Re: coconut oil vs. neosporin in topical wound care

[Guest guest]

I don't know the complete answer to your question, but other really good

sources are iodine and also cayenne pepper for healing. Iodine will kill

most anything. Might not be a bad idea to mix the coconut oil with some

iodine and cayenne then slather over the wound. Cayenne does not burn in

open wounds and I even put it on my son's boo-boos when he was a toddler.

Heals wounds fast! Just don't put it around the mouth or on the bottom!!!

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of oliver t griswold

Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:00 PM

discussingnt; ; ntuk ;

pghwapf ; GA_WPF

Subject: coconut oil vs. neosporin in topical wound care

can anyone point me to a good write-up of coconut oil vs. neosporin (or

similar ointments)? i'm trying to make a rational case as to coconut oil's

efficacy as a topical wound infection fighting agent that is good for us. do

the neosporins tend to wipe out more good bacteria than the coconut oil? i'm

interested from the perspective of someone who is very well nourished in the

weston price sense.

thanks,

oliver...

[Guest guest]

good thought on the cayenne. i think i read recently that the tradition of

wasabi with sushi originated from it's anti-bacterial properties to catch

any wayward stuff in the fish.

i have some lugol's solution coming in tomorrow to test for iodine

deficiency 'n such and will also trial it on some scrapes 'n cuts as they

happen.

i'm still looking for some definitive info on the neosporin side of things.

is it harmful from a weston price perspective or no big deal? i gotta pick

my battles to win the war here <g> !

thanks much,

oliver...

On 10/4/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@...> wrote:

>

> I don't know the complete answer to your question, but other really good

> sources are iodine and also cayenne pepper for healing. Iodine will kill

> most anything. Might not be a bad idea to mix the coconut oil with some

> iodine and cayenne then slather over the wound. Cayenne does not burn in

> open wounds and I even put it on my son's boo-boos when he was a toddler.

> Heals wounds fast! Just don't put it around the mouth or on the bottom!!!

>

> Allyn

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know about the WAP think with Neosporin but if my health was a

concern I probably wouldn't care!!! LOL WAPF is not ALWAYS correct!

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of oliver t griswold

Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 12:33 PM

Subject: Re: coconut oil vs. neosporin in topical wound care

good thought on the cayenne. i think i read recently that the tradition of

wasabi with sushi originated from it's anti-bacterial properties to catch

any wayward stuff in the fish.

i have some lugol's solution coming in tomorrow to test for iodine

deficiency 'n such and will also trial it on some scrapes 'n cuts as they

happen.

i'm still looking for some definitive info on the neosporin side of things.

is it harmful from a weston price perspective or no big deal? i gotta pick

my battles to win the war here <g> !

thanks much,

oliver...

On 10/4/07, ALLYN FERRIS <aferris7272@ <mailto:aferris7272%40verizon.net>

verizon.net> wrote:

>

> I don't know the complete answer to your question, but other really good

> sources are iodine and also cayenne pepper for healing. Iodine will kill

> most anything. Might not be a bad idea to mix the coconut oil with some

> iodine and cayenne then slather over the wound. Cayenne does not burn in

> open wounds and I even put it on my son's boo-boos when he was a toddler.

> Heals wounds fast! Just don't put it around the mouth or on the bottom!!!

>

> Allyn

>

[Guest guest]

Oliver,

I don't know about WAPF's stance on it, but antibiotics can kill off bacteria

that aren't that strong. Then the stronger bacteria sometimes survive and

multiply, making the infection harder to cure. Of course, this isn't always the

case, but it is the problem with antibacterials and why they tell you not to use

antibacterial soap for regular hand-washing.

I have had a sore that I couldn't get rid of, perhaps it's staph infection,

and I put everything on it I could think of - salt, garlic, coconut oil,

enzymes, etc. (didn't try the cayenne, though, perhaps that's worth a try), even

antibacterial salve. Nothing worked. Then I read on the Kombucha list that

some people use it topically, so I put that on it (poured the liquid on a

bandage), and it softened it up overnight, infection matter came out and it is

now looking pretty good. You can buy kombucha at health food stores - it's

expensive at $4 a bottle, but what the heck, pharmaceuticals are more expensive.

---------------------------------

Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos.

[Guest guest]

hmmm, interesting. i wonder if kefir would behave similarly. my

understanding is that these " good " bacteria just overwhelm whatever else is

there and take over in a fortunately beneficial manner.

that kombucha must be mighty potent stuff as i thought you (greta garbo)

died some time ago <g> !

thanks,

oliver...

On 10/5/07, Greta Garbo <gretagarbo1935@...> wrote:

>

> Oliver,

>

> I don't know about WAPF's stance on it, but antibiotics can kill off

> bacteria that aren't that strong. Then the stronger bacteria sometimes

> survive and multiply, making the infection harder to cure. Of course, this

> isn't always the case, but it is the problem with antibacterials and why

> they tell you not to use antibacterial soap for regular hand-washing.

>

> I have had a sore that I couldn't get rid of, perhaps it's staph

> infection, and I put everything on it I could think of - salt, garlic,

> coconut oil, enzymes, etc. (didn't try the cayenne, though, perhaps that's

> worth a try), even antibacterial salve. Nothing worked. Then I read on the

> Kombucha list that some people use it topically, so I put that on it (poured

> the liquid on a bandage), and it softened it up overnight, infection matter

> came out and it is now looking pretty good. You can buy kombucha at health

> food stores - it's expensive at $4 a bottle, but what the heck,

> pharmaceuticals are more expensive.

>

[Guest guest]

>

> can anyone point me to a good write-up of coconut oil vs.

> neosporin (or similar ointments)? i'm trying to make a rational

> case as to coconut oil's efficacy as a topical wound infection

> fighting agent that is good for us.

My recollection is that it's not the coconut oil that has the

antibiotic properties, but rather it's the monolaurin that the body

creates from the coconut oil that has the antibiotic properties.

[Guest guest]

Oliver, , et al.,

I found this excerpt on a website which might be of interest (address copied

below).

Because of the potential for contamination of milk by antimicrobial

compositions used on cows teats, it is desired to use antimicrobial compositions

that are generally recognized as safe, GRAS, as determined by the U.S. Food and

Drug Administration in order to assure that any residues that may get into the

milk from such uses are not toxic. Examples of antimicrobial compositions that

are GRAS listed are both monoesters of edible fatty acids and polyhydric

alcohols such as monolaurin and short to medium chained saturated fatty acids

such as caprylic, capric, and lauric acids. In particular, the glycerol

monoester of lauric acid (glycerol monolaurate or monolaurin) in combination

with a chelating agent such as lactic acid is reported to be an effective

antimicrobial system.

For example, U.S. Pat. No. 5,219,887 discloses the use of monolaurin with lactic

acid as an antifungal, antibacterial system in a medicated shampoo. U.S. Pat.

No. 5,208,257 discloses combinations of monolaurin, caprylic and capric acids

with lactic acid as an effective antimicrobial system. U.S. Pat. No. 5,364,650

discloses the use of caprylic acid, capric acid, and a chelating agent without

any monoester being present as a germicidal system useful for disinfecting

animal carcasses to be used for human consumption. The concentrations of

caprylic acid and capric acid in this system are kept very low (50-1500 ppm) so

that they are soluble in water without the aid of other solvents or solubilizing

surfactants. Kabara, J., Cosmetic and Drug Preservation, pp. 275-356, 1984,

reports the use of monoglycerides, chelating agents, and medium chain fatty

acids and combinations of these chemicals used as antimicrobial compositions,

generally as preservatives.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:iDVL0WjsgdMJ:www.patentstorm.us/patents/556\

9461-description.html+monolaurin+topical & hl=en & ct=clnk & cd=3 & gl=us

le (aka Greta Garbo - not dead (coconut oil has preserved me), just

hiding since " I want to be alooooone "

---------------------------------

Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,

photos & more.

[Guest guest]

Antibacterial soaps also have triclosan (sp) which kills brain

neurotransmitters which once dead do not come back unlike our other cells.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Greta Garbo

Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 4:20 PM

Subject: Re: coconut oil vs. neosporin in topical wound care

Oliver,

I don't know about WAPF's stance on it, but antibiotics can kill off

bacteria that aren't that strong. Then the stronger bacteria sometimes

survive and multiply, making the infection harder to cure. Of course, this

isn't always the case, but it is the problem with antibacterials and why

they tell you not to use antibacterial soap for regular hand-washing.

I have had a sore that I couldn't get rid of, perhaps it's staph infection,

and I put everything on it I could think of - salt, garlic, coconut oil,

enzymes, etc. (didn't try the cayenne, though, perhaps that's worth a try),

even antibacterial salve. Nothing worked. Then I read on the Kombucha list

that some people use it topically, so I put that on it (poured the liquid on

a bandage), and it softened it up overnight, infection matter came out and

it is now looking pretty good. You can buy kombucha at health food stores -

it's expensive at $4 a bottle, but what the heck, pharmaceuticals are more

expensive.

---------------------------------

Don't let your dream ride pass you by. Make it a reality with Autos.

[Guest guest]

Coconut oil seems to be readily absorbed by the skin--I love it as a

moisturizer--but I'm a little curious how it could work well on an

open wound, since blood is aqueous and oil will not mix with it.

Between peroxide, iodine, and other sure-fire natural disinfectants,

we're pretty well covered so I'm not inclined to bother with CO. Are

there any sources that describe the successful use of CO as a topical

antimicrobial for wounds?

Just being skeptical, as usual

Tom

[Guest guest]

Allyn-

Any source for that triclosan info? I don't use it, of course, but would

love ammuntion to stop my extended family from using it.

Desh

[Guest guest]

--- Tom Jeanne, <tjeanne@...> wrote:

> Coconut oil seems to be readily absorbed by the skin--I love it as a

> moisturizer--but I'm a little curious how it could work well on an

> open wound, since blood is aqueous and oil will not mix with it.

> Between peroxide, iodine, and other sure-fire natural disinfectants,

> we're pretty well covered so I'm not inclined to bother with CO. Are

> there any sources that describe the successful use of CO as a topical

> antimicrobial for wounds?

Tom,

If coconut oil is absorbed into the skin adjacent to the wound, then

maybe it helps to reduce any spread of infection in the wound area.

[Guest guest]

good point tom; i hadn't considered this angle. i can say that it seems to

work very well on my random scrapes 'n cuts 'n such. can't say that i've

tried it on a " wet " wound although i have saturated the gauze pad of a

bandaid with it prior to application.

as i poke 'round this issue i become increasingly intrigued with honey.

seems that this stuff is pretty darn good at helping us both internally and

externally.

any glaring inaccuracies in this:

http://www.doctorgrotte.com/honey-medicine.shtml ?

oliver...

On 10/9/07, Tom Jeanne <tjeanne@...> wrote:

>

> Coconut oil seems to be readily absorbed by the skin--I love it as a

> moisturizer--but I'm a little curious how it could work well on an

> open wound, since blood is aqueous and oil will not mix with it.

> Between peroxide, iodine, and other sure-fire natural disinfectants,

> we're pretty well covered so I'm not inclined to bother with CO. Are

> there any sources that describe the successful use of CO as a topical

> antimicrobial for wounds?

>

> Just being skeptical, as usual

>

> Tom

>

[Guest guest]

this link http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/10-04/triclosan-article.htm has

some info on triclosan:

According to EPA, triclosan " could be " and is " suspected to be " contaminated

with dioxins. Dioxins can be found in triclosan as impurities formed during

the manufacturing process. Researchers who added triclosan to river water

and exposed it to ultraviolet light found that a significant portion of the

triclosan was converted to dioxins, raising fears that sunlight could

transform triclosan to dioxins naturally.

A new study by researchers at Virginia Polytechnic Institute finds that

triclosan reacts with chlorine molecules in tap water to form chlorinated

dioxins, which are highly toxic forms of dioxin.

would love to some more solid info on this.

oliver...

On 10/9/07, De Bell-Frantz <deshabell@...> wrote:

>

> Allyn-

>

> Any source for that triclosan info? I don't use it, of course, but would

> love ammuntion to stop my extended family from using it.

>

> Desh

>

[Guest guest]

And scuttlebutt from a recent conference with a bunch of

environmental (water quality) biologists is that 80% of the sampled

waters, including drinking water sources, in at least the US (I heard

this second hand) is contaminated with plasticizers (think -

bisphenol A) and flame retardants (think - PDBEs which are, I think,

a form of dioxin). And both of those chemical groups act as

endocrine disruptors. No big surprise that folks are having issues

with glands of various types.

That said, I also flipped past an abstract yesterday in pubmed in

which lactating Japanese mamas with confirmed dioxin loads were able

to supplement with chlorella and substantially reduce (if not

eliminate - details are fuzzy and i never did get to the full paper)

the amount of dioxin in their breastmilk.

-jennifer

On Oct 9, 2007, at 3:54 PM, oliver t griswold wrote:

> this link http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/10-04/triclosan-

> article.htm has

> some info on triclosan:

>

> According to EPA, triclosan " could be " and is " suspected to be "

> contaminated

> with dioxins. Dioxins can be found in triclosan as impurities

> formed during

> the manufacturing process. Researchers who added triclosan to river

> water

> and exposed it to ultraviolet light found that a significant

> portion of the

> triclosan was converted to dioxins, raising fears that sunlight could

> transform triclosan to dioxins naturally.

>

>

> A new study by researchers at Virginia Polytechnic Institute finds

> that

> triclosan reacts with chlorine molecules in tap water to form

> chlorinated

> dioxins, which are highly toxic forms of dioxin.

>

>

> would love to some more solid info on this.

>

> oliver...

>

>

> On 10/9/07, De Bell-Frantz <deshabell@...> wrote:

>>

>> Allyn-

>>

>> Any source for that triclosan info? I don't use it, of course, but

>> would

>> love ammuntion to stop my extended family from using it.

>>

>> Desh

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I read it a long time ago and sometimes wish I saved all this

information but then I would have to have a warehouse to keep it all. LOL

I did do a google search and found several places where it talks about it

killing human cells. There were also several very technical pages going

into it but I don't have the time to read them all. So you might want to do

a google search.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of De Bell-Frantz

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 10:59 AM

Subject: Re: coconut oil vs. neosporin in topical wound care

Allyn-

Any source for that triclosan info? I don't use it, of course, but would

love ammuntion to stop my extended family from using it.

Desh

[Guest guest]

In my google searach I found several articles mention this dioxin thing with

triclosan.

Allyn

_____

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of Steinbachs

Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 4:06 PM

Subject: Re: Re: coconut oil vs. neosporin in topical wound care

And scuttlebutt from a recent conference with a bunch of

environmental (water quality) biologists is that 80% of the sampled

waters, including drinking water sources, in at least the US (I heard

this second hand) is contaminated with plasticizers (think -

bisphenol A) and flame retardants (think - PDBEs which are, I think,

a form of dioxin). And both of those chemical groups act as

endocrine disruptors. No big surprise that folks are having issues

with glands of various types.

That said, I also flipped past an abstract yesterday in pubmed in

which lactating Japanese mamas with confirmed dioxin loads were able

to supplement with chlorella and substantially reduce (if not

eliminate - details are fuzzy and i never did get to the full paper)

the amount of dioxin in their breastmilk.

-jennifer

On Oct 9, 2007, at 3:54 PM, oliver t griswold wrote:

> this link http://www.grinning

<http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/10-04/triclosan->

planet.com/2005/10-04/triclosan-

> article.htm has

> some info on triclosan:

>

> According to EPA, triclosan " could be " and is " suspected to be "

> contaminated

> with dioxins. Dioxins can be found in triclosan as impurities

> formed during

> the manufacturing process. Researchers who added triclosan to river

> water

> and exposed it to ultraviolet light found that a significant

> portion of the

> triclosan was converted to dioxins, raising fears that sunlight could

> transform triclosan to dioxins naturally.

>

>

> A new study by researchers at Virginia Polytechnic Institute finds

> that

> triclosan reacts with chlorine molecules in tap water to form

> chlorinated

> dioxins, which are highly toxic forms of dioxin.

>

>

> would love to some more solid info on this.

>

> oliver...

>

>

> On 10/9/07, De Bell-Frantz <deshabelljuno (DOT) <mailto:deshabell%40juno.com>

com> wrote:

>>

>> Allyn-

>>

>> Any source for that triclosan info? I don't use it, of course, but

>> would

>> love ammuntion to stop my extended family from using it.

>>

>> Desh

>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

> If coconut oil is absorbed into the skin adjacent to the wound, then

> maybe it helps to reduce any spread of infection in the wound area.

That makes sense, but it wouldn't prevent infectious agents from

getting into the blood at the wound site, and once it's in the blood

it's more of a problem.

Tom

[Guest guest]

--- wrote:

> > If coconut oil is absorbed into the skin adjacent to the wound, then

> > maybe it helps to reduce any spread of infection in the wound area.

>

--- Tom Jeanne, <tjeanne@...> wrote:

> That makes sense, but it wouldn't prevent infectious agents from

> getting into the blood at the wound site, and once it's in the blood

> it's more of a problem.

Tom,

So maybe the coconut oil should be applied after the wound has scabbed

over to help speed healing. This source also suggests garlic, oregano

oil, and tea tree oil:

http://healthforu.info/heal/Wound-Healing.php

[Guest guest]

--- Tom Jeanne <tjeanne@...> wrote:

> Between peroxide, iodine, and other sure-fire natural disinfectants,

> we're pretty well covered so I'm not inclined to bother with CO.

Tom,

I ran across this review of iodine for wound healing:

" Antiseptics on Wounds: An Area of Controversy "

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/456300_2

=====================================================

Summarizing the review of numerous in-vivo studies of iodine compounds

the authors can conclude that in humans PVP-I and cadexomer iodine do

not have a negative influence on wound healing, while cadexomer iodine

causes an acceleration of healing in chronic human wounds. Both can be

effective in reducing bacteria number and decreasing infections.

Results from animal studies depend on many variables and should be

interpreted with cautiousness. Studies of PVP-I have more conflicting

results, especially with animal models, and have caused concern on

many clinicians. Nevertheless, the results from the studies evaluating

cadexomer iodine are clear and leave no doubt that this newer iodine

compound is effective without having any negative influence on wound

healing rate. Inversely, an acceleration of wound healing has been

observed.

=====================================================

[Guest guest]

,

Wow, thanks a lot! I need to read more about cadexomer iodine, and

perhaps stock my medicine cabinet with some...

By the way, I've been extremely busy but I will post my photos from my

Dominican Republic trip soon.

Tom