investigation by PI regarding what an " MD " had

or had not done. There was no MD present just the speech pathologist. I

can't tell you how much explaining was necessary.

And I also found out that his personal checks read " Dr. Doe " . I

don't know any MDs who do that.

_____

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[Guest guest]

,

I think we all need to use prudence and common sense...and not pretend to be

something that we are not, but not hide what we are. It's a dance of

accomplishment and humble pie...and how to combine each appropriately. The

bottom line is educating others on what we do and what we don't do...and again,

to not overstep our bounds, while remaining the best in what we are qualified

and well trained to do.

Amy Babb,MPT

Ft Myers, FL

DPT designation

I work in an acute care hospital where we have a speech pathologist who

has his PhD. He always introduces himself as Dr. Doe. Unfortunately

patients, families and even some of the nursing staff think that he is a

physician. I am constantly getting callers who tell me " The doctor

said... " and they are referring to the speech pathologist. This is

especially difficult when he recommends outpatient speech therapy or a

modified barium swallow study. The patients can not understand why he

write the prescription for these or even for medication.

We had a recent occurrence where a nurse wrote in the chart " Speech MD

present.. " This led to an investigation by PI regarding what an " MD " had

or had not done. There was no MD present just the speech pathologist. I

can't tell you how much explaining was necessary.

And I also found out that his personal checks read " Dr. Doe " . I

don't know any MDs who do that.

_____

This message contains confidential information and is intended only for

the individual named, access to it by anyone else is unauthorized. If

you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute,

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immediately contact the sender as well as notify the sender immediately

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[Guest guest]

We (DPT/Phd OT/ST) are not medical doctors, calling oneself a doctor in

a medical arena is only self serving, and at best, confusing to the

public which we serve.

Ron Barbato PT

Corporate Director, Rehabilitation Services

Ephraim McDowell Health

Voice:

Fax:

rbarbato@...

DPT designation

I work in an acute care hospital where we have a speech pathologist who

has his PhD. He always introduces himself as Dr. Doe. Unfortunately

patients, families and even some of the nursing staff think that he is a

physician. I am constantly getting callers who tell me " The doctor

said... " and they are referring to the speech pathologist. This is

especially difficult when he recommends outpatient speech therapy or a

modified barium swallow study. The patients can not understand why he

write the prescription for these or even for medication.

We had a recent occurrence where a nurse wrote in the chart " Speech MD

present.. " This led to an investigation by PI regarding what an " MD " had

or had not done. There was no MD present just the speech pathologist. I

can't tell you how much explaining was necessary.

And I also found out that his personal checks read " Dr. Doe " . I

don't know any MDs who do that.

_____

This message contains confidential information and is intended only for

the individual named, access to it by anyone else is unauthorized. If

you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute,

disclose, copy or take any action in reliance of this e-mail. Please

immediately contact the sender as well as notify the sender immediately

by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this

e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be

secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted,

lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses (the

recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the presence

of viruses). The sender therefore does not accept liability for any

errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a

result of e-mail transmission. Our company accepts no liability for the

content of this e-mail, or for the consequences of any actions taken on

the basis of the information provided, unless that information is

subsequently confirmed in writing by an authorized individual. If

verification is required please request a hard-copy version.

If you have received this communication in error, please call (516)

632-4357. Thank You.

_____

Please identify yourself, your discipline and your location in all

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PTManager.

Sick of working for someone else?

Tired of fighting against POPTS?

Ready to quit the corporate nonsense of large organizations?

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PTManager encourages participation in your professional association.

Join APTA,

AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

Please identify yourself, your discipline and your location in all

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PTManager.

[Guest guest]

" I think we all need to use prudence and common sense...and not pretend to be

something that we are not, but not hide what we are. "

That's a great statement, and I agree, but there is always a tug and pull

between said common sense humility and promoting the profession, and not

everyone is going to agree where exactly that line should be drawn. There is

certainly a disconnect between non-DPT's with experience versus entry-level and

t-DPT' on this issue. It's funny though, it's usually the PT with years of

experience that preach humility with respect to the DPT, while at the same time

touting the value of experience --- which in my opinion, is the same thing as

touting a degree that really doesn't make any difference to the patient nor (at

least according to several articles), not as much difference in terms of

clinical outcomes as we'd like to think.

Experience versus the DPT . . .

Why should any of us accept that a patient should have to choose between the

two? Shouldn't we strive for both?

Dr. M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhDLake Norman Regional Medical Center

Vice Chairman - APTA North Carolina Piedmont District

" Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else. "

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[Guest guest]

Mr. Babato point well taken. I am concurrently pushing the ownership of the

profession. I feel as you do with us being able to perform the duties of a

doctoring profession. I feel we must begin to use Doctor when apropriate and at

the same time work on full autonomous practice. I have many friends who are

state reps and senators as well as knowing one are two congressmen. From their

lay perspective they can not understand when one has achieved the highest

degree and called Doctor how can another profession control the services. It is

a little easier to lobby that point when a great deal more therapist have

doctorate degrees. We can say how good we are and the skill level but sometimes

to the lay person ( congressmen) the doctor will help the cause.

Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPT

Terry Physical Therapy

1918 E. Parkway

Mission TX 78572

W

F

_www.terrypt.com_ (http://www.terrypt.com/)

[Guest guest]

At the risk of beating this dead horse back to life........

Anyone earning a DPT has the right to use the title (that argument is

settled.) That person also holds the responsibility to represent

themselves as a physical therapist - in a clear, and forthright manner

to the public however. Also, the use of the DPT does not in anyway

denigrate the BSPT, MSPT, or MPT, for that matter. Perhaps comments

to that effect in this forum are more of an indication of a defensive

response to the development of the DPT.

I say kudos to all the MSPTs, MPT, BSPT, and green card PTs whose

perseverance and leadership in the profession made it possible for a

" Dr. Jane Doe, Physical Therapist " - hopefully the trademark

appellation of our profession one day.

Joe Libera, PT, DPT, MBA, MPH (without apologies)

Elon, NC

[Guest guest]

If we think that MDs are the only doctors, then that's a problem! You

know what? A lot of MDs think of it that way, which should not really

be the case!They are not the only doctors in the medical field!

Furthermore, they are not superior to PTs! I never felt that way

before. I feel MDs and PTs are colleagues in the medical field. It

can be self-image to some, but MDs and DPTs are both doctors. I think

bottom line is self-image and personal preference...

PT to DPT, it should be a personal preference! Some PTs believe they

don't have to go through DPT to prove they are competent and I agree

with them. Being a DPT or not is not a gauge of competency, it's what

you think about yourself. Bottom line is, how you can help your

patients get better, period!

To be called a Dr. and not if you are a DPT, it's personal

preference!There are times it can be more beneficial, especially if

you are working in an outpatient facility and/or private practice.

Here again,it's personal preference. If you are not comfortable like

other MDs who would prefer to be called by their first name, fine.

If you are comfortable to be called a doctor, then great because

DPTs are doctors anyway. Right? They worked hard for it! If they

would like to called as such, it's their preference because they

are. If they don't like to be called doctors and they are DPTs,

fantastic! It's their own choice!

Confusing the public? No way! Public acceptance? It's how you carry

yourself at the right time at the right place... with honor, with

humility ... Here again, self image. In our growing physical therapy

profession, we have to continually educate our patients and the

public and that includes, PTs now becoming DPTs.

Bottom line .... it doesn't matter of you are a PT or DPT or you'd

like to be called a doctor or not, as long as you can help your

patients get better, that's it!

Dr. Paris once said, PT's will be known as the primary care physician

for musculoskeletal dysfunctions. I agree! A lot of us are convinced

that this is all part of the growing pains, but I am sure we'll all

get over it!

Gerry Catapang

Gerry Catapang, PT, DPT

President, Missouri Medical Private Practice Consultants

Springfield, Misssouri

>

> We (DPT/Phd OT/ST) are not medical doctors, calling oneself a

doctor in

> a medical arena is only self serving, and at best, confusing to the

> public which we serve.

>

>

> Ron Barbato PT

> Corporate Director, Rehabilitation Services

> Ephraim McDowell Health

> Voice:

> Fax:

> rbarbato@...

>

> DPT designation

>

>

>

> I work in an acute care hospital where we have a speech

pathologist who

> has his PhD. He always introduces himself as Dr. Doe.

Unfortunately

> patients, families and even some of the nursing staff think that

he is a

> physician. I am constantly getting callers who tell me " The doctor

> said... " and they are referring to the speech pathologist. This is

> especially difficult when he recommends outpatient speech therapy

or a

> modified barium swallow study. The patients can not understand why

he

> write the prescription for these or even for medication.

> We had a recent occurrence where a nurse wrote in the

chart " Speech MD

> present.. " This led to an investigation by PI regarding what

an " MD " had

> or had not done. There was no MD present just the speech

pathologist. I

> can't tell you how much explaining was necessary.

> And I also found out that his personal checks read " Dr. Doe " . I

> don't know any MDs who do that.

>

>

> _____

>

> This message contains confidential information and is intended

only for

> the individual named, access to it by anyone else is unauthorized.

If

> you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate,

distribute,

> disclose, copy or take any action in reliance of this e-mail.

Please

> immediately contact the sender as well as notify the sender

immediately

> by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete

this

> e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed

to be

> secure or error-free as information could be intercepted,

corrupted,

> lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses (the

> recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for the

presence

> of viruses). The sender therefore does not accept liability for any

> errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise

as a

> result of e-mail transmission. Our company accepts no liability

for the

> content of this e-mail, or for the consequences of any actions

taken on

> the basis of the information provided, unless that information is

> subsequently confirmed in writing by an authorized individual. If

> verification is required please request a hard-copy version.

>

> If you have received this communication in error, please call (516)

> 632-4357. Thank You.

>

> _____

>

>

>

>

>

> Please identify yourself, your discipline and your location in all

> messages to

> PTManager.

>

> Sick of working for someone else?

> Tired of fighting against POPTS?

> Ready to quit the corporate nonsense of large organizations?

> Visit www.InHomeRehab.com.

>

> PTManager encourages participation in your professional

association.

> Join APTA,

> AOTA or ASHA and participate now!

>

> Please identify yourself, your discipline and your location in all

> messages to

> PTManager.

>

[Guest guest]

Dr. Catapang I could not agree with you more in your statement. I have

looked for the proper words to explain but you were able to explain your point

very well. I feel that these are the growing pains that we are experiencing. In

15 years the physical therapist would have been happy with the steps that we

took today.

Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPT

Terry Physical Therapy

1918 E. Parkway

Mission TX 78572

W

F

_www.terrypt.com_ (http://www.terrypt.com/)

[Guest guest]

Mr. I would say that many of the times when I see Dr. preceding the

person's name and there initials at the end tend to be the doctors who have to

educate the public because many times patient's only know doctor as the MD.

Below are a list of professions that generally place Dr. in front of there

name as well as there type of doctorate behind there name in advertising and

on their office doors.

Dr. DO

Dr. DC

Dr. DPM

Dr. OD

Dr. DPT

Many times MD, PHD, DDS do not need to put doctor in front of the name

because the general public will know that they are doctors already. I find it is

more of an educational thing because has health care professionals we will know

what the many designations mean but many times not the common man or woman.

When the day comes that the public will know that a physical therapist is a

Doctor then we may not have to place that in the front of our names. This will

however depend on us and our association as to how we promote the field of

physical therapy.

Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPT

Terry Physical Therapy

1918 E. Parkway

Mission TX 78572

W

F

_www.terrypt.com_ (http://www.terrypt.com/)

[Guest guest]

I am sorry but I must comment on this. To use Dr.xxxx DO is a

grammatical error and poor English. If we want to educate the public

about our advanced education, then the appropriate way to do this would

be to write Dr. Osteopath, or DO etc. To use

poor English to " educate the public " sends a different message than what

is intended. If this is important enough to do then please do it

correctly.

s- PT, Cert MDT

Bronson Methodist Hospital

Rehabilitation Educator

sB@...

(269)544-3230 Ext. 218

(269)212-0990 Pager

(269)544-3238 fax

Confidential Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments,

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confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review; use,

disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended

recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all

copies of the original message. "

>>> ONUWA@... 7/6/2006 10:40 AM >>>

Mr. I would say that many of the times when I see Dr. preceding

the

person's name and there initials at the end tend to be the doctors who

have to

educate the public because many times patient's only know doctor as the

MD.

Below are a list of professions that generally place Dr. in front of

there

name as well as there type of doctorate behind there name in

advertising and

on their office doors.

Dr. DO

Dr. DC

Dr. DPM

Dr. OD

Dr. DPT

Many times MD, PHD, DDS do not need to put doctor in front of the name

because the general public will know that they are doctors already. I

find it is

more of an educational thing because has health care professionals we

will know

what the many designations mean but many times not the common man or

woman.

When the day comes that the public will know that a physical therapist

is a

Doctor then we may not have to place that in the front of our names.

This will

however depend on us and our association as to how we promote the

field of

physical therapy.

Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPT

Terry Physical Therapy

1918 E. Parkway

Mission TX 78572

W

F

_www.terrypt.com_ (http://www.terrypt.com/)

[Guest guest]

Actually, the DOs, DPMs, and ODs that I know DO NOT put Dr. in front of

their name. It's largely the chiropractors who do it, perhaps to bolster up

their status, but even the more professional chiropractors that I know

refrain from it as well. Personally, I'd like to see us differentiate

ourselves from the chiropractors and opt to delete the " double doctor " .

Furthermore, if we're counting on the doctor title to establish our

professionalism, we're in trouble. This situation is akin to the

politically correct (but dreadfully wrong) notion that if we bolster our

children's self esteem, everything will be OK with them. Bolstering self

esteem without improving the character, capabilities, and competencies that

build self esteem is a shallow and ultimately disappointing endeavor. When

we speak professionally, write professionally, and treat patients

professionally and effectively, we'll receive due professional respect not

because we're titled, but because we earned it. I'm all for the advancement

of our profession (including the acquisition of doctoral degrees) but it

goes way beyond just getting that doctoral title after (or before) your

name.

Mr. , Mr (looks silly, doesn't it), PT, other initials

temporarily deleted

Marquette, MI

DPT designation

> Mr. I would say that many of the times when I see Dr. preceding the

> person's name and there initials at the end tend to be the doctors who

> have to

> educate the public because many times patient's only know doctor as the

> MD.

> Below are a list of professions that generally place Dr. in front of

> there

> name as well as there type of doctorate behind there name in advertising

> and

> on their office doors.

>

> Dr. DO

> Dr. DC

> Dr. DPM

> Dr. OD

> Dr. DPT

>

> Many times MD, PHD, DDS do not need to put doctor in front of the name

> because the general public will know that they are doctors already. I find

> it is

> more of an educational thing because has health care professionals we will

> know

> what the many designations mean but many times not the common man or

> woman.

> When the day comes that the public will know that a physical therapist is

> a

> Doctor then we may not have to place that in the front of our names. This

> will

> however depend on us and our association as to how we promote the field

> of

> physical therapy.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPT

> Terry Physical Therapy

> 1918 E. Parkway

> Mission TX 78572

> W

> F

> _www.terrypt.com_ (http://www.terrypt.com/)

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been listening to the " doctor " or " no doctor " discussions for a

couple months now on this list serve. I've already given my two cents

worth. One key factor that we all need to consider is our written

communication, spelling, and grammar. I wince whenever I read an

e-mail from a DPT (or anyone else, for that matter) that is riddled

with misspellings and poor grammar. I know, I know, it's just e-mail

so it shouldn't matter. I say that it does matter. Professionals and

patients judge your competence by your verbal and written

communication. As it applies to this subject, it is even more

important for the DPT to portray an image of competence. I don't

write this to be harsh, but just something to be mindful of, DPT or

not. I really hope that I didn't misspell anything in this e-mail!

;-)

Thank you,

Curtis

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[Guest guest]

I continue to read so many comments about the DPT. It seems to me that some are

quite concerned as it states in 's comment " allows introduction of oneself

as a 'doctor'. " Is it more to our profession's benefit to further ourselves in

our profession, or is it more important in what people call us? I believe that

early in the 1990's the APTA recommended that a PT designate themselves with

their name followed by " PT " rather than all of the other credentials that some

have. Is this still the feeling of the APTA? I, for one, introduce myself as

" Matt Dvorak " when I meet a patient then say, " I am a/your Physical Therapist " .

, please do not take this as a direct attack on your comment, as I picked

it out to voice what I feel when I have read other responses over the past two

years on this topic. If the APTA, my state association, or the federal

government mandate that to be reimbursed, I am required to obtain further

education, then I guess I will do that. I am not compelled to do in order to

earn any more respect among my peers, students, patients, or anyone else. I

think I have earned that now with a BS and a BA, as a father, husband,

christian, coach, etc. Just my two cents.

Matt Dvorak, PT

Yankton, SD

________________________________

From: PTManager on behalf of Ball

Sent: Thu 7/6/2006 2:35 PM

To: PTManager

Subject: RE: Re: RE: Subject: DPT designation

On the subject of " double doctoring " (e.g. Dr. so and so, PT, DPT), I agree that

looks pretentious and/or a little professionally insecure . . . that said, it

has been quite common for emerging clinical doctoring professions (read

podiatrists, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors) to do so, as if to say

" Yeah, I'm a doctor, but not THAT kind of doctor. " Maybe someday, like DPM's,

DDS's, OD's, and DC's, the public will see DPT and think " Oh yes, that's a

clinical doctoring professional " but we're not there yet. Finally, Dr.

so-and-so, PT, DPT, both allows introduction of oneself as a " doctor " while at

the same time clearing marking oneself as a physical therapist . . . perfectly

in keeping with the APTA's most recent HOD resolution on the subject.

Dr. M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhDLake Norman Regional Medical Center

Vice Chairman - APTA North Carolina Piedmont District

" Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else. "

To: PTManager@... <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.comFrom> :

ONUWA@... <mailto:ONUWA%40aol.comDate> : Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:18:03

-0400Subject: Re: RE: Subject: DPT designation

Dr. Catapang I could not agree with you more in your statement. I have looked

for the proper words to explain but you were able to explain your point very

well. I feel that these are the growing pains that we are experiencing. In 15

years the physical therapist would have been happy with the steps that we took

today. Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPTTerry Physical Therapy1918 E.

ParkwayMission TX 78572W F _www.terrypt.com_

(http://www.terrypt.com/ <http://www.terrypt.com/> ) [Non-text portions of this

message have been removed]

__________________________________________________________

Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care

about in one place.

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[Guest guest]

Matt, you have said what many PT's on either side of this discussion have

felt for a long time. I believe it's time we move on with our discussions

to other topics. I have thoroughly enjoyed hearing all of the arguments as

well as commenting myself. However, there is such a thing as too much and I

believe we've reached it. To those who have gone back to school to get your

DPT, more power to you and I hope it helps in your relationships with

payors, referral sources, and patients. For those who choose to practice

with the degree they were given at graduation, the same goes for you. For

me personally, I will return to school if my company asks me to and offers

to assist with the cost. Otherwise, $10,000 a letter isn't worth it to me

when my reimbursement for those letters doesn't change. Another 2 cents

worth.

Mike McClain

City, TN

>

>Reply-To: PTManager

>To: <PTManager >

>Subject: RE: Re: RE: Subject: DPT designation

>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 13:45:17 -0500

>

>I continue to read so many comments about the DPT. It seems to me that

>some are quite concerned as it states in 's comment " allows

>introduction of oneself as a 'doctor'. " Is it more to our profession's

>benefit to further ourselves in our profession, or is it more important in

>what people call us? I believe that early in the 1990's the APTA

>recommended that a PT designate themselves with their name followed by " PT "

>rather than all of the other credentials that some have. Is this still the

>feeling of the APTA? I, for one, introduce myself as " Matt Dvorak " when I

>meet a patient then say, " I am a/your Physical Therapist " . , please

>do not take this as a direct attack on your comment, as I picked it out to

>voice what I feel when I have read other responses over the past two years

>on this topic. If the APTA, my state association, or the federal

>government mandate that to be reimbursed, I am required to obtain further

>education, then I guess I will do that. I am not compelled to do in order

>to earn any more respect among my peers, students, patients, or anyone

>else. I think I have earned that now with a BS and a BA, as a father,

>husband, christian, coach, etc. Just my two cents.

>Matt Dvorak, PT

>Yankton, SD

>

>________________________________

>

>From: PTManager on behalf of Ball

>Sent: Thu 7/6/2006 2:35 PM

>To: PTManager

>Subject: RE: Re: RE: Subject: DPT designation

>

>

>

>On the subject of " double doctoring " (e.g. Dr. so and so, PT, DPT), I agree

>that looks pretentious and/or a little professionally insecure . . . that

>said, it has been quite common for emerging clinical doctoring professions

>(read podiatrists, dentists, optometrists, chiropractors) to do so, as if

>to say " Yeah, I'm a doctor, but not THAT kind of doctor. " Maybe someday,

>like DPM's, DDS's, OD's, and DC's, the public will see DPT and think " Oh

>yes, that's a clinical doctoring professional " but we're not there yet.

>Finally, Dr. so-and-so, PT, DPT, both allows introduction of oneself as a

> " doctor " while at the same time clearing marking oneself as a physical

>therapist . . . perfectly in keeping with the APTA's most recent HOD

>resolution on the subject.

>Dr. M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhDLake Norman Regional Medical Center

>Vice Chairman - APTA North Carolina Piedmont District

> " Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else. "

>

>To: PTManager@... <mailto:PTManager%40yahoogroups.comFrom>

>: ONUWA@... <mailto:ONUWA%40aol.comDate> : Thu, 6 Jul 2006 10:18:03

>-0400Subject: Re: RE: Subject: DPT designation

>

>Dr. Catapang I could not agree with you more in your statement. I have

>looked for the proper words to explain but you were able to explain your

>point very well. I feel that these are the growing pains that we are

>experiencing. In 15 years the physical therapist would have been happy with

>the steps that we took today. Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPTTerry Physical

>Therapy1918 E. ParkwayMission TX 78572W F

>_www.terrypt.com_ (http://www.terrypt.com/

><http://www.terrypt.com/> ) [Non-text portions of this message have been

>removed]

>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Matt,

Thanks for that last post. I thought I would reply to you personally, and

give you something more to chew on.

I am chagrined by the this move to the DPT because I have not heard a single

substantive reason why it is necessary. Don't get me wrong, I've heard all

the arguments about furthering the profession (and the related issues of

earning more money and more respect). But where is the data showing that the

DPT is better for patients? The short answer is that that data does not

exist. Our profession has precious little in the way of outcome data, and

none at all indicating that patient outcomes would be improved by more

academic education. (And if it's not impolite to say so, it should be

pointed out that the profession of physical therapy has been touting itself

as optimally effective for years---long before even the thought of a DPT

degree flickered in the minds of our leaders.) The sad truth is that the

move to DPT is, by all evidence, all about us---selfish in the worst sense.

Patients, outcomes, costs... who cares when there's money and glory at

stake? You can see it in the journal articles, the listserve posts,

everywhere. Nobody is talking about the patients, and nobody notices that

nobody is talking about the patients. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying

that it's not possible that this could be a good thing for patients. I'm

just saying that we don't know. And if we don't know, why are we so eager to

spend money and other resources on it?

In your post you asked " Is it more to our profession's benefit to further

ourselves in our profession, or is it more important what people call us? "

Those are good questions, but I would like us all to step back for a moment

and ask another, more important question, " Is it important for our

patients? "

Dave

In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities; in the expert's there

are few. Shunryo Suzuki-Roshi

Dave Milano, PT, Director of Rehab Services

Laurel Health System

32-36 Central Ave.

Wellsboro, PA 16901

dmilano@...

DPT designation

Dr. Catapang I could not agree with you more in your statement. I have

looked for the proper words to explain but you were able to explain your

point very well. I feel that these are the growing pains that we are

experiencing. In 15 years the physical therapist would have been happy with

the steps that we took today. Dr. Onuwa Terry, PT, DPTTerry Physical

Therapy1918 E. ParkwayMission TX 78572W F

_www.terrypt.com_ ( http://www.terrypt.

<http://www.terrypt.com/> com/ < http://www.terrypt.

<http://www.terrypt.com/> com/> ) [Non-text portions of this message have

been removed]

__________________________________________________________

Try Live.com - your fast, personalized homepage with all the things you care

about in one place.

http://www.live. <http://www.live.com/getstarted> com/getstarted <

http://www.live. <http://www.live.com/getstarted> com/getstarted>

[Guest guest]

Matt,

First off, I'm not at all offended by your comments. The truth is, outside of

teaching a course I don't generally refer to myself as anything other than

" Drew. " The only time a patient ever calls me " Doctor " is after they've read my

business card. If that makes them comfortable (and it does some), than I'm fine

to let them call me " Doctor. " I'm also careful to explain that not all PT's

have doctorates, and it doesn't mean that I'm going to get them any better any

faster for having a doctorate . . . academic or clinical. Furthermore, I

continue that if they call me " Doctor, " I'm going to have to call them " Sir " or

" Ma'am " . . . which usually gets a laugh.

Your comments bring to light, however, why I personally went for a DPT after

completion of a PhD. As a PT in the clinic, trying to be a " bridge " between

clinical and academic worlds, three things occur to me:

1. Advice about " DPT arrogance " takes on a different tone when a novice DPT

hears the argument from a t-DPT with experience.

2. It's nearly impossible to judge the DPT without having gone through the

educational experience oneself.

3. Clinical instructors really need to understand the value of the above two

points. We're not going to BE the DPT's of vision 2020, but we are going to be

responsible for TRAINING them in the clinic. It's hard to do so fully without

having taken direct access focused coursework like differential medical

diagnostic screening, or radiographic imaging. Understanding the culture of the

new-grad DPT is also important.

For these reasons, I urge you to re-consider completion of your own DPT . . .

it's the experienced DPT's that need to steer the transition of the profession

toward a clinical doctoring profession. We have too few of them, and I for one

fear that the profession may loose it's way if left to the overwhelming influx

of " Doctoring insistent " new graduate DPT's who may have a few extra courses,

but are sorely lacking with respect to the wisdom of experience with respect not

only to patient care, but to clinical and civic professionalism.

By the way, you'll note that I've changed my signature to make it more

digestable to all . . .

M. Ball, PT, DPT, PhDDoctor of Physical TherapyCharlotte, NC

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